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Waketn
12-09-2008, 09:44 AM
Hey guys, I was invited to join my local dealer for the MasterCraft fanfare event. What an awesome event – we were able to see how MC boats are made and demo whatever boats we wanted. What caught my eye though was a boat they were working on. Not sure if they wanted us taking pictures, but I did as the group moved on to the other tour stop
This thing was BIG! Here are the images –

coz
12-09-2008, 09:47 AM
Spy pics, I love it! :D

That thing looks like an Ark

Stritt
12-09-2008, 10:04 AM
That looks amazing! I have heard some rumbling on a 30' x 11' beam day Crusier from MC. I actually was planning on going to the Miami show to get a peak. From what I hear it will be finished in top materials.....Not in my budget, but in a couple years on the used market....possibly. The side windows on the hull look like the prototype from Cobalts crusier.

TMCNo1
12-09-2008, 10:07 AM
OMG!!!!!!!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_12.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_34_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)

SkiDog
12-09-2008, 10:41 AM
Hey guys, I was invited to join my local dealer for the MasterCraft fanfare event. What an awesome event – we were able to see how MC boats are made and demo whatever boats we wanted. What caught my eye though was a boat they were working on. Not sure if they wanted us taking pictures, but I did as the group moved on to the other tour stop
This thing was BIG! Here are the images –

:D:D:D:D...............................

Datdude
12-09-2008, 10:55 AM
surprised these pics are still here:D

ttu
12-09-2008, 10:58 AM
surprised these pics are still here:D

well he posted them over on wakeworld also so removing them here wont do much good.

ORX-1
12-09-2008, 11:07 AM
I had a buddy go to the factory last week and said that they weren't allowing pics! Well done!

SkiDog
12-09-2008, 11:09 AM
I think TMC#1 was behind all this!:D:D:D He's the ONLY one with this much clout!

Dball
12-09-2008, 11:16 AM
AWSOME!! As pricey as the 26 csx is, this thing will be close or over 200g's

TMCNo1
12-09-2008, 11:24 AM
I think TMC#1 was behind all this!:D:D:D He's the ONLY one with this much clout!

I'm just thrilled to know our little boat may be the tender boat for that monster!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_12.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)

TMCNo1
12-09-2008, 11:55 AM
surprised these pics are still here:D

Just wait till Barney see's this thread and Waketn is banned!
42792

42793

coz
12-09-2008, 12:17 PM
Just wait till Barney see's this thread and Waketn is banned!
42792

42793

Just let me get my bullet in and I'll handle this.

skeeler
12-09-2008, 12:19 PM
Doesn't look like an MC to me. :confused:

thijs
12-09-2008, 12:24 PM
Three event??

TMCNo1
12-09-2008, 12:28 PM
Three event??

Cruzin', boozin' and snoozin'!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)

ski_king
12-09-2008, 12:29 PM
I am a little confused on engine(s) placement. I dont see accessibility to the engine compartment.

TMCNo1
12-09-2008, 12:39 PM
I am a little confused on engine(s) placement. I dont see accessibility to the engine compartment.

V-Drives with 2 diesels, under the boxes in picture three, each side of the walk-thru/walk-around steps. That whole thing will hinge up to access drive train/bilge, I would suspect. Look at the size of the strut, much bigger than 1 1/8"!

coz
12-09-2008, 12:42 PM
Is this the front or back? maybe those two boxes are for the engines.
I looks like the starting of a 1000sqf condo if you ask me :D

ski_king
12-09-2008, 12:53 PM
V-Drives with 2 diesels, under the boxes in picture three, each side of the walk-thru/walk-around steps. That whole thing will hinge up to access drive train/bilge, I would suspect. Look at the size of the strut, much bigger than 1 1/8"!

Ok, I see the split line now, was hard to see that at first.

It sounds like you know more than you are saying.......

sully
12-09-2008, 01:12 PM
I had a buddy go to the factory last week and said that they weren't allowing pics! Well done!

Was asked not to post pictures when I visited...
Way to go!

TMCNo1
12-09-2008, 01:53 PM
Is this the front or back? maybe those two boxes are for the engines.
I looks like the starting of a 1000sqf condo if you ask me :D

That is a pic of the rear of the boat, looking toward the bow, taken from the ladder in picture four. The steps on each side of the engine/bilge hatch appear to be there for the cockpit walk around on the outer edge of the deck.

TMCNo1
12-09-2008, 01:56 PM
Ok, I see the split line now, was hard to see that at first.

It sounds like you know more than you are saying.......
I may know people, who know people that may know!:rolleyes::D

Monte
12-09-2008, 02:16 PM
That is one big dayum boat!!!

sand2snow22
12-09-2008, 02:18 PM
MC Yacht!!!!

coz
12-09-2008, 02:23 PM
Mixed reviews @ WW http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/650669.html?1228846783

flipper
12-09-2008, 02:42 PM
If it was that big of a secret they wouldn't have people touring around in there.

corey
12-09-2008, 02:52 PM
I think its a little odd that the WW crowd is asking about the wake, obviously this is designed to run in water thats less than conducive for wakeboarding, not saying I wouldnt try it but I highly doubt the person buying this boat is going to request a wakeboard tower.

SkiDog
12-09-2008, 02:58 PM
Cruzin', boozin' and snoozin'!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)

And mating!:D

wakeX2wake
12-09-2008, 03:48 PM
that's cool and an impressive engineering feat and if they can produce it it will be that much more impressive but... i'm saving my pennies for a new star... and that's after a new house... i'm pretty sure that one's gonna be out of "normal folks'" price range anyway... i'll stick w/ my loaded down X2... its bad enough on gas as it is

jsnipes
12-09-2008, 04:21 PM
Guess who has had his last tour of the factory! hehehe...

Does anyone wonder if MC is straying too far from its brand identity?? Hmm...

JS

Prostar19
12-09-2008, 07:33 PM
I went through the tour as well and they said they were going after the buyer that wanted to down grade from a 40+ footer but still wanted all the quality. Also wanted to get the MC buyer that has graduated to a bigger boat for replacement or in addition to their current MC. I am so sick of everytime a new MC comes out there is always someone on hear asking if "MC has Lost their way" Should MC only be building the Prostar 190?? It is what they were founded on. Should they have never built an open bow? god forbid a V-Drive. A wake board boat come on thats just stupid who wakw boards? Holy crap they may even think about a surf boat but I am sure no one will buy one of those. Grow up. Companies evolve and build bigger and better things. Their core business has not suffered. They are about the only boat company building boats right now. They even told us they hired new engineers from Cobalt and Sea Ray to head up the 300 project because the small boat engineers could not design the 300 in a timley fashion or design it they way it should be built. So now they have dedicated engineers for the big boats and the ski + wake boats. If MC would have never "Lost their way" We would not have an XStar or an X2 or any X boat......

jaysus
12-09-2008, 08:12 PM
^^^Well said ProStar 19.

MasterCraft has current owners asking for bigger MasterCrafts. As a boat manufacturer isn't that exactly where you want to be? MC continues to strive to satisfy it's customer base. MC is building these new models to keep current owners with the brand and to entice other brand owners to come over and take a look. If that's straying...

coz
12-09-2008, 08:25 PM
Build it and they will come :D especially with MC on the side :D

Who said that? Walt Disney? :confused:

trickskier
12-09-2008, 08:49 PM
I wonder how it would look in ORANGE & BLUE ??? :rolleyes:

André
12-09-2008, 08:52 PM
... Should MC only be building the Prostar 190?? ...

Well,if you're asking me,yes.;)
Don't care for any other models.

trickskier
12-09-2008, 09:01 PM
Well,if you're asking me,yes.;)
Don't care for any other models.

Don't you need an Ice Breaker Model up there??? :rolleyes:

ProTour X9
12-09-2008, 09:04 PM
jsnipes and Prostar19 have good points,
As far as I knew, MC made sport towboats, be it the ProSport or the X-5, all were meant for towing watersports. That is the brand of MasterCraft I knew. As far as MC losing their way, they've certainly have done something different, pushing the envelope. If thats their business decision, fine; I can't afford, nor would I ever buy a X-50000. I hope they dont slap the X Logo on it, nothing extreme about a floating army tank. Best of luck to MC in their new endeavor.


All that being said, think of TriStars and WetJets....not their best moves.

coz
12-09-2008, 09:04 PM
Don't you need an Ice Breaker Model up there??? :rolleyes:

:uglyhamme

JohnE
12-09-2008, 09:16 PM
All that being said, think of TriStars and WetJets....not their best moves.


Ouch. I think the tristars were good boats and underrated.

André
12-09-2008, 09:18 PM
Don't you need an Ice Breaker Model up there??? :rolleyes:

Yep.Frozen since 2 weeks.
You guys got room for one more Québec snowbird Tabarnak ?;)

JohnE
12-09-2008, 09:20 PM
If MC didn't want pics of the 300 to sneak out here, they wouldn't let you take them. I took the factory tour in early October and they "asked" us not to post 214V pic's on the web. But even dealers were posting them at the time. And the 300 was mocked up in full display in engineering.

As far as building a boat of this size for it's intended market - why not?????? They still offer the 190. If you want one, buy one. And they continue to offer more to the rest of the market. They haven't forgot their roots. They put as much into the professional watersport industry as anyone, probably more.

trickskier
12-09-2008, 09:26 PM
Yep.Frozen since 2 weeks.
You guys got room for one more Québec snowbird Tabarnak ?;)

Don't think you could handle the humidity...............I'm in Miami tonight..............It was 79 at 9am this morning.................:D

BrianM
12-09-2008, 09:43 PM
MC has made really big boats before. Remember the huge Maristar cuddy cabin of the early 90s? At least this one is metalflake!

TMCNo1
12-09-2008, 09:43 PM
Wow, look what that guy started, I think he should be banned!:rolleyes::D

jsnipes
12-09-2008, 11:27 PM
Sgt Hulka: "You're all in this together. One of these men may save your life one of these days, understand?"

John Winger: "Then again, maybe one of us won't."

Take it easy ProStar ... X boats are still tow boats. A cabin cruiser is not. I was just thinking out loud. It will be interesting to see how it goes over. I'm sure regardless it will be the usual MC high quality.

JS

I went through the tour as well and they said they were going after the buyer that wanted to down grade from a 40+ footer but still wanted all the quality. Also wanted to get the MC buyer that has graduated to a bigger boat for replacement or in addition to their current MC. I am so sick of everytime a new MC comes out there is always someone on hear asking if "MC has Lost their way" Should MC only be building the Prostar 190?? It is what they were founded on. Should they have never built an open bow? god forbid a V-Drive. A wake board boat come on thats just stupid who wakw boards? Holy crap they may even think about a surf boat but I am sure no one will buy one of those. Grow up. Companies evolve and build bigger and better things. Their core business has not suffered. They are about the only boat company building boats right now. They even told us they hired new engineers from Cobalt and Sea Ray to head up the 300 project because the small boat engineers could not design the 300 in a timley fashion or design it they way it should be built. So now they have dedicated engineers for the big boats and the ski + wake boats. If MC would have never "Lost their way" We would not have an XStar or an X2 or any X boat......

Storm34
12-10-2008, 12:18 AM
That thing is awesome! It looks Huge!!!

Kind like the "Spruce Goose?"


Or the old MC 240!!!

JohnE
12-10-2008, 06:10 AM
Hmm. I had never seen the Maristar cuddy. I would have lost that bet if it ever came up in conversation.

TMCNo1
12-10-2008, 06:40 AM
East Coast Reunion 2005, MariStar 240 SC
42809

ProTour X9
12-10-2008, 07:32 AM
Ouch. I think the tristars were good boats and underrated.

I've never been in one personally, but, my dad knew a few guys who had them and they broke down alot, and more importantly didn't ski that well. Even our dealer jokes around about the tristars.

bbymgr
12-10-2008, 08:09 AM
Maybe MC will design a Pontoon?? With a V-drive??:D:D:D

JohnE
12-10-2008, 08:14 AM
I've never been in one personally, but, my dad knew a few guys who had them and they broke down alot, and more importantly didn't ski that well. Even our dealer jokes around about the tristars.


I owned one for just one year. An '88 from '06 -'07. I also had an '89 prostar from '03 -'06. There was nothing more likely to break on the Tristar than on a prostar. And of course it didn't ski like a prostar. But it ski'd a lot better than people give it credit for.

Prostar19
12-10-2008, 09:01 AM
jsnipes,

I am just saying just because it is a bouat the you or I may not buy does not mean they are loosing their way. If they discontinue the XStar and call this new 300 a wake board boat then they are lost...

Stritt
12-10-2008, 10:39 AM
In my opinion, MC is not losing brand identity. I can understand how some of the "loyalist" may have that opinion. Sure the SS/190 was the beginning of MC, and the orgin of MC. Honestly, and this is just my opinion.....If MC stayed "true" to the skier, MC would not be the company it is today. Innovation and out of the box thinking and what appears to be good leadership is keeping the company "alive" today. Diversity is a GOOD thing! The housing boom is over, the refinace to buy a boat days are long gone!

Next...

For those of you that do not know, about 2 years (maybe 3) Cobalt attempted to start a manufacturing facility in Vonore, in the same industrial park as MC and Sea-Ray. That facility is closed and all manufacturing is back in KS. The facility was going to build the the Cobalt Yacht line............interestingly Prostar19 made reference to Cobalt engineer's.

Sea-Ray and Brunswick are HURTING look at stock symbol BC for proof. Sea-Ray in Merrit Island where all the Sea-Ray Yachts are built recently layed off 60 more employees, mostly from engineering and admin......Talent pool looks pretty good for companies in need of expertise and fast pace the learning curve into a new market segment.

I have a Cobalt and it is on par with a MC, no doubt.....In the end its different strokes for different folks. I am not in my 20's anymore.....In my later 30's I value time on the water with my family, for us its cruising and hanging around the beaches on the intracoastal, running over to the Bahama's, shooting through the Keys or running up the St. John's to the Springs. I personally am impressed that MC is looking for my $$ (maybe I have it, maybe I don't...depends on who you ask ;) ) In closing, be glad that MC is looking to grow into the true market segment of boating. For those of you on small lakes, private lakes the world is totally different along the coastal waters......Rare to see a MC on the Intacoastal...that can only mean growth opportunity for MC in this segment.


Back to the Cobalt, click the link for thier "yacht".....It could be me but the design features have some common areas....Would'nt be the first time......XStar and 240SD come to mind.

http://www.cobaltyachts.com/

Mod's if the link needs deleted, I understand.

TMC
12-10-2008, 02:19 PM
Ok, ok, ok. Let's address a few things -

1) Yes we are developing and will soon be producing a 300

2) These pictures were not supposed to be posted but by the time we discovered it, they were on Wakeworld and a few other sites. In fact, I think they hit those sites first. As we have experienced in the past, people who run those boards don't take down content just because we ask. So that is why you did not hear from us on these being posted here.

As for the argument, "if we didn't want them posted, we would not let people in the factory" - well that is just asinine. We don't have a secret facility to build boats somewhere. You may not know this but all our new boats are now built on the line with the people who will eventually assemble the boat for production. By involving more people earlier, we streamline the learning curve and can produce new product quicker. So this boat is no different - it is being built on the line so people can learn how to make it. Because of that, there is no way for us to avoid people seeing it. All we could do is ask that people not share the information. Most people did that - a few did not.

3) As for "has MC lost their way" comments / questions- I really do enjoy the same old questions because that gives me yet another opportunity to repeat the same old answer.

First let me remind you that our company does business as "MasterCraft Boat Company" - not MasterCraft Ski Boat Company, not MasterCraft Wakeboard Boat Company. It is MasterCraft Boat Company. That means any and all viable, reasonable markets are fair game so if the progressive and innovative management of this company sees fit to go after another segment, we will do that. Our mission statement is simple - "MasterCraft strives to deliver to every consumer the ultimate on-water experience by designing and building the world's highest quality, best performing sports luxury boats in every significant niche." But for those that like numbers here you go - the inboard industry only produces about 11,000 customers per year that buy new boats. With the exception of this year, the stern drive market produces 30,000 new boat sales a year (up to 35 footers). So is it really a mystery what we are doing here?

Second, has anyone noticed that we just released the ProStar 214V. If not, please let me share. We just developed a new ski boat! It is the only V-Drive that is certified to pull sanctioned, world record tournaments. In other words, it joins the ranks of the 197. So how have we lost our way again???

Third, we easily spend more money than any other manufacturer on product design for towboats, events and athletes. If we had lost our way, why would we resurrect the Pro Waterski Tour? Why would do the Pro Wakeboard Tour? Why have the largest roster of athletes??? Let me encourage you to step back and look. You will see we have not lost our way.

Finally, we have not lost our way - not even close. What we have done is raise the value of YOUR MC so please accept our apologies. It is not the BMW 1 class that brings value to BMW. It is the 7 series. It is not the Porsche Boxster that brings value to Porsche but the 911 Turbo that is about $160,000. But I bet you don't hear Porshce Boxster owners complaining about Porsche building a Turbo because they know that brings value and credibility to their car. We are doing the same for you by pursuing this growth model.

4) As mentioned, this boat is being built by the best talent in the industry - one of the advantages to this economy for us, even though we have experienced softened sales, is that we are able to snap up some great talent. We have done that and this boat will be the result of that investment. In fact this is the smallest boat this crew we hired has built.

5) When will it be released to the public? At the Miami Boat Show in February. But before then you will see a lot more about this guy so keep checking back at MasterCraft.com to find out how you can learn more about the MC300.

Hopefully that clears this up - if not, I am sure you will let me know in your very non-sarcastic ways. But you guys know by now, I can dish it and take it.



Jason


*****

Xstreamws
12-10-2008, 02:48 PM
Nicely put Jason! Amen!

ChicagoX55
12-10-2008, 03:04 PM
Nice Tmc!!!

TMCNo1
12-10-2008, 03:38 PM
Ok, ok, ok. Let's address a few things -

1) Yes we are developing and will soon be producing a 300

2) These pictures were not supposed to be posted but by the time we discovered it, they were on Wakeworld and a few other sites. In fact, I think they hit those sites first. As we have experienced in the past, people who run those boards don't take down content just because we ask. So that is why you did not hear from us on these being posted here.

As for the argument, "if we didn't want them posted, we would not let people in the factory" - well that is just asinine. We don't have a secret facility to build boats somewhere. You may not know this but all our new boats are now built on the line with the people who will eventually assemble the boat for production. By involving more people earlier, we streamline the learning curve and can produce new product quicker. So this boat is no different - it is being built on the line so people can learn how to make it. Because of that, there is no way for us to avoid people seeing it. All we could do is ask that people not share the information. Most people did that - a few did not.

3) As for "has MC lost their way" comments / questions- I really do enjoy the same old questions because that gives me yet another opportunity to repeat the same old answer.

First let me remind you that our company does business as "MasterCraft Boat Company" - not MasterCraft Ski Boat Company, not MasterCraft Wakeboard Boat Company. It is MasterCraft Boat Company. That means any and all viable, reasonable markets are fair game so if the progressive and innovative management of this company sees fit to go after another segment, we will do that. Our mission statement is simple - "MasterCraft strives to deliver to every consumer the ultimate on-water experience by designing and building the world's highest quality, best performing sports luxury boats in every significant niche." But for those that like numbers here you go - the inboard industry only produces about 11,000 customers per year that buy new boats. With the exception of this year, the stern drive market produces 30,000 new boat sales a year (up to 35 footers). So is it really a mystery what we are doing here?

Second, has anyone noticed that we just released the ProStar 214V. If not, please let me share. We just developed a new ski boat! It is the only V-Drive that is certified to pull sanctioned, world record tournaments. In other words, it joins the ranks of the 197. So how have we lost our way again???

Third, we easily spend more money than any other manufacturer on product design for towboats, events and athletes. If we had lost our way, why would we resurrect the Pro Waterski Tour? Why would do the Pro Wakeboard Tour? Why have the largest roster of athletes??? Let me encourage you to step back and look. You will see we have not lost our way.

Finally, we have not lost our way - not even close. What we have done is raise the value of YOUR MC so please accept our apologies. It is not the BMW 1 class that brings value to BMW. It is the 7 series. It is not the Porsche Boxster that brings value to Porsche but the 911 Turbo that is about $160,000. But I bet you don't hear Porshce Boxster owners complaining about Porsche building a Turbo because they know that brings value and credibility to their car. We are doing the same for you by pursuing this growth model.

4) As mentioned, this boat is being built by the best talent in the industry - one of the advantages to this economy for us, even though we have experienced softened sales, is that we are able to snap up some great talent. We have done that and this boat will be the result of that investment. In fact this is the smallest boat this crew we hired has built.

5) When will it be released to the public? At the Miami Boat Show in February. But before then you will see a lot more about this guy so keep checking back at MasterCraft.com to find out how you can learn more about the MC300.

Hopefully that clears this up - if not, I am sure you will let me know in your very non-sarcastic ways. But you guys know by now, I can dish it and take it.



Jason


*****


Is Waketn gonna be banned? That's my only question!

Jim@BAWS
12-10-2008, 04:38 PM
Is Waketn gonna be banned? That's my only question!


NO !!!


"As for the argument, "if we didn't want them posted, we would not let people in the factory" - well that is just asinine. We don't have a secret facility to build boats somewhere. You may not know this but all our new boats are now built on the line with the people who will eventually assemble the boat for production. By involving more people earlier, we streamline the learning curve and can produce new product quicker. So this boat is no different - it is being built on the line so people can learn how to make it. Because of that, there is no way for us to avoid people seeing it. All we could do is ask that people not share the information. Most people did that - a few did not"

SkiDog
12-10-2008, 04:48 PM
Always got to be ONE bad apple in the group!8p

ncsone
12-10-2008, 04:52 PM
You know, this is very similar to what happened with Porsche when they rolled out the Cayenne. Everyone complained that Porsche was no longer going to be a sports car company because they now made a SUV. But, the truth is that Porsche had the lowest profits in the industry (<1%, IIRC) and they could not continue to fund serious R&D. Then, along comes the Cayenne and the margins from that vehicle has significantly boosted their R&D. There are now 3 different sports cars from Porsche, all with unique identities (no more shared headlamps!). Not to mention all of the 'extra' Carrera models we now get to drool over - GT2, GT3, GT3RS, etc.

We can hope that these bigger boats will afford MC even more $ to make new and even better boats.

wakeX2wake
12-10-2008, 05:10 PM
Is Waketn gonna be banned? That's my only question!

not until he posts enough and inadvertently divulges enough information so that MC corporate can hire BriEOD and his group of assassins to have him "taken care of"

Ski-me
12-10-2008, 06:08 PM
I think everything that TMC said is spot on.

If you look at the hard core ski boat sales, they really seem to be dropping. At the same time, the wakeboarding type boat is increasing in popularity (and also more family friendly layouts). Both boats are more specialized though when comparing to the mass market.

When I visit Florida and head out to go fishing, I don't see many Mastercrafts around. Having a small boat in the open water is pretty tough to handle. At the same token, there are SOOOO many other large boats sitting in those marinas. It's no surprise that MC wants to step into that market and already has a reputation in other "niche" markets. I think it really is a great idea personally.

Also, picking up design engineers from Cobalt....good move if the company can afford it. Cobalt is a very well made boat and very strong (based on our 79' Cobalt we had).

I hope this idea on the larger sized boats works for MC....they certainly have the ability to do it.

Holman J.B.F
12-10-2008, 06:15 PM
Is Waketn gonna be banned? That's my only question!

NO!...he did what he thought was right on forums like these...to share info!
I would proberbly done have the same thing out of enthusiasm and regret it later and realise it should be wise to think it over twice.
If this kind of info should not be seen by non team talk members then close the forum for the rest of the globe with a log in to read messages.
If this kind of info should not even been seen by team members,...please change the name without the word TEAM.
Btw it is free advertisment so what is the big deal about it.

As for "has MC lost their way" ,..it is a fast moving motorboat ,..so i would say they are not lost.However we could continue discussing this when they start building X-series with a mast and sail.;)

i realise i,m over reacting..Submit reply...OOpps to late...lol :twocents:

coz
12-10-2008, 06:18 PM
I think everything that TMC said is spot on.

If you look at the hard core ski boat sales, they really seem to be dropping. At the same time, the wakeboarding type boat is increasing in popularity (and also more family friendly layouts). Both boats are more specialized though when comparing to the mass market.

When I visit Florida and head out to go fishing, I don't see many Mastercrafts around. Having a small boat in the open water is pretty tough to handle. At the same token, there are SOOOO many other large boats sitting in those marinas. It's no surprise that MC wants to step into that market and already has a reputation in other "niche" markets. I think it really is a great idea personally.

Also, picking up design engineers from Cobalt....good move if the company can afford it. Cobalt is a very well made boat and very strong (based on our 79' Cobalt we had).

I hope this idea on the larger sized boats works for MC....they certainly have the ability to do it.


I'm with ya Jeff :D and looking foward to seeing it done :headbang:

TMCNo1
12-10-2008, 06:24 PM
I'm with ya Jeff :D and looking foward to seeing it done :headbang:


Could be, they are building the MC300 to house the Museum, Hall of Fame, ProShop and Outlet Center!

coz
12-10-2008, 06:31 PM
Could be, they are building the MC300 to house the Museum, Hall of Fame, ProShop and Outlet Center!

Where they putting the repair department? :confused: there's gonna be broken ballasts :confused: I just have a feeling, I dunno???:rolleyes:

brucemac
12-10-2008, 06:34 PM
that's awesome!

Witness140
12-10-2008, 07:45 PM
When we did the walk-through during fanfare, it was prefaced with "take as many photos as you want, we are proud of this facility. We do ask, however, that you do not post them all over the internet, we don't want to make it that easy for them."

JohnE
12-10-2008, 09:36 PM
If MC didn't want pics of the 300 to sneak out here, they wouldn't let you take them. I took the factory tour in early October and they "asked" us not to post 214V pic's on the web. But even dealers were posting them at the time. And the 300 was mocked up in full display in engineering.

As far as building a boat of this size for it's intended market - why not?????? They still offer the 190. If you want one, buy one. And they continue to offer more to the rest of the market. They haven't forgot their roots. They put as much into the professional watersport industry as anyone, probably more.

Ok, ok, ok. Let's address a few things -

1) Yes we are developing and will soon be producing a 300

2) These pictures were not supposed to be posted but by the time we discovered it, they were on Wakeworld and a few other sites. In fact, I think they hit those sites first. As we have experienced in the past, people who run those boards don't take down content just because we ask. So that is why you did not hear from us on these being posted here.

As for the argument, "if we didn't want them posted, we would not let people in the factory" - well that is just asinine. We don't have a secret facility to build boats somewhere. You may not know this but all our new boats are now built on the line with the people who will eventually assemble the boat for production.

Hopefully that clears this up - if not, I am sure you will let me know in your very non-sarcastic ways. But you guys know by now, I can dish it and take it.



Jason


*****

Jason,

I assume this statement was in response to my comment above.

Sorry, but I don't feel it is asinine. You let the general public in to your facility with camera's. That being the case, you can't be so naive to think that people will refrain from posting pictures on the internet if you ask them not to. I refrained. As have 99% of the tourists. You tour the factory in small groups and the guide can direct them to the locations you want them to see. If you didn't want them to see the 300, I'm confident that you could prevent it.

But let's face it, you're not designing the new Patriot missile. The news leaking isn't a big deal.

But if your dealers are posting pictures that you are asking the general public to refrain from, you might want to reinforce the lines of communications with your dealers. I toured October 8. Norm Krauss asked that we not post anything of the 214V. And one of your dealers had posted pictures on his website a few days earlier.

I maintain that MC must not care if pictures are leaked of their new products if they allow the general public to take any pictures they want in their facility. And I think it is commendable that you are secure in your products and your direction to allow it to happen.

Aside from that, you will notice I didn't bash MC, the direction they are heading, nor what they have accomplished in the past. I'm a loyal customer and fan.

And of course, the above is simply my opinion. I suppose I could be dead balls wrong.

John

TMCNo1
12-10-2008, 09:42 PM
I have the answer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-I0D9ReqI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u-I0D9ReqI)

djhuff
12-11-2008, 07:48 AM
I see a benefit that no one else has mentioned. If these big boats are getting diesels, that can only open the door for R&D for smaller diesel engines to go in our smaller boats.

I do remember on my factory visit, when the R&D dept was housed in a separate building, I had to actually go to my car, and put the camera away before we went in. Inside, I got a look at the CSX 220.

wakeX2wake
12-11-2008, 09:31 AM
good thinking djhuff... but from my understanding a diesel has been an option for a couple of years now just not a cost effective one... or so i read in a magazine...

i think its kind of crazy that MC lets people take pictures while touring... i've been in many world class manufacturing operations and there has NEVER been a case in which the company would allow cameras or even cell phones into the production facility... heck i got patted down before i could tour the briggs and stratton small engine facility... where i work now (we do EMC casting and the rolling mills are full of trade secrets as well) if hourly employees are found w/ a camera phone on their person inside the gates it's disciplinary action...

the only rationale i can figure out about MC allowing pictures is that making boat is a fairly generic process w/ how its done... but MC doesn't make its money in the manufacturing process it makes it through its designs and R&D

Jim@BAWS
12-11-2008, 12:38 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/300/

coz
12-11-2008, 12:57 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/300/

You da man Jim! :headbang: I love it :love:

Chicago190
12-11-2008, 01:21 PM
Any word on whats going to power the 300? Can I get mine with a Powerslot, MCX, and Zero-off?

Jim@BAWS
12-11-2008, 01:51 PM
Any word on whats going to power the 300? Can I get mine with a Powerslot, MCX, and Zero-off?


A bunch of CRIMINALS from Chicago HA HA HA

Twin Diesels

Jim@BAWS

TMC
12-11-2008, 02:01 PM
Any word on whats going to power the 300? Can I get mine with a Powerslot, MCX, and Zero-off?

As it stands now (and this is subject to change), it will come standard with twin 400 HP gas engines. There will be the option to upgrade to Cummins Diesels.

BrianM
12-11-2008, 03:20 PM
There will be the option to upgrade to Cummins Diesels.
:twocents:...:twocents:.....:twocents:....

6ballsisall
12-11-2008, 03:22 PM
:twocents:...:twocents:.....:twocents:....

No worries Brian. Obama will buy us all one 8p

fletch_n_me
12-11-2008, 03:31 PM
Wow - anyone know what the MSRP on that bad boy might be? That is going to powered very well with 800 hp - considering I believe that Sea Ray uses 3.2Ls standard through 32 - don't quote me on that though.

bobx1
12-11-2008, 04:59 PM
Stripped (no electronics, etc.), my guess is $15,499 per foot excluding trailer, freight charge, fuel adjustment up-charge, dealer prep, sales tax, luxury tax, gas guzzler tax, finance bail-out fee, GM bail-out fee, delinquent mortgage default recovery fee, batterys, etc.

SaltwaterMC
12-11-2008, 05:01 PM
You probably aren't too far off...

6ballsisall
12-11-2008, 05:04 PM
I'd be willing to wager you could get one of them into the 250k range. Don't ask how I know;)

RexDog1
12-11-2008, 05:59 PM
don't like it..............:confused:

is this the new wake surffing boat ?:rolleyes:

ProTour X9
12-11-2008, 07:39 PM
http://mastercraft.com/300/
I don't like it, and I'm entitled to my opinion just as MC is entitled to build this boat.
42853

Footin
12-11-2008, 07:45 PM
I think it's great MC is getting into the large boat market. It's all about giving people what they want, making a profit doing it and my favorite manufacturing term "covering fixed overhead".

Witness140
12-11-2008, 08:10 PM
How bout a hybrid ski boat that burns jetskiers? Thats a market that is yet unexplored.

Skipper
12-12-2008, 10:14 AM
I am going to buy one. It has an optional crane to lower my Prostar into the water when we go to port. ;)

wakeX2wake
12-12-2008, 10:21 AM
and all i want is a potato gun tourette mounted to my pickelfork so i can blast wallys and jet skiers who have it coming to them...

Skipper
12-12-2008, 10:26 AM
and all i want is a potato gun tourette mounted to my pickelfork so i can blast wallys and jet skiers who have it coming to them...

It already has four torpedo tubes in the front and two in the back. 8p

wakeX2wake
12-12-2008, 10:34 AM
It already has four torpedo tubes in the front and two in the back. 8p

AND I'VE BEEN MISSING THIS THE WHOLE TIME!?!?!?

ProTour X9
12-12-2008, 05:37 PM
and all i want is a potato gun tourette mounted to my pickelfork so i can blast wallys and jet skiers who have it coming to them...

Now THAT is innovation!

Maybe they could paint it like the boat off of McHales Navy!!

Prostar19
12-12-2008, 05:49 PM
how do you delete a response

Bodyshots
12-16-2008, 03:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNnJ5x9jdKA


Not sure if this has been around the forums yet:D

ttu
12-16-2008, 04:02 PM
very cool.

look forward to seeing some good pics of the completed boat.

Sodar
12-16-2008, 04:04 PM
MasterCraft has devoted a special website to the MasterCraft 300.

The site can be viewed at http://mastercraft.com/300/ .

russlars
12-16-2008, 04:42 PM
MasterCraft has devoted a special website to the MasterCraft 300.

The site can be viewed at http://mastercraft.com/300/ .
Very cool. That thing is a beast! From the pics it looks like it might have teak on the main deck. There you go No 1--more teak to maintain.:D

ProTour X9
12-16-2008, 04:51 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=27997&highlight=Model

TMCNo1
12-16-2008, 05:34 PM
Very cool. That thing is a beast! From the pics it looks like it might have teak on the main deck. There you go No 1--more teak to maintain.:D

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)I'm still looking for the Mastercraft 300 Trailer! I want to see a MasterCraft 300 Trailer with teak on the fenders that match the boat. All I see is about the boat!

Dball
12-16-2008, 05:45 PM
Awsome!!!!!!

JohnnyB
12-16-2008, 08:08 PM
A Mastercraft motor yacht???

ProTour X9
12-16-2008, 09:09 PM
A Mastercraft motor yacht???

Ok, ok, ok. Let's address a few things -

1) Yes we are developing and will soon be producing a 300

2) These pictures were not supposed to be posted but by the time we discovered it, they were on Wakeworld and a few other sites. In fact, I think they hit those sites first. As we have experienced in the past, people who run those boards don't take down content just because we ask. So that is why you did not hear from us on these being posted here.

As for the argument, "if we didn't want them posted, we would not let people in the factory" - well that is just asinine. We don't have a secret facility to build boats somewhere. You may not know this but all our new boats are now built on the line with the people who will eventually assemble the boat for production. By involving more people earlier, we streamline the learning curve and can produce new product quicker. So this boat is no different - it is being built on the line so people can learn how to make it. Because of that, there is no way for us to avoid people seeing it. All we could do is ask that people not share the information. Most people did that - a few did not.

3) As for "has MC lost their way" comments / questions- I really do enjoy the same old questions because that gives me yet another opportunity to repeat the same old answer.

First let me remind you that our company does business as "MasterCraft Boat Company" - not MasterCraft Ski Boat Company, not MasterCraft Wakeboard Boat Company. It is MasterCraft Boat Company. That means any and all viable, reasonable markets are fair game so if the progressive and innovative management of this company sees fit to go after another segment, we will do that. Our mission statement is simple - "MasterCraft strives to deliver to every consumer the ultimate on-water experience by designing and building the world's highest quality, best performing sports luxury boats in every significant niche." But for those that like numbers here you go - the inboard industry only produces about 11,000 customers per year that buy new boats. With the exception of this year, the stern drive market produces 30,000 new boat sales a year (up to 35 footers). So is it really a mystery what we are doing here?

Second, has anyone noticed that we just released the ProStar 214V. If not, please let me share. We just developed a new ski boat! It is the only V-Drive that is certified to pull sanctioned, world record tournaments. In other words, it joins the ranks of the 197. So how have we lost our way again???

Third, we easily spend more money than any other manufacturer on product design for towboats, events and athletes. If we had lost our way, why would we resurrect the Pro Waterski Tour? Why would do the Pro Wakeboard Tour? Why have the largest roster of athletes??? Let me encourage you to step back and look. You will see we have not lost our way.

Finally, we have not lost our way - not even close. What we have done is raise the value of YOUR MC so please accept our apologies. It is not the BMW 1 class that brings value to BMW. It is the 7 series. It is not the Porsche Boxster that brings value to Porsche but the 911 Turbo that is about $160,000. But I bet you don't hear Porshce Boxster owners complaining about Porsche building a Turbo because they know that brings value and credibility to their car. We are doing the same for you by pursuing this growth model.

4) As mentioned, this boat is being built by the best talent in the industry - one of the advantages to this economy for us, even though we have experienced softened sales, is that we are able to snap up some great talent. We have done that and this boat will be the result of that investment. In fact this is the smallest boat this crew we hired has built.

5) When will it be released to the public? At the Miami Boat Show in February. But before then you will see a lot more about this guy so keep checking back at MasterCraft.com to find out how you can learn more about the MC300.

Hopefully that clears this up - if not, I am sure you will let me know in your very non-sarcastic ways. But you guys know by now, I can dish it and take it.



Jason


*****





Yup.......

Jim@BAWS
12-17-2008, 07:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNnJ5x9jdKA


Not sure if this has been around the forums yet:D

That's OLD news around here!

Do you have any photos of the the x-400. That is what everyone really wants to see

HA HA HA

Jim@BAWS

coz
12-17-2008, 08:09 AM
Do you have any photos of the the x-400. That is what everyone really wants to see

HA HA HA

Jim@BAWS

That's old news too Jim :rolleyes:
http://www.liteheli.com/x400.jpg
http://www.liteheli.com/boxweb.gif
8p

Skipper
12-17-2008, 08:44 AM
I heard you can land a real rotory wing aircraft on the new MC X300!?

Jim@BAWS
12-17-2008, 09:36 AM
I heard you can land a real rotory wing aircraft on the new MC X300!?

There are plans for a rotary wing helicopter to be able to land on a raised platform above
the radar arch in the video. When plans are released for the X-800 they should be able to land a fixed wing aircraft on it. It will be long enough...at least thats what I heard

Jim@BAWS

coz
12-17-2008, 10:37 AM
When plans are released for the X-800 they should be able to land a fixed wing aircraft on it. It will be long enough...at least thats what I heard

Jim@BAWS

Spy Pictures :D

Jim@BAWS
12-17-2008, 10:41 AM
Spy Pictures :D


Thats the one !!!


MED BLUE, MELLOW YELLOW AND BLACK

wakeX2wake
12-17-2008, 11:31 AM
sweet surf wake

Justjoe
12-17-2008, 11:34 AM
Aw crap!! Bought a 197 two years ago, and got push back from my girlfriend (now wife) because i "didn't buy a WAKEBOARD boat". Upgraded (wait, maybe just...changed hulls..) to an X2 this fall, and she gets all excited that in two years we are going to get an x-star. Obviously started a dangerous trend. Now she gets to have ANOTHER step in this process. Oh, they're going to hate this boat on the lake that Im on.

ski_king
12-17-2008, 12:32 PM
No big deal.... I have seen bigger MasterCrafts...

click here (http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Mastercraft-Pontoon-Houseboat-1567750/Bullfrog,-Lake-Powell/UT/United-States)

ProTour X9
12-17-2008, 03:47 PM
Thats the one !!!


MED BLUE, MELLOW YELLOW AND BLACK

I think its more sunrise yellow......

Gonzo
12-22-2008, 10:29 PM
Better carry extra guide bouys in the cabin, I think your going to need to replace a few after a run in that thing.... looks great. I look forward to riding in Mikes at CSM ;)

ProTour X9
12-23-2008, 09:00 AM
Better carry extra guide bouys in the cabin, I think your going to need to replace a few after a run in that thing.... looks great. I look forward to riding in Mikes at CSM ;)

Maybe the turn buoys too!:D:D

mc4life123
12-26-2008, 12:58 AM
that boat is the biggest sellout boat ever. i think thats gay that they made that boat, mastercraft needs to stick just to x series and prostars lately their boat are gay especially the csx and this new 300 boat is even gayer

Wake2wake
12-26-2008, 01:21 AM
OK I'm just at a loss for why so many people here hate this boat. i mean, maybe its just me, but i haven't seen a drop in quality or innovation in Mastercrafts new boats. and i really don't think that all of you haters do either. obviously we all think that Mastercraft makes the best boat on the market, or we wouldn't be here on this site.
I personally wont be buying the 300 cause i don't have the money to. but for those who do, more power to you and i hope you enjoy. I hope this new venture works out for the whole company and maybe it will even bring more money in to better the other boats even more!

Kevin&Annie
12-26-2008, 07:18 AM
My sentiments exactly Wake2Wake.

coz
12-26-2008, 07:48 AM
that boat is the biggest sellout boat ever. i think thats gay that they made that boat, mastercraft needs to stick just to x series and prostars lately their boat are gay especially the csx and this new 300 boat is even gayer

This coming from the 2008 winner of the L.A. Drag races :confused:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/2927032450_a2d85d6fd0_o.jpg

I'm pretty sure you can find this guy sitting at the dock looking for riders :confused:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2278/2361182621_29e6f295ca_o.jpg

I truly had no idea boats could be gay, I'm more than sure mines straight though.

TMCNo1
12-26-2008, 11:45 AM
that boat is the biggest sellout boat ever. i think thats gay that they made that boat, mastercraft needs to stick just to x series and prostars lately their boat are gay especially the csx and this new 300 boat is even gayer

Good way to get off to a good start on Team Talk!
When you take delivery of your new MC 300, don't forget to dress appropriately!
43250

badams
01-07-2009, 09:29 AM
Has anyone seen the 300 in person yet? I'd love to see some pics.

BrianM
01-07-2009, 03:16 PM
maybe its just me, but i haven't seen a drop in quality or innovation in Mastercrafts new boats. !

Where is the innovation in the new 190/197? That boat basically hasn't changed in 7 years now. Maybe its just me :confused:

6ballsisall
01-07-2009, 03:18 PM
Where is the innovation in the new 190/197? That boat basically hasn't changed in 7 years now. Maybe its just me :confused:

Well I did hear there is an Orange one in Chicago that is "special"

corey
01-07-2009, 03:44 PM
From what I've heard the 190 and 197 suffer from a problem of success. They are still setting records and so it's hard to justify change just for the sake of change.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-07-2009, 04:46 PM
From what I've heard the 190 and 197 suffer from a problem of success. They are still setting records and so it's hard to justify change just for the sake of change.

Well said Corey!

BrianM
01-07-2009, 05:05 PM
From what I've heard the 190 and 197 suffer from a problem of success. They are still setting records and so it's hard to justify change just for the sake of change.

There may still be records being set behind the boat but "hard to justify change just for the sake of change?" :confused: How about the fact that the 190/197 is slow and heavy as compared to the other tournament boats out there? Improve the handling. The wake is good but it sure isn't perfect. Improve the wake for slower speeds and longer line lengths without sacrificing short line performance. Now that would be innovation.:cool:

ncsone
01-07-2009, 05:16 PM
I still say that the next PS190/197 will have a pickle fork bow. I do not know this, but it is the way the company is going. Could be an interesting look...

Monte
01-07-2009, 05:26 PM
I still say that the next PS190/197 will have a pickle fork bow. I do not know this, but it is the way the company is going. Could be an interesting look...

I wonder how many people just puked after reading that statement:rolleyes:

TX.X-30 fan
01-07-2009, 06:05 PM
I wonder how many people just puked after reading that statement:rolleyes:




Be cool and a tower standard....................... Right Shep. :D

ProTour X9
01-07-2009, 06:09 PM
My friends dad is prolly gonna sell his 190 for a Malibu because of the wake, how about that.

SkiDog
01-07-2009, 07:12 PM
My friends dad is prolly gonna sell his 190 for a Malibu because of the wake, how about that.

You can't fix stupid!

sand2snow22
01-07-2009, 07:44 PM
You can't fix stupid!

X 2. I remember this one guy who went from a MC to a Wakecraft? ;)

ProTour X9
01-07-2009, 08:39 PM
You can't fix stupid!

He's an awesome barefooter, footed w/ KSO.

east tx skier
01-07-2009, 10:28 PM
Improve the wake for slower speeds and longer line lengths without sacrificing short line performance. Now that would be innovation.:cool:

Now you're talkin'! Make a boat that sets world records and absolute perfection for the high drag 15 offer, i.e. approximately 85% of the skiers out there.

PaulW
01-08-2009, 05:03 PM
Well I did hear there is an Orange one in Chicago that is "special"

These guys are relentless on the forum, Eric is never going to live that one down.

The last time I saw that one was at the previous Mag Mania, Eric you still have that pretty Orange one?:(

TMCNo1
01-31-2009, 12:23 PM
The bad link posted here, hhttp://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk, can be found here, http://mastercraft.com/300/ and look in the gallery for a few addition pictures just added!

badams
01-31-2009, 06:19 PM
Ok. After seeing the pictures of the model they are getting ready to unveil at the Miami Boat Show I can't understand why they chose a silver metal flake gel coat. If they are really wanting to get into the high end cruiser type boat I don't think a "fishing boat" paint job is really the best choice.

JohnE
01-31-2009, 06:37 PM
Ok. After seeing the pictures of the model they are getting ready to unveil at the Miami Boat Show I can't understand why they chose a silver metal flake gel coat. If they are really wanting to get into the high end cruiser type boat I don't think a "fishing boat" paint job is really the best choice.

For the record, is the flake the only aspect you disapprove of?

badams
01-31-2009, 06:55 PM
For the record, is the flake the only aspect you disapprove of?

Absolutely. I think the rest of the boat is incredible. I spoke with a sales rep at the KC/OP Boat Show last weekend that said the interior was amazing. Because of the pickle fork the birth is enourmous. I can't wait to see it.

TX.X-30 fan
01-31-2009, 07:12 PM
For the record, is the flake the only aspect you disapprove of?



Don't get testy there Bill Dance. :D

TMCNo1
01-31-2009, 08:02 PM
Ok. After seeing the pictures of the model they are getting ready to unveil at the Miami Boat Show I can't understand why they chose a silver metal flake gel coat. If they are really wanting to get into the high end cruiser type boat I don't think a "fishing boat" paint job is really the best choice.


Maybe the second MC300 built will have a color scheme that favors a Bayliner!

Sodar
01-31-2009, 08:18 PM
My mouth is shut on this whole thing. I hope it turns out the way MC wants it to. :o

WakePowell
02-01-2009, 08:37 AM
Is that a yellow pickle fork prostar in the background of the first picture of the boat being launched?

Sodar
02-01-2009, 09:43 AM
Is that a yellow pickle fork prostar in the background of the first picture of the boat being launched?

It is a MariStar 200 with a tower.

badams
02-01-2009, 03:06 PM
My mouth is shut on this whole thing. I hope it turns out the way MC wants it to. :o

I think it should. MC builds an amazing high quality boat. I just think for the introduction of this boat they should have stuck with something a little more mainstream. I know some people are going to say that going for something outside the norm is a good thing. But when you are trying to get the buying public to warm up to your new $250,000 boat in a market you have never played in sometimes being outside the norm isn't the best approach.

jdl xstar
06-16-2009, 10:09 AM
I was just looking at some old pictures from the miami boat show and thought i'd share this pic of the twin MC deisels on the 300. These things are sweet. Anyone seen a 300 yet out on the water?

48444

48445

Kingsley X-1
06-16-2009, 02:56 PM
does anyone know how many of these MC has sold?

Tobaccoman
06-17-2009, 12:23 PM
Ok guys It is time to face the music. I own a 1989 Prostar 190 and love the boat. If MC was only building the 190 they would be out of buisiness. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they only build less than 100 190's a year now. The newer boats have so much more to offer than the 190. Mc has to change with the times in order to stay #1 in the boat industry. I have a good friend that has owned several Malibu boats and just sold his 08 wakesetter. He purchased a 2000 MC 205 and told me that the boat handled 10 times better than the Malibu. If you want a 190 then buy a 190. If you want an X series then buy that. I'm not crazy about the 300 but it is out of my price range as is the new X Star which is what I would love to have. The younger generation is into wakeboarding and surfing not slalom skiing. I think we should cut MC a little slack because they build the world's best boats and will continue to do so. Just my 2 cents worth.

Prostar19
06-17-2009, 12:40 PM
NICE Tobaccoman!!!!!!!!!!

MC buit 33 190's in 2008 and 25 in 2009.

Tobaccoman
06-17-2009, 03:10 PM
Wow, That is lees than I thought. If you will look around on your local lakes and rivers you hardly ever see anyone on a slalom ski.