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MCDriven
06-30-2008, 10:55 AM
Can clear wake to wake both sides (into the flats heelside), but not getting very high, which makes grabs & other moves tough. Any pointers for getting more height on my jumps?

wakeX2wake
06-30-2008, 11:07 AM
step 1) learn a progressive edge... too many people do a turn and burn... NO... progressive and sit in a chari as you approaching the wake... still won't get very high but the edge is KEY

step 2) learn to stand tall up the wake while keeping that hard edge... as you come out of the trough of the wake you'll want to start standing as you go up the wake and be standing tall at the top...

step 3) load the line while standing tall... when approaching the wake in the "chair" position you want to have your hands at your front hip with your arms at a 90... that's right not straight not up not out... when you come up the wake standing tall you'll give the rope and extra tug and with the rope now at your center of gravity you can give it another tug to straighten you out in the air if you start feeling like you're getting off axis or going to come up short...

i know it all seems really fast when you're riding at first but it'll come as you start figuring it out... i learned to jump wake to wake in 2 mos w/o knowing how to do it... it took me a yr to learn how to jump w2w right... watch pros hit the wake... i know its hard to not watch the spins and inverts but just look at their body/feet/hands position as they're hitting the wake... just remember before anything else... hands down and sit in the chair... it'll come... good luck

MCDriven
06-30-2008, 12:08 PM
Thanks for the tips WX2W - I have been turn and burn but can really tell when I get the progressive edge right and have been working on it the last 2 weekends. I'll definitely pop in a video or two and watch the pros, especially on how you hold the handle - hadn't heard that tip before.

One question: how far out should you start to glide in and how far out do you start to cut to get the progressive edge when you are learning?

By the way, used the Parks Bonifay quote to inspire me to throw and nail a wake to wake TS FS 180 this past weekend. Of course, Parks wasn't 46 when he said it and probably was never as sore on a Monday morning as I am this morning.

Looks like we have the same ride - mine's switch graphics too.

damaged442
06-30-2008, 12:28 PM
Ditto on what wakeX2wake said. You really don't need to cut out very far to still be able to clear the wake. I've seen some people pull to where they're almost even with the boat. Totally unnecessary. The more you ride, the more you'll see what you need to be able to get over the wake. The key is the slow turn and progressive edge. I bend right down with the approach and straighten out my legs as I hit near the top of the wake. Away you go. As far as grabs go, I try to bring the knees up after I pop off the wake. Here is a shot of a tailgrab behind my empty Tristar. If I can do that with my boat, you should be getting nosebleeds behind your X2 in no time. 37086

MCDriven
06-30-2008, 12:41 PM
Thanks Damaged. My old boat was a 209/X9, and I am a convereted skiier - hence my turn and burn approach. I lift my knees up, but with the speed I was carrying, there was no slack in the rope to release for a grab. Sounds like it's all technique. I'll work on my technique and pack some tissues for those nose bleeds.

That's an impressive jump and grab - particularly since you can see the kind of wake your boat produces in the picture.

wakeX2wake
06-30-2008, 01:28 PM
yeah man ditto on damaged's stuff too... you need to get far enough outside the wake to be able to comfortably pull out... chill a second and the start your edge and get comfortable with your edge into the wake... i can now behind my x2 get just outside the wash and lay into it and get plenty of pop to get over the wake... i suggest mess with it but try every single time (just like in slalom skiing) making your cut the exact same until you get more comfortable with standing tall on the wake and loading that line as your coming up the wake...

props on the tsfs180... that's one of my sketchiest 180 tricks... switch tsfs 180 (i guess you could call it a ts half cab...?.... whatever) is super sketchy for me haha... can't even get that one w2w yet...

back on your edge while i'm thinking about it... i hope you're riding a good wake line and not a slalom rope like i've seen some people do... make a huge difference in your level of comfort on your cut on a wake board... the flex int he line is your savior in slalom skiing and will kill you wakeboarding... and the length of your line is going to make a big difference... i ride a 75 or 80 ft line at 23.5-24 mph... the difference in the line length will give you more time to get comfortable with your progressive edge but will also require you to jump farther to get across the wake... kind of a trade off... i know what you mean about the soreness thing too... heck i'm 25 and limped acorss the parking lot this morning (got my boots either a) ducked too far out or b) spread too far out... inside of my back knee is killing me from casing the wake all day yesterday behind a SAN... STOOPID wide wake)

badams
06-30-2008, 01:35 PM
Ok guys, since we are talking about wake to wake I thought I'd ask for some help also. I can't seem to get any farther than about 3/4 across the wake. I know I need to follow all of the instruction that you have given in this thread. My question is how fast should I be pulled. I usually have the wife set the boat at about 19 to 20 and I just don't think that is fast enough. Any advice would be great.

MCDriven
06-30-2008, 02:24 PM
Thanks again WX2W - I do have a wakeboard line. Ridng at about 60 ft right now, but I know longer rope helps so will be moving out.

I am still working on my switch riding (son pulls me behind a Seadoo), so not even PArks words of wisdom could inspire me to throw a switch TSFS 180 - I chickened out.

Would be interested in thoughts on speed per badams. I ride at 21 mph and see you're 23-24. All seems slow coming from 36 mph for skiing.

damaged442
06-30-2008, 02:45 PM
Personally, I ride at 21-23 depending on how smooth the water is. The calmer it is, the faster I go. It's all personal preference though. Badams, I would bump the speed up a few mph and see what happens. I'm guessing that 2-3 mph will get you crossing that wake. I definitely agree with you about feeling slow compared to 36.

Initially, back when I first started riding behind an I/O, I was running my line at 60 ft. When I got my MC, I was riding with the rope connected to the stern because I wanted to put people in the boat and not cut their heads off with the rope. I still had it at 60 ft. When I got my Skylon, since it's in the center of the boat, I put 15 ft back on the rope, so now I'm at 75 ft. The wake seems to have the best shape there too. If I run any shorter rope, there's no wake to hit. (remember, Tristar)

wakeX2wake
06-30-2008, 02:57 PM
i ususally let the wake determine the exact speed... you want the wake to white cap about 2 or so feet behind the driver and it won't be hard if you have your weight even in the bote... that's your minimum speed but it's also going to be your tallest wake you can hit w/ your hull/weight configuration... speed up from there for comfort/personal preference and you wake won't be AS tall but you probably won't notice the difference to matter... you don't want to hit your wake when its washing b/c its not firm at the top (ie no pop unless you KNOW what's going on) and and its really incosistent... i'm a big guy 6'3'' 240+ and i ride at the same speed as my smallest riding partner whos about 5'10'' 145 lbs... if we're on a 75 ft line we're riding about 23.5-23.7 depending on the # of people and the chop (not that it makes that big of a freakin' difference anyways) and 24 on 80 ft line... FWIW randall the vandall harris rides i think it was 95ft at 28 mph behind his bu

yeah badams... i'd bump it on up if you feel comfortable with it... the edge you're getting right now will probably get you farther at a higher speed... see parks quote below when you bump that speed up haha... it all feels the same... not great when you fall... one summer i was trying and trying to huck some huge hs jumps into the flats (which is fun) and i said heck w/ this... it hurst when i fall just jumping so i'm going to fall tryying something upside down... good stuff

sorry this all may be old news but i never cease to be amazed... had a guy come up to us yesterday wanting to know what kind of tower would be best for wakeboarding... my buddy looked at him and said probably new dimension or monster on a early 90s late 80 models CC or MC if you want a really good one HAHA... i'm much better at telling someone how to ride than i am myself... those who can't do teach haha

wakeX2wake
06-30-2008, 03:03 PM
honestly tho the best way to get better... and its way more painful than falling to me... is video yourself riding and watch it... talk about figuring chit out quick about your edges and body position... some people this crap comes naturally to... i'm not that fortunate

Lennyp04
06-30-2008, 03:16 PM
Agreee with W2W, VIDEO YOURSELF!!!! When my friends come up who have cameras we will hit the water and then as soon as were done go and hook the camera up to the tv and watch jumps over and over in slow motion.

My biggest problem was not getting any air. Ya know when you watch a wakeboarding dvd and they tell you not to pop at the top....well I was going straight legged into the wake which got me no air. Then Collin Harrington came to my lake and he said its not popping when you bend your knees into the wake and right at the top stand f***in tall! I always thought that was popping but guess not cuz now I'm getting some decent air


Hope this helped!

Jerseydave
06-30-2008, 03:53 PM
Wake 101 on wakeworld is always helpful

http://www.wakeworld.com/Tricklist/TrickTip009.asp

click on the video, that should help you out.

I also highly recommend the video "The Book"

McDriven, do you ever go down to Smith Mountain Lake? Brostock is there again this year July 19-20. I'll be there, we should get together. (same age as you, but my knees are WAY worse I'm sure:D)

MCDriven
06-30-2008, 03:57 PM
Actually how I figured out I wasn't getting any height is we videoed ourselves this weekend, so I tapped this fountain of knowledge. Before I saw the video, I assumed I had height since I was going to the flats. My (soon to be former) method also leads to a lot of falls and hard ones to boot.

Thanks for all the tips. To sum up, progressive edge with hands to front hip, edge in seated position and start to "pop" at bottom of wake so your standing tall by the top, give a pull to center in the air and wipe blood from nose following landing. Did I miss anything?

MCDriven
06-30-2008, 04:03 PM
NJ: Smith Mountain Lake is about 5 hours from where I live (Virginia Beach) and 2.5 hours from my lake place. Want to go though since that's closer than anything else I could attend, but don't think I'll make it this year. Will let you know if plans change (but right now that's looking like my weekend at the lake with my college beer drinking buddies).

Thanks for the tips. I have The Book, which I think is great, but they can't diagnose you (and the tip about hands on your front hip isn't on there). I will check out your other link.

Enjoy Brostock if you make it and do us "old" guys proud. Gotta love a sport where the senior division starts at 35.

ShamrockIV
06-30-2008, 04:24 PM
video sounds what i need to do!!!

i fall into too many slalom habits!!!


good luck!!!

TX.X-30 fan
06-30-2008, 04:31 PM
Great stuff guys thanks much. I to am coming up just short or on the wake, riding at 70' 20/20.5. So it sounds like kick the speed some and really work on the edge since I have been just digging in my heels and going at the wake. good stuff to practice with, I will not end this summer without getting well over the wake!! Is picking up the legs also important after the pop? When ya'll say stand tall does it mean actually push off the water as I ride up the wake as if to ollie?? Thanks.

wakeX2wake
06-30-2008, 04:32 PM
Actually how I figured out I wasn't getting any height is we videoed ourselves this weekend, so I tapped this fountain of knowledge. Before I saw the video, I assumed I had height since I was going to the flats. My (soon to be former) method also leads to a lot of falls and hard ones to boot.

Thanks for all the tips. To sum up, progressive edge with hands to front hip, edge in seated position and start to "pop" at bottom of wake so your standing tall by the top, give a pull to center in the air and wipe blood from nose following landing. Did I miss anything?

i think you got it pretty good there... when you have time to see the landing and think in the air vs just reacting is when you know you're starting to get good pop... i know its a lot to remember and you're not going to get it all in one single day but like i said one thing at a time and as soon as you start getting better you won't quit... i'm on the water at least 5 days a week now (i video one day... usually tuesday so i can think about it on the off day on wednesday)... i can't get enough as i'm getting better and better... pretty soon you'll be on here asking how to throw a tantrum and what's the best way to do a bs handle pass... also practice throwing the metal low key... so you can acknowledge the folks giving you props for floating a HS jump down from 12 ft high and 8 ft into the flats...

wakeX2wake
06-30-2008, 04:39 PM
Great stuff guys thanks much. I to am coming up just short or on the wake, riding at 70' 20/20.5. So it sounds like kick the speed some and really work on the edge since I have been just digging in my heels and going at the wake. good stuff to practice with, I will not end this summer without getting well over the wake!! Is picking up the legs also important after the pop? When ya'll say stand tall does it mean actually push off the water as I ride up the wake as if to ollie?? Thanks.

don't jump... just stand up b/c as youre learning to stand up and pull the rope in youre in essence creating an upward pull from your center of gravity giving you pop and not just letting the wake toss you up like on a slalom ski behind a CC... if you actually try to jump you'll lose all your edge and most likely you'll miss time the "jump" and leave early and land head first in the middle of the wake or time it too late and land on your side half way across the opposite wake with your feet out in front of you (no i've never seen this happen before)... stand tall means eactly that... sit in the chair and as youre coming up the wake stand up and pull the rope to you... watch the pros (pay no attention to the trick they throw b/c that won't do anything but put bad thoughts of killing yourself on the water in your head)... watch their edge and their body position... then video and compare and remind yourself why you're not a pro... i do it everyweek... it sucks b/c i don't even like pictures of myself much less a video of me eating it on a borde

GuitsBoy
06-30-2008, 05:32 PM
Some bullet points...

- Set up early. Pull your arms in and keep them in, you dont want to have them fully extended. Easier if you do this early.

- Lean down the rope. Your torso should be leaning away from the boat for a strong edge. Dont let the boat pull your upper body forward.

- Progressive edge. You want max line tension at the moment of launch.

- Stand tall, dont jump. Think of using a trampoline or a diving board. Stiff legs.

TX.X-30 fan
06-30-2008, 06:27 PM
don't jump... just stand up b/c as youre learning to stand up and pull the rope in youre in essence creating an upward pull from your center of gravity giving you pop and not just letting the wake toss you up like on a slalom ski behind a CC... if you actually try to jump you'll lose all your edge and most likely you'll miss time the "jump" and leave early and land head first in the middle of the wake or time it too late and land on your side half way across the opposite wake with your feet out in front of you (no i've never seen this happen before)... stand tall means eactly that... sit in the chair and as youre coming up the wake stand up and pull the rope to you... watch the pros (pay no attention to the trick they throw b/c that won't do anything but put bad thoughts of killing yourself on the water in your head)... watch their edge and their body position... then video and compare and remind yourself why you're not a pro... i do it everyweek... it sucks b/c i don't even like pictures of myself much less a video of me eating it on a borde




Maintain the edge through the wake or let the boad flatten out as you reach the wake and begin to stand tall?? Good tips I'm taking notes here guy's :D

FlatBoard
06-30-2008, 06:55 PM
Maintain the edge through the wake or let the boad flatten out as you reach the wake and begin to stand tall?? Good tips I'm taking notes here guy's :D

Don't flatten the board TX - hence my handle "flatboard". I didn't believe my friends when they told me that I "flattened" my board approaching the wake. When I video taped myself riding, I thought I was going to puke. Man, was it ugly.

Great thread guys and thanks for all of the advice. Headin' to Lake Cumberland this week for some serious wake sessions.

MCDriven
06-30-2008, 07:14 PM
Yes - thanks again to all. I will be putting this all into practice for as long as my wife & son will drag me around the lake this weekend (& the rest of the season).

WX2W - I hope I'm back for those pointers on the advanced moves soon - I ain't getting any younger! I am envious of your water time - I am just a weekend warrior (but workout all week to get in shape for it).

Lennyp04
06-30-2008, 08:03 PM
Great stuff guys thanks much. I to am coming up just short or on the wake, riding at 70' 20/20.5. So it sounds like kick the speed some and really work on the edge since I have been just digging in my heels and going at the wake. good stuff to practice with, I will not end this summer without getting well over the wake!! Is picking up the legs also important after the pop? When ya'll say stand tall does it mean actually push off the water as I ride up the wake as if to ollie?? Thanks.


20 sounds slow. Then again I ride 23. But I also am 6' and weigh 210. So yeah, stand tall basically just means locking the legs. No pop. You'll get it. Also handle down low and close in makes more pop

Lennyp04
06-30-2008, 08:03 PM
Maintain the edge through the wake or let the boad flatten out as you reach the wake and begin to stand tall?? Good tips I'm taking notes here guy's :D

DON"T FLATTEN OUT!!!! Keep the edge all the way thru. I know it sounds weird

TX.X-30 fan
06-30-2008, 09:22 PM
I see what your saying Lenny thanks, I see a mid week ride so I can put some of this to use. This is a great thread and thanks to all the posts from you dudes that are in the know. Besides me I have an 8 year old I want to help along.

Lennyp04
06-30-2008, 09:29 PM
I see what your saying Lenny thanks, I see a mid week ride so I can put some of this to use. This is a great thread and thanks to all the posts from you dudes that are in the know. Besides me I have an 8 year old I want to help along.

Most important part of wakeboarding is to have fun. I lost that concept last summer and then Doug G thankfully brought it to my attention. Ever since I've ridden better because I'm less worried about beating out my friends and just having fun!

MCDriven
07-01-2008, 09:40 AM
I passed this all on last night to my 14 year old son who is learning with me & he's fired up & appreciative. We're both excited to put it into action & keep it fun.

wakeX2wake
07-01-2008, 10:11 AM
I passed this all on last night to my 14 year old son who is learning with me & he's fired up & appreciative. We're both excited to put it into action & keep it fun.

i swear the first time or so you edge all the way through the wake you're not going to feel like this is the right way but the first time you can do it and be balanced it will be the coolest feeling when you drift up in the air and can spot your landing down the other wake

ps we were out yesterday and i didn't realize .5 mph would make that big of a difference... my buddy who can really kill it had me bump him up to 24.5 and he threw an OHH that was easily 15 ft outside the wake and i swear that no exaggeration... by the time he landed i was standing in the boat (no longer driving) at the back seat yelling to him "that was the hugest thing i've ever seen"... needless to say i got out there at the increased speed and man alive... i had to start my cut in the trough to land downt he wake... i was carrying everything into the flats... just a little experiment we did yesterday... we've about decided for playing and learning spins and inverts its 22.5-23.2 but for learning raley based tricks its 24.5

GuitsBoy
07-01-2008, 10:22 AM
^^^
Yeah, a little extra speed goes a long way in firming up the wake, it really makes a difference. Its sad that the crashes hurt exponentially more as speed increases though. Its a balancing act between going fast enough for great pop, versus going too fast and getting broken off on a bad fall.

MCDriven
07-01-2008, 10:22 AM
WX2W - I've done it right a couple times pretty much by accident & I know the feeling. My son & I will lock eyes after I land and let out a mutual "WHOA!". I'll take one step back so I can go two forward. Will check out the speed too - I'm only at 21 now & more speed is just degrees of pain on wipeout. I do think I'll wipe out less with the proper approach than with my former turn and burn approach where I'm not set up to land.

Thanks again for all your help - very much appreciated.

vision
07-01-2008, 10:14 PM
I am where you are MCDriven. Clearing the wake came quick, but I do not hit the wake correctly. I just cheat with speed.

These guys have given you great advice. For me, the key is to SLOW DOWN. Drift into the wake and think about accelerating literally a few feet before the wake and hold that edge. It sounds easy but I still only get it correct 10% to 20% of the time. If I am going too fast, I let off my edge. Chicken I guess. As you say, when you hit it correctly, you will get great pop and you and everyone in the boat gets that special look on their face!

My progressive edge actually gets better as I practice HS or TS back rolls. I can cheat on wake to wakes and 180s and just go fast. But to land the back roll, I have to at least be in the ball park with my progressive edge. Not too mention that a short back roll hurts much less than a short 180 or 360 IMHO.

My son this year just mastered the progressive edge. It shocks me some times how high he pops.

Our local pros (Adam Fields and Kara Austin) have also been a great help for me. Consider taking lessons if this is available in your area.

Keep at it and let me know if you discover other tips that help you pop.


WX2W - I've done it right a couple times pretty much by accident & I know the feeling. My son & I will lock eyes after I land and let out a mutual "WHOA!". I'll take one step back so I can go two forward. Will check out the speed too - I'm only at 21 now & more speed is just degrees of pain on wipeout. I do think I'll wipe out less with the proper approach than with my former turn and burn approach where I'm not set up to land.

Thanks again for all your help - very much appreciated.

Hrkdrivr
07-01-2008, 11:44 PM
Everything you guys mentioned I'd heard/read/seen in videos when we first started wakeboarding, but it never made sense, so we naturally fell into turn-and-burn. It didn't work, of course, so we kept filling the ballast to the max which didn't work either; turn-and-burn towards a wall of water from way outside the wake (when you don't know what you're doing) always made me chicken out and I'd end up landing about halfway across the wake after getting zero air.

So I'm reading this thread last night and I decided to really pay attention to what I was doing. We went out today, before the crazy 4th of July crowds hit the water, and WHOA, what a difference!! At first it felt really strange at the pop, then I realized I wasn't keeping the handle low at my hips, so when I launched I was getting pulled off-balance. Once I disciplined myself to keep the handle low, the in-flight time was much more controlled. I still haven't gotten across the wake, but I've gotten much better air and I've gotten about 4/5 of the way across.

The difference was so dramatic, my hard-to-impress 15 year-old son told me to delay the next set so he could dig out the camera...not bad when the 41 year-old dad can get the kid's attention!! :D

I've just now reviewed the pics he took and I can tell already I'm still not standing up all the way nor am I keeping the handle low and close.

Attached pic shows the work I still have to do (knees still bent, handle getting away from me). But the good news is even though the technique isn't all there yet, just a little bit of effort trying to do like you guys said already has me most of the way across the wake with NO ballast!! :) This is a big step up for me!!

One other thing I learned today...I gotta work out the arms a lot more...keeping the handle where it's supposed to be is pretty darned tiring. :rolleyes:

FlatBoard
07-02-2008, 12:00 PM
Attached pic shows the work I still have to do (knees still bent, handle getting away from me). But the good news is even though the technique isn't all there yet, just a little bit of effort trying to do like you guys said already has me most of the way across the wake with NO ballast!! :) This is a big step up for me!!


Nice!! When you land in the flats its awesome. When I finally cleared the wake for the first time I was afraid of loosing control and crashing, but the landing was smooth. I don't clear every time, but it's getting better and with more air.

I too was a turn and burn rider thinking that the extra speed would give me more air and distance, but all I did was lose balance and control.

MCDriven
07-02-2008, 04:03 PM
Excellent. I am even more anxious now to put all this into practice this weekend. It also helps that I can tell my wife there's a couple of other 40+ year old nuts out there also trying to excel at this young man's game!

damaged442
07-02-2008, 04:07 PM
That's awesome!! Congrats guys! Keep up the good work!

wakeX2wake
07-02-2008, 05:22 PM
Attached pic shows the work I still have to do (knees still bent, handle getting away from me). But the good news is even though the technique isn't all there yet, just a little bit of effort trying to do like you guys said already has me most of the way across the wake with NO ballast!! :) This is a big step up for me!!

One other thing I learned today...I gotta work out the arms a lot more...keeping the handle where it's supposed to be is pretty darned tiring. :rolleyes:


Excellent. I am even more anxious now to put all this into practice this weekend. It also helps that I can tell my wife there's a couple of other 40+ year old nuts out there also trying to excel at this young man's game!

that's aesome to hear... ok hrkdrivr i've got a tip for you that's going to get you across the wake... yes it's cheating a little bit but it worked for me on my first w2w ts jump... go at it with the same strong hs edge and keep working on getting the handle to your front hip and extending those legs when you leave the wake but THIS TIME... when you're in the air... give a good tug on the rope (not hard enough to throw you off balance but as solid of a yank as you can) and you'll be right acorss that other wake... the jump looks good... from the spray it looks like you kept a pretty good edge until right at the end but if when you're right there in the air keep both hands on the rope and you'll pull yourself right acorss that other wake... good pop though... enjoy it!!!... me and a couple of my friends lose sight of the fact we're doing it for fun from time to time and that's usually when we get hit with a SHUT UP and DRINK THIS BEER haha

denverd1
07-02-2008, 05:57 PM
any of you guys have The Book? a 5 disc instructional. There are some GREAT edging drills on the "Learning the Basics" disc. The 4 minute drill works every edge and every FS 180 on the surface. It really tied edging together for me.

And no flattening out! Edge thru that wake! Its hard to get into the habit because we want to launch with our toes like a jumpshot. That reminds me, start hitting that toeside wake! hooray wakeboarding!

denverd1
07-02-2008, 06:10 PM
also www.waketrix.com for some good vids and writeups.

Hrkdrivr
07-02-2008, 08:15 PM
Excellent. I am even more anxious now to put all this into practice this weekend. It also helps that I can tell my wife there's a couple of other 40+ year old nuts out there also trying to excel at this young man's game!


Yeah...I told my wife about reading this thread and that there was another 40+ guy trying to do it and she just laughed and shook her head. But she keeps obliging me...and she's a pretty darn good driver...and can get the boat onto the trailer the first time nearly every time. :D

Oh yeah...my whole body is aching, sore from chasing this one little accomplishment!

Hrkdrivr
07-02-2008, 08:28 PM
...THIS TIME... when you're in the air... give a good tug on the rope (not hard enough to throw you off balance but as solid of a yank as you can) and you'll be right acorss that other wake... the jump looks good... from the spray it looks like you kept a pretty good edge until right at the end but if when you're right there in the air keep both hands on the rope and you'll pull yourself right acorss that other wake... good pop though... enjoy it!!!... me and a couple of my friends lose sight of the fact we're doing it for fun from time to time and that's usually when we get hit with a SHUT UP and DRINK THIS BEER haha

Cool. I'll give the airborne tug a try. I think the reason I let go w/one hand is I feel the tension on the rope and I know it's gonna pull me (somewhere, depending on handle position!) and I chicken out and let go w/the back hand to release the tension and slow things down. Maybe just hanging on and a little extra tug will be the trick!

And you're right about lightening up. Sometimes you just need to be thankful you're on the water instead of at work and enjoy it for what it is.

I'm really gonna have to step up the workout program, my arms and back are killing me!!! :rolleyes:

Jerseydave
07-02-2008, 10:08 PM
As you cut toward the wake, keep your eyes focused on the top of the 1st wake. From your initial cut, count 1-2-3-4-5 making sure your board goes from slightly on edge (at 1) to aggressively on edge (by 5). This helped me to not rush things (turn and burn). Your board should land on the 2nd wake on that same amount of heelside edge. And remember, keep the handle low and at your leading hip. :D

(PS, I'm another 40+ rider (45) working on tricks. So far I can do HS indy and tail grabs, powerslides and half-cab 180's over one wake, working on W2W with that trick. Also working on TS W2W's too)

Have fun! :D

vision
07-02-2008, 10:20 PM
I am with you guys. At 47, I am trying not to look too stupid out there.

Something that has helped me is to ride switched for about half of every set. This really helped me take my heel side half cab 180 W2W by forcing me to practice edging in the switched position. Also helps stretch out my back!

Hrkdrivr
07-02-2008, 10:27 PM
I am with you guys. At 47, I am trying not to look too stupid out there.

Something that has helped me is to ride switched for about half of every set. This really helped me take my heel side half cab 180 W2W by forcing me to practice edging in the switched position. Also helps stretch out my back!


Hey...there are a lot of us old guys doing this!! Maybe we're the only ones who can afford MC boats?!?

Good advice on riding switch. I've been meaning to do that, like make one whole day all switch.

After the HS w2w, the TS stuff will be next; I'm REALLY a sissy approaching the wake TS.

vision
07-02-2008, 10:31 PM
Do not get me started on TS. I can occasionally go W2W if I do a TS FS 180. But to do a straight TS W2W I have a mental block. Pisses me off! Especially considering the pros tell me that TS will always get you more air than HS.

Hrkdrivr, where do you ride? I am in NC as well and ride mostly Gaston and live in Cary.

GuitsBoy
07-02-2008, 10:31 PM
I ride switch whenever my arm starts getting tired riding regular, or whenever there's a stretch of chop Ive gotta ride through, or even when you get to a turn around. Really helps get you comfortable riding switch without taking away form your w2w jumps.

Hrkdrivr
07-02-2008, 10:38 PM
Vision, we live in Fayetteville and usually ride at Shearon-Harris. Only about 1.5 hrs drive and deeper water than Jordan (and closer).

Is Gaston up on the VA / NC border?

TX.X-30 fan
07-02-2008, 10:39 PM
Great tips here for us older farts. Can't do crap toe side and need mucho work on switch. thanks guy's keep it coming. ;)

vision
07-02-2008, 11:00 PM
Yeah. Gaston straddles the NC/VA border.

Lots of MC folks on here and on End of the Rope Gang ride at SH. SH is only about 20 minutes from my door, but I leave our boat up at Gaston. I hear there can be significant ramp congestion at SH?

Jordan is down right scary for many reasons!

If you ever need another rider at SH or you want to come up to Gaston, give me a shout.

Bob


Vision, we live in Fayetteville and usually ride at Shearon-Harris. Only about 1.5 hrs drive and deeper water than Jordan (and closer).

Is Gaston up on the VA / NC border?

MCDriven
07-02-2008, 11:23 PM
I have always wondered how the young guys afford a MC - maybe it's all old guys here!

I've got both HS & TS w2w but not a lot of height (hence all my questions). Can to TS FS 180's fairly consistent and got a HS melan grab last weekend. Agree that at our age (I'm 46), the key is not to look stupid (and avoid major injury).

Really started getting consistent TS jumps when I started concentrating on pushing down with my back foot on the cut - forces you on the edge and helps you maintain the edge through the top. Also, although it sounds weird, squeezing your butt in and (not so weird) holding your back arm tight help keep the back straight. Give the back foot push a try and see if it works for you. I am definitely way better HS.

Happy riding and Fourth of July to you all.

MCDriven
07-02-2008, 11:39 PM
By the way, I have my son drag me behind the jetski (have a SeaDoo Wake) where I practice switch and surface tricks. Cheaper on the gas too. The Book video does have some great drills, and they just marked it down to about $60.

Have to give props to my wife as a driver too. I trained her for years as a slalom driver (when I was much more wired and forgetful that it was supposed to be fun), and she became quite good. Now she's perfecting wakeboard driving. I make sure she gets lots of practice.

Vision - my youngest brother has a place at Gaston but is a bass fisherman who undoubtedly curses you as you roar by.

FlatBoard
07-03-2008, 12:20 PM
By the way, I have my son drag me behind the jetski (have a SeaDoo Wake) where I practice switch and surface tricks. Cheaper on the gas too. The Book video does have some great drills, and they just marked it down to about $60.

Have to give props to my wife as a driver too. I trained her for years as a slalom driver (when I was much more wired and forgetful that it was supposed to be fun), and she became quite good. Now she's perfecting wakeboard driving. I make sure she gets lots of practice.

Vision - my youngest brother has a place at Gaston but is a bass fisherman who undoubtedly curses you as you roar by.

Yes - Kudos to the boat drivers. My teenage son(16) is ready to take over the helm and give the wife a break!!

I must admit though with perfect pass it makes it a whole lot easier for the driver to give that o-so smoooooth ride:D

MCDriven
07-03-2008, 04:45 PM
The perfect pass is the best upgrade out there. One less thing for our drivers to worry about. When we got it on our 06, my wife said she wouldn't use it (wanted control) even though it was one of the main reasons I bought a new boat. Now she won't let me head back to the platform to put on my board before I first confirm it is set.

wakeX2wake
07-07-2008, 11:17 AM
mad props to you guys for going ahead and busting out the switch riding and working half cabs and TS jumps... drives me nuts b/c my roommate rides all the time and refuses to ride switch or jump toeside... we call him another heelside hero... want to try something that feels stupid... switch ts fs 180... all i can say is you better get some pop b/c the consequences and reprocussions are detremental (pancake central)

yea it ain't fun being a young guy (25) and forking over the dough for a good wakeboat... especailly a MC... could have a brand new moomba or yr old bu or SAN for the price of my X2 but it ain't gonna happen... i know everytime i get in it i'm good as long as i got gas... you guys may bust me for this but why can't you have all the cool stuff... exotic cars, money to blow, (can't say much for new truck and boat cause i got those), and huge house when you're younger and could use them to create way more havoc?

Hrkdrivr
07-07-2008, 01:16 PM
I guess it's just the way it works...you (most of us) gotta work long and hard to have the expendable cash to afford the good stuff. It would've been great to be young and had the money to wreak more havoc...just couldn't get there w/a military paycheck. It's all about choices. I did what I loved but didn't get rich from it, but I also never really considered going to fly airplanes "work," so I never really "worked" a day in my 20 years in the USAF. (Army/Marine/Navy guys, insert appropriate dig here about how the USAF doesn't work anyway... :-))

I understand it now, but when I was a kid in high school, it drove me nuts that the only guys I saw driving Corvettes and Porsches were bald and fat...kinda like what I'm becoming!!

Hrkdrivr
07-07-2008, 01:17 PM
I haven't had a chance to hit the lake again...anybody made any progress on their w2w jumps?

TX.X-30 fan
07-07-2008, 01:25 PM
Not yet toooooo crowded this weekend, hope to go 2 evenings this week.


Great post Hrkdrivr.

wakeX2wake
07-07-2008, 01:33 PM
agree with TX.X-30 great post hrkdrivr...

busting my hump and loving my toys... everybody asks what i've been up to and all i can honestly say is working and going to the water and i couldn't think of anything better to tell them... with the exception of this week and the next few (busted foot... cracked a bone in my left heel... last wednesday... in a walk boot for the next week or so... we'll see how the x-rays look a week from today) i'm on the water until i can't stand to get in it

Hrkdrivr
07-07-2008, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=TX.X-30 fan;513846]Not yet toooooo crowded this weekend, hope to go 2 evenings this week.
QUOTE]

Thx, X-30 fan...

We stayed away too...went to the beach instead...wasn't too crowded but I just can't get into salt water and sand in EVERYTHING.

Hrkdrivr
07-07-2008, 05:49 PM
agree with TX.X-30 great post hrkdrivr...

busting my hump and loving my toys... everybody asks what i've been up to and all i can honestly say is working and going to the water and i couldn't think of anything better to tell them... with the exception of this week and the next few (busted foot... cracked a bone in my left heel... last wednesday... in a walk boot for the next week or so... we'll see how the x-rays look a week from today) i'm on the water until i can't stand to get in it

Thank you too, W2W.

Working and going to the water, two very fine pursuits for sure!

Holy crap, what a bummer of a time to break your foot!! How'd you do it? It's kinda funny how I've been thinking about stuff lately. I always wonder, "If I get hurt doing this (whatever "this" is), how much wakeboarding time will lose?" I always think that before climb on my motorcycle, try to skateboard w/my son, etc. :o

Anyway, hope to get out some later this week and continue chasing the dream!!!

TX.X-30 fan
07-07-2008, 05:50 PM
[QUOTE=TX.X-30 fan;513846]Not yet toooooo crowded this weekend, hope to go 2 evenings this week.
QUOTE]

Thx, X-30 fan...

We stayed away too...went to the beach instead...wasn't too crowded but I just can't get into salt water and sand in EVERYTHING.




With you on that one let em have the beach, I'll take the lake.

Hrkdrivr
07-07-2008, 05:53 PM
Lots of MC folks on here and on End of the Rope Gang ride at SH. SH is only about 20 minutes from my door, but I leave our boat up at Gaston. I hear there can be significant ramp congestion at SH?

Jordan is down right scary for many reasons!

If you ever need another rider at SH or you want to come up to Gaston, give me a shout.

Bob

Cool. Will try to get in touch the next time we head out. I'd like to make a vacation out of a trip to Gaston; it's too far for a day trip but might work for a long weekend w/camping. It looks like a nice lake and there are rental properties on the water.

vision
07-07-2008, 07:57 PM
LG is a nice lake and if you look into rentals, let me know where you are looking and I can steer you towards the better areas.

I highly recommend Adam Fields Wakeboard School on the lake as well. Adam probably will not admit to giving me lessons because I suck. But he is an excellent teacher and always upbeat. Take a morning or all day lesson for 3 to 4 people and you will have a blast.

Hrkdrivr
07-07-2008, 09:19 PM
Thanks vision, I'll look into it and get w/you if we make a trip that way!

mccobmd
07-09-2008, 08:09 PM
I am another 40's trying to get air. Blew out my left ACL 2 years ago and never will be as strong. Go easy on "heel side Hero's" that are older than 40. I jump toe side but just don't have the strength to be comfortable with my switch riding yet. Still working the physical therapy but I don't think anyone younger has more fun than I do. Keep the tips coming, I (and my knee brace) will be out using them this week.

MCDriven
07-10-2008, 10:14 AM
WX2W - Sorry to hear about your break - get well soon. Also wish I could have had the good stuff & time to use it when I was younger - the world is backwards that way. I just live in denial.

I have been on the Lake since the 4th & put the tips to work. Much progress (along with much soreness & pain) - thanks to all. Will take a while though to overcome my slalom upbringing. The progressive edge is key. Was able to get melan and nose grabs HS (having a tough time convincing myself to let go with backhand for some reason so no indy or tail yet), go W2W everytime TS if I stay on edge, flats HS and landing my TS FS 180's very consistent (with one exception where due to indecision and exhaustion, I did a TS FS 90, landed edge in the water and blew out of my bindings - don't try this at home).

Will take a lot more practice though to get big air everytime. Did launch a few this weekend where my board drifted behind me and I was able to pull it back in and land it. Not full extension like the pro's, but not bad for an old guy. Quite a cool feeling.

For you slalom converts, I realized I have too much weight on my back leg (and saw it in others on the lake). You can tell if the nose of your board pops up when you jump. I really concertrated on 1) shifting weight to front leg as I started to drift in, 2) pulling rope in low & tight & 3) progressive edge starting at whitewash pressing hard with BOTH legs. If I did those things, I got good pop (by my definition at least). Even better when I stood tall up the wake, but working on it a bit at a time. Hopefully I will have it consistent by the end of the summer. Progressive edge is THE key, but much easier to do if your weight is 60/40 (back/front) instead of 80/20 like slalom (especially if the water is choppy - we had a real windy week here).

A tip for those having a problem with TS: it helped me if I looked down at the water over my right shoulder after I jumped (would be left shoulder for goofy riders). Your body follows where your head points, and if I looked down towards the TS edge lean (and had kept that edge through the top of the wake), I consistently landed on my TS edge. It really kept me from coming forward and unwinding landing flat on my board (or worse yet, HS). They say to look across the water where you're heading, but as a learning tool, this was a huge help to me. You also have to just go for it.

When I'm tired, I get the wife (hats off again to the drivers) to slow it down to about 18 and work on surface spins, slides and switch riding. Also ride switch through the turns (although I usually try something I'm likely to miss so I fall right before the turns). Get The Book for a bunch of drills on this. I thought that stuff must look lame compared to what the real riders are doing, but I saw someone else doing surface tricks and it looked pretty cool. And let's face it, on 40+++ year old knees, surface tricks is where all us old guys are heading sooner or later.

Thanks again to all for the help. I now know what to do, & I just need to get the reps on the water to get it consistent.

MCDriven
07-10-2008, 10:29 AM
LG is a nice lake and if you look into rentals, let me know where you are looking and I can steer you towards the better areas.

I highly recommend Adam Fields Wakeboard School on the lake as well. Adam probably will not admit to giving me lessons because I suck. But he is an excellent teacher and always upbeat. Take a morning or all day lesson for 3 to 4 people and you will have a blast.

Vision: Does Adam Fields give you instruction or just take you for a ride? I am trying to get my son to go to a camp next spring, but Gaston is not far away (and I think Adam's website says he'd come to our place). As you can see from my messages, I do a lot of self diagnosis, but it would be nice to have someone who knows what they are doing watch us ride and give us pointers for improvement. In the meantime, video and self-diagnosis will have to do. Took a "lesson" with a local rider last year, but she was not really a "teacher". Was a nice day on the water, but we didn't really learn anything (although we did discover wakesurfing and tested out an X2).

Lennyp04
07-10-2008, 10:59 AM
Heres a good tip I learned... While riding behind an 08 x star and going for a wakejump with a grab don't F up. I had the nose of my board hit the water first and then following was my head. Got a minor concussion the pro that I ride with came back to get me and goes...that looked like it hurt. It did! Had some nice tower height jumps before that though...maybe it was because the wake came half way up my thigh!

vision
07-10-2008, 12:59 PM
Adam offers hourly lesson for just you and your son, group lessons for the morning or the day with a group you put together he puts together, or week long camps. You can ride on your boat or his boat. Having him instruct on your boat helps you dial in your wake. (www.adamswakeboardschool.com). Definitely gives great instruction.

I really like the morning or all day group lesson with 4 people. If you are like me, you can not ride that many sets in a day without being wiped out. So I like to watch the other riders and I learn a tremendous amount from Adam while he instructs the other riders. While that person is riding, he will point out good and bad technique to the folks in the boat to help them learn from what the current rider is doing.

I would also look into lessons with Kara Austin or Byron at Adam's school. They are also excellent. I have had lessons with all 3 and found all to be equally helpful.

Vision: Does Adam Fields give you instruction or just take you for a ride? I am trying to get my son to go to a camp next spring, but Gaston is not far away (and I think Adam's website says he'd come to our place). As you can see from my messages, I do a lot of self diagnosis, but it would be nice to have someone who knows what they are doing watch us ride and give us pointers for improvement. In the meantime, video and self-diagnosis will have to do. Took a "lesson" with a local rider last year, but she was not really a "teacher". Was a nice day on the water, but we didn't really learn anything (although we did discover wakesurfing and tested out an X2).

MCDriven
07-10-2008, 01:10 PM
Thanks Vision. I will look him up. Good point about learning from instruction to other riders while you rest.

wakeX2wake
07-10-2008, 01:44 PM
very true... look at other riders and try to copy what they do good and stay away from what they do bad... can'/t ever hurt to have a pro give you a look... hopefully it's a productive session and not a "hey let's hang out and you can watch me ride" kind of deal

MCDriven
07-10-2008, 05:56 PM
Hey WX2W - don't know if you saw my message above, but sorry to hear about your injury - hope you are better and back on the water soon. Your tips were a huge help to me - big improvement already and can see my way clear to getting the basic technique down with lots of practice. The falls are already drastically reduced (but by no means eliminated).

Get well soon and thanks again.

mccobmd
07-14-2008, 12:36 AM
Hey you guys, I got my progressive edge, came in sitting, and then striaghtened legs. Do you try to have legs straigtened when you start up the wake or at the top. I actually get more pop TS, I guess thats because you have to have more weight forward and both legs straighter to cross TS. And before you ask for pictures I've got all I can do to get my wife to drive. Thanks and Kudo's to MC for the cruise.

MCRambo1
07-15-2008, 03:31 PM
What's up guys. I hope you are all enjoying your MC's this summer. If not you can allways come down to Rambo Marine in Alabama and I'll sell you a new one. (Shameless plug aside) If you haven't figured it out by now I am a newbie to this whole team mastercraft experience. I love how you guys are really into support of the sport of wakeboarding.
Allright down to business. My family just got an '08 X-Star, and it throws a sweet wake, the only problem is that it isn't hard enough with just the factory ballast. N E one whose experimented with weighting a boat knows there's a lot of adjustments to made before everything is right. N e one have any suggestions as to how much weight I need to add to get the happy medium between washy ugliness and knee-blower-outers? If you guys have n e possible theories let me know.

wakeX2wake
07-15-2008, 03:40 PM
haha if you'll hook me up w/ a pull we can talk about it:D

no... your wake and weighting and all will depend on several things

#1 - speed
#2 - line length
#3 - # of people in the boat

i've had lot of experience w/ this as a good friend of mine has a moomba LSV and so much as a 6 inch shift the wrong way by a 110lbs girl in the boat will make it wash... crazy i know... it's crazy to think the star would wash... i have an x2 w/ 300 lbs under the front seat and factory everywhere else (for right now) and its really hard to make it wash... i bring that up b/c w/ the star it should be a heavier boat and a longer boat and less succeptible to washing...

what speed are you pulling?

the general rule of thumb is to have 40% of the weight in front of the windshield and 60% behind the back seat... this should enable you to do just about whatever you want with the passenger situation within reason... also... if the wake is washing on one side... you need more weight on that side... usually correctable by moving one person or swapping a large for a small

p.s. i hear rusty and andrew usually add between 3-5 grand... i think the flyhigh ballast upgrade would be plenty sufficient... and a seamless install... you can toy with it from there for rider preference... cut off the factory tanks fill extra tbags only etc etc... you can also add hard weights to fine tune it too

MCRambo1
07-15-2008, 05:48 PM
Yeah I pretty much know the logistics behind everything, appreciate it. It's no problem when we have 5 or six people in the boat, I'm sure you know, it's monstrous then. It's just hard tryin to get it consistent and harder without the weight.

I ride at about 24.5 mph give or take
Rope Length: 68.5ft

I'm also having trouble getting enough speed on my toeside edge in order to make it across the wakes, any advise there?

MCDriven
07-15-2008, 06:23 PM
MCRambo: See above in the thread for some great advice from WX2W and others. The Parks Bonifay quote in WX2W's signature also really helps going wake to wake. Key is progressive edge and staying wrapped so you edge away from you landing TS (take off with a TS lean through the top of the wake and land with a TS lean to ride away). You may want to shorten your rope length too until you get it down - a lot easier if you're not smacking the inside of the second wake every time you land, which tends to throw you forward and take you off the TS edge.

The tricks that have worked for me TS is to ride a progressive edge through the top of the wake, pull hard with my back arm and keep my back straight to keep from coming unwrapped and then look over my rear shoulder and down to the water while in the air to make sure I land TS.

TX.X-30 fan
07-15-2008, 10:12 PM
Blown out last weekend for wakeboarding so no progress. I did get up on a wakeskate in a cove behind a seapoo. 6 tries and bam up and riding with no boots!!!! Very fun and I will be doing some more of that. Wow that seadoo deal makes one sore.

MCDriven
07-15-2008, 11:39 PM
Seapoo saves you some gas $$$$ though!

Going to lake this weekend with my college beer drinking buddies. Should get plenty of time on the water to work on my progressive edge.

wakeX2wake
07-16-2008, 10:14 AM
one of the biggest things that helped me w/ getting major pop on the TS... is PROGRESSIVE... it tends to be the key to a lot of tricks (not so much a tantrum but i think about everything else...)... i was going at it like i wanted to progress over about 5 jumps and get w2w... not happening... the next set i said the heck with and flung myself across it... you have to edge really hard through the top of the wake... another little tip that helped me (got this from matt sims... creator of the 009... a ts osmosis 540+ole 360=ts 900 in which you only have the handle for 2/5 of it and you have to whip it over your head for that 2/5ths... apparently he knows a thing or two about hitting the wake ts) was to initiate my cut progress and stand tall up the wake w/ my front elbow at a 90 and the handle at my waist about 8in from my hip... just edge hard through the top of the wake and you're there... it's a long way across there... i wouldn't drop line length or speed unless you're having trouble landing ... may need to give that some practice on the shorter line if necessary

Chels06
07-26-2008, 06:54 PM
Hey guys. My name is Chels and I have been boarding for about nine years. When I first started jumping the wake was really difficult, but how I learned is first: you have to realize that you are probably going to fall between the wakes. But it is just water, so you dont need to pysch yourself out. Second: Gain balance. Even though you might feel comfortable riding, you have to be able to control your balance when you land. Third: Dont rush, let the boat lead you, and try to pull back as far as you can with your knees bent. I learned that I can catch more air when I lean all the way back, esp when I am riding rails or doing major tricks. Fourth: Always keep your knees bent. Fifth: Maintain your edge through the wake. Don't flatten the board on the water as you approach the wake. Keep your balance on your board. When you come to about 2-3 feet from the wake begin your pop by trying to stand upright. You will feel like you are losing your balance but take control of it. While in the air keep your head up. Don't look down. Your wakeboard should be pointing towards your landing spot. When going to land bend your knees with keeping an equal balance! There ya go!! Most importantly dont be afraid to fall and keep practicing even if you fall!!!
<3 Chels

vision
07-26-2008, 10:02 PM
Thanks for all the input for a beginner who is learning from this thread. It is appreciated.

My wakeboarding is like my golf game, when I endulged in that sport. About every 15th golf shot would be like hitting a soft marshmallow, and with what seemed like an effortless swing the ball would fly long and true. The other 14 swings sucked!

About every 15th HS wake jump (every 30th TS) I am surprised by significant pop with minimal effort. The rope develops a little slack in the air allowing me to keep a good position or make a solid grab or simple 180, and I land softly with minimal tension on the line. The other 14 I have lousy height, land with significant tension on the line, and struggle to keep good balance.

Now if I could only find that sweet spot every time.

MCDriven
07-29-2008, 06:51 PM
All these pointers have really helped my riding. Consistent W2W both HS & TS, getting some grabs (melon and nose), backscratcher (where you bend knees to bring board behind you to your butt) and almost landed a raley (by accident - hucked a backscratcher and it sailed on me - got it back underneath to avoid edge catching but just barely so I lost it after a tough fight). Also now have Switch TS & HS FS 180's to go with TS FS 180 (can't land a regular HS FS 180 on that Switch TS yet, but I'm pretty good at wiping out 120's!) - all W2W. Was getting W2W HS, 1 wake TS FS 180 and occassional W2W TS - all only a foot or two off the water - before July 4. These tips (and my wife endlessly dragging me around the lake on weekends) really helped - but I still suck.

I think I still have too much tension on the rope. Can only get the grabs listed above HS - can't let go with my back hand to get indy, etc. Any pointers from you more experienced riders as to what I might be doing wrong that's creating the line tension? I know it's hard to diagnose without seeing me in action (so to speak).

vision
07-29-2008, 09:09 PM
Excellent progression McDriven! I think you and I are at the same spot in our riding, although I am behind you on the toe side stuff. I have not tried the back scratcher for fear of a face plant. Do you feel rushed doing it?

If you figure out the secret to line tension, let me know.

I am tempted to take another lesson from our local pro where we do nothing but evaluate pop and line tension on every pass. I bet that would be boring as hell for the Pro!

MCDriven
07-30-2008, 09:35 AM
Sometimes a little rushed, but usually no - particularly when you get the pop just right and it feels like you will be up there all day. Seems like the survival instinct kicks in and gets the board back underneath you pretty naturally.

Need to get down and ride with your pro. Definitely boring for him, but that's why they charge us the big bucks.

On the line tension, I am going to try WX2W's tip about giving the rope a little tug in the air next time I go. I'll let you know if it helps. Hopefully some of these guys who know what they are doing will chime in.

wakeX2wake
07-30-2008, 10:46 AM
try going out and landing with one hand on the rope... i started getting the shanks earlier this week and i had to go back and i just jumped the wake back and forth continuously about 10 times and then i landed w/ one hand about 10 times in the same fashion... it's our crew's little mechanism to get rid of the shanks... it's kind of funny b/c you have to do it all in the same pull and you've got somebody in the boat counting for you and if you sketch out and fall you have to start all over... it's kind of like "hey you got the shanks... WAKE JUMP DRILL"... kind of like our own little version of the "around the world" basketball game

for sure give the rope a little tug when you're in the air... give it a good pull especailly when you see that you're coming up a little short... it'll pull you on across that other wake...it makes landing soooo much smoother and make sure you're edging all the way through the wake...

also... w/ your ts jumps... if you want to land them 1 handed... when you're in the air take your hand off the handle and reach for the bank on that side... this will force you to lean out over your toes which is the key to landing pretty much anything ts and making it look fluid

MCDriven
07-30-2008, 12:51 PM
Thanks again WX2W - your advice has been very helpful. You are the man. Unfortunately, my family would disown me if I made them sit through your wake jump drill, but sounds like a great idea. Maybe I'll do 5 each for a warm up. Cool tradition though. My crew/family's tradition is to ask me if I'm ready to get back in the boat yet when I fall! When they count to 10, it's a signal to get in the boat before they're done or they're leaving me in the middle of the lake! (Actually their patience with my obsession is remarkable.)

I will try the rope pull in the air next time out. I've been working on your other pointers and haven't got this into my routine yet. Softer landings sound great - we took a 3 day weekend last week and my front (left) leg is killing me from absorbing the landings (at least I've progressed to the point where there is something to absorb!). I have definitely learned edging through the wake is key - everytime I fall on a simple W2W at this point is because I let off before the top.

On your TS 1 hand pointer, are you saying if I take my right hand off, reach it towards the bank over my right shoulder and if I take my left hand off, reach it towards the left or should I extend either arm behind me away from the boat to force me over the toes? Practicing with the 1 handed landing sounds like the way to go (walk with a one handed landing before you learn to run with a grab).

Thanks again.

wakeX2wake
07-30-2008, 01:56 PM
well we have a rule that when you land something new that when you land it 10 times you can say you can "do" it then and if you do it 10 times during a day (2-3 sets) then it's considered "dialed"... a good friend can almost say he can do an ole ts 540... it's funny watching him do it b/c if he comes up short on it he just makes it a 3 (when he doesn't sketch out on his butt or pull up something between a 3 and a 5 i guess that would be a 450 "technically")... we keep telling him he's got the ole 3s down he needs to be working on the 5s... i/we are firm believers in consistent riding not this sporadic throw something HUGE and land it 2 out of 10 times... i go back to the basics quite often... if you get those dialed everything else will come... i hate seeing someone who can't jump ts w2w throwing a tantrum... like my roommate... HEELSIDE HERO

i was talking about your ts jumps and your half cab (switch hs 180).... anything youre having trouble w/ that has a ts landing if you'll attempt (don't necessarily have to grab it but act like it) an indy grab or just reaching for the shore w/ your back hand it'll pull your shoulder on over and land you on your toes which is how you want to land... another helper if you'll land with the rope just in front of your front hip it'll make life a lot easier b/c you'll be able to correct for muff ups

on your ts 1 just get your pop and pull the handle... and STAY BACK on your heels... those are some gruesome falls if you don't... (i just completely got the shakes thinking about a w2w ts fs 1 to IMMEDIATE pancake... those are the kind that will put you out a few days)

MCDriven
07-30-2008, 03:58 PM
I follow you - great tip, thanks. It's landing the regular HS FS 180 where you land TS Switch that is getting me - I essentialy do a 120 and slide out. This should help. I can past your test Switch HS FS 1's as my regular TS landing is strong enough.

I am with you on mastering the basics - trying to have a little patience. I also know where you are coming from on your last point - I did a TS FS 90 Faceplant a couple of weeks ago when I was tired and indecisive and didn't get back on my heels that absolutely ruined my day.

wakeX2wake
08-06-2008, 05:21 PM
a couple of my riding buddies as i decided to get the camera out and use it seeing as my ankle is the size of my HEAD

o and another thing... when doing a half cab over your buddy remember to... GET YOUR POP... didn't hit but it was DANG close... hahaha good stuff...
38715

and kyle got emory back w/ the scare of his life by missing his pop on his scarecrow... POP IS IMPORTANT... especailly when jumping your buddy
38716

both landed the tricks... but they were UGLY... and i was pretty sure they had killed each other

does ANY one know what happened to the " Official Wakeboarding Pictures Thread"?

MCDriven
08-06-2008, 08:13 PM
Looks like it also helps to have short buddies or buddies with quick reflexes and good knees!

Cool shots. Hope your ankle is better soon. I am riding this weekend after a weekend off to take my son to New York.

turbosdad
09-03-2008, 02:53 PM
I ride switch whenever my arm starts getting tired riding regular, or whenever there's a stretch of chop Ive gotta ride through, or even when you get to a turn around. Really helps get you comfortable riding switch without taking away form your w2w jumps.
Great advice!!!!!!!!

dwhegler
09-05-2008, 03:48 PM
I am a 40+ year old trying to wakeboard so know how you all feel. I can do TS 180 almost W2W and HS W2W almost. I want to jump higher but think mentally I am holding back because I don't want any injuries. I can do some surface stuff. The TS is hardest. I can't cross back to do 180 because of my edging and feel like I need to put my face into the water to get back to the wake. I took my fins off so I was wondering if I should put them back on to help with the edging. Any advise? I live at Lake Wylie, SC. for those that are close. All the information is helpful in this tread. I am like an engineer so always analyzing and thinking where feet, arms, etc. should be first before trying it. I am visual too so I learn seeing others.

MCDriven
09-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Put fins back on for a while. They will help a little with the edging, but you really edge with the rail and built in fins. They center fins help most when you're flat on your board, which is rare for a pro but unfortunately too frequent for us novices. You should take off and land on your edge, but the fins we help if you land flat.

Will make surfance tricks a little harder. You should still be able to do them if you get some good bend in your knees, but if your board came with huge fins like a lot of entry level boards, you may want to buy some smaller ones.

Eventually the fins are superfluous, which is why the pro's get rid of them, but they will help you learn and get more confident on your board.

Best advice is the Parks Bonifay quote from wX2w's signature - just throw it! If you follow the techniques in this thread, you will find you fall a lot less often anyway.

wakeX2wake
09-08-2008, 12:26 PM
i have always heard form the real riders that the fewer fins the better but i don't know if i totally agree personally... i have the 08 ibex board and i took the fins off and rode it that way for about a week and i liked it better with them on... board was much less likely to skid on me and i went to cut in switch HS and hit the was regular ts... yea it was a surprise to me too... i hit it and and rolled w/ it but it look muffed up and i put the fins back on and still have no problem doing surface stuff... as for your board... ??? i'd keep the center fin but i wouldn't have one larger than an inch or so... it doesn't take much fin to serve the purpose of that center fin

dwhegler
09-08-2008, 02:29 PM
When I took off my fins I did not have a problem with board going sideways. I work out. I felt it a little easier to move around with fins off but I think over time I have gotten sloppy and not edging when I should. I just know when I tried my first surface trick I did a face plant that I still remember to this day. I need to learn to hop and do the 180. It seems like without the fins the board would be more forgiven than with them on. I did practice holding the handle close to my left hip and knees bent.

vision
09-08-2008, 08:09 PM
dwhegler, the folks on this thread have been quite helpful for me so you have come to the right place. I am 48 and so I can empathize with your position.

I am a novice so take my advice with a grain of salt. I think you are better to learn with no center fins. It forces you to learn proper edging. But as WakeX2Wake said, this is dependent on your board. I learned initially on a Roam board and while it was a PITA, it taught me good edging.

The other helpful tip for me was to set goals. It was easy for me to simply do what I could and not progress. So I set goals for each outing, and for each Season. I ride 50% switched every set. I force myself not to do a trick I have mastered on more than 50% of my passes. My season goals this year were to master 3 inverts (HS backrolls, TS backrolls, and tantrums), and get consistent TS W2W. I probably will not achieve those goals, but just practicing them and trying them has improved my overall riding.

Two last suggestions. I have gone to riding a MPH slower and 5 feet shorter rope. This gives me less hang time than my son and most of the folks I ride with (who are 15 to 30 years younger). But, 1 - 2 MPH can give a split second longer to make sure your body position is correct while on your approach, and a little easier to spot landings. Lastly, my greatest deficit in being able to land tricks is core body strength and coordination. I fear there is nothing I can do to regain the coordination I had at 25. But, improving my abdominal and back strength makes a noticeable difference.

dwhegler
09-10-2008, 10:49 AM
vision, I have a Liquid Force board. I can't remember the model but it is suppose to be a good all around board for beginner and work with you when you get better. One of my friends and I have a paid lessons next week. He wants to do a flip and I want to get good form when I do toeside and hopefully gain confidence I can do w2w. I understand what you are saying about having goals. Here lately I just go out and do the same old stuff. I wanted to do the 180 just popping the board while traveling on one side but could not. My wife slowed the boat down but maybe not enough. I will take your advice and set a goal each session. I have fun just being out there on the water. These guys on the youtube make it look so easy. Do you all know if "The Book" series is good instructional videos? Do you all wear a helmet?

MCDriven
09-10-2008, 12:14 PM
The Book is excellent and they reduced the price down to $60 - get it.

I don't wear a helmet but am not known for my common sense when it comes to protecting myself from injury (have metal plates in my left arm and right leg from separate hockey incidents).

By the way, on your Ollie 180, if you slow the boat down, you need to edge out to get some speed, go flat on your board and quickly pop it. The speed makes the water harder and therefore you get more pop with your Ollie. Of course, speed makes the falls harder and therein lies the trade off.

dwhegler
09-15-2008, 03:29 PM
I ordered "The Book". I am downloading the mobile version to my MP3 player so I can view them on the boat. I was able to w2k. The key for me was knowing I had enough speed to make it across. After a few falls I was able to zoom over. I am still not standing up yet to get in the air but at least I am getting somewhere.

MCDriven
09-15-2008, 05:18 PM
Congrats dwegler - sounds like you're progressing. May want to go back and read the first 3 pages or so of this thread. Better to do it with technique than speed. As a coverted slalom skier, I was all speed. I spent all summer this year re-teaching myself to ride with proper technique. Pretty consistent both sides now - into the flats most of the time. A lot less falls that way too - going for it basecd on pure speed sets you up to fall whereas you're taking off and landing on the same (and correct) edge with the proper technique.

Was working on standing tall this weekend - man that makes a difference when you time it right!

dwhegler
09-16-2008, 02:56 PM
Thanks! Now that I know I can cross then I will work on technique. I am landing on progressive edge HS and then flat board out to slow down. At least in the flats I will not do a face plant. Last week I had a big fall while attempting w2k. Still got that knot. From videos it appears standing tall happens before you crest the top. I am going to work on that next. I don't have any habits to break as I did not ski or slalom before. My neighbor slaloms but have not seen him wakeboard yet. My lesson was cancelled today due to weather.

vision
09-16-2008, 03:59 PM
With whom are you taking your lesson?

dwhegler
09-16-2008, 04:38 PM
SouthTown Riders in Fort Mill, SC.