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View Full Version : Rate My Engine....or poke fun at my misery


CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:07 PM
On one of the other threads i mentioned that i was going to pull my engine repaint it and try to fix all the problems........some of you are snowed in and might enjoy a good laugh so i figured id post what i found.........This is a 77 S&S 351 ...to the best of my knowledge its the original engine.........the heads were done around 1990 to upgrade the valve seals......

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:10 PM
the Starboard side of the engine after it was removed things of note include

the replaced bolt in freeze plug............the nearly departed freeze plug and the two engine colors where the heads were redone sometime during the Clinton administration.. also shown is the Motorcraft ( i suspect automotive alternator)

Cloaked
12-26-2008, 10:11 PM
On one of the other threads i mentioned that i was going to pull my engine repaint it and try to fix all the problems........some of you are snowed in and might enjoy a good laugh so i figured id post what i found.........This is a 77 S&S 351 ...to the best of my knowledge its the original engine.........the heads were done around 1990 to upgrade the valve seals......Step away from the bong. :D

That engine is just fine for your fun. Paint it pUrty, just don't pimp it out. :cool:

You have a good boat to rebuild (having followed your other thread).

A new starter may be in order (just saying). I bought one a few years back and they are much smaller and are adequate for the motor. Glad I got a new one just to know it's there. The picture of that one made me think of the new starter. As I mentioned before, an electronic ignition is the best $150 you will spend on that engine.

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:13 PM
The port side which was amazingly clean........note the STP brand oil filter..... there is a remote oil drain installed as shown on the bottom of the picture (i hooked the hose up in the belts so it wouldnt get tangled while i was pulling the engine.

Is this remote drain original? ... I really have no idea!

Note that the block plugs on this side are not brass..(they are zinc coated steel it appears) ......but still in tact....other than the block drain which is a bit rusty for my taste.........this part looks pretty good

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:16 PM
the ugly............i suspected the rear main would have given out after 31 years or so.......when the heads were done the cam was replaced (by a pcm shop in orlando)....kinda wish they had done the rear since the engine was out of the boat anyway....

Cloaked
12-26-2008, 10:17 PM
The port side which was amazingly clean........note the STP brand oil filter..... there is a remote oil drain installed as shown on the bottom of the picture (i hooked the hose up in the belts so it wouldnt get tangled while i was pulling the engine.

Is this remote drain original? ... I really have no idea!

Note that the block plugs on this side are not brass..(they are zinc coated steel it appears) ......but still in tact....other than the block drain which is a bit rusty for my taste.........this part looks pretty good
That drain plug looks similar to a Fumoto drain-c o c k but I can't really see in the picture that well. There is also an option of a drain hose that exits out the mid-ship drain plug hole, although your drain is in the rear. That looks like an add-on if in fact your plug is (still) in the rear, as were a lot of the older boats. I don't think that is original equipment. I'd rather have the hose.

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:19 PM
and finally a question for those folks (not unlike myself) that expect an engine to always be perfect...........these are the plugs i pulled from my engine.......i suspect they are a season or so old......note that the cyls get really rich going aft.......and slight richer on the port side. is this a consequence of the angle of the engine.......

This is purely a curiosity to me..........i am changing the intake to a performer intake which will probably change my fuel distribution anyway........but this peaked my interest...... your thoughts are greatly appreciated

Cloaked
12-26-2008, 10:23 PM
Those plugs don't look too bad at all, regardless of the various discoloration. I think it's the nature of the beast. I have seen much worse with plugs. Remember this isn't a performance engine, but a workhorse. I too like clean plugs in all 8.

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:26 PM
Pictures are posted later of where I found pieces of impeller everywhere in the manifolds, hoses, exiting the pump............so pulling the engine apart was actually a GREAT idea...

i also found out i have an electronic engine conversion (curious that the previous owner told me that it had not yet had points this year but probably needed them)

two flaws that need to be fixed.........my ring gear on my flywheel is trashed.....it has about 80% of the teeth still and very few of those are the shape they should be......i have never replaced a ring gear..........i have always just replaced the whole flywheel .........suggestions on how or how not to do this are appreciated.

the Sherwood water pump has had one of the holes stripped out and re tapped to a larger size..(pictures later)....i realize its a small eccentricity but i think i will bore the opposing hole out to the larger diameter and tap it to the same size to avoid any imbalance.....(Why? because I'm an engineer and this kind of thing bothers me )

my hoses and belts were great and i think they can all be re-used....and probably will be encased in a steel mesh hose purely for vanity................and i checked compression before i pulled it from the boat.......all cylinders were very close (+/-) 10 psi and there wasn't any significant leak down in the 10 minutes i was willing to wait


Summary
its healthy but leaky and shows signs of maintenance ignorance/abuse..........i think i can bring her back to shiny and new looking but its going to take a little bit of work...........good thing the waters too cold to ski here in Northern Alabama 8o)

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:27 PM
Cloaked i suspect the mixture gradient is normal as you suggest............a consequence of the wedge spacer increasing the distance from carb to engine over what the Ford engineers planned ........ and the angle of the engine........but it struck me as odd to see such a near perfect distribution of lean to rich....i guess i expected someone to compensate for that .......maybe im giving too much credit to PCM in the late 70s

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:29 PM
Cloaked does skidim sell those drains............i have a few spots id like to put them on my manifolds also......in place of the bolts that are currently there?

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:31 PM
Cloaked you are correct, I do not have a mid ship drain hole....although that's a great idea with the low spot of the hull being in the middle............that drain hose just was lying in the bilge.......i haven't decided if i want to keep it or not..........Ive got one of those fancy sureflow oil pumps left over from years of working a major boat supply chain owned by a jewsh camera tycoon............its unlikely i would use the drain hose..

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:49 PM
so i missed something earlier i actually took two pictures of the raw water pump that i would like to share......one shows a piece of impeller about to be ejected into the engine cooling system..........the other shows the wallowed out hole.......a quick check online led me to believe that i could not just buy that flange to the Sherwood raw water pump.....so as mentioned earlier i will likely bore the opposing hole out and tap them both to the next oversize bolt...and obviously ......replace the impeller...

Anything else i should know about this Raw water pump?.......it must be made of solid gold from the prices i saw online for replacing it....

CameronCarey
12-26-2008, 10:55 PM
One last statement.....I have considerable experience in building finicky engines for British sports cars.....and ive put together a hot rod or two...and i can describe most boat fiberglass repair and electronics requirements with the best of them..... ......but this is my first foray into the internal workings of a marinized automotive engine........if anything i have said stated does not jive with whats normal customary or typical for this type of application........please let me know!.......This is a learning experience for me.....hopefully a short learning experience.


Thank you for reading my posts and the great help you (the posters) have given thus far..

Jerseydave
12-26-2008, 11:53 PM
From what I see, now's the time to:

*Fix any oil leaks, incl the rear main seal
*replace all the freeze plugs with nice new brass ones
*replace starter with new
*replace alternator with a marine-type so that your boat is less likely to go KABOOM
*breakerless ignition, new plugs and wires

Extra step would be to remove, sandblast and paint your exhaust maniflolds if they are in good shape

You have approx. 4 months...................ready...........set...... .......GO! :D

CameronCarey
12-27-2008, 12:18 AM
NJskiier

item one is in work..
Item 2 planned before painting the engine
Item 3 was new to me.......im contemplating that change now
Item 4 I needed to do that anyway.......60 amps just wont handle the stereo, marine radio, fish finder, gps, margarita maker, radar detector, 7500000cp lighting system that im dreaming up but will never install

have the electronic ignition........just need to clean up the distributor and get some new wires....

Thanks for the input!

uawaterskier
12-27-2008, 03:04 AM
NJskiier

item one is in work..
Item 2 planned before painting the engine
Item 3 was new to me.......im contemplating that change now
Item 4 I needed to do that anyway.......60 amps just wont handle the stereo, marine radio, fish finder, gps, margarita maker, radar detector, 7500000cp lighting system that im dreaming up but will never install

have the electronic ignition........just need to clean up the distributor and get some new wires....

Thanks for the input!
my advice...if your dreaming up a fish finder, I'm already mad lol

kev88
12-27-2008, 11:54 AM
Cameron my guess is from your job title that you live/work in the Huntsville area??

CameronCarey
12-27-2008, 12:17 PM
Yep ......i actually I've northwest of Athens but work in Huntsville

kev88
12-27-2008, 07:26 PM
Cool - I work in Athens and live outside of Huntsville.

CameronCarey
12-27-2008, 09:07 PM
Excellent...if i get this thing back together we will have to hook up sometime this summer....I usually put in at the browns ferry ramp

CameronCarey
12-27-2008, 09:11 PM
BTW i was kidding about the fish finder..........although some kind of depth indicator will be required here....

Bellinghamster
12-28-2008, 11:05 AM
Heh heh... now I understand the 100A alternator... those margarita makers draw nearly as much current as a Warn winch hauling a jeep up a cliff.

CameronCarey
12-28-2008, 08:02 PM
The 100A alternator is more about getting.........a newer product
(practically all cars are now equipped with at least a 100A alternator)


and keeping up with the stereo/lights on the boat....Ive been down the 40 to 60 amp alternator road before...........it it works well .......

until it doesn't........ Typically the battery starts to under perform some reason.....i usually point to the last wake that i accidentally jumped...... and the alternator charges at a rate that's acceptable for a good battery. Myself none the wiser shuts down to enjoy the evening breeze and get everything stowed away...then i try to start the boat up..............with a little vapor lock action going on...........usually at dusk.....when i'm drifting near a crowded waterway....and then the VHF dies because the battery is low from trying to start the vapor locked engine with the older battery that isn't performing as it did a week earlier....and this is about the time i realize that my cell phone is out of range ........but an alternator that can recover a weak battery to its full capacity quicker is an advantage in such situations........which vintage boat owners seem to find more often than others......


Moving the battery to the stern will probably help some too...

CameronCarey
12-28-2008, 09:32 PM
That drain plug looks similar to a Fumoto drain-c o c k but I can't really see in the picture that well. There is also an option of a drain hose that exits out the mid-ship drain plug hole, although your drain is in the rear. That looks like an add-on if in fact your plug is (still) in the rear, as were a lot of the older boats. I don't think that is original equipment. I'd rather have the hose.

I actually found this drain plug at Oriely auto parts in the "Help" section......along with two others for my exhaust manifolds.........the composition is exactly like what i removed.......not sure if its original........but its what was installed... total price for all 3 valves...9 bucks.

Cloaked
12-28-2008, 10:04 PM
Excellent...if i get this thing back together we will have to hook up sometime this summer....I usually put in at the browns ferry rampI worked at Browns Ferry for a while.


Looks like you's coming right along on track with the engine. :cool:

CameronCarey
12-28-2008, 10:21 PM
Today i replaced the Rear Main Seal but hit a snag in that the gasket set i purchased for the oil pan was not correct.......got to go back and get a different gasket and get the freeze plugs i ordered tomorrow..........next pictures should be of a sinfully bright red ceramic painted long block....(i realize not painting the engine blue, silver or black will upset many), but i like Red!

CameronCarey
12-28-2008, 11:11 PM
I worked at Browns Ferry for a while.


Looks like you's coming right along on track with the engine. :cool:

Hope you weren't in charge of insulation or rodent control.....

TX.X-30 fan
12-28-2008, 11:19 PM
Hope you weren't in charge of insulation or rodent control.....



I personally would not trust Cloaked. ;)

Cloaked
12-29-2008, 09:54 PM
Hope you weren't in charge of insulation or rodent control.....
No I wasn't. :)

h2oskifreak
12-30-2008, 01:47 AM
Today i replaced the Rear Main Seal but hit a snag in that the gasket set i purchased for the oil pan was not correct.......got to go back and get a different gasket and get the freeze plugs i ordered tomorrow..........next pictures should be of a sinfully bright red ceramic painted long block....(i realize not painting the engine blue, silver or black will upset many), but i like Red!

Hey, it's not a rebuild for resale. Do what you like, in the color you like and have fun with it. I have a car I redid to exact standards and I mean exact. Judges pour over the thing and struggle to find a bolt that isn't original. Then I have stuff that is all tricked out and has funky personality all over the place and I get more of a kick out of the "funk". You'll be glad you did it your way. If it was a 57 T-Bird, not the way to go, but here go for it.

CameronCarey
01-04-2009, 04:33 PM
Thanks for your support,

I still haven't found a suitable coil bracket to work with the performer intake......i wouild like to place it on the starboard side of the engine like so many of those pictured.......i think this bracket looks like a standard ford coil bracket........but haven't found any that weren't chromed cheap sheet metal things ...........which i figure would rust quickly.

TMCNo1
01-04-2009, 08:24 PM
Thanks for your support,

I still haven't found a suitable coil bracket to work with the performer intake......i wouild like to place it on the starboard side of the engine like so many of those pictured.......i think this bracket looks like a standard ford coil bracket........but haven't found any that weren't chromed cheap sheet metal things ...........which i figure would rust quickly.

I wouldn't count on it rusting much, for at least 20 years, unless you keep it constantly wet.
43394

CameronCarey
01-04-2009, 09:33 PM
Thanks for the input...........and the idea to put the coil on the front of the engine as sown in the picture......i don't know why i didn't think of that (i was fixated on it being on top of the intake) ..........that's a much better location........although i will prob place mine on the starboard side above the alternator..

Hrkdrivr
01-04-2009, 09:39 PM
I wouldn't count on it rusting much, for at least 20 years, unless you keep it constantly wet.
43394

Hey....isn't Coca-Cola corrosive?!? :confused:

CameronCarey
01-09-2009, 09:42 AM
An update, the block is painted, i had a friend weld an extension on my alternator bracket to match my shiny new Delco marine alternator,

I hope to install the intake valve covers and accessories this weekend.............the next project will be replacing that impeller on the Sherwood water pump and getting it cleaned up and ready to go.....

A question though..........what type of tubing should i use for the sight tube on the carter fuel pump..........mine had some food service tubing...........which i know does not properly control vapors (and looks like S*#@ )
Is there a marine grade clear fuel/vaccum line ..........or is this just something i get at the lawnmower shop?

TMCNo1
01-09-2009, 10:55 AM
An update, the block is painted, i had a friend weld an extension on my alternator bracket to match my shiny new Delco marine alternator,

I hope to install the intake valve covers and accessories this weekend.............the next project will be replacing that impeller on the Sherwood water pump and getting it cleaned up and ready to go.....

A question though..........what type of tubing should i use for the sight tube on the carter fuel pump..........mine had some food service tubing...........which i know does not properly control vapors (and looks like S*#@ )
Is there a marine grade clear fuel/vaccum line ..........or is this just something i get at the lawnmower shop?


The tube does not control vapors, but routes gasoline to the flame arrestor/carburetor in the event the diaphragm in the pump should fail, rather than dumping it into the bilge and causing a explosion if there was a spark. If you have a Go Kart racing parts/supplier locally, they carry clear and colored tubing in stock that they use for fuel lines and vent tubing and most hardware stores carry clear tubing that may be acceptable for use with petrochemicals, just check with them.
As can be seen in the picture I previously posted, I run a red tube that I bought from a local Go Kart racing supplier, Competition Karting in Welcome, NC, http://www.ckikarts.com/, that is in the same business park developed by Richard Childress Racing. Tubing can also be found here, http://www.jegs.com/i/Competition+Karting/246/AFL500CL10/10002/-1

Dan K
01-09-2009, 11:58 AM
Let's see some pictures of the progress

CameronCarey
01-09-2009, 02:25 PM
I will try to get some up this weekend 8o)

Thanks TMCNo1

CameronCarey
01-13-2009, 10:29 PM
i posted some updated pictures on the other thread

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=28138&page=2

Gamble
01-18-2009, 04:31 AM
lookin' good!

CameronCarey
01-19-2009, 09:38 AM
Thanks Gamble, if i can find the last few fasteners i need........i should have completed pics of the engine by this weekend....