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Grover777
10-19-2008, 08:46 AM
Hi:

Do I need to fog an efi engine? If so, what is the proper procedure?
I have a 2001 PS 209 with the 330hp LTR engine.

Thanks!

TMCNo1
10-19-2008, 09:25 AM
These threads may help, http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-1573311577903577%3Adsmp8jq2q09&ie=ISO-8859-1&cx=partner-pub-1573311577903577%3Adsmp8jq2q09&ie=ISO-8859-1&cx=partner-pub-1573311577903577%3Adsmp8jq2q09&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Fog+EFI&sa=Search

bigmac
10-19-2008, 09:55 AM
Hi:

Do I need to fog an efi engine? If so, what is the proper procedure?
I have a 2001 PS 209 with the 330hp LTR engine.

Thanks!

Yes, you do. Carburetor vs EFI makes no difference relative to the need to fog the engine before layup.

Pull your spark arrestor and with the engine running, spray fogging oil into the intake. The engine will bog and white smoke will come out the exhaust. I do this as the very last step in the winterizing process, and after several cycles of spray-bog-spray-bog, I spray into the intake until the engine actually dies.

Don't trust that the little red straw on the fogging oil can won't come loose and shoot into your engine.

east tx skier
10-19-2008, 11:01 AM
Yes, you do. Carburetor vs EFI makes no difference relative to the need to fog the engine before layup.

Pull your spark arrestor and with the engine running, spray fogging oil into the intake. The engine will bog and white smoke will come out the exhaust. I do this as the very last step in the winterizing process, and after several cycles of spray-bog-spray-bog, I spray into the intake until the engine actually dies.

Don't trust that the little red straw on the fogging oil can won't come loose and shoot into your engine.

I don't know if the LTR is a "dry intake," but if it is, from what I've read about my non-indmar engine, you may not want to fog it at the intake. Rather, you would fog the cylinders (remove the spark plugs and spray fogging oil into the chamber) and then turn the engine over a few turns by hand. Again, this may be a PCM specific instruction, but it may be worth investigating further before you fog the intake on your engine.

Grover777
10-19-2008, 11:09 AM
Thanks! I will dig more and see what it takes for the LTR. I did the TMC Google search and did not find much for LTR.

OhioX14
10-19-2008, 12:34 PM
On newer engines there seems to be increasing reasons NOT to fog through the intake. On my MCX Indmar specifically warns against it as it can get into the catalytic converters and cause damage. There's also the EFI dry intake concerns and my dealer has warned me about that.

I'm a firm believer in changing the oil during winterization and really don't see the need to change it again in the spring. However, if you fog each cylinder and that stuff makes it's way into the oil pan I would feel compelled to change the oil again. Therefore, why bother? I never fogged my GT40 prior to purchasing my first Mastercraft, I know quite a few people who don't fog, and I don't plan on doing next year when I start winterizing my own boat again. There seems to be more reasons against it than there are for it.

wpauling
10-20-2008, 08:44 AM
On newer engines there seems to be increasing reasons NOT to fog through the intake. On my MCX Indmar specifically warns against it as it can get into the catalytic converters and cause damage. There's also the EFI dry intake concerns and my dealer has warned me about that.



My dealer gave me the same warning/concerns when we talked winterization on my MCX Indmar engine.

Scott
10-20-2008, 09:08 AM
I have to ask this?? My Master Craft dealer leaves the spark arrestor on, starts engine and sprays fogging oil through the arrestor.. Is this cool??

TMCNo1
10-20-2008, 09:33 AM
I have to ask this?? My Master Craft dealer leaves the spark arrestor on, starts engine and sprays fogging oil through the arrestor.. Is this cool??

Sounds like a little lazyness and if there is any dust, trash on the flame arrestor it could be dissolved during fogging and pulled into the intake.:twocents:

bigmac
10-20-2008, 10:38 AM
I have to ask this?? My Master Craft dealer leaves the spark arrestor on, starts engine and sprays fogging oil through the arrestor.. Is this cool??
I don't think so, but the magnitude of its badness depends on the material of the spark arrestor. If it's a metal element, probably not too bad. If it's a K&N paper element, it's very bad.

Scott
10-20-2008, 11:11 AM
I don't think so, but the magnitude of its badness depends on the material of the spark arrestor. If it's a metal element, probably not too bad. If it's a K&N paper element, it's very bad.

Its a K and N filter!!!

bigmac
10-20-2008, 11:25 AM
Its a K and N filter!!!

Very bad. Sheer laziness.

The functionality of a K&N filter depends on the condition of the paper element. K&N is very specific about how those should be maintained, especially regarding cleaning and oiling. Unless your dealer is fogging your engine with K&N filter oil, I'd be inclined to insist that he treat your filter the way that K&N recommends.

Grover777
10-20-2008, 11:45 AM
Talked to my dealer today. He says it would not hurt to fog the LTR. I will give it a go tonight, with the arrestor off and making sure the straw is very secure.

greenem3063
10-30-2008, 12:48 PM
I just completed my first winterization on my 1998 MC Maristar 230 VRS. It has a 1997 or 1996 LT1 engine. I read through multiple threads and several of the check lists that have been posted and elected to drain all of the water out of the engine and heater and add the pink RV/Marine antifreeze. I disconnected the heater lines, blew out the water, pumped it full of antifreeze, and then plugged the lines and and engine connections for the winter. I made up a hose connection to fit the raw water intake, added three cans of Sea Foam stablizer to the full gas tank, ran the engine to warm it up to operating temperature, changed the oil and filter, and then drained the water from the engine, exhaust mainifolds, and muffler. I hooked up a five gallon pail to the raw water intake, started the engine, and ran 5 gallons of antifreeze into it. My final step was to remove the spark plugs and fog the cylinders, loosely put the plugs back in, and turned the engine over a couple of times to distribute it. I am concerned, however, with one of the steps in one of the check lists that I reviewed. It said to drain the "Speedo tubes". I am not familiar with that term so could anybody tell me if my LT1 has them and, if so, where they are. Would my running the engine with antifreeze protect them? My final step will be to tape the exhaust flaps closed, prop the engine cover open, and then have the boat shrinked wrapped for outside storage in Michigan. If there are any other steps that I should take before I shrink wrap it, please let me know.

JimN
10-30-2008, 12:56 PM
I have to ask this?? My Master Craft dealer leaves the spark arrestor on, starts engine and sprays fogging oil through the arrestor.. Is this cool??

Has your flame arrestor EVER been cleaned? This is an important step, regardless of the fogging question.

Not removing the arrestor, which takes all of 5 seconds if someone has done it a lot, keeps the fogging oil from atomizing. At best, only a little gets into all of the cylinders. That is lazy, or just a short cut. However, from personal experience, it does keep fire from belching out when a motor backfires. Other than the rag that was close by and some arm hair, there was nothing lost.

Thanks Tim.

JimN
10-30-2008, 01:15 PM
Engine Nut needs to chime in on this but regardless of the fact that some here think that the "anecdotal advice" I have posted from the MC trainers, instructing us to not use RV anti-freeze on the LT-1 shouldn't be followed, I won't recommend using it having heard it with my own ears. If the motor is drained completely, it won't have anything in it that will do any damage. It also won't have a gasket failure from the anti-freeze causing damage to the heads.

I recommend talking to your dealers and asking what they have heard at training and if they are still covering the LT-1 there. Or, contact MC or Indmar about it before using it. I think most of us have heard that aluminum radiators don't last long with regular coolant (remember the original Saturn car problems?) and aluminum heads are a lot more expensive.

YMMV

FrankSchwab
10-30-2008, 03:09 PM
greenem -
My '98 Maristar doesn't have speedo tubes, and I doubt yours does either.

In older boats, there was a tube that ran from a pitot on the back of the boat up to the speedometer in the dash; as you went faster, the pitot generated more vacuum and moved the speedometer needle. This tube would sometimes get water in it, which doesn't affect it's performance, but the water freezing would rupture the tube.

My boat has a paddlewheel mounted to the stern for speed measurement. All electric, so no tube. It should be obvious on the back of your boat.

I'd give you pointers on the other winterizaton questions, but I can't say I'm an expert on this whole winterization thing. For us, it means having to wear pants.

/frank

chevy08bud
10-31-2008, 12:28 AM
I don't think so, but the magnitude of its badness depends on the material of the spark arrestor. If it's a metal element, probably not too bad. If it's a K&N paper element, it's very bad.

K&N does not use paper as a filtering media. It is cotton. If it was paper, it wouldn't be servicable as the paper would deteriorate when you use their cleaning kit on it.

Scott
10-31-2008, 07:09 AM
Has your flame arrestor EVER been cleaned? This is an important step, regardless of the fogging question.

Not removing the arrestor, which takes all of 5 seconds if someone has done it a lot, keeps the fogging oil from atomizing. At best, only a little gets into all of the cylinders. That is lazy, or just a short cut. However, from personal experience, it does keep fire from belching out when a motor backfires. Other than the rag that was close by and some arm hair, there was nothing lost.

Thanks Tim.

I HAVNT EVER CLEANED IT, SO I WOULD ASSUME IT WASNT CLEANED BY DEALER......GUESS I WILL BE CLEANING IT ASAP....

JimN
10-31-2008, 07:42 AM
I HAVNT EVER CLEANED IT, SO I WOULD ASSUME IT WASNT CLEANED BY DEALER......GUESS I WILL BE CLEANING IT ASAP....

If it's light pink/red or really dirty, it hasn't been cleaned. Go to an auto parts store and look at a new one to see how it should look. Flame arrestors were probably the single most neglected item I saw on people's motors and if you imagine running wind sprints with a hand over your mouth, that's about how much affect it can have, if it's bad enough.

Scott
10-31-2008, 08:47 AM
If it's light pink/red or really dirty, it hasn't been cleaned. Go to an auto parts store and look at a new one to see how it should look. Flame arrestors were probably the single most neglected item I saw on people's motors and if you imagine running wind sprints with a hand over your mouth, that's about how much affect it can have, if it's bad enough.

i guess i was under the impression that it wouldnt be under near the stress of a filter of a normal vehicle. i need to rectify the dirtiness.. i will check it this weekend..

Prostar Rich
10-31-2008, 10:22 AM
I'm a firm believer in changing the oil during winterization and really don't see the need to change it again in the spring. However, if you fog each cylinder and that stuff makes it's way into the oil pan I would feel compelled to change the oil again. Therefore, why bother?


You never want to store your boat with old oil in the engine.

Prostar Rich

dsoby
10-31-2008, 10:49 AM
Scott,
K&N sells a flame arrestor cleaning kit that is available at most auto parts stores. This kit is easy to use. Jim is correct, they do get dirty and this will definitely affect your engine's performance.

OhioX14
10-31-2008, 10:50 AM
I'm a firm believer in changing the oil during winterization and really don't see the need to change it again in the spring. However, if you fog each cylinder and that stuff makes it's way into the oil pan I would feel compelled to change the oil again. Therefore, why bother?


You never want to store your boat with old oil in the engine.

Prostar Rich

I agree and probably should have worded that differently. The point I was trying to make is that if you squirt a bunch of fogging oil down each cylinder it's going to end up in the oil pan which would make me feel compelled to change the oil again in the spring. Indmar is quite specific that the newer engines with the catalytic converters should not be fogged through the intake, so for those of us with them, the only choice is to fog the cylinders individually.

I have it on good authority that many dealers do not fog these engines at all and have absolutely no problems. The question then is whether it is really necessary at all, because if it is, then I guess I'm going to have to count on a second oil change in the spring.

JimN
10-31-2008, 12:08 PM
While it won't usually get as dirty, as fast, as a car/truck filter I have seen some God-awful looking spark arrestors and almost all of those boats came in for tune-ups that weren't needed.

If you look through it and can't see much light, clean it. There's a lot more flying around in the motor area than is imagined.

greenem3063
10-31-2008, 12:30 PM
JimN.... In response to your concern about using Marine Anti-freeze in my LT-1, I placed a call to Action Water Sports and they confirmed that they have always used the -100 degree Marine Anti-freeze in that engine.

JimN
10-31-2008, 01:01 PM
If Action has sent their techs to MC training, they would know that it was recommended to NOT use it. MC and Indmar were the ones who offered and enforced the warranty and they had every right to say how they wanted them winterized.