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View Full Version : Bottomed out my boat- clogged up water intake- what to do?


jdl xstar
01-03-2009, 10:23 PM
I ran my X2 aground in a shallow area of a river today. Very nearly got stuck but pushed it out, thank goodness. But, the engine temp would not go down below 210 or so and eventually wouldn't start. I'm concerned that the intake took in too much muck and I did some serious damage. Any thoughts on how to fix? Would and engine flush with one of those plunger looking deals do the trick? thanks

east tx skier
01-03-2009, 10:58 PM
Pull the raw water hose off your transmission cooler and check the intake screen. It's probably got a bunch of junk on it that's cutting your flow.

JimN
01-03-2009, 11:22 PM
The first rule of high temperature problems-stop running the motor.

If you're on the water and it overheats, drop anchor and find out why it's overheating. Running it will only screw it up.

My guess is that the oil cooler is clogged, your impeller is toast and if it ran for any length of time, your exhaust hoses and flaps are probably melted. Hopefully, the motor wasn't damaged. DO NOT RUN IT until you get everything cleared out and a new impeller. If you find silt in the impeller, don't run it until you see exactly how far the silt got into the cooling system. If it got into the block, you should back-flush it before running it again. Sand or silt- it needs to go before running it.

jdl xstar
01-03-2009, 11:51 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. I probably ran it about 3 minutes before I saw that the engine temp was high. Then the "check engine" warning came on and I shut it off for good. Tried to crank it up an hour later and it wouldn't even turn over as if my battery was dead. I'll try and diagnose in the morning.

turbosdad
01-04-2009, 12:28 AM
Not sure of your set up but the exact thing happened to us with our 08 X2. Ran aground, push us off and then tried to drive out. upon acceleration the engine would overheat. Turn it off and it would cool off then we could restart then idle. If I idled it would stay at a good temp, any speed at all and it would overheat. We idled to the ramp. Next day I found the water intake filter screen. IT was about half full of sand/muck. Upon acceleration the sand would get suck to the screen and block the flow....if I idled then the silt would fall back to the bottom of the filter housing and allow water to pass through the screen. Took off the bowl cleaned the screen and it has been fine since. Hope you have the same luck.

Chief
01-04-2009, 03:22 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I probably ran it about 3 minutes before I saw that the engine temp was high. Then the "check engine" warning came on and I shut it off for good. Tried to crank it up an hour later and it wouldn't even turn over as if my battery was dead. I'll try and diagnose in the morning.

Not a good indication: Hopefully you did not seize the engine. I would see if you can turn the engine by the crank shaft pulley to rule out engine seizure. Good luck.

jdl xstar
01-04-2009, 09:12 AM
I have to take the boat into the dealership for some installs so I will have them check everything. In the meantime, this is my first time tinkering around with this MCX and I can't find the filter! It was more obvious in the '94 205 we had but I just don't see it on this engine. If I'm looking at the engine from the inside of the boat, where do I look?

TMCNo1
01-04-2009, 09:33 AM
Start looking at the raw water pickup in the bottom of the boat, next is the transmission cooler in the hose route, on the port side of the engine and will be black and looks like this.
43376
Pull off the hose where it enters the transmission cooler and look inside with a flashlight to see if it is clogged with dirt/pebbles, etc, then remove it from the other hose and mounting bracket, and remove the transmission lines and flush it out to start with.

jdl xstar
01-04-2009, 10:02 AM
Thanks TMCno1! Found it and yes it was full of crap. West Marine just openned up so I'm heading up there to get a flush kit. thanks!

JimN
01-04-2009, 10:41 AM
The Fake A Lake won't work for this kind of flushing. Just get a section of hose like what goes to the oil cooler, some hose clamps and a shutoff valve, like the ones sold in the garden department at Home Depot. That way, you don't need to get out of the boat to shut it off.

If it won't turn over, remove the spark plugs and try. This will clear the cylinders pretty fast, so either close the motor box or put something up so the interior doesn't get sprayed by water/silt/gas/sand or whatever else may be in there. If you have water in the cylinders, it won't crank at all and you'll kill the starter by trying.

Jerseydave
01-04-2009, 12:07 PM
If you have water in the cylinders, it won't crank at all and you'll kill the starter by trying.

Or worse bend some connecting rods, right Jim? :(

I would also recommend draining the water jacket (block) by removing the knock sensor and the block drain plug. Lots of silt/sand can end up there as well.

BriEOD
01-04-2009, 12:13 PM
If you have water in the cylinders, it won't crank at all and you'll kill the starter by trying.

Make sure you have some paper towels if this is the case so you can wipe away the tears!! Got my fingers crossed for you!!:o

TX.X-30 fan
01-04-2009, 12:45 PM
I would bet the motor is fine, he shut it down at 210 and that would not seize anything. Just a clogged screen and impeller. I would do as Bri suggests though to see whats in there, small pieces of the impeller could be in the jacket.

jdl xstar
01-04-2009, 01:23 PM
Thanks for all the great ideas. I cleaned out all the sand that was built up in the filter but I still couldn't get the boat to crank. Some of the suggestions are above my pay grade so I'm going to chalk this one up for dealer visit. Fortunately its nearby and I needed to pay a visit anyways for an amp install. I learned more about my engine today than i ever thought I would!

sand2snow22
01-04-2009, 02:30 PM
Jd,

I wonder if a code thrown, hopefully this is the case and the dealer can clear it. They should be able to work some magic and have you back on the water.

TX.X-30 fan
01-04-2009, 03:05 PM
Thanks for all the great ideas. I cleaned out all the sand that was built up in the filter but I still couldn't get the boat to crank. Some of the suggestions are above my pay grade so I'm going to chalk this one up for dealer visit. Fortunately its nearby and I needed to pay a visit anyways for an amp install. I learned more about my engine today than i ever thought I would!

Can I retract my post.

jdl xstar
01-04-2009, 04:03 PM
No retraction! Your post gave me encouragement! :) After doing what i could to clean out the filter, etc, this problem is out of my league but a trained tech will be able to fix this thing with no prob. Like most everyone else on here, I baby this thing so I'm mad I did anything to hurt it! That will be the last time I go into a shallow cove looking for gators!

trickskier
01-04-2009, 04:11 PM
I would bet the motor is fine, he shut it down at 210 and that would not seize anything. Just a clogged screen and impeller. I would do as Bri suggests though to see whats in there, small pieces of the impeller could be in the jacket.
The problem is the sensor records water temperature. If there isn't any water in the block the engine could have been running a lot hotter than the gauge was reading. I hope this is not the case. I'll be interested in finding out the results. Best of luck!

JimN
01-04-2009, 05:18 PM
If you have water in the cylinders, it won't crank at all and you'll kill the starter by trying.

Or worse bend some connecting rods, right Jim? :(

I would also recommend draining the water jacket (block) by removing the knock sensor and the block drain plug. Lots of silt/sand can end up there as well.

More likely to bend them if it's running, but let's start with clearing everything out, first. Don't want to be all doom and gloom, eh?

JimN
01-04-2009, 05:21 PM
No retraction! Your post gave me encouragement! :) After doing what i could to clean out the filter, etc, this problem is out of my league but a trained tech will be able to fix this thing with no prob. Like most everyone else on here, I baby this thing so I'm mad I did anything to hurt it! That will be the last time I go into a shallow cove looking for gators!

It's not hard to do this kind of repair but it's a PITA and has to be done. If you remove a hose and see dirt, make sure you know where it has to go back on and keep looking.

Squeeze your exhaust hoses- if you can do this easily or see any major bulges that don't look right, you may need to replace one or both, depending on how bad they are.

SteveO
01-05-2009, 03:55 PM
Question? Would a raw water in-line screen filter prevent this from happening? I added one from Ski-Dim to mine because the river we run can have alot of debris post rain.

BriEOD
01-05-2009, 04:06 PM
IMHO, it would prevent debris (depending on the granularity) from entering the upper side of the screen. However, as a result it could more rapidly cause a restriction or blockage of raw water into the motor subsequently resulting in overheating, etc.

jdl xstar
01-08-2009, 05:47 PM
Update.... Just heard from the dealer what many of you suspected. When it overheated, water got into the engine and the oil. They flushed the oil and pumped water out of the cylinders. I pick it up tomorrow morning and hope the bill isn't outrageous. Or will the warranty cover it...?

flipper
01-08-2009, 05:57 PM
I'm pretty sure warranty won't cover it. That wasn't a defect

JimN
01-08-2009, 06:01 PM
That's not a warranty issue. Neither is freezing and cracking the motor, overheating, etc.

jdl xstar
01-08-2009, 06:24 PM
That's not a warranty issue. Neither is freezing and cracking the motor, overheating, etc.

I knew it was a long shot.

While its there, they are installing 4 tower speakers. They are only swapping out my existing M4300 amp for an M6600 amp to run everything which will be 4 hull and 4 tower speakers and 1 sub (all the jl audio). Think that'll be enough juice to run everything the way it should?

TMCNo1
01-08-2009, 06:43 PM
We are waiting anxiously about info on why the boat won't crank and how extensive if any, the damage was due to the clogged raw water intake and transmission cooler!

alletric
01-08-2009, 08:20 PM
We are waiting anxiously about info on why the boat won't crank and how extensive if any, the damage was due to the clogged raw water intake and transmission cooler!


I was thinking the same thing. Man I would not be upgrading the tunes but see how long that bad boy holds together first. Nothing worse than needing a new engine with brand new speakers on board!

Witness140
01-08-2009, 08:23 PM
I knew it was a long shot.

While its there, they are installing 4 tower speakers. They are only swapping out my existing M4300 amp for an M6600 amp to run everything which will be 4 hull and 4 tower speakers and 1 sub (all the jl audio). Think that'll be enough juice to run everything the way it should?

Factory config for a boat with 4 tower speakers this year is.....

M6600 on top - running the 4 cockpit speakers and the sub.
M4500 on bottom - running the 4 tower speakers
2 batteries

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-7-ltr-MPI-Indmar-for-Mastercraft-350-H-P-w-80-hrs_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a4Q7c65Q3a10Q7 c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQha shZitem300285138671QQitemZ300285138671QQptZBoatQ5f PartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear

If things get really bad with your engine.....

TMCNo1
01-08-2009, 09:01 PM
I was thinking the same thing. Man I would not be upgrading the tunes but see how long that bad boy holds together first. Nothing worse than needing a new engine with brand new speakers on board!

That's OK, I know someone who bought a 1965 Corvair and the owner said the battery was just dead in it, so after putting a set of $3000 26's and rubber bands on it, he lifted the hood and found the whole engine gone including the radiator, what a bummer!:rolleyes::D

jdl xstar
01-09-2009, 10:14 AM
I'm heading up there in an hour to pick it up. they will give me the dirty details when I'm there but they said its ready to roll! These engines are tough! Keep you posted...

Thanks for the ebay link, Witness. ha! If I had to buy a new engine bc of what happenned, i would not be happy!

JimN
01-09-2009, 11:10 AM
If the motor had water in it, grill them extensively about whether they ran it after the water was drained and oil changed, how long they ran it, and if they changed the oil again. One oil change will never get all of the water out and residual water will damage anything it contacts, including the bearings, crankshaft, cam, lifters, cylinder walls/rings and gears.

One oil change is not enough to call this "fixed". Also, if they didn't do a compression, cylinder leakdown and vacuum tests, they can't be sure where the water in the cylinders came from. If it wasn't coming in through the raw water system, the only choices are cooked gaskets or from ingestion through the exhaust if it had run-on when you shut it down (virtually impossible with injection when the key is OFF).

jdl xstar
01-09-2009, 12:12 PM
If the motor had water in it, grill them extensively about whether they ran it after the water was drained and oil changed, how long they ran it, and if they changed the oil again. One oil change will never get all of the water out and residual water will damage anything it contacts, including the bearings, crankshaft, cam, lifters, cylinder walls/rings and gears.

One oil change is not enough to call this "fixed". Also, if they didn't do a compression, cylinder leakdown and vacuum tests, they can't be sure where the water in the cylinders came from. If it wasn't coming in through the raw water system, the only choices are cooked gaskets or from ingestion through the exhaust if it had run-on when you shut it down (virtually impossible with injection when the key is OFF).


JimN- Wish I saw this before I left but I seemed satisfied with what they told me. They said there was water in the cylinder which is why it wouldn't start. They pumped the water out. No codes on the engine. They flushed the oil 3 times and to their and my surprise, the impeller did not need to be replaced despite the raw water intake being jammed packed with sand. Not sure about if they did a compression or vacuum test but I'll shoot them an email and ask. I'm assuming thats what they did when they pumped water out of the cylinder. They have a good service dept so I'm confident they covered all bases. The true test will be how it performs out on the water!

Anytime it overheats i will shut it down immediately, but its nice to know that if you aren't paying attention or whatever, at least in some cases the MCX can run 5 minutes at 213 with no water intake and it shouldn't cause catastrophic damage. And maybe the impeller wont even melt!

ps, the speakers look and sound sweet too! :D

Jesus_Freak
01-09-2009, 12:55 PM
The problem is the sensor records water temperature. If there isn't any water in the block the engine could have been running a lot hotter than the gauge was reading. I hope this is not the case. I'll be interested in finding out the results. Best of luck!

I know I am a little late, but I wanted to add to what Trick said. Keep in mind that the temperature at the sensor (even if there is water there) is not representative of the entire block. Depending on the situation, some spots could be much hotter than others. Thermal information takes time to move from the cylinder wall to the sensor. In a low water flow situation, this movement is governed by (relatively slow) water conduction. By the time a high reading is registered, something could be a cookin'. JimN and others have probably discussed this before...

Datdude
01-09-2009, 02:38 PM
Would boat insurance cover something like this?:confused:

wakeX2wake
01-09-2009, 02:46 PM
Would boat insurance cover something like this?:confused:

i don't know about all cases but it didn't on our maristar... $8k for a new motor and install... we got froze though... this might could be listed as a accident if you were really good friends w/ your insurance agent

TallRedRider
01-09-2009, 03:33 PM
How did water get into the oil again? Something had to break, or is my puny understanding of boat cooling systems failing me? What is stopping the water from getting into the oil again?

Does heat alone or clogged cooling system cause water to cross into the oil?

jdl xstar
01-09-2009, 03:36 PM
How did water get into the oil again? Something had to break, or is my puny understanding of boat cooling systems failing me? What is stopping the water from getting into the oil again?

Does heat alone or clogged cooling system cause water to cross into the oil?

Good question. i don't know. I should've brought a print out of this thread to the dealership to ask them all these things. Just glad its workin now! :D

Hollywood
01-09-2009, 03:54 PM
Just make sure you're not too busy watching that temperature gauge and ram into a sand bar again! And definitely don't injure any of those ladies onboard.

JimN
01-09-2009, 04:00 PM
How did water get into the oil again? Something had to break, or is my puny understanding of boat cooling systems failing me? What is stopping the water from getting into the oil again?

Does heat alone or clogged cooling system cause water to cross into the oil?

That's why I mentioned ingesting it through the exhaust or bad gaskets. AFAIK, those are about the only ways it'll get there unless it comes in through the intake and since it wasn't swamped, that's not likely. Also why I recommended the three tests. The vacuum alone will show bad gaskets.

SunCoast 83
01-10-2009, 12:27 AM
Good question. i don't know. I should've brought a print out of this thread to the dealership to ask them all these things. Just glad its workin now! :D

orlando area?....did you go to Liquid Sports Marine or the new Master Craft of Orlando. I did not know if Liquid was still working on MC's anymore since they were no longer going to be a dealer.

jdl xstar
01-10-2009, 07:21 PM
That's why I mentioned ingesting it through the exhaust or bad gaskets. AFAIK, those are about the only ways it'll get there unless it comes in through the intake and since it wasn't swamped, that's not likely. Also why I recommended the three tests. The vacuum alone will show bad gaskets.

Jim- Sent them an email and they did do all those tests thankfully. They said a compression test is the first thing they do whenever there is an overheating issue. Gaskets were fine too. Looks like these engines are resilient!

Jay- yes, took it to liquid sports. Its news to me that they are no longer selling MC's.They had many on the lot but perhaps that is all 08 and older inventory. They didn't mention anythign about not being able to service my boat going forward so perhaps they will continue taken care of legacy customers. I heard about the new dealership but don't know anythign about it. Thought it was weird that the new MC dealership had been a correct craft dealership for the previous 30 years an then switched to MC. You know the deal behind that? :confused:

vogelm1
01-11-2009, 10:07 AM
How did water get into the oil again? Something had to break, or is my puny understanding of boat cooling systems failing me? What is stopping the water from getting into the oil again?

Does heat alone or clogged cooling system cause water to cross into the oil?

I was wondering the same thing too? If it was run aground, I can understand sand getting sucked up into the impeller, trans cooler, and engine, but how would that allow water to get into a cylinder? It must happen frequently enough, especially if JimN suggested it as a prelim check....sudden stop causes rush of water up exhaust?? Just curious anyway. Glad things worked out for you and no significant damage!

JimN
01-11-2009, 10:19 AM
I was wondering the same thing too? If it was run aground, I can understand sand getting sucked up into the impeller, trans cooler, and engine, but how would that allow water to get into a cylinder? It must happen frequently enough, especially if JimN suggested it as a prelim check....sudden stop causes rush of water up exhaust?? Just curious anyway. Glad things worked out for you and no significant damage!

You can't stop that suddenly but a flat spin would cause water to go up the exhaust and it doesn't happen all that often, but when it does, the person doing the work needs to find out how it happened in order to address the damage. The exhaust flaps can be easily damaged when there's no cooling water going out with the exhaust. Did they check the whole exhaust system?

TallRedRider
01-11-2009, 08:23 PM
You can't stop that suddenly but a flat spin would cause water to go up the exhaust and it doesn't happen all that often, but when it does, the person doing the work needs to find out how it happened in order to address the damage. The exhaust flaps can be easily damaged when there's no cooling water going out with the exhaust. Did they check the whole exhaust system?

I guess with the exhaust being much hotter than usual, it would also shrink more than usual as the engine cooled, thus sucking water in beyond what the little flappers can stop? Is that how the water got in?

TallRedRider
01-11-2009, 08:24 PM
You can't stop that suddenly but a flat spin would cause water to go up the exhaust and it doesn't happen all that often, but when it does, the person doing the work needs to find out how it happened in order to address the damage. The exhaust flaps can be easily damaged when there's no cooling water going out with the exhaust. Did they check the whole exhaust system?

I guess with the exhaust being much hotter than usual, it would also shrink more than usual as the engine cooled, thus sucking water in beyond what the little flappers can stop? Is that how the water got in? PV=NRT or something like that.

JimN
01-11-2009, 08:40 PM
I don't know if it would shrink to cause it, either. On motors with a carb, like all of those Mercruisers that have a run-on problem, when the motor finally gets around to stopping, it often will spin in reverse rotation. This makes it try to get its intake air from the exhaust ports and along with the air comes water, up from the exhaust system. Next time someone tries to start it, it won't crank and when they keep trying, it kills the starter. That's why I posted that it's unlikely that it happened with this boat, since it's injected and once the key is OFF, there's no fuel delivered so it can't run on. Now, if the boat has a lot of ballast and the waterline is extremely close to the exhaust manifold elbows, it could have gotten in by rocking, getting out of the boat and the wakes from other boats.

JohnE
01-12-2009, 08:30 AM
Can someone explain what "run on" is?

TMCNo1
01-12-2009, 08:33 AM
Can someone explain what "run on" is?


You know how some of the older vehicles would continue to run after the ignition was cut off, some people called it "dieseling", IIRC.

atlfootr
01-12-2009, 08:38 AM
The first rule of high temperature problems-stop running the motor.

If you're on the water and it overheats, drop anchor and find out why it's overheating.
Running it will only screw it up.

Hopefully, the motor wasn't damaged. DO NOT RUN IT until you get everything cleared out and a new impeller.
A good reason why it doesn't hurt to to carry extra impellers on board.

Jesus_Freak
01-17-2009, 07:39 PM
I guess with the exhaust being much hotter than usual, it would also shrink more than usual as the engine cooled, thus sucking water in beyond what the little flappers can stop? Is that how the water got in? PV=NRT or something like that.

Yes, P does = NRT/V for a limited range of variables in a gas; however, we are talking here about a change of state. As long as the cooling is done quickly, you can get away with just a little more algebra...P2 = P1*(T2/T1)^G/(G-1), where G is the ratio of heat capacities. But hey...you are directionally corret...the final pressure would be lower.

JimN
01-17-2009, 08:08 PM
The pressure may be lower but I'm not sure it'll be enough to suck water over the elbow unless, as I posted earlier, the water line and apex of the elbow's bend are really close. Plus, there's usually at least one intake valve open when the motor shuts off and if it happens to stop at the right point, it's possible for one cylinder to have a slightly open intake and exhaust valve since there's often a little overlap. As long as both are open at all, the pressure will equalize.

TX.X-30 fan
01-18-2009, 02:29 PM
I agree...

DDRAININ12
01-18-2009, 04:07 PM
Call your local Mastercraft Dealer. I have a great relationship with the one in Oregon and they are always more than willing to help.

Jesus_Freak
01-20-2009, 12:34 PM
The pressure may be lower but I'm not sure it'll be enough to suck water over the elbow unless, as I posted earlier, the water line and apex of the elbow's bend are really close. Plus, there's usually at least one intake valve open when the motor shuts off and if it happens to stop at the right point, it's possible for one cylinder to have a slightly open intake and exhaust valve since there's often a little overlap. As long as both are open at all, the pressure will equalize.

Fully agreed.....there is not enough driving force in this cooling-suction effect alone to pull the water over the elbow. It would take roughly a PSI to do the job = not likely. And, like you say, the pressure will probably equalize via overlap.

6ballsisall
01-20-2009, 12:47 PM
Fully agreed.....there is not enough driving force in this cooling-suction effect alone to pull the water over the elbow. It would take roughly a PSI to do the job = not likely. And, like you say, the pressure will probably equalize via overlap.

JF, you are way to smart for my level of comprehension my friend. 8p

Gamble
01-20-2009, 12:50 PM
JF, you are way to smart for my level of comprehension my friend. 8p

I just peeeeeeeed!

Jesus_Freak
01-20-2009, 12:51 PM
JF, you are way to smart for my level of comprehension my friend. 8p

That just means I am not doing an ample job explaining my point....sorry about that.:o

6ballsisall
01-20-2009, 12:52 PM
That just means I am not doing an ample job explaining my point....sorry about that.:o

Uh no, you'd be here all day/month/year/lifetime splainin' yourself on this one to me. :D

flipper
01-20-2009, 12:57 PM
Uh no, you'd be here all day/month/year/lifetime splainin' yourself on this one to me. :D

X2........

kawagaskier
01-20-2009, 02:25 PM
This is getting pretty complitated... Has anyone ruled out the possibility of the inner wall of the exhaust riser getting cracked due to the increased temp?

JimN
01-20-2009, 05:25 PM
This is getting pretty complitated... Has anyone ruled out the possibility of the inner wall of the exhaust riser getting cracked due to the increased temp?

I wouldn't rule it out, but we'll need to wait until spring to find out if that's the case. I have never seen it, but anything is possible, I guess.

Sodar
01-20-2009, 05:38 PM
I thought I ditched science classes when I graduated... I guess not!

TX.X-30 fan
01-20-2009, 06:20 PM
Water getting in the cylinder has to be simple only a few ways it could have happened. I would get a second opinion from a mechanic.

JimN
01-20-2009, 06:44 PM
Is there a proctologist in the house? Maybe they could stick their whatis up the boat's business and see if there's any indication of cracking.

TMCNo1
01-20-2009, 06:47 PM
Is there a proctologist in the house? Maybe they could stick their whatis up the boat's business and see if there's any indication of cracking.

Bigmac has the equipment, but the bowl prep on a boat might be a crappy job!:rolleyes:

TX.X-30 fan
01-20-2009, 06:53 PM
Is there a proctologist in the house? Maybe they could stick their whatis up the boat's business and see if there's any indication of cracking.




Nope but we could check with 210. :D