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scott_fx
12-10-2008, 09:19 PM
Hello,

I'm a first time boat...shopper, looking to get my first boat. I've been going to the lakes for 3 years with friends and now i'm looking at a used 2000 x-star but it need some work. the hull/engine has 608 hours on it and looks like it may need a thorough cleaning. the big concern is that there is a clicking sound near the 'transmission' from what the seller has told me. What rough prices am i going to be looking at for either a replacement or rebuild? Also; generally, how long do these engines last until they need a rebuild? Is 608 hours just asking for trouble?

The price is pretty exceptional so i'll have a few grand to play with to get it in tip top shape, i just want to know what i'm getting into before i take the plunge.

also, i'm open to any opinions or suggestions you have about this purchase. Please excuse any ignorance on my part, this is my first venture into the boating world.

thanks,

scott

Xstreamws
12-10-2008, 09:58 PM
I have 2004 MASTERCRAFT X2, ONE OWNER!!! Excellent condition! - BOAT IS LOCATED CAMAS, WA. Here is what this X2 has: -Indmar MCX 350Hp (ONLY 100hrs) -Perfect Pass -Mooring Cover -MC Bimini Top -Tower Speakers w/Lights Front -Tower Lights rear facing -Digital Depth Finder -Heater -Shower - Boot Slick System -Stereo Remote for Driver -Transom Saver -Teak Swim Platform -Tandem Trailer w 4wheel disc/brakes, and LED Lights. This Boat is always Garaged, never moored, custom gel coat, Black, white, gray I will make you one hell of a deal. $37K I have pics let me know if you want me to post.

scott_fx
12-10-2008, 10:01 PM
I have 2004 MASTERCRAFT X2, ONE OWNER!!! Excellent condition! - BOAT IS LOCATED CAMAS, WA. Here is what this X2 has: -Indmar MCX 350Hp (ONLY 100hrs) -Perfect Pass -Mooring Cover -MC Bimini Top -Tower Speakers w/Lights Front -Tower Lights rear facing -Digital Depth Finder -Heater -Shower - Boot Slick System -Stereo Remote for Driver -Transom Saver -Teak Swim Platform -Tandem Trailer w 4wheel disc/brakes, and LED Lights. This Boat is always Garaged, never moored, custom gel coat, Black, white, gray I will make you one hell of a deal. $37K I have pics let me know if you want me to post.

thanks... but as you see from what i'm starting from my budget is well under what you are offering. This is my first boat and with the economy i want to play it safe. My budget is around >16k.

Xstreamws
12-10-2008, 10:03 PM
No problem! Enjoy! If you buy it, welcome to the MC family.

scott_fx
12-10-2008, 10:08 PM
thanks. i'm excited about it. just want to make sure i dont make a mistake. right now it's between this and a malibu that seems to be in better condition but a lot more.

Chicago190
12-10-2008, 10:11 PM
608 hours is nothing if it was well taken care of, but from what you say this boat may not have been. The engines will easily last 1500+ hrs. before needing any serious work.

I bought a boat that after having for a year discovered was probably not taken care of very well, and I spun a rod bearing with 750 hours.

scott_fx
12-10-2008, 10:14 PM
that's what i was assuming as well. i was worried because the other boats i am looking at are both under 200 hours. The boat may be in better condition when i look at it. i'm just going off of what the mechanic said and what i can tell by the not so great quality internet images. I just like to go in with worst case scenerio. :)

Xstreamws
12-10-2008, 10:17 PM
I just went to Fan Fair at the Mastercraft Factory, went on a tour and saw how the boats where manufactured and the amount of detail and craftsmanship that go into these boats is 2nd to none. The X2 about is my 3rd MC and I just bought a 2008 X2 making it 4 MCs now. After the tour and the ride and drive session (Drove all the boats on the MC Lake) I have come to the conclusion along with the 9 other people I went with, we all will never buy anything else but MC. If you go to www.pdxwake.com there are pics of the production line at MC on there. Enjoy. Good Luck!

JimN
12-10-2008, 10:54 PM
Hello,

I'm a first time boat...shopper, looking to get my first boat. I've been going to the lakes for 3 years with friends and now i'm looking at a used 2000 x-star but it need some work. the hull/engine has 608 hours on it and looks like it may need a thorough cleaning. the big concern is that there is a clicking sound near the 'transmission' from what the seller has told me. What rough prices am i going to be looking at for either a replacement or rebuild? Also; generally, how long do these engines last until they need a rebuild? Is 608 hours just asking for trouble?

The price is pretty exceptional so i'll have a few grand to play with to get it in tip top shape, i just want to know what i'm getting into before i take the plunge.

also, i'm open to any opinions or suggestions you have about this purchase. Please excuse any ignorance on my part, this is my first venture into the boating world.

thanks,

scott

Call some of the transmission shops near you- one may do work on these for other marinas. Otherwise, Atlantic Transmissions (or google) may be able to help.

As far as the motor, unless it has been regularly rode hard and put away wet, the motor should be fine. If it has overheated repeatedly or if you want to really know its condition, have a marine survey done. Have a cylinder leak-down test done, along with a vacuum test. They will indicate the general health of the motor. Damage from freezing or overheating can affect these and it may have physical signs of either/both. The cast iron 350 is pretty hard to screw up. With halfway decent maintenance, the one on my pickup has close to 300K on it and it runs great. 608 hours is really nothing, unless, as I said, it was hard time.

scott_fx
12-10-2008, 11:00 PM
Call some of the transmission shops near you- one may do work on these for other marinas. Otherwise, Atlantic Transmissions (or google) may be able to help.

As far as the motor, unless it has been regularly rode hard and put away wet, the motor should be fine. If it has overheated repeatedly or if you want to really know its condition, have a marine survey done. Have a cylinder leak-down test done, along with a vacuum test. They will indicate the general health of the motor. Damage from freezing or overheating can affect these and it may have physical signs of either/both. The cast iron 350 is pretty hard to screw up. With halfway decent maintenance, the one on my pickup has close to 300K on it and it runs great. 608 hours is really nothing, unless, as I said, it was hard time.

thanks for the informative replies. this is starting to help me out. i dont think the freezing thing is an issue because i'm in southern California. The guy that i spoke to said it ran w/o overheating... but i'm sure they didnt put it through it's paces. btw.. this is a bank repo so i'm dealing with a liquidator representative.

I'll check with the trans shops around town too.

JimN
12-10-2008, 11:19 PM
i dont think the freezing thing is an issue because i'm in southern California.

You can think that, if you want, but do you remember how cold it was around Christmas of '91? The pipes froze over my cousins' ceiling in Menifee and they burst. It was 24įF when I woke up that morning in Temple City.

scott_fx
12-10-2008, 11:21 PM
You can think that, if you want, but do you remember how cold it was around Christmas of '91? The pipes froze over my cousins' ceiling in Menifee and they burst. It was 24įF when I woke up that morning in Temple City.

ah.. i moved here from MA at the end of 2000. Having never experienced freezing conditions where i live, I didn't realize it ever got that cold. excuse my ignorance

JimN
12-11-2008, 12:38 AM
ah.. i moved here from MA at the end of 2000. Having never experienced freezing conditions where i live, I didn't realize it ever got that cold. excuse my ignorance

Sorry, I didn't know you were a transplant. My point is basically, "Never say 'never'".

scott_fx
12-11-2008, 12:39 AM
Sorry, I didn't know you were a transplant.

i thought we all were :)

JimN
12-11-2008, 01:56 AM
i thought we all were :)

We all gotta be from somewhere.

mayo93prostar
12-11-2008, 08:29 AM
scott, one of your primary questions was how much more money are you likely to spend. I believe a tranny rebuild is around $1500 but it depends on what parts are needed and how much work you do versus the shop. If you got a couple thousand to work on it, you should be OK, but obviously there is some risk. on the other hand, the noise may not be anything significant. It could just need more fluid, or change fluid, or it could be a valve lifter, not tranny. need to test drive it on the water and have a mechanic look at it. good luck and hopefully you will be joining the MC family.

scramison
12-11-2008, 04:59 PM
$16k for a bad condition X-star doesn't seem like a good deal maybe an ok deal.



I found one on autotrader for 9k but it has a galvanized trailer which means its been in salt water most likely. If you see a gray trailor like the one in this listing be weary and make sure you get a mechanic to look over it.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2000-Mastercraft-X-Star-93968784

scramison
12-11-2008, 05:07 PM
i'm just going off of what the mechanic said and what i can tell by the not so great quality internet images.

What mechanic did you talk to? If a mechanic is saying the boat is in bad condition Im sure he would be able to tell better than you in person right?

Also if the pics are bad its probably for a reason.

I would try to go with the better condition Bu because it is a more predictable situation. Thats just me though.

Here is something else to consider. Its a 2002 X-star with high hours I think 800 or 600 not sure. They wanted around 21k from what I remeber. Looks well taken care of and it has the newer style tower.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2002-Mastercraft-x-star-91788428

scott_fx
12-11-2008, 07:04 PM
$16k for a bad condition X-star doesn't seem like a good deal maybe an ok deal.



I found one on autotrader for 9k but it has a galvanized trailer which means its been in salt water most likely. If you see a gray trailor like the one in this listing be weary and make sure you get a mechanic to look over it.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2000-Mastercraft-X-Star-93968784


sorry, I was saying my budget is 16k... not the boat. That boat that you linked to is the exact boat i am going to see. My friend has a galvanized trailer but he never took his boat to the ocean; so it didnt even occur to me, are there any tell tale signs that would tell me that it's been in salt water? I'm not sure how the whole thing works but i'll see about getting a mechanic to look at it with me and getting a test drive.

so depending on how much i can get it for when the bidding starts, i may have about 4-5k to work with in getting it ready for the summer.



What mechanic did you talk to? If a mechanic is saying the boat is in bad condition Im sure he would be able to tell better than you in person right?

i'm sorry, i mean the broker... not the mechanic (i've been working 12 hour days/6 days a week to get this project up to speed... i was a bit tired when i replied :) )


Also if the pics are bad its probably for a reason.
all the pics on the site aren't the greatest


Here is something else to consider. Its a 2002 X-star with high hours I think 800 or 600 not sure. They wanted around 21k from what I remeber. Looks well taken care of and it has the newer style tower.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2002-Mastercraft-x-star-91788428
[/QUOTE]

thanks for that link but it's well over my budget.


scott, one of your primary questions was how much more money are you likely to spend. I believe a tranny rebuild is around $1500 but it depends on what parts are needed and how much work you do versus the shop. If you got a couple thousand to work on it, you should be OK, but obviously there is some risk. on the other hand, the noise may not be anything significant. It could just need more fluid, or change fluid, or it could be a valve lifter, not tranny. need to test drive it on the water and have a mechanic look at it. good luck and hopefully you will be joining the MC family.

thank you... this is more of what i was hoping to get for a reply. depending up the bidding process i may have a small lump of change to work with. My options are to either get an older boat in better condition closer to my budget, or try for this one and get everything back to great operating condition. I'm a bit meticulous about my 'toys' and keep them running well, so i would want to fix up the boat correctly.


thanks again for everyone's posts. it's helping at least with things to look out for and to research.

scramison
12-11-2008, 07:36 PM
well dont bid it up to much. I can tell you that boat has been on the market for a good while at $12,000. They didn't get enough attention so they lowered the price. I wouldn't go much over 10k or 11k. Again the galvanized trailor is not a plus, just make sure you get it checked out by a mechanic so your sure your really getting a good deal. I know it sounds harsh but most good deals really just look good. They are discounted for a reason.

If I were you I would look for a mid to late 90s 205 VRS and put a tower on it for a thousand. It would be the same hull as the X-star your looking at with a much better tower. Just find one in good shape

scott_fx
12-11-2008, 07:39 PM
thanks for the heads up. after reading the posts i did call up a mechanic and left him a message. I'll try a few more places to see if can get a mechanic to come with me. i would assume they offer this service for an hourly rate.

scramison
12-11-2008, 07:48 PM
This is the tricky part. Most shops need the boat on site to do a engine compression test. This is really what you want done to see the condition of the engine. Then have them do a water test and they should be able to tell you if the clicking is a bad thing or not a big deal.

What I did was figure out where the boat is located and call around. Find the shop that is friendly and willing to work with you. Hopefully its a MC dealer but other dealers can do the same tests as long as they specialize in wakeboard boats.

This way for 2-300 at the most you can get an idea of the condition without leaving your house. Thats some cheap insurance in my opinion.

Another tip is to make sure the dealer keeps the results private because if they come back positive you don't want everyone else bidding on it to know its a good deal (if thats the case).

scott_fx
12-11-2008, 08:09 PM
thanks for the suggestion. i just talked to a mechanic that can do a 2 hour inspection including all mechanical, wiring/electrical and he's willing to do it on site.

woftam
12-11-2008, 09:46 PM
well dont bid it up to much. I can tell you that boat has been on the market for a good while at $12,000. They didn't get enough attention so they lowered the price. I wouldn't go much over 10k or 11k. Again the galvanized trailor is not a plus, just make sure you get it checked out by a mechanic so your sure your really getting a good deal. I know it sounds harsh but most good deals really just look good. They are discounted for a reason.

If I were you I would look for a mid to late 90s 205 VRS and put a tower on it for a thousand. It would be the same hull as the X-star your looking at with a much better tower. Just find one in good shape

Youíve mentioned galvanized trailers as being a negative on a couple of occasions in this thread. Iím not sure that is correct.

A galvanized trailer might indicate the boat is used in salt or brackish water. Then again, it might not. The owner might just prefer a trailer with enhanced corrosion protection to the structure?

Even if the boat is used in salt, brackish, or primarily fresh water containing a small % of salt content, itís does not necessarily make the boat undesirable. It does mean the boat is more subject to the effects of corrosion than a fresh water only boat. In an environment where salt is present, diligent flushing of the engine with fresh water, cleaning, and lubrication help to mitigate the negative effects of salt. There are also a number of substances/circumstances that promote deterioration of boats that are operated in fresh water only. Perspiration contains salt and other corrosive compounds. Certain skin care products and sun blocks can be detrimental to the longevity of upholstery and metal. Even in fresh water, Ph will factor into the corrosion equation. These are just a few examples. Most can be controlled by diligent cleaning and proper lubrication.

Granted, a galvanized trailer is an indicator that a boat is used in salt water. Best to check the condition of the boat, engine, instruments, and components for their overall condition and decided based upon that.

Not everyone has the luxury of boating exclusively in a fresh water environment. BriEOD skis on the Severn and mayo87prostar probably operates on the South or Rhode River. Those rivers all have some rate of salinity, but Iím betting their boats are well cared for and show few signs of corrosive damage. Their boats may even have galvanized trailers. If they do, more power to them. A galvanized trailer will resist corrosion longer than its painted counterpart, regardless of use in a fresh or salt environment.

woftam
12-11-2008, 09:49 PM
thanks for the suggestion. i just talked to a mechanic that can do a 2 hour inspection including all mechanical, wiring/electrical and he's willing to do it on site.

Now youíre talking due diligence. Best of luck!

scramison
12-11-2008, 11:15 PM
Youíve mentioned galvanized trailers as being a negative on a couple of occasions in this thread. Iím not sure that is correct.

A galvanized trailer might indicate the boat is used in salt or brackish water. Then again, it might not. The owner might just prefer a trailer with enhanced corrosion protection to the structure?

Even if the boat is used in salt, brackish, or primarily fresh water containing a small % of salt content, itís does not necessarily make the boat undesirable. It does mean the boat is more subject to the effects of corrosion than a fresh water only boat. In an environment where salt is present, diligent flushing of the engine with fresh water, cleaning, and lubrication help to mitigate the negative effects of salt. There are also a number of substances/circumstances that promote deterioration of boats that are operated in fresh water only. Perspiration contains salt and other corrosive compounds. Certain skin care products and sun blocks can be detrimental to the longevity of upholstery and metal. Even in fresh water, Ph will factor into the corrosion equation. These are just a few examples. Most can be controlled by diligent cleaning and proper lubrication.

Granted, a galvanized trailer is an indicator that a boat is used in salt water. Best to check the condition of the boat, engine, instruments, and components for their overall condition and decided based upon that.

Not everyone has the luxury of boating exclusively in a fresh water environment. BriEOD skis on the Severn and mayo87prostar probably operates on the South or Rhode River. Those rivers all have some rate of salinity, but Iím betting their boats are well cared for and show few signs of corrosive damage. Their boats may even have galvanized trailers. If they do, more power to them. A galvanized trailer will resist corrosion longer than its painted counterpart, regardless of use in a fresh or salt environment.




Your post seems contradictory. Regardless, we are talking about a boat that has already been established to be in poor shape. To assume it is a salt water boat is taking it a little far but to say it shouldn't affect your decision would be incorrect as well. I just wanted to bring it up because when I was intially searching for boats I didn't even know what a galvanized trailer was and he is new to boating.

woftam
12-12-2008, 11:26 AM
No. The point was that the condition of the boat (or boat and trailer package), in relation to the price paid, is a better predictor of value. A galvanized trailer can either be a good, or a bad indicator, depending upon many other factors.

Given that the boat is a repo, that’s a much bigger red flag than a galvanized trailer to me. Then again, the prospective buyer is having it evaluated and will make a decision based upon that input, what he thinks of the boat, and price.

It doesn’t boil down to galvanized trailer = bad and painted trailer = good.

scott_fx
12-12-2008, 11:38 AM
at the expense of this spinning out of control i think that we are all on the same page. This boat may have its issues and thanks to you guys i feel that i'm taking some necessary steps to protect myself and know what i'm getting into. I'll report back to you and let you know if I plan on bidding, if i win, and what winter project is in store for me this winter :)

scott_fx
12-12-2008, 03:16 PM
at the expense of this spinning out of control i think that we are all on the same page. This boat may have its issues and thanks to you guys i feel that i'm taking some necessary steps to protect myself and know what i'm getting into. I'll report back to you and let you know if I plan on bidding, if i win, and what winter project is in store for me this winter :)

well, that boat just got sold... so i guess my concerns are null :-\

i'm going to keep looking though. i really liked everything about the x-star hopefully i can get something in my pricerange

JimN
12-12-2008, 05:14 PM
Sorry you didn't get this one, but maybe you'll find one that qualifies as a smokin' deal.

One thing I'd like to add- while there are some aspects of the newer boats that are a lot more technical than before, it's still not rocket surgery and anything that breaks can be repaired.

If you have a good amount of mechanical aptitude, can use reason and logic to diagnose problems and have access to a few pieces of diagnostic equipment and/or people who know how to fix what breaks on these and shop around for parts, what may look like a complete POS to one person can be made into a great boat. Because structural damage is very expensive to repair, I would probably hold off on something that hit boulders unless it would be a donor boat for all of the other parts. Other than that, it's all repairable for a fairly reasonable price if you can do a lot of it yourself.

scott_fx
12-12-2008, 05:20 PM
that's a good outlook. i'm bummed out; yeah, but it may have been a sign. i'm looking for boats that are in better condition now that wont require the time additional time/money investment. I'm pretty good with problem solving and mcgyver-ism. (My friend loved having me on the boat because I always figured out what was wrong and how to fix it.) so i will keep your insight in mind when i'm looking.

JimN
12-12-2008, 06:11 PM
I went to a local boat dealer's "show" where they took all of the boats they wanted to dump and while the guy I went with wanted something that he could turn the key and go, I was looking at the ones that needed the most work. He's not a real water skier, so wake isn't something he understands- he just wants to go out, drag the kids around the lake and cruise around. Found a 19 1/2' Glastron that had no stern drive (It was inside, in a couple of boxes) and someone had reupholstered everything with awning material. It was pretty bad. Had some gouges, scratches and generally highly oxidized gelcoat. The oil was coal black, it was dirty and the previous owner was obviously not big on maintenance. I did the repairs to the drive, removed the oxidation and had a friend with a shop do the upholstery (and save him a butt-load of money), he changed the oil/fluids/tuneup cleaning/get rid of the old gas/trailer service. We got it to "start" as soon as he got it home and I would bet the plugs were original. It didn't seem to want to run, but after the plugs were changed, it popped right off and ran great once we got it on the water. It took some work but it really turned out well.

Like I said, anything is repairable, but that may come from having been a marine tech, so....

Just remember- if something is being dumped because it has problems, it's a great opportunity for someone to come along, buy it for a better price and fix it. Some people make a living doing this.

funk
12-12-2008, 06:12 PM
I think you mentioned you were in socal. This place, if not the one you have been dealing with, specializes in bank repos and has pretty good deals at times. Might want to check in and see what they have occasionally. X-80 looks like the only MC they have right now.

http://www.lbys.com/site_page_224/