PDA

View Full Version : PP or Zero-off


jetlife
05-07-2008, 10:43 PM
I'm sure this has been discussed, but what is the verdict? And is the stargazer worth the money?

Thanks
Jay

ShamrockIV
05-07-2008, 11:00 PM
man what do u have now??

i have reg wakeboard pro and i love it!!!!!!!

jetlife
05-07-2008, 11:02 PM
I have the MC speed control, but it went TU last year. I always planned to upgrade to PP.

Chicago190
05-08-2008, 12:23 AM
What year is your boat? ZO just became the only future distributor of drive by wire, GPS based speed control. Perfect Pass will continue to produce GPS speed control for older boats that require the servo for throttle control.

Ski Bum
05-08-2008, 12:35 AM
The AWSA western region as of 09 is going zero off no more PP.

bkblaida
05-08-2008, 10:21 AM
I will add to the original question. We are recreational boaters, wakeboard, slalom, tube, some but very little time in the course. Own a 97 PS205. Is the stargazer the way to go? Or wakeboard pro? A little shopping has narrowed the price gap between the two to under $300. Recommendations appreciated. Currently we have no speed control.

BrianM
05-08-2008, 10:25 AM
I will add to the original question. We are recreational boaters, wakeboard, slalom, tube, some but very little time in the course. Own a 97 PS205. Is the stargazer the way to go? Or wakeboard pro? A little shopping has narrowed the price gap between the two to under $300. Recommendations appreciated. Currently we have no speed control.

If you spend very little tine in the course I would just go with the WBP.

east tx skier
05-08-2008, 11:52 AM
There is a short FAQ on www.perfectpass.com that answers some of the questions about the press release.

Basically, Perfect Pass will continue to sell SG for comp inboards 2008 and older. The OEM stuff they gave up is for PCM and Indmar 2009 and on. The GPS tech they received in the deal will essentially enable them to make SG feel like ZO enabling people with older boats to have a speed control that feels like what they will see at tournaments.

If you're just wakeboarding, like Brian said, WB pro will probably be fine. If not, SG is an inexpensive upgrade from there. For 2004 and older MCs, ZO is not an option and probably won't be for years to come.

bkblaida
05-08-2008, 09:35 PM
east tx skier

Between wake board pro and star gazer, is one easier to set-up and use? Skier to Skier is recommending star gazer even if we spend little time in the course. I believe you have experience with both units. What is you opinion?

Thanks

BuoyChaser
05-08-2008, 10:29 PM
sounds like a great "mutual" business decision...will be interesting to see how they both pan out...Zero Off didn't have a plan for non-DBW boats and PP didn't have a good plan for GPS, both are the ends of both companies if they didn't come together...i think the agreement is great for the sport, let's wish them both success and hope that their continued competition will drive to the best system available to us all for years to come!!!

east tx skier
05-08-2008, 11:46 PM
east tx skier

Between wake board pro and star gazer, is one easier to set-up and use? Skier to Skier is recommending star gazer even if we spend little time in the course. I believe you have experience with both units. What is you opinion?

Thanks

I'll qualify this with the statement that I don't wakeboard, so I don't have any sort of intimate familiarity with that side of the system other than I know it's speed based rather than rpm based, but still checks the paddlewheel input with the GPS. For not having to calibrate the speedo, SG is great. But as wakeboarding is a speed over water type sport and GPS measures speed over ground, if there's any sort of current, the GPS signal may not give you an accurate reading (although supposedly, the system will disregard the GPS signal for adjusting the speed on the paddle wheel when there is too much variance from the anticipated baseline.

I really like SG and I think it has benefits over 6.5, but it seems it was primarily designed for slalom course skiing and that the benefits to WB mode vary depending on what body of water you ride on.

But I suppose you have to check your paddle wheel speedo against something. Much easier with an integrated system. For $400 more, you could get SG. If you're going to drop $100 on a handheld GPS to check speed, it may be worth it just to get SG.

Clear as mud, right?

east tx skier
05-08-2008, 11:48 PM
sounds like a great "mutual" business decision...will be interesting to see how they both pan out...Zero Off didn't have a plan for non-DBW boats and PP didn't have a good plan for GPS, both are the ends of both companies if they didn't come together...i think the agreement is great for the sport, let's wish them both success and hope that their continued competition will drive to the best system available to us all for years to come!!!

Reading PP's little FAQ this morning, I noticed that the DBW patents were specific to Indmar and PCM. Seems like they're eying the I/O market.

east tx skier
05-08-2008, 11:49 PM
Triple.......

east tx skier
05-08-2008, 11:49 PM
Double post. Sorry.

BuoyChaser
05-08-2008, 11:59 PM
Something is up their sleeve, you don't bow down that easily. Certainly allows both to each survive in their own niche and share equal proprietary info the other needed. Perfect biz deal.

hokiecharlie
05-09-2008, 04:15 PM
I'll qualify this with the statement that I don't wakeboard, so I don't have any sort of intimate familiarity with that side of the system other than I know it's speed based rather than rpm based, but still checks the paddlewheel input with the GPS. For not having to calibrate the speedo, SG is great. But as wakeboarding is a speed over water type sport and GPS measures speed over ground, if there's any sort of current, the GPS signal may not give you an accurate reading (although supposedly, the system will disregard the GPS signal for adjusting the speed on the paddle wheel when there is too much variance from the anticipated baseline.

I really like SG and I think it has benefits over 6.5, but it seems it was primarily designed for slalom course skiing and that the benefits to WB mode vary depending on what body of water you ride on.

But I suppose you have to check your paddle wheel speedo against something. Much easier with an integrated system. For $400 more, you could get SG. If you're going to drop $100 on a handheld GPS to check speed, it may be worth it just to get SG.

Clear as mud, right?
I talked to a person at PP about the same issue. I have a 2002 209 that we use for slalom skiing and wakeboarding, but we have limited access to a course. He told me that SG was designed for use in the course, but that they were coming out with what amounts to a WBP version of SG. He suggested I wait on that. Said it will be a little cheaped thatn regular SG also.

C36
05-09-2008, 04:52 PM
I talked to a person at PP about the same issue. I have a 2002 209 that we use for slalom skiing and wakeboarding, but we have limited access to a course. He told me that SG was designed for use in the course, but that they were coming out with what amounts to a WBP version of SG. He suggested I wait on that. Said it will be a little cheaped thatn regular SG also.

hokiecharlie: I had a similar conversation with the good folks a PP earlier this winter. We are also in a similar situtation (2001 boat (servo required) used for both waterskiing and wakeboarding, but there is a four ball course on our lake part-time).

Back in the winter, the staff at PerfectPass said the future version of WakeBoard Pro would be coming out (July at earliest) and that it would be driven by GPS puck only (no paddlewheel). [it has since come to my attention that the new system SGWBP will likely be available for the '08 season]. To my understanding both systems (SG & GPS WBP) would do contant speed calibration from GPS and baseline rpm adjustment on the fly. The only differences between StarGazer and the future GPS (no paddlewheel) Wakeboard Pro that I can anticipate are:

GPS (no paddlewheel) Wakeboard Pro

Positives (compared to StarGazer)
> no paddle wheel required - no additional hole in boat
> simpler to operate (less tweaking required)
> less expensive
> available this season (my install has to happen in early July) *
> can be upgraded in future to 3 Event StarGazer *

Negitives (compared to StarGazer)
> it will not know when you enter the course (no adjustment for gate and ball one)
> pre-set slalom speeds only (24.9, 26.8, 28.6, 30.4, 34.2, 36 mph) *
> no slalom practice mode (unless operated in classic mode) *
> no jump mode and no trick mode (no problem for us)
> if you are in a location where there is no GPS signal - no speed control (has not been an issue according to PP) *
> provides speed over ground (not speed over water - so in places with current it may be an issue) as ETS noted above

Although we orignally were going to go with 3 Event StarGazer (to be able to use it this season), with the advance of StarGazer Wakeboard Pro, the easier operation, and the ability to upgrade to the full system later we have now decided to go with the StarGazer WBP. *

I would be interested in hearing if there are any other anticipated differences anyone else can think of.

edit\2008 May 15 = updated information from PerfectPass (see *'s above)

east tx skier
05-09-2008, 04:57 PM
I'm surprised to read that they would get rid of the paddlewheel for WBP. In dealing with a river current or the like, GPS is not going to provide accurate speed.