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bmargol
08-24-2008, 12:02 PM
05 pro star 197 took to factory to get a comp rudder to fix play in steering. Factory put in new comp rudder, play is gone but NOW Water comes in under turning load. Called Mastercraft factory and they sent a new sealed bearing busing. The existing one is good, I think the problem is there is supposed to be a top plastic 3inch washer and a lower one under the boat so I am told and after inspection not there.
Any one have experience with this situation on newer rudder assemblies?
I think Mastercraft should post details( sketches or pics) of simple areas like shaft assemblies and rudder assemblies!
I AM AGGRAVATED THAT I TOOK THE TIME TO TAKE THE BOAT TO THE FACTORY AND STILL NOT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!

bigmac
08-24-2008, 12:44 PM
There are a couple of different rudder assemblies that MasterCraft uses, apparently. Mine was of the simpler variety as detailed in the photos. Two O rings and a nylon bushing on the top of the port. Any time I've ever had water leaking from the rudder, it stops completely with a couple of shots of grease into the rudder port zerk. With that rudder, leakage is prevented by close tolerance shaft-to-port and the grease. The O rings are primarily to keep that grease in. The nylon bushing has no sealing duty.

http://mccollister.info/rudder/rudder2345.jpg
http://mccollister.info/rudder/rudder78.jpg

I don't know about the other rudder port MC uses, which IIUC has a sort of boot fitting on top. Inside the grey boot at the top is a seal held in place with a snap ring. If yours has this type of rudder port and it's leaking under load (a turn), then very possibly that seal is bad. Or, it may be leaking at the base (where the red line is on the photo).

http://mccollister.info/rudder/other rudder.jpg

bmargol
08-26-2008, 07:00 AM
Thanks. Took apart the assembly and now understand the situation. The 2 plastic O rings or washers do hold the grease in (as you said) BUT without them the grease is pushed into the boat under load and therfore water starts to pass thru. You can pump grease in but without top and bottom rings to hold it in, goes all over the bilge!!!
THANKS AGAIN FOR THE INFO

coz
08-26-2008, 07:55 AM
There are a couple of different rudder assemblies that MasterCraft uses, apparently. Mine was of the simpler variety as detailed in the photos. Two O rings and a nylon bushing on the top of the port. Any time I've ever had water leaking from the rudder, it stops completely with a couple of shots of grease into the rudder port zerk. With that rudder, leakage is prevented by close tolerance shaft-to-port and the grease. The O rings are primarily to keep that grease in. The nylon bushing has no sealing duty.

http://mccollister.info/rudder/rudder2345.jpg
http://mccollister.info/rudder/rudder78.jpg

I don't know about the other rudder port MC uses, which IIUC has a sort of boot fitting on top. Inside the grey boot at the top is a seal held in place with a snap ring. If yours has this type of rudder port and it's leaking under load (a turn), then very possibly that seal is bad. Or, it may be leaking at the base (where the red line is on the photo).

http://mccollister.info/rudder/other rudder.jpg

Very informative BM, this tutorial with pics was great job :D

TMCNo1
08-26-2008, 09:00 AM
Thanks. Took apart the assembly and now understand the situation. The 2 plastic O rings or washers do hold the grease in (as you said) BUT without them the grease is pushed into the boat under load and therfore water starts to pass thru. You can pump grease in but without top and bottom rings to hold it in, goes all over the bilge!!!
THANKS AGAIN FOR THE INFO

Most any hardware store like Ace, True Value have drawers in the plumbing section with all kinds if O rings and just buy a couple pairs of different sizes that fit snug on the rudder shaft, making sure they are of the diameter that will fit in the slot in the rudder port. Be sure to apply some grease to the rudder shaft and inside the rudder port in the o ring area to be sure the shaft doesn't tear the o rings when installing the rudder. You want the right size o ring to assure it fills in the slot completely in the port and makes a good seal against the shaft. You'll catch on when you do it.

coz
08-26-2008, 09:11 AM
Most any hardware store like Ace, True Value have drawers in the plumbing section with all kinds if O rings and just buy a couple pairs of different sizes that fit snug on the rudder shaft, making sure they are of the diameter that will fit in the slot in the rudder port. Be sure to apply some grease to the rudder shaft and inside the rudder port in the o ring area to be sure the shaft doesn't tear the o rings when installing the rudder. You want the right size o ring to assure it fills in the slot completely in the port and makes a good seal against the shaft. You'll catch on when you do it.

Those drawers come in handy :D on my last boat (mercruiser) I had a tiny o-ring go out in the lower unit and the dealer wanted $140 for the entire gasket/ring kit for that drive and wouldn't sell a single o-ring, I didn't need the entire kit with every gasket and ring, I needed 1 tiny o-ring. Went to HD and was out the door with the ring for .23 cents :banana: never leaked again :D

I also use the drawers for stainless nuts & bolts too :cool:

bmargol
08-26-2008, 09:19 AM
To all the replies
Thanks again for all the help, hope to finally fix this weekend.

TMCNo1
08-26-2008, 10:12 AM
Those drawers come in handy :D on my last boat (mercruiser) I had a tiny o-ring go out in the lower unit and the dealer wanted $140 for the entire gasket/ring kit for that drive and wouldn't sell a single o-ring, I didn't need the entire kit with every gasket and ring, I needed 1 tiny o-ring. Went to HD and was out the door with the ring for .23 cents never leaked again

I also use the drawers for stainless nuts & bolts too :cool:


My drawers are full of nuts and a bolt!:rolleyes::D

coz
08-26-2008, 10:22 AM
My drawers are full of nuts and a bolt!

Stailess?:confused: because there probably rusted and hard to "get off" if not 8p:D

TMCNo1
08-26-2008, 10:47 AM
Stailess?:confused: because there probably rusted and hard to "get off" if not 8p:D

Did I say I had nuts and a bolt in my drawers? Sorry, I ment bolts, and a few other pieces and spare parts,
39479

39480

coz
08-26-2008, 11:03 AM
Did I say I had nuts and a bolt in my drawers? Sorry, I ment bolts, and a few other pieces and spare parts,
39479

39480

I told you I was a follower :confused: I need to follow your lead :rolleyes: here's my collection :confused:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2252/2463788968_abe26e4e66_b.jpg

Jimmauburn
08-26-2008, 11:10 AM
WOW Harold I don't feel bad now as most of my "FRIENDS" give me such a hard time about my organization and all of my little boxes that I keep things in !!!!!! Glad to see I am not the only one who has that problem with where my Nuts & Bolts go !!!!

TMCNo1
08-26-2008, 11:12 AM
I know I preach spare parts, but how about MasterCraft and related decals,
39482

coz
08-26-2008, 11:27 AM
I know I preach spare parts, but how about MasterCraft and related decals,
39482

A tool box full of MC decals?? nice :D

TMCNo1
08-26-2008, 11:50 AM
Sorry, 39483

This thread was about rudder port O rings, I've got them too, need 2, buy 4 and have 2 as a spare,
39484

coz
08-26-2008, 11:57 AM
Sorry, 39483

This thread was about rudder port O rings, I've got them too, need 2, buy 4 and have 2 as a spare,
39484

Now we're getting somewhere #1 :rolleyes: where's the tool box with all the other pill bottles?
You know the one labled Harold's little helpers :D

TMCNo1
08-26-2008, 12:12 PM
Now we're getting somewhere #1 :rolleyes: where's the tool box with all the other pill bottles?
You know the one labled Harold's little helpers :D

The other pill bottles are hanging from the shelf and were once filled with my little helpers!:rolleyes::D
39485

Maristar210
08-26-2008, 12:55 PM
The other pill bottles are hanging from the shelf and were once filled with my little helpers!:rolleyes::D
39485

Harold

No wonder we never see the wife. Hell she's too tired to move :D

TMCNo1
08-26-2008, 01:03 PM
Harold

No wonder we never see the wife. Hell she's too tired to move :D

Thanks Steve, I'm busy, busy, busy!:rolleyes::eek3: Now, it takes me all night to do, what I used to do all night!

BrodyB
07-23-2015, 09:43 PM
I know this is a crazy old thread, but most helpful of the "rudder" threads that I've found... New to us '05 Maristar 210 takes on tons of water, 2 gallons?, (no ballast, no rain, no waves over bow...) over say, two hours, and I saw a trickle at rudder port during idle speed easy turns. Rudder has some play on trailer, maybe 1/8" 360 degrees. Rudder port has no zerks, so dropped the rudder to see what I could see: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=1217&pictureid=7364
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=1217&pictureid=7365

Rudder post was mostly clean, and felt like seal was clean and dry as a whistle... Not having a new seal kit, or even snapring pliers, I just gobbed loads of red lithium grease in around the seal and reinstalled the rudder.
Anyone see any problems with this until I can get a seal kit? Does that snapring hold the seal from dropping out the bottom of the port, or does it lift up and out, or...? Any other tips or concerns? Thanks a bunch!

frankster1969
07-24-2015, 02:33 PM
Had the same issue with my 05 x-10, which is the same boat as your 210... You have the same screwed up port with no grease fitting, which means that there is no way to properly maintain it. Also from what you describe as rudder play is probably wear likely to be caused by the the lack of lubrication...

To answer your question, if your leak has stopped or it's reduced to the point where you can deal with it till the end of the season, let it ride till the fall.

After the season remove the entire port and send it off to OJ Props. For $75 + shipping they will send you a "like new" refurbished port, new seals and all, with a grease port so you can keep it lubed... This is the best fix for your problem, I've done it, no big deal. The hardest thing for me was removing the old port...

This is what you get from OJ...

Good luck and feel free to ask any questions... :-)

BrodyB
07-24-2015, 02:44 PM
Thanks for the tip Frankster! Called SkiDIM and was informed mine is an OJ port/seal. From the SkiDIM website, "OJ dripless seal kit. ...seal usually does not need replacement, only if damaged upon installation." I'd prefer to not deal with removing/reinstalling the entire port, but is this a case of 'do it right the first time' type thing? Thinking I'd give just a new seal a go first, unless you and others tried that route only to have to do it again down the road.

CantRepeat
07-24-2015, 03:16 PM
Did you not have a nylon washer ontop of the rudder housing?

Also, I would fill the port with marine grease. Line the inside of the port with it and then lube the rudder shaft with it.

no pun intended

frankster1969
07-24-2015, 03:20 PM
You can definitely try that... The reason I went ahead with the new port is that without a grease fitting you won't be able to grease it, so this issue is likely to return... Also I had concerns about the plastic insert being worn out causing the rudder play which would not be fixed by a new seal...

BrodyB
07-24-2015, 05:23 PM
Tim, yes it did have the nylon washer. Packed with grease and hope to give it a try tomorrow. Now worried that the bilge will fill with grease :(
SkiDIM thought that OJ doesn't offer those rebuilt ports anymore, I called but they close early on Fridays. I'll see what happens this w/end and give OJ a call Monday. Thanks guys.

BrodyB
07-29-2015, 08:30 PM
I know this is a crazy old thread, but most helpful of the "rudder" threads that I've found... New to us '05 Maristar 210 takes on tons of water, 2 gallons?, (no ballast, no rain, no waves over bow...) over say, two hours, and I saw a trickle at rudder port during idle speed easy turns. Rudder has some play on trailer, maybe 1/8" 360 degrees. Rudder port has no zerks, so dropped the rudder to see what I could see: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=1217&pictureid=7364
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=1217&pictureid=7365

Rudder post was mostly clean, and felt like seal was clean and dry as a whistle... Not having a new seal kit, or even snapring pliers, I just gobbed loads of red lithium grease in around the seal and reinstalled the rudder.
Anyone see any problems with this until I can get a seal kit? Does that snapring hold the seal from dropping out the bottom of the port, or does it lift up and out, or...? Any other tips or concerns? Thanks a bunch!

So I have yet to receive new seal from Skidim, but being eager I thought I'd have a go at the takedown ahead of time. Turned out to be super easy. Removed starboard panels from engine compartment. Removed rudder cotter pin. Removed steering linkage. BANG, forgot to support rudder :( but as it's always straight when on trailer it only fell a few inches onto the trailer. Removed vinyl washer from top of port. Removed snap ring. Pulled out seal. Seal is metal housing holding two plastic-ish seals that are super hard/not pliable, (now anyway). There are two blemishes in the bottom seal, but I think they're from my reverse pliers. You can see some of the grease I put in it last week in this closeup pic, but pic from older post shows how dry/clean it was prior to trying temp grease seal (which didn't work). Hopefully install goes as smoothly! Pics: Two old tools were perfect for the job. The washer, ring and seal. Closeup of the seal (Skidim part #82908, Johnson Propeller T-16796).
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=1217&pictureid=7371
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=1217&pictureid=7372
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=1217&pictureid=7373