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samtechwaterski
01-29-2009, 11:48 PM
Hey everyone well looks like I will soon be removing my 351 and tranny out of the Prostar for an overhaul. Kinda a daunting task so I wanting to get some opinions on how I should do it, what I should look out for ect. One thing that comes to mind is how much trouble some people have had trying to separate the tranny from the engine. Also since I am basically doing an overhaul on both what parts should I replace and what can be reused after they have been cleaned up.

Things to replace.
Impeller
Thermostat
Belt
Water/Transmission hoses if needed
What about the Trans cooler? How to I make sure its not leaking.

Things like this I want to make sure I take special care with. Thanks so much in advance

Sam

TMCNo1
01-30-2009, 06:38 AM
Hey everyone well looks like I will soon be removing my 351 and tranny out of the Prostar for an overhaul. Kinda a daunting task so I wanting to get some opinions on how I should do it, what I should look out for ect. One thing that comes to mind is how much trouble some people have had trying to separate the tranny from the engine. Also since I am basically doing an overhaul on both what parts should I replace and what can be reused after they have been cleaned up.

Things to replace.
Impeller
Thermostat
Belt
Water/Transmission hoses if needed
What about the Trans cooler? How to I make sure its not leaking.

Things like this I want to make sure I take special care with. Thanks so much in advance

Sam

You can take the transmission cooler to a radiator shop and have it checked and if it's leaking, they can repair it or you can replace it with a new one here, http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=109

CameronCarey
01-30-2009, 10:28 AM
i recently pulled mine from my stars and stripes.......separating the engine and tranny is not a big deal just make sure when you do it.........both parts are supported........that tranny is heavier than you might think.

you should also consider removing the exhaust manifolds before pulling the motor........the weight of the manifolds is significant and can make the engine removal process more cumbersome.

Dan K
01-30-2009, 01:24 PM
I pulled mine out in November, take a picture of every detail before you undo anything that way you have something to reference. It took about 2 hours to pull. I used a extended arm engine puller intended for vans made the job a little easier. definately pull the exhaust manifold or they will just be in the way. braced the tranny from the bottom with pieces of wood.

mayo93prostar
01-30-2009, 03:50 PM
sam, take pics and post them. i am considering doing this too. a key thing to think of is re-alligning the engine/tranny to the drive shaft. you may want to make some marks indicating where the engine mounts line up on the hull. from what I have thought of you have the following to disconnect: shaft, pos bat wire, neg bat wire, wire harness, fuel line, water hose, exhaust hoses, mounting bolts. again, i think alignment is main concern. if your mounts are in good shape and are moveable, then adjusting alignment should not be a problem.

flipper
01-30-2009, 05:01 PM
are you doing the overhaul, or having it done?

samtechwaterski
01-30-2009, 05:33 PM
All good thoughts guys. I am interested in kinda trying to compile a list of what to replace/recondition. Like running new wiring ect while im at it. Gaskets on water pump ect.

As far as rebuilding the motor. I would like to do it myself but I have only rebuilt one motor and it was with a group of people. I have mechanical experience just I have never rebuilt a motor by myself so im kinda leery. I have heard that there is not that big of a price difference in having someone else reassemble it but thats kinda hard to believe. if there was someone in my area I would be more than happy to pay them and have me be their apprentice so I can learn and do it with them.

Sam

flipper
01-30-2009, 05:35 PM
IMO, depending on your troubles, I'd get a short block, and have the heads gone through. Replace water pump, starter if needed, gaskets, etc. Then, you will pretty much have a new motor. I don't know how much you want to spend, or the troubles you're having. How many hours? Using oil?

samtechwaterski
01-30-2009, 05:44 PM
Well it started with the transmission. Its slipping and slinging fluid everywhere (lost 2 qts in about 15 min. So I decided to rebuild it. The motor is using oil and leaking around the manifold as well so I thought it would be a good time to overhaul both get everything cleaned up and pretty then it would be good for a long long time. Boat has 690 hours. There is quite a bit of rust on the exhaust manifolds and transmission ect so I want to get that all stripped and repainted as well.

Sam

CameronCarey
01-30-2009, 07:13 PM
All the above is great advice especially the part about taking pictures.....if you feel that the engine/tranny both are questionable........i would consider shopping around to see if a complete unit is available.....my threads kind of take the opposite approach..........where the engine and tranny was good but everything else needed attention..............i wouldn't recommend this approach unless you are

A) dedicated
B) very mechanically inclined
C) ok with spending a small fortune 20 bucks at a time...

There are several companies that sell an engine tranny combo for a reasonable price..... better to do that then replace the short block, long block, accesories, risers, carb/injection parts, ignition system, alternator, and on and on....

Gamble
01-30-2009, 07:50 PM
Sam, here's a find on Craigs List that I thought might be of interest to you. It's in Tx, and a complete kit...........not sure what you'll end up spending on yours, but this may be something to look into. You'll probably have to cut and paste the link in your browser to make it work. It's a complete motor/tranny set up. http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/1011514433.html

denverd1
02-04-2009, 04:32 PM
Wow. I'd have a hard time not dropping that in and calling it done. Rebuild the current engine if you're so inclined, but that's a good deal. No mention of hours...

flipper
02-04-2009, 04:35 PM
That's a great price if it will work

SkiDog
02-04-2009, 04:55 PM
Hell, I used to pull my motor once a year just to clean the bilge before the reunions! Piece of cake, and I damn sure ain't no mechanic! I, however , left the tranny hooked to the motor when I pulled it. The whole job takes less than an hour!

Gamble
02-04-2009, 08:57 PM
I kinda thought so too...........should work, and for the money, it's all there........

samtechwaterski
02-05-2009, 11:11 AM
Hey guys thanks for the input. Ok so I have been looking and thinking about this craigslist ad, but I have some questions and I am confused about a few things. My engine is a Indmar Ford 351W carburated, with a powerslot. The craigslist ad is for a Marine Power Chevy 350 Fuel Injected motor. The owner is not sure what tranny he has whether is is a slot or 1:1. Can I make this work? What will have to be retrofitted? I would need some kind of a computer brain. These are just some thoughts I ve been having. Thanks alot

Sam

flipper
02-05-2009, 11:33 AM
Hey guys thanks for the input. Ok so I have been looking and thinking about this craigslist ad, but I have some questions and I am confused about a few things. My engine is a Indmar Ford 351W carburated, with a powerslot. The craigslist ad is for a Marine Power Chevy 350 Fuel Injected motor. The owner is not sure what tranny he has whether is is a slot or 1:1. Can I make this work? What will have to be retrofitted? I would need some kind of a computer brain. These are just some thoughts I ve been having. Thanks alot

Sam

The "brain" should be mounted on the engine far as I know. Tell him to look at the tag on the tranny, and give you all the info on it. Post that here. If the tranny won't work for you, you can get a different bell housing to bolt up to the GM engine engine I think

cbryan70
02-05-2009, 11:34 AM
Flipper are you ok today? An actual good post.....who knew?

flipper
02-05-2009, 11:35 AM
It's early:D

cbryan70
02-05-2009, 11:35 AM
I figured somthing must have been up

Gamble
02-05-2009, 11:40 AM
flipper is on it...........the brain should come w/it.........it should be able to be fitted to your application.........I'd find out about the tranny, but I'm sure you could make it work. Just a thought.

samtechwaterski
02-05-2009, 12:01 PM
I just spoke with him again, He is going to send me model and serial numbers for the motor and trans. Yes the Computer is mounted to the engine and he has the wiring harness and exhaust manifolds. He shipped it off to marine power and they did all the rebuilding. So hopefully I can get the model numbers and then figure out just exactly what it is from marine power.

samtechwaterski
02-05-2009, 01:04 PM
ok guys im kinda coming up empty handed. Sounds like a good deal if we could figure out exactly what it is. The gentlemen doesnt have the ability to take pictures and email them. Hes just not that good with computers. This is the information I got from him. I called Marine power with these numbers. He said that they lost alot of their records and the serial number was older and he did not know what it was. From his best guess it looks like a standard rotation 350 MPI. heres the info


Borg Warner Trans - as1-71c 1:1

marine power
350

21279 - Serial Number?
s350sk -

8350sr - TBI

marinepower

1996 -

cbryan70
02-05-2009, 01:48 PM
Its not powerslot......

samtechwaterski
02-05-2009, 01:51 PM
nope thats about all I can tell from all these numbers

Gamble
02-05-2009, 02:58 PM
Whereabouts is the motor/tranny.........I'm in Texas, near Houston, if I can help, let me know. From the sounds of it, you need to find out if you want to keep the slot and rebuild yours, and if so, what it would take, if anything, to work w/this motor. It sounds like a good deal, being as it is a complete unit.

samtechwaterski
02-05-2009, 05:26 PM
Gamble, Everything is located in Clear Lake. I think it would still be a pretty good deal even if I did loose the powerslot. Would be getting a basically new motor with EFI. I have not driven a non slot mastercraft so I guess I dont know what the difference is. Is it alot?
Sam

flipper
02-05-2009, 10:31 PM
Gamble, Everything is located in Clear Lake. I think it would still be a pretty good deal even if I did loose the powerslot. Would be getting a basically new motor with EFI. I have not driven a non slot mastercraft so I guess I dont know what the difference is. Is it alot?
Sam

I hope that somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can take the bell housing off the tranny that fits the engine, and put it on your powerslot. If you keep the 1:1 tranny, I'm pretty sure you'll have to replace the drive shaft everything behind it as far as drive shaft, prop, and everything that holds it in. The powerslot uses a bigger drive shaft than the 1:1.

I am not sure that you can't use the drive shaft with the 1:1 some how, but I'm pretty sure what I'm telling you is right. I'd either find out if you can use the bell housing on the new tranny on your powerslot, or buy a bell housing that will let you use you powerslot on the 350. I think it will be cheaper, and your boat will be worth more with the slot.

flipper
02-05-2009, 10:32 PM
That two cbryan.....are you keeping track of this!!!!!:D

Gamble
02-06-2009, 10:25 AM
I agree w/flipper...........see if you can make the slot work. If you can't do what's best for your budget. The slot is nice, had one on my stars and stripes. I have a 209 now w/o the slot, and I like it too. Keep in mind, all of it can be fixed for some money..........in other words, do what works now, but if you elect to change to the slot later, keep everything you have, and you can always change it............just might be a bunch of work or money later.

TMCNo1
02-06-2009, 11:17 AM
Not sure, but if the shaft couplings for the 1:1 and the 1:1.5 (PowerSlot) are the same bolt pattern and the transmission is not shorter then the 1 1/8" stuffing box, shaft, strut could remain, provided there is a prop out there that will work with the 1:1 transmission and the original PowerSlot drivetrain.

cbryan70
02-06-2009, 11:55 AM
Dont worrie flipper I am keeping track of these remarkable post........still early there or what.

samtechwaterski
02-07-2009, 08:08 PM
Ok everyone were just gonna stick with the original plan and rebuild the 351 and the powerslot. I started disassembly today. I think it went pretty well. I removed the motorbox and flooring. I got all the hoses plug wires and wiring practically pulled. I have a couple questions on the wiring. First can I get a new wiring harness? Is there a way to test if the wiring is in good shape? I kinda want to just replace all the wiring since it is pretty old. Also there is a sensor up by the thermostat? Which sensor is this? Is it the engine temp alarm sensor? I would also like to check the alignment before I pull the motor just for grins. So do I just get a .003 feeler gauge and feel inbetween the trans and coupler?

Here are a few questions that go with the pictures.

1. What is the sensor right by the thermostat housing?
2. On the picture of the ignition coil obviously it looks bad and paints chipping but is there a way to test if it is working correctly?
3. On the transmission picture it looks like the sensor up on top of the trans is the temp sensor? I would like to replace it but dont see it on Ski Dim
4. The other transmission picture shows another sensor on the right of the tranny is that the neutral safety switch?

I think thats it for now. any thoughts?

Sam

TCrate
02-07-2009, 09:22 PM
Sam,
Sensor by thermostat is Temperature sending unit. Tells the gauge what the temp is.
If the engine was running when you last pulled it out of the water the coil should be fine. I think auto part stores can test them.
I believe the sensor on the side of the tranny is the neutral safety switch.
Not sure what the one on top is.

TC

samtechwaterski
02-07-2009, 10:15 PM
Ok if thats the temp sender then what is this brass sender?

mad-dog1
02-07-2009, 10:25 PM
One is for the alarm / buzzer.....other is temp sending unit....

mad-dog1
02-07-2009, 10:27 PM
I have two sending units in mine...buzzer and gauge...
You'll enjoy working on the boat good luck....!! ;)

JLeuck64
02-08-2009, 12:23 PM
So do I just get a .003 feeler gauge and feel inbetween the trans and coupler?


Sam

Here's a link

http://www.elberts.com/faq.htm#q20

to a VERY useful website...
HTH

amber 6
02-08-2009, 02:34 PM
The one on Transmittion is the Safety netrual switch
http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R153011

Gamble
02-08-2009, 06:52 PM
On that year model, I don't think there was a sensor for a buzzer.....I don't there is a buzzer anywhere on that motor. TMC No.1 can tell us for sure. I'm certain there is an oil pressure sending unit on there.

TMCNo1
02-08-2009, 07:01 PM
On that year model, I don't think there was a sensor for a buzzer.....I don't there is a buzzer anywhere on that motor. TMC No.1 can tell us for sure. I'm certain there is an oil pressure sending unit on there.


I know on our '89 we have a high engine temp buzzer under the dash, not sure about a oil buzzer though! I would think if the switch would be cut to on and the engine not cranked a buzzer would go off, if there was one.

mad-dog1
02-08-2009, 07:12 PM
I have 2 hi temp sensors one on each side of the distributor, the oil pressure sending unit is right next to the fuel pump, I have an 86 190 and my engine is the 351 PCM Windsor..BTW I also have two oil pressure units, one feeds the gauge and the other one goes to a warning buzzer, same with the temperature sending units.....hope it helps...

mad-dog1
02-08-2009, 07:33 PM
I want to point out that depending on the raw water pump you have, please be sure to label it...I had a heck of a time after I redid my engine, the first day in the water it just kept overheating....Well It turned out that the raw water pump was installed upside down thus pushing the cooling water outwards instead of drawing it in to the block, Just a thought ...
anyone needs an extra thermostat??

mayo93prostar
02-09-2009, 07:16 AM
samtech, the sensor on top of the tranny is a temp sensor for the tranny, for a buzzer/light on the dash. the item on the side is the neutral safety switch. your tranny looks similar to what mine looked like before I cleaned and painted it, lots of rust, probably from salt water. when I replaced my neutral safety switch, it came apart because of the rust. I took the triangular shaped plate off of the side of the tranny to work on removing the switch in a bench vise using a pair of vise grips. I got a replacement gasket for the triangular plate from skidim, along with the switch.

samtechwaterski
02-12-2009, 07:50 PM
Ok, So as far as logistics go. I am ready to pull the motor just not to sure exactly what to set it on how to transport it ect. I have a friend who is going to let me use his shop to lift the motor out. It is a overhead track lift. Once I pull it out then what. If I put it on a engine stand can you really lift it and the engine in and out of a truck bed? (with a couple guys). It seems it would be top heavy. Another option is a engine cradle, but then I have to transport it in the cradle in the truck then someone get it on a stand? Can anyone shed some light?

Sam

denverd1
02-20-2009, 04:07 PM
Mad-dog, thats funny as hell. did the exact same thing! Couldn't figure out why it was getting hot till I stuck the hose in a bucket of water. Kinda makes you realize how tough these engines are.

Samtech, The engine itself will weigh about 600 lbs. Close to 1000 with the tranny, i would think. A stand would be nice so you can rotate it, if you need to. But, IIRC you're just doing the top end. If you get it in the truck, you'll need a lift on the other end to take it out.

Also, your leak "by the manifold" could be a valve cover gasket...

samtechwaterski
02-22-2009, 01:59 AM
Ok Everyone the Tear-down has begun. What do you think?

samtechwaterski
02-22-2009, 02:02 AM
More Pictures

mayo93prostar
02-24-2009, 07:17 AM
sam, you tore that out and down pretty quickly. looks good. fyi, I reconditioned my valve covers that look the same as yours by sanding them down, taping the top ridges and the "Mastercraft Power" lettering off, paint with Ford blue engine paint, remove tape, and then paint the silver ridges and lettering and the rest of the cover with clear high temp paint. they look as good as new. I actually did one cover by not taping it off, painting it all, using razor blade to remove blue paint from top edges, and then painting with clear. the taping was quite tedious. good luck, keep us up to date with pics.

wheelerd
02-25-2009, 01:37 AM
Looking closely at picture 4 in post #47 . . .
There is a long rectangular area in the bottom of the hull where the shaft housing is located. My boat has the same thing and I just thought perhaps it had been a repair of some sort -- looks at though part of the bottom was cut out and then replaced. From the bottom on the outside of the hull, however, there is no evidence of this.

Now having seen this photo I'm wondering if that's the way these came from the factory. Perhaps the hull bottom came out smooth in the mold and then a section was cut out to glass in the shaft area?

TMCNo1
02-25-2009, 06:48 AM
Looking closely at picture 4 in post #47 . . .
There is a long rectangular area in the bottom of the hull where the shaft housing is located. My boat has the same thing and I just thought perhaps it had been a repair of some sort -- looks at though part of the bottom was cut out and then replaced. From the bottom on the outside of the hull, however, there is no evidence of this.

Now having seen this photo I'm wondering if that's the way these came from the factory. Perhaps the hull bottom came out smooth in the mold and then a section was cut out to glass in the shaft area?

That's done at the factory during manufacture to allow the shaft log laid up in the hull to penetrate the bilge/interor liner. Once the liner and hull are glued/fused together, that area is sealed with gelcoat to eliminate the gap between the two surfaces.
I think you can see it here too,
44925

Hollywood
02-25-2009, 11:54 AM
That is my belief on how the hull is made, smooth then cut out for the log to be glassed in over.

Why not paint the whole valve cover blue, then sand the ridges and you'll be left with the same result, much less work.

denverd1
02-25-2009, 01:24 PM
Sam, lookin good! Lots of rust on the tranny, but thats normal. Makes me wish I would have pulled mine out when I redid it, looks like nothing to it. My back and knees are still pissed off about that! Not sure how long it will sit, but I'd wipe some motor oil in the bores and rotate it a few times just to keep them nice and clean. Maybe spray the lifter valley with WD if its going to be a while.

Go ahead and pull that diz. Setting the timing is a snap.

03 35th Anniversary
02-25-2009, 01:40 PM
More Pictures

Sam is that a 285hp engine? If so are those flat top piston in it?

denverd1
02-25-2009, 02:03 PM
I noticed that too. Had dish top pistons in my 351W...

03 35th Anniversary
02-25-2009, 02:08 PM
I noticed that too. Had dish top pistons in my 351W...

Was yours 240hp or 285hp?

samtechwaterski
02-25-2009, 11:59 PM
Here are a few more pictures. Motor has been torn down to the block and all the parts are at the machine shop. Im waiting to here from them to see what their opinion is.

It is the 351W HO. 285hp. The heads are indeed the GT heads. The pistons are Dish pistons. I actually though I would see flat top but as we can see they are dish. Everything came apart nicely with no big surprises. All pistons looked to have the same amount of wear no cracking ect.

Has anyone ever blasted and repainted the exhaust manifolds? Mine are in very marginal shape but I want to make sure it gets done right and will withstand the heat.

Sam

denverd1
03-02-2009, 05:07 PM
Was yours 240hp or 285hp?

240 hp, before upgrades.

What's up with main cap #3? starboard side?

I repainted my exhaust manifolds when I reworked my 351W. Just use hi-temp paint, should be good to go.

rcnjson
03-02-2009, 05:54 PM
240 hp, before upgrades.

What's up with main cap #3? starboard side?

I repainted my exhaust manifolds when I reworked my 351W. Just use hi-temp paint, should be good to go.

that would be the stud that holds the oil pump pickup

samtechwaterski
03-02-2009, 06:05 PM
Yes correct about the cap 3 bolt. it is a bolt that holds the oil pickup I put it on there so I knew where it was.

Would powdercoat be a good idea for engine parts?

denverd1
03-02-2009, 06:09 PM
if hi-temp, i don't see why not.

samtechwaterski
03-02-2009, 06:18 PM
anyone know how hot exhaust manifolds and risers get on our boats? I can usually touch mine after running and be ok?

TMCNo1
03-02-2009, 06:26 PM
Yes correct about the cap 3 bolt. it is a bolt that holds the oil pickup I put it on there so I knew where it was.

Would powdercoat be a good idea for engine parts?

Regular powdercoating for all parts but heads and exhaust manifolds and risers that would need ceramic powdercoating.

flipper
03-02-2009, 06:27 PM
anyone know how hot exhaust manifolds and risers get on our boats? I can usually touch mine after running and be ok?

The only time they will get very hot at all is if you're not getting water, then you'll be having an overheating issue anyway. I can hold my hand on mine no problem after running hard.

samtechwaterski
03-02-2009, 06:46 PM
So TMC1 is ceramic really necessary if the risers and manifolds never really get that hot?

Sam

TMCNo1
03-02-2009, 07:49 PM
So TMC1 is ceramic really necessary if the risers and manifolds never really get that hot?

Sam


It's the area around the heads near the exhaust ports and the exhaust runners from the head on the manifolds that won't hold paint or regular powdercoat and it will burn off and rust. You would probably prefer to have the manifolds and risers match in color if there is a slight difference in the two types of coatings.