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View Full Version : How to on replacing Transmission Seals


rholmes
06-07-2008, 03:23 PM
Have undertaken the project of removing transmission and replacing seals (tranny fluid in bilge, leaking from area of bellhousing, possibly out of starter hole). I removed all the necessary componets first. Right now, I am stuck on getting the tranny actually off. I can't seem to get it slide of to me. I guess the splined shaft is a little stuck. Anywho, here is the progress so far.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2965.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2966.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2967.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2968.jpg

Bottle jacks were $9 each at harbor freight tools. Silent Master Exhaust really didn't want to come off either. I soaked down everyting with WD40 the night before and let it sit to loosen up. All the tranny bolts, engine mounts, etc broke very easily by doing this.

rholmes
06-07-2008, 03:26 PM
Here is where I am stuck. If you look where the tranny connects to the bell housing, you can see a little gap. This is as far as I can get the tranny to come off right now. I am drinking some beer and taking a break while soaking my knuckles in hydrogen peroxide while I try to gfigure out another way to get this done. So far, wiggling, jiggling and pulling and yanking with the assistance of a small pry bar and two screwdrivers has not helped. Sheesh.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2969.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2970.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2971.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2972.jpg

JLeuck64
06-07-2008, 08:33 PM
I am just guessing based on my own experience with my later model MC. It has one of the Hurth transmissions in it. My trans does have a bolt or two that holds the bell housing onto the transmission body that is only accessible from the inside. Meaning I had to pull the bell housing with the transmission to separate it from the back of the engine block.

Some one else that has experience pulling the PCM trans should come along shortly to help ya! Based on what I am seeing in your pics would lead me to believe you need to pull the bell housing with the tranny...

pup
06-07-2008, 08:51 PM
Those pics show all the bell housing bolts still installed . Remove the bolts that hold the section with the circuit breaker box.

vogelm1
06-08-2008, 11:55 AM
I've never removed a trans in a boat, but my first reaction in seeing the pics was that you need to move up closer to the engine and remove the bolts on the bellhousing first. :)

rholmes
06-15-2008, 08:22 PM
Finally, success! It took three weeks, but I finally got the darn thing off. I was really starting to sweat it. Anyways, it took two massive (inch thick plus) chisels on both side of the motor being wacked in to get the tranny off, after 48 hours stints of soaking in WD40, PB Blaster, etc, even a couple rounds of navel jelly. So what do you think, can I clean up the damper plate and re-use it?:D Only 18years of salt water environment and this thing never having been off before.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/000_0092.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/000_0089.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/000_0088.jpg

rholmes
06-15-2008, 08:23 PM
Few more of the carnage.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/000_0083.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/000_0087.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/000_0081.jpg

carisch
06-16-2008, 10:07 PM
Congrats, that's a lot of rust. Are you planning on replacing the whole thing?

I will be getting in to replace seals soon, and I'll be honest, I'm very nervous.

Carisch.

rholmes
06-17-2008, 01:03 AM
The damper plate, yes. The tranny, no. It just needs new seals. I will be doing a pictorial of the seal replacement. I put navel jelly on all the parts with rust today to clean them up. They came out looking great. Got some primer, primer sealer and a coat of high temp black paint. Ready to roll!

mayo93prostar
06-17-2008, 07:58 AM
quite the project. good job so far. I am glad to hear you are replacing the damper plate since it is pretty rusted. this is helpful and interesting because I have 93 prostar on the maryland coast and the engine and tranny are similar. I sure hope mine is not as rusted inside as yours was. I have same valve covers but I have powerslot tranny where you have 1:1. be sure to show pics of cleaned up unit and reassembly.

TMCNo1
06-17-2008, 11:42 AM
And people wonder why I am so anal about not having any water in my bilge!

JDK
06-17-2008, 11:45 AM
The tranny, no. It just needs new seals.

You're going to check the input and output bearings too.... right?
In my experience, there's usually a reason seals start to leak.

rholmes
06-17-2008, 01:19 PM
The leak developed after I... ahem... ran the boat aground last summer during our drought. Let me tell you, if you are new to the area and don't know anything about your lakes, don't get gun-ho like me. I buried the rudder about half way in mud. It hopped out of the boat after beaching it and the water was up to my shins, knees in some places. Whoops! (It took two boston whalers with 120hp OB's to get me out. Now they have some shallow drafts.

rholmes
06-29-2008, 01:19 AM
Okay, been a while since I updated and figured I would post what I have so far. The bearings checked out fine. It ended up being the front shaft seal, it had started to wiggle its way out. I repainted and smoothed out the surface of the bell housing. Being aluminum, there were a few pry marks from working the tranny off. Be careful when you go to remove for any else. I ended up getting a damper plate from a local guy, he had an old one in stock. I spray painted it Rustoleum Red to hopefully prevent corrosion from like that ever happening again. I used navel jelly on all the rusted parts to clear up any surface patches. I also repainted the tranny black. On the input shaft, I quite generously put a ton of anti-sieze on it (the kind used on brake calipers). I don't ever want to go through that again. Everything lined back up fine. I also ran a tap and die through and on all the removed bolts and holes. I ran out of daylight, so currently the transmission is mounted back on, motor mount attached all lined up. I need to double check my alignement, but all seems fine. I haven't been able to re-attach the exhaust or blower as I plan to do a bilge rinse with one of those cleaners to make sure the oil, wd40, pb blaster, etc. is all gone from the hull. I'll post those pics after I get it done tomorrow. Been out for two weeks with work and haven't had time to button up. Ah well. Here you go for wrapped up pics!

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2979.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2980.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2981.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2982.jpg

skibtlvr4evr
06-29-2008, 09:50 AM
My seals on tranny were gone on a 1987 ski eliminator left in woods for 4 years. They dry out because they get no lubrication from sitting. I suggest you take tranny to someone who can test it for you because seals are easy and installation is a pain in the butt. Cost me $500 to have tranny rebuilt and well worth it. I restored boat, new floor and interior with other knuckle busters along the way. Good luck

rholmes
07-03-2008, 01:05 PM
Here she is all buttoned up and the bilge cleaned out. Work really takes away from me finishing this up. I need one good day of nothing but boat time. My 2 year old makes that really hard too!

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2986.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2987.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2988.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rholmes69/1990%20Maristar/100_2989.jpg

M-Funf
07-03-2008, 02:53 PM
Nice work!

flipper
07-03-2008, 03:36 PM
looks good

GuitsBoy
07-03-2008, 04:34 PM
For a salt water environment, youre boat guts look pretty clean. Nice documentation.

Footin
07-03-2008, 05:20 PM
Nice job, but I have one suggestion: you bolted on the ground cable to that pretty new paint, I would take it off and sand the painted finish down to metal. This may not be a problem, but I have seen this cause for a bad ground.

rholmes
07-04-2008, 02:16 AM
Thanks everyone. It has definitely been a trying process at times. I actually thought about the ground issue and went back and did took a wire brush to get the metal back. These pics were before the fix! Thanks for catching that and bringing it to future rebuilders attention! Got her cranked up today and started trying to dial in the carb I rebuilt. The boat won't get over 130F though and the idel is staying around 900rpms. Wasn't doing that before the rebuild (the high idle that is). The saga continues....

woodskier
07-14-2008, 01:40 PM
You are an inspiration to the non-mechanics, or novice mechanics like myself. It seems like I have transmission fliud leaking into the bildge from where the bell housing meets the engin block. Is this flywheel/damper plate area lubricated by the transmission oil as well? I actually found small rubber pieces looking like a seal in the bildge. Is the the front or rear seal?, or something else.

End of last season I had water in the transmisson fluid, and some in the bildge, I removed the cooler and it tested ok at the radiator shop. Checked cooler hoses etc. Drained and replaced the transmission fluid a few times on dry land, and just got the boat in the water after replacing an exhaust Manifold that leaked. The fluid level in the transmission is no longer frothing, but seems like it may still have some water. Also, even with the leak, the fluid level does not seem to change much. May be more then one problem, but looking for some help so I can talk intelligently to a mechanic, or transmisson guy, or both. Do not have time or knowledge to tackle this myself, but it is killing me having the boat in the water, and not feel like I should use it, or I might damage it more. ( yes/no?) I put a diaper in the bildge to determine where the leak was , and how much fluid was leaking. Pretty much filled it up in a 2 hour easy cruise on the lake I live on, but it only seems to leak after I shut it down. I plan on draining the fluid again tonight when I get home, and let it sit to see if there is still water in it. Any suggestions would be helpful. I am pretty handy, but never delt with a tranny before.
Thanks in advance, I probably should just have started my own thread.

rholmes
07-14-2008, 10:43 PM
The area inside the bell housing where the damper plate is bolted to the flywheel should be completely dry. No lubing of any sort takes place in there. There is a metal plate (like a gasket) that goes between the flywheel and the block that the bellhousing gets bolted through. On mine, it had rubber gasket maker around it that was flaking off in places. This sounds like the issue you are having with the rubber bits in the bilge. Where the input shaft is on the tranny is what slides into the damper plate. Around the input shaft was a rubber seal that has (mine did) a metal ring cased in rubber to help keep its form. Mine was pretty chewed up, and the transmission under power was pumping oil out past the shaft and into the bellhousing, getting caught and whipped around by the flywheel teeth, eventually leaking. It sounds like your leak is coming from the bell housing area, I thought mine was coming from the bottom, but it ended up coming from the starter hole and then running along the bell housing to drip in the center. Try squeezing a mirror down there to look along the area to identify a leak. The water in the tranny is cause for concern if you leave it. It could eventually cause the fluid to fail and the gears to burn up. Does the fluid look like pepto bismol? Did the water level ever get high enough in the bilge to be level with the bottom of the bellhousing or where the cooler lines leave the tranny?

woodskier
07-15-2008, 04:06 PM
The damper plate, yes. The tranny, no. It just needs new seals. I will be doing a pictorial of the seal replacement. I put navel jelly on all the parts with rust today to clean them up. They came out looking great. Got some primer, primer sealer and a coat of high temp black paint. Ready to roll!
Where in the NE are you and where did you get the $500 quote for the rebuild. I just spoke with Atlantis Marine Gear Supply in Mass ( I am in Natick Ma.) and they quoted me $850-$900. How long ago did you get it done. I plan on doing my Warner 1:52:1 Popwerslot this fall. Any info would be helpful

woodskier
07-15-2008, 04:33 PM
The area inside the bell housing where the damper plate is bolted to the flywheel should be completely dry. No lubing of any sort takes place in there. There is a metal plate (like a gasket) that goes between the flywheel and the block that the bellhousing gets bolted through. On mine, it had rubber gasket maker around it that was flaking off in places. This sounds like the issue you are having with the rubber bits in the bilge. Where the input shaft is on the tranny is what slides into the damper plate. Around the input shaft was a rubber seal that has (mine did) a metal ring cased in rubber to help keep its form. Mine was pretty chewed up, and the transmission under power was pumping oil out past the shaft and into the bellhousing, getting caught and whipped around by the flywheel teeth, eventually leaking. It sounds like your leak is coming from the bell housing area, I thought mine was coming from the bottom, but it ended up coming from the starter hole and then running along the bell housing to drip in the center. Try squeezing a mirror down there to look along the area to identify a leak. The water in the tranny is cause for concern if you leave it. It could eventually cause the fluid to fail and the gears to burn up. Does the fluid look like pepto bismol? Did the water level ever get high enough in the bilge to be level with the bottom of the bellhousing or where the cooler lines leave the tranny?
Thanks for the quick reply. It sounds like an identical leak; I will put a mirror under there tonight. The water in the tranny is an issue. I have changed it a few times, and plan on doing that again tonight. As I said, I had the cooler checked by a radiator shop and it seemed OK. I have some water in the bilge but usually not too much. Yesterday I had a call into Atlantis Gear in Mass. After explaining what I had done with the cooler, and the leaky seal issue, the mechanic there says the only way water gets into the transmission is if the cooler is bad, or you sink the boat. I tried to tell him about a vacuum causing water to enter thru the seal if water is in the bilge. He was not buying it, and said replace the cooler. Any thoughts. I have the cooler lined up at Discount Marine, and since it is not too much $$, I plan on getting it and new hoses ordered tomorrow. Just wondered.
I have and drained /replaced the fluid a few times. It is not frothy or Pepto like any more, only the first time, but still seems lighter then the dark red. The mechanic also said you will never get that pepto stuff all the way out, it will hang out on the gears and clutch assembly so he recommended a rebuild if I was going to take it out anyway. I do not think he was up selling me, just his experience. $175 to replace both seals $850-$900 for a rebuild assuming I bring in the tranny.

Again, Thanks for the help; my concern is doing damage if I continue to run the boat, and the loss of power transfer I think is happening. I did hit something at the end of last year, which seems to have started this whole issue. Anything else I should look for. Shaft alignment,etc?

rholmes
07-15-2008, 10:12 PM
I'm not sold on the notion you can never get the fluid completely out. If you flush it enough, it will clear up. Plenty of threads on here about people who have had water in the tranny, flushed it a few times and no probs afterwards. There is a breather hole on top of the transmission, but you would have obvious water in the boat for it to get that high. If the cooler checked out, that would lead me to not believe that it has a problem. Water could also enter where the shift linkage is on the tranny if the o-ring was bad, but you would likely be seeing tranny fluid come from there. You said the shop checked out and there is no longer frothing fluid, it could be that all you are seeing is the residual. The problem could have been a loose connection on the cooler hose going to the tranny. I would flush it once or twice more, see if the color improves.

My tranny was stuck and probably the worst case scenario. The seals are actually really easy to replace. It should only take two hours total time from removing the exhaust, linkage, cooler hoses, etc to when the bellhousing comes off. From there, 30 minutes to fix seals. Then reinstall. You really could do it yourself if the tranny is showing no signs of slipping, gear engagement at high rpm, etc. In that case it wouldn't need a rebuild IMO if you are a little more diligent with the tranny flushes to make sure that you are continually removing any water. The biggest area the water hides is behind the reverse ring. Hope this helps.

woodskier
07-20-2008, 10:10 AM
Thanks again, another fluid drain and replace on Friday improved performence greatly, Actually got the kids out skiing. Each time the fluid seems darker so may be no new water entering, backing up that the cooler is good to go. Down to the dock now for another " transfusion" to the tranny. Also plan on checking the shaft stuffung box this morning, seems to be dripping quite a bit. Sounds like I may tackle the seals afterall when I get a spare rainy weekend.

I appreciate the advice.

scubastv
07-30-2008, 09:53 PM
I am in the same boat 1989 tristar, and leaking tranny fuild under velvet drive. Did you replace your own seals or have someone else do it. My tranny is slipping under acceleration, low on fluid, when i fill up works good for five pulls then low again. any help would be great. Steve.

rholmes
07-31-2008, 12:07 AM
I replaced the seals myself. Pretty easy to do if you know how to turn a wrench. It really isn't that challenging, just time consuming.

scubastv
07-31-2008, 01:15 AM
how hard was it to replace the seals on your tranny? Any hints or help you could give out? Thanks Steve.

scubastv
07-31-2008, 01:22 AM
how hard was it to replace the seals on your tranny? Any hints or help you could give out? Thanks Steve.

rholmes
07-31-2008, 12:09 PM
It is pretty easy and self explanatory. When you pop off the tranny from the bellhousing, you will see where the front seals are. I didn't change the back seals or pull the transmission apart (no more than taking the oil pump cover off). If you can change some brakes on a car or replace an alternator, you can do this job. There are a lot of threads on here that will help you. If you read this one from the start, I covered a lot of things.

scubastv
08-01-2008, 02:22 AM
Thanks I'll let you know how it went. Stv

downtime
09-27-2009, 04:54 PM
I know this is an old thread but can someone confirm this for me? I have a '95 ps205 and I'm gonna pull the tranny soon (Hurth). If there are a couple bolts only accessible from inside the bell housing it would be good to know before I break out the pry bars.

I am just guessing based on my own experience with my later model MC. It has one of the Hurth transmissions in it. My trans does have a bolt or two that holds the bell housing onto the transmission body that is only accessible from the inside. Meaning I had to pull the bell housing with the transmission to separate it from the back of the engine block.

Some one else that has experience pulling the PCM trans should come along shortly to help ya! Based on what I am seeing in your pics would lead me to believe you need to pull the bell housing with the tranny...

downtime
10-03-2009, 11:47 AM
Anyone?......

KHall
10-03-2009, 01:38 PM
you can probably search this site some for that answer. I don't know for sure. may want to search net for exploded view of that trans. think ive seen pics of them before.

pup
10-03-2009, 07:18 PM
Pull the bell housing off with the transmission. All of those bolts are easy to access. You have to pull the bell housing off anyway if you want to change the flex plate.

downtime
10-04-2009, 12:54 PM
I was leaning towards that. Is changing the flex plate necessary or just one of those "I'm already here anyway" things?

Pull the bell housing off with the transmission. All of those bolts are easy to access. You have to pull the bell housing off anyway if you want to change the flex plate.

pup
10-04-2009, 03:03 PM
check the condition of the spline & look for loose or broken springs. If all looks good you could reuse the plate. Not sure of the cost but replacement would ensure you wouldn't have to be in there again for some time.

liledgy
10-31-2011, 07:33 PM
My front trans seal is on its way from skidim. They recommended to remove pump to install seal. Didn't mention anything about the flex plate. Besides looking at wear on the spline and loose or broken springs is there anything else to check on the flex plate.

Bouyhead
11-01-2011, 07:10 AM
My front trans seal is on its way from skidim. They recommended to remove pump to install seal. Didn't mention anything about the flex plate. Besides looking at wear on the spline and loose or broken springs is there anything else to check on the flex plate.

Look for any hairline cracks where the flex plate bolts to the flywheel and where the center hub attaches the plate. Although it's not a cheap item $100-$185 it is what links your motor to the tranny. Removing the pump housing is the way to go for easy seal replacement.

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