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View Full Version : 85 351, have a few questions


jmcentire
06-10-2008, 10:19 PM
So I have had my 1985 190 for about a month now and am getting ready to do some maintenance. While looking at the engine I have a few questions, this is my first time working on an "older" engine so be patient.

http://www.mcentirefam.com/tmc/engine1.jpg

1.
http://www.mcentirefam.com/tmc/1.jpg

Is that supposed to be like that? Doesn't seem correct to me...

2.
http://www.mcentirefam.com/tmc/2.jpg

What is this thing and are the wires coming out of it supposed to be hooked up to anything?

3.
http://www.mcentirefam.com/tmc/3.jpg

This looks correct, but I was just wondering what it was.

jmcentire
06-10-2008, 10:20 PM
Also this is the stock ignition correct? And is that inline fuel filter supposed to be there since there is a spin on filter before the fuel pump?
http://www.mcentirefam.com/tmc/dist.jpg
I will do some searches but does anyone have some links on electronic ignition upgrade?

One more question, did this boat originally come with a lanyard or kill switch? I got stuck on the lake last night because it would not start, so I want to know if that is another item I need to check when troubleshooting. Here is another two pics just for fun:

http://www.mcentirefam.com/tmc/engine2.jpg

http://www.mcentirefam.com/tmc/boat1.jpg

Thanks Everyone!

flipper
06-10-2008, 10:39 PM
Can't help ya much other than #1 doesn't look right to me. What a beautiful boat though!!!!

kjb
06-10-2008, 11:05 PM
#1 looks like a car water pump with the heater hoses blocked off, if that is what it is, it will not hurt anything

BrianM
06-10-2008, 11:17 PM
#2 is the water temperature sending unit. #3 is the oil pressure sending unit. Ignition looks pretty normal for a standard points setup. That additional inline fuel filter is not going to hurt anything. No kill switch/lanyard on the '85.

jmcentire
06-10-2008, 11:54 PM
Thanks for all the information! On the water temp sending unit the wires coming out of it are not hooked up to anything that I can tell, but the temp gauge does work, maybe since it is closed loop cooling it has another sending unit somewhere else.

I am thinking about switching to electronic ignition, which one do you recommend? I've seen the one on skidim.com but it looks like PerTronix has theirs for quite a bit cheaper.

One more question, this boat was run at sea level and I now run it on average at about 5000 feet elevation, should I change the jets in the carb or can I adjust it for the difference, or do I need to do anything?


Thanks Again!

Cloaked
06-11-2008, 12:12 AM
Put an electronic ignition conversion kit on it. Best $150 you'll spend on it.

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RP173071

That looks like an older engine (not that that is a bad thing).

Here's an engine from an 85 that I am more familiar. Basically the same engine. Yours should have an engine serial number (on a metal tag near the top side rear of the engine). That will tell the story on the engine. You can see the serial tag on this engine right behind the carb.


.

rob935
06-11-2008, 05:38 AM
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=3533&highlight=electronic+ignition

use this thread to see how to convert to electronic ignition which is a job worth doing for complete peace of mind if nothing else !!

#1 sure doesnt look right to me , i would say its gonna restrict the flow of water cooling the engine which could lead to an overheat when the engine is under load or at high revs for a lengthy session, replace with a proper marine hose (usually will have an inner coil to prevent kinking ).

best of luck.

gigem75
06-11-2008, 05:31 PM
the water sending unit is in the photo of the dist, above it, screwed into the intake manifold. the one at the bottom near the fuel pump is the oil pressure sending unit. Blocking off the heater hoses won't hurt but the backing plate is probably not Stainless and the impler is not bronze and it won't last as long as the auto one.

learjet2230
06-11-2008, 10:54 PM
That is a car water pump as stated earlier and those are the heater hoses. Boat pumps have plugs in them. If you are going to convert to Elec. ign., why not get a whole new distributor for $50 bucks more. Mallory makes one for marine that is nice and you can get it at Summitt Racing, jegs, etc.... One in my boat and works well although I have it coupled with MSD ing. box too!!

cbryan70
06-11-2008, 11:00 PM
Put an electronic ignition conversion kit on it. Best $150 you'll spend on it.

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RP173071

That looks like an older engine (not that that is a bad thing).

Here's an engine from an 85 that I am more familiar. Basically the same engine. Yours should have an engine serial number (on a metal tag near the top side rear of the engine). That will tell the story on the engine. You can see the serial tag on this engine right behind the carb.


.
that motor looks the EXACT same as my 78.....i just dont have the plastic thing on the back of the motor

454Prostar190
06-12-2008, 11:27 AM
I have a question. What is the canister on top of the engine with the radiator cap for? Rick

454Prostar190
06-12-2008, 11:31 AM
By the way... Very nice looking boat! I like the color scheme :)

GuitsBoy
06-12-2008, 11:41 AM
If you are going to convert to Elec. ign., why not get a whole new distributor for $50 bucks more.
Looks to be about 110 more at summit...

Willski
06-12-2008, 12:46 PM
Looks like someone stole the stars off of that boat!!!!

TMCNo1
06-12-2008, 01:00 PM
I have a question. What is the canister on top of the engine with the radiator cap for? Rick


Closed cooling system apparently.

jmcentire
06-12-2008, 02:51 PM
According to previous owner, it is OEM closed loop cooling.

Thanks for the compliments, and yes the stars are gone along with the original logo on the transom(someone changed it to the early 90s logo). However last week i removed all of the logos(side ones were in pretty bad shape) and plan on replacing them with the original mid 80s logos, I haven't decided about the stars yet though(currently leaning towards adding them to make it look all original).

The full distributors on summit are not marine rated(the ones i found anyway) does that matter? It looks like the pertronix electric conversion kit is $75 (Part# 1581, this is the correct part right?).

Thanks

denverd1
06-12-2008, 03:36 PM
When you got stuck on the water, I assume it wouldn't click or turn over or anything right. no sound whatsoever --> Neutral Safety Switch. Its on the transmission, have someone work the throttle forward and back while you look at the trans, pretty much the only moving part on the outside. manually move it for and aft to find where it should be. then adjust the linkage so that it comes to rest completely in neutral.

454Prostar190
06-12-2008, 03:37 PM
Closed cooling system apparently.

My thoughts exactly. But, what would be the reason for that?:confused:

flipper
06-12-2008, 03:41 PM
My thoughts exactly. But, what would be the reason for that?:confused:

You don't have to worry about debris in the water clogging stuff up, salt water, are a couple reasons I know of. Also I would think you would put anti freeze in them so you don't have to worry about freezing.

denverd1
06-12-2008, 03:48 PM
lots of recent paint too. still on the belts...

denverd1
06-12-2008, 03:50 PM
Oh yea, I wouldn't worry about the temp sending unit you noted in pic 2. Looks like there is another sender on the intake manifold and is all wired up. (distributor pic)

454Prostar190
06-12-2008, 03:59 PM
You don't have to worry about debris in the water clogging stuff up, salt water, are a couple reasons I know of. Also I would think you would put anti freeze in them so you don't have to worry about freezing.

Thank you, Flipper:o That makes sense. I see something like that... and I want to know why and how it works!:( Rick

flipper
06-12-2008, 04:16 PM
Thank you, Flipper:o That makes sense. I see something like that... and I want to know why and how it works!:( Rick

I know what you mean.....then I wanna take it apart to see what's inside.:D

learjet2230
06-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Summit pn is MAA-YLM554CV It is a marine unit and 259.95. I'll check Jegs

EricB
06-12-2008, 04:34 PM
Ya know, maybe it's my old eyes, but the thing in picture #2 looks alot like the remote oil drain. I don't think it's a sensor at all. Follow the hose...I think it leads to the oil pan.

jmcentire
06-12-2008, 04:51 PM
learjet: thanks for the p/n good to know in case my distributor ever has problems, for now though I think I will go with the conversion kit since it is about $185 cheaper.

flipper & 454prostar: On this boat raw water gets pumped in normally but instead of going though the engine it travels into a heat exchanger similar to the one below(from what i understand anyway) the anti-freeze in this picture would enter at the ends and travel though the tubes, the raw water enters and exits the shell side cooling the anti-freeze as it passes through:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Straight-tube_heat_exchanger_1-pass.PNG

The heat exchanger is mounted under the starboard exhaust manifold (you can kind of see it in the first picture). The system on this boat is a half system so after the raw water exits the heat exchanger it goes to the manifolds. The anti-freeze circulates through the engine.

It is supposed to help rust and corrosion, and also keep the engine at optimum temperature for better combustion which is a little hotter than most raw water cooled boats.

I am the same type of person, I have to figure out how stuff works, so that is what I learned while I was looking at buying this boat.

jmcentire
06-12-2008, 05:00 PM
When you got stuck on the water, I assume it wouldn't click or turn over or anything right. no sound whatsoever --> Neutral Safety Switch. Its on the transmission, have someone work the throttle forward and back while you look at the trans, pretty much the only moving part on the outside. manually move it for and aft to find where it should be. then adjust the linkage so that it comes to rest completely in neutral.

Well, the engine would turn, but from my troubleshooting so far I am not getting spark, I believe my problem is the points, so I have just ordered an electronic conversion kit (along with new plugs, wires, cap, and coil) since I'm not sure how old any of that stuff is I might as well replace it all. Also ordered a renew kit for the carb, extra set of belts, and an impeller. Got cold here again(snowed at my house yesterday) so I'll have a little time to work on it before I go out again.

454Prostar190
06-12-2008, 05:17 PM
learjet: thanks for the p/n good to know in case my distributor ever has problems, for now though I think I will go with the conversion kit since it is about $185 cheaper.

flipper & 454prostar: On this boat raw water gets pumped in normally but instead of going though the engine it travels into a heat exchanger similar to the one below(from what i understand anyway) the anti-freeze in this picture would enter at the ends and travel though the tubes, the raw water enters and exits the shell side cooling the anti-freeze as it passes through:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Straight-tube_heat_exchanger_1-pass.PNG

The heat exchanger is mounted under the starboard exhaust manifold (you can kind of see it in the first picture). The system on this boat is a half system so after the raw water exits the heat exchanger it goes to the manifolds. The anti-freeze circulates through the transmission cooler and the engine.

It is supposed to help rust and corrosion, and also keep the engine at optimum temperature for better combustion which is a little hotter than most raw water cooled boats.

I am the same type of person, I have to figure out how stuff works, so that is what I learned while I was looking at buying this boat.

Thank you for the lesson! I totally understand now:D! In essence... The heat exchanger is acting as the radiator, allowing for a closed system. Hence, the raw water never enters the engine for cooling. Rick

flipper
06-12-2008, 05:21 PM
learjet: thanks for the p/n good to know in case my distributor ever has problems, for now though I think I will go with the conversion kit since it is about $185 cheaper.

flipper & 454prostar: On this boat raw water gets pumped in normally but instead of going though the engine it travels into a heat exchanger similar to the one below(from what i understand anyway) the anti-freeze in this picture would enter at the ends and travel though the tubes, the raw water enters and exits the shell side cooling the anti-freeze as it passes through:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Straight-tube_heat_exchanger_1-pass.PNG

The heat exchanger is mounted under the starboard exhaust manifold (you can kind of see it in the first picture). The system on this boat is a half system so after the raw water exits the heat exchanger it goes to the manifolds. The anti-freeze circulates through the transmission cooler and the engine.

It is supposed to help rust and corrosion, and also keep the engine at optimum temperature for better combustion which is a little hotter than most raw water cooled boats.

I am the same type of person, I have to figure out how stuff works, so that is what I learned while I was looking at buying this boat.

Thanks!!!! Great explanation.

Hollywood
06-13-2008, 11:37 AM
That additional inline fuel filter is not going to hurt anything.

I disagree. That is a safety concern. The pressurized side of the fuel pump (pump to carb) should be metal. This is a USCG regulation. There are approved rubber hose and filters available, but they are $$$$ and what is pictured should be used between the tank and pump.

c_pohja
06-13-2008, 06:30 PM
That is the same motor as my 84, closed cooling and all. I got rid of the points, have a little different manifold setup. My boat was originally delivered in Hawaii so the closed cooling was for the salt water. Motor as since been boiled and completly rebuilt. See the link for pics

http://tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=22352

Also, I say put the stars back on. These S&S's are the best looking boats on the water!!!

454Prostar190
06-13-2008, 07:00 PM
That is the same motor as my 84, closed cooling and all. I got rid of the points, have a little different manifold setup. My boat was originally delivered in Hawaii so the closed cooling was for the salt water. Motor as since been boiled and completly rebuilt. See the link for pics

http://tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=22352

Also, I say put the stars back on. These S&S's are the best looking boats on the water!!!

c pohja, I really like this closed loop system and the chrome on your engine but, I still have a question and maybe you can help me out. The raw water comes into the water pump, to the heat exchanger, cools the coolant for the engine and then goes where? Through the exhaust and back out? Thanks, Rick

TMCNo1
06-13-2008, 09:02 PM
c pohja, I really like this closed loop system and the chrome on your engine but, I still have a question and maybe you can help me out. The raw water comes into the water pump, to the heat exchanger, cools the coolant for the engine and then goes where? Through the exhaust and back out? Thanks, Rick

Correct, out of the heat exchanger into the exhaust manifolds to cool them then out the exhaust like normal.

c_pohja
06-16-2008, 07:27 PM
Thanks TMC,

I have only had this boat for about a year, and never had a closed cooling system on an MC before. So far I have had no issues with it, but i do worry about having all of the extra parts on a 20 year old motor. We will see how it does.

The manifolds are a lot different on my boat also. Never seen any others like them. If sombody has any info they could share that would be great

P.S. Had the boat out this weekend and it ran GREAT

jmcentire
07-11-2008, 01:59 PM
Ya know, maybe it's my old eyes, but the thing in picture #2 looks alot like the remote oil drain. I don't think it's a sensor at all. Follow the hose...I think it leads to the oil pan.

Nice work EricB, changed the oil last night and the thing in pic 2 is the remote oil drain.