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LakePirate
04-20-2005, 06:04 PM
I have come to the mountain to sample the infinite wisdom of the Team Talk Board.

OK here is the situation

I have a lake house on a lake in Alabama (great skiing not too many people have found it yet) and I have discovered a slalom course hidden back in a creek (actually a fisherman buddy of mine told me about it). I don’t want to be out there tearing it up one day (by tearing it up I am referring to my body) and the owner/care taker of the course ride up and become agitated.

What do you wise individuals recommend for a) finding out who takes care of it and b) getting permission to use it?

I would have no problem helping with maintenance on the course

At one time I was going to put my contact information in a Ziploc bag and tie it to one of the buoys, however I don’t know they would get it.

Any thoughts?

Ric
04-20-2005, 06:09 PM
My initial reaction would be to ski it and leave it better than you found it each time. (That's kinda how we handled the age old local course near my house)
If you were to drop a course into public water, you probably would be prepared for others to use it. Knowing that the yahoos, I/o's and jetskis would do far more damage than some good consciencous (sp) skiers.

LakePirate
04-20-2005, 06:15 PM
The I/Os and "smokers" are what ended the course at the lake near my house. The thing about it is that the course is so far off of the beaten path that you have to know it's there to find it. Remember this is Alabama we are talking about. I don't want to wind up on the wrong end of a 12 gauge.

Ric
04-20-2005, 06:19 PM
The I/Os and "smokers" are what ended the course at the lake near my house. The thing about it is that the course is so far off of the beaten path that you have to know it's there to find it. Remember this is Alabama we are talking about. I don't want to wind up on the wrong end of a 12 gauge.
true, you may want to carry a 10 gage along to be sure.

Mag_Red
04-20-2005, 06:23 PM
I like the zip-lock idea. If he's any good, he should be able to snatch it as he's doing his first set. :popcorn:

east tx skier
04-20-2005, 06:30 PM
Hey, public lake, public course. Well, thats a start anyway. That's why we pull our buoys when we're not there to ski it. But it's right off our dock, so we can see it from the window (so we will leave it in over the weekend). But when we head home, out comes the course.

I guess you can see what I'm getting at. I have mixed feelings on this. Part of me says, if he leaves it out, he's got to expect that people will use it. If you do, Ric's suggestion that you always leave it better than you found it is a good one. To me, that means that you keep a couple of orange overton's turnballs, some shock cords, and a dive mask in your boat. Otherwise, you'll be leaving a different note.

I don't leave mine out because (a) I don't trust people that use it to pay for what they break (not that there's ever any other water skiers or jet skis anywhere near our cove, and (b) I don't want the liability, if any, if somebody gets hurt.

If I were in your shoes, I'd start by leaving a note somewhere conspicuous where the owner would find it. In that note, I'd tell him that I was an avid skier with a tournament inboard, and offer up my boat, driving services, and gas money to him in addition to helping him with course maintenance/buoy replacement if he would be so kind to grant me permission to ski it when I wanted to.

It doesn't sound like you just want to ski it once. It sounds like you want to ski it a lot. If you ski it a lot, eventually, the owner's going to show up. Is it easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission? Well, that's the question. It's more difficult for you, the owner of the "World Record Ski Boat," to plead ignorance about what the course is and how it got there than it is for the Wally on the jet ski.

As someone who just set up a permenant course with removeable buoys, I can tell you that it is not an inexpensive undertaking. I'd start by leaving a note. Inquire at the local marina. Put up a big sign on the bank asking about it. Just my $.02.

east tx skier
04-20-2005, 06:31 PM
I like the zip-lock idea. If he's any good, he should be able to snatch it as he's doing his first set. :popcorn:

Now that's funny! 8p

SteveO
04-20-2005, 06:33 PM
I'd bet he (or she) would be happy to see another skier using for it's intended purpose. Use it in good health.

André
04-20-2005, 06:34 PM
Ask the lake side residents or the marina(assuming there is both).
The Ziploc idea isn't a bad one either.I know that i like it a lot when peoples come to see me for using my course.Anyway you will surely meet the owner during the summer.

erkoehler
04-20-2005, 06:42 PM
I wouldn't post a sign anywhere, that will attract more yahoo's. :mad:

LakePirate
04-20-2005, 06:48 PM
Well the Marina is a bust, there is only one on the lake and it is about 45 minutes by boat to get to it. There are no houses up in this cove/creek to ask those guys. The lake is not very old, about 20 years.

I think I will put a note on it this weekend. Maybe make sure the balls are still out there by going around them a time or two.

You guys that have a course on the public lakes you live on, how hard was it to get approval from the power company/corp of engineers?

rodltg2
04-20-2005, 06:52 PM
just wait until you see someone skiing it, then ask.

André
04-20-2005, 06:54 PM
Never even ask any permission for my course.I just drop it there,that's it.
Our lake is very small,about 2.5 miles long by 1200 feet wide.But the last mile of it is where the paper mill company start and there's no housing at all.Nobody ever complain about it.
Knock on wood...

LakePirate
04-20-2005, 07:00 PM
That has to smell great
Paper Mills are the best :D

DanC
04-20-2005, 07:08 PM
Doug's advice is sound.
I regularly poached on other club courses before I became a member of one. Always carry a couple of extra buoys. When you first arrive at the course, check for loose buoys in the weeds and retrieve them, hook up new buoys. When a new boat approaches, immediately stop and talk to them. Most of the time they also are poachers and you can bluff them that you are a course member (don't really recommend this but it is pretty funny when it happens). If it is the owner/member, always ask "if no one else is using it, would you mind....." Showing the course owner that you retrieved their slimmy, grimmy buoy and put in a new one will be evidence that you are a good guy. :toast:
Funny how this has gone in a circle. In the 80's, if you owned an inboard, you were "in" and would be welcome at any course/club. Then with the proliferation of inexpensive inboards, many clubs became very protective and exclusive. Now with the problems with PWCs and wakeboard boats, most clubs are happy to have some more "defenders" around their course when they are not there.

André
04-20-2005, 07:14 PM
The mill is actually about 8 miles from the lake and was built in 87 and is one of the cleanest in the world.You can actually smell it from my place only one or two days a year.I wouldn't have move it full time here otherwise but i know what you mean as i sometimes do jobs in other very old in the middle of the town paper mill.

Ric
04-20-2005, 07:14 PM
I think I will put a note on it this weekend. Maybe make sure the balls are still out there by going around them a time or two.

I'm thinking sink a temp anchor with an overtons ball with the note on it in the middle of the gates where he has to move it and then he'll see the note and certainly recognize turnbouy orange

Larryp
04-20-2005, 07:47 PM
Does anyone in DFW have a course on a lake, other than private, such as the one's on the Trinity.

jimmer2880
04-20-2005, 08:14 PM
I'm thinking sink a temp anchor with an overtons ball with the note on it in the middle of the gates where he has to move it and then he'll see the note and certainly recognize turnbouy orange

I'm with Ric on this one. Except, I'd be poaching it the times when I was there to "check on my note".

I know that I'm always open for new members into our club. Since - like others have said - the more people using it the proper way, the less chance it'll get used in the improper way.

But - then again, we take ours out after each session - even if we ski 2 sessions a day.

jimmer2880
04-20-2005, 08:15 PM
I'm with Ric on this one. Except, I'd be poaching it the times when I was there to "check on my note".

I know that I'm always open for new members into our club. Since - like others have said - the more people using it the proper way, the less chance it'll get used in the improper way.

But - then again, we take ours out after each session - even if we ski 2 sessions a day.

Speaking of which - does anyone want to join? We're in MD, on the Potomac - above Dam 4

Ric
04-20-2005, 09:01 PM
The more I think about it, the best way to find out who owns it is to take an I/O to the site with a tube and start raisin' hell.
You're bound to meet the owner that way!!!!!!!!!

USC8791
04-20-2005, 09:18 PM
While the water is still relatively cool, leave a beer attached to the bouy with the note.

Leroy
04-20-2005, 09:31 PM
Public lake with no name on the course, I would use it with the normal rules of be able to fix anything you break, if the owner shows up, thank him and offer to help in anyway with the course. Ask around someone has got to know who has the course.


If I found a F1, my size, washed up on the shore with algae on it, would I leave it there or would I take it, post found signs at local marina and clean it up and use it until someone called.....guess you know what I would do.

John B
04-20-2005, 09:45 PM
I set my course on a public lake and it is a public course.
That the way it is and I have no say in it.
If some one is using it when I get there I have to wait for my rotation to use it.
As far as approval from the MWD to put the course in.
I had to jump though hoops. There is a article in the last issues of Waterski Mag.
http://www.waterskimag.com/article.jsp?ID=36319

erkoehler
04-20-2005, 10:55 PM
Good luck with the course, and keep up informed!

6balls
04-20-2005, 11:15 PM
Ski It! Love It! Maintain It! Any A$$MUNCH who puts a course in a public lake and thinks they "own" it is gonna be in for a big surprise. That's the best way to get the thing banned.

When the day comes that you meet the "owner" thank him for putting it in and let him know it was you that has been taking care of it with him.

One tip on repairs - FIX IT RIGHT!

bradamerry
04-20-2005, 11:27 PM
Farmer and I ran into this question at Greeson last year. We skied it and still will ski it. Guy was so nice that he would sit back and watch us before asking if we minded him taking a pass or two!!! Said he was happy to see others sking.

Leroy
04-20-2005, 11:54 PM
That would be clear ducktape! ;)

One tip on repairs - FIX IT RIGHT!

erkoehler
04-21-2005, 01:17 AM
And it MUST be the easy tear style.

LakePirate
04-21-2005, 10:19 AM
I read that article in waterski mag and had hoped that was a worst case kind of thing.

Thanks for the advice, I guess it's off to Overton's to buy some buoys

wiltok
04-21-2005, 11:32 AM
Here is my take - if you are asking, then you are uncomfortable using it without permission (I would be too). So, will you really enjoy yourself always "looking over your shoulder" for the owner? I would use it - then leave a couple of free buoys with a note - "Thanks for the use of the course. I am an avid skier who respects your property and time taken to maintain this course. I had a couple of extra buoys laying around - thought I would leave them for you. If you wouldn't mind - I would appreciate if you would let me use it on occasion. In return, I would be happy to do my part to help you maintain it or at least leave it the same condition that I found it. Thanks!" Even a total jerk would have a hard time saying no after you gave him something for free. It would highlight your sincerity and desire to do your part. But that's just how I would do it......

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 11:40 AM
Well the Marina is a bust, there is only one on the lake and it is about 45 minutes by boat to get to it. There are no houses up in this cove/creek to ask those guys. The lake is not very old, about 20 years.

I think I will put a note on it this weekend. Maybe make sure the balls are still out there by going around them a time or two.

You guys that have a course on the public lakes you live on, how hard was it to get approval from the power company/corp of engineers?

Approval? :purplaugh The way it's been explained to me (specific to this lake), if you ask for permission, they're going to have to create forms for you to fill out and they don't like to have to do that. Technically, you're supposed to get approval to build boat docks. We've only heard of one guy asking. It was a huge mess. You have to understand that there are duck blinds all over this lake and nobody asked if they could put them up. Sort of a don't ask/don't tell policy for water recreation.

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 11:42 AM
just wait until you see someone skiing it, then ask.


Might I suggest you "stake out" the lobby a la Seinfeld and Costanza.

Anybody remember the name of that law firm? Something, something Oppenheimer, Taft.

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 11:59 AM
Just to clarify something I've said and other's have touched on. Unless there are more specific laws to the contrary, the lake is open for public use. Thus, you can drive your boat on the lake and through the course. The guy that set out the course does not own that portion of the lake. However, that does not mean that you own the buoys unless you want to argue that he has abandoned them. To argue that would be like arguing that you can hop in someone's boat that is moored while he's gone up to the house to relieve himself.

I like Ric's idea. Buy a cheap anchor and get a foam kickboard. Write your note in sharpie or paint pen on the kickboard. Clip a mesh laundry bag to the kickboard with a couple of orange turnballs in it. Offer assistance and upkeep costs. But before you do this, I wouldn't feel too guilty about taking a pass to test out your new investment.

/he'd be an assmunch if he thought he owned the lake. He'd be correct if he thought he owned the buoys. If I ever see someone using our course while it's out, if they are not using a tournament boat, my M.O. is to offer to pull them through the course with our boat instead. Ultimately, I want to encourage participation in this sport. I do not, however, want to invite broken buoys and lawsuits to do it.

//Waivers and releases of liability are a good thing to keep in your boat for such occasions.

///our club's course is on a portion of the lake leased by our club. There's a huge sign at the cove entrance. You'd be surprised at the amount of iliteracy on this lake. Not that it surprises me much.

John B
04-21-2005, 12:26 PM
As someone who puts a course in myself.
If someone is using my course right and not damaging it, I'm happy to see them. That is as long as they are in a tournament boat and know how to drive in a course.
Wakeboard boats with ballast is a big NONO! :mad:
Last year I pull one guy who wife had never drove in a course and one that did not have a tournament boat.
When people show up to watch us ski and don't have the right boat, or a driver, I'm more than happy to pull them.

LakePirate what you should find when you meet who put the course in is a new ski partner. :D

The thing about skiing in a course is rotation (take turns)
Six passes or three falls and your done.

Farmer Ted
04-21-2005, 12:36 PM
Farmer and I ran into this question at Greeson last year. We skied it and still will ski it. Guy was so nice that he would sit back and watch us before asking if we minded him taking a pass or two!!! Said he was happy to see others sking.

Yeah he sure was a super nice guy even towards us Mastercraft owners.....

on the other hand Brad and I permitted a peice of Lake Greeson to drop our portable course into and according to the Corps we control that section of lake when our course is in and can kick anyone out of it if we so choose, just call the park ranger.

Last year we only had one Jack@ss get snotty when I asked him if he realized what he was riding his jetski in and if he always liked to play chicken with a ski boat pulling a skier.

I would ski the course, figure out how the bouys are connected and take the stuff along to repair anything that you might break and hope that the owner shows up and offers to drive or take a pull.

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 12:49 PM
Farmer and Brad (and anyone else nearby). If you guys aren't doing anything June 6--9, I know of a course on a public lake that will be in. There'll be a boat on a lift 50' from it. If you guys can get a day off in that range, come on over.

tex
04-21-2005, 12:52 PM
remember-no white swimsuits before Easter.

bradamerry
04-21-2005, 02:29 PM
Farmer and Brad (and anyone else nearby). If you guys aren't doing anything June 6--9, I know of a course on a public lake that will be in. There'll be a boat on a lift 50' from it. If you guys can get a day off in that range, come on over.
I can see some evening runs being made on those dates :dance: , Thanks Doug. Oh, I have to ask for everyone on the board, will the Toolman be there :confused: ?

JEREMY79
04-21-2005, 02:50 PM
He and the Toolman already made their run

Granite_33
04-21-2005, 02:57 PM
Ski it, use it, maintain it.

The owner probably has just as good a chance to visit the course and see a jetskeer :mad: or an I/O :mad: running through it, as he does seeing you run through it.

The owner is avid enough to have the course out there, he is most likely avid enough to appreciate seeing you use it as opposed to one of the above mentioned running through it.

erkoehler
04-21-2005, 03:25 PM
Do it :D Have fun, and be safe!

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 03:58 PM
...will the Toolman be there :confused: ?

Only you know for sure, TPT. :D

erkoehler
04-21-2005, 04:46 PM
Thnk you could make it through the course on one of those steerable tubes? :rolleyes:

causewayskiier
04-21-2005, 05:08 PM
I agree that eventually you're going to meet the owner if you ski the course very much. That will be the time to introduce yourself and let him know you're willing to help maintain the cource. Most likely he won't have a problem with that. Other course etiquette is that when you see the other boat (course owner) don't finish your set then let the other guy(s) in your boat ski their set(s) without giving him a turn. Just my .02.

Britt
04-21-2005, 05:44 PM
I hope this isnt too dumb of a question but here goes. I have been reading up on this post and reading all the replies and I have noticed people saying things like well as long as its not an I/O or smoker which I assumer refers to outboard. I have a ProStar 200 which is an outboard and is great for slaloming behind but if it of offense to some to use for slalom courses then maybe I will refrain from using someones course? THe feeling I was getting reading these replies were that the I/O's and outboards thrash courses?? Maybe someone can shed some light upon the subject or maybe I am reading this wayyyy wrong.

Thanks guys

Britt

mississippireb
04-21-2005, 05:49 PM
I think smoker refers to the 2 stroke jet ski's BICBW

tex
04-21-2005, 05:50 PM
I hope this isnt too dumb of a question but here goes. I have been reading up on this post and reading all the replies and I have noticed people saying things like well as long as its not an I/O or smoker which I assumer refers to outboard. I have a ProStar 200 which is an outboard and is great for slaloming behind but if it of offense to some to use for slalom courses then maybe I will refrain from using someones course? THe feeling I was getting reading these replies were that the I/O's and outboards thrash courses?? Maybe someone can shed some light upon the subject or maybe I am reading this wayyyy wrong.

Thanks guys

Britt

Great Boat! When people refer to outboards-They generally are talking about the idiot running through the course in his Skeeter with the Kiss my Bass sticker on it! I don't think they are concerned with a hip rig like yours!

Ric
04-21-2005, 05:52 PM
I hope this isnt too dumb of a question but here goes. I have been reading up on this post and reading all the replies and I have noticed people saying things like well as long as its not an I/O or smoker which I assumer refers to outboard. I have a ProStar 200 which is an outboard and is great for slaloming behind but if it of offense to some to use for slalom courses then maybe I will refrain from using someones course? THe feeling I was getting reading these replies were that the I/O's and outboards thrash courses?? Maybe someone can shed some light upon the subject or maybe I am reading this wayyyy wrong.

Thanks guys

Britt

never mind-------------------------

MasterMason
04-21-2005, 05:53 PM
I hope this isnt too dumb of a question but here goes. I have been reading up on this post and reading all the replies and I have noticed people saying things like well as long as its not an I/O or smoker which I assumer refers to outboard. I have a ProStar 200 which is an outboard and is great for slaloming behind but if it of offense to some to use for slalom courses then maybe I will refrain from using someones course? THe feeling I was getting reading these replies were that the I/O's and outboards thrash courses?? Maybe someone can shed some light upon the subject or maybe I am reading this wayyyy wrong.

Thanks guys

Britt


I don't think there is a problem with your outboard ski boat, but in reality there are very few outboard ski boats around. Most that are around are owned by footers, so you don't see many being used in courses. The complaint I belive is that most outboards are not designed for skiing, and therefore the wakes etc that are exerted on the bouys is a problem IMHO

bradamerry
04-21-2005, 06:01 PM
Only you know for sure, TPT. :D
Only me and the Toolman :wavey: .


Britt, it is not your boat dude, at least not for me. Jet Skis man :mad: .

And Farmer is right about that Smoker in our course last summer. Brandy was making a pass on pairs, doing well I might add, and this a$$ comes flying in from the other end. I was on the bank cooking them there ribs I do and saw the whole thing. Farmer was probably nicer than I would have been if I would have been in the boat! It was beer thirty, so the Wildman was bullet and idiot proof by that time :friday: !

bradamerry
04-21-2005, 06:08 PM
We also have a family that camps with us that owns a outboard fishing boat. He will pull his son through the course, but is very careful doing it. And would of course repair any damage he does to it. It is not the boat, as long as it fits, it is the a$$ driving the boat. Just my 3 cents :purplaugh

LakePirate
04-21-2005, 06:18 PM
All this discussion of "smokers" reminds me of the Jimmy Buffett Book Where is Joe Merchant. I loved the "Jet Ski Killer" :headbang:

east tx skier
04-21-2005, 07:07 PM
Britt, I believe the concern with outboards and I/Os is prop placement and the chance, however remote, that it could snag a buoy or shock cord. Most likely, nobody's going to take issue with a prostar 200 running through a course, but that's the aversion to them in slalom courses. Great boat, by the way! As Brad said, the concern with damage to the slalom course can be aleviated by the knowledge that there is a good driver at the wheel. As I mentioned, the chance of snagging one is remote.

6ballsisall
04-21-2005, 07:11 PM
At least my experience with I/O's and Outboards is if you have a skier that can really get their swerve on holding a straight line or even semi straight line can be really tough (no tracking fins) This usually results in ran over buoys or worse, lines cut. I have seen it happen many times and guilty of it once myself (but I did fix it! :) )
Alot of outboards and 17'-18' runabout I/O's have similar draft to a comp boat so that is really a non issue.

Bert
04-21-2005, 07:58 PM
Ski it, use it, maintain it.

The owner probably has just as good a chance to visit the course and see a jetskeer :mad: or an I/O :mad: running through it, as he does seeing you run through it.

The owner is avid enough to have the course out there, he is most likely avid enough to appreciate seeing you use it as opposed to one of the above mentioned running through it.
I agree. When I leave my Insta slalom course in I like to see other skiers using it as it keeps the jetskiers away. I figure if I put it in a public lake I have to share. It's also a great way to meet new ski friends.

erkoehler
04-21-2005, 08:43 PM
As long as you treat as your own you should have a great time and be welcomed back.

TCrate
04-21-2005, 09:26 PM
You could try and contact your local DNR to see if they have a record of any permits for ski courses.

Farmer Ted
04-21-2005, 11:27 PM
I hope this isnt too dumb of a question but here goes. I have been reading up on this post and reading all the replies and I have noticed people saying things like well as long as its not an I/O or smoker which I assumer refers to outboard. I have a ProStar 200 which is an outboard and is great for slaloming behind but if it of offense to some to use for slalom courses then maybe I will refrain from using someones course? THe feeling I was getting reading these replies were that the I/O's and outboards thrash courses?? Maybe someone can shed some light upon the subject or maybe I am reading this wayyyy wrong.

Thanks guys

Britt

If I saw an inboard/outboard or just a plain outboard boat pulling a skier through my course I couldn't care less, I'd park the rig at one end and hope that they would come down and visit for awhile and maybe see that there is an avid waterskiier who for whatever reason doesn't have a Comp boat. I'd ask them to keep an eye out for anyone not using the course correctly and if they drag their handle over a boat guide or turn ball to zip tie it back on.

No harm no foul

same goes for a jetski, if a dude's being pulled by a jetski and making an attempt to get through the course....good on him (or her)

Farmer Ted
04-21-2005, 11:30 PM
We also have a family that camps with us that owns a outboard fishing boat. He will pull his son through the course, but is very careful doing it. And would of course repair any damage he does to it. It is not the boat, as long as it fits, it is the a$$ driving the boat. Just my 3 cents :purplaugh

And Mitch (outboard owners son) just happens to hold the
Bossier Pro(Zac) Tour Record 6@15 off..... :woohoo:


It's all about the balls, regardless of what kind of motor is pulling you.

Bert
04-22-2005, 12:15 AM
If I saw an inboard/outboard or just a plain outboard boat pulling a skier through my course I couldn't care less, I'd park the rig at one end and hope that they would come down and visit for awhile and maybe see that there is an avid waterskiier who for whatever reason doesn't have a Comp boat. I'd ask them to keep an eye out for anyone not using the course correctly and if they drag their handle over a boat guide or turn ball to zip tie it back on.

No harm no foul

same goes for a jetski, if a dude's being pulled by a jetski and making an attempt to get through the course....good on him (or her)

Hey Farmer, thats the right attitude. If every one shared it there would be more people hooked on slalom. That's what happened to me, I was trying a course with my I/O when the owners idled over, chatted with us and we ended up skiing with them the rest of the week. Two weeks later I bought a brand new pro star :dance: and a year later a portable course. Now I try to do the same.

erkoehler
04-22-2005, 01:15 AM
I think that as long as you are prepared to fix the damage your boat/jet ski/floating motorized transport causes then you can go right ahead and give it your best shot. :cool:

Professor
04-22-2005, 08:20 AM
I think that as long as you are prepared to fix the damage your boat/jet ski/floating motorized transport causes then you can go right ahead and give it your best shot. :cool:
Good Attitude.

Guys, what is the difference in our attitudes about the use of ball fields on public land and ski courses on public water???

Farmer Ted
04-22-2005, 08:26 AM
Good Attitude.

Guys, what is the difference in our attitudes about the use of ball fields on public land and ski courses on public water???

I don't have a comment about pulic ball fields, but I will comment on some of the people listed on the USA Waterski webpage (for South Central region).

If you can get one of them to email you back with some info about their clique err club, good on you.

My first impression is if these guys aren't falling all over themselves to get new members into their clubs they shouldn't be listed on USA Waterski. It's intimidating enough to make a pass at a course, it doesn't help when the people with the keys to the gate aren't very freindly about it.

east tx skier
04-22-2005, 12:20 PM
You're not kidding. My brother in law called some of the Austin clubs several times and never heard back from them. Our club is always interested in new members and when I inquired, I got an email back within a day. I haven't joined this year yet as my time on the local lake is limited and I just built my own course.