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rhsprostar
07-11-2008, 02:03 PM
After a bit of research i replaced the pump on my fuel module with an aftermarket one from NAPA. Here is the part I used and a few others that other people have used to avoid having to replace the whole module.
Fuel pumps:
NAPA E2065 45 GPH 90-95 psi. (Canadian NAPA part number)
ACDelco ep356
Advance Auto Parts E2044

Unfortunately US and Canadian NAPA parts have different part numbers if you can believe it. I don't now what that NAPA part crosses to in US NAPA.

This is for information purposes only. Please use these parts and info at your own risk.

jpmaristar
07-11-2008, 09:53 PM
I would like to thank you and others for the work you have done to work around the MC fuel pump issue. I feel we should also post the engine year and model along with the pump removed to verify compatibility with the Delco EP356 and other brands at the 56 psi output.
Mine is a 2000 Maristar 330 LTR with a Carter 323 2H22B or 8 pump.

I talked to Federal Mogul and was told the pump is a MC design and they build it only for MC. He would not give any specifics of the pump IE (output pressure).

Is the EP356 or equivalent pump adequate for this motor? I would appreciate any input. Thanks.

rhsprostar
07-11-2008, 10:37 PM
The NAPA pump E2065 that i used was for an 04 197 with LQ9. The fuel module has the Carter number 71-341s on the top of it.
I am not sure but i think that all the engines from 03-06 use the same style of in tank fuel module. Each boat has a different part number because the fuel tanks differ in size and shape from model to model.
BUT...i still think they all use the same actual pump.(Not 100% on that)
Anyone who could confirm this would be great.

jpmaristar
07-15-2008, 11:38 AM
I saw the pictures of your replacement on another post but was unable to read the numbers on the pump. If you could post the numbers on the carter pump it would help .
jpmaristar

rhsprostar
07-15-2008, 11:51 AM
I will check this afternoon but the number is Carter specific and does not really cross reference to anything as far as i can see.

boofer
07-15-2008, 11:54 AM
rhs, I am afraid that the only way to confirm/verify that the pump in all of the modules is the same is to get that information from Carter/Federal Mogul or MC. And I will give you one guess if they will cough up that information.

I would be willing to bet that the pump is the same and the difference in MC part numbers for the different boats is just as you said; they differ based on the design/shape of the different fuel tanks.

The output pressure is not important unless for some reason it was below 58 psi. The regulator decreases the pressure to 58 psi.

There do appear to be other differences. I have seen some of the systems that use a returnless system (only one fuel line connected to the fuel tank/regulator) and others with 2 lines. I am not entirely familiar with these 2 line systems. But, as far as pumps are concerned, I think that is a moot point.

jpmaristar
07-15-2008, 01:16 PM
I was trying to verify if your Carter pump had the same numbers stamped on it . My dead one reads 323 made in USA and 2H22B Carter.

Thanks for the reply,
jpmaristar

rhsprostar
07-16-2008, 08:51 AM
I was trying to verify if your Carter pump had the same numbers stamped on it . My dead one reads 323 made in USA and 2H22B Carter.

Thanks for the reply,
jpmaristar

mine has 323 MADE IN THE USA
41C11C CARTER
stamped on it.

Mine is from an 04 LQ9 motor

What boat and motor do you have?

jontaylor
07-16-2008, 10:02 AM
Thanks for all this GREAt info. My pump fried last weekend and I was told that a new pump from MasterCraft was on Back Order and that it would cost ~$450. After reading this post, and others, I went down to the local AC Delco distributor and for $141 replaced the pump. Not the easiest thing to change, but with some help, not that big of a deal. Once completed, it started right up and ran fine.

The specifics: 2002 X-30, LTR 330HP, Carter pump #71-333S - CGB 98-002. For what it's worth, the NEW Mastercraft part number the guy gave me was 155193.

Thanks again for all the info provided in these posts

rhsprostar
07-16-2008, 10:06 AM
Thanks for all this GREAt info. My pump fried last weekend and I was told that a new pump from MasterCraft was on Back Order and that it would cost ~$450. After reading this post, and others, I went down to the local AC Delco distributor and for $141 replaced the pump. Not the easiest thing to change, but with some help, not that big of a deal. Once completed, it started right up and ran fine.

The specifics: 2002 X-30, LTR 330HP, Carter pump #71-333S - CGB 98-002. For what it's worth, the NEW Mastercraft part number the guy gave me was 155193.

Thanks again for all the info provided in these posts

Glad it worked out for you. Keep us posted about an issues you may have. Did you reuse the plastic fuel line or did you replace it?

jpmaristar
07-30-2008, 03:52 PM
38421
This is the disassembled Carter pump that came out of my boat. Makes you wonder if there is enough heat to melt the nylon around the + and - contacts, why the bomb doesn't go off. This pump was frozen and I wanted to know what seized it, there was no trash in the pump itself as it is still free, the nylon melted to the contacts.
I used an ORiley pump E2044 for replacement. Attaching it to the plastic fuel line is an PIA but with a little time it can be done. I have 4 hours on pump now and it works fine and pressure at the fuel rail is in spec with MC manual.
Hope this helps others as I cant believe with a pump that is cooled by fuel it pumps can get this hot and not be a manufacture issue.

rhsprostar
07-31-2008, 11:36 PM
Nice work. It does look like the problem might be specific to this carter pump. Lets hope our replacements work out a little better.
It makes me feel better not putting that same pump back into my boat, especially at $500 a pop!:eek:

Maristar210
08-01-2008, 08:16 AM
Thanks for doing this guys. I know there are several here that really appreciate your hard work in sharing this info. (save thread)

Thanks !!! :)

treptowr
08-01-2008, 08:59 AM
Now I would love to see someone do a step-by-step "how to" for replacing this pump. Pictures would be great too.

flame312
08-03-2008, 10:15 PM
Thanks for all this GREAt info. My pump fried last weekend and I was told that a new pump from MasterCraft was on Back Order and that it would cost ~$450. After reading this post, and others, I went down to the local AC Delco distributor and for $141 replaced the pump. Not the easiest thing to change, but with some help, not that big of a deal. Once completed, it started right up and ran fine.

The specifics: 2002 X-30, LTR 330HP, Carter pump #71-333S - CGB 98-002. For what it's worth, the NEW Mastercraft part number the guy gave me was 155193.

Thanks again for all the info provided in these posts

I have a 2003 Xstar with 350 MCX, and had the died while idleing thing happen to me this weekend. My pump has the same 71-333s carter numbers that you have, and my pump MC part number is 155193 according the chart that boofer referenced in another thread (http://207.170.215.108/awweblive/AwwebStore/OnlineDoc/Part%20numbers/FUEL%20MODULE%20MATRIX%2099-07.pdf).
Did you use the ACDelco EP356 pump that was mentioned earlier in this thread. So far every one but you has had a different MC part number according to boofers chart than what my boat was calling for. I am just trying to confirm that the EP356 pump works in my fuel module also. Thanks for your help

boofer
08-04-2008, 12:18 AM
treptowr,

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=25391

boofer
08-04-2008, 12:21 AM
I have not had the time yet to dismantle my old pump and do the research. I hope to find a definitive replacement alternative. I am also going to try to come up with a modified USCG compliant system.

FlatBoard
08-04-2008, 10:57 AM
Same problem here, 2004 mcx 350. thanks for the posts on the change out. Excellent job!!

flame312
08-07-2008, 12:27 AM
Boofer,
Great job with the pics, I just took my pump module out today and was going to take pictures, but it looks like you have it covered. Thanks for your hard work, it has helped me tremendously in mustering the courage to take the pump out. I have it out and taken apart. I am now trying to figure out if the EP 356 fuel pump is going to work in my module. My boat is a 2003 X-star with 350 MCX, the fuel pump module MC part no. is 155193, the actual pump has 323 and 3081A (or 3091A, can't tell which) Carter on the side of the pump. The fuel system has a high pressure line to the injector manifold as well as a return line back to the pump plate, which is a little different from your single line pump. The pump plate has Carter 71-333s and CGB 98-002, the same as Jontaylors. If you or anybody else knows if the EP 356 or equivalent will fit the module in my boat, I would appreciate any help. My pump is already out, but if anybody needs any pictures of the MC part #155193 pump module which is my 03 X-star after it is taken apart, I would be glad to post them. Thanks again for the great work......

boofer
08-07-2008, 12:59 AM
No problem flame. Thanks for the support. I also appreciate the information from your pump module. I hope to get to the dissection soon. Been working on an A/C leak in my car. It was a royal pain.

Your system probably has a regulator mounted to the fuel rail. That would explain the return line. My system is a "returnless" system. The regulator is on top of the fuel module. Any excess fuel from the regulating process is dumped straight back into the tank.

flame312
08-07-2008, 01:23 AM
Boofer, Thanks for the quick reply. Do you know if anyone has any photos posted of the EP356 or equivalent. I looked on a couple of Auto Parts web sites and couldn't get a good enough picture to tell if the same as mine. Thanks.

rhsprostar
08-07-2008, 07:20 AM
The ep356 should be fine for the mcx. You should just check that the fuel pressure is at 58 psi after the install and off you go. If you want to really be careful you can always check the pressure stays constant at different rpms and/or boat speeds.
My boat had the 323 pump for an LQ9 but it was of the returnless line variety. I think(not sure) that all of the MC systems use the same actual pump but the modules differ for each different tank configuration for each boat model.
Have you got a picture of your module?

2000XPSD
08-07-2008, 05:28 PM
Boofer, Thanks for the quick reply. Do you know if anyone has any photos posted of the EP356 or equivalent. I looked on a couple of Auto Parts web sites and couldn't get a good enough picture to tell if the same as mine. Thanks.

i crossed the ep356 to a napa p74122. i don't know if it works yet as i just picked it up as a spare to have on the boat. I ran the tank pretty low a few weeks ago and just bought the new pump to be safe. Here's a poor pic:

rhsprostar
08-07-2008, 09:02 PM
i crossed the ep356 to a napa p74122. i don't know if it works yet as i just picked it up as a spare to have on the boat. I ran the tank pretty low a few weeks ago and just bought the new pump to be safe. Here's a poor pic:

What are the pump specs? GPH? psi? That will give you an idea if you are in the ball park.

flame312
08-08-2008, 11:45 AM
rhsprostar and 2000xpsd, Thanks for the help.. I took pictures after I took the module apart maybe it will help to have the pump pictures matched up to the 2003 Xstar with 350 MCX, My pump connection look a little different from the pump in the bag. It looks like the return from the regulator on the plate has a place in the bottom to dump the fuel back to the tank in addition to the return line from the injector manifold. This is first time uploading pictures so bear with me. If any one recognizes my pump as an exact match to anything they have bought in a parts store please let me know..... Thanks again for the great help.....

2000XPSD
08-08-2008, 12:47 PM
rhsprostar and 2000xpsd, Thanks for the help.. I took pictures after I took the module apart maybe it will help to have the pump pictures matched up to the 2003 Xstar with 350 MCX, My pump connection look a little different from the pump in the bag. It looks like the return from the regulator on the plate has a place in the bottom to dump the fuel back to the tank in addition to the return line from the injector manifold. This is first time uploading pictures so bear with me. If any one recognizes my pump as an exact match to anything they have bought in a parts store please let me know..... Thanks again for the great help.....

looks the same to me except for the maybe inlet where the strainer would go. someone will have to verify that as i haven't taken the mc one out yet
sorry for the poor pix...stupid treo

ChrisG
08-08-2008, 02:37 PM
I replaced my fuel pump a few weeks ago with the AC Delco EP356. Thanks to everyone on this forum I was able to install and put everything back together correctly (took me less than an hour). So far so good. My boat has started on a dime everytime. I bought mine from www.rockauto.com for $110 including shipping. I figured I saved myself over $500 doing it myself and not buiyng the enitre MC fuel pump module.

flame312
08-08-2008, 02:40 PM
I just got back from Advance auto parts with a Master E2044 electric fuel pump. The 1st photo -bottom end with the Advance part no. visible, 2nd photo - top with connetions, 3rd photo - side by side of my old pump and new pump from top, connetions are almost identical, 4th photo - side by side of bottom, new pump has a screen and machined aluminum intake area, old pump appears to be plastic. The new pump appears to be much better quality, it does appear to be slightly different than 2000XPSD's pump. The new pump cost $82.37 including South Carolina 7% sales tax. (And so you don't have to look around for an earlier post to identify what this pump is for) My boat is 2003 X-star with 350 MCX, the fuel pump module MasterCraft part no. is 155193 (This can be found in one of Boofer's earlier post), the actual pump has 323 and 3D01A (or 3091A, can't tell which) Carter written on the side of it. By the way when my boat quit, I could still here the pump motor running for 3 or 4 secs after turning the key on which was somewhat misleading. After getting the pump out I tested it and the motor seems to run fine but the pump will not even blow bubbles much less liquid from the output side, so if you can hear your motor running that doesn't mean is is working. Hope this helps... By the way, who do I need to send the check to for helping save the $300 from MasterCraft LOL....

2000XPSD
08-08-2008, 03:25 PM
what was on the bottom of the original pump for a strainer? From the looks of that one it looks like nothing to me. I like the screen in the other one.
mine btw was $60...and that E2044 is a another direct cross number

rhsprostar
08-08-2008, 04:18 PM
My replacement pump looked almost identical to the e2044 you have on the right side of the pic. Screen and everything. I used the NAPA part but it looked just like that.

I would go with that pump. DId you get the specs on either? GPH and/or PSI? Just call them back and ask for them, they should be able to tell you.

boofer
08-09-2008, 12:52 AM
Well, I am pleased to see all of this "progress." I want to caution all of you about using aftermarket parts. Despite the fact that these pumps seem to be fitting the bill, PLEASE be careful. I opted for the $400+ MC module because I was not comfortable using a part that someone on a message board says will work without any hard background information. The fuel pump is a critical item on a $40k+ boat. It is not something that you want to ad lib. Having made my disclaimer, I have some new information.

I plan on starting a new post soon. I dismantled my old module and took a buttload of pictures. I also went to AutoZone, Pep Boys, and Advance to attempt to find a cross reference. At Pep Boys they cross referenced the EP356 with a Carter P74122. I did not have the module number with me (71-342S). When I got home I called them with this number and they did not have a cross reference. They tried "P71342" and a couple of other variations. The pump "looked" similar, but so do most in tank fuel pumps. This is another caution point! Just because they look alike, they may not be alike.

I am going to go to a Federated Auto Parts store next week. I spoke with a guy there that was sure that he could help me find a valid cross reference. He said that he had a great deal of experience (18 years) with this sort of thing (proprietary parts) and superseded parts.

Now, as soon as I get the time, I will begin my other post. First impressions with my "evaluation" lead to either a bad hose (from the fuel pump to the regulator) and/or a faulty pump. Apparently, Carter had to redesign the fuel pumps they sold to GM because of a high failure rate. And, the hose I mentioned is different on my new module (totally different).

BearCreek
08-09-2008, 04:56 PM
I have to thank all of you for this information. I have a 2002 X-star with the same set up and baught the new e2044 and it worked excatly the same as the original which you might think was a good thing but not so fast. The original pump wasn't bad, even after a trip to the dealer I was told the fuel pump was bad and needed to replace the whole module, as we all know $450.00. So I took the advice off this thread and baught the e2044 and installed it, same issue loss of power and bogg down beyond half throttle. After futher inspection notice that their peace of crap fuel line was kinking after I reassembled everthing. I went to advanced auto and baught fuel line for $1.25 installed it and presto magico, she run better than she ever did. I wonder how many people out there have had loss of fuel preassure and got burnt from the dealer for $450.00 for what could possibly been $1.26 fuel line. I think there are many problems with Carters set up, even if Master Craft or the dealers refuse to help us, post like this will.

BearCreek
08-09-2008, 05:14 PM
boofer, I have been in the parts buisness for 18 years myself and one thing I lurned is that some manufactors, exspecialy pump manufactures, use part numbers like serial number, they don't alway's cross from different aplications. Some one at Carter would have to do that ( could luck with that) because the numbers themself might indicate the application ie. automotive, aviation, marine, so it might not be even possible for anyone else. If you have an electrical component in a fuel system I would think that the standards must be pretty strick, no matter what equipment it might be in. So as we often do in my line of work is, if the voltage , psi, gph match and it fits in the supports, it will work. I now know from my own experince with the e2044 installed in my boat, I can say, they can stick that $450.00 right up there butt. No expert just my 2 cents. By the way thank you for your efforts in getting the facts can't wait to here what you find out. Keep up the good work.

boofer
08-10-2008, 11:19 PM
I know what you mean BearCreek. I am going to do my best. Sometimes, it is a case of talking to the right person. And that is usually just a matter of luck.

I caution you though on the fuel hose that you bought. None of the stores around here carried in tank fuel hose. They carried "fuel injection" hose which is used outside of the tank. The correct designation for in tank (submersible) fuel hose is SAE 30R10.

The short span of hose on my old module was kinked. It was kinked to the point that I would estimate that it was only good for 1/2 of its capacity. The new module had a completely different looking hose. It is clear and corrugated unlike the smooth black one in the old module.

I am real curious if GM had a recall relating to the Carter pumps. I cannot find anything pertaining to one. If anyone knows, please speak up.

Odds are that a pump with the same specs will suffice safely. I believe that engine nut (Indmar employee) somewhat verified that the EP356 fits the bill. But, I want to help give people like myself (anal), some peace of mind.

rhsprostar
08-11-2008, 12:07 AM
Boofer
I agree with you on most points but I think if you want absolute peace of mind you better stick to the OEM part.
I think you will find that as the info is proprietary to MC and they choose not to disclose it, we will have to go the trial and error route. Now we are obviously not just flying by the seat of our pants here either.
What are your main concerns as they pertain to the pump? Capacity? pressure? because we have confirmed that these aftermarket pumps are sufficient in both regards.
Anyway I urge everyone to check the gallons per hour and pressure of the replacement parts before they go in. If not just for peace of mind more than anything else.
Boofer good luck with your quest and thanks for all info you have provided up to this point.

flame312
08-13-2008, 12:44 AM
what was on the bottom of the original pump for a strainer? From the looks of that one it looks like nothing to me. I like the screen in the other one.
mine btw was $60...and that E2044 is a another direct cross number

My replacement pump looked almost identical to the e2044 you have on the right side of the pic. Screen and everything. I used the NAPA part but it looked just like that.

I would go with that pump. DId you get the specs on either? GPH and/or PSI? Just call them back and ask for them, they should be able to tell you.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but I decided to take a couple of extra days at the lake, and just got back home. As you can probably tell from the other post by now, the E2044 pump from advance auto worked great. You're right 2000XPSD there was no screen on the old carter pump and the bottom was plastic. The new pump seems to be much higher quality. There was a noticable improvement in power and top end, so the old pump must have been deteriorating for a while. I also had trouble with the old fuel line trying to kink while reinstalling the pump.

RHSProstar, I didn't get the GPH or PSI from Advance, and it wasn't on the box. I also checked my fuel pressure regulator and it didn't have the PSI stamped on the top like some of the others I have seen. I did hold the boat on top end for a while and it never backed off, but mine only runs about 42 mph anyway. I think the E2044 pump is a good replacement, but the fuel line has real potential for problems and a good replacement needs to be found.
Thanks for all the help guys..... Now if I can only get some help on my 1976 MasterCraft with the Escort Marine 255 Engine(Windsor 351)....

flame312
08-13-2008, 12:51 AM
Boofer, I don't know what year GM you're talking about but I have a 1998 Suburban 2500 with a 454 and it is on the 7th fuel pump. It's so bad the GM gave me a life time warranty on the fuel pump that is tranferable if I sell the car. I had 3 pumps by the time it had 38,000 miles on it. I am sure that is before the time frame you are looking at, but it tells you that GM has been having pump trouble for a while. I don't know if it is a carter pump or not, but I would bet that it is.....

rhsprostar
06-01-2009, 09:02 PM
Bump for those looking for the fuel pump info. My replacement has been working great for about 60 hours now.

rhsprostar
06-03-2009, 10:09 AM
Bump again for more people who are asking me about fuel pump info!:D

electraglideedge
06-15-2009, 03:27 PM
Just read all the fuel pumpposts really helpful. My p/p burnt out last week and having seen all the details have now taken it out to find a replacement, The MC dealer in the UK quoted me approx $600 just to supply the pump !!! unbelievable.If anyone has a cross ref I can use in the UK let me know. Thanks

rhsprostar
06-15-2009, 11:24 PM
There was someone who sourced a aftermarket pump in Europe. I will have to do more of a search to find out more specific info.....

rhsprostar
06-25-2009, 10:14 AM
Bump for all those in need!

craig3972
06-25-2009, 12:02 PM
You guys are scaring me. I have a three week vacation coming up and i dont want to be stuck without a boat because of this problem. I have an 06 x-star with an mcx - have the pump problems been solved by the year my boat was manufactured? or should i get a spare pump just in case?

bigmac
06-25-2009, 12:23 PM
You guys are scaring me. I have a three week vacation coming up and i dont want to be stuck without a boat because of this problem. I have an 06 x-star with an mcx - have the pump problems been solved by the year my boat was manufactured? or should i get a spare pump just in case?

No. I think they switched to the new fuel pump sometime in mid-2007.

I think it's reasonable to suspect that fuel pump failures are more common in 1998-2006 MasterCrafts than in other brands of ski boats, but I wouldn't conclude that fuel pump failure in MasterCrafts in those years is imminent. By no means does this website represent even the majority of MC owners, and it's well-known that online discussion forums are more likely to display complaints than accolades. It's easy to get spooked by postings on the internet, assuming that something that gets posted a lot is a universal problem, but that just isn't true.

My buddy across the lake has a 2004 X-10. I don't think I've ever seen him run it with more than 1/4 tank, and I can't remember the number of times he's run out of gas (I've towed him in twice myself). Despite my dire warnings, his fuel pump is doing just fine.

I would be concerned if I ran the boat a lot with less than 1/4 tank, and I'd be concerned if I had ever run out of gas, but if neither of those things apply to you, I wouldn't worry about it.

craig3972
06-25-2009, 12:33 PM
No. I think they switched to the new fuel pump sometime in mid-2007.

I think it's reasonable to suspect that fuel pump failures are more common in 1998-2006 MasterCrafts than in other brands of ski boats, but I wouldn't conclude that fuel pump failure in MasterCrafts in those years is imminent. By no means does this website represent even the majority of MC owners, and it's well-known that online discussion forums are more likely to display complaints than accolades. It's easy to get spooked by postings on the internet, assuming that something that gets posted a lot is a universal problem, but that just isn't true.

My buddy across the lake has a 2004 X-10. I don't think I've ever seen him run it with more than 1/4 tank, and I can't remember the number of times he's run out of gas (I've towed him in twice myself). Despite my dire warnings, his fuel pump is doing just fine.

I would be concerned if I ran the boat a lot with less than 1/4 tank, and I'd be concerned if I had ever run out of gas, but if neither of those things apply to you, I wouldn't worry about it.

Thanks for the above. When my gas gauge reads empty, I can look thru the side of the tank - it looks like there is still 1/4 tank remaining - so maybe i will be lucky.

bigmac
06-25-2009, 12:39 PM
Thanks for the above. When my gas gauge reads empty, I can look thru the side of the tank - it looks like there is still 1/4 tank remaining - so maybe i will be lucky.

Well, having said all of that....I confess that the four MasterCraft owners on our lake have pitched in to purchase a community fuel pump to keep just in case one of us has a pump go TU at an inconvenient time. OTOH, we've had the thing for 3 years and no one has used it yet.

Whitfield
06-26-2009, 02:18 AM
Good work :) Thanks!

I have seen some of the systems that use a returnless system (only one fuel line connected to the fuel tank/regulator) and others with 2 lines. I am not entirely familiar with these 2 line systems. But, as far as pumps are concerned, I think that is a moot point.

The 2-line system (Feed and return) has great benifit. These pumps work at peak capacity all the time. They are designed to flow and greater psi and volume then necessary. The Fuel Pressure Regulator (at the engine fuel injector rail) controls pressure and the injector nozzle size and (computer controlled injector signal) pulse width control volume. The return line helps to keep good flow which equals good pump cooling at low RPM / idle.

A returnless system would have demished pump cooling at idle.

BHT
06-26-2009, 09:37 AM
"No. I think they switched to the new fuel pump sometime in mid-2007."

Do you think it's possible to go by boat vin number to find out if you have the new style pump or would pulling the pump and checking the part number the only way to know?

bigmac
06-26-2009, 09:44 AM
I'll bet that information is not available to the public.

rhsprostar
06-26-2009, 10:34 AM
Good work :) Thanks!



The 2-line system (Feed and return) has great benifit. These pumps work at peak capacity all the time. They are designed to flow and greater psi and volume then necessary. The Fuel Pressure Regulator (at the engine fuel injector rail) controls pressure and the injector nozzle size and (computer controlled injector signal) pulse width control volume. The return line helps to keep good flow which equals good pump cooling at low RPM / idle.

A returnless system would have demished pump cooling at idle.

Actually from what i could see they are both the (feed and return) type of systems. The one with the single line has the fuel pressure regulator on the top of the fuel module. The pump runs at peak all the time and the excess fuel is returned to the tank through a line that actually deposits it back in the tank over the fuel pump, theoretically helping cool it.

Chief
06-26-2009, 07:13 PM
Has anyone came up with a automobile part number for the Carther 71-342S fuel pump?

It would seem that my boat with about 4 inches of fuel in left in the tank equals empty when idling. The fuel pump still works and the boat is well except for the impending fuel pump doom since it stumbled and stopped running.

Figure I will just buy one now and wait for that faithful day that seems to befall all who let their tanks go to 1/4.

rhsprostar
06-27-2009, 12:50 AM
Chief
I think that you will be fine with any of the replacements listed earlier in the post. The specific part number for your Fuel Module is boat specific because of tank dimensions rather than actual pump output. The tank is much different from a 197 to an X-star for example, in both size and shape.;)

craig3972
07-06-2009, 01:00 PM
Had my Carter fuel pump go on my 06 with 350hrs on it. i rarely ran it below 1/4 tank, but after opening up and examining my failed pump i dont believe that is how it failed.
It appears that two tiny tabs on the armature that drive the pump sheared off. See pics. The tabs were still inside the housing when i cut it open. I suspect that they could shear off and get stuck in the armature preventing it from turning.

I was lucky to obtain a replacement pump on Canada Day (everything closed) but i wanted to thank the person who posted the AC Delco replacement numbers - otherwise I wouldnt have known which pump to get. Saved me a couple of days on the water:)

49034

49035

49036

rhsprostar
07-06-2009, 01:58 PM
Glad to hear you got it up an running so quickly. Nice work on the pump......i wonder if mine is like that? I still have it in my garage. How did you cut it open, with a dremmel?

craig3972
07-06-2009, 03:57 PM
Glad to hear you got it up an running so quickly. Nice work on the pump......i wonder if mine is like that? I still have it in my garage. How did you cut it open, with a dremmel?

I chucked it in a lathe and cut it with a grooving tool behind the swaging.
I could tell right away something was wrong with the pump cause the noise it made was very different than normal. Also , I pushed the valve on the fuel rail and there was no pressure.
The pump only cost me $210.00cdn, so i may buy an extra to have in the boat.
I hope the AC Delco part is higher quality than the Carter

bigmac
07-06-2009, 05:14 PM
I hope the AC Delco part is higher quality than the Carter

From the many posts on the subject, it appears that the Delcos and AirTeks are much better made. I don't think I've ever seen a post here about one of those replacements failing, whereas there have been several posts from people with multiple failures of dealer-installed MC-supplied modules prior to their use of these Millenium pumps in about 2008.

rhsprostar
07-06-2009, 08:25 PM
Well so far so good with my NAPA version.(70 hrs) I guess only time will tell. It does seem like those Carter pumps are substandard though. I hope MC changed suppliers for that part..

mgurley
07-07-2009, 09:11 AM
Are the part #'s listed for the MCX? is there a different pump for the RTP?

rhsprostar
07-07-2009, 01:18 PM
Pretty sure it is the same pump.

rhsprostar
07-07-2009, 01:34 PM
As far as i can see....from looking at the different fuel modules on www.mymastercraft.com, the same module is listed for the rtp and mcx for the different models, so......the aftermarket pump will also be the same.

tcmercil
07-09-2009, 05:01 PM
Ok - 2006 Mastercraft X-1 with the 310 engine
these numbers seem giberish today, but what my mechanic pulled off my pump

71-3425
391-058-2

05f09a-3
ce-98-002

curious what I need to make this happen. I'm thinking about picking up 2 sets...

This make sense to anyone?

rhsprostar
07-09-2009, 08:33 PM
You will be fine with the any of the pumps listed. Same pump for the RTP-1 and the MCX. You dont really need more than one pump though. Any of these pumps can be had almost instantly. The install is fairly simple, the only real snag in my opinion is the fuel line from the pump to the top of the module. The one that Carter has used is plastic junk that can easily kink. I ended up replacing mine with a piece of EFI fuel line. Now that being said I would also say that you need to have some experience working around engines, or a friend that does it make it go smoothly.

tcmercil
07-10-2009, 08:59 AM
I was looking for the part # for the non Mastercraft version of the pump.... or should I just pull the pump out and go into Napa and see what they have to match it up.

why two? My neighbor and I have the same boat - 06 X1 - so we talked about having a spare as they seem to be pretty inexpensive, incase this happens again.


I've already replaced the filer, so I've pulled her out once already... just need to disonnect the fuel line...

bigmac
07-10-2009, 09:32 AM
I was looking for the part # for the non Mastercraft version of the pump.... or should I just pull the pump out and go into Napa and see what they have to match it up.

..


Check this thread for the part numbers...Advance Auto carries the Airtex.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=24965

rgardjr1
07-10-2009, 10:30 AM
Subscribed

TX.X-30 fan
07-15-2009, 12:27 PM
Here is what has happened the last two time out, died 10/12 times. Mostly from idle and just coming on the throtle slow. Yesterday it would not start for 5 times after it died.

If this an early sign of pump going bad??

The delco ep356 is good for MCX??

rhsprostar
07-15-2009, 01:12 PM
From my own experience, there were no warning signs...it just died. Might be your pump. Sounds like it could be bad gas too. Maybe try putting in some gas line antifreeze to take car of any water issues. Cheap and easy first thing to try.

TX.X-30 fan
07-15-2009, 01:31 PM
From my own experience, there were no warning signs...it just died. Might be your pump. Sounds like it could be bad gas too. Maybe try putting in some gas line antifreeze to take car of any water issues. Cheap and easy first thing to try.



Thanks I will do that either way, 04 x30 though and I am pretty worried about it going at some point 20 miles from the ramp and spending 250 on a tow or worse blown into a cliff.

bigmac
07-15-2009, 01:46 PM
Here is what has happened the last two time out, died 10/12 times. Mostly from idle and just coming on the throtle slow. Yesterday it would not start for 5 times after it died.

If this an early sign of pump going bad??

The delco ep356 is good for MCX??


That was exactly my experience when my pump died - basically same boat as yours. It started out by intermittently dying on me, usually on acceleration. Then I began having trouble restarting after it died. No problem since replacement of that pump.

rhsprostar
07-15-2009, 01:56 PM
Yup ep356 is the right one.

TX.X-30 fan
07-15-2009, 02:43 PM
Thank-you gentlemen, I am going proactive and change it before I strand the family.


Looks straight forward as to the replacement, just need the tool to crimp the fuel line fitting. I have Boofers thread saved.

TX.X-30 fan
07-16-2009, 12:21 PM
Quick question, can I use a screw down clamp instead of the crimp one I removed from the pump itself. I left the top one on will I have to take it off to get the pump back in???

rhsprostar
07-16-2009, 12:53 PM
You mean the hose clamp for the outlet on the top of the pump?

TX.X-30 fan
07-16-2009, 01:04 PM
You mean the hose clamp for the outlet on the top of the pump?

Yes sir. ........

rhsprostar
07-16-2009, 01:23 PM
Sorry but PMs were down for a few minutes.
Yes i used a stainless hose clamp on mine. Now I did change out the whole piece of plastic tube to a piece of EFI fuel line because it was kinked. I understand some of the newer boats have a corregated plastic line that seems to work better.

rhsprostar
07-16-2009, 01:33 PM
You know, I may have used a zip tie....:huh::huh:
Can't remember......i think it was the clamp because i used the fuel line.

Kevinmr
07-17-2009, 06:47 PM
The fuel pump on our '03 X-7 died last weekend. The module is on backorder everywhere.

The pump part reads 323 2F18A, which I haven't seen elsewhere in this thread...the replacement matrix pdf earlier in this thread is a dead link. Any suggestions about where to look for a replacement?

Any help appreciated. Thanks.

bigmac
07-17-2009, 06:53 PM
The module is a MasterCraft-only part. This thread, the Delco EP356 or the Airtex E3044 is about replacing only the pump itself in that module. It appears to be a viable option if you want to do it yourself. MasterCraft dealers won't, apparently.

rhsprostar
07-17-2009, 08:51 PM
You should be good with the replacements listed for the pump. This involves taking the module apart and just replacing the pump. Check out this thread
www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=31267
Stu has some good pics up. He is in the middle of doing his pump tonight!

Kevinmr
07-17-2009, 10:01 PM
The module is a MasterCraft-only part. This thread, the Delco EP356 or the Airtex E3044 is about replacing only the pump itself in that module. It appears to be a viable option if you want to do it yourself. MasterCraft dealers won't, apparently.

Sorry that I didn't make that clear in my post...I understood that, and just wanted to check to see if the EP356 was the right one for my particular pump. The part number for my Carter pump was one I hadn't seen listed elsewhere. Thanks.

Austxraider
07-24-2009, 11:06 PM
Thanks for the great info--- just bought an '07 xstar and it ran great for about 10 hours before the fuel pump died........ called the local MC dealer.. to get the part.. $600+ only to drive 45 min through traffic to find out they didnt have the correct part for my boat after all and the correct one was back ordered...

Net is I read this post, went by Advanced Auto parts this AM, picked up the e2044($85.00), a 3/16" socket/allen thing ($2.49), and $3 for a fuel line remover tool, back to the dealer for the $16 gasket..( not sure I really needed it, the old one looked good, but what the hell....) and an hour and 15 min later I was back on the water...

Boofer's picks were great to explain the removing process...not too difficult and much easier with his step by step..

Thanks RHSprostar for the detail on the replacement pump..

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=25391

you really have to ask yourself .... $600+ to buy the same subpar set up?

BTW I have a 1997 Maristar 225 VRS sitting in the slip right next to the d*** 07 xstar... and that maristar hasn't had a problem in 10 years....

rhsprostar
07-27-2009, 11:02 AM
No problem, glad you got it taken care of.;)

sheahunter
07-27-2009, 04:01 PM
So I have followed this thread. I have a '06 197 whose pump has now failed twice in the last year. Which model pump do I have to get, the label on my old was the 71-341s Carter/ federal mogul.

Do I get the
E2044
or the
e2065?

Thanks,

rhsprostar
07-27-2009, 04:15 PM
That was the same number i had on my pump. I went with the e2065 but you could do either. Which motor?

sheahunter
07-28-2009, 08:41 AM
The red one.

amesgardner
07-28-2009, 10:28 PM
Hey Guys, need some help. 2002 197 LQ9. Pump went out. I really didnt see any mention of which auto pump could replace this. My existing module says - 71-332S. I was told I need to order mastercraft part 155192. Did some homework and was told by a cool dealer that an auto may work, but it needed to be 8.5", 60 PSI with return. I leave for a lake trip friday and hope not to have to order a new mastercraft pump......

bigmac
07-29-2009, 12:14 AM
Hey Guys, need some help. 2002 197 LQ9. Pump went out. I really didnt see any mention of which auto pump could replace this. My existing module says - 71-332S. I was told I need to order mastercraft part 155192. Did some homework and was told by a cool dealer that an auto may work, but it needed to be 8.5", 60 PSI with return. I leave for a lake trip friday and hope not to have to order a new mastercraft pump......
155192 is the whole module, and is MasterCraft-specific. There is no automobile equivalent.

These several fuel pump threads are about pulling the module and just replacing the pump IN the module. The MasterCraft module would be about $450-$500 IF you can find a dealer that has one in stock. Word is, they're backordered from the factory. The pumps like the E2044 or EP356 are about $90. Not a MasterCraft-sanctioned replacement. Probably BETTER than the OEM Carter pump that comes in the replacement module you'd buy.

Do a search on the various fuel pump threads by Boofer. (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/search.php?searchid=1941391) Excellent descriptions and photos.

amesgardner
07-29-2009, 12:38 AM
155192 is the whole module, and is MasterCraft-specific. There is no automobile equivalent.

These several fuel pump threads are about pulling the module and just replacing the pump IN the module. The MasterCraft module would be about $450-$500 IF you can find a dealer that has one in stock. Word is, they're backordered from the factory. The pumps like the E2044 or EP356 are about $90. Not a MasterCraft-sanctioned replacement. Probably BETTER than the OEM Carter pump that comes in the replacement module you'd buy.

Do a search on the various fuel pump threads by Boofer. (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/search.php?searchid=1941391) Excellent descriptions and photos.

Thanks bigmac, will look at those. Do you happen to know if those pumps meet the 8.5", 60 PSI with return?

bigmac
07-29-2009, 08:04 AM
Thanks bigmac, will look at those. Do you happen to know if those pumps meet the 8.5", 60 PSI with return?
The concept of a return line is related to the module, not the pump. The excess fuel from the rail is dumped back into the tank via an extra line. On the current pump modules, the return takes place right at the regulator, which is located on the top of the tank, so there is no extra line. In either case, the pump itself is the same.

Likewise, the "8.5 inches" relates to the module, probably the diameter. The dealer you talked to assumed you were going to replace the whole module rather than just the pump in the module. Since you would be re-using the module after putting a new pump in it, the diameter of the module and the presence/absence of a return line are irrelevant.

I'd never thought of replacing the whole module. I suppose it's feasible, but the 14 mounting holes would all have to line up, the height would have to be the same, there would have to be a filter before the pump, and the weatherpack electrical connection would have to match. Anyway, it would be an unnecessary effort and expense. Far easier to just replace the failed component, the pump.

Yes, all of the pumps mentioned here (EP356, E2044, E2065) provide sufficient fuel pressure and meet that 60 PSI spec.

rhsprostar
07-29-2009, 12:08 PM
I did my 04 LQ9 with the e2065, rated at 45gph and 90-95 psi. I don't see why an 02 would be any different.

bigmac
07-29-2009, 12:40 PM
I've been concerned reading several of the posts here where people are replacing the fuel line that connects the pump to the regulator. Here's a tip for those of you replacing the fuel pump with these aftermarket pumps: You have to be careful of the hose your use. Not all fuel line is created equal.

If you go to the auto store and ask for fuel line, they'll give you whatever they have in bulk. Might cost you $3 or $4. This is generally going to be a bad thing.

Fuel line is SAE rated, and the ratings are:

Fuels hose types generally available at the auto parts store -

SAE 30R7 is for EFI return line, or carburetor supply (low pressure, non submerged)
SAE 30R9 is for outside-the-tank EFI supply (high pressure non-submerged)
SAE 30R10 is for all in-tank use (high pressure, submerged)

This is very important! When I went to NAPA and asked for fuel injector line, they gave me hydraulic hose. It met the pressure specs, but not the permeability requirements. I asked for the good stuff, and they tried to give me 30R9 ($15 for 18 inches). I noted that that stuff said "Not for submersion in gasoline". When I looked it up, I found that indeed, the 30R9 will swell and crack, and ultimately fail if submerged in gasoline. It will work from the pump module to the injector rail, meets the pressure requirements, but can't be submerged, such as in our MasterCraft fuel tanks.

Just sayin...connecting an in-tank pump requires fuel line that meets SAE 30R10. The stuff is expensive, but the lesser tubing I see many of you using will have a limited life-span in your fuel tank.

The optimal setup I see would be the corrugated, non-kinking stuff that most OEMs are using these days, including MasterCraft in their new fuel pump modules. I can't find a source of that stuff, and autoparts people just give me a blank look when I ask them about it.

This stuff...(ignore the fact that it's burst :)

http://mccollister.info/fuelline.jpg

http://mccollister.info/airtexmodule.jpg

rhsprostar
07-29-2009, 01:33 PM
Good point Bigmac, It seems like a lot of people are reusing the original line, which is fine but if it is kinked or in any way seems to be in "not perfect condition", better to replace it.

Please also make sure that your hose fittings are on perfectly, with no leaks. If there is a leak you will see symptoms like, hard-starting or having to wait 5 seconds before cranking, everytime to get the motor to start. With a leak, the pump effectively loses its prime each time you shut the boat off and has to reprime the whole system each time you restart the motor. Easy fix but a PITA because you have to remove the module again.;)

stu
07-29-2009, 04:24 PM
Oh, well, just means more Duff Beer for me while working on the boat!

rudaire
07-29-2009, 05:11 PM
Napa sells submersible fuel hoses for around $25 per foot that meet all the specs of an in-tank hose. They only sell them in 1 foot lengths, and usually don't stock them, but can get them quickly from their central supply, or so I hear. I haven't bought mine yet.

http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=5091&location_id=541



I plan on using a reducer, as pictured and buying a foot of both 1/4 and 5/16. I'm sure I'll have enough for 1 or even 2 people to use my scrap if anyone cares..

Can anyone who has done this estimate the total length I'll need?

Also, trying to be sure the reducer is also suitable for in-tank use is even more challenging...
dave

rudaire
07-29-2009, 05:13 PM
Darn.. Doesn't look like gates makes submersible hose in 1/4.....

rudaire
07-29-2009, 05:44 PM
I cannot find 1/4 submersible fuel hose anywhere.. I mean.. any where..
Are we sure the inlet barb at the top of the fuel pump module is 1/4 and not 5/16?? This sucks
dave

bigmac
07-29-2009, 06:41 PM
Are we sure the inlet barb at the top of the fuel pump module is 1/4 and not 5/16?? This sucks
dave

I'm not sure that we're sure of that. It wouldn't make sense, really, since virtually all automobile fuel line fittings are 5/16 or 3/8

bigmac
07-29-2009, 06:50 PM
After futher inspection notice that their peace of crap fuel line was kinking after I reassembled everthing. I went to advanced auto and baught fuel line for $1.25 installed it and presto magico, she run better than she ever did.

As noted in another thread, that $1.25 fuel line isn't SAE-rated for submersion in gasoline (SAE 30R10) and will likely disintegrate on you sooner or later (sooner according to Gates Corporation).

amesgardner
07-29-2009, 07:34 PM
Thanks bigmack and rhsprostar!!!

rudaire
07-29-2009, 10:14 PM
As noted in another thread, that $1.25 fuel line isn't SAE-rated for submersion in gasoline (SAE 30R10) and will likely disintegrate on you sooner or later (sooner according to Gates Corporation).

I've read more than one account of people using non-submersible fuel lines on other forums for trucks etc where they only lasted 4 days. More forums report them lasting at least a year, but many advise to replace or at least inspect yearly.. Funny thing is Ducati motorcycles DO use a 1/4" in tank line, and the ducati mechanics (in the USA) apparently use regular EFI line when they replace the pumps since the submersible is hard to source. I don't know what pressure the pump runs however..

dave

stu
07-30-2009, 10:57 AM
I cannot find 1/4 submersible fuel hose anywhere.. I mean.. any where..
Are we sure the inlet barb at the top of the fuel pump module is 1/4 and not 5/16?? This sucks
dave

I'm sure it is 1/4 on my module since I just did the job a week ago. The 5/16 hose was simply too big for it and I doubt you'd be able to get a good seal, even if you clamped the hell out of it. The 1/4 fit perfectly on the module barb. I'll send a PM to jsullivan who just did this job too and ask about it.

As far as the reduction coupler, I tried something like that except made of brass and I did not go with it b/c I wanted to leave extra play/length (like the factory hose was) so the plastic cylinder could slide up and down, and the coupler interfered with natural bend of the hose and set up a kink point just above it.

The hose I bought from Advance Auto was Thermoid Fuel Injection Hose, 1/4 " X 18" inches, and I cut about 5 or 6 inches off of it.

bigmac
07-30-2009, 11:01 AM
The hose I bought from Advance Auto was Thermoid Fuel Injection Hose, 18 inches, and I cut about 5 or 6 inches off of it.


I'd sure keep an eye on that, be prepared to inspect it yearly. It's gonna have a tendency to disintegrate.

stu
07-30-2009, 11:10 AM
I'd sure keep an eye on that, be prepared to inspect it yearly. It's gonna have a tendency to disintegrate.

I'm gonna change it as soon as we come up with with the right thing to replace it with and a source to get it.

I'm glad I made no hose-type recommendation at all in my aftermkt fuel pump change post. Based on earlier posts, I just went to the auto store and asked for "EFI" rated hose. I have gone back and made note of bigmac's submersion issue in my post.

By the way, the factory hose that came with my module was heat-molded on the ends and was definitely not reusable, IMO.

rudaire
07-30-2009, 01:33 PM
So if i follow all of this correctly, we haven't found a 'forum approved' suitable hose to connect our replacement fuel pump to the module because the module requires a 1/4 hose, and there seems to be no source for fuel submersible 1/4 inch hose. And also that re-using the factory supplied hose it dicey. Is there a way to remove the 1/4 inch barb on the module and replace that with a 5/16? Or is there any other solution available for this other than buying the mastercraft complete module?

dave

stu
07-30-2009, 04:04 PM
Rudaire, I think you are part of a "work in progress."

ps, I wish I could be out on the water this wkend too. Throttle cable.

rhsprostar
07-30-2009, 04:13 PM
Rudaire, I think you are part of a "work in progress."

ps, I wish I could be out on the water this wkend too. Throttle cable.

OK.......we have a fix for that to!!!

-The first thing you need is a a 7ft piece of lamp cord, some paperclips and a anglegrinder......:D
..
.
.
.
.

stu
07-30-2009, 04:21 PM
7ft piece of lamp cord, some paperclips and a anglegrinder......:D
..
.
.
.
.


You know me, I need photos. I'm trying to picture it...just got the image im my mind!...:shocked:

rudaire
07-31-2009, 12:03 AM
Rudaire, I think you are part of a "work in progress."

ps, I wish I could be out on the water this wkend too. Throttle cable.

Actually I devised a workaround.. Since my fuel tank isn't vented, I just use a 12 volt electric air pump to pump air into my fuel tank. I keep an eye on it, and try to keep it between 55 and 65 psi by cycling it on and off, but once it gets up to pressure it lasts for quite a while as the only way for the pressure to go down is for the fuel to be burned out of the tank. I've since removed my fuel pump, but make sure the fuel pick-up hose reaches the bottom of the tank.. The only real problem is the noise from the 12V air pump is annoying, and i can't use the rear cabin cigarette lighter to light my smokes after a hard run anymore since the air pump is plugged in there.. But at least I'm on the water!! and the air pumps sell for $30!!

stu
07-31-2009, 10:57 AM
:rolleyes:;)

Rudaire, you almost got me!

rhsprostar
07-31-2009, 11:35 AM
Actually I devised a workaround.. Since my fuel tank isn't vented, I just use a 12 volt electric air pump to pump air into my fuel tank. I keep an eye on it, and try to keep it between 55 and 65 psi by cycling it on and off, but once it gets up to pressure it lasts for quite a while as the only way for the pressure to go down is for the fuel to be burned out of the tank. I've since removed my fuel pump, but make sure the fuel pick-up hose reaches the bottom of the tank.. The only real problem is the noise from the 12V air pump is annoying, and i can't use the rear cabin cigarette lighter to light my smokes after a hard run anymore since the air pump is plugged in there.. But at least I'm on the water!! and the air pumps sell for $30!!

I LIKE IT!!!
Sounds like some serious consideration was put into that one!;)

André
07-31-2009, 08:42 PM
Help!
The pump died on my friend's 06 MCX.
Wich replacement should do the job?

bigmac
07-31-2009, 08:45 PM
Help!
The pump died on my friend's 06 MCX.
Wich replacement should do the job?

See this thread... (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=24965)

André
07-31-2009, 10:25 PM
See this thread... (http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=24965)

Funny Dr!
Just wanted to now if there was a specefic replacement for the MCX...

bigmac
08-01-2009, 01:47 AM
Funny Dr!
Just wanted to now if there was a specefic replacement for the MCX...

:D

Just jokin' ya, Andre.

Nah...they're all going to be OK with the same pumps described here. Be careful with the in-tank hose, though. Apparently he's going to have to re-use the old one, so he either needs to be careful getting it off the old pump, or at least cut it as close to the barb on the pump as possible. No one has found a source of fuel line replacement, yet.

BOATNGUYNE
08-01-2009, 05:13 AM
I have a friend who just bought a new pump thru MC and after recieving it he found that it was
not the problem......FYI... MC's part number is 155183

Here is his contact info: Mark Davidson 402-301-9942

bigmac
08-01-2009, 08:11 AM
I have a friend who just bought a new pump thru MC and after recieving it he found that it was
not the problem......FYI... MC's part number is 155183

Here is his contact info: Mark Davidson 402-301-9942


Good tip, although these threads have been about just replacing the fuel pump for $94 instead of the whole module for $441.

TX.X-30 fan
08-01-2009, 02:16 PM
I used the ac delco and autozone crossed it with their pump and 5/6 hours later all is good.

My fuel pickup line was like new I saw no reason to replace it. cut the clamp off and slid it off and slid it back on the new pump.

bigmac
08-01-2009, 04:49 PM
My fuel pickup line was like new I saw no reason to replace it. cut the clamp off and slid it off and slid it back on the new pump.

No problem getting the old 1/4 inch hose over the 5/16 barb on the pump?

TX.X-30 fan
08-01-2009, 05:42 PM
No problem getting the old 1/4 inch hose over the 5/16 barb on the pump?

My hose was spread from the old pump, i have no idea how they did it at the factory but I did not cut the hose just slid it off. I thought it was strange how that rigid hose was flared on the pump end but it slid right of with a little testosterone.

André
08-03-2009, 06:09 PM
Help!
The pump died on my friend's 06 MCX.
Wich replacement should do the job?

He did install NAPA E2065 ,now run fine but very hard to start...
He doubled checked the hose but says it,s fine.
I wasnt there for the repair...
Any ideas?

bigmac
08-03-2009, 07:05 PM
I'd be worried that, for some reason, the system isn't holding pressure and as soon as the engine turns off, the rail is depressurized. Leak in the line somewhere, maybe, or perhaps a faulty pump. I'd try to diagnose that by putting a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail and seeing what happens to the fuel pressure at key-on and key-off.

rhsprostar
08-04-2009, 09:10 AM
Andre
BigMac is right it is most probably a leak in the connection from the pump to the top of the module. He should triple check those. Sounds like the prime is being lost each time the key is turned off. It has happened to quite a few people on this board who have changed out the pump. Each time it was the connections(fuel line of course not the electrical).

06' TT
08-04-2009, 07:55 PM
Just bought AC Delco ep356 to replace the stock carter fuel pump in my 06' 197 with MCX engine. Any advice or tricks I need to know for installation?

bigmac
08-04-2009, 08:12 PM
Be careful with the fuel line that goes from the old pump to the regulator inlet - you'll need to re-use it. Detach if from the old pump and reattach it to the new one.

boofer
08-05-2009, 12:20 PM
Has anyone used this Gates in tank fuel hose? I noticed a post somewhere that it was bought from Napa. It is about $17 per foot. It comes in a 5/16" ID. I was curious if it would fit the 1/4" fitting on the regulator. Also, how flexible is it?

bigmac
08-05-2009, 12:22 PM
Has anyone used this Gates in tank fuel hose? I noticed a post somewhere that it was bought from Napa. It is about $17 per foot. It comes in a 5/16" ID. I was curious if it would fit the 1/4" fitting on the regulator. Also, how flexible is it?

According to Stu, it will blow off the end of the barb.

stu
08-05-2009, 04:18 PM
Maybe it will work if its much more soft/compressible/squishy than the 5/16 ID fuel injection hose I got at autoparts store.

5/16 ID fuel injection hose would not blow off necessarily, but would surely leak, IMHO. You probably just can't get the larger inner diameter to uniformly compress around the 1/4 barb. There will be a fold.

stu
08-05-2009, 04:26 PM
I sure wish someone else would try to put 5/16 ID fuel injection hose on a 1/4 barb to either back me up or put me in the dog house.:dance:

By the way, the service mgr at my MC dealer asked how my fuel pump change went, and I told him it was fine but mentioned the submersible-hose issue. He said that if you get a year out of it you're ahead since 500+ bucks on a new, whole module. But I still want to put proper submersible hose in if we can make it work.

rudaire
08-06-2009, 11:10 AM
I haven't really looked at the unit, because I haven't had mine out.. But is it possible to replace the 1/4 inch barb with a 5/16? I realize it connects to the short 90 degree bend that ends in a quick disconnect fuel fitting outside the tank. Can that whole piece be re-made and sealed up in the top of the module? Is the factory 1/4 barb plastic or metal??

dave

boofer
08-06-2009, 02:54 PM
The 1/4" barb is plastic. When I replaced the entire module I forgot to notice if the new module had a different sized regulator connection since the hose is different (clear corrugated vs hard plastic).

06' TT
08-06-2009, 03:43 PM
Thanks for the tip bigmac, I'll let you all know how it turns out.

AussieMC
08-10-2009, 11:52 PM
G'day.
Looking for assistance with regard to the "possible" failure of my fuel pump. It seems that all the replacement pump model numbers (e.g. EP356), that are listed within this thread don't cross reference here down under. Is there any where like Skidim or an auto parts store that I may be able to order one online or get someone to send me one? After some research and realising the difficulty in locating a repalcement here, I thought I had better have one sitting on the shelf, so I don't have the boat sitting idle for weeks until I can locate and replace the pump. I would also like to note that I have almost 600hrs on my boat and I have run out of fuel twice, so I may never have a problem but I think it is a relatively cheap insurance policy to have a pump just in case.:)

bigmac
08-11-2009, 07:29 AM
G'day.
Looking for assistance with regard to the "possible" failure of my fuel pump. It seems that all the replacement pump model numbers (e.g. EP356), that are listed within this thread don't cross reference here down under. Is there any where like Skidim or an auto parts store that I may be able to order one online or get someone to send me one? After some research and realising the difficulty in locating a repalcement here, I thought I had better have one sitting on the shelf, so I don't have the boat sitting idle for weeks until I can locate and replace the pump. I would also like to note that I have almost 600hrs on my boat and I have run out of fuel twice, so I may never have a problem but I think it is a relatively cheap insurance policy to have a pump just in case.:)

If you can order from Amazon.com in the US, they have both the EP356 (http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-EP356-Fuel-Pump/dp/B000C9PCUC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1249989980&sr=8-2) and the E2044 (http://www.amazon.com/Airtex-E2044-Electric-Fuel-Pump/dp/B000EEX6IA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1249989932&sr=8-2).

AussieMC
08-11-2009, 05:36 PM
Thanks big mac, I had already looked to purchase from Amazon, but they only ship either pump to the US.

mallees
08-11-2009, 10:01 PM
Hi Shane, google is your friend. I too have been looking for a spare pump, and I found this place that will ship to the land of Aus. I haven't ordered one, yet but intend to soon. Shipping is only about US$26

http://www.oehq.com/index.cfm?showpage=utility/partsearch2.cfm&partno=EP356&vendor=ACD

AussieMC
08-12-2009, 03:56 AM
Cheers Mal,
I'll send you an email, but maybe we can both get one and combine shipping.

stu
08-12-2009, 02:47 PM
Just to get the submersible hose, I got another MC fuel pump module with a burned-up Carter fuel pump. Whole module was gonna be thrown away.

(a) the hose that comes with the Carter pump fuel module from MC is 1/4” on one end, and 5/16” on the other, and
(b) the aftermarket pumps have the same barb size as the Carters.

Hope this is helpful.

Stu



I think I've got some updated info.

Just to get the submersible hose, I got my hands on another MC fuel pump module with a burned-up Carter pump that was gonna be thrown away.

To harvest the ENTIRE hose, I had to destroy the barb on the burned-up Carter pump that came with the module I just picked. More on that below, but the this pump and my old Carter pump are identical, ("323 Made in USA"), with same sized barbs.

OK, in the 1st pic notice that the barb on my old Carter pump and the module barb are indeed different sizes. A 5/16" EFI hose fits perfectly on the Carter pump barb, while a 1/4" EFI hose fits perfectly on the module barb. You cannot IMO get a seal with a 5/16 EFI hose clamped on the module barb.

In the second pic notice that the harvested hose is set up for the different sized barbs on either end!

In the 3rd pic my original pump is on bottom, with the burned-up one I just picked up on top. The top hose is much more flexible and less likely to kink, but it is still heat welded on both ends, and you can't just pull it off.

It will be easier to reuse your old hose if it is like the one on the module I just picked up instead of like my old one. It's softer. To reuse it you can cut it, and go with a shorter hose, but the harvested hose seemed quite a bit shorter than my old hose was before I cut it in half -- and you need some extra in there -- so I cut the brass barb off the burned-up Carter pump I just picked up. Then I drilled the cut off barb from the inside till it started to spin inside the hose, then I crushed it a bit with pliers and was able to pull it out.

I hope this clears some things up. Thanks bigmac, rhsprostar, and other for your ongoing commitment to this cause. BTW, sorry about the overuse of the word "harvest." Great Neil Young album though!:)

mallees
08-12-2009, 09:34 PM
Cheers Mal,
I'll send you an email, but maybe we can both get one and combine shipping.
Sounds good to me.

TX.X-30 fan
08-13-2009, 09:04 AM
I still think the hose is somehow flared and not a different size. Possibly a little heat and then slide the correct size in that end.

rudaire
08-13-2009, 10:32 AM
I still think the hose is somehow flared and not a different size. Possibly a little heat and then slide the correct size in that end.

I think you're right. But I still cannot find a source for submersible 1/4 line. Only 5/16 and 3/8.
d

stu
08-13-2009, 02:33 PM
I still think the hose is somehow flared and not a different size. Possibly a little heat and then slide the correct size in that end.

You're exactly right, factory flared to different sizes. Heat would probably help.

JMann
08-13-2009, 02:52 PM
Speaking of fuel pumps I have a 1991 Prostar 190 with the 351. What model number fuel pump is this and where can I order one?
Thanks for the fuel pump help.

rhsprostar
08-14-2009, 09:41 PM
I think you guys have it right that they are the same size hose flared to different sizes at each end.
I can't believe that between all of us we can't find a source for that plastic hose.....
It's on my list for next week, i will keep you posted.
Nice work Stu thanks for the update. Lets get this hose issue sorted out and then we have it beaten!!!

06' TT
08-28-2009, 12:53 AM
Need some help guy's... I have an 06' 197 TT and the fuel pump went out. I purchased the AC Delco EP 356 per most of your recommendation. I didn't install it myself, I decided to leave it to a professional. He installed it and told me she was ready to go. Took it to the lake for a test, it started but was running very rough so I gave it a little gas. It died and wouldn't start again. Took it back to the shop and had him go at it again. He said that the pump runs but it's not taking. bottom line, he say's it won't work??? I picked it up and am going to try and fix it myself. Has anyone experienced this? Any tips or suggestions?

Thanks a lot,

Frustrated MC owner

bigmac
08-28-2009, 07:12 AM
Need some help guy's... I have an 06' 197 TT and the fuel pump went out. I purchased the AC Delco EP 356 per most of your recommendation. I didn't install it myself, I decided to leave it to a professional. He installed it and told me she was ready to go. Took it to the lake for a test, it started but was running very rough so I gave it a little gas. It died and wouldn't start again. Took it back to the shop and had him go at it again. He said that the pump runs but it's not taking. bottom line, he say's it won't work??? I picked it up and am going to try and fix it myself. Has anyone experienced this? Any tips or suggestions?

Thanks a lot,

Frustrated MC owner

I'd start by seeing what kind of hose the guy used to connect the new pump to the regulator, and how he secured the hose ends to those barbs.

bigmac
08-28-2009, 07:27 AM
I think you're right. But I still cannot find a source for submersible 1/4 line. Only 5/16 and 3/8.
d

I spoke with someone at Midwest Manufacturing, a fuel pump module re-builder. They tell me their distributor for convoluted in-tank fuel line is Power Signal Group. Tele. 800-722-5273. From looking at PSG website, my guess is that they get the fuel line from Delphi.

boofer
08-31-2009, 12:37 AM
Here's the Delphi hose in 8mm diameter which is 5/16". I am assuming this is an inner diameter. I have emailed them to verify and check on other diameters they might be able to get. Although I do not get a warm fuzzy from this web store, it does indicate that these hoses can be purchased by themselves.

Bigmac, how do you know that Delphi does not make a 1/4" hose? I am just curious. If this is true, then I might gander that it is a 5/16" hose used in our modules and shrunk (assume with heat) to fit the 1/4" barb.

http://www.racetronix.biz/mmWEBSTORE/Images/FuelTube.jpg
http://www.racetronix.biz/items.asp?Mc=DELPHI-E

bigmac
08-31-2009, 08:24 AM
Here's the Delphi hose in 8mm diameter which is 5/16". I am assuming this is an inner diameter. I have emailed them to verify and check on other diameters they might be able to get. Although I do not get a warm fuzzy from this web store, it does indicate that these hoses can be purchased by themselves.

Bigmac, how do you know that Delphi does not make a 1/4" hose? I am just curious. If this is true, then I might gander that it is a 5/16" hose used in our modules and shrunk (assume with heat) to fit the 1/4" barb.

http://www.racetronix.biz/mmWEBSTORE/Images/FuelTube.jpg
http://www.racetronix.biz/items.asp?Mc=DELPHI-E

I talked to a not-very-informed phone answering person who told me that they (Delphi) no longer make 30R10 hose and have gone to all PTFE/FEP. I am not totally confident of her level of knowledge-ness.

I'd be inclined to buy some of the 5/16 and experiment by heating the stuff up over a 1/4 inch dowel and see what happens. It makes more sense to me that it would be 5/16 and shrunk to 1/4 rather than risk splitting the PTFE by trying to get 1/4 inch hose over a 5/16 inch barb. Heat-shrink PTFE tubing is pretty common in the electrical cabling biz.

How long is the tubing in the OEM module? I'm guessing we'd need the 14 inch long stuff?



/

rhsprostar
08-31-2009, 11:03 AM
Nice find Boofer. Did anyone check to see if an autoparts place has them or can get them?
I will check a few around here.

wheeler
08-31-2009, 11:26 AM
Need some help guy's... I have an 06' 197 TT and the fuel pump went out. I purchased the AC Delco EP 356 per most of your recommendation. I didn't install it myself, I decided to leave it to a professional. He installed it and told me she was ready to go. Took it to the lake for a test, it started but was running very rough so I gave it a little gas. It died and wouldn't start again. Took it back to the shop and had him go at it again. He said that the pump runs but it's not taking. bottom line, he say's it won't work??? I picked it up and am going to try and fix it myself. Has anyone experienced this? Any tips or suggestions?

Thanks a lot,

Frustrated MC owner

I installed the AC Delco EP356 as a replacment on mine I re-used the hose that came with the fuel pump unit. I have not had any problems at all, boat runs fine. I would check to make sure there is not a kink in the hose, fitting loose, or wrong hose installed.

wheeler
08-31-2009, 11:29 AM
I talked to a not-very-informed phone answering person who told me that they (Delphi) no longer make 30R10 hose and have gone to all PTFE/FEP. I am not totally confident of her level of knowledge-ness.

I'd be inclined to buy some of the 5/16 and experiment by heating the stuff up over a 1/4 inch dowel and see what happens. It makes more sense to me that it would be 5/16 and shrunk to 1/4 rather than risk splitting the PTFE by trying to get 1/4 inch hose over a 5/16 inch barb. Heat-shrink PTFE tubing is pretty common in the electrical cabling biz.

How long is the tubing in the OEM module? I'm guessing we'd need the 14 inch long stuff?



/

Based on the hoses that I have gathered up from used fuel pump units, I have a tendency to think they "enlarged" one end to fit over the 5/16" fuel pump fitting....

wheeler
08-31-2009, 11:30 AM
You can boil some water, stick one end in the water for a while, lube up the 5/16" barb on the pump with some spit, or dishwashing soap or something...then slide the hose over it with some force.....It will go on without splitting.....

boofer
09-01-2009, 04:33 AM
Bigmac, is this PTFE/FEP okay for use in the tank? Maybe wheeler can measure his hose (no pun intended) to estimate the correct length.

I must admit that shrinking the hose would be somewhat odd, but if the stuff only comes in a 5/16" size then it would have to be shrunk. Although, it raises questions. Why is the regulator fitting a different size? It seems to me that 5/16" is the standard in this size range. Why would Carter "modify" a hose in such a critical part of the fuel system? That sounds like shoddy engineering. And, it does appear that they have modified a hose one way or the other; whether it is 1/4" enlarged to 5/16" or 5/16" shrunk to 1/4". The only other conceivable thing is that they had these hoses specially made with two different sized ends. But, from wheeler's pictures and from dissecting my old module (which had the non-corrugated hose), it seems undeniable that the hoses are one diameter and modified. Why are carter and MC so closed lipped about the design of this module? There is nothing cosmic about it.

I wonder if we can replace the regulator with one that has a 5/16" fitting.

I need to reply to the MC person I contacted. But, I cannot seem to get Outlook to include the email trail in a reply now. Anyone have any hints? I have unchecked the box that says "close original message on forward or reply."

bigmac
09-01-2009, 07:39 AM
Bigmac, is this PTFE/FEP okay for use in the tank? Maybe wheeler can measure his hose (no pun intended) to estimate the correct length.

I must admit that shrinking the hose would be somewhat odd, but if the stuff only comes in a 5/16" size then it would have to be shrunk. Although, it raises questions. Why is the regulator fitting a different size? It seems to me that 5/16" is the standard in this size range. Why would Carter "modify" a hose in such a critical part of the fuel system? That sounds like shoddy engineering. And, it does appear that they have modified a hose one way or the other; whether it is 1/4" enlarged to 5/16" or 5/16" shrunk to 1/4". The only other conceivable thing is that they had these hoses specially made with two different sized ends. But, from wheeler's pictures and from dissecting my old module (which had the non-corrugated hose), it seems undeniable that the hoses are one diameter and modified. Why are carter and MC so closed lipped about the design of this module? There is nothing cosmic about it.

I wonder if we can replace the regulator with one that has a 5/16" fitting.

I need to reply to the MC person I contacted. But, I cannot seem to get Outlook to include the email trail in a reply now. Anyone have any hints? I have unchecked the box that says "close original message on forward or reply."

Current state-of-the-art in in-tank fuel tubing appears to be PTFE or FEP. It's a flouropolymer, the same thing as teflon or gore-tex, and the same thing that Gates coats its 30R10 fuel line with to make it impermeable. Racetronix sells it with their high-pressure fuel pump systems. No idea why it's so hard to find, but I guess that repair of in-tank systems isn't commonly done, and is probably discouraged by the mfgrs.

Anyway, I ordered a few pieces of that stuff and will play around with it, see if I can shrink it down evenly to fit over a 1/4 inch tubing so that it will seal.

Nice find! thanks for the link.

wheeler
09-01-2009, 09:07 AM
I need to reply to the MC person I contacted. But, I cannot seem to get Outlook to include the email trail in a reply now. Anyone have any hints? I have unchecked the box that says "close original message on forward or reply."

You should have a "search" box at the top of outlook, or above "Arranged By:"

Click on each of your folders Deleted Items, Drafts, Inbox, Junk Email, Outbox etc and type in his name, email or subject each time and see if you cannot find the old email...

boofer
09-01-2009, 10:43 PM
Sounds good Bigmac. I got my fingers crossed. Might be nice to source the clamps to. I know it is possible to reuse these clamps, but I think they are one time use clamps.

Wheeler, the emails that I have with MC contain the email trail. I open up the latest and it has everything. But, when I select "Reply" the previous emails are missing. I have a blank page. I might have to just copy and paste the previous into a reply.

Did you all notice that this post has 7,700 views? And my "Fuel Pump 101" post has over 4,700 views. Call me stupid, but I think that indicates MC has a problem. I think they know it. I think we are getting....you know.

wheeler
09-02-2009, 09:29 AM
I agree about the "posts' thing. I do not think we are "whining"....we own great boats, everything else about my boat I love. I have fixed the fuel pump issue for now, and obviously have a cheaper fix for future problems with the pump that I see unavoidable.

Vinyl issues will not go away, but that is another post. The main thing is we have hopefully gotten a few more people back on the lake for $90 instead of $500+.....

What gets me is the dealer and MC is making a % on the over priced fuel pump unit.....which is faulty :confused:

boofer
09-03-2009, 03:32 AM
I hear you wheeler. I really wish that MC would have the balls to admit the problem.

I am having to deal with multiple cracks in almost all of my gauges.

wheeler
09-03-2009, 09:21 AM
There sure are a lot of gauge sets on ebay...may find that you can grab some a wee bit cheaper than from the dealer....

mallees
01-03-2010, 06:53 PM
Hi guys, I have an 04 X2 with an MCX, and while out in it on the weekend, it was running fine, cruising at about 18 mph with a couple kids kneeboarding, and then the engine just stopped. After a bit of diagnosing I have discovered that although I can hear the fuel pump running, I am getting almost no fuel into the fuel rail. If I turn the key on, the pump tries to charge the rail for about 10 secs (as normal). If I turn the key on and off a few times there is enough pressure for the engine to start for 1 second then it stops again.
Have any of you guys experienced these symptoms, is this the fuel pump issue or is it the pressure reg on top of the "fuel cell".

I have just ordered a EP356 from the States to rebuild my fuel cell, but if there is a chance that there is something else wrong, and I need to order other parts, then I need to do it asap.
It is the middle of summer over here in Australia, so I don't want to spend my vacation without my boat on the water.

Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

bigmac
01-03-2010, 07:20 PM
Pretty classic symptoms for a fuel pump failure.

Be careful with the tubing that connects to the EP356. AFAIK no one has found suitable replacement tubing yet, so you'll have to re-use it.

mallees
01-03-2010, 08:35 PM
Thanks Bigmac, I'll keep that in mind.
All I can do now is hope that USPS, live up to their 1-3 days guaranteed delivery. We are about 16hours in front of the place I ordered it from, (its 12:30pm Monday over here) so it wont get out until the early hours of Tuesday (my time).

mallees
01-13-2010, 10:22 PM
Update on my fuel pump issue, I have not been able to track the 2 EP356 pumps that I ordered from the USA, so I bit the bullet and bought a whole module so as I could get on the water. Installed the genuine module and it started up first kick and we put 5-10 hours on it last weekend.
Today, the EP356 pumps finally showed up and although they were both in ACDelco boxes, they are both different from each other, one has no brand marking on the pump, and the other has Walbro stamped on it. Strange!!

I am going to rebuild my old module and keep it at our cabin as a hot spare, And I got the 2nd pump for AussieMc, so he will have a spare pump.

Now, only 1 more day of work, then I have 2 weeks of heaven on the river in a Mastercraft.

Life just doesn't get any better that this.:D

rudaire
02-16-2010, 11:50 AM
Has anyone tried to order this stuff??

http://www.texloc.com/corrugated.html

Seems we could order the 1/4 inch and warm/stretch it over the 5/16 end. I haven't measured the tubing in my X-star, but seems this company could provide a replacement.

Also, I talked to a supply company in my city that swears it is no problem to source either a smooth or corrugated replacement, but I'd have to order bulk, which I've considered doing and selling the extras..

d

Pretty classic symptoms for a fuel pump failure.

Be careful with the tubing that connects to the EP356. AFAIK no one has found suitable replacement tubing yet, so you'll have to re-use it.

BrightonWake
02-18-2010, 06:06 AM
Hi Guys,

Massive thanks to everyone on this thread, it has made some interesting reading and we have learnt alot (i hope!).. We have a problem with a 2003 X2, in that the fuel pump is making a noise but not pumping, we have tried it in a can of fuel out of the boat and connecting it to a battery, nothing!
We are trying to find a suitable replacement in the UK, the old one has the following stamped on it:
323 Made In USA
5L09BTP Carter (could be 5L09BTR?)

So
1) is an ACDelco EP356 okay?
2) where can we get one in the UK?
3) is this one below from eBay okay as it seems to cross reference with the EP356 and can be delivered to the UK?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370332866320#ht_2326wt_1165

the latter seems cheap and is made by Rally??

Help please.........

bigmac
02-18-2010, 08:45 AM
Sizzler (http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/member.php?u=605) has had a lot of fuel pump trouble and created this thread. Read it, and consider sending him a PM. It might represent a simpler solution for you.

http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=30169&highlight=pump

TX.X-30 fan
02-18-2010, 10:24 AM
Has anyone tried to order this stuff??

http://www.texloc.com/corrugated.html

Seems we could order the 1/4 inch and warm/stretch it over the 5/16 end. I haven't measured the tubing in my X-star, but seems this company could provide a replacement.

Also, I talked to a supply company in my city that swears it is no problem to source either a smooth or corrugated replacement, but I'd have to order bulk, which I've considered doing and selling the extras..

d



I believe thats how the original is installed.

bigmac
02-18-2010, 11:31 AM
Cool find.

rudaire
02-19-2010, 03:58 PM
if someone can estimate the length I'd need for an 02 X-star (it's probably the same for all boats.. I doubt the tank height changes significantly...) I'd buy some and see how it goes..

dave

bigmac
02-19-2010, 04:14 PM
How long is the stock tubing?

rudaire
02-22-2010, 07:40 PM
How long is the stock tubing?

actually, that's my question.. My fuel pump isn't broken (yet).. I'm just trying to be prepared.

I was hoping someone who's experienced this failure and had their hands on the little plastic tubing could give me an estimate, and I'd order one to have on hand..

dave

rhsprostar
03-21-2010, 09:04 PM
Hi Guys, wow this thread has gone a long way since I started it. I have been running my pump for a couple of years now but am concerned about the piece of rubber fuel line i replaced the plastic one with. This find by rudaire looks really good. Anyone looked into it? I think it may be the answer to our problem!



Has anyone tried to order this stuff??

http://www.texloc.com/corrugated.html

Seems we could order the 1/4 inch and warm/stretch it over the 5/16 end. I haven't measured the tubing in my X-star, but seems this company could provide a replacement.

Also, I talked to a supply company in my city that swears it is no problem to source either a smooth or corrugated replacement, but I'd have to order bulk, which I've considered doing and selling the extras..

d

rhsprostar
03-22-2010, 08:30 PM
bump bump bump.....

95prostar
03-22-2010, 09:01 PM
does anybody have an aftermarket pump part number for the lt1 pump?

rhsprostar
03-23-2010, 09:18 PM
does anybody have an aftermarket pump part number for the lt1 pump?

I think the fuel pump on the LT1's was not an in-tank module. I could be wrong though. What year boat is it?

Sodar
03-23-2010, 09:46 PM
LT-1 fuel pumps are engine mounted on the port rear of the motor. Beyond that, I don't know.

rhsprostar
03-25-2010, 11:02 AM
bumpity, bump for the replacement fuel line info

rhsprostar
03-27-2010, 09:12 AM
OK, so I sent an email to Texloc and they forwarded it to an engineer in the tech department regarding compatibility of the corrugated hose and gasoline/ethenol.
I will keep everyone posted....

skyski
06-29-2010, 03:22 PM
Hello, on my 2007 X-Star with LY6 Engine is the fuel pump (carter 323 7C16B) after 500 hours broken. Which aftermarket fuel pump can I use?

rgardjr1
06-29-2010, 05:19 PM
Last week my friend and I were changing out the tins on our Harley Davidson Road Kings. His fuel pump had a piece of corrugated fuel line that looked an awful lot like the pictures that I've seen around here. I think he replaced his because I noticed one in his garbage can. It didn't dawn on me until too late that this might be what were looking for. He's got a 2001 Road King-I'll try to get a part number from him to see what he ended up with.

TallRedRider
07-04-2010, 11:07 AM
I did not read pages 6-15 or so.

My pump just went out.

Is the pump the same even for an 2006 8.1L engine?

I will have it apart in the next day or two, and will know for sure then. But it would be nice to know now if the replacement is the same to pop the new one back in.

SliderFighter
07-07-2010, 12:56 PM
I have a 2001 X-star and need to replace the pump. The NAPA E2065 / Advance E2044 / Delco EP356 part is close, but are all a little smaller than the one I pulled out and won't work for my application. The label on the "Big Daddy" Carter module shows: 71-299S, 23 K00, CGB 98-002. The actual fuel pump itself shows 2290A 291. Photos attached. Can anyone help me by providing a part number that will work?

TallRedRider
07-07-2010, 05:20 PM
I have a 2001 X-star and need to replace the pump. The NAPA E2065 / Advance E2044 / Delco EP356 part is close, but are all a little smaller than the one I pulled out and won't work for my application. The label on the "Big Daddy" Carter module shows: 71-299S, 23 K00, CGB 98-002. The actual fuel pump itself shows 2290A 291. Photos attached. Can anyone help me by providing a part number that will work?

The point of this thread is that Carter makes the pumps exclusively for Mastercraft and are very tight lipped about what aftermarket part number will interchange. So no one is going to be able to tell you, and it seems like these guys have tried for sure. I would try one of the recommended pumps and you will find they work fine. As long as the pressure and GPM specs are in line, then you should be fine. I actually used a Bosch pump that cross references with the EP356. Modern technology for sure...it also fits a 1985 Cutlass Supreme, IIRC. I have about 5 hours on the boat so far, and it seems fine.

SliderFighter
07-07-2010, 06:57 PM
TallRedRider,

Thanks for getting back so quickly. I guess I was unclear, so I'll try harder: The Airtex E2065 and E2044 are both shorter than the one I pulled out of my boat (description and picture in my last post). I suppose it's possible to modify the carrier to keep it in place, but I'm hoping that someone here can give me a DIFFERENT part number that will be closer in size to my original pump.

Dan2060
08-13-2010, 12:29 AM
Interesting. My fuel pump in a 04 xstar went out while at the lake this past weekend. Long story short, went to NAPA and found one the same length and diameter (use 65psi I believe). Line was kinked, so I did a quick fix at the local marine garage at the lake. Used "regular" fuel line 5/16 and put two screw down clamps on it and it ran fine. This was a temporary fix.

Now for a couple of questions: Is this pump adequate ( enough or not enough pressure, etc). What harm occurs if not?

Fuel line: I know I need submersible line. How long does this "regular" fuel line typically work in a submersed environment? Why can't I use 5/16 line and put to regular screw down clamps on either end?

amesgardner
08-13-2010, 09:42 AM
Thanks!!!!

TallRedRider
08-13-2010, 12:55 PM
TallRedRider,

Thanks for getting back so quickly. I guess I was unclear, so I'll try harder: The Airtex E2065 and E2044 are both shorter than the one I pulled out of my boat (description and picture in my last post). I suppose it's possible to modify the carrier to keep it in place, but I'm hoping that someone here can give me a DIFFERENT part number that will be closer in size to my original pump.

I know it has been a month now, but I should note that the paperwork that came with my Bosch pump specifically stated that they know that the pump might not be the exact size of the pump it replaced but assured that it would still work...and of course they said theirs was of the highest quality.

So I am not worked up at all over the pumps being slightly different size.

Dan2060
08-13-2010, 01:56 PM
help. see post 185

deminimis
08-13-2010, 03:26 PM
Regarding aftermarket submersible hose (30R10), as we all have discovered, 5/16" is what's readily available. The problem is the 1/4 barb at the regulator. I believe this could be handled in a couple of ways. One might try 1/4" Viton heat shrink tube over the barb (yea, not only a fire danger, but risk of melting your plastic barb if you are not careful) followed by as many sucessive layers of 5/16" Viton shrink tube until you end up with a Viton covered barb measuring 5/16" OD. Or, perhaps, just buy 1/4" ID x 5/16" OD Viton hose. Slip a piece of that over the barb then install the 5/16" 30R10 over that (appropriately clamped with a fuel injection clamp). Unfortunately the only hose meeting that spec that I've found in a short search comes in 25' lengths for $70+. Here's some for your viewing: http://www.amazon.com/Viton-tubing-ID-16-pack/dp/B003NUYBPY/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1281726906&sr=8-6

Viton has excellent ratings when it comes to chemical and fuel resistance. Just a thought.

I suspect someone, somewhere, sells it by the foot, but no time to search right now.

Dan, regular fuel line will fail. Clamping 5/16" line on a 1/4" barb may leak.

Dan2060
08-13-2010, 03:34 PM
thks deminimis.
Sounds like a new unit.

deminimis
08-13-2010, 03:39 PM
thks deminimis.
Sounds like a new unit.

I wouldn't say that. Do you still have the kinked hose? What if you cut off the section that went over the barb, reinstalled the section, and then installed the proper submersible hose over it (with a good FI clamp)? The old piece might make a good sleeve/adapter for the 5/16" hose. Napa, etc. can usually get the proper 30R10 hose in a day ($20/ft).

Dan2060
08-14-2010, 01:31 PM
that's what I'll do. I called Napa and can get it in a day. I would like to go boating tomorrow (summer is almost over!). I guess I'll try my luck with the current regular line setup that has been in the boat for a week.

Demnismis: What do you think about the pump I'm using? Napa p74111 for use in Ford and Chrysler applications. 18gph and 65psi

deminimis
08-16-2010, 12:19 PM
Man, I really don't know. The only reason I'm familiar with the Airtex E2044 is because of the hard work done by others before me. All I did was check automotive application for that pump (and some cross apps) and some others mentioned (the E2044 is used on Ford V-8s whereas the E2065 is used on 4-bangers). Your pump is listed for a 1994 Ford Escort with a 1.8 engine. It crosses to the Airtex E2065, which several have used on here without issue, but again, its a pump used for little engines, not V-8s. Whether that will prove to be an issue down the road, er waterway, is anyone's guess. For my piece of mind, I want a pump designed for V-8s as that's what we're running in our crafts.

Dan2060
08-16-2010, 01:35 PM
great point deminimis. I wish we could get the ratings online for the OEM part. I don't know why they are so tight lipped about this info other than the all mighty dollar.

As I was running this particular pump, I did not notice any hesitation when getting out of the hole or at top speed. The engine was smooth and powerful, therefore I suspect it is getting adequate fuel. My thought process could be wrong...

wheeler
08-16-2010, 08:32 PM
Regarding aftermarket submersible hose (30R10), as we all have discovered, 5/16" is what's readily available. The problem is the 1/4 barb at the regulator. I believe this could be handled in a couple of ways. One might try 1/4" Viton heat shrink tube over the barb (yea, not only a fire danger, but risk of melting your plastic barb if you are not careful) followed by as many sucessive layers of 5/16" Viton shrink tube until you end up with a Viton covered barb measuring 5/16" OD. Or, perhaps, just buy 1/4" ID x 5/16" OD Viton hose. Slip a piece of that over the barb then install the 5/16" 30R10 over that (appropriately clamped with a fuel injection clamp). Unfortunately the only hose meeting that spec that I've found in a short search comes in 25' lengths for $70+. Here's some for your viewing: http://www.amazon.com/Viton-tubing-ID-16-pack/dp/B003NUYBPY/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1281726906&sr=8-6

Viton has excellent ratings when it comes to chemical and fuel resistance. Just a thought.

I suspect someone, somewhere, sells it by the foot, but no time to search right now.

Dan, regular fuel line will fail. Clamping 5/16" line on a 1/4" barb may leak.

Not sure if it matters, but did you notice that the maximum working pressure for that line is 17psi???

These pumps that we have been posting about put out in excess of 60psi.

wheeler
08-16-2010, 08:35 PM
Man, I really don't know. The only reason I'm familiar with the Airtex E2044 is because of the hard work done by others before me. All I did was check automotive application for that pump (and some cross apps) and some others mentioned (the E2044 is used on Ford V-8s whereas the E2065 is used on 4-bangers). Your pump is listed for a 1994 Ford Escort with a 1.8 engine. It crosses to the Airtex E2065, which several have used on here without issue, but again, its a pump used for little engines, not V-8s. Whether that will prove to be an issue down the road, er waterway, is anyone's guess. For my piece of mind, I want a pump designed for V-8s as that's what we're running in our crafts.

When you cross reference the carter you get the ac delco ep356, when you cross reference the ac delco ep356 you get a airtex 2064 - 2065.

i have run the ac-delco for almost a year, boat broke down, i thought it was the pump again only to find out it was a relay switch, so now I am running the airtex 2065, have not had any troubles with either one......i now keep the ac delco in the glove box;)

deminimis
08-16-2010, 11:40 PM
Not sure if it matters, but did you notice that the maximum working pressure for that line is 17psi???

These pumps that we have been posting about put out in excess of 60psi.

Yea, its just to be used as a possible spacer to fit the 5/16 hose to the 1/4 barb. It would ne clamped, so not subject to the fuel pressure as if it was being used as fuel line.

Dan2060
08-17-2010, 08:16 PM
this is a great topic. I ran my boat today and had hesitation issues. I suspect the generic hose is leaking. I do not suspect that it is the pump, only because the in the initial fix the boat ran great at full throttle and all areas in between.

I picked up the 30r10hose at Napa today and the FI clamps. Hope this solves it. The only concern is that this hose is much thicker than the prior hose. I wonder if it will inhibit the ability of the outside container (that surrounds the fuel pump) to move up and down. If so, is this really a concern?

If my thought process is flawed in regards to the hesitation issue, any insight would be great.

Splash
10-08-2010, 10:32 AM
Today I've changed the fuel pump on my `07 RTP. Thanks for all your input here, it has been really helpful.

Just a question, did you read through the instructions on your new pumps? Mine clearly says not for marine or aircraft use.

I'm a llitle worried as the pump is inside the tank. Marine alternators and rest of engine "attachments" are spark protected due to gas condensation explosion danger in a closed motor compartment.
What about these automotive fuel pumps? Is my boat going to explode now? :confused:

rhsprostar
10-08-2010, 11:03 AM
Over two years now and no boom!:rolleyes:
It is still a fuel pump that is designed. to be used inside a fuel tank.
I believe that the reason for the caution on the pump is due to the fact that the part is not approved by the regulatory bodies governing both the marine and aircraft industry.
You are good to go, don't worry.;)

rhsprostar
10-08-2010, 11:07 AM
As far as pump specs go, I put(over two years ago) the 2065 in my boat with an LQ9 6.0.
The specs for the pump, no matter what application they go in, are as follows:
45 gph@90-95 max psi.
I checked with Enginenut, who at the time and may still work for Indmar and he confirmed that that pump had sufficent capacity for my 6.0 liter motor.

nmcjr
02-12-2011, 12:56 AM
Thinking of buying a spare. I've read all the threads and can't tell for sure, is the ep356 the right pump for an '02 LTR (330HP)? I'm 99% sure it is but I saw one post about a '99 and one about an '01 that said the pump wasn't the right size and so the mounting bracket wouldn't hold it in place right, so I'm not positive.

Also, I guess there's no new news on finding a replacement hose? I'd actually like to proactively replace my pump so I don't have to worry so much about the 1/4 tank rule but it appears there's some risk in damaging the hose and causing a bigger problem than I'm solving.

CantRepeat
02-12-2011, 08:40 AM
Thinking of buying a spare. I've read all the threads and can't tell for sure, is the ep356 the right pump for an '02 LTR (330HP)? I'm 99% sure it is but I saw one post about a '99 and one about an '01 that said the pump wasn't the right size and so the mounting bracket wouldn't hold it in place right, so I'm not positive.

Also, I guess there's no new news on finding a replacement hose? I'd actually like to proactively replace my pump so I don't have to worry so much about the 1/4 tank rule but it appears there's some risk in damaging the hose and causing a bigger problem than I'm solving.

I think the EP356 and the Napa NPF F74111 are both good numbers. The Napa list at $82 while the EP356 is $129 at Napa.

I'm going to pick up the F74111 and put in the boat tool box.


I do have a question for anyone that has done the swap. Since I have not taking my pump apart can someone list the tools need to do this job? I was thinking of putting a spare set in the boat so if I needed to do this on the water or at the ramp I'd have all the tools in the boat.

nmcjr
02-16-2011, 10:49 PM
I do have a question for anyone that has done the swap. Since I have not taking my pump apart can someone list the tools need to do this job? I was thinking of putting a spare set in the boat so if I needed to do this on the water or at the ramp I'd have all the tools in the boat.

I'll try to remember to document this when I do mine.

Edit remove: Also, I found this 1/4 fuel line....

Edit: now that I look at it closer I'm guessing its not for high pressure so probably not....

Wake2004
02-16-2011, 11:41 PM
Check out Fump 101 in maintenance section or here is what I did.

Here is some additional information that some might feel helpful:

1. I made this plate out of 1/8' aluminum to block off the tank while I was working on the fuel module. This is now stored in the tool kit in the boat so that if I need to replace the pump while on the water I can put the plate on to keep fuel from spilling out of the tank.
2. I found this nylon 5/16" fuel line hose at Napa part #730-5613 it comes in a 10' roll for around $15. I tried some other lines that seemed to kink too easily, this line will still kink as it took me 2 tries to get it in but it does seem to be more robust and since it is packaged in a roll it already has some bend to it.
3. I suggest cutting a 12" section of hose, this seems to be just enough to still be able to fit into the module. To flare the end to fit onto the pump side you can either boil the hose in water for 10min. or use a heat gun, after it is hot slide the tip of needle nose pliers into it and expand the pliers to create the flare.
4. The trick to not kink the hose while installing it into the module is to create the loop before you slide the pump and hose assembly into the cup of the module. If you try to create the loop after the pump is already installed you are more likely to kink the hose.
5. I tested this setup this past weekend fuel pressure held solid at 571/2 psi at all RPMs. Solid performance. I still need to find a new seal for my pump head, hopefully I will come across an old module before next season.

I cannot guarantee that this nylon hose is the correct stuff and if anyone would like to add to this I would appreciate it. I also have the APE hose on order and will keep it as back up once I get it.

TallRedRider
02-17-2011, 03:04 PM
I think the EP356 and the Napa NPF F74111 are both good numbers. The Napa list at $82 while the EP356 is $129 at Napa.

I'm going to pick up the F74111 and put in the boat tool box.


I do have a question for anyone that has done the swap. Since I have not taking my pump apart can someone list the tools need to do this job? I was thinking of putting a spare set in the boat so if I needed to do this on the water or at the ramp I'd have all the tools in the boat.

I put together a spare kit for my boat. I bought the fuel hose that was listed in the fuel pump 101 thread. One end is too big and will need to slide over the very end of the old fuel hose if the old one cannot be reused. A tight clamp will hold it on there just fine, IMHO.

nmcjr
03-02-2011, 08:07 PM
I did mine last weekend. My old one hadn't gone out yet, but I figured it was just a matter of time. I'll have a lot better piece of mind with the Delco pump, and probably won't even worry about the 1/4 tank rule so much any more. It was pretty easy, and I was able to re-use the factory tube with no issues. The only hard part is getting the pump and the braket seated upon reassembly inside the module, but even that wasn't that bad. I don't think I'd do it on the water because you will have the top of the fuel tank exposed so any waves and you'd be spilling fuel.

List of tools needed:
-3/16 allen for the module
-I replaced the gasket and bolts
-1/4 hose clamp
-flat screwdriver for clamps
-#2 phillips screwdriver for module
-spare 1.25" hose clamp for vent hose
-side cutters to remove factory clamp on the hose
-fuel line fitting tool
-very small flat screwdriver to remove electrical terminals
-bucket to place the module in to remove from boat (its full of fuel)

Gert
03-03-2011, 05:07 PM
Hi All,

Thought I should share my experience.

No probs for me with my boat (PS190 - 2004 - MCX). But because I could not fill the tank complete, and filling is going much to slow, I decided to take a look in my tank. Annoying too is that the engine is stalling with the tank 1/4 full.

Took the pump unit apart, and noticed a Bosch pump. I wrote down the numbers and it appears to be a Bosch # 0 580 453 507.
So, I decided to surf a little and look if I could find me some info for this pump. Surfing on the net I bumped into this tread. Reading a little, I see replacement pumps with 45-60 psi, what is 3 - 4 bar, and about 95 liter/hour = ± 24 Gallon/hour (?).

Can you imagine how surprised I was finding out that my (little) Bosch pump is only 22 psi (1,5 bar), and 95 liter/hour.
Actually I am worried now, reading all these horror stories. But strange enough, I have the boat with this pump for two years now, and absolute no problems..... starting cold/warm no problem, WOT no problem, never any hesitation....

This Bosch pump is normally installed in little four cilinder cars, with a whopping 1,400 cc displacement, and now feeding my MCX. :-)
Boat did 64 hours now with me, and maybe more with the former owner. Bought the boat with 480 hours in Austria.

I do not know if I shall replace my pump or not. Is here anybody who has fried some pistons due to fuel problems?

nmcjr
03-10-2011, 08:36 PM
If your pump only has 22psi, I would replace it.

As a side note: my re-use of the old hose wasn't a success. I must have a leak in that hose, I'm assuming where it connects to the pump. It is causing an extended crank problem, although it ran fine at full tilt. So, I've got to work on a plan B for that hose.

bturner2
03-11-2011, 06:49 AM
A sight update on recent pricing. I decided to finally pick up a spare Delco EP356 as a spare. Got it off Amazon for $103 shipped. Have the Airtex in the boat now which is working fine after replacing the original in July but didn't want to chance going out in the big lake or on vacation without a spare. My original hose seems to be working fine but wouldn't mind picking up a spare if anyone comes up with the definitive part number. Is anyone else carrying a spare tank gasket?

Gert
03-15-2011, 09:23 AM
Here is a picture of the Bosch pump I found in the tank (sorry, bad pic) :

http://www.celica.dds.nl/plaatjes/prostar/fuel/fp01190.JPG

Anyway, I scored a fuelpressure tester for low money over here in Holland. Luckily for my this unit fits Plug and Play on the fuelrail-schrader valve. So, as soon as the MCX is waking up from her wintersleep, I take her for a ride and watch fuel pressure.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360350578347&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.shop.ebay.com%3A80%2F__%3F_ from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm39%26_nkw%3D360350578347%2 6_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

I contacted my friend who owns an fuel service (pumps and injectors)company. He told me that this Bosch pump is probably delivering enough pressure and fuel for the MCX. Otherwise it was impossible that the engine was able to operate at WOT, without hesitation.
Every fuelpump is having an safetycircuit in it, that makes the circuit goes open in case of too much pressure. In other words, this Bosch pump is probably having its safetylevel somewhere at 4 or 5 bar. That appears to be used with 1 bar pressure pumps. With 3 bar pressure pumps, safety level is at about 8 bar.
First I did not believe him, but indeed, at the bottom of the pump, there is a small hole with a little ball in it. I could test it by arming the pump and block the output, but I don't like doing that.

On the other side, on ebay, those AC Delco pumps are going really cheap.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200557008206&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.shop.ebay.com%3A80%2F__%3F_ from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm39%26_nkw%3D200557008206%2 6_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
So, I did bite the bullit, and ordered one. As soon as it is on my desk, I will do some tests. I am very curious how long this pump can work without cooling. :-)

Then the problem with the 1/4 tank stalling engine. Hmmm, momently, I have the pump unit apart. So I put the filter in an bucket with fuel, and looked what happened.
Actually, the idea of this system looks good, this could work as an swirlpot, but strange things happened.
First, if I block the little black breather hose. The pot is not filling at all. So the bottom filter need some vent to breath.
Second, fuel level needs to be pretty high before the floater is high enoug to open the intake in the pot. And as soon as outside level is lower than the filter, the pot is soon empty??? I thought that this system with float and a intake what is going open and close should be able to keep a decent amount of fuel in the pot, but that is not the case.... hmmm.
Perhaps if I remove the float it is more easy to fill the swirlpot. Dunno, I have to look into it.

Gert

bturner2
03-16-2011, 10:00 AM
I'd watch that EBAY fuel pump. It's not a DELCO. If you read the description it's a RALLY that is compatible to a DELCO.

Gert
03-16-2011, 10:05 AM
Did some more testing and without the circular float disk, the "swirl" pot is filling more easy, as with disk. So, for the time being, it is not going to be reinstalled again.

Since I suspected that the lowest point of the fuel pump-unit is not reaching the bottom of the tank, I add a spacer between the top plate and the bracket. This way, the whole unit is dropping a little. I modified the sleeves too, so the bottom unit is sliding deeper into the tank. I tested it, and now I am sure the lowest point (filter) of the fuel pump-unit is hitting the bottom of the tank.
Also removed the strainer. Now without the strainer, the pump is dropping deeper in the tank, and without the disk, fuel is entering more easy into the pot.
So now, I hope I can get more fuel out of the tank. :-)

If it appears to be that all this is not working, the fuel pump-unit is easy accesable to make things back to stock config.

Anyway some better pics:

http://www.celica.dds.nl/plaatjes/prostar/fuel/fp03.JPG

http://www.celica.dds.nl/plaatjes/prostar/fuel/fp04.JPG

And a pic in the pot, the stock bracket is fitting like it is stock:

http://www.celica.dds.nl/plaatjes/prostar/fuel/fp02.JPG

Soon, we are making some more breather vents in the tank, so it should be possible to fill the tank complete, and shorten the time of actual filling it.

nmcjr
04-02-2011, 04:43 PM
OK, using the Napa 5/16" in tank fuel line (P/N H209) was the solution. It tightens over the 1/4" side just fine and solved my extended crank problem. My assesment is that the plastic line is basically a one-time use line, and really hose clamps don't fit well on it anyway. So, I'd consider the Napa hose a mandatory part of the swap.

André
04-02-2011, 05:43 PM
OK, using the Napa 5/16" in tank fuel line (P/N H209) was the solution. It tightens over the 1/4" side just fine and solved my extended crank problem. My assesment is that the plastic line is basically a one-time use line, and really hose clamps don't fit well on it anyway. So, I'd consider the Napa hose a mandatory part of the swap.

Did you post about your extended cranking problem after fuel pump change? If so,sorry i miss it.My buddy 06 MCX had the same problem and for him too the hose was the cause.
He use NAPA rubber hose and it last for a season before starting going bad.
But it's cheap ...and he's cheap too!

nmcjr
04-02-2011, 08:29 PM
Did you post about your extended cranking problem after fuel pump change? If so,sorry i miss it.My buddy 06 MCX had the same problem and for him too the hose was the cause.
He use NAPA rubber hose and it last for a season before starting going bad.
But it's cheap ...and he's cheap too!

Yes, I did post about an extended crank problem. The part number I listed was for the expensive in tank rated hose, $25/ft, but for the time it takes to do the project all over again, I'd say its worth it to be trouble free. The 12" section they sell you is just the right length.

Wake2004
04-09-2011, 03:53 PM
FYI, if you use Napa part #730-5613 you get 10' for $15 and it is easier to work with because it is packaged in a coil unlike the purchase buy the foot hose which is straight which is harder to bend without kinking. I tried the cut to length hose ($25/ft) first and failed to get it to bend without kinking. just my thoughts

rhsprostar
04-11-2011, 11:03 AM
I am pulling the boat out of storage in the next week or so. I will be pulling the replacement fuel pump that I installed two years ago to check the fuel line. I installed it with regular rubber fuel line and am curious to see how the line has held up. I have noticed a bit of the long cranking issue that others have experienced, which leads me to beleieve that the hose has degraded to the point that it is leaking slightly.
I will post pics and let everyone know the status....

I will reinstall with the specialized gates intank specific line.
Stay Tuned......

rhsprostar
05-13-2011, 11:03 AM
So.......After two years+ with the aftermarket fuel pump running with the regular rubber non in-tank fuel line, I finally got around to switching to the proper Gates intank rated line @$27/ft!

I had a bit of a extended crank issue last fall so I figured that the hose might have deteriorated to the point that it had some pinholes that might be cauing me to lose prime each time I shut the motor off.

Well the verdict is in and the regular line I took out of the module looked almost perfect.
They connection at the top of the hose was a little loose which was probably the cause of my extended crank problem.

I swapped out the line anyhow becuase I was already in there and put on a new fuel filter, again because I was already there.
Now it is possible that the hose has some pinholes but from only a visual inspection there did not seem to be any degredation to the hose.

I snapped a few pics of the swap and hose, but haven't had time to get them on my computer yet. If anyone is interested I can post them later.

rhsprostar
05-13-2011, 11:21 AM
Here are a couple of pics, old hose then new. I have more if anyone is interested...

ntidsl
05-13-2011, 12:52 PM
Still kicking almost a year later with a 2044 in my 05 197. i have the 2065 in my dash for a spare. takes 10 minutes to change...everytone should carry and extra along with an extra few belt, prop and snorkel mask, and a 12 pack of corona!!! makes everyday more relazing.

91ps190
05-17-2011, 05:56 PM
Here are a couple of pics, old hose then new. I have more if anyone is interested...


So the new hose is 5/16"?

rhsprostar
05-17-2011, 08:29 PM
So the new hose is 5/16"?

Yup 5/16th's......seems to work well....I made sure of a good connection at both ends.

NSXBill
06-17-2011, 10:45 AM
I have a 2003 Xstar with 350 MCX, and had the died while idleing thing happen to me this weekend. My pump has the same 71-333s carter numbers that you have, and my pump MC part number is 155193 according the chart that boofer referenced in another thread (http://207.170.215.108/awweblive/AwwebStore/OnlineDoc/Part%20numbers/FUEL%20MODULE%20MATRIX%2099-07.pdf).
Did you use the ACDelco EP356 pump that was mentioned earlier in this thread. So far every one but you has had a different MC part number according to boofers chart than what my boat was calling for. I am just trying to confirm that the EP356 pump works in my fuel module also. Thanks for your help

Can someone pm me the pdf chart referenced above or send a good link. I would love to see what mine is in the reference sheet and can't open the link.
Thanks,
Bill

etnovass
06-23-2011, 06:51 PM
a bump for a great thread. i have a 06 x-45 the quit running last weakend. the fuel pump went out. i almost bough the pump from mastercraft but i found this thread frist. i intsall the Airtex E2044 just now and the boat fired up and is running great. im not sure if this pump is going to be enough for the 8.1 so im going to put the boat threw its paces this weekend. the pump cost me $79. thank you all

rhsprostar
06-23-2011, 08:00 PM
Bill

The 2044 will work fine for your application.

When you replace just the pump and not the whole module you don't have to worry about boat specific part numbers.. The difference is that each boat has a different shape gas tank and when you replace the whole module you have to make sure that you get the proper size module for your specific tank. When you are just replacing the pump you reuse all of the module components and therefore do not need to worry about the specific module numbers.
In other words an mcx is an mcx is an mcx, no matter what boat it is in. The actual fuel pump is the same across the board.

Hope that makes sense.



Can someone pm me the pdf chart referenced above or send a good link. I would love to see what mine is in the reference sheet and can't open the link.
Thanks,
Bill

epnault
06-24-2011, 10:23 AM
Can someone tell me what size tool I need for the fuel line couplers? I was looking at Napa and they have one tool that works on 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" & 3/4" Fuel & AC Lines. Wondering if any of these sizes match

mcmx2
06-24-2011, 10:26 AM
I do not remember the size of the fuel line tool but I believe thay are color coded. It is the blue one.

06x2
06-24-2011, 12:43 PM
After reading all this I'm still a bit confused what part number do I need to order for a 06 x2 with a mcx canadian napa number or equalivant. Would love to buy a spare thanks

rhsprostar
06-25-2011, 08:45 PM
After reading all this I'm still a bit confused what part number do I need to order for a 06 x2 with a mcx canadian napa number or equalivant. Would love to buy a spare thanks

Napa e2065 (canadian part) will work and fit perfectly. There are a few cheaper alternatives but this one is confirmed so is it worth it to save $25?

A word of caution though. If you are still running the original pump, it's not IF your pump will fail it's WHEN. They will all fail eventually with the factory setup from those years....

You may want to swap it out for peace of mind. It could easily ruin an outing, weekend or even vacation.........

TallRedRider
06-25-2011, 11:43 PM
a bump for a great thread. i have a 06 x-45 the quit running last weakend. the fuel pump went out. i almost bough the pump from mastercraft but i found this thread frist. i intsall the Airtex E2044 just now and the boat fired up and is running great. im not sure if this pump is going to be enough for the 8.1 so im going to put the boat threw its paces this weekend. the pump cost me $79. thank you all

I asked (I believe more than once) about whether or not the pump is the same for the 8.1. I never got an answer. I finally just gambled and got one that crossreferenced with the Airtex 2044 (it was a Bosch, as I think they have a repuation for a bit higher quality...at least according to one friend). It worked great until I sold the boat 8 months later.



A word of caution though. If you are still running the original pump, it's not IF your pump will fail it's WHEN. They will all fail eventually with the factory setup from those years....



As I understand it, the same defect still exists, even when you replace the pump. You will still have a fuel pump that is sitting high and dry whenever you run the tank low and it will overheat and die a premature death. Changing the pump just gives a new pump a chance to suffer the same death. Is there a reason to believe and new pump is more resistant to this?

bigmac
06-26-2011, 08:36 AM
The design of the in-tank pump is indeed the root cause of the the frequent failures of MasterCraft fuel pumps, but I think the problem was exacerbated by the poor quality of the Carter pumps they were putting at the heart of the device from about 2001 to 2005. My understanding is that they switched suppliers for 2006.

The problem is that the pumps are running dry because of lack of fuel to pump when the fuel gets below a certain level, or that fuel tank debris is clogging the fuel filter when it has to filter below about 1/4 tank, and that limits fuel flow. The pump needs fuel to lubricate and cool or the impeller fries. In either case, the ability of the pump itself to tolerate running dry is likely to be a contributing factor as to whether or not it fails and how often.

We won't know for awhile, I guess, until we see a statistically significant number of failures of all these user-installed Delco/Airtex/NAPA pumps and we can see how the bell-shaped curve is shaping up. That took several years for the original pump. If these aftermarket pumps are better, it may be several more years before we can draw any meaningful conclusions as to longevity. Maybe they will even hold up for a period of time that begins to represent a reasonable failure interval. Maybe the Carter pump was the whole problem.

As far as I know, MasterCraft hasn't changed the design of the in-tank fuel pump system, but maybe they've change the parts suppliers. Again, we won't know for a few years, but even with so many people tuned in to fuel pump problems, I sense that we're seeing fewer failures in the 2006-and-later MasterCraft OEM fuel pumps.

The thing I'm curious about is whether or not using an aftermarket higher-quality fuel pump will allow users to forego MasterCraft's absolutely absurd "fix" for their problem -- recommending never letting the fuel level get below 1/4 tank. What a ridiculous solution.

deminimis
06-27-2011, 07:02 PM
Swapped mine out today with the Airtex. Flex hose was clear (urethane colored). Was able to reuse it, so that was a bonus. Easy swap. Removing and reinstalling the 12 socket head screws took the most time.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-y3xUZSejPG8/TgkpQv_oPRI/AAAAAAAAA9w/co4TT8_uYgQ/s640/IMG_20110627_134024.jpg

krutzmart
07-05-2011, 11:38 AM
And I was seconds away from the pay now click when I thought to myself *** 500.00 for a fuel pump just doesn't seam right...
Gonna pick up a 2044 Airtex for 80.00 buck and try my luck.
The info on this website is a true blessing. I'd love to buy you all a beer or the drink of your choice...**** I could buy you guys a couple of rounds for the money you saved me.
THANKS
Oh I read every page. and every page on every other fuel pump related thead on here. A little concerned as always prioir to doing something new, but looks pretty straight foward after reading all of this.

deminimis
07-05-2011, 11:44 AM
The 2044 fed the 350 MCX all weekend without a hiccup.

krutzmart
07-05-2011, 11:49 AM
Sweet

was the swap out a painless as it look in the forum ?

deminimis
07-05-2011, 12:00 PM
Yes, but I got lucky as I was able to reuse the flex hose. If you have the same hose (and after you carefully remove the single-use hose clamp), you might use a hair drier to soften the hose slightly to allow it to come off the barb easier. If you have the other type of hose that doesn't do well with this swap, invest in the proper in-tank hose. My X-tool did not work on the fuel line disconnect, so ended up using the blue one here:
http://www.lislecorp.com/uploads/products/th_39890c.jpg

krutzmart
07-05-2011, 12:16 PM
Your talking about dis connecting the in-tank hose. It sounds like it can be cut off and reused. I was planning on replacing but havn't tested pump to be sure thats my problem but, gonna replace it anyway as everyone seams to have problems with the carter pump.

deminimis
07-05-2011, 12:19 PM
Fuel feed hose needs the blue tool (or similar -The orange "foreskin" covered hose that you see laying right on top of the tank). The in-tank hose in my above pic might need the hair drier. Sorry about the confusion.

krutzmart
07-05-2011, 12:26 PM
Got it. Thanks for the tip.

I'm not too much of a man to stop and ask for directions when I'm Lost.

Gonna get that tool and my new pump from autozone 2044 Airtex, 1 ft of the SAE 30R10 submersible line (just in case ) 5/16, I'll try to reuse in tank line, got the heat gun and hair dryer ( the wifes ) to soften the in tank hose.
AND GO TO TOWN....

deminimis
07-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Heat gun might be way too hot. It didn't take much with the hair drier. I commandeer the wife's old hair dries for the shop (they get lots of use).

krutzmart
07-05-2011, 12:31 PM
Got it. It has 2 levels but your right. It gets hot, it's a heat gun.
I'll grab the wifey's hair dryer as recomended

Thanks again

NSXBill
07-05-2011, 12:59 PM
I changed to the AirTek E2044 in my 2001 PS209 about a week ago and finally lake tested last weekend and it did fine. I bought the 8" corregated black hose noted in another thread in case I needed it. However, like others, I CAREFULLY removed the single use clamp from the pump and re-used my smooth original fuel line. Reusing the line is the key becasue then you don't have to mess with the clamp on the regulator side of the line at all.

I think if I had simply cut the line off a the pump and tried to re-use, it would have been too short and would have kinked. It was quite stiff.

Also, for the external fuel lines, my system had the return line, so I had to use two different size removal tools. I bought a set of about 10 of them for $10 from Advance Auto Parts when I bought the AirTek pump. The pump was $80. I also bought a new filter and gasket ahead of time from MC. I cleaned and reused the bolts/washers using a little Hondabond (silicone).

deminimis
07-05-2011, 01:18 PM
Approx $30 for the Airtex pump here: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php Search 1992 Ford Crown Victoria. Heck, they even have the Bosch one for only $78.

krutzmart
07-05-2011, 02:07 PM
I just picked up the pump at autozone.
After looking at the pump. Why cant I just pull out manifold for pump and never unhjook the fuel line to the injectors ?
Looks like I may be able to change without unhooking the orange fuel line outside of tank ?

NSXBill
07-05-2011, 02:16 PM
I just picked up the pump at autozone.
After looking at the pump. Why cant I just pull out manifold for pump and never unhjook the fuel line to the injectors ?
Looks like I may be able to change without unhooking the orange fuel line outside of tank ?

You MAY be able to do that. Mine didn't really have a lot of slack in the orange lines. The tools make it pretty easy to remove the lines though. You'll find that you have to really move the unit around a lot...turn it over to get a good angle to R&R the pump, etc. Plus this thing hold quite a lot of fuel that you may dump all over the place. I'm sure I would've spilled fuel all over several times if I had not remvoed the unit and emptied it. It just makes the job a WHOLE LOT easier with the small effort to unhook and remove the unit to work on it. HTH.

deminimis
07-05-2011, 02:17 PM
It would be a pain to work on it with the orange fuel line still attached, but suspect you could do it. There really isn't much to unhook (vent "T", a couple of color-coded connectors and the fuel line). Twisting and whatnot that will accompany swapping the pump while the fuel line is attached may compromise the quick connect and/or the seals/rings. That little $3 plastic tool makes it come off in a second (stores nicely in your glovebox with your spare pump), so I'd strongly rec removing it instead of risking tweaking it.

krutzmart
07-05-2011, 03:12 PM
Just picked up the 3 doller tool so I can remove it and save my brain cells from the gas fumes.

Thought about and then thought about it twice so..... figured better not F around and have what I need.

krutzmart
07-05-2011, 04:10 PM
ANYONE Torq Specs on the module(14 allen bolts) after fuel pump replacement
I thought I read Inch/LBS but dont know if I saw a number ?

krutzmart
07-05-2011, 04:21 PM
45 in/lbs on the module torq specs. Just found this and it was helpfull
Thanks Boofer
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=25391