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RWB_XSTAR
11-28-2008, 09:37 PM
I just picked-up a '04 XSTAR and have nothing to tow this bad boy with. So, here is the question. Will this 1994 Chevy Silverado 1/2Ton 2WD with a 350 pull it?

Now I know it is not ideal, but will it work with perhaps some helper springs? My worry would be the ramp with the 2WD and short wheel base. Thoughts?

The hitch says:

Max Weight Tow - Distributing: 8,500lbs
Max Weight Tongue - Distributing: 1,000lbs

TMCNo1
11-28-2008, 10:12 PM
With a dry weight (less gear) of 4250 lbs.and 1240 lbs trailer weight and a approx. tongue weight of 200lbs., the truck should be well within the ability to tow the X-Star. With a vehicle of that age, it will be in your best interest to assure the truck is tuned properly, the transmission and differential has or will be serviced soon and the brakes are in good shape. Hopefully, the towing package installed was a factory one and the truck is properly equipped with the proper equipment (HD transmission fluid cooler, engine oil cooler, posi-traction differential, gear ratio, etc.) to carry the load the hitch indicates. Reviewing the owners manual and the original paperwork for the truck if you have them may assist you in determining that.

RWB_XSTAR
11-28-2008, 11:11 PM
Unfortunatlly the truck does not have a posi-traction rear end. Everythinig else is in great shape...it's may dads old truck that he never really drives. Only has 107k miles on it.

bigmac
11-28-2008, 11:48 PM
Traction could be an issue with a heavy boat on a slippery boat ramp without 4wd or any kind of locking differential.

As to the truck's towing capacity...it should be quite capable of towing an X-Star BUT...Harold's right, towing it any distance will definitely need a transmission cooler.

As to the hitch, note that those limits don't apply to your situation unless you are using a weight-distributing hitch. Without that, you're going to be limited to a lot less, probably at most 500 lbs tongue weight and 5000 lbs trailer weight with that particular hitch.

Overload springs etc only change the ride height...they do nothing to redistribute the weight.

scramison
11-29-2008, 04:53 AM
My friend had that same truck and we towed a 1997 ski centurion. It handled it fine but your boat is probably an extra 1k pounds atleast. I will say his 99 tahoe did a little better. I would suggest getting two new rear tires with good wet traction, atleast!

Most tire manufactures will list on their website wet dry highway etc. ratings.

coz
11-29-2008, 07:53 AM
By the way congrats on the new ride :headbang:

snakeoil
11-29-2008, 09:53 AM
I would not tow with anything less that a 3/4 ton diesel, hey that's just me.

PendO
11-29-2008, 10:30 AM
what is the rating for non weight-distributing

(get a 3/4 ton truck if you plan to tow a bunch .. IMpO)

vision
11-29-2008, 12:14 PM
I tow an 08 X-star with a 1/2 ton 4WD V6. No problems. It really depends on what percentage of the truck's miles will be spent towing versus commuting and light duty hauling.

I second the concern that the Silverado will not have the traction to pull the boat out of a steep ramp.

Does the hitch say rated for 8500 lbs or the truck (i.e. is there a tow rating stamp in the in the door frame or some where else)?

kmillard92
11-29-2008, 12:20 PM
Does the hitch say rated for 8500 lbs or the truck (i.e. is there a tow rating stamp in the in the door frame or some where else)?

This is what you really need to be looking for...just because the hitch says it can carry a certain, dosent mean your truck can handle it.

Covi
11-29-2008, 01:38 PM
I would not tow with anything less that a 3/4 ton diesel, hey that's just me.

Dude come on. You can't be serious?

snakeoil
11-29-2008, 02:03 PM
Dude come on. You can't be serious?



I like the security of a truck that is well suited for the task at hand. Also my family is in the car so I believe taking undue risk is not an option.

In my opinion with some experience a 1/2 ton truck in not an option when towing a large heavy boat 70 mph down the freeway. The boat is so heavy it will be in charge. This is my opinion and you obviously disagree??

Lets put it this way, there are two trucks and you have the keys to both. Will you tow with the 1/2 ton gasser or opt for the 3/4 ton diesel. I would not ponder that decision very long as I feel most wouldn't.

Covi
11-29-2008, 03:33 PM
RWB X-Star, here is my tow rig. Sort of like your but it does have 4 x 4. if it's luck I've only had to use 4 wheel drive once while pulling my boat out of the water. It pulls my boat down the road like it's nothing. Similar tow specs as yours.

I've included the ramp that required 4 wheel drive. Sure it was a little tricky but love the challenge. Covi 1 / boat ramp 0. We had a great day that day!

I just picked-up a '04 XSTAR and have nothing to tow this bad boy with. So, here is the question. Will this 1994 Chevy Silverado 1/2Ton 2WD with a 350 pull it?

Now I know it is not ideal, but will it work with perhaps some helper springs? My worry would be the ramp with the 2WD and short wheel base. Thoughts?

The hitch says:

Max Weight Tow - Distributing: 8,500lbs
Max Weight Tongue - Distributing: 1,000lbs

JohnE
11-29-2008, 04:52 PM
Snakeoil obviously doesn't have a clue. I tow my 214 900 miles to NC regulary with my 1/2 ton Avalanche.

A diesel? Really?

snakeoil
11-29-2008, 05:07 PM
Snakeoil obviously doesn't have a clue. I tow my 214 900 miles to NC regulary with my 1/2 ton Avalanche.

A diesel? Really?



I beg your pardon Sir, I do know a thing or two about towing!! No offence but are you talking about towing dads boat with dads truck??

snakeoil
11-29-2008, 05:11 PM
RWB X-Star, here is my tow rig. Sort of like your but it does have 4 x 4. if it's luck I've only had to use 4 wheel drive once while pulling my boat out of the water. It pulls my boat down the road like it's nothing. Similar tow specs as yours.

I've included the ramp that required 4 wheel drive. Sure it was a little tricky but love the challenge. Covi 1 / boat ramp 0. We had a great day that day!





Sorry that's apples to oranges, and yes I would have no issue towing your PS with a 1/2 ton 6 banger.

bigmac
11-29-2008, 05:15 PM
Lets put it this way, there are two trucks and you have the keys to both. Will you tow with the 1/2 ton gasser or opt for the 3/4 ton diesel. I would not ponder that decision very long as I feel most wouldn't.


You mean I own both trucks? Then sure, I'd use the 3/4 ton for towing the boat. But I'd use the 1/2 ton for everything else. If I'm only going to own one truck, it will be the 1/2 ton gasser because IT will tow that boat just fine, with complete safety, and I'd see the 3/4 ton as a pointless waste of money and fuel for the 90% of the time when I'm NOT towing a 6000 lb boat.

But hey, that's just me...;)

snakeoil
11-29-2008, 05:16 PM
What is that Covi I mean year prostar, very sweet boat.

PendO
11-29-2008, 05:22 PM
It must be winter ... again ...

No freakin' way a 1/2 ton V6 gas engine truck is rated to safely tow and safely stop with an X-Star

As far as the 1/2 ton V8 2wd truck ... ditto what big mac and harold said ... also, I am betting you have a 3.42 rear end?

PendO
11-29-2008, 05:25 PM
You mean I own both trucks? Then sure, I'd use the 3/4 ton for towing the boat. But I'd use the 1/2 ton for everything else. If I'm only going to own one truck, it will be the 1/2 ton gasser because IT will tow that boat just fine, with complete safety, and I'd see the 3/4 ton as a pointless waste of money and fuel for the 90% of the time when I'm NOT towing a 6000 lb boat.

But hey, that's just me...;)

C'mon, your a surgeon ... "waste of money" cannot really be something you really have to be concerned about:)

snakeoil
11-29-2008, 05:26 PM
You mean I own both trucks? Then sure, I'd use the 3/4 ton for towing the boat. But I'd use the 1/2 ton for everything else. If I'm only going to own one truck, it will be the 1/2 ton gasser because IT will tow that boat just fine, with complete safety, and I'd see the 3/4 ton as a pointless waste of money and fuel for the 90% of the time when I'm NOT towing a 6000 lb boat.

But hey, that's just me...;)



I see what your saying for grocery shopping getting a few bags of mulch for your garden as such the 1/2 ton will perform reasonably well in those limited situations.

On the other hand if you tow much and especially these bloated wake boats the 1/2 ton truck will be worn smooth out very fast. As far as fuel economy not much difference.

The 1/2 ton as you say will tow the boat fine in some instances, what I like about the bigger truck is that in the event of a problem it has the ability to handle the situation.

JohnE
11-29-2008, 05:43 PM
I beg your pardon Sir, I do know a thing or two about towing!! No offence but are you talking about towing dads boat with dads truck??


I'm sure you know plenty about towing. And I agree, bigger is better with towing. Period. I may actually put a hitch on my 1 ton diesel sprinter. But the avalanche is fine for the 214. And the Avalanche is as far from Dad's truck as the 214 is from Dad's boat.

Covi
11-29-2008, 06:01 PM
Thanks, it's an 86' vintage. I work hard keeping it nice.

By the way the dodge has 345 hp Hemi. It's a towing machine. In fact I towed that boat 2 years ago from Glennie Michigan to Burlington Vt. Speeds averaging 75 - 80 mph through Canada. Never once looked back. That's a lie. I never took my eye off it. LOL


What is that Covi I mean year prostar, very sweet boat.

snakeoil
11-29-2008, 06:30 PM
Very nice boat Covi and your truck has close to the hp of my duramax just obviously not the torque. lol.

Covi
11-29-2008, 06:39 PM
Thanks again!

JohnE
11-29-2008, 06:50 PM
Back to the OP. How far do you plan to tow? Clearly 10, 20, or 30 miles is much different than a couple hundred or more.........

vision
11-29-2008, 09:18 PM
It must be winter ... again ...

No freakin' way a 1/2 ton V6 gas engine truck is rated to safely tow and safely stop with an X-Star


I do not know about Chevy trucks and their V6s, but there are V6s rated to pull over 6000lbs safely. I own one and it does an great job of pulling my X-star. However, I admit that the heavier the tow vehicle, the less influence the trailer and boat have on the vehicle handling. But, it boils down to how often do you use the vehicle for towing 6000lbs versus hauling a few hundred pounds in people or junk. If money and green house gases were no concern, then I would certainly own a large diesel that I would use only for towing. But reality raises its ugly head and forces me to have only 1 truck.

brianpt
11-30-2008, 01:27 AM
i have silvarado 07 5.3 w/fuel management 4x4 extended cab tow x1 traylor surge brake and traylor stabilite no problem pulling if wastn for the higher rpm wouldnt even notice the boat behind me

bigmac
11-30-2008, 09:35 AM
I see what your saying for grocery shopping getting a few bags of mulch for your garden as such the 1/2 ton will perform reasonably well in those limited situations.

On the other hand if you tow much and especially these bloated wake boats the 1/2 ton truck will be worn smooth out very fast. As far as fuel economy not much difference.

The 1/2 ton as you say will tow the boat fine in some instances, what I like about the bigger truck is that in the event of a problem it has the ability to handle the situation.

I think I understand the confusion. You might be talking a bout a 3/4 ton Dodge...which is (according to most automotive experts) comparable to a 1/2 ton GM truck.

:D

Jerseydave
11-30-2008, 09:53 AM
RWB Xstar,

Most factory hitches have a spec of 500 lbs tongue weight/ 5000 lbs. trailer weight without a weight dist. hitch. Look for those numbers stamped on yours.

For extra safety, I installed a Draw-tite 1000 lb. / 10,000 lb. hitch on my suburban.

Best (and cheapest) way to add some weight capacity to your truck is to install Timbren helpers. www.timbren.com
Heavier springs would be good too, but more $$. Stay away from air shocks and coil-over shocks, because the springs should carry the weight not the shocks.

Rear tires, I run Bridgestone Dueler A/T's, great wear and traction. You could also change to a posi-rear but unless the ramp is really steep you should be okay.
Good advise on the trans cooler, get one for sure.

And post some pics on that X-STAR! CONGRATS!

airdrew99
11-30-2008, 10:10 AM
RWB Xstar,
What kind of mileage are you getting from your 1994 Chevy 1/2 ton? I have a '00 F-250 7.3L powerstroke diesel (with automatic transmission & 4X4) and I get 17 mpg, city and highway. It is nice to have the power when needed, and still get decent mileage. My '95 F-150 I had only got around 14 mpg (and that was with the 300 c.i. straight 6). Some of the 3/4 ton diesels today are getting pretty good mileage. Just my opinion.

Drew

bigmac
11-30-2008, 10:31 AM
There is a lot of misunderstanding about hitch platforms. The difference between a class III and class IV hitch is pretty much pointless. Even the factory hitches that are spec'd at 500/5000 (class III) still have 10,000 ratings in weight-distributing mode. What that tells you is that the hitch isn't going to fall apart, the attaching bolts aren't going to shear, etc. The added safety that a class IV hitch gives is mostly an illusion. I have yet to see or hear of a trailering accident that was caused by a class III vs class IV hitch failure. The problem with overloading a vehicle by towing something is the towed item being so heavy that it causes loss of control. It's not that there will be a mechanical failure like the hitch platform falling off.

And again, the weight capacity of a towing system has everything to do with how the vehicle distributes the weight of the system, not how much the rear end sags. Adding heavier springs, overload springs, air shocks etc does nothing to change weight distribution. All it does is change the cosmetics, keeping you vehicle from looking silly with its rear bumper dragging on the ground. The limiting factor in a vehicle's towing capacity is its ability to brake well with all four wheels and steer safely. There has to be enough weight on the front of the vehicle to keep the system from developing sway-induced steering moment that can lead to loss of control of the vehicle. Bigger hitch platforms have nothing to do with that, nor do overload springs.

snakeoil
11-30-2008, 12:12 PM
There is a lot of misunderstanding about hitch platforms. The difference between a class III and class IV hitch is pretty much pointless. Even the factory hitches that are spec'd at 500/5000 (class III) still have 10,000 ratings in weight-distributing mode. What that tells you is that the hitch isn't going to fall apart, the attaching bolts aren't going to shear, etc. The added safety that a class IV hitch gives is mostly an illusion. I have yet to see or hear of a trailering accident that was caused by a class III vs class IV hitch failure. The problem with overloading a vehicle by towing something is the towed item being so heavy that it causes loss of control. It's not that there will be a mechanical failure like the hitch platform falling off.

And again, the weight capacity of a towing system has everything to do with how the vehicle distributes the weight of the system, not how much the rear end sags. Adding heavier springs, overload springs, air shocks etc does nothing to change weight distribution. All it does is change the cosmetics, keeping you vehicle from looking silly with its rear bumper dragging on the ground. The limiting factor in a vehicle's towing capacity is its ability to brake well with all four wheels and steer safely. There has to be enough weight on the front of the vehicle to keep the system from developing sway-induced steering moment that can lead to loss of control of the vehicle. Bigger hitch platforms have nothing to do with that, nor do overload springs.




So I read into this that 1/2 ton trucks are good with small trailers, jetskis, snnowmobiles, and such but when it comes to hauling a big wake boat go 3/4 ton or don't go at all.

bigmac
11-30-2008, 12:14 PM
So I read into this that 1/2 ton trucks are good with small trailers, jetskis, snnowmobiles, and such but when it comes to hauling a big wake boat go 3/4 ton or don't go at all.

With Dodge trucks, yes...that's probably true.

TOO-TALL
11-30-2008, 12:44 PM
I just picked-up a '04 XSTAR and have nothing to tow this bad boy with. So, here is the question. Will this 1994 Chevy Silverado 1/2Ton 2WD with a 350 pull it?

Now I know it is not ideal, but will it work with perhaps some helper springs? My worry would be the ramp with the 2WD and short wheel base. Thoughts?

The hitch says:

Max Weight Tow - Distributing: 8,500lbs
Max Weight Tongue - Distributing: 1,000lbs

I see a few problems with this truck pulling a X-star......keep in mind the size of a X-star.
1--Pulling the boat up a wet ramp.Being 2wd you might need to use the X-star to push the truck up the ramp.I had to do this with my 03 X-2 when my front wheels would not engage at the ramp(a whole differant topic).
2--Towing down the highway.This truck will pull the X-star down the highway But, any up -hill grade the truck will struggle.And any down hill grade the boat will push the truck.

I don't know how far you live from the local ramp or how steep it is.If you plan on traliering the boat alot to vacation, road trips ect,ect, all things to consider.

Just my .02

bigmac
11-30-2008, 12:53 PM
With Dodge trucks, yes...that's probably true.

OK, just joking around. Dodge trucks are probably OK as tow vehicles.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how you got that information out of what I posted. A 1/2 ton pickup is plenty big enough to safely and efficiently pull an X-Star.

IOW, I'm saying that there is "big enough" and "bigger than necessary". In the latter category, one could read that as "pointless waste of money in a vehicle that spends 10% of it's mileage towing something".

Jabrew
11-30-2008, 12:59 PM
I tow a 05 Maristar 245ss with a Tacoma 06 4.0. While it is not ideal it does the job. As for the ramp never had any issues.That silverado is more than sufficient.

snakeoil
11-30-2008, 02:46 PM
OK, just joking around. Dodge trucks are probably OK as tow vehicles.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how you got that information out of what I posted. A 1/2 ton pickup is plenty big enough to safely and efficiently pull an X-Star.

IOW, I'm saying that there is "big enough" and "bigger than necessary". In the latter category, one could read that as "pointless waste of money in a vehicle that spends 10% of it's mileage towing something".




I will agree with you on the dodge. On paper it should be able to tow.

I think the 1/2 ton is pushing it towing 7,000lbs the frames are just not stiff enough. Local terrain would play a role in the equation.

(I'm saying that there is "big enough" and "bigger than necessary) I will have to confer with my wife on this one.

Chicago190
11-30-2008, 02:49 PM
I will agree with you on the dodge. On paper it should be able to tow.

I think the 1/2 ton is pushing it towing 7,000lbs the frames are just not stiff enough. Local terrain would play a role in the equation.

(I'm saying that there is "big enough" and "bigger than necessary) I will have to confer with my wife on this one.

What X-Star weighs 7000 lbs? Empty your ballast before you tow it...

snakeoil
11-30-2008, 03:01 PM
What X-Star weighs 7000 lbs? Empty your ballast before you tow it...




Xstar................ 4,000 +

Trailer................2,000

Fuel&gear........... 1,000


Am I far off ?????

Chicago190
11-30-2008, 03:05 PM
Xstar................ 4,000 +

Trailer................2,000

Fuel&gear........... 1,000


Am I far off ?????

Yeah the trailer is just over 1000 lbs, and you really bring 1000 lbs. of gear with you? What is that like 200 cases of beer?

5500, maybe 6000 with it fully loaded with fuel and enough supplies to last a month.

snakeoil
11-30-2008, 03:18 PM
Yeah the trailer is just over 1000 lbs, and you really bring 1000 lbs. of gear with you? What is that like 200 cases of beer?

5500, maybe 6000 with it fully loaded with fuel and enough supplies to last a month.



I try to have a sufficient supply of adult beverages. The new Xes weigh about 4500 right?. 500lbs fuel 1200 trailer, now add for beer and gear.

Chicago190
11-30-2008, 03:20 PM
I try to have a sufficient supply of adult beverages. The new Xes weigh about 4500 right?. 500lbs fuel 1200 trailer, now add for beer and gear.

I think its 4200ish dry, 1200 trailer, gas is only 6 lbs. a gallon so its not possible to have 500 lbs. of fuel in an X-star because it has a 50 gallon tank.

snakeoil
11-30-2008, 03:23 PM
I think its 4200ish dry, 1200 trailer, gas is only 6 lbs. a gallon so its not possible to have 500 lbs. of fuel in an X-star because it has a 50 gallon tank.





Oh I was thinking premium.

vision
11-30-2008, 04:45 PM
2008 X-star on trailer with 1/2 tank of gas was 5600 lbs as weighed by the vehicle scale at our local stone yard. They say it is accurate to 10 lbs. That is unhooked from the truck. No lead, no ballast, a few life jackets and wake boards.

snakeoil
11-30-2008, 05:00 PM
Thanks vision.

PendO
11-30-2008, 05:01 PM
just found a 4-wheeler online that will handle my 197 ... think I'm gonna pull the trigger and save some fuel ... just have to make sure it has the correct wiring harness

canadianskier
11-30-2008, 05:36 PM
ok here is my 2cents worth, I have a `92 prostar alot lighter but itow with an `97 ford f150 2wd. My lake of choice as a very steep ramp, with most fords you can put the tranny in 2nd gear and the truck will start off in second gear and get torque converter slippage to pull out slowly with no tire spin. ford designd the tranny for this reason. but if you leave it in D or 1st you will have a hard time pulling anything up a steep ramp, just tire spin. I only tow 30min flat road, but once a yea I go up north 5hour drive up some reall big long hills, I drop it down a gear and go up the hil at about 35mph in the slow lane. factory tow package with cooler. you can tow with that truck but be carfull on the road. that being said iam looking at a newer 4x4 just so I can go to some lakes without a proper boat ramp

TMCNo1
11-30-2008, 06:19 PM
2008 X-star on trailer with 1/2 tank of gas was 5600 lbs as weighed by the vehicle scale at our local stone yard. They say it is accurate to 10 lbs. That is unhooked from the truck. No lead, no ballast, a few life jackets and wake boards.

Like I posted earlier from the 2004 owners manual, http://www.mastercraft.com/files/manuals/2004_MasterCraft_Owners_Manual.pdf, a dry weight (less gear) of 4250 lbs.and 1240 lbs trailer weight = 5490 lbs., that's close enough with your additional gasoline.

RWB_XSTAR
11-30-2008, 07:08 PM
Thanks for all the info! I agree that a bigger truck would be the way to go, but I'm just trying to work with what I got at the moment till I figure out another option. I guess I have the winter to mess around with the set-up and look for deals on some trucks/suv's.

Oh and I will be towing between 3 lakes. One is about 20min, another 25min, and Norris which is about 35 to 45min.

One last question...the numbers I listed that were on the hitch where listed under weight distributing, which lead me to assume it is a weight distributing hitch or that is just how they list it. It also gives dead weight numbers as well. See Pic:

Here is a picture of the new boat as well!!!

JohnE
11-30-2008, 07:13 PM
How far do you plan to tow?

T Scott
11-30-2008, 07:37 PM
Why not look at a 4x4 Suburban of that vintage? I see them all the time in Auto Trader for around $3000 to $4000

bigmac
11-30-2008, 07:38 PM
Thanks for all the info! I agree that a bigger truck would be the way to go, but I'm just trying to work with what I got at the moment till I figure out another option. I guess I have the winter to mess around with the set-up and look for deals on some trucks/suv's.

One last question...the numbers I listed that were on the hitch where listed under weight distributing, which lead me to assume it is a weight distributing hitch or that is just how they list it. It also gives dead weight numbers as well. See Pic:

Here is a picture of the new boat as well!!!

Nice boat!

No, a weight distributing hitch doesn't have anything to do with the hitch platform and the way it attaches to your truck, it has to do with how the trailer is attached to the hitch. If you just plop the boat on the ball, that's weight-carrying mode (AKA "dead weight" mode).

Weight-distributing hitch......... (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/equipment/hitches/towing-weight-distribution-systems.htm)

For you to be able to use that placard and the 1000/8500 weights that it states, you'd have to also buy and attach a single-pole weight distributing hitch so that it will work with your surge brakes, like Hrkdriver did to tow his X45 with his Excursion, which is 500/5000 without the WD hitch. Your vehicle's towing limits without this setup are 400 lbs tongue weight and 4000 lbs trailer weight, but would be 1000 lb tongue weight and 8500 lbs gross trailer weight WITH the WD setup like in the picture below.

wakeX2wake
12-01-2008, 10:11 AM
i'd say pull it a few times and if you feel uncomfortable then figure something else out... i'm betting you're going to pull that thing... what i'd be more mindful of if i were you would be those straight pipes right out the back...

good friend of mine though it'd be a good idea to put his custom exhaust on his 2500 HD stright out the back and he figured out really quick that the front of his yellow supra was just going to have to stay dirty until he got the exhaust changed to and out the side set-up... i know your boat is black but trust me... you'll see it... wax wax wax

Muttley
12-01-2008, 11:13 AM
Dude, your truck will be fine. If I can pull my PS205 with my '96 Sierra 1/2 ton with a 305 in it, your 350 will pull it like it's not even there. It's vertually the same truck as yours. I go through the mountains and there's only a few hills where I slow down.

Heavier springs help? Sure. A 3/4 ton with a diesel? You bet. A 4X4 for slippery ramps? No arguement there. In the meantime your truck will do nicely.

bigmac
12-01-2008, 11:40 AM
Overloading the towing capacity isn't about the engine, nor is it about the transmission, it's about safety....adequate braking, safe handling. The overall weight of the trailer (GTW) is important to engine and transmission, but 10% of that GTW is going to be tongue weight, and too much tongue weight will lead to unsafe handling. Everybody always wants to make it about ride height, class III vs class IV hitch, and strain on transmission and engine. It's really about trailer sway due to maldistribution of weight of the vehicle.

No thread on towing would be complete without this picture. This is a guy who thought it would be OK to tow this big boat outside the towing envelope of his pickup truck, just like many of you are advocating that RWB_XSTAR do. This driver developed trailer sway, lost control....etc etc etc. The picture is self explanatory. As you can see, the integrity of his trailer hitch and its capacity wasn't an issue.

http://www.synthx.com/articles/trailerhitch.jpg

PendO
12-01-2008, 11:44 AM
big mac ... I think you are cheating ... I believe you are cutting and pasting from towing threads from last winter, and the winter before that ... :)

bigmac
12-01-2008, 01:07 PM
big mac ... I think you are cheating ... I believe you are cutting and pasting from towing threads from last winter, and the winter before that ... :)LOL. Please take notes...you will see this material again.

Sodar
12-01-2008, 01:26 PM
If I trade in my Tahoe for a Yugo, will still tow my boat?

Sodar
12-01-2008, 01:30 PM
Without getting into an argument, if a weight distributing hitch is needed, I think MC needs to dolly this contraption up a bit. I am sure it saves lives and makes towing more pleasurable, but this black bolt on mechanism is UGLY!

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=42597&stc=1&d=1228091887

ttu
12-01-2008, 01:33 PM
If I trade in my Tahoe for a Yugo, will still tow my boat?

is this the one you are looking at?

Sodar
12-01-2008, 01:42 PM
is this the one you are looking at?

Similar, but less the safari rack. I did not want that option, because the wind resistance has a potential of stopping the Yugo in its tracks.

bigmac
12-01-2008, 02:16 PM
Without getting into an argument, if a weight distributing hitch is needed, I think MC needs to dolly this contraption up a bit. I am sure it saves lives and makes towing more pleasurable, but this black bolt on mechanism is UGLY!




No argument is necessary. The stuff I am proposing is all a matter of basic physics and automotive engineering. It's not new, it's not even radical. It just is. I don't make this stuff up.

No doubt many, maybe even most of us, tow beyond the safe limits of our vehicles all the time without any adverse effects -- no crashes or other problems. Most people get away with it most of the time. Maybe that's good enough. Weight distributing hitches are indeed cumbersome and expensive (and ugly). I don't use one for my boat, but my boat is 5000 lbs on the road and that is within the weight-carrying hitch capacity of my vehicle (I do use a WD hitch with my 7000+ lb horse trailer). For the OP, he's talking about exceeding the dead-weight hitch capacity of his vehicle by 1500 lbs. Probably he can get away with that. Personally, I wouldn't like the odds, but it's highly unlikely that any misadventure that befalls him will affect me or my family in any way. I wish him well, and safe traveling for him, his passengers, the other drivers he faces, and his expensive boat. But as we do here on TeamTalk, I post this stuff to answer his question. I have no other axe to grind.

bobx1
12-01-2008, 06:47 PM
How come most posts like this never include data and very few opinions on stopping statistics (and not just this thread or site)?

If you have a slippery ramp and wheel spin then it is obivous you may need 4wd.

If the hitch and truck data indicates inadequacies then that is that is obvious.

If your 4 banger has trouble going up hills then that is obvious.

If you are constantly overheating your engine or wearing out brakes or replacing transmissions then that is obvious.

On undersized vehicles, what really scares me is the fact that at 50mph or greater, then XStar is in control and not the tow vehicle. When this happens, you hurt your boat, tow vehicle, yourself and the person(s) you are trying to avoid.

I am not an expert but stopping capabilities should be first on the list of stats (IMO).

TMCNo1
12-01-2008, 06:52 PM
Without getting into an argument, if a weight distributing hitch is needed, I think MC needs to dolly this contraption up a bit. I am sure it saves lives and makes towing more pleasurable, but this black bolt on mechanism is UGLY!



After it's all purdied up, I wonder what kind and weights of lubricants should be used on it to keep it slickiddy?

snakeoil
12-01-2008, 06:53 PM
How come most posts like this never include data and very few opinions on stopping statistics (and not just this thread or site)?

If you have a slippery ramp and wheel spin then it is obivous you may need 4wd.

If the hitch and truck data indicates inadequacies then that is that is obvious.

If your 4 banger has trouble going up hills then that is obvious.

If you are constantly overheating your engine or wearing out brakes or replacing transmissions then that is obvious.

On undersized vehicles, what really scares me is the fact that at 50mph or greater, then XStar is in control and not the tow vehicle. When this happens, you hurt your boat, tow vehicle, yourself and the person(s) you are trying to avoid.

I am not an expert but stopping capabilities should be first on the list of stats (IMO).



Exactly, but next to impossible to covey to these 1/2 toners who think they can tow house.

mccobmd
12-01-2008, 07:00 PM
I would also worry about the stopping. I towed with a chevy 1/2 ton 4wd and the problem was never getting it moving. Even with trailer brakes that short bed truck will have problems stopping that load. When the weight pushing is greater than the weight stopping the pushing will eventually win.

mccobmd
12-01-2008, 07:01 PM
I am now towing with a Nissan Armada that weighs 1000lbs more and don't worry about starting or stopping. It's not a 3/4 ton but is not far off.

bobx1
12-01-2008, 07:06 PM
P.S. Not trying to get involved in a Winter Time war on diesel vs. gas, 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton, etc.. Just always concerned that alot of people don't APPEAR to give STOPPING top priority when discussing TOW capabilities.

Sodar
12-01-2008, 08:34 PM
So Yugo or not?

trickskier
12-01-2008, 08:42 PM
So Yugo or not?

Can you still buy parts for them???

Sodar
12-01-2008, 08:43 PM
Can you still buy parts for them???

So you are recommending the Yaris?

trickskier
12-01-2008, 08:48 PM
So you are recommending the Yaris?

No, actually I think a Resto-Pinto would be the best choice................;)

Sodar
12-01-2008, 08:51 PM
So many choices. Think they make weight distributing hitches for these? :D

Maybe if I get one of these adapters, I can fit Hurkies hitch in it!

http://www.tailgaterawnings.com/images/Hitch-adapter.jpg

trickskier
12-01-2008, 08:55 PM
So many choices. Think they make weight distributing hitches for these? :D

Maybe if I get one of these adapters, I can fit Hurkies hitch in it!

Bumper hitch on a Pinto is all you'll need..................Bumpers are strong like mule!!!

bbymgr
12-01-2008, 10:01 PM
So many choices. Think they make weight distributing hitches for these? :D





It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.

vision
12-01-2008, 10:05 PM
P.S. Not trying to get involved in a Winter Time war on diesel vs. gas, 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton, etc.. Just always concerned that alot of people don't APPEAR to give STOPPING top priority when discussing TOW capabilities.

Absolutely agree. But, I suspect that this is harder to accurately state or judge due to variations in trailer design that have a greater influence on safety than the weight of the package.

I recently pulled a 3000 lb boat and single axle trailer with no built in brakes and that was down right scary. Turning around and pulling the 5600 lb X-star on a dual axle trailer with built in brakes resulted in a much smoother ride, more stable turning and far shorter stopping distances. I am thankful that MC places these boats on such an excellent trailer.

CottagerGreg
12-01-2008, 10:28 PM
Bumper hitch on a Pinto is all you'll need..................Bumpers are strong like mule!!!

Just don't get hit from behind or you'l have a BBQ!

bigmac
12-01-2008, 10:29 PM
It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.
I think we've established that that's only true for European swallows. An African swallow is completely different. The problem there, however, is that they are non-migratory.

mclovin
12-01-2008, 10:52 PM
i pull my boat x14 with a (LE CAR) cause i aint messin around!

vision
12-01-2008, 11:25 PM
I think we've established that that's only true for European swallows. An African swallow is completely different. The problem there, however, is that they are non-migratory.

But what if two of them grabbed it by the husk...

tampawake
12-02-2008, 10:16 AM
I have a Tundra crew max and my only regret is I did not get 4wd. If your buying a tow vehicle I think its a good idea you may only need it 1% of the time but during those times its HUGE. If not get you a tow strap for just in case. Just depends on the ramps your using and how steep.

MattsCraft
12-02-2008, 11:19 AM
Here is a great resource, if you want to tow legal!

http://www.trailerboats.com/images/elements/1863199_Tow_RatingsPDF.pdf

x-10ron
12-02-2008, 12:01 PM
my 1990 1500 2wd is 50/50 when towing, alot of timesi had to put 2-3 people in the bed to get traction even with a locking diff. If the ramps are wet it can be a pain in the butt. but it is poss, I use my 4x4 tahoe 90% of the time to tow. Good set of tires and maybe a 2nd gear pull would help. A long bed or extended cab 2wd is alot better if 4wd is out of the question.

wakeX2wake
12-02-2008, 12:16 PM
basic synopsis... get rid of the gas saver you're in now and go buy you a new Tundra... best truck on the market right now... you'll pull the star like its nothing and look goo doing it too... not completely necessary but if you want to make a statement get the 5.7L V8 engine... it sports a stout 381hp and will pull around some of the weaker 3/4 ton trucks (glad i did it)... if you got big kids riding in the back they'll be more comfy in the crew max... if its some kids and an occasional adult the double cab is plenty (if they complain tell them to drive themselves)... 4x4 is worth it (just make sure to click it into 4wd every couple of weeks for a trip around the block to keep the parts working)... i also went w/ the Limited package b/c i like bells and whistles (ie i bought a mastercraft)... i had to do the TRD package b/c it sets the truck up more and gives you better towing package... if they're not on there factory color keyed fender flares are a must

if you're not into trucks then get a Tahoe...

otherwise pucker up your rear end and drive slow b/c you're gonna be pulling a sweet boat

Sodar
12-02-2008, 12:37 PM
basic synopsis... get rid of the gas saver you're in now and go buy you a new Tundra... best truck on the market right now... you'll pull the star like its nothing and look goo doing it too... not completely necessary but if you want to make a statement get the 5.7L V8 engine... it sports a stout 381hp and will pull around some of the weaker 3/4 ton trucks (glad i did it)... if you got big kids riding in the back they'll be more comfy in the crew max... if its some kids and an occasional adult the double cab is plenty (if they complain tell them to drive themselves)... 4x4 is worth it (just make sure to click it into 4wd every couple of weeks for a trip around the block to keep the parts working)... i also went w/ the Limited package b/c i like bells and whistles (ie i bought a mastercraft)... i had to do the TRD package b/c it sets the truck up more and gives you better towing package... if they're not on there factory color keyed fender flares are a must

if you're not into trucks then get a Tahoe...

otherwise pucker up your rear end and drive slow b/c you're gonna be pulling a sweet boat

Sequoia.

I will never own another Big 3 vehicle as long as I live. I test drove a Sequoia AND a Tundra this weekend and am now trying to decide between another SUV or a Truck. The Yota was nothing short of incredible. I cannot wait to get rid of my Tahoe and get into one!

ttu
12-02-2008, 12:48 PM
Sequoia.

I will never own another Big 3 vehicle as long as I live. I test drove a Sequoia AND a Tundra this weekend and am now trying to decide between another SUV or a Truck. The Yota was nothing short of incredible. I cannot wait to get rid of my Tahoe and get into one!

coming from a 01, 03 sequoia and then to a 07 tahoe all i can say is i love my 08 sequoia. tows my x2 like a dream

wakeX2wake
12-02-2008, 12:54 PM
Sequoia.

I will never own another Big 3 vehicle as long as I live. I test drove a Sequoia AND a Tundra this weekend and am now trying to decide between another SUV or a Truck. The Yota was nothing short of incredible. I cannot wait to get rid of my Tahoe and get into one!

i'll agree totally w/ that... i was on my way to buy a used 4 door HD and i stepped over to look at the tundra and i never went back to the chevy lot... sequoia is sweetness too... no joke... i test drove one while i was getting my truck serviced the other day... haha i looked at the guy and was like... "this is my next one"


awesome looking rig ttu

Sodar
12-02-2008, 01:05 PM
coming from a 01, 03 sequoia and then to a 07 tahoe all i can say is i love my 08 sequoia. tows my x2 like a dream

Hopefully in the next few months, I will have a tow rig very similar.

The debate between SUV and Truck is really tough. I really like the room an SUV provides for people, but I hate having all the crap I take with me in the cabin. I am tired of hearing stuff in the back, shake rattle and roll around... it would be nice to throw it in the bed of a truck with a tonneau cover.

In the 3 years I have had my Tahoe, I have used the 3rd row of seats all of 2 or 3 times. However, with the Sequoia's ability to have the seats disappear into the floor, it makes the 3rd row a little easier to use and allows me to bring it along, even when I need more cargo area. Which makes the Sequoia a little more enticing.

I don't know. Either way, nothing will happen until I unload the Tahoe. Dealer wanted to give me all of $4500 on trade... :rolleyes:

PendO
12-02-2008, 02:42 PM
Hey Cameron - better stop drinking beer, I think you are a Zima kind of guy!

Sequoia.

I will never own another Big 3 vehicle as long as I live. I test drove a Sequoia AND a Tundra this weekend and am now trying to decide between another SUV or a Truck. The Yota was nothing short of incredible. I cannot wait to get rid of my Tahoe and get into one!

Sodar
12-02-2008, 02:49 PM
Hey Cameron - better stop drinking beer, I think you are a Zima kind of guy!

I will stop drinking beer, when you stop pumping out kids.

PendO
12-02-2008, 02:57 PM
Sequoia is a nice looking ride, never been in a Tundra, although the tv commercials are pretty damn cool

PendO
12-02-2008, 03:00 PM
I will stop drinking beer, when you stop pumping out kids.

Nice, I have no response appropriate for this forum:) Order another round and put it on my tab.

wakeX2wake
12-02-2008, 05:14 PM
Sequoia is a nice looking ride, never been in a Tundra, although the tv commercials are pretty damn cool

if you're ever in town you're welcome to check mine out... on the way to have a cold one on the water

(b/c i'm sure you'll be in north alabama sometime soon)

snakeoil
12-02-2008, 08:14 PM
Neither of those trucks have comparable fuel, towing or anything else to US trucks. all smoke a mirrors boys those are rice burners with different skin.

mhsb1029
12-02-2008, 08:49 PM
Neither of those trucks have comparable fuel, towing or anything else to US trucks. all smoke a mirrors boys those are rice burners with different skin.

My brother said you real name is Phil?

snakeoil
12-02-2008, 08:59 PM
My brother said you real name is Phil?





Who is your brother, that's just wild my name is phil..... Phil Nunlicker Pm me and tell me who your brother is.... how fun is that.

vision
12-02-2008, 10:41 PM
Neither of those trucks have comparable fuel, towing or anything else to US trucks. all smoke a mirrors boys those are rice burners with different skin.


Sorry. I tried to buy American for years. But after realizing that several of the most popular "Detroit" trucks were not actually made in the US, I drove all the brands years ago instead of just sampling the Big 3. Maybe things have changed, but in the 1/2 ton trucks that could pull > 6000lbs, the Toyotas drove better, pulled better, had a better resale percentage, and a better reliability record than the others (Ford, GM, Dodge, and Nissan - I did not drive a Chevy or a Cadillac). When I saw that the oil filter on the Tacoma was actually located on the top of the engine compartment, with a built in drip funnel, it was just the icing on the cake. I could not ignore such a well built, well thought out vehicle. I wish I could put that oil filter set up on my X-star!

coz
12-03-2008, 07:24 AM
Hopefully in the next few months, I will have a tow rig very similar.

The debate between SUV and Truck is really tough. I really like the room an SUV provides for people, but I hate having all the crap I take with me in the cabin. I am tired of hearing stuff in the back, shake rattle and roll around... it would be nice to throw it in the bed of a truck with a tonneau cover.

In the 3 years I have had my Tahoe, I have used the 3rd row of seats all of 2 or 3 times. However, with the Sequoia's ability to have the seats disappear into the floor, it makes the 3rd row a little easier to use and allows me to bring it along, even when I need more cargo area. Which makes the Sequoia a little more enticing.

I don't know. Either way, nothing will happen until I unload the Tahoe. Dealer wanted to give me all of $4500 on trade... :rolleyes:

My daughter has an 06 Sequoia and she loves it, it's a great family car with plenty of pulling power plus it's a Toyota so she'll probably get 200k miles before any work needs to be done.
If you're planning a family go sequoia if not go truck.
If my vehicles weren't paid for with low miles I'd be looking at Toyota :D

ttu
12-03-2008, 08:19 AM
My daughter has an 06 Sequoia and she loves it, it's a great family car with plenty of pulling power plus it's a Toyota so she'll probably get 200k miles before any work needs to be done.
If you're planning a family go sequoia if not go truck.
If my vehicles weren't paid for with low miles I'd be looking at Toyota :D

coz, you are right about how good the quality of the toyota's. for some dumb reason i "almost" picked up a 96 bmw 328 for a daily driver. i had the selling dealer send me the service history on this car and it was freaking 11 pages long. :mad:

in re: to what snake has to say, i did go from 2 toyota sequoia before trying the "new" body style tahoe, i will agree they did a much better job with the tahoe but still does not match the quality of the toyota's.

russlars
12-04-2008, 09:55 AM
Don't overlook the Nissan Titan/Armada in your search for the ideal tow vehicle. My 2005 Armada has 90,000 miles on it and still tows like a champ and has one of the most roomy interiors of all. The back seat leg room is amazing. A couple things that I love about this vehicle is the self leveling suspension (doesn't squat in the rear no matter how loaded it is with the boat in tow. Also the transmission is geared well. Going up hills on the freeway it seldom shifts down into 4th gear. My F-150 with the 4 speed transmission and a 5.4L likes to shift down into 3rd gear at the slightest incline at freeway speeds.
They got some bad PR for brake issues when they first came out, but Nissan fixed that and mind has had no brake issues since. Very pleased with this vehicle.:D

Covi
12-04-2008, 08:11 PM
Killing Me!!!! LOL!

How come most posts like this never include data and very few opinions on stopping statistics (and not just this thread or site)?

If you have a slippery ramp and wheel spin then it is obivous you may need 4wd.

If the hitch and truck data indicates inadequacies then that is that is obvious.

If your 4 banger has trouble going up hills then that is obvious.

If you are constantly overheating your engine or wearing out brakes or replacing transmissions then that is obvious.

On undersized vehicles, what really scares me is the fact that at 50mph or greater, then XStar is in control and not the tow vehicle. When this happens, you hurt your boat, tow vehicle, yourself and the person(s) you are trying to avoid.

I am not an expert but stopping capabilities should be first on the list of stats (IMO).

snakeoil
12-04-2008, 08:24 PM
Bob is dead on correct, I only tow from 210's driveway to the river so I could do it with a golf cart.

snakeoil
12-04-2008, 08:27 PM
Without the big three to drive the market all you jap car lovers will get 70's us products shortly.