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trickskier
09-29-2008, 05:11 PM
Dow down 777.68 points today!!!

brucemac
09-29-2008, 05:16 PM
largest drop in history

pretty scary stuff right there

Jorski
09-29-2008, 05:16 PM
If they don't get this deal done...today is going to look like a picnic.

These guys are standing on the train tracks and a diesel is bearing down on them; and they are arguing about if there is mud on the other side of the tracks...this is politics at its' worst.

RexDog1
09-29-2008, 05:18 PM
Dow down 748.21 points today!!!

OH JOY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFF
:rant::rant::rant:

Willski
09-29-2008, 05:21 PM
Wow. I'm afraid to look at my current financial standing!!

brucemac
09-29-2008, 05:23 PM
Wow. I'm afraid to look at my current financial standing!!

i would highly advise against it

trickskier
09-29-2008, 05:32 PM
Oil dropped $10.52 to $96.36

6ballsisall
09-29-2008, 05:33 PM
Oil dropped $10.52 to $96.36

I noticed........:rolleyes:

RexDog1
09-29-2008, 05:36 PM
Dow down 777.68 points today!!!

What is so aggravating about all of this,,:mad: people like me who just work hard try to put some money away for your kids college and your retirement,:rolleyes: I don’t live over your head, pay bills on time… just clean living and this Chit goes down……………………. And I lose?:mad:………………………. Mother f …:mad:…. LOL I just read this back…..oh waaaaaaaaaaaa LOL I JUST NEED A BEER…………. Hummm? How is the beer stock doing???? Time to buy? Have a nice night guys …………………….

trickskier
09-29-2008, 05:37 PM
I noticed........:rolleyes:

Still having gas shortages in your area?

TMCNo1
09-29-2008, 05:37 PM
Oil dropped $10.52 to $96.36
$95.43/barrel down $11.46 for the day!

trickskier
09-29-2008, 05:39 PM
What is so aggravating about all of this,,:mad: people like me who just work hard try to put some money away for your kids college and your retirement,:rolleyes: I don’t live over your head, pay bills on time… just clean living and this Chit goes down……………………. And I lose?:mad:………………………. Mother f …:mad:…. LOL I just read this back…..oh waaaaaaaaaaaa LOL I JUST NEED A BEER…………. Hummm? How is the beer stock doing???? Time to buy? Have a nice night guys …………………….

I'm headed for the Cutty...................

trickskier
09-29-2008, 05:40 PM
$95.43/barrel down $11.46 for the day!

Well I guess USA Today isn't as accurate as I thought................:rolleyes:

6ballsisall
09-29-2008, 05:41 PM
Still having gas shortages in your area?

Yep, no different. Still NO GAS (or very little) :mad:

MattsCraft
09-29-2008, 05:49 PM
This guy has a great idea.

It really helps me realize just how much 85B is.

another simple answer to a complex problem!

The Birk Economic Recovery PLan

Hi Pals,

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a 'We Deserve It Dividend'.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bon-a-fide U.S.

Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.

So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a 'We Deserve It Dividend'.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion 'We Deserve It Dividend' more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

Birk

T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic

PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it's either good for a laugh or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use $85 Billion!!

Skipper
09-29-2008, 06:05 PM
I wont get scared until folks start jumping out the windows on Wall Street. But by then, it's too late anyhow.

TX.X-30 fan
09-29-2008, 06:10 PM
Some of them need a gentle nudge out the window.

wakeX2wake
09-29-2008, 06:12 PM
well that's an awesome plan by Birk... my plan... for today... is to get off work in a few minutes and fill my boat up w/ gas get a six pack of cold ones and a pack of cigarettes and go have myself a good time... why the beer and cigarettes you may ask well mainly b/c the beer makes wakeboard a little better and the cigarettes b/c somethings got to get me and it might as well be that b/c at the rate things are going my insurance company will be tits up and won't be able to provide me treatment anyways so i'll be original and make it something slef inflicted... anyways hopefully i'll have a good set and i know i'll have a good time... enjoy your evenings fellas... the economy may suffer a bit but have good faith in the resolve of the people in this country... so i'll do my part and spend money and stimulate what's left of the economy

dummy
09-29-2008, 06:19 PM
What is so aggravating about all of this,,:mad: people like me who just work hard try to put some money away for your kids college and your retirement,:rolleyes: I don’t live over your head, pay bills on time… just clean living and this Chit goes down……………………. And I lose?:mad:………………………. Mother f …:mad:…. LOL I just read this back…..oh waaaaaaaaaaaa LOL I JUST NEED A BEER…………. Hummm? How is the beer stock doing???? Time to buy? Have a nice night guys …………………….

I hear 'ya buddy. I'm in a house I can afford, I've got an 8 year old boat, I camp in a tent, etc. I lost count of how many couples the wife and I have met down here in So Cal who make under $200K combined, yet they have a $1.2mil house, a 40ft toy hauler, a brand new wakeboard boat, and an $80K lifted, modded SuperDuty to pull it all. Sweet toys, but most of 'em eventually come with a REPO sign. Sucks being penalized for the stupidity of others.

6ballsisall
09-29-2008, 06:22 PM
I hear 'ya buddy. I'm in a house I can afford, I've got an 8 year old boat, I camp in a tent, etc. I lost count of how many couples the wife and I have met down here in So Cal who make under $200K combined, yet they have a $1.2mil house, a 40ft toy hauler, a brand new wakeboard boat, and an $80K lifted, modded SuperDuty to pull it all. Sweet toys, but most of 'em eventually come with a REPO sign. Sucks being penalized for the stupidity of others.

Amen brutha............Atlanta is alot like California in that sense :mad:

shepherd
09-29-2008, 06:27 PM
So, maybe now is the time to buy? :o

Sodar
09-29-2008, 06:31 PM
So, maybe now is the time to buy? :o

Abso-f*cking-lutely!

JimN
09-29-2008, 06:48 PM
Apparently, nobody here did the math on this, just like the first time I got it in an e-mail.

$85B/200M=$425, not $425K.

trickskier
09-29-2008, 07:03 PM
Apparently, nobody here did the math on this, just like the first time I got it in an e-mail.

$85B/200M=$425, not $425K.

I knew you would figure it out...................:D

JimN
09-29-2008, 07:09 PM
It's not hard to figure out and one of the people in the list when I replied actually told me to use a calculator. I told him that I didn't need one when I saw the numbers but that I had verified it with one. I asked if he preferred scientific notation or just finding the least common denominator.

Too many people believe this stuff without really thinking about it and while I do like the concept, it's awfully similar to Bush's Economic Stimulus plan.

88 PS190
09-29-2008, 07:48 PM
What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?


Ya but what would the average person do with 297,500.00, real answer is closer to buy new car, buy lots of new stuff which isn't produced here. Take a vacations.

Suddenly that 297.5 is close to gone, and the people still have bills/debt.

The portion of the population that would be intelligent with their money and result in some strength for our economy is the same portion who's taxes would still be paying off that 85 million for the next 50 years.

People just aren't smart enough to be given money on average, or else we could privately manage our own social security w/ no safety net.

88 PS190
09-29-2008, 07:49 PM
Apparently, nobody here did the math on this, just like the first time I got it in an e-mail.

$85B/200M=$425, not $425K.

even worse huh... so everyone can buy a few tanks of gas.

JimN
09-29-2008, 07:57 PM
"People just aren't smart enough to be given money on average, or else we could privately manage our own social security w/ no safety net."

It never fails to amaze me that when people who have never had much (and some who have) come into money, the first thing they do is buy a car- one of the worst investments a person can make. If it was an investment grade model/year, it's one think but blowing most of it on a Trans Am or something that will lose 40% just by taking it home- incredible.

Willski
09-29-2008, 08:00 PM
i would highly advise against it

Too late....I looked anyway. Oh well, you haven't lost it until you sell right? It will come back up eventually!

brucemac
09-29-2008, 08:16 PM
:) sure hope so!!! and quick!

Bruce
09-29-2008, 08:25 PM
largest drop in history

pretty scary stuff right there

Actually it isn't. In 1987 the Dow dropped 22.6%. To equal that the Dow would have to drop 2,519 pts. In spite of that 1n 1987 the yr. ended with a gain!

6ballsisall
09-29-2008, 09:04 PM
"People just aren't smart enough to be given money on average, or else we could privately manage our own social security w/ no safety net."

It never fails to amaze me that when people who have never had much (and some who have) come into money, the first thing they do is buy a car- one of the worst investments a person can make. If it was an investment grade model/year, it's one think but blowing most of it on a Trans Am or something that will lose 40% just by taking it home- incredible.

You mean my 87 Iroc w/ T-Tops and louvered back windows was a bad investment? :D8p

JimN
09-29-2008, 09:10 PM
Did you buy it new?

Maybe not, in that case but when someone buys a car that amounts to half of their new money, it's usually a Chevelle or something. No offense about the TA, I was referring more to the worst versions of it.

brucemac
09-29-2008, 09:10 PM
Actually it isn't. In 1987 the Dow dropped 22.6%. To equal that the Dow would have to drop 2,519 pts. In spite of that 1n 1987 the yr. ended with a gain!

huh, guess you can't believe everything you hear/read...maybe it was largest percentage drop

swear i read something like that on msnbc or cnnfn...

my bad

alletric
09-29-2008, 09:12 PM
I realize that this is not for most of us but if you want a gas guzzling Suburban now is the time to buy. My local chevy dealer has 2008 LTZ Suburban loaded out with nav, 4X4 and all dropped from a list of 62,000 to 36,900. Gots to move them. They are about to cost him more money than he would have made on the sales to begin with. Problem is if you take him an suv on trade he won't take it. Again if you got the cash and are stable you can make some bones for sure.

alletric
09-29-2008, 09:14 PM
huh, guess you can't believe everything you hear/read...maybe it was largest percentage drop

swear i read something like that on msnbc or cnnfn...

my bad

I heard the same thing. Maybe it was the largest point drop as oposed to the largest percentage drop in 87?

brucemac
09-29-2008, 09:20 PM
sorry, biggest point loss ever...

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm?postversion=2008092918

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks skidded Monday, with the Dow slumping nearly 778 points, in the biggest single-day point loss ever...

TMCNo1
09-29-2008, 09:23 PM
huh, guess you can't believe everything you hear/read...maybe it was largest percentage drop

swear i read something like that on msnbc or cnnfn...

my bad


Don't worry about it, it's Global Warming causing it all!

TX.X-30 fan
09-29-2008, 09:23 PM
You mean my 87 Iroc w/ T-Tops and louvered back windows was a bad investment? :D8p




No not at all, merely bad taste. 8p

TX.X-30 fan
09-29-2008, 09:25 PM
I realize that this is not for most of us but if you want a gas guzzling Suburban now is the time to buy. My local chevy dealer has 2008 LTZ Suburban loaded out with nav, 4X4 and all dropped from a list of 62,000 to 36,900. Gots to move them. They are about to cost him more money than he would have made on the sales to begin with. Problem is if you take him an suv on trade he won't take it. Again if you got the cash and are stable you can make some bones for sure.





I paid more for one in 99.

brucemac
09-29-2008, 09:31 PM
Don't worry about it, it's Global Warming causing it all!


haahhaaaa it was pretty hot hear today!! 8p

mattsn
09-29-2008, 09:34 PM
largest drop in history

pretty scary stuff right there

The percentage was only 7%. The number of shares traded was very low. A few trades can make a big difference. Problems? Yes, but let the market deal with it and let the government do what they do best,....making proclamations!!!

Maristar210
09-29-2008, 11:11 PM
I ain't readin' all that ****, did JimN jerk it off or not??

Workin' 4 Toys
09-29-2008, 11:31 PM
blowing most of it on a Trans Am or something that will lose 40% just by taking it home- incredible.
Make mine a 1974 SD455:D It's not the first thing I'd buy, but it's on the list.....8p

rhsprostar
09-30-2008, 12:16 AM
So, maybe now is the time to buy? :o

Not a bad idea but with what........the extra $200k i keep under the mattress?

shepherd
09-30-2008, 12:54 AM
Not a bad idea but with what........the extra $200k i keep under the mattress?

I'm thinking I can sell my SUV, take the $100, invest it in some blue chips, and 10 years from now it will be worth $100,000!!!!! :woohoo:

But seriously, if someone had a diversified portfolio, he could maybe take some of his cash assets and change those into equity shares. Just a thought...

JimN
09-30-2008, 01:24 AM
Or a mix of equity stocks and something that pays good dividends, which are reinvested.

TMCNo1
09-30-2008, 07:06 AM
So, maybe now is the time to buy? :o


Hookers, invest in hookers!:rolleyes::D

shepherd
09-30-2008, 09:35 AM
Hookers, invest in hookers!:rolleyes::D

So, I guess you're saying it's time to rent rather than buy. :D

.

trickskier
09-30-2008, 09:51 AM
I just watched President Bush speak and he said yesterday's drop in the DOW represented over a "TRILLION DOLLARS".

atlfootr
09-30-2008, 10:09 AM
I just watched President Bush speak and he said yesterday's drop in the DOW represented over a "TRILLION DOLLARS".

What is a trillion dollars? (http://100777.com/node/455)


That's 12 zeroes to the left of the decimal point.

A trillion is a million million dollars.

Broken down in laymen terms, looks something like this ...

A trillion dollars = $1,000,000,000,000.

wakeX2wake
09-30-2008, 10:13 AM
Don't worry about it, it's Global Warming causing it all!

haven't you learned by now Harold... global warming is G. Dubs fault so he's really the root of this problem...

Hookers, invest in hookers!:rolleyes::D

you're right Harold... invest in people not companies... Hookers... when we're all blacked out and can't leave our house... well... good idea Harold... you're a man ahead of your time

wakeX2wake
09-30-2008, 10:16 AM
A Trillion Dollars?
40790

jmac197
09-30-2008, 10:31 AM
For information on the root cause of this mess see.......


http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&artnum=1&issue=20080924


'nuff said

rhsprostar
09-30-2008, 10:38 AM
I'm thinking I can sell my SUV, take the $100, invest it in some blue chips, and 10 years from now it will be worth $100,000!!!!! :woohoo:

But seriously, if someone had a diversified portfolio, he could maybe take some of his cash assets and change those into equity shares. Just a thought...

Your boys must be bigger than my boys then! Go for it!

shepherd
09-30-2008, 10:40 AM
I just watched President Bush speak and he said yesterday's drop in the DOW represented over a "TRILLION DOLLARS".


Those are just paper losses.

Money doesn't just disappear. It just gets redistributed. My question is: Who got the trillion dollars that was "lost"???

6ballsisall
09-30-2008, 10:49 AM
Those are just paper losses.

Money doesn't just disappear. It just gets redistributed. My question is: Who got the trillion dollars that was "lost"???

Tell that to someone who is very close to retirement and see if they feel reassured. (no, I'm not close to retirement ;) )

trickskier
09-30-2008, 11:41 AM
What is a trillion dollars? (http://100777.com/node/455)


That's 12 zeroes to the left of the decimal point.

A trillion is a million million dollars.

Broken down in laymen terms, looks something like this ...

A trillion dollars = $1,000,000,000,000.

Slightly more than I make.......................8p

trickskier
09-30-2008, 11:43 AM
Those are just paper losses.

Money doesn't just disappear. It just gets redistributed. My question is: Who got the trillion dollars that was "lost"???

Tell that to someone who is very close to retirement and see if they feel reassured. (no, I'm not close to retirement ;) )

Yeah, well my 401K took a big paper loss yesterday..................8p

bbymgr
09-30-2008, 11:44 AM
For information on the root cause of this mess see.......


http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&artnum=1&issue=20080924


'nuff said


Good article!! Although this isn't just the Freddie and Fannie show. There are a ton of other companies that jumped on the same wagon and fueled the fire. I also think these companies need to take some responsibility for themselves. Just because the rules changed that said they could.........doesn't mean they should.

RexDog1
09-30-2008, 11:49 AM
Slightly more than I make.......................8p




$1 trillion would be enough money to buy about a 1,000 boxes of Girl Scout cookies for every person in the United States. A trillion barrels of oil would — at current consumption levels — fuel the world for about 33 years.:(

JimN
09-30-2008, 11:52 AM
But it was the policy changes that allowed this mess to happen.

bbymgr
09-30-2008, 12:01 PM
But it was the policy changes that allowed this mess to happen.

Agreed. My point is that the policy changes allowed the companies to do this, they didn't have to. We personally have many different avenues to choose from when it comes to our investments. Some are riskier than others. If someone chooses to invest everything or a majority in "high risk" investments, they assume the responsibility that they could potentially gain a lot more, or they could loose a lot more. I'm not faulting the companies for making the decisions they did, I'm just saying they knew there was more risk going into it.

JimN
09-30-2008, 12:12 PM
"My point is that the policy changes allowed the companies to do this, they didn't have to."

Go out and find a group of investors who wouldn't jump all over something that they thought would make them incredibly wealthy in a short time. It won't take long. People are attracted to piles of money and this is no exception. Also, "high risk" investments are where the biggest gains are realized. The people who were involved in this and made a killing without doing anything "illegal" don't give a rat's azz about losing their jobs. They also don't give a rat's azz about the country- they just want to be wealthy because money has no conscience.

People say that "money is the root of evil" but that's not a complete quote- it's "The love of money is the root of all evil".

6ballsisall
09-30-2008, 12:17 PM
"My point is that the policy changes allowed the companies to do this, they didn't have to."

Go out and find a group of investors who wouldn't jump all over something that they thought would make them incredibly wealthy in a short time. It won't take long. People are attracted to piles of money and this is no exception. Also, "high risk" investments are where the biggest gains are realized. The people who were involved in this and made a killing without doing anything "illegal" don't give a rat's azz about losing their jobs. They also don't give a rat's azz about the country- they just want to be wealthy because money has no conscience.

People say that "money is the root of evil" but that's not a complete quote- it's "The love of money is the root of all evil".

Exactly.........

Monte
09-30-2008, 12:23 PM
So, should I be buying in today? Looking at Duke Power, BB&T, and 5/3 Bank.

TMCNo1
09-30-2008, 12:31 PM
So, should I be buying in today? Looking at Duke Power, BB&T, and 5/3 Bank.

And hookers, today they're going 3 for the price of 2, plus cash rewards!

jmac197
09-30-2008, 12:32 PM
But the banks were pressured into making such loans, it was not as if they had a choice.

From the linked article:

"The rewrite, as City Journal noted back in 2000, "made getting a satisfactory CRA rating harder." Banks were given strict new numerical quotas and measures for the level of "diversity" in their loan portfolios. Getting a good CRA rating was key for a bank that wanted to expand or merge with another.
Loans started being made on the basis of race, and often little else.
"Bank examiners would use federal home-loan data, broken down by neighborhood, income group and race, to rate banks on performance," wrote Howard Husock, a scholar at the Manhattan Institute."


From Wikipedia



"In early 1993 President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States) Bill Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton) ordered new regulations for the CRA which would increase access to mortgage credit for inner city and distressed rural communities.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act#cite_note-6) The new rules went into effect on January 31, 1995 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995) and featured: requiring strictly numerical assessments to get a satisfactory CRA rating; using federal home-loan data broken down by neighborhood, income group, and race; encouraging community groups to complain when banks were not loaning enough to specified neighborhood, income group, and race; allowing community groups that marketed loans to targeted groups to collect a fee from the banks.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act#cite_note-Husock-3)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act#cite_note-Braunstein-5)
The new rules, during a time when many banks were merging and needed to pass the CRA review process to do so, substantially increased the number and aggregate amount of loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers for home loans, some of which were "risky mortgages." The number of CRA mortgage loans increased by 39 percent between 1993 and 1998, while other loans increased by only 17 percent.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act#cite_note-7)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act#cite_note-8) Banks set up CRA departments, a CRA consultant industry was created and new financial-services firms helped banks invest in packaged portfolios of CRA loans to ensure compliance. Established and new community groups began marketing such mortgages. The Senate Banking Committee estimated that as of 2000, as a result of CRA, such groups had received $9.5 billion in services and salaries. As of that time such groups also had received tens of billions of dollars in multi-year commitments from banks, including ACORN Housing $760 million; Boston-based Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America $3 billion; a New Jersey Citizen Action-led coalition $13 billion; the Massachusetts Affordable Housing Alliance $220 million."


Now Wiki has several links to articles arguing that the CRA was not the cause, I suppose we would be remiss if we did not post both sides of the story and let each of us make our own decisions.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

Although....I think we know where I stand...:)

Jesus_Freak
09-30-2008, 01:38 PM
People say that "money is the root of evil" but that's not a complete quote- it's "The love of money is the root of all evil".

Pertinent quotation from an excellent source ;)

6ballsisall
09-30-2008, 01:46 PM
Pertinent quotation from an excellent source ;)

TRU DAT :worthy:

jeverett
09-30-2008, 02:00 PM
Actually gentlmen this could be debated but I believe it is "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". That is not to say that money is evil just the love and worship of it causes many problems, in ones life. I know many people that are blessed with large sums and they are not evil nor greedy, in fact I know them to be some of the most generous people in the world. Ones view of money is dependant on ones perspective and past history with money. Some people believe that if one is wealthy then they had to lie, cheat, and steal to get that money, yet others believe; as I, that it just takes hard work and perserverance. One should try not to kick the person below you in the face when you clime the ladder of success, and if you do quickly apologize and keep going!

A very wealthy friend of mine once said that there isn't much that money can't fix, with the exception of death though many have tried to do this.

TMCNo1
09-30-2008, 02:21 PM
Can we get a official ruling on this?http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_12.gif

TMCNo1
09-30-2008, 02:22 PM
It's not how much money ya got, it's what you do with the money ya do got!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_12.gif

6ballsisall
09-30-2008, 02:23 PM
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Tim. 6:10

Skipper
09-30-2008, 02:45 PM
For an average Joe, like myself, this whole market system is pretty over-whelming. It is hard to imagine that because some greedy Wall Street types, who made bad financial decisions, can drag our economy into the dumpster. What is even worse is when these guys companies fall apart, they walk away with huge severence settlements. I imagine the solution to this crisis would be unconceivably complex. I just hope there are some smart guys figuring some things out right now.

jmac197
09-30-2008, 03:01 PM
Dow up 350 points who would have figured?

Ft Benning RI
09-30-2008, 03:24 PM
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Tim. 6:10

Disagree. Money or the Love of it could be either good or evil.

"Whatever protects and enhances human life is good, and whatever destroys or degrades human life is evil" Major General Clay Buckingham

TX.X-30 fan
09-30-2008, 08:39 PM
For an average Joe, like myself, this whole market system is pretty over-whelming. It is hard to imagine that because some greedy Wall Street types, who made bad financial decisions, can drag our economy into the dumpster. What is even worse is when these guys companies fall apart, they walk away with huge severence settlements. I imagine the solution to this crisis would be unconceivably complex. I just hope there are some smart guys figuring some things out right now.




Sorry this was forced down the throats of lenders, who were happy to make the money lending to people that could barely fog the mirror. Its call low income housing and was mandated by the congress (see dem's).


They can all twist in the wind, many ways to handle this without $70000000000000000000000. We are being taken for an election year ride.

TX.X-30 fan
09-30-2008, 08:41 PM
By the way independent banks in Texas have lots-o-money so Fook wall street and Goldman Sachs and all the money idiots in NY.

Jesus_Freak
10-02-2008, 01:45 PM
Disagree. Money or the Love of it could be either good or evil.

"Whatever protects and enhances human life is good, and whatever destroys or degrades human life is evil" Major General Clay Buckingham

When does the love of money protect, prolong, or secure human life?

Jorski
10-02-2008, 03:14 PM
By the way independent banks in Texas have lots-o-money so Fook wall street and Goldman Sachs and all the money idiots in NY.


All of these banks are reliant upon interbank lending and hold similar assets. Don't think that for a minute that the banks in Texas are somehow immune to all of this.

By the way, the bail out is critical, not to save Wall Street, but to save the international financial system. The world must deleverage...that can be orderly or that can be devastating.

If you choose the latter, there will be a lot collateral and unnecessary damage.

bcampbe7
10-02-2008, 03:21 PM
All of these banks are reliant upon interbank lending and hold similar assets. Don't think that for a minute that the banks in Texas are somehow immune to all of this.

By the way, the bail out is critical, not to save Wall Street, but to save the international financial system. The world must deleverage...that can be orderly or that can be devastating.

If you choose the latter, there will be a lot collateral and unnecessary damage.

So where are you putting your money now that most everything is on sale?

JimN
10-02-2008, 03:31 PM
"Disagree. Money or the Love of it could be either good or evil."

When has the love of money, above all else, been a good thing? Desire for wealth is what got us into this crap in the first place. Not for the people who don't qualify but since FDMA and FNMA are semi-private corporations, shareholders benefited from the initial note purchases and money being shoveled at them and then they went ape shnit with it when all they needed to do, in order to remain solvent, is to step back and say "If we stay on this course, we'll have a major problem in a short while". Oh, sorry, I just quoted MCain without meaning to.

The reply from Barney Frank to this comment, BTW, was that there's no crisis for FDMA or FNMA in the near future. THAT LYING SACK OF SHNIT!

I want Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Bill Clinton and the members of Congress who approved the bill, to be strung up, beaten and then made to pay for this out of their own coffers. Not campaign money, not from donations like Clinton's defense fund (I still can't believe people donated to that), not anonymous "gifts"- out of their own stash of money that they don't pay taxes on.

JimN
10-02-2008, 03:33 PM
"All of these banks are reliant upon interbank lending and hold similar assets."

Right- as I understand it, FNMA and FDMA guarantee the loans and then, if the bank or other lender wants to unload some of their loans to create working capitol to lend and profit from, these two corporations buy the loans to resell. They act like a bridge loan, but for banks instead of individuals.

Jorski
10-02-2008, 03:57 PM
So where are you putting your money now that most everything is on sale

Still time to be very careful. FWIW, gold, and energy.

sand2snow22
10-02-2008, 04:01 PM
energy.

Energy?......

Jorski
10-02-2008, 04:09 PM
Yes...there are large cap energy companies trading at 3 to 4 times cashflow. I also own a property and caualty insurer that happens to be long credit default swaps, and short the s&P 500, and long the 30 year...it is up over $100/share in the last week and a half.

Also starting to look at the large fertilizer stocks...very cheap...but you don't have to be in a hurry.

Skipper
10-02-2008, 04:20 PM
Yes...there are large cap energy companies trading at 3 to 4 times cashflow. I also own a property and caualty insurer that happens to be long credit default swaps, and short the s&P 500, and long the 30 year...it is up over $100/share in the last week and a half.

Also starting to look at the large fertilizer stocks...very cheap...but you don't have to be in a hurry.

Dude, wanna give me some money so I can buy a new ski?

TX.X-30 fan
10-02-2008, 07:51 PM
All of these banks are reliant upon interbank lending and hold similar assets. Don't think that for a minute that the banks in Texas are somehow immune to all of this.
By the way, the bail out is critical, not to save Wall Street, but to save the international financial system. The world must deleverage...that can be orderly or that can be devastating.

If you choose the latter, there will be a lot collateral and unnecessary damage.




Don't put words in my mouth I did not say all Texas banks, And yes the independent banks have money to lend and are healthy in our state. What kind of arrogance does it take to think you are so fuc&ing smart.



Screw the bailout, many other ways to address the situation. For starters there is about 1 trillion in reserves at treasury and FDIC. We need to allow these institutions to move these non-performing assets off balance sheet for a period of time. This will allow for time to value what is in these portfolios. We can offer some insurance and some liquidity as needed but not this wholesale purchase of all this paper. It is a crime to bail these bastards out and I mean the ones on wall street and Washington. Enough is enough they decided affordable housing meant loans for everyone so let the politicians feel the heat.


You know when they pass this crap they plan to allow people to stay in these homes they are not paying for!! The plan now is to recast the loans at 90% of current value and a 2% interest rate fffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuccccccccccccckkkkkkkkk.

Maristar210
10-02-2008, 08:50 PM
Don't put words in my mouth I did not say all Texas banks, And yes the independent banks have money to lend and are healthy in our state. What kind of arrogance does it take to think you are so fuc&ing smart.



Screw the bailout, many other ways to address the situation. For starters there is about 1 trillion in reserves at treasury and FDIC. We need to allow these institutions to move these non-performing assets off balance sheet for a period of time. This will allow for time to value what is in these portfolios. We can offer some insurance and some liquidity as needed but not this wholesale purchase of all this paper. It is a crime to bail these bastards out and I mean the ones on wall street and Washington. Enough is enough they decided affordable housing meant loans for everyone so let the politicians feel the heat.


You know when they pass this crap they plan to allow people to stay in these homes they are not paying for!! The plan now is to recast the loans at 90% of current value and a 2% interest rate fffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuccccccccccccckkkkkkkkk.

another jorski fan huh Tx?

Jorski
10-03-2008, 11:10 AM
Don't put words in my mouth I did not say all Texas banks, And yes the independent banks have money to lend and are healthy in our state. What kind of arrogance does it take to think you are so fuc&ing smart.


First of all: I didn't say that you said "ALL texas banks". re-read my post!

Second: My point is that the assets that banks, including independants, have on their balance sheets are similar and therefore affected. Further, every single bank on the planet is ultimately affected by the rapid increase in LIBOR...there is just no getting around it.

What kind of arrogance does it take to think you are so fuc&ing smart.

What kind of arrogance does it take to write that kind of crap that you post TX ??? Man, you are one angry SOB!!! Whether I'm smart or dumb, I do have an understanding of economics and markets. Here is what I told you guys on this board about the economy two years ago (with reference to a discussion about used boat prices) :

Or here is another take:

The housing bubble/refinance game is now over. IMHO, there are a lot of pretenders who used their house as an ATM and got away with it due to low interest rates and and a constantly rising housing market.

FWIW, I expect that there will be a a significant increase in supply in the "late model used market" over the next 12 to 24 months

http://http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=11326

And later in that same thread specifically about recession:

First let me say that no one knows for sure until it happens. That being said there have been very few "soft landings" in history.

Recession is a normal part of the business cycle, so it would be normal to have one after several years of expansion. In fact the average length of expansion is a little less than 5 years (where we are currently BTW).

IMO, if housing prices continue to roll over, consumer confidence will falter, and then there is almost no possibility of avoiding at least a shallow recession.

Skipper
10-03-2008, 11:52 AM
Somehow this thread has taken a turn for the surreal...:(

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

TMCNo1
10-03-2008, 12:27 PM
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_80.gifTime for a group hug!

TMCNo1
10-03-2008, 12:32 PM
Wells Fargo is buying Wachovia instead of Citigroup Inc, WTH?


NEW YORK(AP) In an abrupt change, Wachovia said Friday it agreed to be acquired by San Francisco-based Wells Fargo & Co. in a $15.1 billion all-stock deal that trumps Citigroup's plan to acquire Wachovia's banking operations and avoids government assistance.

The Citigroup deal would have been done with the help of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., but the Wells Fargo deal for Wachovia will be done without it. Shares of Wachovia and Wells rose in morning trading, while Citigroup shares fell.

"This deal enables us to keep Wachovia intact and preserve the value of an integrated company, without government support," Robert Steel, Wachovia's president and chief executive, said in a statement.

The Wachovia-Wells deal, announced Friday, comes in a turbulent time for banks and financial firms as they grapple with the ongoing credit crisis, which led to the recent bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and the failure of Washington Mutual Inc.

Wachovia Corp. shareholders will receive 0.1991 shares of Wells Fargo for every share of Charlotte, N.C.-based Wachovia stock they own, valuing Wachovia at about $7 per share. This is a nearly 80 percent premium over the stock's Thursday closing price of $3.91. Shares closed at $10 last Friday, the last trading session before the deal with Citigroup Inc. was announced.

The board approved Wells Fargo's offer late Thursday. The deal is still subject to Wachovia shareholder and other regulatory approvals. Wells Fargo said it expects the deal to close by year-end.

"It provides superior value compared to the previous offer to acquire only the banking operations of the company and because Wachovia shareholders will have a meaningful opportunity to participate in the growth and success of a combined Wachovia-Wells Fargo that will be one of the world's great financial services companies," said Wells Fargo Chairman Dick Kovacevich.

Monte
10-03-2008, 12:36 PM
The grapevine tells me that this buyout will allow the some 3000 employees slated for the axe in Charlotte to retain their jobs. Wells Fargo is looking for the operations on the right coast out of the deal, where citigroup was looking to shut it down. Great news for this area..

TX.X-30 fan
10-03-2008, 10:02 PM
First of all: I didn't say that you said "ALL texas banks". re-read my post!

Second: My point is that the assets that banks, including independants, have on their balance sheets are similar and therefore affected. Further, every single bank on the planet is ultimately affected by the rapid increase in LIBOR...there is just no getting around it.



What kind of arrogance does it take to write that kind of crap that you post TX ??? Man, you are one angry SOB!!! Whether I'm smart or dumb, I do have an understanding of economics and markets. Here is what I told you guys on this board about the economy two years ago (with reference to a discussion about used boat prices) :

Or here is another take:

The housing bubble/refinance game is now over. IMHO, there are a lot of pretenders who used their house as an ATM and got away with it due to low interest rates and and a constantly rising housing market.

FWIW, I expect that there will be a a significant increase in supply in the "late model used market" over the next 12 to 24 months

http://http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=11326

And later in that same thread specifically about recession:

First let me say that no one knows for sure until it happens. That being said there have been very few "soft landings" in history.

Recession is a normal part of the business cycle, so it would be normal to have one after several years of expansion. In fact the average length of expansion is a little less than 5 years (where we are currently BTW).

IMO, if housing prices continue to roll over, consumer confidence will falter, and then there is almost no possibility of avoiding at least a shallow recession.





In your mind you are always correct, I did not disagree with you about lending practices back then at all. Listen jorski I am not an angry SOB I feel like you are very condescending at times on this site, I have been here for a while and have found for the most part some damn smart folks on here (except JimN cause he is autistic) and I respect them.

I would not be the only one here to think you take a sense of joy when our country is having problems, this confuses me.

Have a nice weekend Jorski, water getting cold yet???? :D

TX.X-30 fan
10-03-2008, 10:32 PM
The grapevine tells me that this buyout will allow the some 3000 employees slated for the axe in Charlotte to retain their jobs. Wells Fargo is looking for the operations on the right coast out of the deal, where citigroup was looking to shut it down. Great news for this area..




Great to hear that Monte, still a very expensive social experiment in my opinion. Look no further in this debacle for blame than the affordable housing legislation. And now we get to be on the hook forever for folks that won't pay their mortgage payments.... SAD.

Jorski
10-03-2008, 10:43 PM
I would not be the only one here to think you take a sense of joy when our country is having problems, this confuses me.

Not true.

I live in and earn my living in Canada. You are our largest trading partner, and in Ontario (where I live) approximately 70% of our provincial GDP is from exports to the U.S. There is nothing that gives me more joy than a strong and wealthy United States.

That being said, I have no problem presenting an argument that may well be unpopular on this board. When I do bother to post, it will be because it is an area of that I have spent time researching and have given a great deal of thought and consideration.

Condescending? Only to ideology. Frankly can't stand when political belief intrudes upon logic and evidence.

AND, the water is frickin' freezing up here!

dapicatti
10-03-2008, 10:50 PM
The grapevine tells me that this buyout will allow the some 3000 employees slated for the axe in Charlotte to retain their jobs. Wells Fargo is looking for the operations on the right coast out of the deal, where citigroup was looking to shut it down. Great news for this area..

Wells is a very serious operator. I hope for the sake of the shareholders that this is allowed to go through. Citi knew it was getting a steal. This works for everyone, employees, shareholders and Wells. I think its the best fairest option out there. Sorry Citi, you've been outbid.

Way better than the WA MU meltdown we have seen. We know people who have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on this bad deal.....

JimN
10-04-2008, 12:22 AM
In your mind you are always correct, I did not disagree with you about lending practices back then at all. Listen jorski I am not an angry SOB I feel like you are very condescending at times on this site, I have been here for a while and have found for the most part some damn smart folks on here (except JimN cause he is autistic) and I respect them.

I would not be the only one here to think you take a sense of joy when our country is having problems, this confuses me.

Have a nice weekend Jorski, water getting cold yet???? :D

This is fargin' WAR!:rant:

dapicatti
10-04-2008, 04:44 AM
Sorry...JimN is the best of the best....you don't stand a chance

TX.X-30 fan
10-04-2008, 02:40 PM
Sorry...JimN is the best of the best....you don't stand a chance




Would you two like some privacy?? 40954

dapicatti
10-04-2008, 03:07 PM
No, just don't like people being labeled....it is just ignorant.

TX.X-30 fan
10-04-2008, 03:15 PM
No, just don't like people being labeled....it is just ignorant.




Are you calling me ignorant???

TMCNo1
10-05-2008, 02:28 PM
Don't spend it all in one place!
40970

trickskier
10-06-2008, 10:27 AM
DOW down 157 points already this morning.

TMCNo1
10-06-2008, 10:57 AM
Now DJIA is down 237.9 points! The bailout is working!:rolleyes::D

Monte
10-06-2008, 11:04 AM
I have to think it is ignorance. Why in the hell would a judge take this kind of money out of investor pockets? It makes no sense. If I have something for sale, and I have two offers, one of which is 13 billion more. I think I am going to take the higher bid. I know it is pocket change per share, but when it is a large portion of someones portfolio. This is why we are in such financial a mess.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/05/business/main4502188.shtml

TMCNo1
10-06-2008, 11:12 AM
I have to think it is ignorance. Why in the hell would a judge take this kind of money out of investor pockets? It makes no sense. If I have something for sale, and I have two offers, one of which is 13 billion more. I think I am going to take the higher bid. I know it is pocket change per share, but when it is a large portion of someones portfolio. This is why we are in such financial a mess.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/05/business/main4502188.shtml


It's our tax money at work!

trickskier
10-06-2008, 11:15 AM
It's our tax money at work!

No, it's the MORON's we've ELECTED!!! :mad:

Monte
10-06-2008, 11:15 AM
It's our tax money at work!

If citi buys it. Yes it is. If Wells Fargo buys it they need no gov't financial backing. At least that is how I understand the deal.

6ballsisall
10-06-2008, 12:35 PM
I have to think it is ignorance. Why in the hell would a judge take this kind of money out of investor pockets? It makes no sense. If I have something for sale, and I have two offers, one of which is 13 billion more. I think I am going to take the higher bid. I know it is pocket change per share, but when it is a large portion of someones portfolio. This is why we are in such financial a mess.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/05/business/main4502188.shtml

We don't know all the details, but if Citi did have a an LOI w/ exclusivity that was countersigned and that exclusivity period wasn't up, then there is something to their claim.

I hope there isn't, I don't care much for Citi, but thinks highly of Wells Fargo.

coz
10-06-2008, 12:38 PM
700 billion ain't gonna do sheet, the whole world's in a panick now
Wall Street tumbles amid global sell-off
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081006/wall_street.html

Skipper
10-06-2008, 01:13 PM
700 billion ain't gonna do sheet, the whole world's in a panick now
Wall Street tumbles amid global sell-off
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081006/wall_street.html

Is that bad? I been out of money all my life. Can't tell the difference. :confused:

Monte
10-06-2008, 01:20 PM
We don't know all the details, but if Citi did have a an LOI w/ exclusivity that was countersigned and that exclusivity period wasn't up, then there is something to their claim.

I hope there isn't, I don't care much for Citi, but thinks highly of Wells Fargo.

From what I understand. The shareholders never voted to allow Citi to come in and make the purchase. I wish I could make 19mil in one month just to come in and kill a company.

TMCNo1
10-06-2008, 01:45 PM
DJIA down 521.61 points so far today!

Willski
10-06-2008, 03:09 PM
Buy Buy Buy!!

trickskier
10-07-2008, 05:09 PM
Dow closes down 508.39

CoorsLight
10-07-2008, 05:10 PM
*** kicking for sure...

Where's the soup line?

TMCNo1
10-07-2008, 05:26 PM
DJIA down today another -508.39 points to 9447.11.

trickskier
10-07-2008, 06:39 PM
*** kicking for sure...

Where's the soup line?

I'm already in it....................8p

TMCNo1
10-07-2008, 07:33 PM
Lynn and I are going to the Dixie Classic Fair here tomorrow night and it's Lowe's Foods Night and you can bring 5 cans of Lowes Food products per person to get in instead of paying and the food is then distributed to the Food Bank. Here shortly, we may be eating our own canned goods we gave!:rolleyes::D

brucemac
10-07-2008, 07:49 PM
funny stuff right here:
http://gizmodo.com/5060256/yep-were-screwed-national-debt-clock-runs-out-of-numbers

well not really funny, but err..you know what i mean...

Footin
10-07-2008, 08:52 PM
Stock market is on sale! Time to buy!

6ballsisall
10-07-2008, 09:24 PM
Stock market is on sale! Time to buy!

Nah, not yet. Buying right now is like trying to catch falling knives. Give it a bit more time, buy selectively until then. :twocents:

RexDog1
10-08-2008, 11:53 AM
................. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_8_13.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMNUS) ............................... http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMNUS)

coz
10-08-2008, 05:22 PM
Under the leadership of these fools the US economy is in the trash. But these guys don't need to worry :mad: they have enough money to support themselves and 3 or 4 family generations to come. I hope they find illegal practices on these so called leaders and jail them :mad:

As banks broke down, CEOs cashed in


CEO: Countrywide
If the home-mortgage mess has a ground zero, it's Countrywide Financial. Under the leadership of Angelo Mozilo, Countrywide helped fuel the housing bubble by writing thousands of questionable subprime mortgages -- the kind used to create the toxic mortgage-backed securities that taxpayers are now being asked to clean up. A spike in bad loans hammered Countrywide in 2007, and in January it agreed to be purchased by Bank of America. Mozilo's total take-home pay for 2005-07 was $361.7 million, most of it from gains on options, according to Equilar.

CEO: Fannie Mae
Fannie Mae fueled the housing bubble by guaranteeing more and more risky loans and purchasing too much subprime debt. Things got so bad that the government stepped in and took control of Fannie in September. Shareholders got wiped out, and CEO Daniel Mudd was denied a golden parachute worth $9.8 million, by one estimate. But he still took home $11.6 million during the boom years of 2005-07, according to Equilar, including $8.3 million in bonus pay. Experts trace the history of many of Fannie's problems to predecessor Franklin Raines, who left in an accounting scandal and later agreed to pay $24.7 million to settle civil charges. But Mudd was at the wheel when the ship went down.

CEO: Freddie Mac

Like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac fed the frenzy by backing too many risky loans. It was also taken over by the government after conditions worsened this summer. Freddie Mac shareholders got wiped out, and the fiasco contributed to fears that bad mortgage debt would take down the economy. But former Freddie Mac CEO Richard Syron did just fine. He took home $12.9 million from 2005-07, according to Equilar, including $8 million in bonuses. But regulators did snag his golden parachute, worth an estimated $9.8 million.

CEO: Bear Stearns

Bear Stearns was the first Wall Street giant to hit the skids. It was about to collapse last March when the Fed guaranteed up to $29 billion in bad mortgage-related assets. JPMorgan Chase could then stomach a takeover. CEO James Cayne, who left in January, lost millions on Bear stock during the plunge. But he had also cashed out millions in stock before the fall. He took home $42.3 million in his final three years on the job, 2005-07, Equilar says, including $29.8 million in bonus pay for accomplishments that included leading Bear Stearns into the arena of mortgage-backed securities.

CEO: Leaham Bros.

Lehman Bros. filed for bankruptcy protection in early September after it was unable to secure the kind of government backing for a corporate buyout mustered by Bear Stearns. The chief obstacle was concern about a $30 billion portfolio of shaky commercial-real-estate assets compiled under the watch of CEO Richard Fuld. Lehman filed for bankruptcy, investors were wiped out, and employees lost their jobs. But Fuld walked away with $186.5 million in earnings from the prior three years, Equilar says. Fuld, who defended his compensation while testifying before a congressional panel on Oct. 6, got most of that by cashing out options. But he also took home $36.8 million in bonus and incentive pay.

CEO: AIG

Under the leadership of CEO Martin Sullivan, giant insurer American International Group got itself in deep trouble through the use of exotic financial products known as credit default swaps. As the housing sector unraveled this year, AIG reported a string of surprise losses. By September, the insurer needed an $85 billion bailout from the Federal Reserve to avoid bankruptcy. AIG shareholders were virtually wiped out in the deal. But Sullivan, who got the boot in June, came out of it a multimillionaire. He raked in $25.4 million in take-home pay over three years,

CEO: Merril Lynch

Under Stan O'Neal, Merrill Lynch was one of the most industrious of the Wall Street toxic-debt machines, churning out the types of securities that the government now says it must buy to save the economy. Merrill Lynch took more than $10 billion in write-downs on bad debt in the second quarter. Fears about much more to come forced Merrill to accept a buyout from Bank of America to avoid disaster. O'Neal left Merrill a year ago with $66 million in earnings under his belt for 2005-07. That included $32.6 million in bonuses,

CEO Washington Mutual

Under the leadership of Kerry Killinger, Washington Mutual plunged headfirst into the kinds of adjustable-rate mortgages and home-equity loans that were destined to go bad when homeowners could not refinance. The largest U.S. savings and loan faced losses from residential mortgages of as much as $19 billion through 2011 when regulators seized it on Sept. 25. But Killinger, who got bounced in September, should have plenty of cash. He took home $36 million in 2005-07, according to Equilar. That included $11 million in bonus pay for his performance.

CEO: Wachovia

Bad loans piled up too high at Wachovia; in the second quarter of 2008 alone, the bank reported an $8.9 billion loss. The chief culprit: "pick-a-pay" loans that came in the door when Wachovia bought California thrift Golden West Financial in 2006. Golden West specialized in those risky mortgages. Finally, on Sept. 29., months of speculation ended with news Citigroup will acquire Wachovia in a deal arranged by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. CEO G. Kennedy Thompson, who left in June, did well during his tenure. He took home $16 million during 2005-07, including $10 million in bonus pay,

CEO: Citi Group

Citigroup was another of the toxic-debt machines during the housing boom. Now its shareholders are paying the price. Citigroup has taken more than $57 billion in write-downs and losses since the crunch hit, and analysts expect much more. Citigroup has been forced to cut its dividend and raise more than $30 billion. The man at the helm while the mess developed was CEO Charles Prince, who has since left the company. He earned $35.6 million in bonus pay during the boom years of 2005-07 and took home a total of $41.5 million.

6ballsisall
10-08-2008, 09:28 PM
Good info Coz. Among those so called "leaders" I'd like to see the culprits in this Youtube video under serious scrutiny as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj3YezuNuQo


Under the leadership of these fools the US economy is in the trash. But these guys don't need to worry :mad: they have enough money to support themselves and 3 or 4 family generations to come. I hope they find illegal practices on these so called leaders and jail them :mad:

As banks broke down, CEOs cashed in


CEO: Countrywide
If the home-mortgage mess has a ground zero, it's Countrywide Financial. Under the leadership of Angelo Mozilo, Countrywide helped fuel the housing bubble by writing thousands of questionable subprime mortgages -- the kind used to create the toxic mortgage-backed securities that taxpayers are now being asked to clean up. A spike in bad loans hammered Countrywide in 2007, and in January it agreed to be purchased by Bank of America. Mozilo's total take-home pay for 2005-07 was $361.7 million, most of it from gains on options, according to Equilar.

CEO: Fannie Mae
Fannie Mae fueled the housing bubble by guaranteeing more and more risky loans and purchasing too much subprime debt. Things got so bad that the government stepped in and took control of Fannie in September. Shareholders got wiped out, and CEO Daniel Mudd was denied a golden parachute worth $9.8 million, by one estimate. But he still took home $11.6 million during the boom years of 2005-07, according to Equilar, including $8.3 million in bonus pay. Experts trace the history of many of Fannie's problems to predecessor Franklin Raines, who left in an accounting scandal and later agreed to pay $24.7 million to settle civil charges. But Mudd was at the wheel when the ship went down.

CEO: Freddie Mac

Like Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac fed the frenzy by backing too many risky loans. It was also taken over by the government after conditions worsened this summer. Freddie Mac shareholders got wiped out, and the fiasco contributed to fears that bad mortgage debt would take down the economy. But former Freddie Mac CEO Richard Syron did just fine. He took home $12.9 million from 2005-07, according to Equilar, including $8 million in bonuses. But regulators did snag his golden parachute, worth an estimated $9.8 million.

CEO: Bear Stearns

Bear Stearns was the first Wall Street giant to hit the skids. It was about to collapse last March when the Fed guaranteed up to $29 billion in bad mortgage-related assets. JPMorgan Chase could then stomach a takeover. CEO James Cayne, who left in January, lost millions on Bear stock during the plunge. But he had also cashed out millions in stock before the fall. He took home $42.3 million in his final three years on the job, 2005-07, Equilar says, including $29.8 million in bonus pay for accomplishments that included leading Bear Stearns into the arena of mortgage-backed securities.

CEO: Leaham Bros.

Lehman Bros. filed for bankruptcy protection in early September after it was unable to secure the kind of government backing for a corporate buyout mustered by Bear Stearns. The chief obstacle was concern about a $30 billion portfolio of shaky commercial-real-estate assets compiled under the watch of CEO Richard Fuld. Lehman filed for bankruptcy, investors were wiped out, and employees lost their jobs. But Fuld walked away with $186.5 million in earnings from the prior three years, Equilar says. Fuld, who defended his compensation while testifying before a congressional panel on Oct. 6, got most of that by cashing out options. But he also took home $36.8 million in bonus and incentive pay.

CEO: AIG

Under the leadership of CEO Martin Sullivan, giant insurer American International Group got itself in deep trouble through the use of exotic financial products known as credit default swaps. As the housing sector unraveled this year, AIG reported a string of surprise losses. By September, the insurer needed an $85 billion bailout from the Federal Reserve to avoid bankruptcy. AIG shareholders were virtually wiped out in the deal. But Sullivan, who got the boot in June, came out of it a multimillionaire. He raked in $25.4 million in take-home pay over three years,

CEO: Merril Lynch

Under Stan O'Neal, Merrill Lynch was one of the most industrious of the Wall Street toxic-debt machines, churning out the types of securities that the government now says it must buy to save the economy. Merrill Lynch took more than $10 billion in write-downs on bad debt in the second quarter. Fears about much more to come forced Merrill to accept a buyout from Bank of America to avoid disaster. O'Neal left Merrill a year ago with $66 million in earnings under his belt for 2005-07. That included $32.6 million in bonuses,

CEO Washington Mutual

Under the leadership of Kerry Killinger, Washington Mutual plunged headfirst into the kinds of adjustable-rate mortgages and home-equity loans that were destined to go bad when homeowners could not refinance. The largest U.S. savings and loan faced losses from residential mortgages of as much as $19 billion through 2011 when regulators seized it on Sept. 25. But Killinger, who got bounced in September, should have plenty of cash. He took home $36 million in 2005-07, according to Equilar. That included $11 million in bonus pay for his performance.

CEO: Wachovia

Bad loans piled up too high at Wachovia; in the second quarter of 2008 alone, the bank reported an $8.9 billion loss. The chief culprit: "pick-a-pay" loans that came in the door when Wachovia bought California thrift Golden West Financial in 2006. Golden West specialized in those risky mortgages. Finally, on Sept. 29., months of speculation ended with news Citigroup will acquire Wachovia in a deal arranged by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. CEO G. Kennedy Thompson, who left in June, did well during his tenure. He took home $16 million during 2005-07, including $10 million in bonus pay,

CEO: Citi Group

Citigroup was another of the toxic-debt machines during the housing boom. Now its shareholders are paying the price. Citigroup has taken more than $57 billion in write-downs and losses since the crunch hit, and analysts expect much more. Citigroup has been forced to cut its dividend and raise more than $30 billion. The man at the helm while the mess developed was CEO Charles Prince, who has since left the company. He earned $35.6 million in bonus pay during the boom years of 2005-07 and took home a total of $41.5 million.

dapicatti
10-08-2008, 11:54 PM
Another great Youtube find.

6ballsisall
10-09-2008, 12:07 AM
Another great Youtube find.

Can't take credit for finding that, another TT'er did over on the Random Video thread

Roonie's
10-09-2008, 12:09 AM
Can't take credit for finding that, another TT'er did over on the Random Video thread

Too bad it isn't true..... I guess it is a sign of the times when you tube videos become a credible news source.

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html

TX.X-30 fan
10-09-2008, 09:54 AM
Too bad it isn't true..... I guess it is a sign of the times when you tube videos become a credible news source.

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html





That article shows a high degree of ignorance about the Mortgage lending business. When FNMA, FHLMC and FHA lowered standards for purchasing loans as a result of congressional mandates on low income loans in lenders portfolio's all this sub-prime market was created.

Loans that met these lowered standards approved by FNMA and others now were marketable securities because the GSA's had approved them thus putting their stamp of approval on the loan.

Look no further than the Dems in congress that used these GSA's as personal piggy banks You tell me how and why would Jammie Gerrelick(sp) have a job in that industry?? How about barney franks boyfriend working at Fannie, by the way I think he makes pottery now or some such Sh!t. Personal piggy bank to fund campaigns and doll out political favors.



Ah too bad it is true!!

bbymgr
10-09-2008, 10:07 AM
Look no further than the Dems in congress that used these GSA's as personal piggy banks



Ah too bad it is true!!

That's a bunch of crap!! All politicians had a hand in that kitty. I don't care if they are Republicans, Democrats or whatever...... they all tried to pad there billfold in this. Your paranoia towards the Dems is sad. Take off the blinders and realize they are all crooked.

6ballsisall
10-09-2008, 10:13 AM
That's a bunch of crap!! All politicians had a hand in that kitty. I don't care if they are Republicans, Democrats or whatever...... they all tried to pad there billfold in this. Your paranoia towards the Dems is sad. Take off the blinders and realize they are all crooked.

I say we can em' all and start fresh. :D


I LOVE who the Guberment is now saying they are contemplating buying shares into banks. Thats excellent..........they can't manage their own budget yet they want to tell other banks and everyone else how to manage theirs. Fantastic! :rolleyes:

TX.X-30 fan
10-09-2008, 10:17 AM
That's a bunch of crap!! All politicians had a hand in that kitty. I don't care if they are Republicans, Democrats or whatever...... they all tried to pad there billfold in this. Your paranoia towards the Dems is sad. Take off the blinders and realize they are all crooked.






Listen you are the last person I need advise from son. You are blind my compadre, guess you are looking forward to Franklin Rains as new treasury secretary.

Funny how you do not point out what I stated was inaccurate.... Why..... because you don't have a clue about anything I posted. Naive is only cute on high schools girls to high school boys.

6ballsisall
10-09-2008, 10:20 AM
So how about that Dow??

Whats everyone doing this weekend?? :popcorn::popcorn:

bbymgr
10-09-2008, 10:20 AM
.......they can't manage their own budget yet they want to tell other banks and everyone else how to manage theirs. Fantastic! :rolleyes:


Well if that works for them............. then I'm taking my 20+ golf handicap and starting to give lessons. Any takers????

6ballsisall
10-09-2008, 10:23 AM
Well if that works for them............. then I'm taking my 20+ golf handicap and starting to give lessons. Any takers????

You bet! I think I'll make like Carlton Sheets and teach everyone how to become billionaires in real estate too....... :uglyhamme Because afterall, i've done "so" well at it........

bbymgr
10-09-2008, 10:24 AM
Listen you are the last person I need advise from son. You are blind my compadre, guess you are looking forward to Franklin Rains as new treasury secretary.

Funny how you do not point out what I stated was inaccurate.... Why..... because you don't have a clue about anything I posted. Naive is only cute on high schools girls to high school boys.


I pity your you and your ignorance.

coz
10-09-2008, 10:25 AM
So how about that Dow??

Whats everyone doing this weekend?? :popcorn::popcorn:

Cashing out my 401K before it becomes nothing :mad:

TX.X-30 fan
10-09-2008, 10:35 AM
I pity your you and your ignorance.





No facts just a personal attack.


By the way that is grounds for removal from TT smart guy. So typical. 8p

jmac197
10-09-2008, 10:36 AM
Too bad it isn't true..... I guess it is a sign of the times when you tube videos become a credible news source.

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html


There were no facts in that article to base any decision on. For example, the article states
"Finally, keep in mind that the Bush administration has been weakening CRA enforcement and the law’s reach since the day it took office."
but never says how or what was done to weaken the CRA. Why? Because there are no supporting facts.

Be careful what you read. If it is an opinion piece, read it as that. Unless the articles contain verifiable facts, I treat them as opinion, especially on the Internet.

coz
10-09-2008, 10:37 AM
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee285/iansanity/dead_thread.jpg

TX.X-30 fan
10-09-2008, 10:43 AM
There were no facts in that article to base any decision on. For example, the article states
"Finally, keep in mind that the Bush administration has been weakening CRA enforcement and the law’s reach since the day it took office."
but never says how or what was done to weaken the CRA. Why? Because there are no supporting facts.

Be careful what you read. If it is an opinion piece, read it as that. Unless the articles contain verifiable facts, I treat them as opinion, especially on the Internet.





Well stated!!


The committee meeting in the video actually happened in 2004, there was actually a regulator there with his report stating that these GSA's were in deep Sheet. That is a fact, and the testimony from the democrats that everything in their opinons was running swiftly is also fact.



Edit: I never stated this represented the scope of the whole problem, it is of course a multi faceted malfunction of out system.

bbymgr
10-09-2008, 10:45 AM
No facts just a personal attack.


8p

There was no personal attack. In your previous post you said my opinion was naive. In turn, I feel your paranoia that the Dems are to blame for everything, including the 10 Plagues of Egypt, is ignorant. By the way, I am a Republican, and will be voting so.:D:D:D

TX.X-30 fan
10-09-2008, 10:50 AM
There was no personal attack. In your previous post you said my opinion was naive. In turn, I feel your paranoia that the Dems are to blame for everything, including the 10 Plagues of Egypt, is ignorant. By the way, I am a Republican, and will be voting so.:D:D:D



And I'm a pre-op transvestite that looks stunning in heels. :D

Maristar210
10-09-2008, 10:53 AM
I pity your you and your ignorance.

You what?



You "pity your you"?



You lost me after pity :o

bbymgr
10-09-2008, 10:54 AM
[/B]



And I'm a pre-op transvestite that looks stunning in heels. :D

WOW!!! While skiing, do you wear a bikini or mens trunks? Must be tough for the family.

Maristar210
10-09-2008, 10:54 AM
CHANGE?


That's all you will have in your pockets before this is over..... is change... :(

TX.X-30 fan
10-09-2008, 10:58 AM
CHANGE?


That's all you will have in your pockets before this is over..... is change... :(




Hey 210 morning, I have not checked my 401 do you thing its dropped??

TX.X-30 fan
10-09-2008, 11:00 AM
WOW!!! While skiing, do you wear a bikini or mens trunks? Must be tough for the family.





No a one piece, bikini's make my hips look wide. They have adjusted well, actually the wife likes it, instead of date night we have girls night out. :D

RexDog1
10-09-2008, 11:01 AM
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:.............. .................

bbymgr
10-09-2008, 11:04 AM
No a one piece, bikini's make my hips look wide. They have adjusted well, actually the wife likes it, instead of date night we have girls night out. :D

I give.........good come back. That was hilarious!!LOL:D:D

coz
10-09-2008, 11:05 AM
[/B]



And I'm a pre-op transvestite that looks stunning in heels. :D

Was that you I saw at the drag races in L.A.?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/2927032450_a2d85d6fd0_o.jpg

Roonie's
10-09-2008, 11:06 AM
There were no facts in that article to base any decision on. For example, the article states
"Finally, keep in mind that the Bush administration has been weakening CRA enforcement and the law’s reach since the day it took office."
but never says how or what was done to weaken the CRA. Why? Because there are no supporting facts.

Be careful what you read. If it is an opinion piece, read it as that. Unless the articles contain verifiable facts, I treat them as opinion, especially on the Internet.

I have yet to get in a political discussion on team talk and I am not about to start..... the point is what people are believing to be true has gotten so crazy that you tube becomes a credible source now. Some posts directly after mine are straight off Rush Limbaugh's blogosphere. It seems the ones wanting to provoke are coming from either right or left wing sources. Personally, I don't care one way or the other as I have already voted. (absentee ballot)

Roonie's
10-09-2008, 11:24 AM
Where is the blame for those folks who borrowed on their first home to buy a second, or to buy a car? Or to just go shopping? The problem with both political parties is they don't want to take any blame and are trying to point fingers at each other. Clearly there are individuals who signed up for loans they knew they couldn't afford and should be equally chastised. Ultimately, the responsibility is to the borrower, not everyone else Just because someone is "qualified" for that amount did not mean they could "afford" a home in that price range.

dapicatti
10-09-2008, 11:47 AM
Don't forget that they were only qualified at the minimum payment, with no expectation of having to be qualified when payments adjusted. Something is wrong with that picture. It's a recipe for disaster...as we are now seeing.

TX.X-30 fan
10-09-2008, 11:50 AM
I have yet to get in a political discussion on team talk and I am not about to start..... the point is what people are believing to be true has gotten so crazy that you tube becomes a credible source now. Some posts directly after mine are straight off Rush Limbaugh's blogosphere. It seems the ones wanting to provoke are coming from either right or left wing sources. Personally, I don't care one way or the other as I have already voted. (absentee ballot)





I was a Mortgage lender for over 10 years, I have a little knowledge of how the thang works.

Maristar210
10-09-2008, 11:54 AM
Hey 210 morning, I have not checked my 401 do you thing its dropped??

LAAAAA
LAAAAAA
LAAAAA
LAAAAA

TMCNo1
10-09-2008, 12:05 PM
Boring,
41082

JimN
10-09-2008, 12:09 PM
Here's an interesting quote from Slick Willie-

"Bill Clinton told ABC's Chris Cuomo that Democrats for years have been "resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.""

Monte
10-09-2008, 12:12 PM
And he could have saved us too. Darn that monica chick:rolleyes:;) All she had to do was keep her mouth shut I mean uh.. Nevermind..

JimN
10-09-2008, 12:12 PM
Where is the blame for those folks who borrowed on their first home to buy a second, or to buy a car? Or to just go shopping? The problem with both political parties is they don't want to take any blame and are trying to point fingers at each other. Clearly there are individuals who signed up for loans they knew they couldn't afford and should be equally chastised. Ultimately, the responsibility is to the borrower, not everyone else Just because someone is "qualified" for that amount did not mean they could "afford" a home in that price range.

This is what happens when people feel that they're entitled to things, or want to look like the "good guy" when they help people get what they want, but don't normally qualify for.

A local radio morning show had someone on, who was a mortgage broker and he said they were told that if the person has a pulse, they should get the loan. I had to jump through hoops for a $9.45 balance on a department store credit card that I didn't even know about and these dirtbags get a loan because they can fog a spoon.

trickskier
10-09-2008, 12:29 PM
Here's an interesting quote from Slick Willie-

"Bill Clinton told ABC's Chris Cuomo that Democrats for years have been "resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.""

Interesting quote....................But that's water under the bridge now..................We have to take the parts we have left and put this economy back together!!!

jmac197
10-09-2008, 12:35 PM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

JimN
10-09-2008, 12:39 PM
Interesting quote....................But that's water under the bridge now..................We have to take the parts we have left and put this economy back together!!!

But we still need accountability, now more than ever. This is the farthest reaching situation where lax oversight caused the markets to tank. Even 9-11 was just a short blip on the screen, compared to this.

coz
10-09-2008, 03:57 PM
Round 2 for the guys at AIG http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/10/08/20081008AIGredux07-ON.html :mad:

TMCNo1
10-09-2008, 04:49 PM
Round 2 for the guys at AIG http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/10/08/20081008AIGredux07-ON.html :mad:

The greedy bastages just don't get it!

TMCNo1
10-09-2008, 05:12 PM
Dow plunges hell!
CNBC showing at 4:10 EDST DJIA down 678.91 points to a low of 8579.19, Holy Crap!

GM shares are the lowest since 1950 when luxury cars cost $2500!

Monte
10-09-2008, 05:22 PM
Damn!!!!!!!!!!!

brucemac
10-09-2008, 05:26 PM
...because they can fog a spoon.

that right there is flat out hilarious. can i use that?! :D

coz
10-09-2008, 06:06 PM
Round 2 for the guys at AIG http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/10/08/20081008AIGredux07-ON.html :mad:


News Flash! Trip has been cancled http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=10121640&ch=4226713&src=news

TMCNo1
10-09-2008, 11:25 PM
Merrill Lynch has joined Bank of America. Look at these pending mergers:



Maybe I shouldn't give you some of these, but here goes: Investment tips for 2008 for all of you with any money left, be aware of the next expected mergers so that you can get in on the ground floor and make some BIG bucks.

Watch for these consolidations in 2008.

1.) Hale Business Systems, Mary Kay Cosm etics, Fuller Brush, and W. R. Grace Co. Will merge and become: Hale, Mary, Fuller, Grace.

2.) PolyGram Records, Warner Bros., and Zesta Crackers join forces and become: Poly, Warner Cracker.

3.) 3M will merge with Goodyear and become:
MMMGood.

4. Zippo Manufacturing, Audi Motors, Dofasco, and Dakota Mining will merge and become: ZipAudiDoDa

5. FedEx is expecte d to join its competitor, UPS, and become: FedUP.

6. Fairchild Electronics and Honeywell Computers will become: Fairwell Honeychild.

7. Grey Poupon and Docker Pants are expected to become: PouponPants.

8. Knotts Berry Farm and the National Organization of Women will become: Knott NOW!

And finally

9. Victoria 's Secret and Smith &Wesson will merge under the new name: TittyTittyBang Bang

JimN
10-10-2008, 12:34 AM
that right there is flat out hilarious. can i use that?! :D

One of my accounts lost $13K, so you can probably guess how much it'll cost ya.

RexDog1
10-10-2008, 10:57 AM
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/3/3_8_14.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSYYYYYYMNUS) Today should be fun OHBOY I can’t wait



http://money.aol.com/news/articles/banking/_a/bbdp/black-friday-as-world-markets-plunge/204447?icid=100214839x1210791546x1200654372

coz
10-10-2008, 11:07 AM
One of my accounts lost $13K, so you can probably guess how much it'll cost ya.

I took a beating on my 401k too but my solar and wind stocks actually went up yesterday not much but they did.

Roonie's
10-10-2008, 11:40 AM
I took a beating on my 401k too but my solar and wind stocks actually went up yesterday not much but they did.

Made the mistake of calling my financial guy. Was curious how much I have lost year to date. Not good....... over 100k. Just going to close my eyes during this period and hope for the best. If I sell now it will be a real loss instead of just on paper. We are in it for the long term and will hold out through this mess.

coz
10-10-2008, 11:45 AM
Made the mistake of calling my financial guy. Was curious how much I have lost year to date. Not good....... over 100k. Just going to close my eyes during this period and hope for the best. If I sell now it will be a real loss instead of just on paper. We are in it for the long term and will hold out through this mess.

That's a hit Roon :mad: but they are saying to leave your 401k sitting even keep putting money into it because if everyone cashes out it will send 401k to a certain crash.

BIGBADBLUE
10-10-2008, 11:50 AM
I just upped my percentage I am putting into my 401K ... bargin prices ... I have lost a ton but I have 20 more years until I retire so I have time.

Now is the time to buy

coz
10-10-2008, 12:04 PM
I just upped my percentage I am putting into my 401K ... bargin prices ... I have lost a ton but I have 20 more years until I retire so I have time.

Now is the time to buy

I'm in the same boat BBB :D some of the low cap stocks are at pennies now so it's definetly a good time to buy stocks for the long haul :D


Alternative energy is where you shoud invest IMHO :D

TexasMC230
10-10-2008, 12:10 PM
I just checked my 401k i am down 46% for the year....

Maristar210
10-10-2008, 12:24 PM
I just checked my 401k i am down 46% for the year....

I'll see that and raise you 5.4%

coz
10-11-2008, 03:41 PM
Where's your money?

If you're looking to track down your missing money — figure out who has it now, maybe ask to have it back — you might be disappointed to learn that is was never really money in the first place.

Robert Shiller, an economist at Yale, puts it bluntly: The notion that you lose a pile of money whenever the stock market tanks is a "fallacy." He says the price of a stock has never been the same thing as money — it's simply the "best guess" of what the stock is worth.

"It's in people's minds," Shiller explains. "We're just recording a measure of what people think the stock market is worth. What the people who are willing to trade today — who are very, very few people — are actually trading at. So we're just extrapolating that and thinking, well, maybe that's what everyone thinks it's worth."

Shiller uses the example of an appraiser who values a house at $350,000, a week after saying it was worth $400,000.

"In a sense, $50,000 just disappeared when he said that," he said. "But it's all in the mind."

Though something, of course, is disappearing as markets and real estate values tumble. Even if a share of stock you own isn't a wad of bills in your wallet, even if the value of your home isn't something you can redeem at will, surely you can lose potential money — that is, the money that would be yours to spend if you sold your house or emptied out your mutual funds right now.

And if you're a few months away from retirement, or hoping to sell your house and buy a smaller one to help pay for your kid's college tuition, this "potential money" is something you're counting on to get by. For people who need cash and need it now, this is as real as money gets, whether or not it meets the technical definition of the word.

Still, you run into trouble when you think of that potential money as being the same thing as the cash in your purse or your checking account.

"That's a big mistake," says Dale Jorgenson, an economics professor at Harvard.

There's a key distinction here: While the money in your pocket is unlikely to just vanish into thin air, the money you could have had, if only you'd sold your house or drained your stock-heavy mutual funds a year ago, most certainly can.

"You can't enjoy the benefits of your 401(k) if it's disappeared," Jorgenson explains. "If you had it all in financial stocks and they've all gone down by 80 percent — sorry! That is a permanent loss because those folks aren't coming back. We're gonna have a huge shrinkage in the financial sector."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011/ap_on_bi_ge/where_s_the_money

JimN
10-11-2008, 04:30 PM
For accounting purposes, the shares have a price/cost, but that's just what it takes to buy them. Like anything else, it has a certain 'value' and this is what's lost when the market takes a dump.

I talked to my broker yesterday and he thinks it's about as low as it will go, within a couple of %. He's not a fan of constantly buying and selling, but I asked him to look at everything he has recommended for me, which I went ahead and bought just over a year ago and it's down about 48%, aggregate. I reminded him that every time he recommends and I buy, the market tanks. It always recovers, but if I had just put everything in a money market acc't last fall, I'd be in great shape to snap up some huge deals, which would make more in one group of transactions than he has ever done for my account. He keeps telling me to ride it out, but it's not his money. He told me that he sold a lot earlier this year so he could capture some losses, but all it did was put him in a great cash position to buy now, at a huge discount and that's EXACTLY what he should be doing for his clients. Same result, different wording. If he'd done this for us, we'd be in the position to make 48%, instead of recovering 48%. I'd gladly pay the commissions on the purchase of new funds/stocks/bonds to make money instead of always playing catch-up.

sand2snow22
10-11-2008, 04:34 PM
Jim, you should trade yourself......

JimN
10-11-2008, 04:57 PM
Jim, you should trade yourself......

For what?:confused:

Oh, you mean do my own trading. I was planning to but the market tanked. I had been planning to take some money out of one of the accounts to do just that but it's too much of a hit right now. I may do it anyway. The problem is that I don't want to have to be that involved all the time. My retirement plans have been drastically changed, though, thanks to the lack of morals, ethics in business and the fear of stock holders, who sold off when they should have been holding. I have my eye on some local companies that have performed well in the past and I expect to do well since they have reacted quickly to the changes in their respective markets.

TMCNo1
10-13-2008, 05:12 PM
DJIA was up 936.42 points for the day to 9387.61! Largest one day gain in history, someone is buying!

TMCNo1
10-20-2008, 05:39 PM
DJIA up + 413.21 points to 9265.43!

coz
10-22-2008, 09:23 PM
Looks like a couple exex's aren't getting their vaca pay http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081022/us_nm/us_aig_cuomo_compensation :woohoo:

TMCNo1
10-22-2008, 09:55 PM
Looks like a couple exex's aren't getting their vaca pay http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081022/us_nm/us_aig_cuomo_compensation :woohoo:


It's about time, with the DJIA down -579.12 points to 8454.54

Jorski
10-26-2008, 04:40 PM
It always recovers, but if I had just put everything in a money market acc't last fall, I'd be in great shape to snap up some huge deals, which would make more in one group of transactions than he has ever done for my account. He keeps telling me to ride it out, but it's not his money. He told me that he sold a lot earlier this year so he could capture some losses, but all it did was put him in a great cash position to buy now, at a huge discount and that's EXACTLY what he should be doing for his clients. Same result, different wording. If he'd done this for us, we'd be in the position to make 48%, instead of recovering 48%.

Actually, it would have put you in a position to make nearly 100%, not 48%.

TMCNo1
10-26-2008, 05:37 PM
My wife had her 401K in a safe investment catagory @ 3.1% yearly, she got it out last week after her retirement, rolled it over through our investment advisor at 6.3%/year guarenteed for 7 years, nearly doubling her money by then. She couldn't be happier!

JimN
10-26-2008, 07:08 PM
My wife had her 401K in a safe investment catagory @ 3.1% yearly, she got it out last week after her retirement, rolled it over through our investment advisor at 6.3%/year guarenteed for 7 years, nearly doubling her money by then. She couldn't be happier!

6.3% won't double in 7 years, it takes almost 10% for that. Ever heard of the "Rule of 72"? Divide 72 by the interest rate to find the approximate number of years until it doubles. Use whole numbers, so you would divide 72 by 6.3

Still, it beats losing 50% in ten months and having to play catch up.

TMCNo1
10-26-2008, 07:23 PM
6.3% won't double in 7 years, it takes almost 10% for that. Ever heard of the "Rule of 72"? Divide 72 by the interest rate to find the approximate number of years until it doubles. Use whole numbers, so you would divide 72 by 6.3

Still, it beats losing 50% in ten months and having to play catch up.

"nearly doubling her money by then" and your right, better than loosing a big old chunk in the market. The advisor showed us the chart on the computer by also offering her 5.8% for 5 years and the difference was worth the 2 additional years, which isn't a really long time. The main thing is she has access to it, that she didn't have thru the company if she needs it.

JimN
10-26-2008, 07:30 PM
Sounds like a bond, or bond fund, am I right? If you don't actually need the money, why not. Once it becomes needed, you can always convert to income-producing vehicles to supplement whatever income you have.

bbymgr
10-26-2008, 07:33 PM
Once upon a time, in a village, a man appeared and announced to the
villagers that he would buy monkeys for $10 each.

The villagers, seeing that there were many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them. The man bought thousands at $10 and, as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their effort.

He further announced that he would now buy at $20 for a monkey. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished even further and people started going back to their farms.

The offer increased to $25 each, and the supply of monkeys became so small that it was an effort to even find a monkey, let alone catch it!

The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at $50! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on behalf of him.

In the absence of the man, the assistant told the villagers. "Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that the man has collected. I will sell them to you at $35, and when the man returns from the city, you can sell them to him for $50 each."

The villagers rounded up all their savings and bought all the monkeys.

They never saw the man nor his assistant again, only monkeys everywhere!

Now you have a better understanding of how Wall Street works.

JimN
10-26-2008, 07:37 PM
"Now you have a better understanding of how Wall Street works."

Cynic!

bbymgr
10-26-2008, 07:40 PM
Cynic!


In today's times........you bet'cha.

TX.X-30 fan
10-26-2008, 08:10 PM
In today's times........you bet'cha.

We have been taken to the cleaners but wall street is not where it started, look no further than Washington.

bbymgr
10-26-2008, 11:50 PM
We have been taken to the cleaners but wall street is not where it started, look no further than Washington.


IMO Washington provided the loaded weapon, but Wall Street greed pulled the trigger.

TX.X-30 fan
10-27-2008, 10:08 AM
I think they are more to blame in this situation. If the guidelines for FNMA backed loans had not been so weakened only a very small sub-prime market would have existed as it had for years. There was always money lent to questionable borrowers just never on a scale like occurred from the late 90's until a few months ago. Its not hard to see where the blame lies, no one is willing to place the blame where it needs to be placed.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

coz
10-27-2008, 10:53 AM
I think they are more to blame in this situation. If the guidelines for FNMA backed loans had not been so weakened only a very small sub-prime market would have existed as it had for years. There was always money lent to questionable borrowers just never on a scale like occurred from the late 90's until a few months ago. Its not hard to see where the blame lies, no one is willing to place the blame where it needs to be placed.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/12/06/blame_toon_wideweb__470x422,0.jpg
He did it! No! he did it! :confused:

bbymgr
10-27-2008, 11:14 AM
I think they are more to blame in this situation. If the guidelines for FNMA backed loans had not been so weakened only a very small sub-prime market would have existed as it had for years. There was always money lent to questionable borrowers just never on a scale like occurred from the late 90's until a few months ago. Its not hard to see where the blame lies, no one is willing to place the blame where it needs to be placed.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

I'm not absolving Washington for their part in this. No matter if they knew this would happen or not, someone could have stepped in before now to stop this. As I have stated in an earlier thread, I just feel that the Mortgage Companies were so caught up in what they "could do", that they didn't bother to ask what they "should do". I know some people on here feel like the Mortgage Companies were pressured into the sub-prime loans. IMO they always had a choice. I personally utilize three different Banking Institutions that didn't jump into the sub-prime death trap, and as a result, they aren't being bailed out by the Government. They made the smart decision in the long run. I know hindsight is always 20/20, but come on. A 2 year old could have seen this coming. I guess that shows "Bill's" intellect level.

TX.X-30 fan
10-27-2008, 11:52 AM
I'm not absolving Washington for their part in this. No matter if they knew this would happen or not, someone could have stepped in before now to stop this. As I have stated in an earlier thread, I just feel that the Mortgage Companies were so caught up in what they "could do", that they didn't bother to ask what they "should do". I know some people on here feel like the Mortgage Companies were pressured into the sub-prime loans. IMO they always had a choice. I personally utilize three different Banking Institutions that didn't jump into the sub-prime death trap, and as a result, they aren't being bailed out by the Government. They made the smart decision in the long run. I know hindsight is always 20/20, but come on. A 2 year old could have seen this coming. I guess that shows "Bill's" intellect level.




Its true the did not have to make these loans, but if they wanted to be FNMA approved lender 40% of their portfolios had to contain minority loans. Very hard to do large volumes of loans without fannie and freddie backing. Look no further than countywide connections with Washington and the likes of Dodd. Yes the mtg. companies were greedy but with the approval of the govt. Without sub-prime none of this would be happening, and without fannie/freddie and congressional mandates none of the sub-prime would have been federally insured.

TMCNo1
10-28-2008, 07:13 PM
DJIA rose +889.35 points to 9065.12, lots of people buying bargins!

trickskier
10-28-2008, 07:56 PM
DJIA rose +889.35 points to 9065.12, lots of people buying bargins!

And the profit takers will be selling them tomorrow.........................:mad:

TX.X-30 fan
10-28-2008, 09:17 PM
And the profit takers will be selling them tomorrow.........................:mad:





Cynic!! :D:D

bbymgr
10-29-2008, 12:19 AM
Cynic!! :D:D



Do I need to start up the "Cynic's Anonymous" group???:D:D

trickskier
10-29-2008, 08:19 AM
And the profit takers will be selling them tomorrow.........................:mad:

Cynic!! :D:D

Watch and see today........................8p

TMCNo1
10-29-2008, 09:13 AM
Watch and see today........................8p


I love "Show and Tell" day!:rolleyes::D

3event
10-29-2008, 09:20 AM
Congress thinks it's time to make a grab for YOUR 401K. This is INSANE and should scare you - congress is working on legislation that would take your 401K money, force you to loan it to them providing 3% return on t-bills, and abolish the tax breaks you now get! Are you ready to donate tens or hundreds of thousands of retirement gains (which the Dow would return over long periods) to the Feds????? This is exactly what we will be facing if the Democrats run the show after the election. CALL YOUR LEGISLATORS:

=======
Chairman George Miller, D-California, and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington are the congressman exploring such a plan, concocted by an economics prof:

"Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation. "

The current system of providing tax breaks on 401(k) contributions and earnings would be eliminated.

source; http://www.workforce.com/section/00/article/25/83/58.php

Jesus_Freak
10-29-2008, 01:05 PM
Our national debt is an excellent example of what happens with loans to the government. Pure insanity, as you put it.

trickskier
10-29-2008, 06:15 PM
Looks who's running the government, Local, State, & Federal........................I rest my case!!! :mad:

Romanod
10-29-2008, 06:44 PM
If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago, you will have $49.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG one year ago, you will have $33.00 today. If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Lehman Brothers one year ago, you will have $0.00 today. But, if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the beer, then turned in the aluminum cans for recycling refund, you will have received $214.00. Based on the above, the best current investment plan is to drink heavily & recycle. It is called the 401-Keg. A recent study found that the average American walks about 900 miles a year. Another study found that Americans drink, on average, 22 gallons of alcohol a year. That means that, on average , Americans get about 41 miles to the gallon! Makes you proud to be an American!