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captain planet
09-09-2008, 04:39 PM
Well, with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae getting bailed out by the government our national debt went from approximately $9+ Trillion to about $15 Trillion. :noface::huh:

Sweet dreams.

ShamrockIV
09-09-2008, 04:54 PM
ouch!!!!!! i read about that yesterday. they said it would have destoyed the economy to let them fail though!!

when you get into that amount of money what is the difference?

jkski
09-09-2008, 05:03 PM
I certainly understand the reasoning behind the "bailout" so, putting that aside for a minute......
With Freddie and Fannie being publicly traded companies(from my understanding), and knowing that I do not own stock in them, I was wondering if the government would step in and boost some of the companies that I do own stock in, since it is taxpayer money that is being used anyways!!!
Another thought...The statement was made that the government will be running Freddie and Fannie in place of the current 2 executives...is it just me or does this seem like the blind leading the blind!!!

TX.X-30 fan
09-09-2008, 05:27 PM
They are quasi govt run entities anyway, the lending rules were relaxed to a point where it was just another govt giveaway to get low income folks in homes. They were basically pushed by the federal govt to lower lending standards to get more people in houses.

Its not as bad as they make it out these loans in their portfolio have lost value but the underlying collateral in not worth nothing.

c_craig
09-09-2008, 10:05 PM
The numbers I saw today are $53 Trillion. There is a movement out there to try to make changes that would reverse $15 Trillion of that (don't know the timeframe). The other number that was given, so that I can get my pea brain wrapped around anything ending in "trillion", is $450,000 per US household.

bcampbe7
09-09-2008, 11:17 PM
All this because the American consumer no longer has any concept of personal finance. The Fanny and Freddie crap would have never happened if the general population of Americans spent less than they made and put some money away for a rainy day. I know for a fact that I cannot afford a $500K house. Therefore I am not going to go out and borrow money for a $500K house. This is not rocket science people.

While they are at it I think that the government should give welfare recipients a raise. I mean heck, professional athletes make millions, why shouldn't professional a$$ sitters make good money too!



.

'02xrider
09-09-2008, 11:46 PM
[QUOTE=bcampbe7;538665]All this because the American consumer no longer has any concept of personal finance. The Fanny and Freddie crap would have never happened if the general population of Americans spent less than they made and put some money away for a rainy day. I know for a fact that I cannot afford a $500K house. Therefore I am not going to go out and borrow money for a $500K house. This is not rocket science people.


I couldn't agree more. When I bought my house the bank said I was qualified for 4x as much as I had already figured. I stuck with MY figures.

In my opinion, the person that ok'd the loans and the person receiving the loan they can't afford should be held responsible, not the rest of us.

j2nh
09-10-2008, 12:12 AM
While I agree with you that the American consumer has no sense of personal finance it strikes me as odd that no one's feet are being held to the fire over this or any of the other collapses that have taken place in this industry in the past year.
Unfortunately lots of people want things, big houses, that they cannot afford. "Professionals" (and I use the term loosely) in many cases convinced these people that with increasing property values and their certain income growth they could live beyond their means. Not letting anybody off the hook but I do think that the industry bears a certain burden of guilt for this mess and NOT the US taxpayer base as a whole.
Oops, spoke to soon, looks like the Freddie and Fannie CEO's won't be getting their bonuses this year!

PEOPLE NEED TO GO TO JAIL OVER SOME OF THIS STUFF!!!!!

JimN
09-10-2008, 12:16 AM
As I understand it, the Federal Government is taking control (leaving the CEOs in place- I don't understand that part) and loaning money to them until they can re-sell the notes and bring in more working capital. Then, they will repay the debt at whatever interest rate they decide on. Any burden on us will be countered by a tax rate adjustment at some future time. Most likely, far enough in the future that we'll either forget or not be above ground anymore. It's not the whole amount that the government is on the hook for.

Just like when the insurance industry made a load of bad investments and lost money, we got saddled with that F-up, too.

I can't wait to build my compound, out in the middle of nowhere. Solar power, a well with water purification, acres of land, cameras all over the place. That way, I can see the black helicopters more easily.

Just kidding.

Maristar210
09-10-2008, 12:25 AM
Someone in Minnesota should be along soon to tell us all why we should pay for those who choose to do... not a goddam thing

He'll make it sound good but in fact it;s harboring lazy mother ****ers

Monte
09-10-2008, 12:29 AM
I think the problem is we live in an entitlement society. Yes my wife had to be on WIC and Medicaid when we first got married. She was four months along and we had a little apartment that my parents paid for because I was in college. You know, I worked my rear end off to graduate 5 months later and finally did. Leah worked up to two days before giving birth and was the size of a house. When I graduated I we were on our own I took the first job that was hiring. Tile work of all things (because where can you REALLY work in Travel tourism, recreation management in Shelby, NC?). My boss was an alcoholic, We went out of town for weeks at a time. I carried 30 sheets of duraroc up 3 and 4 flights of steps on a regular basis. The last week I worked for this guy I recieved a $19 check (chargebacks from his lazy *** go to work at 10 get off at 2 out of town Plus I had to help pay for the hotel and his beer). Needless to say I got a job selling cars I worked LONG hours. We came off the nipple of the fed my first month. Except..... I bought my first home through Sallie. She was good to us except for the crappy loan we signed up for. 2yr ballon adjustable. Our payment went from 419 to 870 the month after two years ended. Thank God I met the man that put me in the insurance business. I sold him a car and he asked me to come work for him. Because he could tell I was busting my ***.. after 4 yrs in that position I bought a new house. That one went on the market. Two years later it sold. Now I'm stll an insurance agent and manage about 450 clients. Yes I work hard, but I love it, I BS with people most of the time and deal with the occasional headache or hard case. I guess what I'm saying is I could have been a statistic, but I strived to better myself.

The problem is people in our society don't repect hard work any more. The don't believe in an honest wage. I cannot for the life of me figure out why or how somebody can sit on their *** all day and watch springer. It is always "their" problem why didn't the gov't come in here sooner and get us out of this swamp sooner? They told you to leave before it became a swamp. I talk to people everyday about life insurance. You would be amazed at the number of people that will say "who cares once I'm dead it's not my problem" They have families and say that. Sometimes in front of a spouse who pretty much agrees. It blows my mind. No offese to anyone who lost a family member or friend in the world trade center attacks, but it hurt this country in a different way. The outpouring of finacial support for those families was great, I'm sure it helped them a lot, but now people feel like they deserve some free payout. Guess what it is NOT going to happen. That is until we have to call uncle sam in to bail us out. We have millions of Illegal immigrants feeding off of our system taking our jobs.. Guess what? they "deserve" it too. What do we do when we see a pack of them doing road constuction? We drive on by. Calling the cops is futile because that is "racial profiling". Instead we will continue to pay for their healthcare and food stamps while they collect pay under the table. Oh then they send it to Mexico. Why are jobs leaving? They aren't.. somebody else is doing them. The system is broken. The factories have become so over run with the unions that job performance is no longer a measurement of success. It is I "deserve" again. The laborors pay such high dues to the unions that their jobs a have gone overseas due to competition. We as Americans have our heads up our asses if we don't start making people accountable for their financial decisions. People on welfare are OK as long as they are doing something to get off of it. We need to be drug testing every recipient of it though, and monitoring hours in class toward a meaningful occupation. if they slip up? don't send the damn check. The fed actually PAYS people NOT to grow crops.. What in the hell is that? If nothing else plant freaking corn everywhere and sell it to the rest of the world, make ethanol, make whiskey.. People in this nation need to basically get off their asses... ahhhh

stevo137
09-10-2008, 12:31 AM
.....................................wimpy boy

JimN
09-10-2008, 12:37 AM
"The problem is people in our society don't respect hard work any more."

Those of us who do it, do. Those who are handed everything and want it to stay that way, don't. If welfare had conditions for recipients to live up to, I could go along with it. Strict conditions, with payback if they don't do what they're required to.

TX.X-30 fan
09-10-2008, 10:21 AM
Great post Monte.

88 PS190
09-10-2008, 09:00 PM
Ya but they want to finance me for my new plasma TV!

Who doesn't want a big new shiny TV and 10 years of payments?

cbryan70
09-10-2008, 09:05 PM
you want to solve the freddie mac and fannie deal without us paying for the debt? http://www.nms-financial.com/12.html click on residential real-estate and play with that program. Guy I work with has this patented.