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pram
09-18-2008, 12:04 PM
The way it should be!
This was written in 1993 by Lewis Napper.
Do you think we would be better off if the Federal Government adopted this thinking?


'We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our great-great-great grand-children, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, and delusional. We hold these truths to be self evident: that a whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim they require a Bill of NON-Rights.'

ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.

ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc.; but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.

ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.

ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes. This one is my pet peeve...get an education and go to work..don't expect everyone else to take care of you!

ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but if it would turn out the same way as current public housing, we're not interested in public health care.

ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people..If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you put away for the rest of your sorry life.

ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV or a life of leisure.

ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want you to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard times,but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful. (AMEN!)

ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an America means that you have the right to PURSUE happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights.

ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from!

ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one God. You are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all, with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!

JimN
09-18-2008, 12:08 PM
What about the two comments at the bottom of the other post, where you found this?

Didn't want to include those, eh?

What's the matter, Beave, chicken?

pram
09-18-2008, 12:09 PM
one moment please while I investigate your comment

pram
09-18-2008, 12:12 PM
hmmmm that is a good question whether or not to include those comments. Although I can see how the poster has justification for saying what they did, I also don't know if it would have a beneficial impact on the article.

trickskier
09-18-2008, 12:12 PM
Good reading!!! :D

Monte
09-18-2008, 12:16 PM
Darn good reading....

6ballsisall
09-18-2008, 12:33 PM
Amen!!! :guitar::guitar:

TX.X-30 fan
09-18-2008, 12:33 PM
Sign me up, Today I thank all of Canada for their native son Pram. :D:D

flipper
09-18-2008, 01:00 PM
How would Pram know if it was good reading or not? There aren't any pics!

6ballsisall
09-18-2008, 01:13 PM
How would Pram know if it was good reading or not? There aren't any pics!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pram
09-18-2008, 01:53 PM
How would Pram know if it was good reading or not? There aren't any pics!

hey flippy, hows the sammich making business going?

pram
09-18-2008, 01:57 PM
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know what your laughing about there Jiffy, you ain't been able to read since you lost 1/2 your IQ from the move

6ballsisall
09-18-2008, 02:48 PM
I don't know what your laughing about there Jiffy, you ain't been able to read since you lost 1/2 your IQ from the move

yes, I'm a casualty of war. IQ does indeed drop when you live in the south! 8p8p8p


I kid, I kid! No one get offended now :rolleyes:

pram
09-18-2008, 02:54 PM
yes, I'm a casualty of war. IQ does indeed drop when you live in the south! 8p8p8p


I ain't kiddin either! No one get offended now

:noface:

no couth

6ballsisall
09-18-2008, 03:00 PM
:noface:

no couth

Pram, I'm hungry, wheres my Sammich?

flipper
09-18-2008, 03:12 PM
hey flippy, hows the sammich making business going?

Bidniz is goin' good....just got an order of 1,000 small samich warmers going way north somewhere.:D

Jorski
09-18-2008, 03:14 PM
ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from!

ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country's history or heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one God. You are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all, with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!


Two other principles that your country was founded upon:

1) freedom of expression

and

2) seperation of church and state

RexDog1
09-18-2008, 03:23 PM
1993 We have come a long way????? NOT:mad:

Jesus_Freak
09-18-2008, 03:54 PM
... 2) seperation of church and state....

Yes, sort of, but with the original intent being protection of the church from the state, not vice versa.

LakePirate
09-18-2008, 04:01 PM
6balls - you know that us folks down here in the south, well, we know some things about things, and we put our minds to use to accomplish the work, it is just difficult to explain what it is we are working on. Hence we appear to not be as brash with our smarts.

6ballsisall
09-18-2008, 04:08 PM
6balls - you know that us folks down here in the south, well, we know some things about things, and we put our minds to use to accomplish the work, it is just difficult to explain what it is we are working on. Hence we appear to not be as brash with our smarts.

You know I am kidding Lakey. I like living in the south as well as the people. ;)

But I will say this, I cannot, and will not drink that Sweet Tea Sam I am.

LakePirate
09-18-2008, 04:09 PM
You know I am kidding Lakey. I like living in the south as well as the people. ;)

But I will say this, I cannot, and will not drink that Sweet Tea Sam I am.


It was my attempt at trying to type "SpOrtY"

6ballsisall
09-18-2008, 04:12 PM
It was my attempt at trying to type "SpOrtY"

I get it. 8p

Let me try: Down here in the south we do some things, and talk to these people over here every once in a while. Sometimes we have meetings over at this place and talk about certain subjects and then have conference calls about these sorts of things. Occasionally we travel to these other areas and do the same types of things.

LakePirate
09-18-2008, 04:15 PM
I get it. 8p

Let me try: Down here in the south we do some things, and talk to these people over here every once in a while. Sometimes we have meetings over at this place and talk about certain subjects and then have conference calls about these sorts of things. Occasionally we travel to these other areas and do the same types of things.

x-10
y-14
r-37

Hut - Hut

JimN
09-18-2008, 04:35 PM
Re: Freedom of speech:

People are free to speak whatever language they want and are familiar with. However, they shouldn't expect the rest of the country to learn their languages, post signs in all of the extra languages, print redundant literature, maps, government documents, school books, money or any other official printed material. If the government chooses to print this material in a different language, it's a bonus for the people whose language was accommodated but unless I'm mistaken, the majority should have some say as to who's paying for it. I know I was never asked if I'd be willing to pay for it and I at least made the effort of taking two years of Spanish, in high school. The least the immigerants could do is not make the majority pay for their unwillingness to learn the predoninamt language of their new country. OTOH, it's hard to call it "Their new country" when they continue to raise the flag of the country they came from over the US flag.

Immigrants really should learn "the house rules" when they move in. If I moved to Canada or any other country/territory, I would expect no freedom as far as observing their laws. If I break any of them, ignorance should never be allowed to be a valid defense. It would be my responsibility to learn them although the government would probably make it available to me. I can't just "move in" to another country without following proper procedure unless I do it undetected. I couldn't move to Mexico and their policies are more strict that ours.

Ironic, ain't it?

Re: Freedom of religion:

Separation of Church and State was meant to ensure that there would be no official religion. People were free to observe whatever religion they preferred, or not to at all. Some people apparently have forgotten this over the years and even in the Senate (possibly the House, too), they start the day with a prayer. I don't know if it's non-denominational or not, but I would kind of assume it is, even though they change the official chaplain from time to time.

Maristar210
09-18-2008, 04:43 PM
Two other principles that your country was founded upon:

1) freedom of expression

and

2) seperation of church and state

You spend a lot of time talking about our country, most times in a deragatory tone. I don't appreciate it at all. Frankly I'm offended you think you can ridicule our nation any time you wish. You may refer to free speech but ****, I just don't speak french.

Do you hear any of us bashing your history, leaders and financial condition? I don't think so...

Sometimes you need to learn when to know when you are crossing the line with your fellow TT'ers.

You don't live here. You don't pay taxes here and thus, as far as I am concerned you have no reason to complain about us. I suggest you consider moving to France, they have lots of white flags over there, you'd fit in great.

LakePirate
09-18-2008, 04:46 PM
Well said Staristar

Hey Jorski - who did you vote for in the last election?


Exactly.

Personally I voted for The King Richard Petty.

ProTour X9
09-18-2008, 05:07 PM
How bout da Canadians dumpin der trash in our Great Lakes eh??

bcampbe7
09-18-2008, 05:10 PM
Two great posts. Well said, gents!


Re: Freedom of speech:

People are free to speak whatever language they want and are familiar with. However, they shouldn't expect the rest of the country to learn their languages, post signs in all of the extra languages, print redundant literature, maps, government documents, school books, money or any other official printed material. If the government chooses to print this material in a different language, it's a bonus for the people whose language was accommodated but unless I'm mistaken, the majority should have some say as to who's paying for it. I know I was never asked if I'd be willing to pay for it and I at least made the effort of taking two years of Spanish, in high school. The least the immigerants could do is not make the majority pay for their unwillingness to learn the predoninamt language of their new country. OTOH, it's hard to call it "Their new country" when they continue to raise the flag of the country they came from over the US flag.

Immigrants really should learn "the house rules" when they move in. If I moved to Canada or any other country/territory, I would expect no freedom as far as observing their laws. If I break any of them, ignorance should never be allowed to be a valid defense. It would be my responsibility to learn them although the government would probably make it available to me. I can't just "move in" to another country without following proper procedure unless I do it undetected. I couldn't move to Mexico and their policies are more strict that ours.

Ironic, ain't it?

Re: Freedom of religion:

Separation of Church and State was meant to ensure that there would be no official religion. People were free to observe whatever religion they preferred, or not to at all. Some people apparently have forgotten this over the years and even in the Senate (possibly the House, too), they start the day with a prayer. I don't know if it's non-denominational or not, but I would kind of assume it is, even though they change the official chaplain from time to time.



You spend a lot of time talking about our country, most times in a deragatory tone. I don't appreciate it at all. Frankly I'm offended you think you can ridicule our nation any time you wish. You may refer to free speech but ****, I just don't speak french.

Do you hear any of us bashing your history, leaders and financial condition? I don't think so...

Sometimes you need to learn when to know when you are crossing the line with your fellow TT'ers.

You don't live here. You don't pay taxes here and thus, as far as I am concerned you have no reason to complain about us. I suggest you consider moving to France, they have lots of white flags over there, you'd fit in great.

flipper
09-18-2008, 05:11 PM
I voted for UMP and Hoosier

Upper Michigan Prostar190
09-18-2008, 05:14 PM
Canada????

LakePirate
09-18-2008, 05:16 PM
What about me and UMP?

We had some quality in there.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
09-18-2008, 05:24 PM
We did ??

flipper
09-18-2008, 05:25 PM
I think Ump was going to appoint you head of foreign relations.



pst....ya might want to start with canada.

Monte
09-18-2008, 05:26 PM
I voted for UMP and Hoosier

UMP said he wouldn't run:(

TMCNo1
09-18-2008, 05:27 PM
My kind of lady!!






Awesome Senior Moment



There were protesters on the train platform handing out pamphlets on the evils of America. I politely declined to take one.

An elderly woman was behind me getting off the escalator and a young (20-ish) female protester offered her a pamphlet, which she politely declined.

The young protester put her hand on the old woman's shoulder as a gesture of friendship and in a very soft voice said, 'Lady, don't you care about the children of Iraq ?'

The old woman looked up at her and said, 'Honey, my father died in France during World War II, I lost my husband in Korea , and a son in Vietnam . All three died so you could have the right to stand here and bad mouth our country. If you touch me again, I'll stick this umbrella up your *** and open it!'

LakePirate
09-18-2008, 05:27 PM
We did ??


We are here aren't we.

flipper
09-18-2008, 05:29 PM
UMP said he wouldn't run:(

Now what are we going to do....why won't ump run? He has the presidential limo known as the blues mobile.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
09-18-2008, 05:29 PM
We are here aren't we.

Im so stoned I have no idea Lake.

thats why I pay you the big bucks.

You just point to where I sign.


Work work work work

Upper Michigan Prostar190
09-18-2008, 05:30 PM
Now what are we going to do....why won't ump run? He has the presidential limo known as the blues mobile.

its Illinois Nazi proof.

Jorski
09-19-2008, 11:46 AM
You spend a lot of time talking about our country, most times in a deragatory tone. I don't appreciate it at all. Frankly I'm offended you think you can ridicule our nation any time you wish. You may refer to free speech but ****, I just don't speak french.

Do you hear any of us bashing your history, leaders and financial condition? I don't think so...

Sometimes you need to learn when to know when you are crossing the line with your fellow TT'ers.

You don't live here. You don't pay taxes here and thus, as far as I am concerned you have no reason to complain about us. I suggest you consider moving to France, they have lots of white flags over there, you'd fit in great


Boy have you misunderstood me, and the positions that I take. First of all, if I believe in global warming and debate with you about that - it in no way is "ridiculing your nation". If I think Sarah Palin is under-qualified to be President, of, well anything, that's just an opinion and is in no way ridiculing your nation. If I think that your economy is in the tank, or that we (the planet) are running out of oil, same thing.

On this site, it seems that having an opinion that doesn't come straight from the latest Republican "talking point" handbook is construed as either socialist, or in the least "crossing the line". If you notice, the areas where there has been the most animosity expressed concerning my opinions, have been to do with Global Warming and global oil supply. Neither of these issues have anything to do one country or another.

Having an opinion is not illegal in either country, and being attacked for having one, seems sort of un-American. In fact you suggest that if I "don't live there and don't pay taxes there" I shouldn't have the right to express any opinion at all - well, that is unless I happen to support the prevalent position on this very board.

So that you know, I have lived in the U.S., have owned property there, even paid taxes there; so I have an appreciation for your country, believe me.

Frankly Maristar, you feel free to ridicule me, most of your argument is simply based upon not agreeing with me, and then quickly following with an ad hominem attack. Take note, if you have an opinion about Canadian politicians, please feel free to post anything that you like, but the "France" shots just makes you sound a little too angry, and it diffuses the effectiveness of your arguments.

Maristar210
09-19-2008, 12:22 PM
General RANT/////

What I don't do and have never done is disrespect the office of the President of the United States by badmouthing the administration. I did not do it when any president was in office. People are quick to to lambaste Bush. I don't like it. I don't have to like it. I said nothing when Clinton was spewing goo on Monica. Why? because he was the president, that's why.

Too many would rather sit back and complain than offer a solution. Protest against the war? for what? Do something purposeful, I say. Do something besides ***** and complain about what you don't have. Make your own way. Prepare your own self and be proud of what you are. Don't expect anyone else to provide for you. Provide for yourself so that those lives you touch are better after you have touched them. Don't be drain on society, be someone who enrichens the community in which you live. Instead of holding your hand out, get them dirty and sleep well knowing you did your part.

I just get tired of people badmouthing the country I love. It sickens me really.


Rant over.

TMCNo1
09-19-2008, 01:01 PM
General RANT/////

What I don't do and have never done is disrespect the office of the President of the United States by badmouthing the administration. I did not do it when any president was in office. People are quick to to lambaste Bush. I don't like it. I don't have to like it. I said nothing when Clinton was spewing goo on Monica. Why? because he was the president, that's why.

Too many would rather sit back and complain than offer a solution. Protest against the war? for what? Do something purposeful, I say. Do something besides ***** and complain about what you don't have. Make your own way. Prepare your own self and be proud of what you are. Don't expect anyone else to provide for you. Provide for yourself so that those lives you touch are better after you have touched them. Don't be drain on society, be someone who enrichens the community in which you live. Instead of holding your hand out, get them dirty and sleep well knowing you did your part.

I just get tired of people badmouthing the country I love. It sickens me really.


Rant over.

Well said!

Skipper
09-19-2008, 01:05 PM
General RANT/////

What I don't do and have never done is disrespect the office of the President of the United States by badmouthing the administration. I did not do it when any president was in office. People are quick to to lambaste Bush. I don't like it. I don't have to like it. I said nothing when Clinton was spewing goo on Monica. Why? because he was the president, that's why.

Too many would rather sit back and complain than offer a solution. Protest against the war? for what? Do something purposeful, I say. Do something besides ***** and complain about what you don't have. Make your own way. Prepare your own self and be proud of what you are. Don't expect anyone else to provide for you. Provide for yourself so that those lives you touch are better after you have touched them. Don't be drain on society, be someone who enrichens the community in which you live. Instead of holding your hand out, get them dirty and sleep well knowing you did your part.

I just get tired of people badmouthing the country I love. It sickens me really.


Rant over.

I agree, except with even stronger language.

3event
09-19-2008, 01:28 PM
If it is necessary for us to hear relentless voting recommendations from citizens of many other countries, I suppose then, the free opinions are worth what we paid for them. We have to remember that outside the USA, the news that is available does NOT offer an even, unbiased view. I've watched those reports, and spent plenty of time talking US politics with international biz partners.

No other country has their financial and political system dissected for critical scrutiny by so many as the USA. And in most cases when it's done, it's often done with an air of scorn, arrogance, and disrespect - as if we in the USA should know better than doing what we are doing. I've traveled to more than 35 countries and after every single visit, I return thankful to be a citizen of this great country.

One of the best reasons (IMHO) for pride in our country is the what's revealed when we look at the generosity of the USA. What do we do for our own fellow citizens and for the citizens of the world? Food for thought:

> During the Asian Tsunami relief effort, Americans gave $2B in private contributions, the US government provided $900M in aid.
> In 2006 - Total philanthropy for all causes included private donations of $34.8B plus US gov't aid of $23.5B (funded by private taxpayers ultimately).
> Of the 2006 figure, $8.8B was given by private religious organizations that is $1.5 billion more than the total giving from all private sources in 30 of the world's major industrialized democratic countries combined.
> Americans give three and one-half times more per capita than the French, seven times more than the Germans and 14 times more than the Italians
> Consolidating all assistance funds from 2006, the total is $129.8 billion. Second place is held by United Kingdom at $20.7 billion. (this is the total of government aid, philanthropy, and remittances -- funds sent directly by private individuals to other private parties in developing countries, often family members)

That data speaks to our foundational values. Foreign citizens may not like our leaders and policies based on their sources of news. Many times we are also frustrated. No system is perfect. For all those outside the USA that are maddeningly frustrated by our politics and culture, there is one concrete option: immigrate legally, pay taxes, and vote!

God bless America !

Sources:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,233219,00.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/purcell/s_482341.html (based on a John Stossel report from newsmag 20/20)
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/americas_generosity_is_unmatch.html

Upper Michigan Prostar190
09-19-2008, 02:03 PM
I'd like to buy ten thousand marbles please.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
09-19-2008, 02:06 PM
I heard Steve was dressin' up as a Democrat for Halloween.

6ballsisall
09-19-2008, 02:10 PM
I'd like to buy ten thousand marbles please.

You are stoned again aren't you

Jesus_Freak
09-19-2008, 02:19 PM
...

Re: Freedom of religion:

Separation of Church and State was meant to ensure that there would be no official religion. People were free to observe whatever religion they preferred, or not to at all. Some people apparently have forgotten this over the years and even in the Senate (possibly the House, too), they start the day with a prayer. I don't know if it's non-denominational or not, but I would kind of assume it is, even though they change the official chaplain from time to time.

When we left England, we worshipped the same Creator as they did, but with some differing opinions on the methods/control of worship, not the focus of the worship. When we later framed our founding documents and legislature, we had this Creator in mind. That was most certainly the context. Therefore, it was more about freedom from the state's control by a particular denomination, not "protection" from a generally Christ-centered government.

Should everyone agree that an exclusively Christ-centered government is what we should have? Of course not.

Should everyone appreciate it if we do have one? Most certainly, considering the context of our framing.

Should I appreciate it if we do not? Yes, still. I love my country.

Monte
09-19-2008, 02:22 PM
I heard Steve was dressin' up as a Democrat for Halloween.

What does that outfit look like?:rolleyes:

flipper
09-19-2008, 02:24 PM
What does that outfit look like?:rolleyes:

Lots of rainbow coloring:D

Monte
09-19-2008, 02:25 PM
Lots of rainbow coloring:D

A donkey of different colors? interesting:rolleyes:

flipper
09-19-2008, 02:26 PM
you have to see it to believe it

LakePirate
09-19-2008, 02:45 PM
Sidebar - Look at where the contributions of the public came from. Most of them came from some of the poorest areas of the country. Everyday folks helping everyday folks.

I have 2 bags of marbles - one bag has 37 marbles the other bag has 3 more marbles. How many marbles does UMP have?

Monte
09-19-2008, 02:47 PM
How many marbles does UMP have?

He wants to buy a s-load from what I hear anyway

'02xrider
09-19-2008, 07:31 PM
On this site, it seems that having an opinion that doesn't come straight from the latest Republican "talking point" handbook is construed as either socialist, or in the least "crossing the line".


Yep. It's a good thing some are willing to express a different point of view, otherwise it would be pretty boring here. Same ol' same ol'.

Roonie's
09-19-2008, 08:48 PM
Yep. It's a good thing some are willing to express a different point of view, otherwise it would be pretty boring here. Same ol' same ol'.

X2...... which just so happens to be the boat I own.

JimN
09-19-2008, 09:11 PM
When we left England, we worshipped the same Creator as they did, but with some differing opinions on the methods/control of worship, not the focus of the worship. When we later framed our founding documents and legislature, we had this Creator in mind. That was most certainly the context. Therefore, it was more about freedom from the state's control by a particular denomination, not "protection" from a generally Christ-centered government.

Should everyone agree that an exclusively Christ-centered government is what we should have? Of course not.

Should everyone appreciate it if we do have one? Most certainly, considering the context of our framing.

Should I appreciate it if we do not? Yes, still. I love my country.

When who left England- the first settlers? They came here long before the Revolution and there were several faiths included. The Puritans were only one group but there were Jews, atheists,Protestants, Quakers, Anglican, Catholic and I would assume others. This being the case, not all worshipped the same God, although they apparently got along well enough.

"The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Personally, I think they had great insight to what the future held.

TMCNo1
09-19-2008, 10:34 PM
Sidebar - Look at where the contributions of the public came from. Most of them came from some of the poorest areas of the country. Everyday folks helping everyday folks.

I have 2 bags of marbles - one bag has 37 marbles the other bag has 3 more marbles. How many marbles does UMP have?


I learned 3 years ago, he was missing some marbles!:rolleyes::D

Jorski
09-20-2008, 02:30 PM
If it is necessary for us to hear relentless voting recommendations from citizens of many other countries, I suppose then, the free opinions are worth what we paid for them. We have to remember that outside the USA, the news that is available does NOT offer an even, unbiased view. I've watched those reports, and spent plenty of time talking US politics with international biz partners.


Don't know if you were referring to me; however, I have never, ever, made a reccomendation as to how you should vote. It has been assumed many times here that a cristicism of a position by one politician is somehow a defacto endorsement of another, and that is a poor assumption.

As for your opinion about media outside of the USA, it is about as good/bad, biased/unbiased as media inside the USA.

Jesus_Freak
09-21-2008, 08:32 AM
When who left England- the first settlers? They came here long before the Revolution and there were several faiths included. The Puritans were only one group but there were Jews, atheists,Protestants, Quakers, Anglican, Catholic and I would assume others. This being the case, not all worshipped the same God, although they apparently got along well enough....

Mayflower Compact (1620) "...Having undertaken, for the Glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith, and honor of our king and country, a voyage to plant the first colony..."

I cannot speak about every settler here, but it is crystal clear what this group was thinking. ;)

coz
09-21-2008, 08:50 AM
ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc.; but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be

Appropriate for this message board

TMCNo1
09-21-2008, 09:48 AM
SCHOOL -- 1957 vs. 2008

Scenario:
Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1957
- Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2008 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario :
Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.
1957
- Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2008 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.


Scenario:
Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.
1957
- Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2008 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.


Scenario:
Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad g ives him a whipping with his belt.
1957 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2008 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.


Scenario :
Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1957 - Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2008 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario:
Pedro fails high school English.
1957 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2008 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario:
Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1957 - Ants die.
2008- BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario:
Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1957 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2008 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

coz
09-21-2008, 10:34 AM
Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.
1957
-Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.


I remember our principal had one of these hanging on his wall and those little holes made your a$$ look like it had white poka dots when he was done :cry:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31JWnHxwMwL._SL500_AA278_.jpg

JimN
09-21-2008, 10:39 AM
When we left England, we worshipped the same Creator as they did, but with some differing opinions on the methods/control of worship, not the focus of the worship. When we later framed our founding documents and legislature, we had this Creator in mind. That was most certainly the context. Therefore, it was more about freedom from the state's control by a particular denomination, not "protection" from a generally Christ-centered government.

I read this and was thinking of a broader time line, not just the Mayflower.