PDA

View Full Version : Carburetor Opinions Needed


DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 01:37 AM
I have a 1992 Prostar 190 that is stock, as far as I know. It ran last year a couple times, but hasn't been run since last summer. A year ago I had the carb adjusted, but the guy said I would probably need a new carb within a year. The below pictures are of my carb as of today. You can see it has a lot of corrosion/oxidation on it.

Here are my options:
1. Buy a new carb and replace it
2. Try to find a used carb and replace it.
3. Find a place to "rebuild" it
4. Try a rebuild kit myself (I've never done it but have some mechanical ability.)
5. ??

erkoehler
04-21-2005, 01:41 AM
There are alot of different threads on carbs right now, read up on some of them first.

Also, how about some pics of the whole boat? :confused:

H20skeefreek
04-21-2005, 04:51 AM
It does look pretty nasty, but I don't see why it couldn't be cleaned up, but what do I know, my boat has been down off and on since December because of carb issues.

do you boat in Saltwater? I wouldn't imagine so in Arizona. why is it so corroded?

jsonova99
04-21-2005, 06:18 AM
I have a 1992 Prostar 190 that is stock, as far as I know. It ran last year a couple times, but hasn't been run since last summer. A year ago I had the carb adjusted, but the guy said I would probably need a new carb within a year. The below pictures are of my carb as of today. You can see it has a lot of corrosion/oxidation on it.

Here are my options:
1. Buy a new carb and replace it
2. Try to find a used carb and replace it.
3. Find a place to "rebuild" it
4. Try a rebuild kit myself (I've never done it but have some mechanical ability.)
5. ??

If you have the slightest bit of mechanical ability, rebuild it yourself. I just rebuilt my 4160 a few weeks ago. First time I had ever attempted a "real" carburetor (did an atv and a 2HP outboard once). Easy job, hardest part is getting the old gaskets off of the various pieces. Try skidim.com, they have rebuild kits. Just pull the numbers off of the air horn and either match them up with the descriptions they on the site have or call them up and they'll take care of you. For $50 and a weekend of labor it's worth it. Good learning experience too in my opinion. Just be very anal with cleaning and removing gaskets. Also, do the carb one section at a time so that you don't get pieces mixed up. In other words, take the primary bowl off, clean it up replace the needle re-assemble it and set it aside. Do the same with each major piece that comes off. That's the best advice that I can give. I also found a good gasket remover that came in a spray can at Advance Auto for like $3. Just make sure you use a rubber gloves and do it in a well-ventilated area.

LakeLottawatta
04-21-2005, 07:55 AM
Get a rebuild kit and do it yourself!
Tips: Get the carb good and clean. Best way to do that is go to a good local independent autoparts store and ask for "Berryman's Chem-dip" It comes in a gallon can and has a parts backet in it. Disassemble the carb, put the parts in the basket, dip them for 30 minutes, the old gaskets, corrosion, varnish, etc. dissolve. blow the parts off with some compressed air, and reassemble with your new kit.
Good Luck

6ballsisall
04-21-2005, 08:00 AM
Agree with the rest it is probably rebuildable. Looking at the pics it sure is corroded on the outside. That shouldn't affect performance as long as the inside doesn't look the same. When you have it tore apart get your dremel out with a brush bit and give er heck!

jsonova99
04-21-2005, 08:03 AM
Get a rebuild kit and do it yourself!
Tips: Get the carb good and clean. Best way to do that is go to a good local independent autoparts store and ask for "Berryman's Chem-dip" It comes in a gallon can and has a parts backet in it. Disassemble the carb, put the parts in the basket, dip them for 30 minutes, the old gaskets, corrosion, varnish, etc. dissolve. blow the parts off with some compressed air, and reassemble with your new kit.
Good Luck

I'll have to try some of that stuff. I had to spray and scrape all of the damn gaskets off. I used denatured alcohol to clean the parts which worked out well. The carb seems to be running a lot better than before.

wesgardner
04-21-2005, 08:20 AM
Hey DA,

That looks like a 4150 dual pump. Go to Holley's web site for some exploded views, skiDIM is a good source for parts (and knowledge) as others have posted. The "List" number on a Holley carb is important - it's a 4-digit number stamped on the air horn, the lower number is when it was built. From the list # you can also get the cfm of th carb.

Hope this helps

Wes

jsonova99
04-21-2005, 08:35 AM
Hey DA,

That looks like a 4150 dual pump. Go to Holley's web site for some exploded views, skiDIM is a good source for parts (and knowledge) as others have posted. The "List" number on a Holley carb is important - it's a 4-digit number stamped on the air horn, the lower number is when it was built. From the list # you can also get the cfm of th carb.

Hope this helps

Wes

Isn't that the one that some people were complaining about? Hot stalls, etc. If that is the case, then maybe he's better off jsut buying a 4160.

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 09:37 AM
I have just been on this website for a week or so, and I am AMAZED at how many responses I got in such a short period of time. I put the post up last night before bed, and here I am at 6:30a ready a whole list of responses! THANKS EVERYONE.

Now I will try to answer some of your questions and comments.

H2OSkeeFreek: It has never been in salt water. How it ends up getting corroded is that it sits outside, not in a garage. I have a cover on the boat, but during the winter I usually put a plastic tarp over the boat to keep most of the rain out. (It does rain in AZ, ocassionally!) Once the moisture is in the air, the tarp ends up acting like a green house and the moisture condensates in the engine compartment. That is why I think most of it is oxidation, rather than corrosion.

erkoehler: I've read every thread on the board I could find out carburetors. That is what gave me hope that I wouldn't have to buy a new one and spend the $500. I just didn't have the confidence, and that is why I requested everyones opinions. I'll try to post some pics of the whole boat later.

jsonova99: You are my inspiration. I have read your posts on your carb rebuild. I really felt your pain trying to get the gaskets off. I am going to try and find the stuff LakeLottawatta recommended. Sounds like the easiest way to go. I will keep all your comments in mind though as I progress.

jrandol: The only parts that seem oxidized on the inside is the airhorn and the flap covering the airhorn, and I think it is just on the top. The two vent tubes are also pretty gone, but I think I can replace those. Since it is mostly on the outside, I think it can be rebuilt.

wesgardner: Thanks for the info on going to the Holly website. I have the Indmar manual which included the information on the carb. It took me a while to find the numbers since they were under the oxidation. I had to use an SOS pad and a toothbrush to read them.

Everyone: Thanks for your quick replys. I am going to research my carb a little more, then probably get a rebuild kit from skidim.com. I got an impeller and a belt from them and they are great to deal with. When I get to it, I'll start another thread with my adventures in rebuilding a carb. Stay tuned...

ps - How do you post pictures so they show up in the message, and not just a link to the pictures?

jsonova99
04-21-2005, 09:59 AM
I've never been anyone's inspiration, I'm honored :uglyhamme

To post pics, just scroll down on the window that you write messages on and there is a manage attachements button. Click that and it lets you browse for the file. Sometimes you have to play with the size of the picture though.

You'll be fine with the rebuild, the kits come with instructions pretty straightforward. The choke gets a little hairy, pay attention to how it comes off and how the inside parts are before you take a it apart.

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 10:08 AM
Hey DA,

That looks like a 4150 dual pump. Go to Holley's web site for some exploded views, skiDIM is a good source for parts (and knowledge) as others have posted. The "List" number on a Holley carb is important - it's a 4-digit number stamped on the air horn, the lower number is when it was built. From the list # you can also get the cfm of th carb.

Hope this helps

Wes

I checked the Holley website and it is a model 4150. Thanks for the information.

FrankSchwab
04-21-2005, 10:20 AM
Hey DA -
Where do you boat? We're going out to Saguaro this afternoon for our first trip of the year - we're out there every thursday afternoon, rain or shine, as long as the water temp is above 70.

/frank

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 11:06 AM
Hey Frank -

I usually go to Lake Pleasant. I live in the NW valley, and Saguaro is on the other side for me. I used to go every Wed. afternoon with my wife and friends, and then I had kids. Now that our 3rd is out and we are done, we are ready to get back on the water. The boat has been the neglected 4th child. I'm trying to give it the attention it needs now that my other 3 are ready to go to the lake.

Doug

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 11:10 AM
Are you sure it's a 4150? If it's all stock, might it be a 4010. If it is a 4150, that is currently what Indmar is using on its carbureted engines. A reubuild would probably be fine. If it's a 4010 (stock on my 93 prostar), my personal experience with that carb have been that this carb is not desireable on a ski boat and that it should be replaced. I went with a Holley 4160 and was pleased with the results. I have no experience with other brands, but other brands have been recommended as superior to the Holley. I have no reason to disagree with that assessment, but can only tell you that my 4160 has been trouble free so far and was standard equipment on MC's with the 351W for years.

Hunterb
04-21-2005, 01:40 PM
I would think that carb is fixable. I just rebuilt mine and while doing so I found the attached article. It was quite helpful.

Good luck !!!

Bruce

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/1999/12/holley/index.shtml

FrankSchwab
04-21-2005, 02:01 PM
Hey Doug -
Actually, I live at Thunderbird/Central, so Lake Pleasant's a lot closer for me also. Unfortunately, I don't find it very pleasant.

Especially this year - went out a couple of months ago, and boy was it covered with crap! Borrowed a friend's boat a number of years ago, and hit a submerged bush that was attached to the top of a submerged hill. And I thought I was in the middle of a channel!.

Different friend used to fly a light plane out of Deer Valley airport. Said after flying over the lake one day that he'd never go out there in his boat - something about all the barely submerged rolling (formerly) hills.

Anyway, good skiing to you; it's that time of the year.

/frank

jclose8
04-21-2005, 02:07 PM
If you want a quick, easy, foolproof fix, check this out:

Carbsonly website (http://www.carbsonly.com/index/marine.htm)

The prices are good. They send you a rebuilt carb, you send them your old one, you bolt the rebuilt one on. Done.

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 02:30 PM
Hey Doug -
Actually, I live at Thunderbird/Central, so Lake Pleasant's a lot closer for me also. Unfortunately, I don't find it very pleasant.

Especially this year - went out a couple of months ago, and boy was it covered with crap! Borrowed a friend's boat a number of years ago, and hit a submerged bush that was attached to the top of a submerged hill. And I thought I was in the middle of a channel!.

Different friend used to fly a light plane out of Deer Valley airport. Said after flying over the lake one day that he'd never go out there in his boat - something about all the barely submerged rolling (formerly) hills.

Anyway, good skiing to you; it's that time of the year.

/frank

I know what you mean Frank. I have been up in a plane out of DV Airport and went over the lake. Luckily I have been going there since before the new dam, so I am pretty familiar with the lake and know where to go and not to go most times of the year.

So far I've been lucky. I just hate dragging my boat all over the valley.

Good skiing.
Doug

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 02:32 PM
Are you sure it's a 4150? If it's all stock, might it be a 4010. If it is a 4150, that is currently what Indmar is using on its carbureted engines. A reubuild would probably be fine. If it's a 4010 (stock on my 93 prostar), my personal experience with that carb have been that this carb is not desireable on a ski boat and that it should be replaced. I went with a Holley 4160 and was pleased with the results. I have no experience with other brands, but other brands have been recommended as superior to the Holley. I have no reason to disagree with that assessment, but can only tell you that my 4160 has been trouble free so far and was standard equipment on MC's with the 351W for years.

It is a Fishbowl 4150. I sent the pictures to skidim.com and Richard got back to me right away. He confirmed the model and I was able to give him the numbers off the carb to confirm the model. They were really helpful. I can't say that enough.

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 02:33 PM
I would think that carb is fixable. I just rebuilt mine and while doing so I found the attached article. It was quite helpful.

Good luck !!!

Bruce

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/1999/12/holley/index.shtml

Thanks for the article. I have been reading up as much as possible on this. I have a friend at work that has rebuilt a few carbs, so he is going to be my backup in case I get in trouble. I'm going to print the article and keep it next to me while I work on it.

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 02:45 PM
I just bought the rebuild kit from skidim.com with standard shipping. I am in zone 4, so I won't get the kit until mid-next week. I think I have my project for the following weekend. Stay tuned...

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 02:51 PM
With a 4150, I think the rebuild is a good way to go. Just be glad you don't have the stock carb (assuming 351 HO).

wesgardner
04-21-2005, 03:26 PM
Hey DA,

You may want to start shooting Boeshield T-9 or WD-40 or sim. on some of those smaller bolts/screws right now and get that stuff workin'....

Have a great weekend.

Wes

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 03:39 PM
Hey DA,

You may want to start shooting Boeshield T-9 or WD-40 or sim. on some of those smaller bolts/screws right now and get that stuff workin'....

Have a great weekend.

Wes

Thanks for the heads up. My friend at work told me to watch out for breaking off the screws. Didn't think about hitting it now with the WD-40 to get them prepped. I'll do it this weekend. I am going to do the impeller and belt this weekend before the carb next weekend.

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 04:12 PM
For stubborn screws and bolts, PB Blaster works wonders as well.

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 05:12 PM
For stubborn screws and bolts, PB Blaster works wonders as well.

What is PB Blaster and where can you get it?

Lance
04-21-2005, 05:26 PM
Are you sure that is a 4150? I am not a carb expert but I thought the only real difference between the 4160 and the 4150 was that the metering block / plate on the 4160 was a lower end version than that found in a 4150 (something about not being able to make fine tune adjustments) otherwise they were the same carburetor (well of course there are several variations of the main theme in terms of single vs double accelerator pump, mechanical vs. vacuum actuated secondaries, manual vs. auto choke, side vs rear mounted floats, etc.). I thought both the 4150 and 4160 had their bowl covers screwed on from the front and back rather than having a single top plate which is what I think I see in the pictures you posted.

On the holley site I found this picture:

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/f4010.html

which to me looks alot like the pictures you posted. Here is the 4150:

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechServ/TechInfo/f4150-60.html

which shows the fuel bowls that are attached with screws from the front (primary bowl) and back (for secondaries).

As others have said, the 4150 was not a standard Indmar carb during that era. If it is a 4010 (which was used for a couple of years there) you might want to upgrade as there were reportedly a lot of problems with it (although i haven't experienced them since my '87 as the 4160). The story I have heard is that other boat manufactures actually recalled the carb because they had so many problems. Mastercraft buried their head instead.

My vote would be to rebuild if you really have a 4150 and defer to others guidance if it is the 4010.

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 06:02 PM
With regard to MCs, the 4160s used were single feed carbs. The 4010s were dual feed carbs (as were the 4150s). Both the 4010 and the 4150 are "fishbowl" style carbs.

Here's a handy link about Holley Marine Carbs.

Holley Marine Carbs (http://www.boatsunlimitedny.com/tt_marinecarb.php?D4=53218058b891bd3045f83af21d0f8 31e)

Here's a handy link about identifying Holley Carbs by their part numbers. The marine carbs are a bit down the page.

Holley Carbs by Part Number (http://www.mortec.com/carbs.htm)

DAinAZ
04-21-2005, 06:30 PM
From Lance's e-mail I'm starting to think that I have a 4010. I think I am still good though on the rebuild kit I bought from skidim.com.

http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1116

It shows that it is for both 4010 and 4150. As the link shows, it is for List #R50483, which is what is on my carb. On the airhorn are the following numbers as shown:

F1JL-9510-EA
R50483
0302#

The links for Holley don't have any of these numbers listed. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place or need to look on the other side.

Now I am still confused, but sure that I got the right rebuild kit.

Lance
04-21-2005, 07:25 PM
What does the term 'fishbowl' refer to? The skidim site does seem confusing in that they show a single rebuild kit for either the 4150 or 4010 and then show a picture of a carburetor with float bowls that attach from the front and rear. This would tell me that it is a 4150. The picture on skidim is definitely of a carburetor that is different than either one pictured in the original post on this thread and different than the drawing of the 4010 diagram since in these the float bowl cover is attached with screwes aligned vertically rather than horizontally.

It seems odd to me that a single rebuild kit would contain gaskets for both types of bowl covers.

Given that in all other literature I have seen the 4150 and 4160 are considered to be close cousins I am surprised that the rebuild kit isn't for a 4150 / 4160.

Now I am confused.

To me it still looks like a 4010 but I am not as confident as when I originally posted given the information on the skidim site since most say they are pretty good..

Lance

Lance
04-21-2005, 07:30 PM
DAinAZ, with regard to not finding the numbers you reference in a Holley manual / diagram don't be surprised as that number uniquely identifies the various configuration elements that I and others have refered to with regard to number of accelerator pumps, types of floats, marine vs. standard, etc. They take the basic carburetor and can configure it hundreds of different ways using various combinations of these choices.

The only place I have ever found a match between those numbers on the carburetor is in the specific engine manual that was published by Ford Power Products that described the maintenance of the marinized engine.

Lance

DAinAZ
04-22-2005, 12:41 AM
Lance - Regardless of everything, I'm becoming more confident that it is a 4010 due to the Holley exploded diagram. My carb definitely has the top plate that opens to everything else. The bowls do not attach on the ends like the 4150/4160 diagram shows.

When I got home I looked around and didn't find any other numbers on the carb. I did put a lot of penetrant on all the screws/bolts in hope that they will come loose next weekend when I rebuild the carb. I'll put more on this weekend when I do the impeller and belt.

Before this thread gets cold, I want to thank everyone that contributed to it. All the help has been great and all the additional links to information has been helpful.

THANKS!!!

erkoehler
04-22-2005, 12:42 AM
:D No problem, glad I could be of so much help!

east tx skier
04-22-2005, 11:34 AM
As someone who paid to have a Holley 4010 professionally rebuilt, if I had it to do over again, I'd have saved the $50 on the rebuild kit and the money I spent to have it rebuilt and just buy a rebuilt 4160 or other carb. To us, even rebuilt, that 4010 was nothing but trouble. Indmar/MC should've recalled every last one of them like PCM/CC did.

And with all that said, there are people on here who will tell you their 4010s have been trouble free. You just won't here me telling you to keep it.

After $50 for a rebuild kit, $200 for the rebuild, $429 for the new 4160, $12 for the new fuel line, and $75 to have it put on, my :twocents: is all I have left. I must really love my MC boat. See my signature.

Lance
04-22-2005, 04:09 PM
EastTxSkier isn't the only one on this forum that has had problems with the 4010. There are probably others that haven't had any problems. If it were me I would probably go ahead with the rebuild if this is something you are going to tackle on your own as the experience you gain might very well be worth $50 even if you end up buying a new carburetor in the end. As Doug said though, if you have to have this done by a professional then you might save the money and buy a 4160.

Not knowing much about your skills other than you describing that you have some mechanical abilities I would suggest buying a good Chilton type book that is dedicated to Holley rebuilds and go for it. I had to do that with my 4160 after it sat for a couple of years with little use. I read a lot (this was before the internet) and then patiently worked through it and had no problems with the rebuild and it solved all of the 'driveability' issues I was dealing with at the time. I also gained a lot of experience / knowledge about carburetors in the process. Kinda cool.

Anyway... I probably would try a rebuild since you have the kit on the way but then don't sink any more money in it and switch to the 4160.

Lance

east tx skier
04-22-2005, 04:56 PM
I agree. If you're going to do it yourself, probably worth $50.

This might help you out.

Rebuilding a Holley Carb (http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/howto/45798/)

scott88prostar
04-22-2005, 04:59 PM
Its a 4010....book says the rebuild kit is 703-53

east tx skier
04-22-2005, 05:03 PM
Quick question. Why did you have the carb adjusted last year? Do a search for "4010." If your problems were of the "hot stall" and subsequent poor idle variety, I'm of the opinion, albeit mechanically uninclined, that a rebuild won't fix that problem. If you're having hesitation with accelleration, but no hot stalls, go ahead and give the rebuild a try.

When I took the 4010 to my local tournament inboard dealer, the mechanic told me he thought it was a waste of money to rebuild this carb. I wish I had listened to him.

DAinAZ
04-23-2005, 09:50 AM
The main problem I have had with the carb is hesitation with accelleration. I have never had hot stall problems. This is the carb I have had on the boat for the 8 years I have owned it. I had it adjusted last year because I hardly used the boat that year and I think the carb just got a little gummed up and needed to be adjusted to get it idling properly. Even after that adjustment, I still had the hesitation on accelleartion. Since I then hardly used it again last year, and the outside is so oxidized, I decided to rebuild it to take care of my problems and get it good so I won't be having a boat that works "OK" all year. I'm hoping to use it more this year, so I want it to be trouble free.

wesgardner
04-23-2005, 08:54 PM
Hey DA,

Sorry for the mis-ID on your carb, it did look alot like mine except the fact that the bowls on mine DO fasten from the ends whereas yours is all one top plate....ooops!

Here's mine...


Wes

TCrate
04-24-2005, 12:49 AM
DA, Lance hit the nail on the head. I have a '92 Prostar, with the same carb. It is a 4010, I had to rebuild last year but after I tore it all apart I realized all I had wrong with it was the power pump, which is a one little diaphragm that had a leak. Would rev up and down at idle.

I am one of the lucky ones. I have had no problems up to now with this carb.(750 hours).

Rebuild it. Dip it and clean the corrosion. Reassemble. DO NOT GET ANY CARB CLEANER on the o-rings and gaskets. At that point all you have to do is reset the idle mixture screws and set the floats if they need it.

Has the carb given you problems up to now? If not rebuild and go. I checked prices for rebuilds and I was getting prices from $250-$300.

Good Luck.

By the way, I have a 4160 that I will sell you if interested.

TC

erkoehler
04-24-2005, 02:52 AM
:D May not solve your problem, but:

Sell the boat and buy a new one!

PegLeg
04-25-2005, 09:31 AM
I have a 4160 brand new remanufactured, actually have 2, I was having the same problems out of my 4010, so I ordered a remanufactured 4160 but in the mean time I found a brand new 4160(80319-1) on Ebay for half the price of the rebuilt one so I bought both because the rebuilt had already been shipped. So I need to cut my losses for $200 plus shipping you get a new remanufactured 4160 still in the box.

east tx skier
04-25-2005, 10:40 AM
The main problem I have had with the carb is hesitation with accelleration. I have never had hot stall problems. This is the carb I have had on the boat for the 8 years I have owned it. I had it adjusted last year because I hardly used the boat that year and I think the carb just got a little gummed up and needed to be adjusted to get it idling properly. Even after that adjustment, I still had the hesitation on accelleartion. Since I then hardly used it again last year, and the outside is so oxidized, I decided to rebuild it to take care of my problems and get it good so I won't be having a boat that works "OK" all year. I'm hoping to use it more this year, so I want it to be trouble free.

I had that problem with the 4010 as well. It seemed to disappear after a rebuild, but I seem to remember it coming up a time or two. If you're not having the hot stall issues, go for the rebuild. Good luck!

DAinAZ
06-02-2005, 01:57 AM
OK, so I didn't follow everyones suggestions to switch to a 4160 carb. I kept my old one and had it rebuilt. I was going to do it myself but my wife and 3 young boys made me decide that I wouldn't have time enough in one sitting to get it done. So I took the kit I bought from Skidim and gave it to the rebuild guy, so he took that off the price. It was still expensive though, so I hope it runs good.

I got it on the boat the other day and got it started up and it ran a little fast until we adjusted the air and fuel mixture a little bit. Now it idles smooth and accellerates without any hesitation. That was just on the trailer, so I have to see how it does in the water. I know everyone talks about the hot stalls with my carb, but I live in AZ, where it is hot to start with, and have never had that problem, so I didn't want to abandon a good thing without reason.

Hopefully I'll get out on the water this weekend and I'll let you know how it goes.