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View Full Version : Went to the Local dealer's openhouse today. :(


Storm861triple
05-01-2005, 06:00 PM
Pretty disappointing.
1. Not a single direct drive boat in the place. There were a couple USED direct drives out in the lot of various brands, but nothing on the showroom floor. Lame. It bums me out that the market has shifted this dramatically.

2. Idiotic sales people. I knew 10 times more about teh specs and models than any retard I spoke to in there. And that's not even getting technical! I'm just talking models, hulls, features, etc. Then throw in "used car salesman" type lines they use, such as (this was really used, BTW), "You two looks so great in that boat, you ought to be taking it home tonight!". Der. Please spare me the polyester talk.

3. Ugly boats. They're all hidious. That "pickle fork" bow is an atrocity. No taste what so ever involved in the design of those models (almost the entire line now!)

4. Fat boats. They're all too fat and heavy now days, but the cream of the crop is the fat pigglet, 6200 lb, X-80. We're talking 6200 lbs folks! Two engines -utterly unnecessary! $125,000 +!! This thing is nothing but a waste of natural resources. The materials to construct it, the fuel it SUCKS down, the vehicle required to pull it, the trees needed to build a sufficient shelter for it(35' deep min.), etc, etc. Yes, I know there are bigger boats, but none in that price range are that useless! (focused?) Even any in that SIZE range area way more versitile and useful. The thing just reeks of wretched excess, and conspicuous consumption. I think the thing is just aweful and so far from MC's roots, it...it...it's just....I'm at a loss for words!
Singing...->"Which one of these (boats) is not like the others".... The X-80!

On the plus side, it was good to see that MC had "fixed" some of the issues i've had a beef with on the older boats, such as replacing RAND gun glass w/hand laid stuff, SS through bolted hardware, and so on. It's just too bad almost the entire lineup is so fat and fugly. My opinion of course.

-Tom

Todd Brosius
05-01-2005, 06:07 PM
Welcome to the world of the wakeboarders. That seems to be the trend. Personally - slalom, trick, foot, with a little dab of wakeboard when it gets to rought to ski. So I'm with you lets see some tournament slalom boats, unfortunately that's not the demand. My opinion of course.

André
05-01-2005, 06:16 PM
One thing i beleive is that those big bad wakeboarding boats price tags make the traditionnals skiboats price tags go up much more then it should!
Really not much justify the increase in a Prostar price for the last 10 years.

BriEOD
05-01-2005, 06:19 PM
$125K holy smokes!! :eek:

erkoehler
05-01-2005, 06:31 PM
Rode in the X-9 today, and it was pretty nice! The footers and boarders seemed to have fun behind it!

Thanks to Chicago Mastercraft for coming out!!!!

Storm861triple
05-01-2005, 07:28 PM
One thing i beleive is that those big bad wakeboarding boats price tags make the traditionnals skiboats price tags go up much more then it should!
Really not much justify the increase in a Prostar price for the last 10 years.


I completely agree. That was one of the bullet points I forgot! The PRICE of these boats. The PS 190 is the cheapest MC made now, and it's still a cool $45K! In 10 years they HAVE improved some aspects, as I mentioned above, but I'm not sure if the improvements are in line w/the price at this point. I've said it before and I'll say it now, for $45k+ AT LEAST give us a PSS seal and a properly aligned drivetrain, PLEASE! Oh well.

rodltg2
05-01-2005, 07:54 PM
i really dont see why there is a market for the x80. if you want that big a boat with a bathroom , there are plenty of other manufactures that already make them. does anybody on here own one? why did you buy instead of a regal or cobalt?

milkmania
05-01-2005, 08:02 PM
why did you buy instead of a regal or cobalt?

cuz, it'd take a rocket scientist to get this thing started!!!:eek:

Cobalt 343
http://www.cobaltboats.com/model_line/343/slides/34302.jpg

Ric
05-01-2005, 08:48 PM
Pretty disappointing.
1. Not a single direct drive boat in the place. There were a couple USED direct drives out in the lot of various brands, but nothing on the showroom floor. Lame. It bums me out that the market has shifted this dramatically.

2. Idiotic sales people. I knew 10 times more about teh specs and models than any retard I spoke to in there. And that's not even getting technical! I'm just talking models, hulls, features, etc. Then throw in "used car salesman" type lines they use, such as (this was really used, BTW), "You two looks so great in that boat, you ought to be taking it home tonight!". Der. Please spare me the polyester talk.

3. Ugly boats. They're all hidious. That "pickle fork" bow is an atrocity. No taste what so ever involved in the design of those models (almost the entire line now!)

4. Fat boats. They're all too fat and heavy now days, but the cream of the crop is the fat pigglet, 6200 lb, X-80. We're talking 6200 lbs folks! Two engines -utterly unnecessary! $125,000 +!! This thing is nothing but a waste of natural resources. The materials to construct it, the fuel it SUCKS down, the vehicle required to pull it, the trees needed to build a sufficient shelter for it(35' deep min.), etc, etc. Yes, I know there are bigger boats, but none in that price range are that useless! (focused?) Even any in that SIZE range area way more versitile and useful. The thing just reeks of wretched excess, and conspicuous consumption. I think the thing is just aweful and so far from MC's roots, it...it...it's just....I'm at a loss for words!
Singing...->"Which one of these (boats) is not like the others".... The X-80!

On the plus side, it was good to see that MC had "fixed" some of the issues i've had a beef with on the older boats, such as replacing RAND gun glass w/hand laid stuff, SS through bolted hardware, and so on. It's just too bad almost the entire lineup is so fat and fugly. My opinion of course.

-Tom
Tell us how you really feel

WakePowell
05-01-2005, 08:56 PM
It is too bad you have to bash your dealer on this forum just because you do not like any other boat than a direct drive ProStar ski boat. I visited Utah Water Sports and nearly bought my boat from them. They by far have the nicest, cleanest showroom and selection of boats in the west. I found that their sales people had a great knowledge of the Mastercraft products and were extremely nice to deal with. It sounds like you need to sell your boat and buy a Toyota Echo and a canoe. I won’t bash you for doing that.

By the way I sold my Cobalt to buy a Mastercraft.

Jim@BAWS
05-01-2005, 11:11 PM
STORM,
Save me the SOB STORY Please. MasterCraft is not going stop and STAND IDLE and wait for you to upgrade your 14 year old boat. I love a OLDER MC just as much as the next guy or girl Especially a 1993 PS 190 Stars and Stripes or a 94 w/a LT-1. What do you think the current PS 197 is based on? You can and probably and will sell it for more than you paid for it. In DESCENT shape that boat will still draw between 13-16 K depending on location.

If you do not want a $125K do not buy it. I SOLD the FIRST "SALTWATER SERIES" X-80 in the WORLD...the owner LOVES it. $120 K Before tax without trailer. The owner DIDNOT come to us looking for a PS197. he wanted a X-80. As a DEALER I try my best to analize the best product for the boaters situation. DIRECT DRIVE inboards are not going anywhere. People purchase from us knowing that we sell ALOT of them. Of couse the 197 is the LEAST expensiive boat we sell. ITS THE SMALLEST. Price a comparable Chapparrel or even a SEARAY (100% Chopper Gun) and the X-80 is LESS per foot. Do your homework. The lifestyle and the industry has changed. If you want things to remain the same go to CUBA!!! This is AMERICA.

Your dealer in UTAH (UTAH WATERSPORTS) leads the industry. I hope to be there myself someday. Anyone...anyone who walks through our door as a MASTERCRAFT owner is treated as if he or she purchased from us. Thats why I am a dealer. Just ask anyone who has purchased from us !

TOM, by the way...you are not as knowlegable as you think. Mastercraft has and always will be 100% hand laid glass. and we do use stainless harware ALL OVER THE PLACE... Maybe just maybe you own one of those other boats made down the street that are "JUST AS GOOD AS A MASTERCRAFT" But they are not!!! Just maybe I could be wrong.


Just my opinion TOM

Jim@Bay Area WaterSports

SD190EVO
05-01-2005, 11:25 PM
I have to go with Jim@BAWS on this one.

When my wife used to complain to me about things and it would all be negative like, "I dont like this and I dont like that...", I'd say, "Don't tell me what you don't like, tell me what you would like and we can see if we can make that happen."

I'd be interested to hear what you'd have liked to have seen?

MasterMason
05-01-2005, 11:47 PM
STORM,
Anyone...anyone who walks through our door as a MASTERCRAFT owner is treated as if he or she purchased from us. Thats why I am a dealer. Just ask anyone who has purchased from us !




I can vouch for that, and I have never even been in the state of Florida. I wish Jim owned a dealer in Northern CA.

Leroy
05-02-2005, 12:06 AM
Sure André blame it on the boarders!

:D One thing i beleive is that those big bad wakeboarding boats price tags make the traditionnals skiboats price tags go up much more then it should!
Really not much justify the increase in a Prostar price for the last 10 years.

gogo
05-02-2005, 01:44 AM
Hmmm the dealer here in Alberta was lamenting his decision of not ordering more 197's for this year as they are all sold.
My wife and I are predominantly slalom skiers, but do enjoy a good board at the end of a long day of skiing. The move to wakeboarding has saved the industry as evidenced by the influx of so many new inboard owners. They now know what we always knew, “The best made boats”.
Our kids influenced are new boat purchase. Placate the parents need to ski with the kids need to board. Not the best of both worlds but a good compromise. I hope to influence the kids towards slalom but peer pressure and marketing have a greater influence than dad or mom. I am just glad that we all enjoy being on the water together.

MYMC
05-02-2005, 10:37 AM
So far this year (as of May 1) we have delivered 14 PS197s with the MCX Slot combination...slalom isn't dead.

Last time I checked water sports (skiing, footing, tricking and yes wakeboarding) were family oriented recreational activities...bigger families need bigger boats with more room...how many SUVs are sold each year? This is America most of us like things BIG, after all this is the home of the BIG GULP and 3500 sq/ft homes for couples with one child. Besides no one can argue the way a bigger boat rides in rough water.

I really don't understand the anger and hostility that is expressed sometimes...MasterCraft is not the only company that is in this price range, they all are.

It was once said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder...if you don’t like the new stuff that is fine; however, your dealer is marketing to what is selling. You may be the world’s biggest closed bow fan but why should he go broke waiting for the world to agree with you?

captkidd
05-02-2005, 10:43 AM
cuz, it'd take a rocket scientist to get this thing started!!!:eek:

Cobalt 343
http://www.cobaltboats.com/model_line/343/slides/34302.jpg

That looks like the interior of the Batboat! Pretty cool if you ask me. Is the steering wheel on the left side of the boat?

Oh yeah, on the subject of this thread, I agree with all of you.

peason
05-02-2005, 10:45 AM
Gogo - I couldn't have said it better. It sure is great to have a family sport that we all love to do together. We have some great memories and are looking to have a lot more behind our 209. As a family of 6, we just plain out grew our '84 closed bow, since we don't live on the water and have to pack every thing up for a day on the lake.

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 12:41 PM
Wasn't most of the hardware through bolted by the early 90s? I thought most of mine was, but ICBW.

I think Thomas raises some valid points. I think he should feel free to raise these points without it being suggested that he move to Cuba if he doesn't like it. The dealers who frequent this board have every right to their opinions, too. I know Thomas was on a tear, but, aw hell, let's just all play nice and quit trying to up the population of nearby communist nations.

I visited the dealer where I bought my boat last spring hoping to get an up-close look at a 197 or 190, and the only DD boat on the floor was a 209. Needless to say, I was a little disappointed (not that the 209 isn't nice, but I wanted to see the 197). Was I going to buy a boat that day? No. But were I going to buy, if I can't sit in it, I'm taking my business elsewhere. My local non-MC dealer has its DD closed bow ski boat in the showroom. I'm sure a lot of MC dealers keep one of these on hand. What I'm getting at is I get what Thomas is saying.

Of course, when you make your money off the wakeboard boats, what should I expect to see in there. Like they say, these boats are there because they're selling. But if you don't have something tangible that I, or other prospective, slalom skiers and closed bow, DD boat buyers are looking for, you risk losing the sale to another dealer, who may not be carrying MC products. The sad part about the situation is that this dealer, who deals for both MC and 'Bu, had multiple 'Bu DD boats on the floor.

I happen not to be a huge fan of the X-80 either. Just not my cup of tea. But if MC can sell them, so be it. I'm not bashing it. I just can't think of a situation where I, personally, would have any use for it. I'm sure the X-80 owners love it. I wish them well.

I guess I didn't really have a point afterall. Sorry for the longwindedness.

rodltg2
05-02-2005, 12:52 PM
although i am not the biggest fan of my dealer, what they have done is put one boat of each model on the showroom floor (except the 190 ) . if someone wants one they pull it from their inventory in the back or another store. cope and mcpheters has many locations.

Ric
05-02-2005, 01:00 PM
my salesman was quick to tell me they don't sell a ton of 197's, (mostly 209's) when it comes to dd. This was when I asked, hey, you don't have any 197's on the floor? what are you crazy? That's the coolest boat you make! :D

Note: CC dealer didn't have a closed bow on the showroom floor when I was looking either, nor did the Supra dealer.....

I didn't whine, in fact I see thier situation and I wouldn't have wanted the green and blue version they had on the floor anyway ;)
Sooooo, if you're a dealer, why stock a 190 on a floorplan when the hardcore guy would most likely want a different motor, trans, gelcoat or other option anyway?

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 01:01 PM
I think that's the way to do it. Ultimately, most people special order these things. But I'm the kind of person who likes to kick the tires, or the prop. ;)

rodltg2
05-02-2005, 01:14 PM
i agree east tex. if i hadnt seen my boat and drove it , i probably wouldnt have bought it. just to be fair , before i bought my mc i did want to shop other brands. i went to the cc dealer, very rude and they didnt have a 196 or 209 only the air models. when i asked for a price on either of those he just sain 45 or something. next i wenmt to go see supra, a guy in my lake has one and i wanted to check it out. only had a moomba outback and a supra launch vdrive. when i asked about the comp lts , the guy told me the outback is pretty much the same and i should really consider it instead, i pretty much laughed at him and told him that i was looking to upgrade not downgrade.

River Rat
05-02-2005, 01:49 PM
:popcorn: I bought mine from my Neighbor and it's the only one he had on the floor.:popcorn:

SteveO
05-02-2005, 01:58 PM
Pretty disappointing.
1. Not a single direct drive boat in the place. There were a couple USED direct drives out in the lot of various brands, but nothing on the showroom floor. Lame. It bums me out that the market has shifted this dramatically.

2. Idiotic sales people. .........

WOW, Tell us how you really feel. I am proud to say I am part of the dying breed and couldn't imagine anything but a DD. My dealer indicated that approximately 80% of their sales are V drive, so what do you do. Hope you are having a better day today than when you left the post. If not, get out and ski, that should relieve the stress... Until one of those huge pickle fork beasts throws a 4 foot roller your way.

bradamerry
05-02-2005, 02:30 PM
I'm glad my local dealer has had 197s there for me to look at. Not that I'm looking to buy one, but I still have not seen a new 190. I'm just happy I have the boat I want, so I don't have to go halfway across the country to sit in a new 190.

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 03:07 PM
Brad, Gus used to say he could sell 205s 7 days a week and twice on Sundays (I'm paraphrasing). I'm glad to hear he's got some 197s in stock. Don't drool on them. ;)

bradamerry
05-02-2005, 03:10 PM
Brad, Gus used to say he could sell 205s 7 days a week and twice on Sundays (I'm paraphrasing). I'm glad to hear he's got some 197s in stock. Don't drool on them. ;)
He had 3 last year... But remember, ULM has always had good ski teams, so that area still has a big slalom crowd. :headbang:

jayocheskey
05-02-2005, 03:11 PM
If I want a Ford Focus, I'm not going to show up to the dealership and complain about them offering Excursions to their customers as well. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

(Not trying to hurt feelings)

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 03:13 PM
Sooooo, if you're a dealer, why stock a 190 on a floorplan when the hardcore guy would most likely want a different motor, trans, gelcoat or other option anyway?

The answer, which doesn't take into account what it would cost to have one sitting out there, is that there are some people who aren't going to order a $45,000.00+ ski boat without a test drive. It's a no-win situation financially. Or maybe they sell wakeboard boats and they win.

Bottom line, if there's not one on the floor I can take for a spin, I can't rationalize ordering a new one. Just the way I operate. Don't worry, I'm well aware that the world doesn't revolve around me. Yet, it is my sincere hope that it will evolve around me. ;)

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 03:14 PM
If I want a Ford Focus, I'm not going to show up to the dealership and complain about them offering Excursions to their customers as well. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

(Not trying to hurt feelings)

Jay, would you order a focus sight unseen?

ski_king
05-02-2005, 03:14 PM
If I want a Ford Focus, I'm not going to show up to the dealership and complain about them offering Excursions to their customers as well. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

(Not trying to hurt feelings)
Maybe a better comparrasion is a Mustang GT vs a Excursion. ;)

bradamerry
05-02-2005, 03:15 PM
If I want a Ford Focus, I'm not going to show up to the dealership and complain about them offering Excursions to their customers as well. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

(Not trying to hurt feelings)
It is not that the dealer has the Excursions, but it is that the dealer doesn't have the Focus!

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 03:16 PM
Maybe a better comparrasion is a Mustang GT vs a Excursion. ;)

Ford GT versus F750. :D

Ric
05-02-2005, 03:47 PM
The answer, which doesn't take into account what it would cost to have one sitting out there, is that there are some people who aren't going to order a $45,000.00+ ski boat without a test drive. It's a no-win situation financially. Or maybe they sell wakeboard boats and they win.

Bottom line, if there's not one on the floor I can take for a spin, I can't rationalize ordering a new one. Just the way I operate. Don't worry, I'm well aware that the world doesn't revolve around me. Yet, it is my sincere hope that it will evolve around me. ;)

Ok, when I said floorplan, I did mean "costs" as these guys have to decide how many boats to finance while deciding how many they can fit on the showroom floor.
No no, I too would not have purchased prior to test drives etc. And I did not mean to imply that anyone was irrational in expecting that.

The other extreme would be for me to expect him to have 6 direct drives on the floor for me to test each layout, motor and trans combination.

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 03:50 PM
Ric, I knew what you meant. I was just using your post as a jumping off point into oblivion. I spent a weekend painting a room, so I'm a little looped from the fumes (even with an open window and a mask).

I'll just revert to the statement, "It's a no win situation for somebody."

bcampbe7
05-02-2005, 03:52 PM
I spent a weekend painting a room, so I'm a little looped from the fumes (even with an open window and a mask).


The DT headaches are killer. They get better in about 2 days, or one good whiff of wet paint. :D

jayocheskey
05-02-2005, 03:58 PM
Jay, would you order a focus sight unseen?
If I have done my homework and know what machine is best suited for me and my driving style, of course I would, it would be my customized Focus -- they're all made the same. (yes, Mustang GT is a better comparison -- these boats should never be compared to a Focus again and I do apologize for that)

If you are sold on a company's quality and craftmanship - as I am with MasterCraft - you put your faith and money into your investment - your boat.

I must also mention that I am extremely fortunate to be dealing with the dealership here in Fort Worth. Jimmy and his staff will literally bend over backward to make certain that your MasterCraft purchasing and OWNING experience is to your greatest satisfaction.

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 04:19 PM
Jay, while I'm glad you've had good experiences with that dealership, my experiences with them have not been good and they have long since lost my business.

As for the Focus analogy, I would assert that part of doing my homework would be to drive an equivilent boat to what I was planning to order. Apart from a dealership, I don't know where I'm going to get that test drive on a brand new MC. It may be a product of my not living in more concentrated population that I don't see more new boats. If we end up getting a MC dealer here next year, that may change.

MYMC
05-02-2005, 05:11 PM
I believe that it is incumbent on a dealer to have a representation of the product line to the best of their financial ability. It is in his best interest to carry more of what sells best and less of what doesn't... in our case I have not stocked a PS190 since 2001; however, we always have a PS197 around and since the bottoms and the powertrains are the same I hope a potential customer will be able to overlook the hole in front of the windshield.

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 05:14 PM
... I hope a potential customer will be able to overlook the hole in front of the windshield.

The only thing that could make that funnier would be if you said "...overlook the duck tape covering the hole in front of the windshield."

8p

Storm861triple
05-02-2005, 05:35 PM
O.K. Folks,

as some good people have pointed out above, my post was MY OPINION. So take it or leave it. Nice to see there are others that seem to share my opinion on here. I know MC and the dealer is doing what they need to, to survive and be profitable, but I'M saying, it bums me out that the market has come to this point! Who ever said "Americans like big things" and that's why the trend is toward big families, SUV's, and big, fat-assed boats...THAT's the whole problem! That, right there is what bums me out. It's a fact of life, this trend of bigger and fatter in America, but it bums me out nevertheless. Also it bums me out that the driving force of everything MC used to be and stand for, (best tourney ski boat made) isn't even represented in a show room. I already know the economical reasons for this, before some of you holier than thou folks tried to explain it (BAWS), but the fact that I know why this happens, doesn't change the fact that I'm bummed about it. O.K.?

Now as for this guy...It is too bad you have to bash your dealer on this forum just because you do not like any other boat than a direct drive ProStar ski boat.

You need to READ my post please. I bashed on the dealer for spewing the cheesiest of used-car salesman lines. I mean, the most cliche' lines poeple joke about were being used...for real! That and their lack of knowledge. (BAWS I'll get to the RAND use in a minute)

It sounds like you need to sell your boat and buy a Toyota Echo and a canoe. I won’t bash you for doing that.
?WHAT? the heck does that have to do w/ANYTHING!? A Toyota? A canoe?? I guess you lost me w/that suggestion. I'm not following you there, partner. Why would I want a Toyota....or a canoe?

And as far as Utah Water sports being knowledgable... well I don't know what to say.
*They didn't know the price of a PS 190 (couldn't even come w/in $10K)
*Didn't know the weight of the X-80.
*They don't really know anything technical at all. i.e., why some design was changed or modified. They have no idea.
*They replace real knowledge (aquired by having a basic passion), with the above mentioned cliche's.

Now, Jim@BAWS, if the deckk of my boat isn't chop, I'd like you to explain to me what it IS. I've been up under my rear deck and gunwales, and what's up under there looks for all the world like chop to me. If it's not, it's some of the stringiest, ugliest, nasty haand laid I've ever seen, but maybe you can educate me here, because after seeing that, I've been thinking all along that the whole deck was chop.

East tx, the windshield and drivers seat aren't through-bolted. My windshield ripped out a couple years ago, and I reattached it w/SS screws, washers, and nuts. The drivers seat, I drilled bigger holes, and epoxied thread-certs in to the floor, to which I then screwed the seat back into. Also, the hull/deck is fastened w/about a 3/4" overlap (called shoeboxing), and then riveted. I've replaced all those rivets w/SS bolts, washers, and nuts. So unfortunately for you and I, everything was not through-bolted in the early 90's boats. Nothing that can't be changed however, if it's even necessary.

So it's nice to see some people feel similarly to me about the open house, and of course there will always be those that don't, which is fine, and then there's those who don't read properly or completely. Oh well... My opinion. :)

Stritt
05-02-2005, 05:51 PM
The Toyota/Canoe comment was a reference to being a hippy tree hugger from Utah. :eek:

:woohoo: I think I just stirred the pot ;)

Seriously, your points could have been made without bashing the dealer or his/her staff.

You aren't interested in a X-80, so why do you care about the weight? You aren't in the market for a new boat, so why do you need to know the price?

Get out and enjoy your 190, it is a great boat!

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 06:01 PM
I don't think it is any secret that some, but not all, dealers can be very frustrating. In the brief time I've been a MC owner, I've dealt with both the good and the not so good.

Thomas's relation to us of the perceived idiocy of his local MC sales folks was a separate rant from his lament as to the supersizing of the inboard boat line like so many big macs.

Say what you will of his opinions. It made for some discussion.

I'm off to tighten the screws on my windshield (or I would if my boat wasn't in the shop).

Play nice while I'm gone. ;)

AirJunky
05-02-2005, 06:09 PM
East tx, the windshield and drivers seat aren't through-bolted. My windshield ripped out a couple years ago, and I reattached it w/SS screws, washers, and nuts.
The windshield on my '94 is thru-bolted. I pulled it to install defroster vents on the dash & had to climb under the dash to get to all the nuts & washers. I'm not the first owner, but the PO only put 60 hours on it & had not installed anything, stereo, heater, shower, nada.
BTW, some dealers need a good bashing. 2 yrs ago we were talking about dealers that sucked & then both the Seattle dealers had their dealership status revoked. Now there is a new dealer in town who actually takes care of their customers...... and has a few 197s in the showroom.

Storm861triple
05-02-2005, 06:28 PM
Seriously, your points could have been made without bashing the dealer or his/her staff.

You aren't interested in a X-80, so why do you care about the weight? You aren't in the market for a new boat, so why do you need to know the price?

Thomas's relation to us of the perceived idiocy of his local MC sales folks was a separate rant from his lament as to the supersizing of the inboard boat line like so many big macs.
Exactly. 2 Separate issues. I didn't bash the deal because I didn't like the X-80. I don't like it. I also don't like sale staff that don't know their product, and thow around small-minded sales jargon. Who does?

Plus, it was the whole experience there. I went to see cool boats. I didn't see any (that I, Tom Kendrick, think are cool). I went to chat a bit w/fellow passionate MC'ers...the dealer staff. Didn't find any there. Also, I will never buy an X-80. But I may (probably) buy another 190. I would think the dealer would preffer that I buy it from them. No?

Also make NO mistake. I'm not a tree hugger. I'm not a hippy. I am from Utah, and I do believe that I have a sense of what's reasonable. IMO 700hp pushing a 6200 lb boat for a day w/the fam is a bit over the top, IMO , but I guess that's a big part of where our culture is lately. Which bums me out.

Storm861triple
05-02-2005, 06:32 PM
The windshield on my '94 is thru-bolted. I pulled it to install defroster vents on the dash & had to climb under the dash to get to all the nuts & washers. I'm not the first owner, but the PO only put 60 hours on it & had not installed anything, stereo, heater, shower, nada.
BTW, some dealers need a good bashing. 2 yrs ago we were talking about dealers that sucked & then both the Seattle dealers had their dealership status revoked. Now there is a new dealer in town who actually takes care of their customers...... and has a few 197s in the showroom.
Interesting about the screws on your windshield. I didn't know that about '94s. Mines a '92. Now I wonder when they switch methods?

Here, here about the dealers...sometimes. I was just telling about my experience. :)

rabooze
05-02-2005, 07:23 PM
"It sounds like you need to sell your boat and buy a Toyota Echo and a canoe." Now that was classic!

USC8791
05-02-2005, 07:48 PM
I agree that every dealer should have a DD on their lot (if not several). You can't sell what you don't have. I'm like a lot of slalom skiers. I'd like to see jet skis and wakeboard boats banished to Lake Michigan or some other far away big body of water. The reality though is that wakeboard boats and their wanna-be competitors (i.e. putting a tower on a Regal or Sea Ray) are the hottest market in the industry right now. If MC doesn't grab their share, they won't survive. If they don't survive they can no longer make slalom boats.

And what's wrong with stuff getting bigger? I know I like to have a girl with big ones sitting in my observer seat. ;)

I just realized some people may not agree with that last statement. Didn't Mag have a chick leave after she had her's enlarged?

Ric
05-02-2005, 07:50 PM
I agree that every dealer should have a DD on their lot (if not several). You can't sell what you don't have. I'm like a lot of slalom skiers. I'd like to see jet skis and wakeboard boats banished to Lake Michigan or some other far away big body of water. The reality though is that wakeboard boats and their wanna-be competitors (i.e. putting a tower on a Regal or Sea Ray) are the hottest market in the industry right now. If MC doesn't grab their share, they won't survive. If they don't survive they can no longer make slalom boats.
And what's wrong with stuff getting bigger? I know I like to have a girl with big ones sitting in my observer seat. ;)

I just realized some people may not agree with that last statement. Didn't Mag have a chick leave after she had her's enlarged?
You DAWG :noface:

André
05-02-2005, 07:58 PM
Low shot...

USC8791
05-02-2005, 08:02 PM
All in light hearted good fun. :)

east tx skier
05-02-2005, 11:53 PM
The windshield on my '94 is thru-bolted.

I think mine is through bolted (at least partially) at the corners where it attaches to the hull. I practically had to dislocate my shoulder to tighten it once. My local non-MC dealer noticed it when I as a big newbie first took it by there to get it dewinterized. I remember he tried to tighten it from the outside and complimented MC for through bolting.

PO might have swapped things out, but I haven't noticed any other mods.

peason
05-03-2005, 02:04 AM
I agree classic - good points by all.

sizzler
05-03-2005, 06:21 AM
i've been away alll weekend enjoying my boat and family life......can we start this again. ;)

different strokes for dif. folks......if not we would all be boring :toast:

Stritt
05-03-2005, 08:22 AM
"IMO 700hp pushing a 6200 lb boat for a day w/the fam is a bit over the top, IMO , but I guess that's a big part of where our culture is lately. Which bums me out."

Do the math........1/2 the weight of 6200 is 3100#'s which is close to the weight of a 197.

1/2 the 700 HP is 350 HP mid engine option for a 197.....

So, All of us really are over the top, I know I am because I have 385HP.

I don't really need it......but it sure nice to have sitting there ready ;)

Diesel
05-03-2005, 09:58 AM
I think mine is through bolted (at least partially) at the corners where it attaches to the hull. I practically had to dislocate my shoulder to tighten it once. My local non-MC dealer noticed it when I as a big newbie first took it by there to get it dewinterized. I remember he tried to tighten it from the outside and complimented MC for through bolting.

PO might have swapped things out, but I haven't noticed any other mods.

The windshields in the early 90s were installed by the dealer. My boat came shrink wrapped with the windshields packaged inside and the dealer had to install. As a result there could be some variations in the method used depending upon the dealer. On my 95 they were thru bolted but did not use lock nuts only star washers. As a result, I almost lost the entire passenger unit in the lake one weekend.

Like most owners I too had to buy quality fasteners and lock nuts and fix it for good. As mentioned earlier I also had to remove all the rivets and reattach my rub rail with stainless screws, washers, and lock nuts.

tph
05-03-2005, 10:23 AM
Like most owners I too had to buy quality fasteners and lock nuts and fix it for good. As mentioned earlier I also had to remove all the rivets and reattach my rub rail with stainless screws, washers, and lock nuts.

I thought I was the only one to do this..funny how we rebuild our boats!

John B
05-03-2005, 11:43 AM
[QUOTE=USC8791] I'm like a lot of slalom skiers. I'd like to see jet skis and wakeboard boats banished to Lake Michigan or some other far away big body of water.

I second that. :D

Storm861triple
05-03-2005, 11:50 AM
"IMO 700hp pushing a 6200 lb boat for a day w/the fam is a bit over the top, IMO , but I guess that's a big part of where our culture is lately. Which bums me out."

Do the math........1/2 the weight of 6200 is 3100#'s which is close to the weight of a 197.

1/2 the 700 HP is 350 HP mid engine option for a 197.....

So, All of us really are over the top, I know I am because I have 385HP.

I don't really need it......but it sure nice to have sitting there ready ;)

A 197 weighs 2800 lbs, not 3100, and a 190 weighs 2620. BUT that had nothing to do w/my point. I wasn't saying the power to weight ratio was "over the top". IF that was the case my old boat, an 800 lb hull w/a 200 hp outboard would be WAY out there!

I was trying to say that having a boat that big, sucking down that much fuel making that big a wake, just to cruise around w/your fam, is ridiculous...IMO I never said anything about power to weight ratio. But to that end, the 190 and the 197 both have a much better ratio...and uses less than 1/2 the fuel!

That X-80 can burn up to a cool 56 gallons per hour, according to my calculations. A waste IMO.

Edit: I just looked up a test, and my calculations were off. The X-80 only burns 49 GPH, not the 56 I thought. A veritable fuel mizer! lol.

Ric
05-03-2005, 11:52 AM
A 197 weighs 2800 lbs, not 3100, and a 190 weighs 2620. BUT that had nothing to do w/my point. I wasn't saying the power to weight ratio was "over the top". IF that was the case my old boat, an 800 lb hull w/a 200 hp outboard would be WAY out there!

I was trying to say that having a boat that big, sucking down that much fuel making that big a wake, just to cruise around w/your fam, is ridiculous...IMO I never said anything about power to weight ratio. But to that end, the 190 and the 197 both have a much better ratio...and uses less than 1/2 the fuel!

That X-80 can burn up to a cool 56 gallons per hour, according to my calculations. A waste IMO.
but you can dock your jetskis on the back of it

east tx skier
05-03-2005, 12:08 PM
Just to prove I've been paying attention to Thomas's posts in other forums, to a certain extent, isn't the degree of wetted surface and inability to trim the drive train what necessitates, to a certain degree, the high output engines? Throw towed watersports into the equation and add some horsepower. Also, probably good to point out at this point that the extra engine on the X-80 is optional as I understand it. Two engines just to cruise seems like overkill to me.

jimmer2880
05-03-2005, 12:23 PM
The windshields in the early 90s were installed by the dealer. My boat came shrink wrapped with the windshields packaged inside and the dealer had to install. As a result there could be some variations in the method used depending upon the dealer. On my 95 they were thru bolted but did not use lock nuts only star washers. As a result, I almost lost the entire passenger unit in the lake one weekend.

Like most owners I too had to buy quality fasteners and lock nuts and fix it for good. As mentioned earlier I also had to remove all the rivets and reattach my rub rail with stainless screws, washers, and lock nuts.

interesting... my 95 has the nuts that have the star washers integerated. However - they still came loose.

Reminds me - I need to go loctite my windshield nuts.

Scot
05-03-2005, 03:26 PM
Boat Dealer's Open House? I thought everyday is open house for any business. Sounds like a gimmick to get the peeps into the showroom... (nothing new and nothing wrong with it)

Everybody gets their one chance a year to go and kick the prop on every brand of boat possible at the boat show... It's a place where a factory rep should be present to get your questions answered...(hopefully)... All you need is the self control not to leave with a new one! If you do, you get the opportunity to forge a relationship with a factory exec and the local dealer.... Gets more skin in the game for trouble resolution.
Sales people are a necessary evil.... NOTHING HAPPENS UNTIL SOMETHING IS SOLD.... Granted we all like some better that others... (dealers and salesfolks)

I agree it would be nice if every Ski Boat dealer had their version of basic DD... or at least let you know when they will be getting one in.... (because they JUST sold their last one, etc.) But keep in mind these dealers have to "float" their cash in the most profitable ways, most new buyers require dual wake and ski...

It would be like going to the chevy dealer that didn't stock any Vettes...

As far as style, the pickle fork might very well be the 58' Chevy that replaced the most popular 57..... ( we all know what happened there). Only time will tell. At the same time, I applaud MC for having the nads for venturing out.

AirJunky
05-03-2005, 03:47 PM
Boat Dealer's Open House?
Here the open house is on the water so you get to actually drive or ski behind the boat.... which ain't gonna happen at the boat show.

Scot
05-03-2005, 04:00 PM
ahhh, mongo understand