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cbryan70
07-09-2008, 12:49 AM
Looking to buy a nice camera as a gift. Want to keep it under 1000. Preferably in the 600 to 800 range. What should i be looking at? Want it to take pictures quick and have nice quality. Also would like to beable to have some sort of expanding capabilities with lenses for nicer pictures and close ups

djhuff
07-09-2008, 09:20 AM
dpreview.com

great site with all the information you could possibly imagine. 600-800 will get you a pretty nice camera.


psst... I like Nikon's, but that's almost as bad as starting a boat war on wakeboarder.com

cbryan70
07-09-2008, 10:22 AM
bump...thanks for the site

chudson
07-09-2008, 11:01 AM
Here's a couple of more places to check out!!!

http://www.icraveit.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=0

http://www.refurbdepot.com/

Gonzo
07-09-2008, 11:21 AM
I always wanted a Cannon XTI with a zoom.... Cant afford it right now though.

Maristar210
07-09-2008, 11:47 AM
Bigmac should be along shortly but I am going to buy a Nikon D40 with the extra zoom lens for close up shots.

I asked all the questions and for a set up in the range you are looking for it is a great value IMHO.

Good Luck !!!!

bigmac
07-09-2008, 11:50 AM
Looking to buy a nice camera as a gift. Want to keep it under 1000. Preferably in the 600 to 800 range. What should i be looking at? Want it to take pictures quick and have nice quality. Also would like to beable to have some sort of expanding capabilities with lenses for nicer pictures and close ups


Lots of options in that price range. The biggest question is whether you want a digital SLR (interchangeable lenses, more flexible, better image quality, but more complex) or a fixed-lens point-and-shoot. In the dSLR category, the Nikon D40 is a really outstanding value at less than $500 (with lens).

B&H Photo (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/471716-REG/Nikon_25420_D40_SLR_Digital_Camera.html)

Reviews:

DPR (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/)

Ken Rockwell (http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d40.htm)

You might consider the Nikon D60 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2FRootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=d60+nikon&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2FRootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=submit) as well, although general consensus is that the D40 is more bang-for-buck.

Maristar210
07-09-2008, 11:52 AM
Like clockwork, Bigmac is here is show us the way.

Hey H-

Lets talk Maristar fuel pumps instead, whadda ya say? :D

cbryan70
07-09-2008, 12:25 PM
what are the advantages and disadvadvantages between the two types? I beleive i would like to go with interchangable lenses.

cbryan70
07-09-2008, 12:36 PM
http://www.refurbdepot.com/productdetails2.cfm?Product_ID=5956 i have read on here that a few of you have the rebel. Why is this one so cheap is it a refurbed unit? If it is a refurb is it a big deal?

cbryan70
07-09-2008, 12:39 PM
ok after reading yes it is refubed, is this place good to buy from? Anyone have any experience with them?

Maristar210
07-09-2008, 12:50 PM
what are the advantages and disadvadvantages between the two types? I beleive i would like to go with interchangable lenses.

Unless you are a professional with a dozen different lenses, it won't matter.

stuartmcnair
07-09-2008, 01:38 PM
I sense the wrath of BigMac coming on....

If you have a Sam's membership they have an incredible deal on a Nikon D60 kit with two lenses for around $700. It's a steal.

bigmac
07-09-2008, 02:20 PM
ok after reading yes it is refubed, is this place good to buy from? Anyone have any experience with them?

Look at this link at resellerratings.com (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/refurbdepot) -- draw your own conclusions. Don't forget to scroll down and read the individual buyer reviews. Beware that many of the glowing reviews are plants from company shills.

Compare their rating to that of B&H Photo (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/B_H_Photo_Video_Pro_Audio), for example. I've been buying stuff from B&H for almost 30 years. They are the generally acknowledged "MasterCraft" of the camera reseller industry. Nobody more honest or reliable IMHO.

bigmac
07-09-2008, 02:21 PM
Unless you are a professional with a dozen different lenses, it won't matter.

Dude!!! Are you intentionally trying to piss me off???


;)

Gonzo
07-09-2008, 02:27 PM
Sams does have some deals,

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=351011&pCatg=9740

new xti with lense 649... 50 bucks more then the refurb.

cbryan70
07-09-2008, 02:32 PM
educate me man.

bigmac
07-09-2008, 02:57 PM
educate me man.


Can....not....resist....!

A digital SLR is completely different than a typical point-and-shoot. The image sensor is larger, therefore (generally) sharper and with less image noise, plus, the camera itself is FAR more responsive (negligible shutter lag), and the autofocus faster and more accurate. The ability to change lenses is significant because never does one size fit all your photographic needs. The trade off is convenience, and this manifests itself as size and weight. Many/most point-and-shoots will fit in your pocket. The question you as buyer have to answer on behalf of the recipient, is whether you want convenience and snapshots vs excellent image quality and maximum flexibility.

Within the dSLR category, there are lots of choices, and the question becomes one of money. You can spend $500 on a D40, or $5000 on a D3. The difference, as you ascend the scale, is improving image quality, features, durability, and sophistication, but I guarantee you that a Nikon D3 doesn't give you images that are 10 times better than a D40. They're better, but not 10 times better.

Do not fall into the resolution trap. More megapixels does not mean better image quality. In fact, often higher pixel count sensors have WORSE image quality. Six megapixels is more than enough, unless you routinely print your photos at 20x30 inches. For images 11x17 or smaller, more than 6 megapixels is, in large part, useless.

Nikon and Canon are the big players in the digital SLR world, and both are excellent. I happen to be a Nikon guy. Canon is good too. Farther down the scale is Sony-Konica-Minolta (they keep getting bought out), Olympus, and Pentax. The bigger players have wider lens selections, more accessories, and are more likely to stay in the game (Olympus already screwed me over once - I won't let them do it again).

Ski-me
07-09-2008, 03:56 PM
Sam's Club -- I saw the D80 last night $999 (Package).

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=375409&pCatg=9740

The D60 is also available for $674 (Package)

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=386768&pCatg=9740

Perhaps someone or Bigmac can tell you the differences....

bigmac
07-09-2008, 04:23 PM
Perhaps someone or Bigmac can tell you the differences....

The D80 is pretty old news. IMHO, the D40 is pretty close to equivalent at half the price. The D90 should be along in the next few months.

Generally speaking, I don't think Ken Rockwell is a credible force in the photography industry, but in the case of this review (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/d200-d80-d70-d50-d40-5d-xti.htm), I think his observations are pretty much accurate.

chudson
07-09-2008, 05:04 PM
ok after reading yes it is refubed, is this place good to buy from? Anyone have any experience with them?

I got a laptop and a friend got a big screen Samsung and no problems and also heard someone on here got a DVD and have had a long time and was satisfied.

Ski-me
07-09-2008, 05:19 PM
I walked down the hall to our camera expert who LOVES Nikons. I asked him the differences.....

Confirming Bigmac....the D80 is older. The D40 is a decent camera with about 6 MP but the D40X has about 10 MP.

The D60 is the newest of the 4 cameras and our expert said that the D60 has the better processor of the bunch (newer). He said it has the "Expeed"

Here is a nice comparison of all four models ---

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=nikon_d40%2Cnikon_d40x%2Cnikon_d60%2Cnikon _d80&show=all

cbryan70
07-09-2008, 07:49 PM
so being a Nikon guy you would go with the d40? Basically it is between this and the rebel.....what price range should i beable to nab these things for?

bigmac
07-09-2008, 08:02 PM
Yes, if my budget was under $1000 and I needed to get the camera within the next couple of months (couldn't wait for the D90) -- I'd get the D40. You can get a D40 with the very good 18-55mm kit lens for $469, no sales tax (unless you live in New York state) and free shipping.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/471716-REG/Nikon_25420_D40_SLR_Digital_Camera.html

If you want to spend more than that, next step up is the D60 (look here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2Fworkaround.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=d60&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2Fworkaround.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=submit)). The Expeed processor does make a difference, and note that the inclded lens or lenses now incorporate image stabilization (VR). Even with two VR lenses in the kit, you're still under $1000).

Next significant step up in image quality after that would be the D300 at $1800 - $2200. (depending on lens). THAT is a truly superb camera.

If the decision is between the Nikon and the Rebel, do go somewhere where you can play with them a little. Canon makes good cameras, but I have never cared for the ergonomics, menu layout, and controls. YMMV.

The decision between D40 and D60 in the under $1000 category would depend on the giftee's level of photography interest and capability. These cameras will all function as point-and-shoots for someone who doesn't understand photography, but using them thus wastes a lot of their potential as creative tools. Not that there's anything wrong with that....just sayin'...

ChrisConn Inc.
07-09-2008, 08:49 PM
I shoot mostly Football and Baseball and a few other sports. I've never shot with a Nikon, but my Canon puts out some very nice images.

Tony

http://homepage.mac.com/customaction/.Pictures/Havasu%206:24-6:27/SK8U0038.JPG

cbryan70
07-10-2008, 12:12 AM
Bigmac, i have found out that they have some nikon lenses with autofocus on them for a newer 35mm i beleive. Not sure how "new". Would those work with the d40?

bigmac
07-10-2008, 12:55 AM
Bigmac, i have found out that they have some nikon lenses with autofocus on them for a newer 35mm i beleive. Not sure how "new". Would those work with the d40?Virtually all of Nikon's newer zoom lenses work fine with the D40.

There are two methods of autofocusing a lens - 1) the older method Nikon used which incorporates a motor in the camera body with a screw drive that engages the focusing ring and 2)their AF-S system which incorporates a motor in the actual lens itself and the controls are electronic. The D80 and above work with both systems. The D40 and D60 only autofocus with lenses that have the motor built into the lens. So the D40 and D60 can use any lens labeled "AF-S"...which is the vast majority of the zoom lenses in Nikon's current catalogue. Older lenses, and many of their non-zoom lenses won't autofocus on those two camera bodies. They will still manually focus. IMHO, it could be an issue for professional photographers. For amateurs like you and me, it's not. My camera will focus with both, but I virtually never use any non-AF-S lenses (even though I have a couple). AF-S is faster, smoother and quieter than the older lenses and are definitely superior in their function.

cbryan70
07-10-2008, 11:38 AM
went and looked at the two last night and the guy was talking about how the rebel has 9 focus points and the d40 has 3 or somthing. what the hell does that mean? Thank you for all your help bigmac.

bigmac
07-10-2008, 12:14 PM
went and looked at the two last night and the guy was talking about how the rebel has 9 focus points and the d40 has 3 or somthing. what the hell does that mean? Thank you for all your help bigmac.
It's the number of points that the autofocus system uses to track the subject. 3 vs 9 is not important in this level of consumer camera.

Don't obsess over numbers. Between the two, buy the one that feels best in your hands and that you find easier to use.

cbryan70
07-10-2008, 01:10 PM
.....................

cbryan70
07-10-2008, 01:10 PM
well obviously i like the d40 price better. I saw one where it was prices almost the same with a second lense. IF i decided to go with the D40 i may look at a second lense but i have no concept of what the heck the numbers mean on the lense. Im assuming the camera will be used mostly to capture children playing, some water skiing...when i make her bring it, and then whatever else she likes. I do know she likes taking closeups of flowers and such.

ChrisConn Inc.
07-11-2008, 03:06 AM
Take a look at the new Popular Photography issue. There is a write-up on all these DSLR's. Interesting read if you want to compare cameras in the price range you're looking at.

Tony

cbryan70
07-15-2008, 11:27 AM
Got the camera....went with the D40. Got it at an amazing price. Now that i have played with one....i may be looking to buy another one for myself, depends if i can land one at the same price

bigmac
07-15-2008, 01:21 PM
Got the camera....went with the D40. Got it at an amazing price. Now that i have played with one....i may be looking to buy another one for myself, depends if i can land one at the same price

Congratulations on the camera. Good choice IMHO.

Consider some good photo editing software. I'm a big fan of Photoshop Elements for $80. You can download a free trial from Adobe.com.

cbryan70
07-15-2008, 01:26 PM
Well if i end up buying one i may look into it. As of now tho its all just learning, def fun to play with and tooks nice pictures. Nice that the older lenses work with it just in man focus as well....

brucemac
07-15-2008, 01:37 PM
nice choice. i wish i would had waited a year or two. i have the D80 and although i love it, i wish i had the newer one with the steady shot technology. helps a lot on the boat. oh well. it's been great so far. post some pics when you have some time.

cbryan70
07-15-2008, 01:46 PM
does the d40 have the steady shot? lol

RK@UST
07-15-2008, 01:54 PM
I would sell my Canon 30D, like new all in box with original stuff.

Canon Image stabilized zoom lens ( purchased separately)
$950 anyone interested

bigmac
07-15-2008, 02:01 PM
nice choice. i wish i would had waited a year or two. i have the D80 and although i love it, i wish i had the newer one with the steady shot technology. helps a lot on the boat. oh well. it's been great so far. post some pics when you have some time.


Neither Nikon nor Canon use "steady shot" in any of their dSLR camera bodies...it's built into some of their camera lenses instead, but NOT the usual kit lenses for the D40. You CAN buy it for any Nikon dSLR in other non-kit lenses - any Nikon lens that has VR as part of its name.

Nikon VR lenses (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2Fworkaround.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=vr+nikon+lens&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2Fworkaround.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t)

VR doesn't help much at all in a boat, IMHO -- the frequency and amplitude of the motions caused by waves is too high for VR or IS to accomodate. I have it on my 70-200 zoom lens and never use it. It slows down focusing, doesn't help much in continuous shooting. Much better to use a higher shutter speed. Any shutter speed faster than about 1/800th second will freeze motion far better than ANY type of "steady shot" technology.

M-Funf
07-15-2008, 02:05 PM
I saw a D40 "package" deal on Amazon with a 18-55mm lens and a 55-200 lens for just over 600 bux. Looked like a pretty good setup.

Q's: Can auto focus be turned OFF?
How fast do they turn on? My current camera is too slow.
How fast will they focus and shoot? Again, my current camera takes about 2 seconds on a good day...WAY too long and I miss shots all the time.
How quickly can I take successive shots? (taking finger off shutter button and pressing again...)

cbryan70
07-15-2008, 02:13 PM
yes, quick, quicker then 2 sec, depends on the mode you are in

cbryan70
07-15-2008, 02:15 PM
should bebale to find that package with a linese for 479 on bigmacs website

P-hat_in_Cincy
07-15-2008, 02:18 PM
Nikon D60 package on beachcamera.com for $849. Nikon D60 DSLR w/ 18-55 VR, 55-200 VR (vibration resistant) & 2 Nikon School DVDs + Free Sandisk 2Gb Ultra 2.

Thinking about it ourselves.

bigmac
07-15-2008, 02:47 PM
I saw a D40 "package" deal on Amazon with a 18-55mm lens and a 55-200 lens for just over 600 bux. Looked like a pretty good setup.

Q's: Can auto focus be turned OFF?
How fast do they turn on? My current camera is too slow.
How fast will they focus and shoot? Again, my current camera takes about 2 seconds on a good day...WAY too long and I miss shots all the time.
How quickly can I take successive shots? (taking finger off shutter button and pressing again...)

The D40 goes from Power Off to first shot in less than 0.1 second. There is virtually NO shutter delay - you push the button and it takes the shot right now. The amount of time it takes to focus is quick, but how quick depends on lighting. Much faster than a point-and-shoot.

If you're shooting in JPEG-fine mode it will shoot at 2.6 frames per second and do so continuously until the memory card is full.

Autofocus can be turned off.

brucemac
07-15-2008, 04:06 PM
Neither Nikon nor Canon use "steady shot" in any of their dSLR camera bodies...it's built into some of their camera lenses instead, but NOT the usual kit lenses for the D40. You CAN buy it for any Nikon dSLR in other non-kit lenses - any Nikon lens that has VR as part of its name.

Nikon VR lenses (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2Fworkaround.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=vr+nikon+lens&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=jsp%2Fworkaround.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t)

VR doesn't help much at all in a boat, IMHO -- the frequency and amplitude of the motions caused by waves is too high for VR or IS to accomodate. I have it on my 70-200 zoom lens and never use it. It slows down focusing, doesn't help much in continuous shooting. Much better to use a higher shutter speed. Any shutter speed faster than about 1/800th second will freeze motion far better than ANY type of "steady shot" technology.

thanks, then i was misinformed. i had thought they had introduced something new that was part of the dslr body shortly after the d40 came out. in fact, i thought there were second gens of both the d40 and d80. it must have been marketing, or i just simply misunderstood--the latter being more likely. ;)

i would have thought that steady shot, or VR lenses would aid in getting some decent boarding shots, but your explanation seems logical. i need to spring for a VR lens. i have a pretty basic setup with the 18-55 and then the 80-200 i think they are. nothing fancy. love the camera though. i need to take a class. i'm using about 1/10th of it's functionality.

mitch
11-27-2008, 12:48 PM
Is the D40 still the one to get for most needs? Looks like $550 for the kit w/ the 200mm lens and case. Thanks!


The D40 goes from Power Off to first shot in less than 0.1 second. There is virtually NO shutter delay - you push the button and it takes the shot right now. The amount of time it takes to focus is quick, but how quick depends on lighting. Much faster than a point-and-shoot.

If you're shooting in JPEG-fine mode it will shoot at 2.6 frames per second and do so continuously until the memory card is full.

Autofocus can be turned off.

Maristar210
11-27-2008, 12:51 PM
Is the D40 still the one to get for most needs? Looks like $550 for the kit w/ the 200mm lens and case. Thanks!

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=25311

I bumped that thread for you Mitch and yes, at least I think so...

bigmac
11-27-2008, 01:47 PM
Is the D40 still the one to get for most needs? Looks like $550 for the kit w/ the 200mm lens and case. Thanks!

D40 is still a great camera, and extremely cost-effective.

On December 1st, rumor has it that there will be a product intro announcement from Nikon. The main buzz is about their expected 24 megapixel variant of the D3 -- the D3X. That's likely to be a $6000-plus camera.

However, it's possible that Nikon may also announce a camera to replace the D40. I don't know - all the buzz is about the D3X and some expected new lenses, but he D40 was first announced 2 years ago and that exceeds Nikon's usual timeline. Just sayin' you might want to wait until Monday to make a decision.

MattsCraft
11-27-2008, 02:03 PM
I missed all of the camera talk, but wanted to chime in here, having been a proffesional Photog for 30 years using almost exclusively Hasselblad 500 CM Film camera's, have now converted to digital SLR and Nikon all the way (Big Mac speaks with great insight), because I just can't afford Hassleblad digital. IMHO, if you want good digital from higher end cameras you must invest in Photoshop CS and shoot Raw only; JPEG just does not give you good editing capability! It is all about the lens my friends for good image capture not just megapixel, and switching to higher end digital is a learning curve and the photo's need color correction to get good images.

Just my 2 cents boys:rolleyes:

mitch
11-27-2008, 03:11 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=25311

I bumped that thread for you Mitch and yes, at least I think so...

Thanks, I remember that thread!

bigmac
11-27-2008, 03:51 PM
I missed all of the camera talk, but wanted to chime in here, having been a proffesional Photog for 30 years using almost exclusively Hasselblad 500 CM Film camera's, have now converted to digital SLR and Nikon all the way (Big Mac speaks with great insight), because I just can't afford Hassleblad digital. IMHO, if you want good digital from higher end cameras you must invest in Photoshop CS and shoot Raw only; JPEG just does not give you good editing capability! It is all about the lens my friends for good image capture not just megapixel, and switching to higher end digital is a learning curve and the photo's need color correction to get good images.

Just my 2 cents boys:rolleyes:


Here's my $.02...

I only shoot RAW (Nikon NEF) and certainly agree that it's a better choice for editing than jpegs. I gotta say the D3 that I use now has the best color and white balance out of the box that I've seen in a digital camera. Even so, many photographers have said that they don't like Nikon's default color management on the D3/D700 and have uploaded custom Picture Controls to their shooting menu. There can be a lot of tweaking to the menus of those upper end cameras.

I have both Photoshop CS3 and Nikon Capture NX2. I'm more comfortable with Photoshop after all these years, but IMHO Capture NX2 does a better job with NEFs than ACR. I acknowledge that that is a debatable point.

I've heard for 35 years about lens choice being the most important aspect. I agree that that was likely true in film days, but I'm not sure I agree anymore relative to digital. I do agree that a crappy lens will make for fuzzy images, but IMHO, in the digital age, autofocus speed and accuracy, sensor quality, and in-camera processing algorhythms are at least as important to image quality and maybe more so. Excellent photos can be obtained with a mediocre lens, but a mediocre sensor will always give mediocre images, and if the autofocus is also crappy then you'll get a mediocre image that's out of focus, and those things will be true no matter how good the lens is.

Note again that in talking about sensor quality, I'm not referring to the number of pixels. For the vast majority of amateur photographers, more than 6 megapixels is superfluous and may even be counterproductive to image quality (pixel density is usually related to noise).

mitch
11-27-2008, 04:07 PM
D40 is still a great camera, and extremely cost-effective.

On December 1st, rumor has it that there will be a product intro announcement from Nikon. The main buzz is about their expected 24 megapixel variant of the D3 -- the D3X. That's likely to be a $6000-plus camera.

However, it's possible that Nikon may also announce a camera to replace the D40. I don't know - all the buzz is about the D3X and some expected new lenses, but he D40 was first announced 2 years ago and that exceeds Nikon's usual timeline. Just sayin' you might want to wait until Monday to make a decision.

Do you think the D40 price would drop further if they release it's replacement next week? I suspect anything they come out w/ to replace it would be greater than 6MP and cost more......Thoughts? Thanks for the input...

bigmac
11-27-2008, 06:06 PM
Do you think the D40 price would drop further if they release it's replacement next week? I suspect anything they come out w/ to replace it would be greater than 6MP and cost more......Thoughts? Thanks for the input...Hard to know. Nikon is dropping prices in big segments of their lineup...both the D700 and D3 have come down a lot since their introduction.

My guess...look at the reliable online photo stores and you'll see lower prices (instant and mail-in rebates). Adorama and B&H Photo probably best places to start. Amazon, for example, has the D40 and 18-55 kit lens for $446 right now. My guess is that that's about as low as the D40 is going to go until it's replaced.

atlfootr
11-27-2008, 06:39 PM
Haven't seen any potential cameras of interest, so I thought I'd just remind you :rolleyes:

babymoore3
11-27-2008, 06:47 PM
I have to agree with bigmac as the camera (we use Canon 30D) is not all that is important in the SLR industry. If you are going to buy new PLEASE research the package you get as many times the lens included is not the greatest. Most "good" lenses are metal where it attaches to teh body, many package deals have plastic lens connections. The DPreview and other sites have great information on the lenses as well as the bodies. My two cents would be to buy from someone who is looking to get out or buy the body and research and get a good lens. If you have a crappy lens and a great camera body guess what kind of picture you get... The new canon rebel produces a mean picture with a good lens. We opted for the 30D solely for the improved shutter reliablity and some features that I can not explain as my wife shoots the heck out of stuff and deletes when we return home. In my opinion the 30D is too much for me (focal lengths, shutter speed, ISO speed, aperature settings). The rebel is simple, yet has some advanced features if you want to grow. The best thing... if you buy a lower end digital SLR camera (canon or Nikon) and great lenses - they are capable of being used on the more professional cameras if you so choose to upgrade. Start simple and get great accessories (L series lens for Canon) and grow if you enjoy!

1boarder
11-28-2008, 10:02 AM
I have been looking at buying either a canon or nikon and b&h has the canon 40d with the 28-135 lens for $1006. It takes 6.5 pics a second and that should do well for wakeboarding/skiing shots.

Anyone have any experience with the 40d or this lens? How does it compare to the Nikon line at this price? Anyone think they will be cheaper after christmas? I want a nice camera, but I am having trouble pulling the trigger on a camera this expensive.

mattsn
11-28-2008, 10:39 AM
Check out this site.

http://www.nikonusa.com/blackfriday/

This will answer your questions about the D40. I just bought a D40 with both lenses a month ago for $589.

Good Luck.

prostar205
11-28-2008, 12:22 PM
I am leaning towards the d40 as well.

Question: should I spring for the VR lens? I am looking at the pacakge that has the 18-55 and 55-200 but neither are the VR lens.

Question: should I just get the body only and match that with a Nikon 18-200 lens?

Question: is a lens that zooms to 200 going to give me enough zoom capability to shoot my kids placing soccer from end of the field to the other?

bigmac
11-28-2008, 12:48 PM
I am leaning towards the d40 as well.

Question: should I spring for the VR lens? I am looking at the pacakge that has the 18-55 and 55-200 but neither are the VR lens.

Question: should I just get the body only and match that with a Nikon 18-200 lens?

Question: is a lens that zooms to 200 going to give me enough zoom capability to shoot my kids placing soccer from end of the field to the other?

Personally, I'm kind of neutral on VR. Bear in mind it only helps with camera shake, allowing you to take pictures at a slower shutter speed than you would normally be able to hand-hold. It doesn't help with freezing motion on images of moving subjects. For example, if you had VR, you could take a picture at soccer practice in pretty low light by dropping your shutter speed to 1/30th second. That would mean that the field, bleachers, etc would be nice and sharp, but any people (especially running people) would be blurry.

As to a 200 mm lens -- because the D40 has a "crop factor" of 1.5, the images at 200mm would be more like a 300mm lens, but even so, shooting across a soccer field is a pretty long reach. I have found that shooting someone on the end of a ski rope at 200mm will just allow them to fill the frame.

sizzler
11-28-2008, 12:50 PM
Personally, I'm kind of neutral on VR. Bear in mind it only helps with camera shake, allowing you to take pictures at a slower shutter speed than you would normally be able to hand-hold. It doesn't help with freezing motion on images of moving subjects. For example, if you had VR, you could take a picture at soccer practice in pretty low light by dropping your shutter speed to 1/30th second. That would mean that the field, bleachers, etc would be nice and sharp, but any people (especially running people) would be blurry.

As to a 200 mm lens -- because the D40 has a "crop factor" of 1.5, the images at 200mm would be more like a 300mm lens, but even so, shooting across a soccer field is a pretty long reach. I have found that shooting someone on the end of a ski rope at 200mm will just allow them to fill the frame.

does it come with a rebate????

mitch
11-28-2008, 01:17 PM
Best deal on the D40 kit that I've found so far is ritz. 550, like everyone else, but comes with a digital frame, probably a crappy one, but....
once the hangover subsides some, I may head out. I'm feeling a slight loyalty toward canon, as I've had such good luck with the elph line over the years. still researching.......


I am leaning towards the d40 as well.

Question: should I spring for the VR lens? I am looking at the pacakge that has the 18-55 and 55-200 but neither are the VR lens.

Question: should I just get the body only and match that with a Nikon 18-200 lens?

Question: is a lens that zooms to 200 going to give me enough zoom capability to shoot my kids placing soccer from end of the field to the other?

bigmac
11-28-2008, 01:23 PM
does it come with a rebate????

Appears to.... 20GBP off at Jessops (http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Cameras%20and%20Lenses/Digital%20SLRs/products/Nikon/D40%20Black%20%20AF-S%20DX%2018-55mm%20Lens-47076/Show.html)

mitch
11-29-2008, 08:44 AM
Looks like the D60 is a 100 more, worth it? Thx

bigmac
11-29-2008, 09:36 AM
The D60 has some features that probably make it a better camera, but whether it's $100 better, I don't know. It all depends on how important that $100 is to you.

mitch
11-29-2008, 11:43 AM
got the D60, thanks!

sand2snow22
11-30-2008, 12:19 AM
Picked up the 2 lens kit D40 today at a local store today for $519. Thanks for the help BigMac!

Xstreamws
11-30-2008, 02:07 AM
Hey there! Go check out the NEW Panasonic DMC-G1K Lumix DSLR 12 Megapixel Digital Camera - Black.
You can go check it out with this link http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Digital-Cameras/Lumix-Digital-Interchangeable-Lens-Cameras/model.DMC-G1K_11002_7000000000000005702 sorry the link is so long.

You can also go to www.bizrate.com as well, and enter DMC-G1K and find this awesome camera for under $800. On the Panasonic direct site its free shipping. Good luck!

bigmac
11-30-2008, 11:09 AM
Hey there! Go check out the NEW Panasonic DMC-G1K Lumix DSLR 12 Megapixel Digital Camera - Black.
You can go check it out with this link http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Digital-Cameras/Lumix-Digital-Interchangeable-Lens-Cameras/model.DMC-G1K_11002_7000000000000005702 sorry the link is so long.

You can also go to www.bizrate.com as well, and enter DMC-G1K and find this awesome camera for under $800. On the Panasonic direct site its free shipping. Good luck!

The 4/3 sensor size that Olympus invented generated a lot of excitement when it first came out years ago, but that system (which is also used by the Panasonic G1K) has never lived up to its performance expectations, especially relative to noise performance. Especially when you get up into the 10+ megapixel range, the pixel density is just too high to give good noise performance. Other than image quality being inferior to the APS-size sensors, the Olympus cameras performed pretty well. Then came micro-4/3 cameras like the Panasonic G1K. Very clever concept indeed, made for much smaller dSLR cameras that realized the potential of the 4/3 system relative to size. Problem is that it still uses a 4/3 sensor which just isn't as good what what Mitch will get in his D60. The other problem that the micro 4/3 cameras have is that in order to save size of the camera and make it smaller, they had to ditch the separate phase-detection AF sensor array that make conventional dSLRs so very fast to focus, and go back to contrast-detection like the point-and-shoots use. The result is more shutter lag (increased button-to-image time), which is one of the main reasons people get a digital SLR in the first place. Let's face it...Nikon and Canon have set the performance bar for digital imaging and neither of those companies have a 4/3 sensor in their lineup.

Bottom line, micro-4/3 like the Lumix G1K could be a good choice if one were willing to compromise some image quality and focusing performance for size, and IMHO this becomes more of a compromise if we're talking about action shots like wakeboarding.

The D40 and the D60 remain pretty much the best choices for image quality in the $800-and-less category IMHO.

Iman
11-30-2008, 12:13 PM
Pentax had a great rebate deal going last year and I got there setup with 2 lenses for around $500 including two lenses and shake reduction. If you already have Canon or Nikon lenses then I'd stick with those brands, otherwise Pentax is worth considering due to the lower cost and shake reduction. I've bought a plasma and this camera through butterflyphoto.com and got great deals and service.

bigmac
11-30-2008, 12:46 PM
Rumors persist of Pentax throwing in the towel on digital SLRs, and that was before the world economy tanked. IMHO they have such a small part of that market that I'd be concerned about their longevity.

I was heavily invested in Olympus film SLR gear decades ago when they just decided to get out of SLR bodies, lenses, and accessories altogether and go only with film point-and-shoots. It may have been a smart business decision, but from then on I decided I was going to stick with the major players.

mitch
11-30-2008, 12:54 PM
I resisted buying any memory (or an external flash) for the D60 bacause there were so many choices. What should I be looking at? Thanks again!

bigmac
11-30-2008, 01:43 PM
I resisted buying any memory for the D60 bacause there were so many choices. What should I be looking at? Thanks again!

Lexar and Sandisk are the big players in flash memory and I'd be inclined to go with one of those two companies. The variables are going to be in capacity and speed. As to speed, I think you'll find that the UDMA-type cards will be pointless expense because the write speed of the D60 just isn't fast enough to be able to make use of those more expensive SD cards. As to size, that's a philosophy thing. The D60 puts out NEF files at 9 megabytes/image - JPEG-Fine files at 5 megabytes/image. Now it becomes a matter of how many images you want to be able to store from a given photo session. I don't like having "all my eggs in one basket" in case of memory card corruption, so I only use 4 megabyte cards on my camera (I shoot only on RAW). The D60 will store about 320 RAW images (520 JPEG Fine images) on a 4 gig card. If I had that camera and was shooting jpegs, I'd probably be looking at buying two 4-gig SD memory cards that are SDHC compliant. That would be the Sandisk Ultra II or Lexar SDHC. Of the two, I would opt for the Sandisk because I think they are more bang-for-the buck than Lexar. Much more aggressively priced.

For casual and occasional photography, it's OK to just plug the camera into your computer via USB to download your images. Personally, I use a high speed card reader to do that because I usually have a large volume of large files.

sand2snow22
11-30-2008, 07:04 PM
I got 3 Sandisk 4 gig memory cards for $60 with a mail in visa card rebate of $60.

stuartmcnair
12-01-2008, 04:25 PM
I think you'll find that the UDMA-type cards will be pointless expense because the write speed of the D60 just isn't fast enough to be able to make use of those more expensive SD cards.

I love disagreeing with you... :)

The difference in the UDMA cards is not in camera (my new 50D actually does support them though) it is in the speed to get them off of the card and onto the computer. A 4-gig card of jpgs (yup, all I shoot) takes about 70 seconds to download via USB 2.0 with a UDMA card. I do not have time to wait for pictures to copy as I have to get them edited and uploaded quickly.

Spend a few bucks now to save lots of time later. You will also need the Lexar USB 2.0 UDMA reader that supports both SD and CF.

bigmac
12-01-2008, 06:33 PM
I love disagreeing with you... :)

The difference in the UDMA cards is not in camera (my new 50D actually does support them though) it is in the speed to get them off of the card and onto the computer. A 4-gig card of jpgs (yup, all I shoot) takes about 70 seconds to download via USB 2.0 with a UDMA card. I do not have time to wait for pictures to copy as I have to get them edited and uploaded quickly.

Spend a few bucks now to save lots of time later. You will also need the Lexar USB 2.0 UDMA reader that supports both SD and CF.
Yeh, we do disagree. I can always go make a sandwich when uploading from CF cards so I don't care much about upload speed (although I do use SanDisk Extreme IV and a Firewire 800 reader). More importantly (IMHO) if the camera writes slow to the card, the buffer fills up, and you get like 5 shots in a row instead of like 30. Write speed from the camera to the card is much more important than read speed getting them off the card. In the one case, you read "New Posts" on TeamTalk while you're waiting for the upload. In the other, you miss one or more priceless shots.

I agree, the upload speed could be important if you work for Sports Illustrated, are covering the SuperBowl, and are taking 5000 shots during the course of the game. Me, I rarely shoot more than 500 shots in one setting. The upload isn't even enough time to microwave a pizza. Anyway, I buy the cards for the write speed, not the read speed.

IMHO, of course.

prostar205
12-01-2008, 06:36 PM
D40 is still a great camera, and extremely cost-effective.

On December 1st, rumor has it that there will be a product intro announcement from Nikon. The main buzz is about their expected 24 megapixel variant of the D3 -- the D3X. That's likely to be a $6000-plus camera.

However, it's possible that Nikon may also announce a camera to replace the D40. I don't know - all the buzz is about the D3X and some expected new lenses, but he D40 was first announced 2 years ago and that exceeds Nikon's usual timeline. Just sayin' you might want to wait until Monday to make a decision.

Bigmac - any news on this possible announcement?

bigmac
12-01-2008, 06:40 PM
Bigmac - any news on this possible announcement?Only new camera they announced was the D3X -- 24.5 megapixels, full frame. Bargain priced at $8000.

Otherwise, nothing new for the holidays. The best deals on the D40 are now....go get 'em.

prostar205
12-01-2008, 06:43 PM
Bigmac -

I'm going with the D40 with the standard 18-55 lens and also getting the 70-300 VR lens. Thoughts??

The camera and standard lens is $449.99 at Talls Camera and the 70-300 VR lens is 449.99 as well.

I prefer getting my stuff through our local camera shop so they can work with my wife (it's going to be her camera).

Thanks for all your help.

mitch
12-01-2008, 07:13 PM
Should come w/ a few DVDs to help her, and youtube has quite a bit of hands on reviews too with tips etc. I got mine at Ritz Camera and Nikon rep is working with them on a class in Jan. I plan to be there.


Bigmac -

I'm going with the D40 with the standard 18-55 lens and also getting the 70-300 VR lens. Thoughts??

The camera and standard lens is $449.99 at Talls Camera and the 70-300 VR lens is 449.99 as well.

I prefer getting my stuff through our local camera shop so they can work with my wife (it's going to be her camera).

Thanks for all your help.

Naste Craft
12-01-2008, 07:17 PM
I just picked up the D60 at Costco with the 18-55 and 55-200 VR lens.

So far It's a great camers, can't wait to get some boarding pix this weekend.

mitch
12-01-2008, 07:43 PM
My D60 is under wraps till xmas:mad: The D60 kit at Ritz came with a nice 7" digital frame, which will be a nice re-gift for the inlaws. Did you buy an add on flash? lemme know how the indoor shots are and whether you think you'll need one.


I just picked up the D60 at Costco with the 18-55 and 55-200 VR lens.

So far It's a great camers, can't wait to get some boarding pix this weekend.

prostar205
12-01-2008, 08:26 PM
Bigmac -

Is $350 worth the price difference to pay between the 55-200 VR and the 70-300 VR lens setup? I can get the D40 w/18-55, 55-200 VR lens for $599.99 at our local camera shop. Or, I can go with the D40 w/18-55, 70-300 VR lens for $949.99.

Your .02 would be appreciated.

Naste Craft
12-01-2008, 08:49 PM
My D60 is under wraps till xmas:mad: The D60 kit at Ritz came with a nice 7" digital frame, which will be a nice re-gift for the inlaws. Did you buy an add on flash? lemme know how the indoor shots are and whether you think you'll need one.

So far the pix have turned out good without the add on flash but I will end up getting one. BTW it is my xmas present as well but I needed to use it to take pix of our 7 month son for xmas cards and pix for the grandparents.

mitch
12-01-2008, 09:30 PM
So far the pix have turned out good without the add on flash but I will end up getting one. BTW it is my xmas present as well but I needed to use it to take pix of our 7 month son for xmas cards and pix for the grandparents.

oh and I'm sure it'll find it's way back under the tree;) Wish I could have bought one when my kids were that young. You'll have a lot of fun! lemme know what flash you get

RexDog1
12-01-2008, 09:37 PM
So far the pix have turned out good without the add on flash but I will end up getting one. BTW it is my xmas present as well but I needed to use it to take pix of our 7 month son for xmas cards and pix for the grandparents.

WHAT !!!! you have a son??? When did this happen???:rolleyes:

Next thing you are going to tell me you are looking at buying a MC……………..:D :toast: :friday:

bigmac
12-01-2008, 11:35 PM
Bigmac -

I'm going with the D40 with the standard 18-55 lens and also getting the 70-300 VR lens. Thoughts??

The camera and standard lens is $449.99 at Talls Camera and the 70-300 VR lens is 449.99 as well.

I prefer getting my stuff through our local camera shop so they can work with my wife (it's going to be her camera).

Thanks for all your help.

The 70-300 lens is reportedly a pretty good lens. Only problem with it is that it's pretty slow at 300mm with an aperture of f/5.6. OTOH, shooting in daylight from a boat, that just won't be a problem.

prostar205
12-01-2008, 11:38 PM
Do you think it is worth getting the 70-300mm over the 55-200mm for an extra $350?

bigmac
12-01-2008, 11:40 PM
Bigmac -

Is $350 worth the price difference to pay between the 55-200 VR and the 70-300 VR lens setup? I can get the D40 w/18-55, 55-200 VR lens for $599.99 at our local camera shop. Or, I can go with the D40 w/18-55, 70-300 VR lens for $949.99.

Your .02 would be appreciated.

Yikes! That's a tough question. No question the 70-300VR is a good lens, but I think if it were me, I'd probably opt for the 55-200VR. With a DX camera 200mm should be pretty good reach for most uses. Optical quality should be close to the same, and the advantage of the 55-200 is friendlier size and weight.

mitch
12-02-2008, 08:57 AM
Bigmac, so something like this should do it? Thanks!

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/SanDisk-4GB-Ultra-II-SDHC-Card-SDSDRH004GA1/sem/rpsm/oid/208507/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do


Lexar and Sandisk are the big players in flash memory and I'd be inclined to go with one of those two companies. The variables are going to be in capacity and speed. As to speed, I think you'll find that the UDMA-type cards will be pointless expense because the write speed of the D60 just isn't fast enough to be able to make use of those more expensive SD cards. As to size, that's a philosophy thing. The D60 puts out NEF files at 9 megabytes/image - JPEG-Fine files at 5 megabytes/image. Now it becomes a matter of how many images you want to be able to store from a given photo session. I don't like having "all my eggs in one basket" in case of memory card corruption, so I only use 4 megabyte cards on my camera (I shoot only on RAW). The D60 will store about 320 RAW images (520 JPEG Fine images) on a 4 gig card. If I had that camera and was shooting jpegs, I'd probably be looking at buying two 4-gig SD memory cards that are SDHC compliant. That would be the Sandisk Ultra II or Lexar SDHC. Of the two, I would opt for the Sandisk because I think they are more bang-for-the buck than Lexar. Much more aggressively priced.

For casual and occasional photography, it's OK to just plug the camera into your computer via USB to download your images. Personally, I use a high speed card reader to do that because I usually have a large volume of large files.

bigmac
12-02-2008, 09:35 AM
That should work just fine for you. Always format the card in the camera using the camera's menu choice. I reformat after I download images from it, and only after I know that the transfer went well with all the images intact.

You should consider photo editing software. There are a lot of choices, but I'm a big fan of Photoshop Elements as being very cost effective. I think you can download a free trial from Adobe's website (http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopelwin/?promoid=BPDEM). There are many other choices, and Photoshop Elements may even be more editing capability than you need, but I think it's a great deal, bang-for-buck-wise.

Maristar210
12-02-2008, 10:02 AM
Bigmac -

Is $350 worth the price difference to pay between the 55-200 VR and the 70-300 VR lens setup? I can get the D40 w/18-55, 55-200 VR lens for $599.99 at our local camera shop. Or, I can go with the D40 w/18-55, 70-300 VR lens for $949.99.

Your .02 would be appreciated.

Best Buy is running a sale on the D40 with the standard lens and the 55-200mm lens for $449


That's the set up I personally have and I love it...

thanks to the big H for the recommendation

PS.205
12-02-2008, 10:45 AM
I have a Canon Digital Rebel XT and love it. I've bought my last few cameras from http://www.abesofmaine.com.

bigmac
12-02-2008, 11:00 AM
Before buying anything online, one should always check out that particular online store at resellerratings.com.

Here's Abe's of Maine, for example

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Abe_s_of_Maine

Don't forget to scroll down and read the user reviews.




///

stuartmcnair
12-02-2008, 11:59 AM
As far as photo editing software goes...I use two. I use Photoshop Lightroom for the initial edits and workflow management. I highly recommend this if you are looking at editing software. I also use Photoshop for the images that will be published either in print or on the web in anything other than a slideshow.

Lightroom is great because it does not make changes to the actual image so if you screw something up there is not real damage done.

mitch
12-02-2008, 12:22 PM
Steve, got a link? I did not find that one? Thx!


Best Buy is running a sale on the D40 with the standard lens and the 55-200mm lens for $449


That's the set up I personally have and I love it...

thanks to the big H for the recommendation

bigmac
12-02-2008, 01:04 PM
As far as photo editing software goes...I use two. I use Photoshop Lightroom for the initial edits and workflow management. I highly recommend this if you are looking at editing software. I also use Photoshop for the images that will be published either in print or on the web in anything other than a slideshow.

Lightroom is great because it does not make changes to the actual image so if you screw something up there is not real damage done.


I've never used Lightroom, but I know it's very popular. I only shoot in RAW, so I use Nikon Capture because it handles Nikon's RAW files better than Adobe Camera Raw. That's a function of Nikon's proprietary RAW system though, and the fact that Adobe has to reverse-engineer Nikon's RAW code.

prostar205
12-03-2008, 12:27 PM
I have settled on the D40 with the standard (non VR) 18-55 lens. I am also going to get an 18-200mm zoom lens.

Question: Do I get the Nikkor 18-200mm lens for $750 or go with a Tamron 18-200mm for $250? Is the Nikkor lens worth an extra $500?

M-Funf
12-03-2008, 12:33 PM
I have settled on the D40 with the standard (non VR) 18-55 lens. I am also going to get an 18-200mm zoom lens.

Question: Do I get the Nikkor 18-200mm lens for $750 or go with a Tamron 18-200mm for $250? Is the Nikkor lens worth an extra $500?

There are lots of package deals out there for the 18-55 and 55-200 if that works for ya.

prostar205
12-03-2008, 12:36 PM
There are lots of package deals out there for the 18-55 and 55-200 if that works for ya.

I should have mentioned that my wife (the camera will be her's) wants total convenience and does not want to have to change lens. Hence, the reason for the 18-200 option.

mitch
12-07-2008, 10:22 PM
how important is liveview? noticed the canon DSLR's in the d40/60 class have this and the nikon d60 does not.

bigmac
12-07-2008, 11:28 PM
The big market for dSLRs is people coming up from the point-and-shoot ranks. Point and shoots have Liveview and those new customers tended to complain about its lack on the entry-level dSLRs. The usefulness is to be able to look at the screen on the back of the camera for framing. Personally I think it's pointless. My D3 has it - I've never so much as turned it on. Nothing beats a good dSLR viewfinder.

mitch
12-08-2008, 08:33 AM
Thanks BM. I was thinking it would only be handy for portraits. The higher end Nikon's seem to have have it, and the reviews I've watched are pointing to it, along with fewer points of focus, as drawbacks to the D60.

bigmac
12-08-2008, 11:03 AM
Take a look at the Sony A300. It has 9 point autofocus and Liveview. It's about $100 more expensive, the image quality isn't as good as the D60 (mostly more noise - debatable point), and you'd want to look at camera systems. Nikon's system is mature, Sony's "system" is one they bought from a failed camera company that bought a failed camera company. But....it's out there.

Just sayin'....give the A200, A300, A350 a look. They meet your criteria for Liveview and higher number of focus points.

TX.X-30 fan
12-08-2008, 11:17 AM
Do any of them offer any kind of rebates. 42761

flipper
12-08-2008, 11:30 AM
Do any of them offer any kind of rebates. 42761

Easy there, don't want to see you have to go on time out again.:D

TX.X-30 fan
12-08-2008, 12:33 PM
Easy there, don't want to see you have to go on time out again.:D




Yes I agree, anyway my alter-ego is a dick. :D

JohnE
12-08-2008, 12:42 PM
Good to see you back TX.

bigmac
12-08-2008, 01:00 PM
Yes I agree, anyway my alter-ego is a dick. :DDon't give up on him, though. I think he has promise...

rlivingood
12-08-2008, 07:51 PM
DSRL vs point and shoot.

If you don’t expect to use any function besides automatic then I recommend a point and shoot camera like a Canon G10 or G9. Of course to get better pictures you would need to use ISO settings and more importantly aperture priority. (not going to argue about glass)

If you decided to use these features then the DLSR is the right camera. Most folks that purchase DSLR cameras that end up using the automatic setting seem to take fewer pictures because they are larger to carry around.

So you got to ask yourself, are you going to use the photographic capabilities besides automatic. If you do and understand how to use them then the DSLR is the way to go. If not then get a good point and shoot camera.

Recommend the Canon G10 or the Panasonic DMC-LX3. I prefer Canon.