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Jim@BAWS
06-04-2008, 04:00 PM
http://shock.military.com:80/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=160644

BriEOD
06-04-2008, 04:19 PM
This will come and go like left wing socialism. However, I would challenge any of those folks in those videos why they continue to live in western democracies, yet promote Islamic ideals? Pack your stuff up and move to Iran or Saudia Arabia (depending on your side of Islam). They couldn't demonstate like that in either of the aforementioned countries, they would be murdered. Come to think of it, they would probably be persecuted for living abroad and subsequently returning to the Middle-East. I've never been to Iran, but I have been to Saudi Arabia. I'll take France or England any day...

TX.X-30 fan
06-04-2008, 04:22 PM
We can simply reason with them Jim, not to worry.

BriEOD
06-04-2008, 04:26 PM
The anti-Jewish propaganda is mind numbing. If you didn't know, Iraqis do not pay any taxes. ALL of their national revenue is based on crude oil sales. It never failed, every few weeks someone would try and blow up an oil pipeline or oil related infrastructure. During casual conversations with locals the topic frequently came up as to why someone would destroy the source of revenue for the entire country. The answer: because all of the oil revenue goes to Israel. Unbelieveable how bad those people are brain washed.

brucemac
06-04-2008, 04:26 PM
wow. scary. wish there were easy answers. you're right, big BIG trouble.

jmac197
06-04-2008, 04:27 PM
The parallels are scary! We need a grassroots effort to return to our founding document, The Constitution.

http://www.law.emory.edu/index.php?id=3080

Political Correctness is just a front for the advancement of the liberal agenda. Much like global warming.

TX.X-30 fan
06-04-2008, 04:34 PM
This will come and go like left wing socialism. However, I would challenge any of those folks in those videos why they continue to live in western democracies, yet promote Islamic ideals? ..





I think many including ahmadenejad have plainly stated the reason.

RexDog1
06-04-2008, 04:46 PM
Who cares ……. We live in the USA no one can reach us here :rolleyes::(

I think It is about time some people…. let’s say ……???? HUMM……the one in the video with the bull horn yelling death to America to just Poof …………..disappear ………. The mob had it right Poof gone………………. it works :mad:

JimN
06-04-2008, 04:48 PM
I really think we need to have a "Hug a Muslim Day". They say we hate them but if we all went around hugging them, they would see that their perception isn't accurate.

TX.X-30 fan
06-04-2008, 04:59 PM
I really think we need to have a "Hug a Muslim Day". They say we hate them but if we all went around hugging them, they would see that their perception isn't accurate.





Ok, you first. 8p


35941 :D

captain planet
06-04-2008, 05:06 PM
Ok, you first. 8p


35941 :D

You are a true piece of work TX.

TX.X-30 fan
06-04-2008, 05:12 PM
You are a true piece of work TX.

Thanks CP, funny stuff right there. :D:D

NU-skier
06-04-2008, 05:29 PM
I really think we need to have a "Hug a Muslim Day". They say we hate them but if we all went around hugging them, they would see that their perception isn't accurate.

Maybe if you could get 'em to wear some deodorant first.

shepherd
06-04-2008, 05:42 PM
Europe may be forced to choose between political correctness and the survival of its civilization??? Laying it on a bit thick aren't they?

Oh, that explains it... CBN news. :rolleyes:

JimN
06-04-2008, 05:47 PM
"Ok, you first."

Not gonna happen.

Unless she's hot, 'cause, then, ya gotta!

JimN
06-04-2008, 05:47 PM
"Europe may be forced to choose between political correctness and the survival of its civilization??? Laying it on a bit thick aren't they?"

Read up on Sharia Law and then report back here.

TX.X-30 fan
06-04-2008, 06:16 PM
35942


.............. ;)

Chief
06-04-2008, 06:23 PM
Piglett is touching mohammed. That's a no no. What's mohammed thinking.

Heres some funny stuff.

http://www.zipperfish.com/toons/yaafm/yaafm-12-muslims/

BriEOD
06-04-2008, 08:18 PM
I think many including ahmadenejad have plainly stated the reason.

Maybe I'm missing your point. Most of the leaders of the Islamic movement (UBL, etc) promote a strong desire to reform the Islamic Caliphate of the early 2nd millenium. However, France and England, nor the US, were part of that. By reforging the Caliphate, along with the resources, etc, they feel the new nation can project power nationally which dwarfs western states, to include the US.

Also, let me add that this isn't my opinion.

TX.X-30 fan
06-04-2008, 09:02 PM
If you took that in some way insulting then yes it was taken wrong. I would never question someone such as yourself on these matters, and thought your post was enlightening.

You questioned why are they in western Europe and if they don't like it why not go back.

I simply meant that muslim leaders have expressed clearly their desire to destroy Israel, and convert the west or kill the infidels. Is not part of this to inhabit their enemies countries? They have migrated throughout western Europe for many years and now seem to feel strong. They are also throughout the US and seem to be starting to request all the stuff that Europe is dealing with now.


Also I need to bone up on the caliphate. :D Show off!

PendO
06-04-2008, 09:15 PM
Also I need to bone up on the caliphate. :D

Sounds exciting, strippers?

BriEOD
06-04-2008, 09:37 PM
If you took that in some way insulting then yes it was taken wrong. I would never question someone such as yourself on these matters, and thought your post was enlightening.

You questioned why are they in western Europe and if they don't like it why not go back.

I simply meant that muslim leaders have expressed clearly their desire to destroy Israel, and convert the west or kill the infidels. Is not part of this to inhabit their enemies countries? They have migrated throughout western Europe for many years and now seem to feel strong. They are also throughout the US and seem to be starting to request all the stuff that Europe is dealing with now.


Also I need to bone up on the caliphate. :D Show off!

No, I didn't take it that way. Also, didn't want you to think I was speculating.

I'm not sure they want to take over the world. The Caliphate stretched from the border of China, through western Asia, through the Middle-East across northern Africa and even up into Spain (remember the story of El Cid?). During the height of the Caliphate the Islamic culture was the world leader in math, medicine and the sciences. Simultaneously, the Roman empire had collapsed and the west was in the middle of the Dark Ages. A lot of Muslims still feel all of that geography belongs to them. Moreover, one great Islamic philospher from the 1930s promoted the notion (his name escapes me at present) that during the Caliphate Islam dominated the globe as the power player. Therefore, in order to return to this "Golden Age" the Middle East must recapture itself through the combination of Church and State and following strict tenants of Islam...

One problem with this is Islam is divided into two groups, Sunnis (majority) and Shias (minority)--think Catholics and Protestants. Sunnis encompass 85%-90% of all Muslims. UBL, Saddam, Saudis are all Sunnis. Conversely, Shias are rooted largely in Iran and in Iraq. While they have a common enemy in the west, it is unlikely they could make enough concessions to come together for a common interest of all of Islam. Exhibit A--see Iraq where Shias are displaying great amounts of persecution against Sunnis (who previously were the ruling party under Saddam).

I could go on and on. It is just a bloody mess. Bottom line, the west needs to quit being so PC.:rant:

TX.X-30 fan
06-04-2008, 09:39 PM
What Do the Terrorists Want? [A Caliphate]
by Daniel Pipes
New York Sun
July 26, 2005


What do Islamist terrorists want? The answer should be obvious, but it is not.

A generation ago, terrorists did make clear their wishes. Upon hijacking three airliners in September 1970, for example, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine demanded, with success, the release of Arab terrorists imprisoned in Britain, Switzerland, and West Germany. Upon attacking the B'nai B'rith headquarters and two other Washington, D.C. buildings in 1977, a Hanafi Muslim group demanded the canceling of a feature movie, Mohammad, Messenger of God," $750 (as reimbursement for a fine), the turning over of the five men who had massacred the Hanafi leader's family, plus the killer of Malcolm X.

Such "non-negotiable demands" led to wrenching hostage dramas and attendant policy dilemmas. "We will never negotiate with terrorists," the policymakers declared "Give them Hawaii but get my husband back," pleaded the hostages' wives.

Those days are so remote and their terminology so forgotten that even President Bush now speaks of "non-negotiable demands" (in his case, concerning human dignity), forgetting the deadly origins of this phrase.

Most anti-Western terrorist attacks these days are perpetrated without demands being enunciated. Bombs go off, planes get hijacked and crashed into buildings, hotels collapse. The dead are counted. Detectives trace back the perpetrators' identities. Shadowy websites make post-hoc unauthenticated claims.

But the reasons for the violence go unexplained. Analysts, including myself, are left speculating about motives. These can relate to terrorists' personal grievances based in poverty, prejudice, or cultural alienation. Alternately, an intention to change international policy can be seen as a motive: pulling "a Madrid" and getting governments to withdraw their troops from Iraq; convincing Americans to leave Saudi Arabia; ending American support for Israel; pressuring New Delhi to cede control of all Kashmir.

Any of these motives could have contributed to the violence; as London's Daily Telegraph puts it, problems in Iraq and Afghanistan each added "a new pebble to the mountain of grievances that militant fanatics have erected." Yet neither is decisive to giving up one's life for the sake of killing others.

In nearly all cases, the jihadi terrorists have a patently self-evident ambition: to establish a world dominated by Muslims, Islam, and Islamic law, the Shari'a. Or, again to cite the Daily Telegraph, their "real project is the extension of the Islamic territory across the globe, and the establishment of a worldwide ‘caliphate' founded on Shari'a law."
Terrorists openly declare this goal. The Islamists who assassinated Anwar el-Sadat in 1981 decorated their holding cages with banners proclaiming the "caliphate or death." A biography of one of the most influential Islamist thinkers of recent times and an influence on Osama bin Laden, Abdullah Azzam declares that his life "revolved around a single goal, namely the establishment of Allah's Rule on earth" and restoring the caliphate.

Bin Laden himself spoke of ensuring that "the pious caliphate will start from Afghanistan." His chief deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, also dreamed of re-establishing the caliphate, for then, he wrote, "history would make a new turn, God willing, in the opposite direction against the empire of the United States and the world's Jewish government." Another Al-Qaeda leader, Fazlur Rehman Khalil, publishes a magazine that has declared "Due to the blessings of jihad, America's countdown has begun. It will declare defeat soon," to be followed by the creation of a caliphate.

Or, as Mohammed Bouyeri wrote in the note he attached to the corpse of Theo van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker he had just assassinated, "Islam will be victorious through the blood of martyrs who spread its light in every dark corner of this earth."

Interestingly, van Gogh's murderer was frustrated by the mistaken motives attributed to him, insisting at his trial: "I did what I did purely out of my beliefs. I want you to know that I acted out of conviction and not that I took his life because he was Dutch or because I was Moroccan and felt insulted."

Although terrorists state their jihadi motives loudly and clearly, Westerners and Muslims alike too often fail to hear them. Islamic organizations, Canadian author Irshad Manji observes, pretend that "Islam is an innocent bystander in today's terrorism."

What the terrorists want is abundantly clear. It requires monumental denial not to acknowledge it, but we Westerners have risen to the challenge.

_________

Maristar210
06-04-2008, 09:58 PM
You guys need to **** off

TX.X-30 fan
06-04-2008, 10:25 PM
Off the top of your head BriEOD impressive to say the least. World history was that really thick book my sophomore year. You sir obviously read it.

TX.X-30 fan
06-04-2008, 10:27 PM
You guys need to **** off




hey 210 kathy say's hi??

Chief
06-04-2008, 10:42 PM
Deep stuff here. Did anyone see my funny cartoon link. Puts a light side spin on it.

Those wacko's have been fighting since the beginning of time and they will always be hating on someone.

If they only had Mastercraft's, time haning out on the beach with friends and kicking back some cold beers they wouldn't be so angry at us. Because that's what we do.....................

JimN
06-04-2008, 11:15 PM
Not really the beginning of time, but the early 7th Century A.D..

Here ya go!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

BriEOD
06-04-2008, 11:43 PM
Not really the beginning of time, but the early 7th Century A.D..

Here ya go!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

Ahhh....

This gives me great personal satisfaction to correct you on something. Seeing as you are the Cliff Claven of the site and generally know significantly more than I about anything from tire pressure to water towers.

However, while Islam did not come about until circa 7th century A.D. when Muhammad was hitting the sheisha in the cave and Gabriel visited him, the people inhabiting the region we know as the Middle-East, Berbers, Arabs, etc., were constantly in conflict. Conflicts ranged from live stock herds to pagan gods. Yet, battles and conflicts were a constant.

Moreover, as you go back further in works such as the Old Testament, you can also see that ethnic groups such as the Persians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, etc, all from the Middle East, were also frequently in conflict.

With all that said, I think it goes back a litte further than the 7th century AD oh wise one. ;)

sand2snow22
06-05-2008, 12:47 AM
Sounds like they just attacked the Danish embassy in Pakistan!

JimN
06-05-2008, 10:38 AM
"With all that said, I think it goes back a litte further than the 7th century AD oh wise one. "

"Well, Nammy, since this thread is about Muslims, that's haw I took the comment but you're right- tribal conflict in that area has been going on for thousands of yeahs.

But the Berbers sure make nice carpet. And 'dose Poishion Rugs! BEAUTIFUL! Like Velvet! An' just LOOK at da' colors!


My cousin was stationed in Turkey (Air Force) in the mid-'60s. He says they're all insane.

shepherd
06-05-2008, 12:46 PM
"Europe may be forced to choose between political correctness and the survival of its civilization??? Laying it on a bit thick aren't they?"

Read up on Sharia Law and then report back here.

I'm not scared.

Didn't the Christians try to take over the world during a good part of the last millenium? They failed, and so will the Muslims.

I'll leave you guys to your "sky is falling" discussion and go have a beer with Maristar210, skiing later.

RexDog1
06-05-2008, 01:21 PM
You guys need to **** off

hummmmmm I need to do what :rolleyes:.....LOL

Hi Steve :D

JimN
06-05-2008, 01:50 PM
"Didn't the Christians try to take over the world during a good part of the last millenium? They failed, and so will the Muslims"

Here's a link- I would have to say that, being the two most populous religions, they have done well. Combined, they have 3.6B and the world population is just over 6.6B.

The problem is, they're both equally convinced that their way is the only way.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080216043802AA9BRei&show=7

BriEOD
06-05-2008, 02:56 PM
I recently read an article (in a peer reviewed journal) discussing how Christianity had leapt ahead of Islam as the world's #1 religion. The author opined this had a lot to do with the world post 9/11 and some of the radicalization of Islam. Also, Catholicism was leading the way in the Christian sect, over Protestanism.

Chief
06-15-2008, 12:40 AM
What else can you say. BOOM!

JimN
06-21-2008, 02:08 PM
They can talk about this, but the US can't. I wonder why.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20080620/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_summit_borders

boofer
06-21-2008, 04:47 PM
Just my 2 cents. I was required to read the National Security Strategy of the United States. It maps out exactly how the United States plans on defending our country. It says that we plan to democratize the entire globe. The United States wants to install democratic governments in every country of the world. They believe that democratic governments are more "humane" and necessary for the world to become one big happy place. I disagree. Take for instance the people of Iraq. They do just fine under a dictatorship. They are happy living in this type of society. The only problem is who is the dictator.

What is needed is respect for the beliefs and wishes of others. There is no reason in hell why a democratic government can not get along with a dictatorship and so on. One just needs to remember that not everyone is like us and respect them and to some extent try to understand them (helps when you know how they think when it comes to negotiations).

"Radical" Islam is from what I have read and seen a small sect of Islam. The key word here is "radical." They are the minority amongst the Muslims. They use terror tactics as there only means of getting known. Without committing terrorist actions, they would be nothing but another political minority and would probably have little or no influence.

I think that the US should rethink their strategy. I honestly believe that there is a hope for a peaceful global economy where all lands can benefit. But, we have problems here that we need to fix first. Radical Islamists will only continue as long as they have a reason to hate the US and other democracies. We need to mend our perception to the rest of the world. We are thought of as bullies. We need to the world to think of the US as a country willing to respect other beliefs and work together (just for info, I am a proponent for a substantial military for DEFENSE). Radical Islamist groups will see their numbers fall if they cannot breed hate against the United States.

JimN
06-21-2008, 05:20 PM
"Take for instance the people of Iraq. They do just fine under a dictatorship."

You mean, with the death squads, mass graves, one sect (the smaller one) running roughshod on the majority of the population, living in fear and being completely dependent on the government, right?

"There is no reason in hell why a democratic government can not get along with a dictatorship and so on."

How do you figure? When one government is the polar opposite of another, they can't agree on that- why would they agree on most other things? If a dictatorship has the general population under its thumb in virtually all aspects of daily life, how willing are they going to be to assist in human rights issues?

I agree that the US needs to make a lot of changes but it can't happen overnight and it can't be sweeping changes. 300M+ people just can't change that fast, one way or another.

We need a secure border. Other people need to realize/accept that they can't be allowed to just walk in and settle down and their home governments needs to help in this regard. We can't just go do to Mexico or up to Canada and live there, unless it's in a completely remote location and absolutely under the radar. Even that won't last long, if it happens. It's costing us too much and it's something our lawmakers need to realize and agree on.

JimN
06-21-2008, 05:22 PM
"They use terror tactics as there only means of getting known."

They've been known for a long time. We get it- they hate us! Mainstream Islam isn't doing anything to curb their offshoots, either.

boofer
07-04-2008, 02:53 AM
JimN,

You took my quotes out of context.

A dictatorship depends entirely on WHO is the dictator. Saddam was brought up as a hitman and he ruled by the only way he knew how to; by fear and intimidation.

Different types of governments can get along. One government does not have to agree with the other government on issues such as religion, laws, and other stuff to make treaties and coexist. I studied briefly the similarities in cultures. ALL cultures agree on certain universal laws.

I agree with you on the other stuff. I am appalled at the fact that we have sold out to the Chinese. While shopping, I ask my daughter to guess where something is made. 99.9% of the time it is China. Our leaders and CEO's have sold us out for the low bidder in the name of greed.

Want to know why most people ion other countries hate us? They can not stand our arrogance. I travel world wide and I love to ask a local what they think about Americans. The #1 answer is, "Americans are so damned arrogant." Now, throw in media and the web, and you can talk all day about why they get that impression.

TX.X-30 fan
07-04-2008, 09:28 AM
JimN is exactly right and your post is very naive and that is dangerous.

JimN
07-04-2008, 09:49 AM
You didn't provide a context so,....

"ALL cultures agree on certain universal laws."

Really? Like freedom of speech, religion, equality of race and gender? Muslim-ruled countries don't allow for these.

We, as a country, are arrogant. We, as a country, are also ignorant. We never had a right to feel that our crap doesn't stink but considering how many times we have bailed other countries out of major jams, come to their aid after a tragedy, fought for them and increasing their quality of life because of all of our innovations, I think we had a right to a bit of swagger.

André
07-04-2008, 09:59 AM
Hey,can i enjoy my fourth of July without political talks?;)

Have a great day guys!:)

jimmer2880
07-04-2008, 10:14 AM
....I agree with you on the other stuff. I am appalled at the fact that we have sold out to the Chinese. While shopping, I ask my daughter to guess where something is made. 99.9% of the time it is China. Our leaders and CEO's have sold us out for the low bidder in the name of greed.
.....

I couldn't disagree more. It's not the leaders and CEO's who have sold us out, it is the CONSUMER who has sold out our own jobs. I remember growing up as a kid, seeing the "BUY USA" advertisements. Yet, we continue to buy the cheapest crap we can get our hands on. The leaders and CEO's only followed the lead that WE, the consumer gave them.

TX.X-30 fan
07-04-2008, 10:28 AM
Hey,can i enjoy my fourth of July without political talks?;)

Have a great day guys!




Its our 4th of July, and we don't need you cannucks horning in on it! :D:D



Have a good one Andre. 8p

boofer
07-06-2008, 04:32 PM
I should of said "universal beliefs" instead of universal laws. "Beliefs" is a more accurate word to use. But, these beliefs go much deeper than what you mentioned JimN. Matter of fact, none of these things you mentioned are included. Some of the beliefs are: the respect for human life, murder is a crime, the family is the center of importance. Remember, these are beliefs that are common in all of the different cultures. And, do not confuse cultures with radicals or right/left wingist.

The studies also mention that evey culture understands that there are those who will try to deprive others of their property and life. Unfortunately, humans have a good side and a bad side. Cultures understand this reality despite their idealistic vision. There are mixed beliefs when it comes to punishment especially with capital punishment since utilizing it violates one of the core beliefs.

JimN, I will not deny that the USA has helped out other countries. But, we do not have the right to shove our beliefs on anyone. But, I do believe that we have certain beliefs that would benefit other cultures such as freedom of speech. Hell, that is an easy one. You don't like what I am saying, you just don't listen. No one gets hurt; simple.

Jimmer, I disagree. What options do we have when it comes to buying stuff? If i go to buy a particular something and the only option is to buy something made in China then what do I do? I cannot control what the companies put on the shelf. I am CEO for company X. Let's see here. I can buy this item from China for $1.00 and sell it for $2.50 or I can buy this same item from a US company for $2.00 and only make $0.50. Hmmm, what do I do as the greedy corporate CEO that I am.

Guys, the fact is we could discuss/debate politics, religion, economy till we are dead and in our graves. And doing this via a message board will take longer. Human beings need to look at the big picture. We will not be here forever. We should make the best of what we have and not spend our existence bickering and making war.

Peace should be the goal of everyone!

TX.X-30 fan
07-06-2008, 11:38 PM
Just guessing you would never lay down your life for this country??

boofer
07-07-2008, 03:53 AM
I joined the military in 1985 and I am still serving today.

Ric
07-07-2008, 10:12 AM
Ok, you first. 8p


35941 :D
ok I am laughing myass off!

Ric
07-07-2008, 10:19 AM
Hey, I know.... We should be more like the French and then everyone would like us?

TX.X-30 fan
07-07-2008, 11:40 AM
I joined the military in 1985 and I am still serving today.




Apologies, and thanks for your service Sir!

boofer
07-07-2008, 04:44 PM
I appreciate your thanks.

Despite the desire for peace, I will be one of the first to argue for a very strong and substantial military. But, I think we have used the military in the wrong way for a long time. I think that other countries are convinced that if the USA does not get what they want, they will resort to military power. It is the Department of Defense, not offense.

"The real and lasting victories are those of peace, and not of war."
-Ralph Waldo Emmerson

"Any soldier worth his salt should be anti-war. And still, there are things
worth fighting for."
-General Norman Schwarzkopf