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Patrick Hardy
02-06-2009, 05:04 PM
Here is part of the Waterski Magazine email I just received about test driving the new 2009 models. Under the MC test drive these are the models listed. I know all about supply and demand, blah, blah, blah. But I just want to cry every time there is never a mention of My beloved Prostar 190. Is there any other boat company in the world that has completely given up on their once flagship model ? Is this not the boat that started MC's dominance? Oh well, I guess I am just showing my age and need to stop ranting.

2009 MasterCraft Boats

MasterCraft Mission Statement


Deliver the ultimate water sports experience with the world's highest quality, best performing sports luxury boats in every significant inboard niche.


MasterCraft Virtual Test Drives

MasterCraft ProStar 197

MasterCraft CSX 220


MasterCraft CSX 265


MasterCraft MariStar 200


MasterCraft MariStar 235


MasterCraft MariStar 255


MasterCraft X-1


MasterCraft X-2


MasterCraft X-14


MasterCraft X-15


MasterCraft X-35


MasterCraft X-45


MasterCraft X-55


MasterCraft X-80


MasterCraft X-Star

No Skeez
02-06-2009, 05:10 PM
It will drive identical to the 197, and the 197 will appeal to a wider range of people. Why spend the extra money transporting a boat that is SO similar to one that is already going to be there? Just trimming the fat so to speak. My two cents...

Ski-me
02-06-2009, 05:29 PM
Why is there a CC 196 in the test then?? :confused:

No Skeez
02-06-2009, 05:40 PM
Jeff - not sure what you mean by your question? Since the MC 190 hull is the same as the 197, the boats perform and handle identically. The only difference is the open bow top sheet. Since the 197 is already going to the test (Again, MUCH more appealing than the 190) why spend the extra money shipping an IDENTICAL boat?

The CC 196 is it's own unique hull. The 206 is a completely different boat.

CC does not give their 'tournament' level skiers an open bow option, whereas MC does, and in turn, sells more of the open bow style 'tournament level' boats.

Does that make sense?

east tx skier
02-06-2009, 05:52 PM
I'd love to ski a 190 and 197 back to back. I realize the hulls are the same, but I'd be surprised if the weight distribution was the same given the up front seating. ICBW.

corey
02-06-2009, 06:02 PM
The thing about waterski mag is it is a pay to play sort of gig, which limits the number of boats that get "tested". I agree a ski boat, like the 190, should be in waterski mag though. Perhaps they could spend a little less time being so PC and leave the wakeboard boats to the wake mags.

Ski-me
02-06-2009, 06:04 PM
I'd love to ski a 190 and 197 back to back. I realize the hulls are the same, but I'd be surprised if the weight distribution was the same given the up front seating. ICBW.

This was the idea I was asking.....

Basically, the CC 196 is the comparable model to the MC 190.

If CC brought their 196, 205 and 216 to the test.....my question was why only the MC 197 and 214? I am not experience enough to know if the 190 and 197 compare with one another or are considered "identical" hulls, but the 197 is longer than the 190 (I'm guessing) and with the open front, there must be a slight variation in weight and wake.

Just curious.

Also, why test 46(?) boats in a "waterski" magazine and only have 6 or 8 true DD ski boats? The rest were wakeboarding boats.:rolleyes:

JohnE
02-06-2009, 06:15 PM
Waterski magazine may as well just be another sales brochure. When have you read any poignant thoughts about a boat in there? They aren't going to say one negative comment about the companies that pay them advertising money.

corey
02-06-2009, 06:16 PM
The 190 and 197 are the same length and are the same hull from the rub rail down. The deck is different which allows one to be an open bow and one a closed. MC does a poor job marketing this, but its been that way since the inception of the 197.

From a dealer standpoint the 197 has eroded the 190 sales. We used to sell about 40 closed bows a year and now sell <1. The issue is not so much that the 190 is not an awesome ski boat, its more of a resale consideration. Most of our 190 customers know that when they do sell their boat, be it 5, 10 or 15 years down the road the open bows will have a better resale.

No Skeez
02-06-2009, 06:36 PM
Basically, the CC 196 is the comparable model to the MC 190.

If CC brought their 196, 205 and 216 to the test.....my question was why only the MC 197 and 214? I am not experience enough to know if the 190 and 197 compare with one another or are considered "identical" hulls, but the 197 is longer than the 190 (I'm guessing) and with the open front, there must be a slight variation in weight and wake.

In my opinion, the CC 196 is comparable to both our 190 and 197, as, as Corey mentioned in more clarity than I did only a bit above his post, these boats are IDENTICAL from the rub rail down. No, the 190 is not 19' and the 197 19'7". In all reality, both boats are 19' 8". Weird, I know. Even with the 197 having the open bow, the weight distribution is only minimally affected, at best. Eastie, I think that would be a pretty cool test that you brought up above. If you ever make it to Wisconsin let me know, I'll make it happen.

Most pros, ie Karen, Marcus Brown, etc.. take a 197 over a 190. As Corey said, the 190 market share has been DOMINATED by the 197. We bring one 190 in every year, and it is for our local show ski team, ALONG WITH a 197.

sethro
02-06-2009, 06:49 PM
I'd love to ski a 190 and 197 back to back. I realize the hulls are the same, but I'd be surprised if the weight distribution was the same given the up front seating. ICBW.

Something I've always wondered myself. At first glance one could think, there is extra fiberglass for the closed bow 190 deck and no walkthrough. But then the consideration of seat bases for up front seating comes into play for the open bow. My guess is not much difference, but it would be cool to see if there is a quantative difference.

JohnE
02-06-2009, 07:10 PM
I'm betting the difference between the 190 and 197 is minimal at best and only noticable at 15 or 22 off if at all. At shortline there isn't a difference which is why the 197's pull the tourney's.

Jim@BAWS
02-06-2009, 07:56 PM
Why is there a CC 196 in the test then?? :confused:


Because CC wanted that boat entered

Jim@BAWS

Jim@BAWS
02-06-2009, 08:00 PM
I'm betting the difference between the 190 and 197 is minimal at best and only noticable at 15 or 22 off if at all. At shortline there isn't a difference which is why the 197's pull the tourney's.

No DIFFERENCE

If you notice a difference...well then you are way above anyone else on this site

GUYS...THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. You keep wanting to beat a dead horse

197 do not pull all tourneys. Some TT members do have 190's why....because they are the
same.


Jim@BAWS

JohnE
02-06-2009, 08:05 PM
No DIFFERENCE

If you notice a difference...well then you are way above anyone else on this site

GUYS...THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. You keep wanting to beat a dead horse

197 do not pull all tourneys. Some TT members do have 190's why....because they are the
same.


Jim@BAWS

Jim, 300 lbs wouldn't make a difference? That is the difference in weight between the 2 boats iirc.

There may be no difference. If there is, it's not going to change my passes, agreed.

03 35th Anniversary
02-06-2009, 08:29 PM
Jim, 300 lbs wouldn't make a difference? That is the difference in weight between the 2 boats iirc.

There may be no difference. If there is, it's not going to change my passes, agreed.

The 190 weighs 160lbs. less than the 197.

Boats are the same from the rub rail down and the windshield back.

MasterCraft did that so the only difference in the 2 was the top cap. This kept the 190 from having to have it's own set of molds (other than the top cap). This way MC could keep it in the lineup. If they wouldn't have done this the 190 would have stopped production back in 2001.

Thats pretty much the jist of it. Any dealer with better details feel free to correct me.

JohnE
02-06-2009, 08:42 PM
The 190 weighs 160lbs. less than the 197.

Boats are the same from the rub rail down and the windshield back.

MasterCraft did that so the only difference in the 2 was the top cap. This kept the 190 from having to have it's own set of molds (other than the top cap). This way MC could keep it in the lineup. If they wouldn't have done this the 190 would have stopped production back in 2001.

Thats pretty much the jist of it. Any dealer with better details feel free to correct me.

Got it. Maybe the 300 lbs in my head was for an X7 vs. 190. Or maybe it was the Stoli clouding the noggin.......

Anyhow, I never said I'd ski any better behind one vs. the other.....

03 35th Anniversary
02-06-2009, 08:53 PM
Got it. Maybe the 300 lbs in my head was for an X7 vs. 190. Or maybe it was the Stoli clouding the noggin.......

Anyhow, I never said I'd ski any better behind one vs. the other.....




I can't tell a difference either, I just wanted to take a few whacks at the dead horse!!!

east tx skier
02-06-2009, 09:04 PM
The 190 and 197 are the same length and are the same hull from the rub rail down. The deck is different which allows one to be an open bow and one a closed. MC does a poor job marketing this, but its been that way since the inception of the 197.

From a dealer standpoint the 197 has eroded the 190 sales. We used to sell about 40 closed bows a year and now sell <1. The issue is not so much that the 190 is not an awesome ski boat, its more of a resale consideration. Most of our 190 customers know that when they do sell their boat, be it 5, 10 or 15 years down the road the open bows will have a better resale.

I know that's the mentality of the TT drivers. They go 197 with tower and all the trimmings more often than not so they can flip it easier. When I was shopping for a closed bow boat (used) with specific requirements, this became a fairly large road block. IIRC, MC made 6 190s in 2006. Not sure how that number has changed in the last two years.

east tx skier
02-06-2009, 09:11 PM
Something I've always wondered myself. At first glance one could think, there is extra fiberglass for the closed bow 190 deck and no walkthrough. But then the consideration of seat bases for up front seating comes into play for the open bow. My guess is not much difference, but it would be cool to see if there is a quantative difference.

My guess is more weight in the front for the 197, seat bases, cushions, foam, vinyl, speaker magnets, cooler and step, etc. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. A year or so ago, there was a lot of talk about putting extra weight in the front of boats to soften the wake a touch. At any rate, I always found, in the older boats, that the wake became hard as a rock when anyone was in the bow. Plus, I didn't want the kids up there for safety reasons as well as for driver visibility concerns. I do not miss bow seating. Just a personal thing.

east tx skier
02-06-2009, 09:13 PM
I'm betting the difference between the 190 and 197 is minimal at best and only noticable at 15 or 22 off if at all. At shortline there isn't a difference which is why the 197's pull the tourney's.

I.e., where 85% of us ski. I think the reason that there are 197s at tournaments is because those are the ones the TT guys think they can sell the quickest at season's end. Don't get me wrong, they ski great, too. That would trump resale surely.

east tx skier
02-06-2009, 09:14 PM
No DIFFERENCE

If you notice a difference...well then you are way above anyone else on this site

GUYS...THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. You keep wanting to beat a dead horse

197 do not pull all tourneys. Some TT members do have 190's why....because they are the
same.


Jim@BAWS

I'm going to keep talking about it. :)

JohnE
02-06-2009, 09:19 PM
IIRC, MC made 6 190s in 2006. Not sure how that number has changed in the last two years.

I'll bet that that rarity caused the numbers to actually go up in the years after. Since a newer 190 is so much rarer than an anniversary edition these days.

east tx skier
02-06-2009, 09:19 PM
Got it. Maybe the 300 lbs in my head was for an X7 vs. 190. Or maybe it was the Stoli clouding the noggin.......

Anyhow, I never said I'd ski any better behind one vs. the other.....

They purportedly shaved 200 lbs off of it around 2007 or so.

JohnE
02-06-2009, 09:22 PM
They purportedly shaved 200 lbs off of it around 2007 or so.

I don't really know where I got that number from. Might have been the '05 brochure from my 197 or could have been any thereafter. Or again I might have pulled it out of my arse.

scott023
02-07-2009, 09:14 AM
In response to the original post... it looks like they have virtual test drives for 15 MC models... on the MC website they have over 30 models listed (including SS). I would assume that MC is going to push the models that have the best sales potential. If, as previously stated, they are only making a handful of 190's a year, it makes sense to me that there would not be a priority to pushing that boat in front of the consumers. In my area there is next to nothing for interest in closed bow boats, as a matter of fact there are three of them that have been for sale since the beginning of summer. I would also assume that a lot of first time boat buyers are similar to me, they are going to be interested in boats that they have seen on their way to the water. When I went to the MC website and my dealer, the first two boats I looked at were the Star and the X15, as those are the two most common MC in my area.

maxpower220
02-10-2009, 09:33 PM
30 different MC models does not constitute 30 different hulls.

scott023
02-11-2009, 09:09 AM
30 different MC models does not constitute 30 different hulls.

Pretty sure I didn't say there were 30 different hulls... I am pretty sure that is common knowledge. My point was there is little chance that they are going to have tests on all 30 models when they do have similar hulls and they would push the models that are the most popular. Not sure where you were going with this...