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Gonzo
10-07-2008, 11:32 PM
OK guys, as you know Im building a house... I am trying to decide if i want to go all electric or have gas appliances. My biggest concern is keeping monthly costs down (o yea and saving the world, just for you CP;)).

If I go electric...
Heat pump,
smooth cooktop
and possibly and in line electric water heater.
Gas logs will be propane with a 100 gal tank under the porch (also hooked to my grill... no more running out! :headbang: Keep its little brother full as a spare.

If I go gas, I would probably only change the cooktop, and the in line heater to gas, both are more expensive up front (of course the logs and grill could go on natural too)

Some has to have made this decision before I did, any input?

sand2snow22
10-07-2008, 11:58 PM
Great question Gonzo. I just switched from an oil furnace to a gas furnace. It was actually cheaper to install a new furnace than fill up my 675 gallon oil tank :o (I will let you know a guy took my oil furnace for free, he was going to burn biodiesel in it for $1-2 gallon.) From speaking with my hvac guy, oil burns the hottest, but it's the dirtiest. Gas is second hottest. Electric heat pump least hot. Having said that, a ton of people in my neighborhood are switching from oil to gas. Not in this economy, but someday demand for gas will go back up. Some folks around here are doing solar hot water and radiant heating using solar/gas. I'm told solar hotwater is an 18 month payback. I know the solar incentives were extended before the bailout and I think the bailout had even more incentives?

http://redgreenandblue.org/2008/09/23/breaking-senate-passes-extensions-
of-renewable-energy-tax-credits/

I went gas furnace, and I can always add a heat pump and use the gas furnace as backup when it gets really cold. How cold does it get where you are in the winter?

The beauty of electric is you have so many different sources powering the grid, hydro, coal, gas, solar, wind, etc......In theory it should be cheaper than gas? Less monopoly.

You can't beat a gas stove. They do make some nice flat electric cooktops that get hot really quick and are somehow energy efficient. I'm a fan of electric oven.

In line, I assume you're talking about tankless hot water systems? Around here our water source is snow melt so the electric ones don't work too well. Even heard of problems with the gas ones. If you water source isn't too cold you should be good with either.

You gotta change the logs to gas, too. We refinished our basement and plumbed for a future gas log fireplace and future gas tankless water heater.

Hopefully Staristar will chime in, he just built a nice shack down by the river.....

OK guys, as you know Im building a house... I am trying to decide if i want to go all electric or have gas appliances. My biggest concern is keeping monthly costs down (o yea and saving the world, just for you CP;)).

If I go electric...
Heat pump,
smooth cooktop
and possibly and in line electric water heater.
Gas logs will be propane with a 100 gal tank under the porch (also hooked to my grill... no more running out! :headbang: Keep its little brother full as a spare.

If I go gas, I would probably only change the cooktop, and the in line heater to gas, both are more expensive up front (of course the logs and grill could go on natural too)

Some has to have made this decision before I did, any input?

88 PS190
10-08-2008, 12:15 AM
For stove I prefer gas burners, for oven I prefer electric.

For tank water heaters I like gas, don't know about inline.

For house heat I like our ground water heat pump, but the new ones are alot more interesting.

PapaJoe
10-08-2008, 06:30 AM
Cook on Gas!!!!!

flipper
10-08-2008, 06:43 AM
I have gas at my house, and wouldn't go back. It's nice to be able to cook and take a hot shower when the power is out.

ski_king
10-08-2008, 06:49 AM
I have gas forced air with a add-on heat pump.
Right now I use the heat pump, except when it get really cold, then the gas kicks in.

Right now I have a arge amount of fire wood available and am adding a wood burner this fall.

Hot water, gas is the only way to go, fast heating and recovery compared to electric. I almost went with inline hot water, but changed my mind at last instant.

Cooking: I wanted gas, wife wanted electric........ I have electric....

2RLAKE
10-08-2008, 06:52 AM
i built a new house 3 years ago (2x6 exterior walls, all brick/stone exterior) and spent some time looing into this. I went all electric ... high efficiency heat pump (15 seer) and water heat ... just used propane for the cooktop. Our neighborhood does not have natural gas, so all my neighbors use propane with which to heat. My electric bill in the winter is half the cost of their bills.

I found several websites, even some good government sights, that allow you to estimate your utility costs based on location, house size, construction type, etc ... very useful and they turned out to be accurate.

good luck

2RLAKE
10-08-2008, 06:57 AM
also, check with your local electric company and county to see if their are any incentives for installing a geothermal system. The upcost for me would have been about $15k ... however if i lived 5 miles to an adjacent county i would have received half of that back in an instant tax credit

Does your building qualify for the energy star program?

ShamrockIV
10-08-2008, 07:55 AM
i like gas for heat and for clothes dryer but with kids in the house i like electric for cooking. my parents built a new house and my mom said the other day she likes cooking on gas stovetop but it is a B to keep clean!!

gas water heater is a must but with 6 in my house i am researching the inline water heaters!!

BrianM
10-08-2008, 08:27 AM
In my opinion nothing beats a gas cooktop for cooking. Gas is nice for sure but the big thing is going to be cost. Plumbing the gas is going to add significantly to construction cost.

djhuff
10-08-2008, 08:31 AM
Gas cooktops are a pain to clean, but if you are an avid chef, there is no better heat source. I'm not, and I like to make a mess when I do cook, so I have a smooth top.

Really consider gas on the heat. IMO, if there is natural gas in the neighborhood, hook up to it. I am running both furnaces off of it, hot water heater, and gas fire starter. My grill is a propane version, so I didn't hook it up.

If we ever have any really cold days around here, you will appreciate the gas heat, it's MUCH hotter.

djhuff
10-08-2008, 08:32 AM
Brian, gas piping is not too expensive if they use TracPipe. about 150-200 per appliance.

coz
10-08-2008, 08:55 AM
In Calif. we were all gas and here in Az it's all electric and it's more expensive and it sucks. We're looking into going solar since we have 300 days a year of sunshine here.

BrianM
10-08-2008, 08:56 AM
Brian, gas piping is not too expensive if they use TracPipe. about 150-200 per appliance.

Never heard of Trac-Pipe. It may not be allowed around here. Generally here the cost of gas is about $2500 for the first drop and then about $500 per additional.

6ballsisall
10-08-2008, 09:03 AM
Most definetely Gas all the way. My prior house was all electric and I hated it. Have you ever had a house w/ a Heat Pump? If you get cold weather (below freezing) you'll hate a Heat Pump and the electric bills will be sky high.

Gas is better to cook on IMO. Gas does a great job heating your house too. Last, Gas is clean burning and fairly readily available.

JimN
10-08-2008, 09:07 AM
A gas range or cooktop is harder to keep clean than a smooth top but an electric with regular coils is just as much of a pain. If it has the heating plates, it's only a bit easier. I use Fantastic to clean mine and it takes everything off with no problem and gas is better for cooking.

Unfortunately, the Electric Co and Gas Co are part of We Energies here in SE WI, so we're screwed. They raise rates every other week and the Public Service Commission just says "Sure, go right ahead". My energy costs have doubled in the last 4 years.

stuartmcnair
10-08-2008, 11:37 AM
I would go with gas for cooking and heating water with a tankless water heater such as a Rennai. For heating the best system right now is a dual fuel system. It utilizes a heat pump until the outside dips below a certain temp then the gas kicks in. This is the most efficient way of heating your home if you live in a climate where you get severe cold weather.

Maristar210
10-08-2008, 12:07 PM
I would echo gas for cook top and electric for the oven or dual fuel as its referred to.
Gas heats best IMO for hot water as well. I am a gas for the furnace too.

My unique, perhaps, recommendation is spray in foam insualtion. This stuff, although more money is most definately worth the cost. Our house is nice and tight as a result, so much so we have an air exchanger for returning oxygenated air into the home. THe other benefits include the sound deadening capacity of the material. It is light years better than roll insulation and it is green friendly in terms of enerysavings and CFC free application. No pipe rattle in the walls because the foam keeps them still and insualtion from noise (toilet flush) also keeps rodents out and etc etc.


I was at where you are in March. If your marriages survives this, it can survive anything. I wish you the best of luck.

Check out the video here and on youtube

www.sprayfoam.biz

Once you watch it you'll give it some serious thought.

2RLAKE
10-08-2008, 12:17 PM
great point on the insulation ... i installed sound insulation in all the interior wall of bathrooms, laundry room and bedrooms. I also used solid 1 3/4" doors instead of hollow 1 3/8" .. those things really helped with reducing noise. We can turn on the washer upstairs when the kids go to bed and they'll never hear it.

another thing, get your electrician to wire your house they way he would wire his own ... I paid my electrician $500 cash and he did an awesome job ... each room is on its own circuit, etc

Maristar210
10-08-2008, 12:33 PM
great point on the insulation ... i installed sound insulation in all the interior wall of bathrooms, laundry room and bedrooms. I also used solid 1 3/4" doors instead of hollow 1 3/8" .. those things really helped with reducing noise. We can turn on the washer upstairs when the kids go to bed and they'll never hear it.

another thing, get your electrician to wire your house they way he would wire his own ... I paid my electrician $500 cash and he did an awesome job ... each room is on its own circuit, etc

I agree with that on the electrical as well.

We marked EXACTLY where we wanted stuff. When he placed it where it was conveinient for him instead of where we wanted it, he came back and re did it.

Gonzo - Lots of walking around when no one is there with a beer in your hand will help you picture where stuff should go. Builders electricians and plummers will always take the quickest way possible when not instructed otherwise. Just human nature. Good Luck

My foam insualtion: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger062008d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger062008e.jpg



Kitchen:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger082908.jpg

Maristar210
10-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Deck view of water http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/railing2.jpg

kitchen view: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger0829083.jpg

view from the water:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger0829085.jpg

If I can help with decisions on fixtrues, where to buy and all that sheet lemme know - again - good luck - Steve

Maristar210
10-08-2008, 12:46 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/P1010017-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger062008a.jpg

endl
10-08-2008, 12:50 PM
Gonzo, if you want a great in-line on demand tankless water heater look at Takagi.com. I have one of these with a re-circulation pump on it and it is great. There web sit is very informative as well.

2RLAKE
10-08-2008, 01:01 PM
the most important thing, if you can, is to control the money. I got my own construction loan, and paid the builder each draw when we completed that phase exactly as i established in my house contract ... i wrote my own. When there was something wrong, many of which i found during those walk throughs with a beer as Maristar210 said, they had to be corrected. For example, the facia boards and soffits sucked when they first installed them ... they tried to cover their tracks with caulk. I held a big draw that the builder needed until everything was removed and thrown into the dumpster ... made them start all over again properly. This happened numerous times.

Also, i held the last draw until every little item was resolved. We had a concern on how all the cermamic tile was installed in the first floor .... i made him give me an unconditional 3 year warranty .. good thing because we had to remove it all a year later.

Just remember, the builder works for you. You will most probably not end up as life-long friends. Treat the house biulding as a business deal, stick to your guns, and dont cave when he tells you its good enough

Yes, i had an issue with my builder ... it all worked out in the end but it almost killed me after 12 months. I ended up doing a ton myself ... framing, trim, driveway, everything to keep the project on track.

have fun ... you'll laugh about it in two years

lanier92prostar
10-08-2008, 01:04 PM
Stove top GAS
Electric oven
Tankless gas water heater
gas furnace
These would be my choices.

Ben
10-08-2008, 01:28 PM
Another benefit to gas is backup power requirements. We have 2 gas furnaces & gas water heater. I am able to use a 5500 watt generator to run my whole house (heat + fridge + selected lights) in the winter if need be. I can't run the elec stove though so we grill out & drink beer when the power is out...

TX.X-30 fan
10-08-2008, 01:37 PM
I have gas at my house all the time, and it really pisses the wife off. It's nice to be able to just sit on the couch and light one up when power is out.



I could have gone all day without this information. :mad: :D

TX.X-30 fan
10-08-2008, 01:41 PM
Deck view of water http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/railing2.jpg

kitchen view: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger0829083.jpg

view from the water:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger0829085.jpg

If I can help with decisions on fixtrues, where to buy and all that sheet lemme know - again - good luck - Steve





Is Baxter taking a leak on the stool??? :D

coz
10-08-2008, 01:52 PM
Deck view of water http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/railing2.jpg

kitchen view: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger0829083.jpg

view from the water:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/burger0829085.jpg

If I can help with decisions on fixtrues, where to buy and all that sheet lemme know - again - good luck - Steve


Looking good :D hey when you get you pics off photobucket you can just paste them in the message box without having to hit the insert image option. When you paste them in the box they already have the [IMG] and you wont see it in the pics like you have now.

454Prostar190
10-08-2008, 02:30 PM
Gonzo, if you want a great in-line on demand tankless water heater look at Takagi.com. I have one of these with a re-circulation pump on it and it is great. There web site is very informative as well.

This is correct and you need to make sure that the re-circulation pump is 1/12th h.p. or better to create enough flow to trigger the flow switch within the unit. (Grundfos Pump #UP26-96BF) We also use Takagi water heaters as a heat source for Hydronic Radiant Heat. The nice thing about these units is that the BTU's are variable so, it only heats the water as needed. With a Hydronic Heat system, after the system is warmed up.... The tankless unit only needs to maintain the heat within the system. If the water in the "return" lines is coming back to the unit at 110 degrees, the water heater only needs to heat the water to 125 degrees for the "supply" side and the energy efficiency is big when used in this method. The Takagi unit is a good unit but, I did have a couple of Takagi units-out of the last 50- that failed and had to fight with Takagi to repair or replace them. I was disappointed with their customer service though, I am still using them.

I'd go with a gas cooktop, electric oven, gas water heater, gas dryer and gas heat.