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scott herron
05-05-2005, 12:15 PM
I just recently bought a 89 Mastercraft Barefoot 190 from a friend of mine(who is a good mechanic and I am not). The 454 block was just redone about a year ago. However, when we first went to test drive it, it was having a problem starting like there was too much compression. We found that if you took 2 plugs out and turned it over, then put them back in it would start. We decided that water maybe getting into the block from a bad exhaust manifold leaking. We replaced that manifold and riser but when we did the bolts were too long connecting the riser to the manifold and when I checked the oil it was foamy. Well we took everything apart and cleaned it up and changed the oil. It ran great after that. My friend said to change the oil a couple more times and it should be fine. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated?

cdewet
05-05-2005, 01:40 PM
Just keep an eye on your engine temps and check you oil level/color regularly. If you get water in your oil, the level in the dipstick will rise and the oil will change to a greyish and later milky brown color. If that happens, it might be a head gasket that is bad, or a myriad of other things.
Best is to check the symptoms and post again if they show any of the changes mentioned above.
Good luck...

scott herron
05-05-2005, 02:52 PM
Thanks, is there any place that I can get an owner's manual for an 89 Barefoot 190?

Ski-A-Rees
05-05-2005, 03:43 PM
I need one for my 89 PS 190. I just lost one on ebay for like 10 bucks!

jsonova99
05-05-2005, 04:09 PM
I need one for my 89 PS 190. I just lost one on ebay for like 10 bucks!

Don't you hate that, I lose so many stupid little things like that, that are almost impossible to find elsewhere.

Anyway, back to the subject of a bad exhaust manifold. Is there any good way to diagnose a bad manifold before water starts leaking into cylinders?

lakes Rick
05-05-2005, 04:12 PM
The exhaust flaps are a pretty important thing to prevent water entering the engine and exhaust also... You might want to check yours.....

Think about the little cap on our Fuel tank vents.. If its broken or cracked it can let alot of water into your fuel tank... The simple things first......

BriEOD
05-05-2005, 04:17 PM
Yes, you probably poured water back into the block from the manifolds. It isn't a huge deal. Is it running ok even though the oil is "milky?" The oil will sit on top of the water in the pan so your system is circulating more oil than water. I'd run it pretty hard and hot and than change the oil a few times and I bet it will clear right up.

lakes Rick
05-05-2005, 04:40 PM
Yes, you probably poured water back into the block from the manifolds. It isn't a huge deal. Is it running ok even though the oil is "milky?" The oil will sit on top of the water in the pan so your system is circulating more oil than water. I'd run it pretty hard and hot and than change the oil a few times and I bet it will clear right up.

Bri Bri, you are half right here... The oil does sit on top of the water, but your oil pickup tube is in the bottom of the pan, which means you can suck straight water into the oiling system.... Not good....

BriEOD
05-05-2005, 04:44 PM
Shame on me. My point is get the engine good and hot and mix all the crap up and drain the bad stuff, change the oil and filter and repeat a few times. If that doesn't clear it up you've got problems somewhere.

Leroy
05-05-2005, 04:45 PM
Ski-A-Rees; Can't you email the winner to see if he will make you a copy for $10?



I need one for my 89 PS 190. I just lost one on ebay for like 10 bucks!

wesgardner
05-06-2005, 09:13 AM
Hey Scott,

Oh, here's another one - 454's are notoriously hard on starters!! Just make sure everything is good and "hot" - i.e. ALL your wiring is sound AND be sure the mating surfaces betwixed and between the starter and the block are very clean (you should also do a check on the alternator as well). This is how the starter gets and the alternator provides the ground portion of the electrical "equation".


FYI- my starter rebuild was $110, alt. rebuild was $130 last year...

Wes

Ski-A-Rees
05-06-2005, 09:19 AM
Leroy - That was a great idea. I would have never thought of it. I'll try and if I get it I'll send another copy to whoever would like one.

sfitzgerald351
05-06-2005, 10:31 PM
I have an 84 with a 454 and had some of the same problems with water in the cylinders, though my cause was a wimpy start and the motor backfiring and running backwards, sucking water into the cylinders. Luckily for me, water didn't seem to get into the oil. I'd compression check all your cylinders to make sure you didn't bend a rod, or have a bad ring.

Clean all the connections to the starter and battery to make sure you're spinning the motor up as quick as possible. Every mechanic I've talked to said that 454s are hard to start. Make sure the flaps on your exhaust are good so you don't suck water backwards from the manifolds.

Finally, unless you caught the water right away, the mechanic who did my boat ran a mixture of premix (e.g. unleaded plus 2 stroke oil) through the block for a good hour to lube up all the internals and hopefully prevent rust. You might consider doing the same.

And then get those manifolds checked out. New gaskets and the correct bolts are definitely in the works.

JimN
05-06-2005, 11:50 PM
Brian- have you ever made mayonnaise from scratch? It gets thick because the oil and water based stuff emulsifies. The oil and water will do the same thing and it's not easy to get out once it's at that stage. The pump may fail before it really gets it to flow and it loses most of its ability to maintain an oil film, so there really isn't much lubrication. If a little oil gets in, that's one thing, but if there's a major leak, it's best to not run it till the leak is fixed and the crankcase is drained. That stuff is nasty when the motor has been run for any length of time.

SKI*MC
05-07-2005, 12:02 AM
I have an 84 with a 454 and had some of the same problems with water in the cylinders, though my cause was a wimpy start and the motor backfiring and running backwards, sucking water into the cylinders. Luckily for me, water didn't seem to get into the oil. I'd compression check all your cylinders to make sure you didn't bend a rod, or have a bad ring.

Clean all the connections to the starter and battery to make sure you're spinning the motor up as quick as possible. Every mechanic I've talked to said that 454s are hard to start. Make sure the flaps on your exhaust are good so you don't suck water backwards from the manifolds.

Finally, unless you caught the water right away, the mechanic who did my boat ran a mixture of premix (e.g. unleaded plus 2 stroke oil) through the block for a good hour to lube up all the internals and hopefully prevent rust. You might consider doing the same.

And then get those manifolds checked out. New gaskets and the correct bolts are definitely in the works.


Do you still have that smae problem ever?

SKI*MC
05-07-2005, 12:04 AM
I have an 84 with a 454 and had some of the same problems with water in the cylinders, though my cause was a wimpy start and the motor backfiring and running backwards, sucking water into the cylinders. Luckily for me, water didn't seem to get into the oil. I'd compression check all your cylinders to make sure you didn't bend a rod, or have a bad ring.

Clean all the connections to the starter and battery to make sure you're spinning the motor up as quick as possible. Every mechanic I've talked to said that 454s are hard to start. Make sure the flaps on your exhaust are good so you don't suck water backwards from the manifolds.

Finally, unless you caught the water right away, the mechanic who did my boat ran a mixture of premix (e.g. unleaded plus 2 stroke oil) through the block for a good hour to lube up all the internals and hopefully prevent rust. You might consider doing the same.

And then get those manifolds checked out. New gaskets and the correct bolts are definitely in the works.


Do you still have that same problem ever?

SKI*MC
05-07-2005, 12:25 AM
I need one for my 89 PS 190. I just lost one on ebay for like 10 bucks!

They have brochures on this website, even an 89 one. One the top of this page click on downloads, the brochures, then 89 MC. Is that what you are looking for?

Ric
05-07-2005, 10:05 AM
I have an 84 with a 454 and had some of the same problems with water in the cylinders, though my cause was a wimpy start and the motor backfiring and running backwards, sucking water into the cylinders. Luckily for me, water didn't seem to get into the oil. I'd compression check all your cylinders to make sure you didn't bend a rod, or have a bad ring.

Clean all the connections to the starter and battery to make sure you're spinning the motor up as quick as possible. Every mechanic I've talked to said that 454s are hard to start. Make sure the flaps on your exhaust are good so you don't suck water backwards from the manifolds.

Finally, unless you caught the water right away, the mechanic who did my boat ran a mixture of premix (e.g. unleaded plus 2 stroke oil) through the block for a good hour to lube up all the internals and hopefully prevent rust. You might consider doing the same.

And then get those manifolds checked out. New gaskets and the correct bolts are definitely in the works.
A quick note regarding the starter on a 454. The cheap little tab that allows you to use a third mounting bolt on the tail end of the gm starter is important. They didn't come on the pickups from the factory, you had to add them. If your starter is only using the 2 long bolts near the bendix, then add that tail bracket and solve your 454 starter problem before it becomes a problem. The 454 block is already tapped to match where that tail bracket is to mount. Easy fix. It'll save you a few starters and ultimately a flywheel. I speak from hard knocks experience on that one :(

cdewet
05-08-2005, 11:15 PM
Don't you hate that, I lose so many stupid little things like that, that are almost impossible to find elsewhere.

Anyway, back to the subject of a bad exhaust manifold. Is there any good way to diagnose a bad manifold before water starts leaking into cylinders?
Your exhaust manifold shouldn't be able to "leak" water into the block or piston chamber unless the water runs back up the exhaust and in through the exhaust valve. This is where the importance of that rubber flappy thingy comes in, although I believe you need a pretty decent surge of water from behind to push water all the way back up through the manifold and into the piston chamber.
The exhaust manifold is directly connected to the exhaust ports on the block and the coolant/water joins the exhaust gas a decent distance downstream of the exhaust ports. If your flappers are good , the water most likely entered the block through a busted head gasket (not too bad) or through a crack in the water jacket (BAD, VERY BAD).
A compression check at the dealer or most any auto repair shop will pinpoint the issue to a particular piston. Those guys might be the best to ask any further questions....

scott88prostar
05-08-2005, 11:39 PM
A quick note regarding the starter on a 454. The cheap little tab that allows you to use a third mounting bolt on the tail end of the gm starter is important. They didn't come on the pickups from the factory, you had to add them. If your starter is only using the 2 long bolts near the bendix, then add that tail bracket and solve your 454 starter problem before it becomes a problem. The 454 block is already tapped to match where that tail bracket is to mount. Easy fix. It'll save you a few starters and ultimately a flywheel. I speak from hard knocks experience on that one :(


Ric....do you mean an additional mounting bolt for the starter or some other tab?....Jimn you are amazing...Ive never heard of someone making mayonnaise from scratch!

Leroy
05-08-2005, 11:47 PM
I think if JimN were stranded due to impeller breaking down he could make one out of a aluminum Coke can!


This is one of the threads I hope dies soon, I never like threads titled like this one.:(

bradamerry
05-08-2005, 11:52 PM
I think if JimN were stranded due to impeller breaking down he could make one out of a aluminum Coke can!


This is one of the threads I hope dies soon, I never like threads titled like this one.:(
Something must be wrong with me.. My boat want start and I played golf today... My crew will kill me if we have to carry the duck boat to Greeson for Memorial Day weekend.... :(

Leroy
05-09-2005, 12:09 AM
Brad; We talked about this earlier, click, click, should not be too hard to solve. Sounds like another $29.99 battery. You have to take advantage of daylight, good job, but you are posting when your boat won't run??? :eek:

Maybe you need to start a thread on Brad's ride won't work.....I heard the cars running at the 500 today, so the holiday is just around the corner!

6ballsisall
05-09-2005, 12:11 AM
Something must be wrong with me.. My boat want start and I played golf today... My crew will kill me if we have to carry the duck boat to Greeson for Memorial Day weekend.... :(

Brad, where have your priorities gone my friend. C'mon, get a hold of yourself!

bradamerry
05-09-2005, 12:12 AM
Brad, where have your priorities gone my friend. C'mon, get a hold of yourself!
I won money............. Does that help :confused: ?

erkoehler
05-09-2005, 12:14 AM
Only if it was needed in order to fix the boat. And, it has to be spent on the boat within 24 hours!

6ballsisall
05-09-2005, 12:14 AM
I won money............. Does that help :confused: ?

hmmm.....thats a tough one. But take care of the MC quick, I can hear it calling your name this far North!

Leroy
05-09-2005, 12:17 AM
If I ever get the chance, I want Brad on my foursome team, play closest ball, I'll just drop a lot.



I won money............. Does that help :confused: ?

erkoehler
05-09-2005, 12:19 AM
If I ever get the chance, I want Brad on my foursome team, play closest ball, I'll just drop a lot.


We had a company sponsored event last year, and being the only member of management that doesn't/can't drink I made myself look REAL good that day on the course!

bradamerry
05-09-2005, 12:21 AM
If I ever get the chance, I want Brad on my foursome team, play closest ball, I'll just drop a lot.
Played 27 holes today... Even through 9, +4 through 18 and -2 on the last nine... I'm getting better.. I try to be at my best for the Club Championship.. I must repeat!!!!!!!

JEREMY79
05-09-2005, 12:28 AM
Always figured there was too much to drink to chase that little white ball. I just like drive the cart :toast:

erkoehler
05-09-2005, 12:35 AM
Always figured there was too much to drink to chase that little white ball. I just like drive the cart :toast:


Driving the beer cart is even better!

6ballsisall
05-09-2005, 12:39 AM
Driving the beer cart is even better!

No, watching certain beer cart drivers is better! :D

JEREMY79
05-09-2005, 12:41 AM
No, watching certain beer cart drivers is better! :D

Amen to that

bradamerry
05-09-2005, 12:43 AM
Ok, back to the thread topic.... I had water in my oil last summer :mad: , I changed the oil, filter and that damn manual fuel pump. I went with the elec. fuel pump that day and did it all at the lake :banana: !

I'm a bad a$$ motor man :rolleyes: ...

erkoehler
05-09-2005, 12:44 AM
No, watching certain beer cart drivers is better! :D


Yes, Yes it can be....

bradamerry
05-09-2005, 12:45 AM
Yes, Yes it can be....
HEY, back to topic here ERK... Do you have water in the oil of that Goat???

erkoehler
05-09-2005, 12:46 AM
In the Goat???? :confused:

JEREMY79
05-09-2005, 12:47 AM
I had a little water in my oil last summer. A oil & filter changed seemed to do the trick.

ERK goat??

Leroy
05-09-2005, 12:48 AM
Ok ERK, number 3 on the team!



We had a company sponsored event last year, and being the only member of management that doesn't/can't drink I made myself look REAL good that day on the course!

bradamerry
05-09-2005, 12:48 AM
In the Goat???? :confused:
That damn Dodge... You know the horn thing you guys have going.... Can you say HEMI??

6ballsisall
05-09-2005, 12:49 AM
In the Goat???? :confused:


The goat would be a reference to a Dodge

erkoehler
05-09-2005, 12:49 AM
I'm just as confused as you are! :rolleyes:

JEREMY79
05-09-2005, 12:49 AM
That damn Dodge... You know the horn thing you guys have going.... Can you say HEMI??

Thought someone had just busted out a GTO

erkoehler
05-09-2005, 12:50 AM
HEY, back to topic here ERK... Do you have water in the oil of that Goat???


Do far no issues with her! Other than the fact that everytime I wash the damn thing it rains.

Leroy
05-09-2005, 12:50 AM
OK Jeremy, number 4, we have a foursome!:friday:



Always figured there was too much to drink to chase that little white ball. I just like drive the cart :toast:

6ballsisall
05-09-2005, 12:50 AM
Ok, back to the thread topic.... I had water in my oil last summer :mad: , I changed the oil, filter and that damn manual fuel pump. I went with the elec. fuel pump that day and did it all at the lake :banana: !

I'm a bad a$$ motor man :rolleyes: ...

Tell me more about the electric fuel pump switch. Why did you do that and how did you mount it?

JEREMY79
05-09-2005, 12:51 AM
I'll drive the cart.
I worked at a golf couse a long time ago. Played every day. Got really good. Then I havent played since.

erkoehler
05-09-2005, 12:54 AM
Golf is a sport only meant to be played on the rare occassion that you can't take the boat out. Especially when you suck!

bradamerry
05-09-2005, 12:55 AM
Tell me more about the electric fuel pump switch. Why did you do that and how did you mount it?
My old manual fuel pump ran off the crank shift. It started licking, so I bought a elec. one and a plate to cover the hole left when I took the old one out. You can buy it all at Auto Zone for about $20.00.. When I turn my key on you can hear it pumping... Great deal and it has better response out of the hole!!!

sfitzgerald351
05-09-2005, 10:18 AM
Do you still have that same problem ever?

After chasing my slow starts for a couple of years it seems to have gone away. Had a tired battery (which consistently passed the bench tests, but would struggle in the boat) and a bad connection on the new battery cables. I only had a problem with the engine running backwards if the start was slow. Now that I've got enough juice getting to the starter it fires pretty much instantly. Occasionally it'll take two tries. The best part about getting it working right is that I really don't have that little piece of doubt in the back of my head saying "I wonder if it'll start...?"

sfitzgerald351
05-09-2005, 10:22 AM
Scott H,

Let us know what you find out!