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TexasMC230
09-18-2008, 06:10 PM
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement

One day, the owner threw them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. What happens to the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20,'declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, 'but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'

'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important.

They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D. Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

TexasMC230
09-18-2008, 06:12 PM
I got this off another forum, but thought it applied

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table at which he's fed.
Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes are the rule.

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.
Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.
Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries, tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways to tax his a..

Tax all he has to let him know,
That you won't be done till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers, tax him some more,
Tax him till he's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin, tax his grave,
Tax the sod in which he's laid.

Put these words upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me to my doom..."

When he's gone, do not relax,
It’s time to apply the inheritance tax.

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax,
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax ($1.62+ cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest expense
Inventory tax
IRS Interest and IRS Penalties (tax on tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Road usage taxes
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Service charge taxes
Social Security Tax
Sales Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

Note: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and mom stayed home to raise
the kids.

What the hell happened? Can you spell "politicians"?
And I still have to "press 1" for English.

BriEOD
09-18-2008, 06:33 PM
Good stuff!

Kgrove,

Right it should be in off topic; wrong we talk about all kinds of stuff on here.

ProTour X9
09-18-2008, 07:14 PM
Note: Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and mom stayed home to raise
the kids.

I have to agree with you for the most part, but we didn't have the Highway Transportation system we have now. We didn't have many radicals commiting crimes (Maybe we did, I wasn't around). Well I guess that's the extent of my feeble argument; I did like what someone posted on here saying that taxes were on of the major reasons we became a seperate country from jolly old England.

mccobmd
09-18-2008, 07:29 PM
That describes me perfectly, if the tax bracket goes to high I'll just take more time off and make less money. That will mean the only increased taxes they get from me will be on gas for more days at the lake.

TX.X-30 fan
09-18-2008, 08:45 PM
Joe Biden today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJkzRYffec


2.5 million in income, 3,000 in charity. Hey Joe you go first.

Ah bama, over 1 million invested in tax free muni's. Hey "I am the one you've been waitin for" you go first.

Jerseydave
09-18-2008, 09:38 PM
I like this one best............Mr. Obama should watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM3Ls8NNc5Q&feature=related

bbymgr
09-19-2008, 12:26 AM
I find it amusing that when most business owners talk about profit, they like to keep it in terms of %. For instance, the petroleum companies that say their profit % is right in line with other industries, but they are turning in record profit $. Then when they talk about taxes, they switch to $ because the numbers will defend their position of paying to much while the % most likely would not. Now I know this post will probably get alot of people all up in arms, and I will admit that I could be wrong and that I don't know everything there is to know about finances. There is know need to take my word for it . All you need to do is ask arguably the best financial mind in the US (Warren Buffett), who last October promised to donate $1,000,000 to charity if his fellow Fortune 400 members would admit that they pay less of percentage in taxes than their secretaries do. I think he knows something that the rest of them are trying to keep quite. What do you think?

Age Fighter
09-19-2008, 12:46 AM
Buffett is perhaps the best investor in world history, but that is altogether different from being an expert on tax policy or what would be best for the nation.

As an example, Dean Smith was one of the best bball coaches in history. Yet, he strongly favored the 17 foot 3 point shot as something needed to save the college game. I think everyone knows that would have been disasterous for the game...yet Dean continued to be a brilliant coach.

Being good at something is not the same as understanding what is good for the whole. And by the way, Buffet is free to pay a higher income tax if he wants to, as is Joe Biden. If I had to pay a higher tax, as a business owner filing as a Sub S, I would have to lay people off to pay the taxes.

bbymgr
09-19-2008, 01:39 AM
Buffett is perhaps the best investor in world history, but that is altogether different from being an expert on tax policy or what would be best for the nation.

As an example, Dean Smith was one of the best bball coaches in history. Yet, he strongly favored the 17 foot 3 point shot as something needed to save the college game. I think everyone knows that would have been disasterous for the game...yet Dean continued to be a brilliant coach.

Being good at something is not the same as understanding what is good for the whole. And by the way, Buffet is free to pay a higher income tax if he wants to, as is Joe Biden. If I had to pay a higher tax, as a business owner filing as a Sub S, I would have to lay people off to pay the taxes.

I think your comparison is a little off. He filed his first tax return at the age of thirteen. I would be willing to bet that he knows more about tax laws than you and I combined. And he wasn't endorsing paying more in taxes, he just wanted them to admit that their secretaries paid a larger percentage than they did.

TX.X-30 fan
09-19-2008, 09:01 AM
The secretary probably does so what?? The registration of 50 bucks for her car is giant to her versus 50 bucks to buffet. The taxes we pay are not just witholding. Fact is as 230 stated 60% pay and 40% do not as far as fed. taxes, is that equitable taxation.

bbymgr
09-19-2008, 09:38 AM
The secretary probably does so what?? The registration of 50 bucks for her car is giant to her versus 50 bucks to buffet. The taxes we pay are not just witholding. Fact is as 230 stated 60% pay and 40% do not as far as fed. taxes, is that equitable taxation.

I agree that is not equitable taxation. But I also feel the Secretary paying a larger % is not equitable as either.

TMCNo1
09-19-2008, 09:45 AM
I'll just have to accept taxes as we know it, till they start taxing sex!:rolleyes::D

Age Fighter
09-19-2008, 11:38 AM
I agree that is not equitable taxation. But I also feel the Secretary paying a larger % is not equitable as either.

It's not really a question of equitable, though I understand the sentiment. The secretary makes a salary and gets taxed on that at the marginal rate.

I assure you Buffett's salary has a HIGHER marginal rate than she does, but Buffet, like all folks with ownership and stock interests, also have a very complicated income picture related to capital gains, tax free bonds, etc. It is only when that is counted does he pay an effective rate lower than his secretary.

But taxing all of that punitively would ruin the economy and hurt folks like his secretary who can also invest (albeit at a much smaller level) in stocks, bonds, muni's, etc.

(and you still miss my point on the micro vs the macro....)

Skipper
09-19-2008, 01:01 PM
I'll just have to accept taxes as we know it, till they start taxing sex!:rolleyes::D

I had to pay taxes for that in Reno? Hey, you think I got jipped?

ProTour X9
09-19-2008, 09:24 PM
Reminds me of a saying about death and taxes.........

TMCNo1
09-19-2008, 09:46 PM
Reminds me of a saying about death and taxes.........

and............................................... .......?

TMCNo1
09-19-2008, 09:47 PM
I had to pay taxes for that in Reno? Hey, you think I got jipped?


Yep, you got ripped off! Gettin' taxed for something that didn't happen, right, just ask Bill Clinton!:rolleyes::D

ProTour X9
09-19-2008, 09:47 PM
and............................................... .......?

I can't remember, I'm getting too old.:D:rolleyes:

TMCNo1
09-19-2008, 09:48 PM
I can't remember, I'm getting too old.:D:rolleyes:

:uglyhammeYea, right!

stuartmcnair
09-19-2008, 11:17 PM
It amazes me how Warren Buffet is put up on a pedestal. He is an absolute piece of S@($! Just ask the people of Coca-Cola. He strong armed the board into replacing Doug Ivester because Ivester would not lay off people to make the bottom line look better so his stock would go up. He wanted IT outsourced so it would go on a different part of the balance sheet. When Ivester refused he went and found Doug Daft who said he would lay off whoever if he could be the Chairman. Coke had never laid anyone off until he got involved. So a position at Coke that was salaried at say, $75,000 was turned over to an incompetent outsource firm that then cost the company $150,000 a year to staff.

It cost the company more money but it looked better on the balance sheet. With the little side note of upending about five hundred people who had never done anything to deserve it.

But hey, the stock did respond. It dropped about 10 percent because investors felt that something had to be wrong if Coke was doing layoffs. That was eight years ago and the stock has still not recovered.

Oh, and since then Coke has had to rehire all those people that were laid off after the costs to outsource went through the roof and IT problems were rampant due to the idiots they brought in. They rehired them at a job grade plus premium so it costs the company even more.

Yeah, what a genius. Buffet made a lot of money but he now relies on that position to bully companies into doing his will now matter who it hurts.

Asshat.

mdskier
09-20-2008, 12:23 AM
No income tax can be equitable. In fact, no income tax makes sense.

A consumption tax makes more sense - a tax on what you spend not what you earn.

Get behind the fair tax and eliminate all income and payroll taxes as well as corporate and capital gains taxes to name a few - www.fairtax.org

Other than the obvious of taking away the politicians ability to increase taxes, I cannot figure out why more in washington are not behind the fair tax.

6ballsisall
09-20-2008, 12:56 AM
It amazes me how Warren Buffet is put up on a pedestal. He is an absolute piece of S@($! Just ask the people of Coca-Cola. He strong armed the board into replacing Doug Ivester because Ivester would not lay off people to make the bottom line look better so his stock would go up. He wanted IT outsourced so it would go on a different part of the balance sheet. When Ivester refused he went and found Doug Daft who said he would lay off whoever if he could be the Chairman. Coke had never laid anyone off until he got involved. So a position at Coke that was salaried at say, $75,000 was turned over to an incompetent outsource firm that then cost the company $150,000 a year to staff.

It cost the company more money but it looked better on the balance sheet. With the little side note of upending about five hundred people who had never done anything to deserve it.

But hey, the stock did respond. It dropped about 10 percent because investors felt that something had to be wrong if Coke was doing layoffs. That was eight years ago and the stock has still not recovered.

Oh, and since then Coke has had to rehire all those people that were laid off after the costs to outsource went through the roof and IT problems were rampant due to the idiots they brought in. They rehired them at a job grade plus premium so it costs the company even more.

Yeah, what a genius. Buffet made a lot of money but he now relies on that position to bully companies into doing his will now matter who it hurts.

Asshat.

He is a capitalist, what do you expect? As far as capitalists go, he is one of the more moral minded of the group. Ever heard of a company called Berkshire Hathaway? The dude is an unbelievable business minded individual that virtually every investor looks up to. You got to respect a guy who has built himself up from nothing to what he has amassed today (and to give it all away again) Again, he is a capitalist. Agree with him or not, thats what he is and he has the right to be that, he's darn well earned it. Does he do some things that you or even I don't agree with, absolutely! But we don't own a huge hunk of Coke stock, and we don't have the financial acumen he does, so it doesn't matter!

As for the comments about Buffet using his financial position to get things done, yes, those with money can do that and do that. It happens everyday even in the most micro of situations. Again, refer back to Capitalist comments.

* I respect your opinion, but disagree about the facts and long run view of Buffet.

bbymgr
09-20-2008, 02:08 AM
It amazes me how Warren Buffet is put up on a pedestal. He is an absolute piece of S@($! Just ask the people of Coca-Cola. He strong armed the board into replacing Doug Ivester because Ivester would not lay off people to make the bottom line look better so his stock would go up. He wanted IT outsourced so it would go on a different part of the balance sheet. When Ivester refused he went and found Doug Daft who said he would lay off whoever if he could be the Chairman. Coke had never laid anyone off until he got involved. So a position at Coke that was salaried at say, $75,000 was turned over to an incompetent outsource firm that then cost the company $150,000 a year to staff.

It cost the company more money but it looked better on the balance sheet. With the little side note of upending about five hundred people who had never done anything to deserve it.

But hey, the stock did respond. It dropped about 10 percent because investors felt that something had to be wrong if Coke was doing layoffs. That was eight years ago and the stock has still not recovered.

Oh, and since then Coke has had to rehire all those people that were laid off after the costs to outsource went through the roof and IT problems were rampant due to the idiots they brought in. They rehired them at a job grade plus premium so it costs the company even more.

Yeah, what a genius. Buffet made a lot of money but he now relies on that position to bully companies into doing his will now matter who it hurts.

Asshat.

I find it hard to believe that Warren Buffet could accomplish all that with only 7% of the Company Stock. I would be willing to bet that there are at least 6 other people with more stock in the company than him.

stuartmcnair
09-22-2008, 11:04 AM
I find it hard to believe that Warren Buffet could accomplish all that with only 7% of the Company Stock. I would be willing to bet that there are at least 6 other people with more stock in the company than him.

Believe it. It was an INCREDIBLY stupid business decision. Worked out fine for me though. I was able to move back to where I grew up, buy a little farm and build a nice house. It now takes me eight minutes to get to work as opposed to 45. Did not work out as well for a lot of my friends though.