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macattack
01-30-2009, 07:53 AM
http://perfectpass.com/perfect_pass_whats_new.html

Jan 27, 2009: PerfectPass statement on Star Gazer for 2009 tournament season.

Over the last few months there has been significant discussion around the topic of PerfectPass releasing a Star Gazer upgrade that would mimic the pull of ZO. In fact, PerfectPass tested several versions of this experimental software.

At present, this project is on hold as ZO has released nine (9) new versions which are currently being evaluated. According to the company’s website, these new versions will optimize the pull for a broader range of skiers. This X Version experimental software offers a number of different engine response parameters.

According to a number of skiers, they were able to select a setting that felt softer and more “like PerfectPass”...and that the transition between systems is much easier. Testing and skier feedback should be more definitive as spring draws closer.

While we are fully aware that no two speed controls or different brands of boats will ever ski the same, we are encouraged that the gap between speed control brands appears to be shrinking for the benefit of the sport.

PerfectPass will be re-evaluating this project in a few months. In the meantime, Star Gazer Version 7.0 (62) has a number of improvements over last year. They are:

1. No need to disengage in the turns making driving easier.
2. To ensure skiers of all sizes receive an optimal pull, there is a setting for very light skiers and light pullers known as “F” as well as the letter “X” for heavy pullers over 200 pounds.
3. On mechanical systems, the servo rollback has been reduced by 50% for a crisper throttle feel and quicker engagement.
4. Calibration can easily be done in open water, without a course.
5. Software Upgrades will be available soon by simply ordering a plug in “Software Update Device” from PerfectPass. Cost of this device will be $75.

With regards to Promotional Boats for 2009 and the status of approved software. In the United States, PerfectPass Star Gazer and Classic are both fully approved for R Class Events throughout the 2009 tournament season.

C36
01-30-2009, 01:13 PM
Good to know - thanks for posting.

Sodar
01-30-2009, 01:25 PM
Great Info!

Hopefully they will get the update out before the season heats up!

Calibration in open water would be an awesome improvement!

brucemac
01-30-2009, 02:30 PM
so does this only apply to the stargazer, or does it apply to wake edition as well?

i'm curious about this
3. On mechanical systems, the servo rollback has been reduced by 50% for a crisper throttle feel and quicker engagement.

sand2snow22
01-30-2009, 02:33 PM
so does this only apply to the stargazer, or does it apply to wake edition as well?



Good question, I think I'm going to install the wakeboard pro in the next few days......Eastie, you out there? Any words of wisdom? I know you know your stargazer.....

east tx skier
01-30-2009, 04:40 PM
I have no idea if the update applies to wake edition. Seems like a few of those improvements, i.e., open water and not needing disengage in the turn (current version slams on the gas because the gps thinks you've basically stopped) would be helpful in a WB setting. I could see myself being interested in this upgrade. An adjustment for river current would be nice, too.

Sodar
01-30-2009, 04:45 PM
I have no idea if the update applies to wake edition. Seems like a few of those improvements, i.e., open water and not needing disengage in the turn (current version slams on the gas because the gps thinks you've basically stopped) would be helpful in a WB setting. I could see myself being interested in this upgrade. An adjustment for river current would be nice, too.

The last time I talked to them, they said that future versions will be taking input from a paddle wheel to correct speeds for currents. :confused:

flipper
01-30-2009, 04:56 PM
Thanks for the info....interesting

east tx skier
01-30-2009, 05:38 PM
The last time I talked to them, they said that future versions will be taking input from a paddle wheel to correct speeds for currents. :confused:

Glad I have a paddle wheel. Kind of strange that they'd go that route since the latest version of SG doesn't require a paddle wheel.

Sodar
01-30-2009, 05:40 PM
Glad I have a paddle wheel. Kind of strange that they'd go that route since the latest version of SG doesn't require a paddle wheel.

Exactly. They said that the new cable will basically be a Y-cable... 1 for the GPS antenna and one for the paddlewheel.

sand2snow22
01-30-2009, 06:56 PM
I have no idea if the update applies to wake edition. Seems like a few of those improvements, i.e., open water and not needing disengage in the turn (current version slams on the gas because the gps thinks you've basically stopped) would be helpful in a WB setting. I could see myself being interested in this upgrade. An adjustment for river current would be nice, too.

I'm thinking about installing it and reflashing her computer on Tuesday evening. I know you might not have much experience with MC cruise, but that is what it will be replacing.

I've driven our same boat, DBW, non-stargazer version of PP and I love it. Much better than MC cruise. Speeding up in corners is my only gripe, but it's barely a concern!

Should I just do it and get an update(s) and get her dialed in later?

Thanks in advance.......

east tx skier
02-01-2009, 12:02 AM
I'm thinking about installing it and reflashing her computer on Tuesday evening. I know you might not have much experience with MC cruise, but that is what it will be replacing.

I've driven our same boat, DBW, non-stargazer version of PP and I love it. Much better than MC cruise. Speeding up in corners is my only gripe, but it's barely a concern!

Should I just do it and get an update(s) and get her dialed in later?

Thanks in advance.......

The turning issues in non-sg PP is not exactly the same. Basically, in SG (current), the system gets its info from the gps, and when it turns, about half way around the turn, the system thinks you've stopped because your distance over time has decreased drastically.

I think it's a fine system for what I use it for and much easier to setup than PP digital pro.

Witness140
02-01-2009, 11:39 AM
We do most of our boating on a river. The water runs on a daily published schedule that we can check the evening prior. I started out with 6.5ng in the 197 last year. Obviously, we don't ski the course when the water is running. I eventually upgraded to Stargazer, and went through a couple of the versions that were out last season. The last one I had was the pure GPS version.

Initially I thought the pure GPS version was the way to go, but in the end, it wasn't. I ended up putting the 6.5ng master module back into the boat alongside the Stargazer master module on the kick panel. If we wanted to wakeboard or trick when the current was running, I would swap the wires over to the paddlewheel driven 6.5ng.

Our current not only varies day to day in speed (depends on volume being put through dam that day) but will also vary depending how far up or down river you are in relation to dams. GPS driven stargazer was a pain. You'd start at the bottom of the lake and correct for a 1.5mph current, and as you progressed upriver, you'd have to watch the wake and slowly decrease the set speed to correct for the 2.0 mph current at the top end. May as well just hand drive.

So I think the Y cable to a paddlewheel and GPS is a very good idea - for some of us.

This year I'll have ZeroOff and PP Wakeboard Pro side by side. One GPS 3 event system for slalom skiing when the water isnt running, and then the PP paddlewheel system for trick,surf, and boarding when the water is running.

macattack
01-21-2011, 08:00 AM
Now this is exciting! Confirmation of the latest Perfect Pass/Stargazer "ZO" upgrade in the works...this is a cut and paste from the "Ski Paradise Acapulco Newsletter January 21, 2011" written by Gordon Rathbun...

Eric Horton of Perfect Pass has been spending this week with Will Bush and the skiers here, testing and testing and will be offering a Perfect Pass upgrade. This upgrade will be for skiers who have a Perfect Pass speed control in their boats now, but don't want to spend the 4 figures to get the Zero Off in their boats. This upgrade will be below $500 (they don't really know how much yet,maybe $399.) This upgrade will be their Zero Off simulator accessory and should be a comfort to Perfect Pass skiers so their ride in practice can feel like a Zero Off ride in a tournament.

Hmmm, maybe now I won't need to sell my 2005 PS 197 TT??? :D mac

dstone124
01-21-2011, 10:15 AM
This would be awesome!

east tx skier
01-21-2011, 10:43 AM
Now this exciting! Confirmation of the latest Perfect Pass/Stargazer "ZO" upgrade in the works...this is a cut and paste from the "Ski Paradise Acapulco Newsletter January 21, 2011" written by Gordon Rathbun...

Eric Horton of Perfect Pass has been spending this week with Will Bush and the skiers here, testing and testing and will be offering a Perfect Pass upgrade. This upgrade will be for skiers who have a Perfect Pass speed control in their boats now, but don't want to spend the 4 figures to get the Zero Off in their boats. This upgrade will be below $500 (they don't really know how much yet,maybe $399.) This upgrade will be their Zero Off simulator accessory and should be a comfort to Perfect Pass skiers so their ride in practice can feel like a Zero Off ride in a tournament.

Hmmm, maybe now I won't need to sell my 2005 PS 197 TT??? :D mac

That's a pretty expensive upgrade. At my level, I have a hard time telling a difference between ZO and SG. I know there are a lot of higher end skiers out there that will be glad to see this though.

macattack
01-26-2011, 10:43 PM
From Perfect Pass' website: http://perfectpass.com/perfect_pass_whats_new.html

Jan 25, 2011 Speculation of a PerfectPass Slalom Upgrade

Over the last few days there has been much speculation / rumors that PerfectPass will be offering an upgrade to its competitive slalom process that will simulate the pull of ZO. While PerfectPass can confirm that some preliminary (and encouraging) testing has taken place in Mexico, the decision to actually develop this add on hardware is months away. In the meantime, a significant amount of software development and more testing is required in order to determine whether such a product meets the needs of our users while being commercially viable.

We appreciate the interest shown by many of our customers.

macattack
03-07-2011, 06:33 PM
Latest update from Perfect Pass:

http://perfectpass.com/perfect_pass_whats_new.html

Mar 4 , 2011 PerfectPass ZO Simulator Update

Further to our last announcement, we wish to advise that more encouraging testing has taken place in Florida over the past week. At this point we will be scheduling further testing and evaluation over the coming two months. It would be our hope that by late May a definitive decision will be made on the final details of this endeavor.

In the event the product is brought to market, it will simply be a small device that will plug into any existing PerfectPass Star Gazer Thee Event System.

east tx skier
03-07-2011, 07:07 PM
Hopefully the price is right!

sethro
03-08-2011, 11:51 AM
We do most of our boating on a river. The water runs on a daily published schedule that we can check the evening prior. I started out with 6.5ng in the 197 last year. Obviously, we don't ski the course when the water is running. I eventually upgraded to Stargazer, and went through a couple of the versions that were out last season. The last one I had was the pure GPS version.

Initially I thought the pure GPS version was the way to go, but in the end, it wasn't. I ended up putting the 6.5ng master module back into the boat alongside the Stargazer master module on the kick panel. If we wanted to wakeboard or trick when the current was running, I would swap the wires over to the paddlewheel driven 6.5ng.

Our current not only varies day to day in speed (depends on volume being put through dam that day) but will also vary depending how far up or down river you are in relation to dams. GPS driven stargazer was a pain. You'd start at the bottom of the lake and correct for a 1.5mph current, and as you progressed upriver, you'd have to watch the wake and slowly decrease the set speed to correct for the 2.0 mph current at the top end. May as well just hand drive.

So I think the Y cable to a paddlewheel and GPS is a very good idea - for some of us.

This year I'll have ZeroOff and PP Wakeboard Pro side by side. One GPS 3 event system for slalom skiing when the water isnt running, and then the PP paddlewheel system for trick,surf, and boarding when the water is running.

Witness140,

I spoke with PP last fall about the river current issue and was assured they have a new version of the software to solve your issues. I also spend quite a bit of time on a river with current, and asked them why they couldn't offer a "river mode" that one could enable from the screen that allowed the system to get it's speed data from the paddlewheel. He said they have that option, but you basically have to ask them for it. That was the only thing holding me back from upgrading to a StarGazer system, so I'll probably do that this year.

tr6coug
03-08-2011, 06:02 PM
Please forgive my ignorance on this subject, but what is different about the pull of ZO vs. PP and why do you want to simulate a ZO pull with PP?

macattack
07-30-2011, 09:18 PM
Latest from Perfect Pass' website...mac

"July 28, 2011 PerfectPass ZO Update – Significant progress has been made over the last sixty days on the software / hardware Upgrade for Star Gazer designed to emulate the pull characteristics of the ZO System in Slalom Mode. At this point we believe production in very limited numbers will commence in October, after final testing & evaluation in California tentatively scheduled for early September. No pricing has been set, but it is expected to be priced under $500. A further update will be released in September."

georgea0731
07-30-2011, 09:45 PM
I hope this is for more than just an upgrade. I've only got 6.5 NG, and originally I was told to upgrade to PP stargazer was about $499. To go to PP ZO addition that would be $1000?
Too much for my skiing ability. I guess if you can afford a $75K boat, then its not so bad (ha).
Thanks for the update and info.

macattack
07-31-2011, 05:52 PM
I hope this is for more than just an upgrade. I've only got 6.5 NG, and originally I was told to upgrade to PP stargazer was about $499. To go to PP ZO addition that would be $1000?
Too much for my skiing ability. I guess if you can afford a $75K boat, then its not so bad (ha).
Thanks for the update and info.

According to the first PP ZO update, the mod should work with all existing 3 event PP systems...

Mar 4 , 2011 PerfectPass ZO Simulator Update

Further to our last announcement, we wish to advise that more encouraging testing has taken place in Florida over the past week. At this point we will be scheduling further testing and evaluation over the coming two months. It would be our hope that by late May a definitive decision will be made on the final details of this endeavor.

In the event the product is brought to market, it will simply be a small device that will plug into any existing PerfectPass Star Gazer Three Event System

AZX45OD
07-31-2011, 06:22 PM
Please forgive my ignorance on this subject, but what is different about the pull of ZO vs. PP and why do you want to simulate a ZO pull with PP?


I second this question. Can anyone shed some light on this?

macattack
10-11-2011, 09:24 PM
Latest from Perfect Pass' website:

Oct 11, 2011: PerfectPass completes testing of its ZO simulation software at Shortline Lakes in California. Feedback was unanimously positive from a variety of skiers on all boats tested (2008 MasterCraft, 2002 American Skier and a 2001 Ski Nautique). According to those involved in the evaluation, the enhanced PerfectPass software produced an entrance gate pull and in course feel that duplicated the ZO system. In addition to the ZO feel, the enhanced software produced even tighter time tolerances pass after pass.

PerfectPass plans to produce a small quantity of the Z Box Simulator Kits which will be available late this year. Pricing is yet to be set but is expected to be less than $500 and will be “plug & play” with any Star Gazer System.

For an independent view of the testing log on to: http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/3811/perfectpass-zo-update-final-testing-and-evaluation-shortline-lake-elk-grove-ca

sethro
10-11-2011, 09:39 PM
And according to Schnitz, Zero Off has a Perfect Pass simulator (rumored to be setting D) in the works too.

Jorski
10-11-2011, 10:04 PM
Please forgive my ignorance on this subject, but what is different about the pull of ZO vs. PP and why do you want to simulate a ZO pull with PP?

I second this question. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Zero Off reacts very differently to load than does PP. If you are heavy on the line, the engine will rev and surge quite abruptly with ZO. As a result you have to both be light on the line and create most of your speed between the end of the turn and the 1st wake. with PP, you could really lean into it behind the boat if you were late, and make up time.

In tournaments they are running ZO. If you train on PP you will do considerably worse on ZO.

Unfortunately, only the drive by wire boats can run ZO. So, many people want to find a way to have PP feel more like ZO. Some do it by increasing the weight that they enter, while some change the pull characteristic setting.

At the end of the day, everyone just wants to be able to train with conditions close to those that they compete with.

If you are using PP, or MC cruise just as a speed control for your own recreational skiing, none of this matters.

Hope that helps.

Jim@BAWS
10-11-2011, 10:47 PM
"Unfortunately, only the drive by wire boats can run ZO. So, many people want to find a way to have PP feel more like ZO. Some do it by increasing the weight that they enter, while some change the pull characteristic setting.'
To claify...no one has DRIVE BY WIRE...only throttle by wire. BU tired to use this phrase as a comparison to MC...We all still use a steering cable

Just for claification purposes

Jim@BAWS

Jorski
10-12-2011, 03:16 PM
;) got it...but that is what it's called,

http://www.mastercraft.com/market/data/14/IMG_1066.jpg

Skipper
10-12-2011, 09:35 PM
;) got it...but that is what it's called,

http://www.mastercraft.com/market/data/14/IMG_1066.jpg

Oh snap. Score one for the Canadian.

AZX45OD
10-12-2011, 11:35 PM
Thanks JORSKI for the education on ZO vs PP

macattack
11-03-2011, 08:15 PM
Latest off Perfect Pass' website:

Oct 26, 2011 PerfectPass sets price for new Z Box and software upgrade at $439. Availability in limited numbers is expected by year end. As part of the new software package, all Star Gazer Three Event Systems will soon feature “No Magnet Timing”, eliminating the need for course magnets and Smart Timer Magnet Sensor. Any existing Star Gazer client will be able to purchase a software upgrade stick at $99 if they wish to add this “No Magnet” feature to their existing system.

east tx skier
11-04-2011, 09:44 AM
Cool. I'll probably opt for the no magnet setup next year. The zero off emulator seems a bit pricey for what I "need."

macattack
01-26-2012, 07:44 AM
The Z Box is finally here! I received this email yesterday morning...mac

Limited Quantity of Z Box Upgrade Released

We are pleased to announce that after final validation in Mexico and Florida, we are releasing the first order of the Z Box and version 8.0 software effective immediately.

The Z Box Upgrade Kit ($439 + $24 Fed Ex Shipping) includes a Software Download Stick and a small box that connects to the StarGazer Master Module. The Upgrade will take about 5 minutes to install and is extremely simple. (You must have a Star Gazer System).

Much like the 9 settings in the ZO system, this Upgrade will allow you to set a pull letter from A1-C3. Skiers that have experienced the Upgrade agree that the pull feel is very much like that offered from ZO. In addition, the new software features “No Magnet Timing” which allows you to run on any course without using your Smart Timer Magnet Sensor.

We do not expect this to be a high volume product and therefore PerfectPass has just 50 upgrade kits available at this time. These are only available direct from PerfectPass.

To order or for more information call us at (902) 468-2150.

Important Note: Some early StarGazer Modules from 2008 are NOT compatible with the Z Box. If you believe you purchased your upgrade in 2008 you may want to make a note of the serial # prior to contacting us.

Mechanical Master Module – Any Serial # less than SGM 1000 is affected.

DBW Master Module – Any Serial # less than SG1100 is affected.



FAQ

Q. I have a DigitalPro System (Not Star Gazer), can I upgrade?

A. Yes, but in addition to the Z Box you will require a Star Gazer Upgrade Kit. The package price for both items is $ 849. (This assumes you have a multi-line Display). If you require a new Display as well, the total packaged cost is $1029.

Q. Does it ski and feel exactly like the ZO system?

A. The upgrade is designed to simulate the pull and feel of ZO and most agree it does an excellent job. However, depending on your boat, engine, prop, elevation, skier style, etc. it may not feel exactly like ZO in your boat compared to ZO in a new 2011 boat.

Q. If I set up my new Upgrade with the No Magnet Timing method, is it ok that there are magnets in the course where I ski?

A. Yes, you will unplug your Smart Timer Magnet Sensor prior to “Mapping” your course and using your system.

Q. How many courses can be “mapped” in the system?

A. You can enter up to 3 courses.


Sales Office Hours

Monday to Friday – 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM EST


PerfectPass Control Systems Inc.
14 Trider Crescent
Dartmouth, NS B3B 1R6
Phone: (902) 468-2150
Fax: (902) 468-8837

tmacx2
01-26-2012, 01:21 PM
Sorry, I don't know much about this but was hoping someone might be able to answer a few questions. I installed perect pass stargazer on my previous boat (non MC) and it worked great. From what I understand medallion licenses the perfect pass name for the system on my 2011 X2, which is a paddlewheel system. It's ok for maintaining speed but is not as precise as the gps especially at surf speed. I know I may have to play around with the settings more though I did significantly increase the KDW. 0.4 mph off either way doesn't seem like a lot but is when you're surfing. Is this upgrade meant for the type of system I currently have? I called PP a few months ago about this and was told there was no way to put the stargazer on my boat. He suggested calling zero off to see if it was possible to upgrade with that. Anyone know if that's possible or if there are any other options? Thanks.

lettmeknow
01-26-2012, 02:49 PM
Z box is a soloution for tournament skiers who train behind PP , but are forced to ski in tournaments behind new boats equipped with ZO. It will basically make PP feel similar to ZO.Since ZO is only compatibale with DBW boats , those who rather not spend $$ on a newer boat, can still get the same feel by adding the zbox. ( supposedly!) So unless you ski tournaments , you dont really need it.

AussieMC
01-26-2012, 06:19 PM
Sorry, I don't know much about this but was hoping someone might be able to answer a few questions. I installed perect pass stargazer on my previous boat (non MC) and it worked great. From what I understand medallion licenses the perfect pass name for the system on my 2011 X2, which is a paddlewheel system. It's ok for maintaining speed but is not as precise as the gps especially at surf speed. I know I may have to play around with the settings more though I did significantly increase the KDW. 0.4 mph off either way doesn't seem like a lot but is when you're surfing. Is this upgrade meant for the type of system I currently have? I called PP a few months ago about this and was told there was no way to put the stargazer on my boat. He suggested calling zero off to see if it was possible to upgrade with that. Anyone know if that's possible or if there are any other options? Thanks.

You could definatley update to Zero Off, but the best way to maintain a relative consistant surf speed in PP is to run in RPM mode. Just adjust RPM's to desired speed and the boat will maintain it better than paddlewheel speed.