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jgarner
08-10-2008, 12:15 AM
Well I have about 17 hours on our new 2008 X2 and this morning I decided to change the oil/filter and tranny fluid. So I get the oil drained and start on the filter. I get in there and attempt to remove the filer by hand, since it is only supposed to be hand tight. Well, not even a single budge by hand. Next I go and get the oil filter wrench expecting to put it on the filter, give it a slight tug and bam, it should come loose. It seems like that is not the case either. Just to clarify before you ask, I am definately turning the filter the correct direction. I am turning the filter toward the transom on the RTP motor. I keep tugging with the wrench and I am tugging so hard that it actually crushed the filter to an extent that the filter wrench will not even grip the filter. I move the wrench up toward the top to get a better grip and just more of the same result. By this point the filter has actually torn. Basically, the filter is not unrecognizable as a filter and this point and totally mangled. I then go find a dull chisel and attempt to catch the side filter and tap it with a hammer in attempt to turn the filter and/or knock it loose enough to turn it. Well that fails also.

I call my Dealer (Rambo Marine) and spoke with one of the service guys and he says that he has seen this before on new motors where the factory over tightens the filters and they have the same issues. They suggested the chisel attempt also. As of right now they are going to come over on Tuesday and attempt to get the filter off while it is on the lift at the house. If they can't get it off there they are going to have to take it in.

I am considering making a tool with 4 bolts that will actually go into the flow holes in the filter once all the filter it cut away and basically just the end of the filter left. If I can get the bolts to go into the filter I think I can get enough leverage on it to possibly turn it. Other than that I am out of ideas.

I have completed many, many oil changes in my day and this is just ridiculous. It seems like they put the filter on with an impact wrench. Has anyone every heard or seen anything like this????

Any and all help would be appreciated.

TMCNo1
08-10-2008, 12:43 AM
Well I have about 17 hours on our new 2008 X2 and this morning I decided to change the oil/filter and tranny fluid. So I get the oil drained and start on the filter. I get in there and attempt to remove the filer by hand, since it is only supposed to be hand tight. Well, not even a single budge by hand. Next I go and get the oil filter wrench expecting to put it on the filter, give it a slight tug and bam, it should come loose. It seems like that is not the case either. Just to clarify before you ask, I am definately turning the filter the correct direction. I am turning the filter toward the transom on the RTP motor. I keep tugging with the wrench and I am tugging so hard that it actually crushed the filter to an extent that the filter wrench will not even grip the filter. I move the wrench up toward the top to get a better grip and just more of the same result. By this point the filter has actually torn. Basically, the filter is not unrecognizable as a filter and this point and totally mangled. I then go find a dull chisel and attempt to catch the side filter and tap it with a hammer in attempt to turn the filter and/or knock it loose enough to turn it. Well that fails also.

I call my Dealer (Rambo Marine) and spoke with one of the service guys and he says that he has seen this before on new motors where the factory over tightens the filters and they have the same issues. They suggested the chisel attempt also. As of right now they are going to come over on Tuesday and attempt to get the filter off while it is on the lift at the house. If they can't get it off there they are going to have to take it in.

I am considering making a tool with 4 bolts that will actually go into the flow holes in the filter once all the filter it cut away and basically just the end of the filter left. If I can get the bolts to go into the filter I think I can get enough leverage on it to possibly turn it. Other than that I am out of ideas.

I have completed many, many oil changes in my day and this is just ridiculous. It seems like they put the filter on with an impact wrench. Has anyone every heard or seen anything like this????

Any and all help would be appreciated.

I had it happen on a 305 Olds Cutlass and I tried everything, chisel, torch to heat it up, and finally sprayed it with WD40 around the gasket, center threaded nipple and let it set overnight. Next morning, took the chisel to it thinking it would still be stuck and it spun off like it was loose and came off like a sawblade and cut my arm. But, I was working from underneath, the car was on ramps and I had plenty room to work.

Maristar210
08-10-2008, 12:43 AM
Long screwdriver, punch it through the filter and turn it off.....

bwilson
08-10-2008, 12:46 AM
Was the engine bone cold or did you run it 5 minutes prior to the attempt?

TMCNo1
08-10-2008, 12:48 AM
Long screwdriver, punch it through the filter and turn it off.....
And hope the screwdriver doesn't rip the can completely off the flange and gasket base, if it isn't already been torn off. Be careful, not to hit the center nipple with the chisel and or hammer that the filter screws on and damage the threads or the nipple will have to be replaced.

TheOneandOnly
08-10-2008, 12:56 AM
oh man- I feel for ya-been there before. Nothing better than having something new go sour on such a stupid thing. Im not sure on the area/room to get to it on the RTP but try a large opening pliers. That should work if you have the clearance

jgarner
08-10-2008, 01:06 AM
And hope the screwdriver doesn't rip the can completely off the flange and gasket base, if it isn't already been torn off. Be careful, not to hit the center nipple with the chisel and or hammer that the filter screws on and damage the threads or the nipple will have to be replaced.

I did attempt the screw driver and made sure to get it low enough not to damage any of the threads and it just tore the filter. I also tried a large pair of channel locks with no luck. I know someone asked about if I warmed the boat up before hand and yes I did. I lowered the boat in the water and let it idle to get up to operating temperature.

kdr
08-10-2008, 01:10 AM
Use a strap wrench. I had this happen on one of my cars. The screwdriver through the filter just tore it worse. I got a strap wrench an it broke loose easily. It will provide enough surface area so it can grab without crushing the filter.

jgarner
08-10-2008, 01:17 AM
Well that is the thing. I was using a band type filter wrench made for that size filter so it had plenty of surface area to grab to. I was litterally pulling in the wrench so hard is just crushed the filter completly.

BearCreek
08-10-2008, 01:23 AM
buy the biggest channel locks you can find at least 12" long. These have never failed me. I guarranty it or your money back. It's butter no mattter how mangled.

jgarner
08-10-2008, 01:27 AM
Bear, I was actually using a set of 12 inch channel locks and it just crushed the filter. They were the only thing I could get to grip the filter after the filter wrench crushed it. I was counting on those to work also.

BearCreek
08-10-2008, 01:34 AM
Actualy, I check mine and it was 18" channel lock. I had at least three different sizes and when I used my biggest pair probably the 12's someone on DC wake told get the biggest I cold find, so I did and it literly came off with ease. I guess the extra leveradge really makes a difernce, it sure did for me.

JimN
08-10-2008, 06:33 AM
You don't need to make a special tool. Get a pair of short needle nose pliers and stick the tips onto two of the holes. Then, take the channel locks and grip the needle nose near the tips and turn it. It should come right out.

JohnE
08-10-2008, 07:56 AM
i had the same problem on my 08 x14 for the first oil change. I used a combination of the large channel locks and the long screwdriver through the side of the filter. It wasn't fun. Good luck. Hopefully Jim's tip works.

bigmac
08-10-2008, 10:16 AM
I've had this happen on various filters over the years. Strap wrench -> ChannelLocks on the base -> screwdriver through the body -> filter can torn....that's the point where I rip the rest of the can off and put a pair of big needle-nose pliers into the holes on the flter base, take a long screwdriver and put it between the jaws. Can't fail.


edit: just read the rest of this thread. I agree with JimN.

1boarder
08-10-2008, 11:03 AM
I feel your pain, the same idiot at the factory must of put the filter on my 2008 x2. I crushed the filter beyond recognition and I even had the boshield rust protectant on eveything so it was even slick. I just dove in head first and got both hands on the wrench, moved a different wrench to the top of the filter and wrapped my feet around the ski pole for leverage. It was nuts and my neighbor just walked over and laughed at me for almost 2 hours of trying, but I finally got it.

My dealer is 4 hours away, but if he was close I would of made it his problem.

JimN
08-10-2008, 11:18 AM
"Hopefully Jim's tip works."

It worked when channel locks and the Snap On, Mac, Matco and Cornwell specialty oil filter tools didn't.

This was on a Malibu, whose owner apparently didn't think oil changes were necessary, so it wasn't. For more than three years. His kid finally decided to change it and shredded the Fram filter and when they couldn't get it out, brought it in. Unfortunately, the flange was about 3" below the floor and there was very little room to get hands and tools in, to work on it.

What a nimrod.

snork
08-10-2008, 07:31 PM
When you replace your oil filter don't forget to put oil in the filter before installing it on the engine block. Otherwise you will get a check engine warning when you start it up.

Jerseydave
08-10-2008, 07:50 PM
If there is any filter can left, try a nylon-webbed strap wrench. If you need to break-away the can, you can buy a pin-type spanner wrench from an auto store to remove the base of the filter (if Jim's needle nose plier trick doesn't work).

Always wet the new filter's gasket with a good coat of oil to help prevent this from happening again. (I would bet the original filter was installed with a dry gasket)

jgarner
08-11-2008, 01:04 AM
I attempted to remove the filter for a couple more hours today. I ended up cutting the remaining portion of the filter away, just to leave the base. I got a peice of aluminum bar stock about 3 inches wide and transferred the holes in the bottom of the filter to paper, then onto the aluminum. I drilled four holes and then placed 4 bolts with nuts to the bar. The bolts fit into the filter perfectly, but even with a 12 inch bar I was unable to budge the filter. I am not a weak guy by no means either.

My brother-in-law is going to take the template with him to work tomorrow and transfer it to some 3/13 metal and weld a socket that will fit on my impact wrench to the template. I did a test run with the impact and I can get it under the filter with about 3-4 inches to spare.

If it were not a weekend and my dealership closed on Sunday and Monday I would already have the boat to them.

I appreciate all the ideas guys. I did not think of the spanner wrench idea at all. I will have to keep that one in mind. I will give you an update tomorrow evening.

JimN
08-11-2008, 07:04 AM
DO NOT USE AN IMPACT WRENCH TO REMOVE AN OIL FILTER.

OK, now that I have your attention, take it to the dealer and have it done under warranty. Regardless of what tools you have, can make, get, beg, borrow or steal, if something breaks when you try to remove this, it will not be covered under warranty. If it breaks when the dealer works on it, it will be covered. It sounds like the filter was cross-threaded when it went on at Indmar and if that's the case, the motor may need to come out for this. If you can't loosen it with all you've done so far, it's not a normal problem.

Chief
08-11-2008, 07:42 AM
I think sodar had the same thing happen to him. He had some special tool made just for this occasion.

kev88
08-11-2008, 08:59 AM
I feel your pain - I changed my oil and filter this summer - overtightened the filter and it leaked. I went to loosen it and and it collapsed. Fortunately I collapsed the top of it and was able to get the wrench around the bottom and get it off. This was all while out of town at a wakeboard tournament - on location problems are always fun.

Sodar
08-11-2008, 11:40 AM
I think sodar had the same thing happen to him. He had some special tool made just for this occasion.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=16691

JohnnyB
08-11-2008, 12:33 PM
Ok, not to ask the stupid question....is an X-2 a direct or a v-drive? If it is a v-drive and you're turning the wrench toward the transome you're turning it the right way. If it is a direct drive and your turning toward the transome, I think you'd be turning it the wrong way.

Just trying to re-start with the simple stuff....I'll be the first to admit I don't know my X-boats from my arse......I'm a footer and slalom skier...never been in an X

Ric
08-11-2008, 12:36 PM
I paid $128 for my boat's first oil change at the dealer.. Maybe this tight filter issue is why! :eek:

jgarner
08-11-2008, 12:42 PM
Ok, not to ask the stupid question....is an X-2 a direct or a v-drive? If it is a v-drive and you're turning the wrench toward the transome you're turning it the right way. If it is a direct drive and your turning toward the transome, I think you'd be turning it the wrong way.

Just trying to re-start with the simple stuff....I'll be the first to admit I don't know my X-boats from my arse......I'm a footer and slalom skier...never been in an X

Johnny, It is a V-drive and I am turning the wrench toward the transome.

jgarner
08-11-2008, 01:00 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=16691

Man Sodar. I am in the exact same shape as your where in. All I have left at this point is the base of the filter. I made a tool almost extactly like that yesterday and I gave it all I had yesterday and could not get it to budge. That is why I was considering cutting off the bar portion of the tool and welding a socket to it that would fit my impact gun. The more I think about it that may not be the best idea. I can see the threads with a mirror and they look fine on the stud, but who knows what they look like on the filter base. I am afraid that if is it crossed threaded the damage to the threads on the stud will happen when the filter is backed off.

The dealer is supposed to come and look at the boat tomorrow and see what they can do while it is on the dock. I am going to show them to the adapter for the impact and tell them they are more than welcome to use it, but it is their dime if they do.

What really makes me made about the entire sutuation is the quality control aspect from Indmar. Personally, I think that MC should be controlling their quality a lot better and holding them responsible in cases like this. I know several close family members in automotive manufacturing and if they are using parts from other companies they are extremely anal about quality.

I have found several cases of this happening on this board, not to mention all the other boat manufactures that are using Indmar engines.

JimN
08-11-2008, 01:01 PM
What kind of filter is on the motor- Pennzoil, or another brand?

jgarner
08-11-2008, 01:02 PM
It is the original Pennzoil.

JimN
08-11-2008, 01:04 PM
Again, it's a warranty issue. Have the dealer handle it.

jgarner
08-11-2008, 01:06 PM
I am to that point Jim. I have spent about 10 hours on my side trying to get the thing off and really tired of working on it.

bigmac
08-11-2008, 01:46 PM
IMHO, it would take a special kind of dolt to cross-thread an oil filter and tighten it enough that the gasket actually seals.

I try to envision someone, anyone, putting on an oil filter and deciding they have to wrench it down to get it to go on fully.....nope...can't see it. Being the charitable soul that I am, I am inclined to doubt that that is what happened.

I do agree though, that this is a problem so far out of the ordinary that I would drop it in the dealer's lap.

Ric
08-11-2008, 01:51 PM
IMHO, it would take a special kind of dolt to cross-thread an oil filter and tighten it enough that the gasket actually seals.

I try to envision someone, anyone, putting on an oil filter and deciding they have to wrench it down to get it to go on fully.....nope...can't see it. Being the charitable soul that I am, I am inclined to doubt that that is what happened.

I do agree though, that this is a problem so far out of the ordinary that I would drop it in the dealer's lap.
what is that lady's line on the movie ruthless people ? "Either this man is a complete moron.... and complete morons are rare....."

JimN
08-11-2008, 02:06 PM
Remember that the filter is installed before the engine goes in the boat, which makes it more possible that way. I just can't remember a time when a filter was on so tightly that it couldn't be removed unless it was in a really awkward position. Threaded on normally, if the threads are intact, it should come off. If the gasket is stuck, the gasket should fail, making the filter come off. If the threads are galled, it's a warranty issue because it happened through no fault of the boat owner and came from the factory that way.

Did it move at all? Maybe just a little and then stopped?

jgarner
08-11-2008, 02:10 PM
To me it felt like the bolts in my adapter tool where bending. I removed the tool and noticed that it was actually the case and filter had not moved at all. I am just nervous about trying anything else. The dealership is closed on Mondays or I would have them up here today.

jgarner
08-11-2008, 02:12 PM
I guess my logic of thinking is that if they come tomorrow and see the threads are not damaged it is obvious I did not do anything to cause any damage. However, if I am more persistant and lets say I do get if off this evening and when I back the filter off it damages the threads on the stud who is to say that I did not cause that. I would almost rather leave it be and let them verify it looks like it should come off and them let them screw it up.

JimN
08-11-2008, 02:15 PM
Post a photo of the tool, with the bolts sticking up.

jgarner
08-11-2008, 02:18 PM
The tool is over at the lake house currently, but it looks almost exactly like the tool in Sodar's post that he referenced to a couple pages back.

jgarner
08-11-2008, 02:25 PM
Very similar to this except the bar I was using was wider and I was able to place 3 bolts instead of two.

Jesus_Freak
08-11-2008, 02:29 PM
IMHO, it would take a special kind of dolt to cross-thread an oil filter and tighten it enough that the gasket actually seals.

:D Hilarious :D

JimN
08-11-2008, 02:45 PM
Never under-estimate the determination of a dolt.

Especially a cross-threaded dolt.:uglyhamme


HEY! You were thinking about the same thing!

jgarner
08-11-2008, 02:48 PM
Just to clairy for everyone reading..... I am NOT the dolt.

JimN
08-11-2008, 02:56 PM
You didn't install the filter, either.

Unless there's a contest or a pot of glue nearby, I don't know why people think it's necessary to tighten oil filters as much as I have seen.

Are yoiu anloe to grab the edge of the filter's base plate with the Channel Locks?

Just for grins, try turning the filter in the opposite direction.

jgarner
08-11-2008, 03:02 PM
I tried to grip the base of the filter with the Channel locks, but the surface is so small, when I start to apply pressure they seem to slip off. Before the canister was completely destroyed and I was using the Channel Locks I did grip filter and go in a back and forth motion hoping that any movement would free it up enough to loosen it.

Sodar
08-11-2008, 03:11 PM
I have no idea why they put these things on so tight from the factory. Seems like some retarded competition or something! :D

Try the things that are listed in my post. The homemade tool is the best idea. Just make sure you use bolts that only extend about 1/2" or so. Anything longer will just bend the bolts and render the tool useless. Also, like Harold said a little lube on the gasket will at least help you eliminate thet from binding up on you. Just make sure you do not harm the mating surface when you are prying at the gasket.

Do your hands look like you got in a fight with a razor blade, yet?

jgarner
08-11-2008, 03:14 PM
Luckily my hands to not resemble that yet. For some reason I though it might be a good idea to put on some leather gloves. Usually, something that makes that much sense does not come to mind until after the fact.

duramaxer
08-11-2008, 07:57 PM
When I did the first oil change on my RPT a few months ago my oil filter seemed to be more snug than I thought one should be as well. I twisted/crushed the filter can as well but I guess I can just be thankful that it isn't the problem that you are having.
Not that this post helps but sure is amazing how may people have run into this kind of problem.
Good luck with the dealer and probably a good idea to let them wreck something instead of yourself.

jgarner
08-11-2008, 09:26 PM
Well, my brother-in-law got the special tool he made up at work to me today and my stubborness took over and decided to give the impact a shot. I got the adapter in the filter and hooked up the impact and gave it a quick tap and then tried to use wrench and adapter/tool to give it a tug. Nothing once again. I placed the adapter/tool back in the filter and tried the impact once again and gave a couple taps.... Nothing. Hit it with the impact again and it broke off two of the three bolts on the adapter/tool. I can now officially say I am out of ideas. The dealer will be at the house tomorrow and I am interested to see what they think.

Chief
08-11-2008, 09:58 PM
Well, my brother-in-law got the special tool he made up at work to me today and my stubborness took over and decided to give the impact a shot. I got the adapter in the filter and hooked up the impact and gave it a quick tap and then tried to use wrench and adapter/tool to give it a tug. Nothing once again. I placed the adapter/tool back in the filter and tried the impact once again and gave a couple taps.... Nothing. Hit it with the impact again and it broke off two of the three bolts on the adapter/tool. I can now officially say I am out of ideas. The dealer will be at the house tomorrow and I am interested to see what they think.

Sounds like the motor may have to be pulled for this one! Keep us posted.

BOATNGUYNE
08-11-2008, 10:05 PM
I have found this on two 2008 models. I found out that whoever installed the filters at Indmar forgot to lube the filter before insalling it !! On a 2008, Its probably best to take to the dealer anyways just to make sure there are no updates to the ECM and V-Dig. It cost alittle bit more but at least you have some documentation that the proper service is being done at an authorized Mastercraft dealer !!

BOATNGUYNE
08-11-2008, 10:15 PM
I forgot.... On the 2008 197 We had to pull the engine, on the X-2 we did not have to !
I would not go any further, if you hurt the threads to point beyond repair the block will have to be replaced.

stuartmcnair
08-11-2008, 10:51 PM
Knowing Rambo...I'm going to take a stab that this oil change is on the house.

jgarner
08-12-2008, 12:33 AM
I forgot.... On the 2008 197 We had to pull the engine, on the X-2 we did not have to !
I would not go any further, if you hurt the threads to point beyond repair the block will have to be replaced.

The threads are not damaged at all. If I thought I were going to damage the threads I would not have continued.

jgarner
08-12-2008, 12:34 AM
Knowing Rambo...I'm going to take a stab that this oil change is on the house.

Oh yeah. The oil change if definately going to be on the house and to think I did not even to to changing the transmission fluid. I think that is going to be on the house to. I wonder what else I can possibly get out of them?

JimN
08-12-2008, 12:51 AM
The threaded piece is an insert that's bolted in place, IIRC. I know it is on my truck, which has a remote oil cooler but if I wanted to remove that, all I would need to do it unbolt it and screw a new filter on.

jgarner
08-12-2008, 12:54 AM
I am fairly certain it is that way on all engines. I just did not want the threads to be scared when the come and check out the boat tomorrow. If that was made into the block the engine manufactures would be replacing a lot of engines in automobiles as well as boats.

Once again, I am very dissappointed in the lack of quality at the Indmar plant. A simple torque controlled gun can eliminate this problem all together.

JimN
08-12-2008, 12:57 AM
"The oil change if definately going to be on the house and to think I did not even to to changing the transmission fluid. I think that is going to be on the house to. I wonder what else I can possibly get out of them?"

You need to contact MC about this. If it came from Indmar this way, trying to get all kinds of free stuff from the dealer is like making a car dealer suffer because one of GM's vendors dropped the ball.

There's a whole list of 25 hour service items that the dealers are supposed to do, and it's not just they way of getting customers to fork over more money. They need to see what has changed since the pre-delivery setup, including doing diagnostics, checking the shaft/engine alignment and making sure everything is still tight.

jgarner
08-12-2008, 01:10 AM
I totally agree Jim. I am going to request that the oil change and transmission fluid change be on the house, but other than that all I want it for it to be fixed correctly. I will probably write a letter to MC once Rambo has handled the issue stating that they need to check into Indmars quality control and with Rambo's reputation I am sure they will handle it in a very professional manner. I will also compliment Rambo, so they know that Rambo is keeping their customers happy.

kev88
08-12-2008, 08:13 AM
Rambo will make it right - no doubt there.

JimN
08-12-2008, 11:07 AM
As far as Indmar having bad QC, I have never seen this problem before and I have literally done a couple of thousand oil changes on boats with GM motors. Before jumping to nay conclusions, I would wait until after the filter comes off. The 'Bu I had the problem with was from the filter and oil not being changed for 3+ years, not Indmar's fault. I can't think of any problems on any boat that was the fault of Indmar's QC. Besides- once a filter goes on, no company is going to check it.

Just out of curiosity, how much space is there between the top edge of the filter and the block, where the gasket meets it? If you have a feeler gauge, you can stack the leaves to add up the total.

Also, there's no need for "A simple torque controlled gun can eliminate this problem all together" when an oil filter is usually installed by hand. Once the gasket makes contact, it only needs another 3/4 turn to be tight enough.

jgarner
08-12-2008, 11:21 AM
I am going to have to disagree with you on the quality aspect Jim. On the couple thousand boats you have performed the oil changes on have they all been the initial oil change? You say this you have never seen this problem before, yet there have been several replies on this thread with people having to destroy an oil filter to remove it on the inital oil change. A did a quick google search and there are plenty of instances of this same thing happening on the first oil change.

Also in a major manufacturing facility all auto makers use a torque controlled gun to install the filters. They start the filter by hand and then use a gun to tighten the remaining. The have to use a gun to ensure the person gets the filter on tight.

ShamrockIV
08-12-2008, 11:25 AM
I am going to have to disagree with you on the quality aspect Jim. On the couple thousand boats you have performed the oil changes on have they all been the initial oil change? You say this you have never seen this problem before, yet there have been several replies on this thread with people having to destroy an oil filter to remove it on the inital oil change. A did a quick google search and there are plenty of instances of this same thing happening on the first oil change.

Also in a major manufacturing facility all auto makers use a torque controlled gun to install the filters. They start the filter by hand and then use a gun to tighten the remaining. The have to use a gun to ensure the person gets the filter on tight.

i would say it is more a concern over carpel tunnel or a time thing than the car people worried about quality!!

JimN
08-12-2008, 11:41 AM
OK, for initial changes it was in the hundreds but I still don't remember seeing this problem. Maybe it's more recent than when I was working at the MC dealerships.

I have ripped up a few gaskets because they were stuck, though. That's what I meant by "failing". That would indicate that the gasket was the only thing that was stuck. If the filter was cross-threaded, it should still come off, albeit with more effort.

"Also in a major manufacturing facility all auto makers use a torque controlled gun to install the filters"

That may be but they're also making hundreds of thousands of motors, not thousands. Rather than dump on Indmar for this when we have seen a small number of stuck oil filters, we should make a count and contact them to find out if they have had more problems than what have been stated here. There are many ways to remove a filter and only a few are the right way, with the right tool. Strap-type filter wrenches crush the sides and the kind that fits over the end are less destructive. Without having been there when the filters were damaged, it's impossible to say what caused this. Maybe the paint was still tacky when the filters went on but that should have just damaged the gaskets.

djhuff
08-12-2008, 11:53 AM
Count me as one whose filter was too tight for the first change. I got it off without destroying it, but it took MUCH more effort than it should have, and the sides did get crushed a little. I slid the wrench up by the rim to get the leverage needed to bust it loose.

The service mgr at my dealership said he noticed they were usually pretty tight on the first change, nothing like this though. We just chalked it up to the fact that they were installed so that there would be no chance down the line of it being too loose.

jgarner
08-14-2008, 12:12 AM
Well Rambo picked up the boat yesterday around 3pm and they had it back to the house in less than 24 hours. They called me this morning around 11:30 and they had it ready. They said that they had to use the impact and some other tools to get the filter to come off. They went ahead and complete the 29 hour service and they brought the boat back. I am very impressed when their service completed satisfied with the results.

Sodar
08-14-2008, 12:20 AM
Does your old filter look like this?
39005

39004

jgarner
08-14-2008, 12:25 AM
Almost exactly the same.

JimN
08-14-2008, 12:26 AM
Any indication as to why it was so hard to remove?

jgarner
08-14-2008, 12:28 AM
I did not get to talk to the tech that removed it. When I go back to the dealership I would like to talk to him and get this thoughts on why it was so hard to remove.

Sodar
08-14-2008, 12:30 AM
Any indication as to why it was so hard to remove?

Because the factory cranks them on too tight at the factory.

I know that you have worked on a lot of boats and I am not trying to step on toes, but the 4 dealerships I spoke to when trying to get mine off said that 3 in 5 boats that come in for their first oil change have this problem. I would really like EngineNut to comment as to why they crank them on so ridiculously tight. :confused:

JimN
08-14-2008, 12:50 AM
Obviously, some things have changed since I worked for a MC dealer and even though they are still using the same filters, I didn't see any that were this tight. If they are using a tool with a specific torque setting, it clearly needs to be decreased. The rule of thumb, and the instructions on the box usually calls for hte gasket to make contact and then it goes 3/4 of a turn tighter. On my vehicles, I may go a full turn but I can get to it easily when I do the change, so it's not a problem.

It sounds like the plate actually deformed and the inner part of the thread dug in and bottomed out. The filter is stamped and the threaded tube is harder, so that won the battle.

Sodar
08-14-2008, 01:06 AM
Exactly! I never go more then hand tight and I have never seen a leak.

I would be interested to know the reason for cranking them on so tight.

JimN
08-14-2008, 01:33 AM
A buck says that the official oil filter installer's name is Mongo.