PDA

View Full Version : The price of oil is starting to have effects for the oil industry.


Pages : [1] 2

kevfischer
04-28-2008, 05:34 PM
I know you probably will scoff at the fact that I work in the oilfiled. But I have spent the last several hours dealing with the effects of high oil prices. Theft is rearing it's ugly head. So far two of wells my company operates have been victims. Individuals have stolen costly equipment right off producing wells. We have only gotten hit on two wells but another local company was hit 8 times over the last 24 hrs. The local sheriff told us that two tanks of oil have also been stolen in the last 72 hours. The equipment loss is ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 each well and the stolen oil is close to $15,000 each tank. For those not in the industry that think that the high cost is making every company super rich always remember that when the price of oil shoots up so does the equipment and cost of running it which causes people to start stealing. Just thought I would vent hope you don't mind.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-28-2008, 06:22 PM
this is for the cops.

06' X-2 R8R H8R
04-28-2008, 06:28 PM
Save it for someone who really feels your pity.....

TX.X-30 fan
04-28-2008, 07:10 PM
Save it for someone who really feels your pity.....




Do you mean pain?



Big oil bad!

Bush bad!!

34217
34217
34217
34217

FlatBoard
04-28-2008, 07:19 PM
Change is a comin'. For good or bad, we will see.

Hang in there folks.

T Scott
04-28-2008, 07:54 PM
I have a friend of mine who is a long time Exxon Mobil executive. He and I go round and round when he tells me that Exxon only makes a few cents per gallon of gas that is sold. If that is really true, why have Exxon Mobil profits been sky high over the last few years. If profit was consistently just a few cents over the cost of goods, their profits would not show that dramatic spike.

I was born at night, but not last night!

No offense (nor do I condone the stealing that your company has suffered) but, I don't think the public is going to give any gas compnay much pity these days.

T Scott
04-28-2008, 07:59 PM
when the price of oil shoots up so does the equipment and cost of running it

Huh??? What does the cost of a barrel of oil have to do with the equipment it takes to refine it? It is the same product, just a different price. If the cost of milk skyrockets, we don't have to feed the cows anything different do we?

JBaker
04-28-2008, 08:11 PM
Huh??? What does the cost of a barrel of oil have to do with the equipment it takes to refine it? It is the same product, just a different price. If the cost of milk skyrockets, we don't have to feed the cows anything different do we?

The OP is essentially claiming a correlated relation between input costs, which could stand to reason, but not in this case. I'm on board with you T Scott.

Even if other input costs did increase, oil companies are producing a freaking commodity, which means they have ultimate pricing power. There are separate futures contracts for crude and gas and they don't have to move parallel to one another. If rises in refining costs outpace rises in crude, than gas futures will outpace crude. Simple as that. It's not as if the oil companies just eat that margin like, for instance, a producer of consumer discretionaries might.

Sorry for the jargon.

JKTX21
04-28-2008, 08:35 PM
I scoff, I double scoff!

All scoffing aside.... yeah yeah the price of oil is high. Way I see it Americans can do a few things. Stop being so freaking inelastic when it comes to buying fuel, or budget to save money in other expenditures. Fuel finally hit a level to where I became sensitive... so I haven't given up my 12 mpg SUV or my boat, I cut my commute from 90 miles a day to 5 miles.

And the oil business is exactly that, a business. It is the American way to maximize profits for the owners (shareholders) of companies. I hate the fact that gas costs $3.50 per gallon, but it sure beats nationalization or the government subsidizing with my hard earned tax dollars.

Rant over, JK out.

88 PS190
04-28-2008, 08:58 PM
i'm feelin it in food costs. its way up, so's beer

Jorski
04-28-2008, 09:16 PM
have a friend of mine who is a long time Exxon Mobil executive. He and I go round and round when he tells me that Exxon only makes a few cents per gallon of gas that is sold. If that is really true, why have Exxon Mobil profits been sky high over the last few years. If profit was consistently just a few cents over the cost of goods, their profits would not show that dramatic spike.

TScott:
Profit margins are indeed thin in the oil business. Your friend is telling you the truth. The spike in profits is because of two things:

1) This an extremely capital intensive business. That means that there are very high fixed costs. When this is the case there is a ton of operating leverage to price changes. Obviously, when oil prices increase, they make a lot more money; but these are huge businesses, thus big numbers. Big profit numbers do not necessarily equate to big margins.

2) The major integrated oil companies also happen to own a lot of old oil fields. Old oil fields have lower costs of production. The fields that replace them as they deplete have much higher costs of production. For you business types it is essentially a FIFO/LIFO problem. In the end, all business trend towards normal profit margins. This industry is no different.


Even if other input costs did increase, oil companies are producing a freaking commodity, which means they have ultimate pricing power.

JBaker.
Producers of commodities have precisely ZERO pricing power - that is an economic fact of life. Price is set as a function of global demand and global supply.

bepresto
04-28-2008, 10:15 PM
kev, I still love you man. cant wait to se everyone mem weekend. We will just have to idle out of the docks to tie up and drink beer and play loud music in a cove that is not use to it, but I am ok with that.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-28-2008, 10:24 PM
so those rich oil arabs get super rich by making very little money? now why didnt I think of that?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-28-2008, 10:27 PM
I cant wait till gas prices get to $5 a gallon! I love overpaying for gas! Makes me feel good inside. I keep calling the gas station daily to see if they have raised the price. I constantly search for the highest price in town and buy my gas there. just to be different.

JBaker
04-28-2008, 11:03 PM
JBaker.
Producers of commodities have precisely ZERO pricing power - that is an economic fact of life. Price is set as a function of global demand and global supply.

By ultimate, I was inferring that a profit is all but guaranteed to be built into the price of their final goods. I think the rest of my post indicated that.

So the price of commodities, especially today, and especially oil, is merely a function of supply and demand? Interesting...:rolleyes:. Just kidding. Besides, in a sense speculators and those fleeing from currency represent a component of demand.

ksmaristar91
04-28-2008, 11:31 PM
Fischer where at in KS are you from? Gotta guess around eldorado? Or out west? I feel you in the thieving thing! I work for a phone company and people have been stealing copper like crazy this year.

lanier92prostar
04-28-2008, 11:36 PM
When the economy goes south, this stuff starts to happen. Recently there has been a rash of thefts in RV's in storage facility with people taking flat screened tv's. One of our local camper dealers had been hit 3 times in the last 3 months. Only high end motorhomes and only flat screen lcd tv's. If the economy keeps going where it is heading, the theft will only get worse.

stuartmcnair
04-28-2008, 11:48 PM
I was talking with the owner of my company this weekend...he's a pretty smart guy...very well known in the trucking industry and he is on the board of advisors for the Fed...he told me something very interesting about fuel companies and where they are making the big money...

the big oil companies are merging as fast as they can as are the truckstop chains. These companies sell millions of gallons of gas a day. They have to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of forty cents a gallon in taxes on those purchases. That tax money is not due until the 15th of each month though so that money is in play until then. Think about the amount of money you could make on that. I never did.

Sodar
04-28-2008, 11:53 PM
Found this a few weeks ago... I have no testament to its validity, but interesting none the less.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/UserFiles/Image/Fiscal%20Facts/gas-tax-690px.jpg

Sodar
04-28-2008, 11:54 PM
I know you probably will scoff at the fact that I work in the oilfiled. But I have spent the last several hours dealing with the effects of high oil prices. Theft is rearing it's ugly head. So far two of wells my company operates have been victims. Individuals have stolen costly equipment right off producing wells. We have only gotten hit on two wells but another local company was hit 8 times over the last 24 hrs. The local sheriff told us that two tanks of oil have also been stolen in the last 72 hours. The equipment loss is ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 each well and the stolen oil is close to $15,000 each tank. For those not in the industry that think that the high cost is making every company super rich always remember that when the price of oil shoots up so does the equipment and cost of running it which causes people to start stealing. Just thought I would vent hope you don't mind.

Poor Baby... glad to see the oil companies are recruiting their employees to fight the good fight of brainwashing others!

lanier92prostar
04-28-2008, 11:57 PM
Found this a few weeks ago... I have no testament to its validity, but interesting none the less.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/UserFiles/Image/Fiscal%20Facts/gas-tax-690px.jpg
This is exactly why the government has stayed out of fuel costs and why the marketeers are allowed to drive up the cost of fuel. Not that I agree or disagree, but the governent makes more money to spend on their programs, so they don't care what the price of fuel is.

Jorski
04-29-2008, 07:50 AM
so those rich oil arabs get super rich by making very little money? now why didnt I think of that?

They get rich, just like the oil companies by having an awful lot of oil. Despite that, the margins are thin. No one said, that you can't get rich selling a lot stuff at low margins. All it means is that the oil companies are not gouging.

Margins are about 10% at Exxon Mobil...what do you think they should be in your business ??

By the way, if you were to reduce profits (ie introduce a windfall tax etc)... there would be less exploration, and as a result, higher prices.

djhuff
04-29-2008, 08:06 AM
Saw an interesting stat recently... Nokia made 12% last quarter!!!! If the oil companies are gouging us at 10% margin, what is Nokia doing to us???

I think the extreme rise in oil prices lately is more a function of the weakining dollar. Both in the fact that it costs more to buy the oil on the global market, as well as people moving their investment money into international commodities such as oil and gold, both of which have gone up significantly.

sdesmond
04-29-2008, 08:40 AM
I think people also forget that Ethanol is not the answer. We are going to move our dependency on oil over to corn? Look what effect that is having on the food prices. Now not only are we paying high prices for fuels but now food as well. This country is on a trend downward and its going to get worse before it gets better. Its scary to look at where we were 10 years ago and where we are headed economically. The dollar is pretty worthless now in the world. The Euro is worth $1.5563 and that is hurting us alot as well.

Roonie's
04-29-2008, 08:43 AM
I laughed out loud when I read this thread.

Even in todays headlines........ Record oil prices drive Shell 1Q profits up 25 percent

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_netherlands_shell_2

sdesmond
04-29-2008, 08:58 AM
http://www2.nysun.com/article/75363

I saw this today. I dont really see any concrete evidence in there but I wouldnt be suprised to see it happen.

Roonie's
04-29-2008, 09:13 AM
I found this on another web site and thought I would share.......

Think a gallon of gas is expensive?This makes one think, and also puts things in perspective to other things we buy.

Diet Snapple 16 oz $1.29 ... $10.32 per gallon Lipton Ice Tea 16 oz $1.19 ..........$9.52 per gallon Gatorade 20 oz $1.59 .... $10.17 per gallon Ocean Spray 16 oz $1.25 ......... $10.00 per gallon Brake Fluid 12 oz $3.15 ...... $33.60 per gallon Vick's Nyquil 6 oz $8.35 ... $178.13 per gallon Pepto Bismol 4 oz $3.85 .. $123.20 per gallon Whiteout 7 oz $1.39 ....... . $25.42 per gallon Scope 1.5 oz $0.99 .....$84.48 per gallon

And this is the REAL KICKER...Evian water 9 oz $1.49..$21.19 per gallon! $21.19 for WATER and the buyers don't even know the source (Evian spelled backwards is Naive.) Ever wonder why printers are so cheap? So they have you hooked for the ink. Someone calculated the cost of the ink at...............(you won't believe it....but it is true........)$5,200 a gal. (five thousand two hundred dollars)!

TX.X-30 fan
04-29-2008, 09:20 AM
They get rich, just like the oil companies by having an awful lot of oil. Despite that, the margins are thin. No one said, that you can't get rich selling a lot stuff at low margins. All it means is that the oil companies are not gouging.

Margins are about 10% at Exxon Mobil...what do you think they should be in your business ??

By the way, if you were to reduce profits (ie introduce a windfall tax etc)... there would be less exploration, and as a result, higher prices.







You sound like a damn capitalist!! :D

wakeX2wake
04-29-2008, 09:25 AM
i'm w/ jorski... these companies are taking their profits to research and find more way to make money... think about it... they're in it to make money not rob the consumer... yes we're getting taken on a ride on proces right now but it's as simple as the commone equation... higher input prices the higher the output prices... these mega companies HAVE to be researching their butts off to do something different to give us gas cheaper than the next guy or they're doomed in today's rocky (to say the least) oil industry

and honestly i'm kind of ashamed at some of the people on here who said they didn't care that people were stealing from the oil companies... you have to realize that the more suffering the oil companies do (manufacturer of a daily commodity for all of us) the more suffering we will do... the same people who stole from the oil companies will be the same people siphoning gas out of your boat b/c they're pissed you're able to afford to have a "gas hogging" boat that hold a min 35 gals... yea the price of gas has gone up... buy less or live w/ it

Roonie's
04-29-2008, 09:51 AM
The price of oil is having an effect on the oil industry and it is nothing but higher profits for them!! They are making record profits due directly to the price of gas.

It is not their fault however as it is the free market at its finest. Oil companies are not setting the retail price of oil except via the NYMEX, where they sell to refiners. When the traders run the price up, oil companies naturally win. But the crude price is set by market demand i.e., what will they pay today?

Oil companies sell to refineries (very few companies own refineries). Refineries sell to distributors. Distributors sell to retailers. And finally we buy from the retailer. At every level of these distribution chains, people are trying to buy low and sell high. Most oil companies are out of the equation with the very first sell to refineries at current market prices.

A quick and dirty break down.

Jorski
04-29-2008, 09:51 AM
You sound like a damn capitalist!!


Guilty as charged!

atlfootr
04-29-2008, 09:51 AM
We all know the "bottom line" don't we.
Higher the oil, higher the cost of boat gas :mad:
Seriously dout the prices, will stop most of us from using our MC's :rolleyes:

bigmac
04-29-2008, 09:52 AM
Who steals 10,000 gallons of crude?


Somebody who has one of these, I guess.

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/mags/PopularScience/2-1940/table_oil_refinery/table_oil_refinery_0.jpg




The animosity toward oil companies is understandable, relative to most Americans' suspicion and anger toward anybody or any company that makes a lot of money.




.

coz
04-29-2008, 10:01 AM
I know you probably will scoff at the fact that I work in the oilfiled. But I have spent the last several hours dealing with the effects of high oil prices. Theft is rearing it's ugly head. So far two of wells my company operates have been victims. Individuals have stolen costly equipment right off producing wells. We have only gotten hit on two wells but another local company was hit 8 times over the last 24 hrs. The local sheriff told us that two tanks of oil have also been stolen in the last 72 hours. The equipment loss is ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 each well and the stolen oil is close to $15,000 each tank. For those not in the industry that think that the high cost is making every company super rich always remember that when the price of oil shoots up so does the equipment and cost of running it which causes people to start stealing. Just thought I would vent hope you don't mind.

Dude! with each penny that gas goes up it will only get worse :D We have siphon bandits going around arizona and sucking you vehicle tank dry right in your driveway. This is a real good reason to keep the SA 45 locked & loaded :D I would shoot any punk next to my vehicles then ask questions later. It's getting bad! It's legal to carry a firearm in this state and I think it's time to strap it on and use the Wyat Earp law enforcement method. ;)

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-29-2008, 10:18 AM
Crime doesnt pay.

wakeX2wake
04-29-2008, 10:42 AM
Crime doesnt pay.

which is why people who steal should be shot

Jorski
04-29-2008, 10:42 AM
Good piece on Peak Oil, by Eric Sprott. Sprott is a highly successful Canadian hedge fund manager, and one of the few guys out there worth listening to.



http://www.sprott.com/pdf/marketsataglance/MAAG.pdf

Roonie's
04-29-2008, 10:52 AM
Good piece on Peak Oil, by Eric Sprott. Sprott is a highly successful Canadian hedge fund manager, and one of the few guys out there worth listening to.



http://www.sprott.com/pdf/marketsataglance/MAAG.pdf


Which is what I believe is driving todays current market prices. The simple fact that oil production has barely increased over many years and demand has tripled or more in some areas during the same time. To me peak oil is not about how much oil is left in the ground but whether or not oil meets current needs. I think we have reached the peak oil simply because the demand for oil has outpaced the production currently.

This could lead to outrageous gas prices in a year or two when this is fully realized. Interesting that Bitumen which was originally considered to expensive to refine is now profitable. Found in the last paragraph of todays news on record 1quarter profits for Shell.

One of its new projects, producing bitumen a heavy form of petroleum from oil-rich sands and shale in Canada, is paying off. The company reported the segment separately from oil and gas production for the first time and it showed earnings of $249 million, more than doubling from the same quarter a year ago.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_netherlands_shell_2

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-29-2008, 10:53 AM
You guys ever hear of nuclear power?

bigmac
04-29-2008, 10:55 AM
Dude! with each penny that gas goes up it will only get worse :D We have siphon bandits going around arizona and sucking you vehicle tank dry right in your driveway. This is a real good reason to keep the SA 45 locked & loaded :D I would shoot any punk next to my vehicles then ask questions later. It's getting bad! It's legal to carry a firearm in this state and I think it's time to strap it on and use the Wyat Earp law enforcement method. ;)

Great idea!

But, first make sure your state allows for the use of lethal force in non-life-threatening situations. In most states, shooting a gas-thief will land you in jail for a long time.

Roonie's
04-29-2008, 10:59 AM
Great idea!

But, first make sure your state allows for the use of lethal force in non-life-threatening situations. In most states, shooting a gas-thief will land you in jail for a long time.


long long time. I am not sure why people even use this analogy? Would you really shoot someone stealing your gas?????? Human life seems so disposable these days.

Monte
04-29-2008, 11:03 AM
long long time. I am not sure why people even use this analogy? Would you really shoot someone stealing your gas?????? Human life seems so disposable these days.

These days? The law used to hang horse theives:rolleyes:



If gas prices keep going up stealing a tank of gas could be felony grand larceny..:rolleyes:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Coz you cant shoot people for stealing gas. Its against the rules.

Jorski
04-29-2008, 11:33 AM
You guys ever hear of nuclear power?


Yup..just ordered my nuclear powered car, boat, ship and airplane yesterday:rolleyes:

Nuclear. Good for base load electricity. Hate to be the one to tell you, but we are running out of uranium also.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-29-2008, 11:38 AM
Uranium 235 or Uranium 238 ?????

bigmac
04-29-2008, 11:40 AM
long long time. I am not sure why people even use this analogy? Would you really shoot someone stealing your gas?????? Human life seems so disposable these days.Of course not. The irony was apparently lost...I blame the site administrator.

The issue comes up a lot, though...people who promote the concept of protecting their property with firearms. It's worriesome...as much from a societal commentary standpoint as it is ignorance of the law.

TX.X-30 fan
04-29-2008, 11:54 AM
long long time. I am not sure why people even use this analogy? Would you really shoot someone stealing your gas?????? Human life seems so disposable these days.




One could look at the situation in a different light. Say the gas in this mans tank is to last for the next week while he earns money to FEED his wife and kids. So in affect this thief has put this man in a situation where he can't buy milk for his infant or feed the rest of the family, pay rent... ect.

This to me would be no different than horse thieves and cattle rustlers of the past centuries. They stole a mans livelihood and they were dealt with harshly.

I personally would allow my 100lb dog to get to know the thief first before I started blazing away. :D

Roonie's
04-29-2008, 12:06 PM
One could look at the situation in a different light. Say the gas in this mans tank is to last for the next week while he earns money to FEED his wife and kids. So in affect this thief has put this man in a situation where he can't buy milk for his infant or feed the rest of the family, pay rent... ect.

This to me would be no different than horse thieves and cattle rustlers of the past centuries. They stole a mans livelihood and they were dealt with harshly.

I personally would allow my 100lb dog to get to know the thief first before I started blazing away. :D

Its not a matter of what the situation is about or even what you think it is about. Bottom line is you would be put away in jail awhile for using lethal force in non-life threatening situation.

Jorski
04-29-2008, 12:16 PM
Lack of fuel may limit U.S. nuclear power expansion
March 21, 2007


Limited supplies of fuel for nuclear power plants may thwart the renewed and growing interest in nuclear energy in the United States and other nations, says an MIT expert on the industry.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/fuel-supply.html

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-29-2008, 12:19 PM
I tell ya this, I better not catch anyone trying to steal any Uranium from my neighborhood or the **** is gonna hit the fan.

coz
04-29-2008, 12:22 PM
long long time. I am not sure why people even use this analogy? Would you really shoot someone stealing your gas?????? Human life seems so disposable these days.

I don't want to sound like a vigilanty here but stick a hose down my tank or steal anything from me and you'll be shot, that's how it is out here, Pro Gun, so yes! Bang! :rolleyes:

Your right some people think life is disposable so what's to say that punk isn't packing a 25 and wouldn't hesitate to use it for $5 worth of gas? You never know until it's to late, I'm not going to wait and see if he want's to talk about it first :confused:

Just take a look around this nation and see what people are killing for, it's disgusting.

Roonie's
04-29-2008, 12:23 PM
Lack of fuel may limit U.S. nuclear power expansion
March 21, 2007


Limited supplies of fuel for nuclear power plants may thwart the renewed and growing interest in nuclear energy in the United States and other nations, says an MIT expert on the industry.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/fuel-supply.html

I always wondered why nuclear energy wasn't expanding I just figured it was due to cost and disposal.

Also another big oil company recorded record first quarter profits thanks to the current price of crude oil.

http://www.comcast.net/news/articles/finance/2008/02/01/Earns.Oil/

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-29-2008, 12:37 PM
Is it legal to shoot people for stealing Uranium?

coz
04-29-2008, 12:41 PM
I always wondered why nuclear energy wasn't expanding I just figured it was due to cost and disposal.

Also another big oil company recorded record first quarter profits thanks to the current price of crude oil.

http://www.comcast.net/news/articles/finance/2008/02/01/Earns.Oil/


If you want to bank on future power supplies buy stock in these.

http://www.ronsaari.com/stockImages/windmills/WindFarmPalmSpringsCA.jpg
http://news.softpedia.com/images//news2/Shanghai-Will-Have-Rooftops-with-Solar-Panels-2.JPG

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-29-2008, 01:04 PM
what if someone tries to steal your windmill Coz? you gonna shoot em???

Roonie's
04-29-2008, 01:08 PM
what if someone tries to steal your windmill Coz? you gonna shoot em???

LOL :uglyhamme :uglyhamme

TX.X-30 fan
04-29-2008, 01:12 PM
Its not a matter of what the situation is about or even what you think it is about. Bottom line is you would be put away in jail awhile for using lethal force in non-life threatening situation.





Not where I live. If I consider myself or my family is in danger is the only justification I need. Set foot in my house and I don't even need that. ;)

TX.X-30 fan
04-29-2008, 01:15 PM
Would 210 pop a cap if they were stealing this??



34233 :D

coz
04-29-2008, 01:33 PM
what if someone tries to steal your windmill Coz? you gonna shoot em???


Signs are on the fence already UMP :rolleyes:

http://www.deltapress.com/catalog/media/WS-15.jpg
http://www.deltapress.com/catalog/media/WS-18.jpg

Legally I have to warn them otherwise they'll sue me if they live :D

brucemac
04-29-2008, 01:37 PM
lol

don't forget to stick a screwdriver in their hand before you call the cops. ;)

wakeX2wake
04-29-2008, 01:49 PM
that's what i love about alabama... you're on my property and no other witness is around... i can blast your crap all over my front yard for nothing (it get a little harder to prove when there's a witness that i felt "my family or property" were in danger)... i love it... there's nothing i hate worse than a thief or a liar... i will pay to repair the metal flake if i catch someone steaking gas out of the X2 b/c i'm going to bust their crap w/ the .44 i keep beside my bed

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-29-2008, 01:55 PM
Self defense?? you dont need to shoot anyone for crumps sake. just dont wear deodorant and they wont mess with you.

JBaker
04-29-2008, 04:12 PM
that's what i love about alabama... you're on my property and no other witness is around... i can blast your crap all over my front yard for nothing (it get a little harder to prove when there's a witness that i felt "my family or property" were in danger)... i love it... there's nothing i hate worse than a thief or a liar... i will pay to repair the metal flake if i catch someone steaking gas out of the X2 b/c i'm going to bust their crap w/ the .44 i keep beside my bed

Very logical. I mean why not take a life over some gas or some footprints on your property? No wonder Alabama is one of the five most illiterate states.

coz
04-29-2008, 04:25 PM
Very logical. I mean why not take a life over some gas or some footprints on your property? No wonder Alabama is one of the five most illiterate states.

Nobody was insulting anyones intelligence here, except you now, and you just insulted a whole state :rolleyes: Just because someone would protect their property doesn't mean he can't read or write :confused:

Sodar
04-29-2008, 04:31 PM
Very logical. I mean why not take a life over some gas or some footprints on your property? No wonder Alabama is one of the five most illiterate states.

I think your pylon needs more polishing!

JBaker
04-29-2008, 05:05 PM
Nobody was insulting anyones intelligence here, except you now, and you just insulted a whole state :rolleyes: Just because someone would protect their property doesn't mean he can't read or write :confused:

Not trying to insult a whole state; just citing a statistic in what I thought to be an appropriate context.

Roonie's
04-29-2008, 05:09 PM
I can hear the theme of the dueling banjos starting

wakeX2wake
04-29-2008, 05:23 PM
Very logical. I mean why not take a life over some gas or some footprints on your property? No wonder Alabama is one of the five most illiterate states.

i just want to shoot people who steal from me... people who would just assume steal what they want from me instead of doing like a respectful human would do and going to work so they can buy what they want/need... my experiences have led me to the realization that most people who steal can infact go work for what they want (the old "if you're able to go rob somebody you're able to go to work" addage) they just care so little about what others have worked for they would assume steal it and therefore in my eyes are the scum of the Earth and should be promptly removed from it

and for the comment that seemed like it was aimed at me you couldn't be more incorrect... i happen to be a well educated individual who is also well cultured and said what i said not out of ignorance but a deeper understanding through my experiences... having been robbed both face to face and blindly i have justly developed my opinion and will continue to stick to it

Bruce
04-29-2008, 06:03 PM
Probably not a good time to debate the death penalty huh!

bigmac
04-29-2008, 06:09 PM
i just want to shoot people who steal from me... people who would just assume steal what they want from me instead of doing like a respectful human would do ....

So, like any other respectful human, we just blow their $h!t away...?

Right...anyone that would steal gasoline from me doesn't deserve to live.

coz
04-29-2008, 06:09 PM
Back to the issue at hand :rolleyes: Here's why :confused:

By JANE WARDELL, AP Business Writer
Tue Apr 29, 12:36 PM ET



LONDON - BP PLC and Royal Dutch Shell PLC, Europe's two biggest oil producers, posted forecast-busting first-quarter earnings on Tuesday thanks to record crude oil prices that are expected to bolster profits across the industry.

ADVERTISEMENT

The combined profits of $17 billion reignited calls for a windfall tax on oil profits as consumers struggle to pay for food and fuel.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown suggested that some of those profits should be reinvested in costly exploration for new oil reserves in the North Sea.

BP posted a 63 percent surge in first-quarter net profit to $7.6 billion (4.9 billion euros), while Shell reported a 25 percent rise, to a record $9.08 billion (5.81 billion euros).

Revenue at BP jumped 44 percent to $89.2 billion (57.1 billion euros), while sales at Shell soared 55 percent to $114 billion (72.95 billion euros).

Last week ConocoPhillips reported a 16 percent rise in net income to $4.14 billion. Like BP and Shell, the third biggest U.S. producer far outpaced industry expectations. More big profits are expected from the biggest two U.S. companies, Exxon Mobil Corp. and Chevron Corp., when they report first-quarter earnings later this week.

Crude oil hit $111.80 per barrel during the quarter, while gas jumped an average of 22 percent. Crude has pushed even higher since, reaching a record $119.93 per-barrel this week.

BP shares jumped 6 percent to 613 pence ($12.18), while Shell rose 4.5 percent to 25.83 euros ($40.39).

The enormous profit reports from European companies coincided with the end of a two-day refinery strike in Britain that shut off 700,000 barrels of oil per day, brought from the North Sea to a BP plant.

Truck drivers staged a protest in London's Park Lane on Tuesday, blaring their horns to protest a 30 percent rise in the price of diesel over the past year. A similar protest took place in Washington, D.C. on Monday, and it wasn't the first.

"The price of fuel is becoming something many families are struggling with," said Sheila Ranger, a spokeswoman for the RAC Foundation, a commuter advocacy group. "This will be the last straw for some motorists."

Shell's Chief Financial Officer Peter Voser said oil companies are not to blame.

"We don't understand the oil price at this stage," he said. "The fundamentals will not justify an oil price as we see it at the moment."

Shell's earnings from oil production rose 52 percent to $5.14 billion (3.3 billion euros), due almost entirely to the price increases. The company said combined production of gas and oil equivalents increased by less than 1 percent to 3.4 million barrels per day, as a 9 percent rise in gas production outweighed a 6 percent fall in oil production.

Stripping out the impact of oil inventories that have risen in value, refining profits would have fallen 20 percent, Shell said.

"It seems that better marketing and trading were able to offset the weak refining environment," analyst Alexandre Weinberg of Petercam.

Shell has invested heavily to improve production after a string of setbacks, including an accounting scandal in 2004. More recently, it has faced attacks on its pipelines in Nigeria and a forced sale of part of its stake in a major project on Russia's Sakhalin Island to a state-run enterprise.

BP's profit follows an even rougher period for the company from production outages, U.S. environmental fines and fraud and the scandal-tinged departure of its chief executive.

Chief Executive Tony Hayward, who took over from John Browne a year ago, has focused on bringing new production and refining capacity on line to improve earnings.

"At last, it appears that BP is beginning to improve its operational performance and this looks set to drive a stronger financial performance in the second half," said Tony Shephard, analyst at Charles Stanley & Co.

BP's closely watched replacement cost profit rose 48 percent to $6.59 billion (4.34 billion euros), compared with $4.44 billion in the first quarter of 2007. The replacement cost figure is viewed by many analysts as the best measure of an oil company's underlying performance because it excludes changes in the value of crude inventories, measuring the amount it would cost to replace assets at current prices.

The company said refining availability improved for the sixth successive quarter.

"BP is still not firing on all cylinders but its operational turnaround looks to be on track with a strong second half recovery in prospect," said Charles Stanley & Co. analyst Tony Shephard.

Story link http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_oil

bbymgr
04-29-2008, 06:09 PM
[QUOTE=Jorski]TScott:
Profit margins are indeed thin in the oil business. Your friend is telling you the truth. The spike in profits is because of two things:

1) This an extremely capital intensive business. That means that there are very high fixed costs. When this is the case there is a ton of operating leverage to price changes. Obviously, when oil prices increase, they make a lot more money; but these are huge businesses, thus big numbers. Big profit numbers do not necessarily equate to big margins.


Well I think this article that just came out today blows that theory out of the water. 63% profit increase for BP and 25% for Shell. It's not about the margin %, it's about the profit $. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080429/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_oil
I also have a huge problem with the rate of increase for gas. In 1988 i paid .89 cents a gallon and today it's 3.75. That's a 420% in 20 years. I have racked my brain to think of any other necessity that has gone up that much in the last 20 years......but I'm drawing a blank.

Bruce
04-29-2008, 06:27 PM
You don't bank percentages. You bank dollars.

TX.X-30 fan
04-29-2008, 07:59 PM
So, like any other respectful human, we just blow their $h!t away...?

Right...anyone that would steal gasoline from me doesn't deserve to live.




I think its much deeper than people just being blood thirsty these days. In my oppinion this is the result of the inability of our country to curd runaway crime that has plagued us for 40 years. Just in my family we have had many car stolen and broken into, my father was told to lay face down with a gun to his head as he and a friend were robbed on the river walk in San Antonio. if the authorities are unwilling to stop the wave of crime that sweeps our country can you blame individual citizens for protecting themselves? I recently moved from the metro Houston area in a large part to get away from the crime.

People where I lived were being robbed at gun point daily and home invasions were rapidly increasing. Homes in my subdivision were 300 to over mil, so this was not the inner city crime we have ignored for generations. Before I moved an elderly couple pulled into their driveway and two women dragged them from their car and beat and robbed them in broad daylight.

I don't know the answer but I do know what we have been doing has not worked. Can you really blame people for just saying " I have had enough". You know when they steal my truck its a pain in the ***, but when they steal a hard working carpenters truck and all his tools the economic affect to his life is heartbreaking. Crime hurts the poor in this country far worse than the country club set on here.

kevfischer
04-29-2008, 08:48 PM
West of wichita in Pratt

Fischer where at in KS are you from? Gotta guess around eldorado? Or out west? I feel you in the thieving thing! I work for a phone company and people have been stealing copper like crazy this year.

Workin' 4 Toys
04-29-2008, 08:52 PM
I know you probably will scoff at the fact that I work in the oilfiled. But I have spent the last several hours dealing with the effects of high oil prices. Theft is rearing it's ugly head. So far two of wells my company operates have been victims. Individuals have stolen costly equipment right off producing wells. We have only gotten hit on two wells but another local company was hit 8 times over the last 24 hrs. The local sheriff told us that two tanks of oil have also been stolen in the last 72 hours. The equipment loss is ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 each well and the stolen oil is close to $15,000 each tank. For those not in the industry that think that the high cost is making every company super rich always remember that when the price of oil shoots up so does the equipment and cost of running it which causes people to start stealing. Just thought I would vent hope you don't mind.
Well, that stinks no matter who you are.

JBaker
04-29-2008, 08:54 PM
I think its much deeper than people just being blood thirsty these days. In my oppinion this is the result of the inability of our country to curd runaway crime that has plagued us for 40 years. Just in my family we have had many car stolen and broken into, my father was told to lay face down with a gun to his head as he and a friend were robbed on the river walk in San Antonio. if the authorities are unwilling to stop the wave of crime that sweeps our country can you blame individual citizens for protecting themselves? I recently moved from the metro Houston area in a large part to get away from the crime.

People where I lived were being robbed at gun point daily and home invasions were rapidly increasing. Homes in my subdivision were 300 to over mil, so this was not the inner city crime we have ignored for generations. Before I moved an elderly couple pulled into their driveway and two women dragged them from their car and beat and robbed them in broad daylight.

I don't know the answer but I do know what we have been doing has not worked. Can you really blame people for just saying " I have had enough". You know when they steal my truck its a pain in the ***, but when they steal a hard working carpenters truck and all his tools the economic affect to his life is heartbreaking. Crime hurts the poor in this country far worse than the country club set on here.

So you don't like thieves and you'll take measures to protect yourself and loved ones from violent criminals. I might be the country club type, but I have no issue with that. I have an issue with a guy who knows he is probably (in the eyes of the law) in the wrong, but if there are no witnesses around, then he can't wait to open fire on someone.

"that's what i love about alabama... you're on my property and no other witness is around... i can blast your crap all over my front yard for nothing (it get a little harder to prove when there's a witness that i felt "my family or property" were in danger)... i love it...

Is anyone, other than its author, seriously supporting the above statement?

TX.X-30 fan
04-29-2008, 09:12 PM
Baker I think we just agreed 2 days running. 34245 :rolleyes:

bigmac
04-29-2008, 10:55 PM
never mind

Monte
04-29-2008, 11:32 PM
I think its much deeper than people just being blood thirsty these days. In my oppinion this is the result of the inability of our country to curd runaway crime that has plagued us for 40 years. Just in my family we have had many car stolen and broken into, my father was told to lay face down with a gun to his head as he and a friend were robbed on the river walk in San Antonio. if the authorities are unwilling to stop the wave of crime that sweeps our country can you blame individual citizens for protecting themselves? I recently moved from the metro Houston area in a large part to get away from the crime.

People where I lived were being robbed at gun point daily and home invasions were rapidly increasing. Homes in my subdivision were 300 to over mil, so this was not the inner city crime we have ignored for generations. Before I moved an elderly couple pulled into their driveway and two women dragged them from their car and beat and robbed them in broad daylight.

I don't know the answer but I do know what we have been doing has not worked. Can you really blame people for just saying " I have had enough". You know when they steal my truck its a pain in the ***, but when they steal a hard working carpenters truck and all his tools the economic affect to his life is heartbreaking. Crime hurts the poor in this country far worse than the country club set on here.


I agree.. AND I'll offer a solution... Get rid of all the illegal frickin people over here from wherever. Not that they are stealing directly, But by stealing jobs the indirect result is a very screwed up system.. If you have no money and can't find a job what lengths would you go to to feed your children?

Jorski
04-29-2008, 11:43 PM
Jorski said:

Profit margins are indeed thin in the oil business. Your friend is telling you the truth. The spike in profits is because of two things:

1) This an extremely capital intensive business. That means that there are very high fixed costs. When this is the case there is a ton of operating leverage to price changes. Obviously, when oil prices increase, they make a lot more money; but these are huge businesses, thus big numbers. Big profit numbers do not necessarily equate to big margins.

BBMGR said;

Well I think this article that just came out today blows that theory out of the water. 63% profit increase for BP and 25% for Shell. It's not about the margin %, it's about the profit $.

BBMGR,

Well, it is not a theory. It is a fact, and I can't help it if you don't understand it.

A large percentage profit increase in no way tells you if margins are small, reasonable or even outrageous. You assume they are outrageous, because that way you can be mad at the oil companies. All of the large oil companies have record earnings with oil at today's prices. No insight there, so let's look at those earnings a little closer and see what the truth is:

BP earned 7.75 billion, on revenues of 87.74 billion. That equals a net profit margin of 8.8%.

Royal Dutch Shell earned 9 billion, on revenues of 114 billion. That equals a net profit margin of 7.9%.

Soooo, who's theory got blown out of the water ??? What kind of return on invested capital do you think they should be allowed to earn? If they can't earn a decent return on the capital invested in the business, they will stop looking for and refining oil, and prices will rise.

Is that what you want to happen ?

bbymgr
04-30-2008, 08:20 AM
BBMGR,

Well, it is not a theory. It is a fact, and I can't help it if you don't understand it.

A large percentage profit increase in no way tells you if margins are small, reasonable or even outrageous. You assume they are outrageous, because that way you can be mad at the oil companies. All of the large oil companies have record earnings with oil at today's prices. No insight there, so let's look at those earnings a little closer and see what the truth is:

BP earned 7.75 billion, on revenues of 87.74 billion. That equals a net profit margin of 8.8%.

Royal Dutch Shell earned 9 billion, on revenues of 114 billion. That equals a net profit margin of 7.9%.

Soooo, who's theory got blown out of the water ??? What kind of return on invested capital do you think they should be allowed to earn? If they can't earn a decent return on the capital invested in the business, they will stop looking for and refining oil, and prices will rise.

Is that what you want to happen ?


Jorski,

I do understand what you are saying..... I just believe you are misguided. I managed a $50+ million P&L for several years. I too worked for a large ($30 Billion a Year) Company. What I do know is that, more Profit Dollars = a better P&L Bottom Line. I also know that in the Company I worked for, when Sales $ increased, it was more than acceptable for Margins to decrease. It was not uncommon for Stores to have Daily numbers of 125% Revenue, but 105% margin. Thus, a stores overall Margin % was lower while the Margin $ were over Budget. Overall it comes down to what you put in the Bank. And that is $, not %. You use $ to look for and refine oil not %. I didn't see a response to the 420% increase since 1988. I'm not talking about Luxury Items like alcohol, cigarettes or electronics, but items that are a needed to function in everyday life. Like Gas to get to work.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-30-2008, 09:44 AM
Wooosh! am I tired! I been up gaurding my gasoline all night drinking coffee and eating animal crackers.

coz
04-30-2008, 09:51 AM
Wooosh! am I tired! I been up gaurding my gasoline all night drinking coffee and eating animal crackers.

Whew! me too! :rolleyes: Guarding solar panels, windmills and gas is a tough job :D
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/students/images/secguard.jpg

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-30-2008, 10:02 AM
Were you drinking Coffee & eating animal crackers???

Jorski
04-30-2008, 10:49 AM
Jorski,

I do understand what you are saying..... I just believe you are misguided. I managed a $50+ million P&L for several years. I too worked for a large ($30 Billion a Year) Company. What I do know is that, more Profit Dollars = a better P&L Bottom Line. I also know that in the Company I worked for, when Sales $ increased, it was more than acceptable for Margins to decrease. It was not uncommon for Stores to have Daily numbers of 125% Revenue, but 105% margin. Thus, a stores overall Margin % was lower while the Margin $ were over Budget. Overall it comes down to what you put in the Bank. And that is $, not %. You use $ to look for and refine oil not %. I didn't see a response to the 420% increase since 1988. I'm not talking about Luxury Items like alcohol, cigarettes or electronics, but items that are a needed to function in everyday life. Like Gas to get to work.


BBMGR,

The thread started with posters angrily complaining that the oil companies were price gouging. The best measure of whether or not the oil companies are charging too much is profit margin(%), not total dollars made.

If you broke up the the large oil companies into smaller companies (ie breaking up the Bells), they would each make less dollars in sales and would make about the same margin give or take.

If you are asserting that because gasoline is a necessity, that it should have even lower margins, what do you propose ? Nationalizing the industry ? What else could you do, limit return on invested capital to some very low maximum ? All that would do is to further limit supply, and you guessed it, increase prices further.

Let me tell you, I manage private client money at a large Canadian investment firm, if I told my clients not to worry about percentage return, because they made a lot of dollars..well, I would be out of work pretty quickly.

Signed,

Not "misguided" at all.



What I do know is that, more Profit Dollars = a better P&L Bottom Line.

Now that's a serious piece of insight...your saying that more profit equals more profit...genius !

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-30-2008, 11:55 AM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

brucemac
04-30-2008, 12:09 PM
Wooosh! am I tired! I been up gaurding my gasoline all night drinking coffee and eating animal crackers.

LOL!!!!!

at the end of the day, it is what it is, right? what's this joe 18-pak going to do about it. i mean it sucks sure, but what do you do. just wish our dollar wasn't in the toilet.

Monte
04-30-2008, 12:11 PM
How about oil companies competing instead of conspriring.. That could help.. You know darn well if the gov't wanted to do something about that it could.. Too many pockets on capitol hill are getting fat..

Jesus_Freak
04-30-2008, 12:34 PM
I tell ya this, I better not catch anyone trying to steal any Uranium from my neighborhood or the **** is gonna hit the fan.

I hate to encourage you 8p , but dude this is funny!

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-30-2008, 12:39 PM
I hate to encourage you 8p , but dude this is funny!
well I wont tolerate anyone stealing energy.

I caught a guy once trying to hook some wires up to my windmill to steal electricity, and I ripped his fingernails off.

Jesus_Freak
04-30-2008, 12:42 PM
well I wont tolerate anyone stealing energy.



"Energy" cannot be stolen; it is conserved. ;) :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-30-2008, 12:47 PM
"Energy" cannot be stolen; it is conserved. ;) :D
and that your honor is why I was in the plaintiffs yard at 2am with a gas can and a garden hose. I was conserving energy. arent you worried about our planet too??

bbymgr
04-30-2008, 02:01 PM
BBMGR,

The thread started with posters angrily complaining that the oil companies were price gouging. The best measure of whether or not the oil companies are charging too much is profit margin(%), not total dollars made.

If you broke up the the large oil companies into smaller companies (ie breaking up the Bells), they would each make less dollars in sales and would make about the same margin give or take.

If you are asserting that because gasoline is a necessity, that it should have even lower margins, what do you propose ? Nationalizing the industry ? What else could you do, limit return on invested capital to some very low maximum ? All that would do is to further limit supply, and you guessed it, increase prices further.

Let me tell you, I manage private client money at a large Canadian investment firm, if I told my clients not to worry about percentage return, because they made a lot of dollars..well, I would be out of work pretty quickly.

Signed,

Not "misguided" at all.





Now that's a serious piece of insight...your saying that more profit equals more profit...genius !


Ooooohhh, Canadian........ that explains everything. No need to say more.

Patrick Hardy
04-30-2008, 02:42 PM
If anyone wants a good read on this very debatable topic, go read the Kevin Phillips novel - American Theocracy. It should open your mind a little on this subject.

gigem75
04-30-2008, 03:03 PM
I suspect the price of gas would not be quite as high as it is if the number of oil compaines was higher thus inducing more competition. Since the big mergers aka Exxon/Mobil, Connoco/Phillips etc the price has gone up. The weak dollar is also a large reason for the increase in price. Everyone says we need more refiining capacity but I ask why are refineries running at 85 percent capacity? probably to keep the price up. It's a hellva lot eaiser to do that when only a few companies own the refineries.

I just bought a 55 gal drum of methanol for my biodiesel and it was 200 bucks, it was 140 six months before that, and 90 six months before that. You can't tell me the cost to make that stuff has gone up that much, the profits have, the costs haven't.
The profit of our economy has been squeezed out of the middle class up to the top. The rich are getting richer and the middle class are the ones funding it. An when you squawk about it the response from management is well we could make this stuff overseas so shut your trap or we'll ship the manufacturing equipment to China. All of this is being done to the middle class under the guise of free trade and the global economy with the end result being wealth such as it was of the middle class being transferred upwards. There will be a correction, sad thing is sometimes those types of corrections can be bloody.

Jorski
04-30-2008, 03:06 PM
but I ask why are refineries running at 85 percent capacity?

That is about full practical capacity. They have maintenance schedules where they have to close down production, seasonal fuel changeovers etc. No such thing as 100%.

wakeX2wake
04-30-2008, 03:09 PM
ok to clarify any possibly misleading comments... i would not shoot someone for the hell of it... however if i witness anyone stealing my property and i ask them to cease and remove themselves from my property and they do not do so immediately and in a non-threatening manner they will be disposed of... and that's the end of the story... i, unlike some of the spineless left wingers out there, refuse to stand by and watch what i've worked hard to pay for be carried off by an undeserving individual... i've had a gun stuck in my face and i've come home to a house that was in essence cleaned out... anyone can get a job flipping burgers so i don't want to hear any sad story about i had to steal... i won't tolerate a thief

Jorski
04-30-2008, 03:16 PM
I just bought a 55 gal drum of methanol for my biodiesel and it was 200 bucks, it was 140 six months before that, and 90 six months before that. You can't tell me the cost to make that stuff has gone up that much, the profits have, the costs haven't.


Oil has gone up from $65 to $120 in that same time frame. Further, as far as refining costs go, what do you think is one of the biggest input costs ?

It happens to be energy itself. In fact Q1 profits at BP in refining were down from the same period a year ago.

Jorski
04-30-2008, 03:19 PM
however if i witness anyone stealing my property and i ask them to cease and remove themselves from my property and they do not do so immediately and in a non-threatening manner they will be disposed of... and that's the end of the story.

Even if it was kid making a stupid mistake? Over $30 worth of gas ?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-30-2008, 03:24 PM
Even if it was kid making a stupid mistake? Over $30 worth of gas ?
Gas is expensive.

brucemac
04-30-2008, 03:26 PM
Lol!!!

:)

bigmac
04-30-2008, 03:45 PM
Even if it was kid making a stupid mistake? Over $30 worth of gas ?

A real man, by god, will stand up for what's his and blow that kid away. No excuses, no second chances. Are we men? Or are we mice?

Kill 'em. Kill 'em all, the thieving bastards.

How else are they going to learn?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-30-2008, 03:55 PM
A real man, by god, will stand up for what's his and blow that kid away. No excuses, no second chances. Are we men? Or are we mice?

Kill 'em. Kill 'em all, the thieving bastards.

How else are they going to learn?

big mac is right. I mean how the hell can you expect people to learn anything if you arent shooting them?

coz
04-30-2008, 04:34 PM
Were you drinking Coffee & eating animal crackers???

UMP you need to try dunking these in you coffee during the night watch :rolleyes: you'll be in heaven :D

http://www.almostvegan.com/archives/images/lornadoon.gif
http://oldstersview.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/cup-of-coffee.jpg

Roonie's
04-30-2008, 04:36 PM
big mac is right. I mean how the hell can you expect people to learn anything if you arent shooting them?

fill em full of holes that will teach em to steal my $10 worth of gas. Anyways they were probably terrorists.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
04-30-2008, 04:46 PM
gas theives dont even deserve a trial. just chase them out of your yard firing at them. its the only way they will ever learn.

east tx skier
04-30-2008, 05:17 PM
gas theives dont even deserve a trial. just chase them out of your yard firing at them. its the only way they will ever learn.

Did you get GTA IV, too, UMP?

JBaker
04-30-2008, 10:47 PM
Edit: tried to upload an image.

TX.X-30 fan
04-30-2008, 11:00 PM
Youse guys are a little blood thirsty for my tastes. :o

TX.X-30 fan
04-30-2008, 11:05 PM
. Anyways they were probably terrorists.





Bush sucks!!!!!! :rolleyes:

wakeX2wake
05-01-2008, 11:25 AM
you'd be surprised what a little vigilateism would do... the good thing is... i don't have to worry about vigilatnees... i stick to my own... don't steal or borrow... i'm not saying chopping off hands is the answer but some of the criminals need to get a real good vision of the possible consequences of their actions

wakeX2wake
05-01-2008, 11:28 AM
Even if it was kid making a stupid mistake? Over $30 worth of gas ?

today he's stealing your gas tomorrow he's stealing your car and raping your daughter... people who are not taught early on the consequences of their actions usually on progress into worse criminals doing more severe crimes.. the data is out there

bigmac
05-01-2008, 11:56 AM
you'd be surprised what a little vigilateism would do... the good thing is... i don't have to worry about vigilatnees... i stick to my own... don't steal or borrow... i'm not saying chopping off hands is the answer but some of the criminals need to get a real good vision of the possible consequences of their actions


today he's stealing your gas tomorrow he's stealing your car and raping your daughter... people who are not taught early on the consequences of their actions usually on progress into worse criminals doing more severe crimes.. the data is out there



I'd consider it a personal favor if you would stop posting this stuff...it's creating an excessive amount of despair in me for American society.

In return, I will also stop posting. My wireless signal here at the country club isn't so great anyway...

Jorski
05-01-2008, 11:57 AM
people who are not taught early on the consequences of their actions usually on progress into worse criminals doing more severe crimes.. the data is out there

The data is out there??? Please post that data. I would love to see the study that suggests petty thieves commonly turn into rapists.

Maristar210
05-01-2008, 12:31 PM
The data is out there??? Please post that data. I would love to see the study that suggests petty thieves commonly turn into rapists.


Oh now were calling people stupid are we Jorski?

Nice, real nice.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wakeX2wake
05-01-2008, 12:49 PM
you're welcome to let people rob you blind and call it "a kid making a dumb mistake" or whatever else you want... but i personally don't put much faith in the local authorities ability to deal w/ it b/c it's not their stuff and they most likely honestly don't care b/c they're too busy writing people speeding tickets for driving five mph over the speed limit... so i will inforce my right to protect my self, my family, and my belongings as the U.S. Constitution so states in the 2nd Ammendment

Jorski
05-01-2008, 12:57 PM
.............

bigmac
05-01-2008, 01:48 PM
...so i will inforce my right to protect my self, my family, and my belongings as the U.S. Constitution so states in the 2nd Ammendment

You'd better re-read the second amendment.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-01-2008, 01:59 PM
Breaks my heart to see gas theives turn bad.

coz
05-01-2008, 02:17 PM
You'd better re-read the second amendment.

Doesn't it go like this???:confused:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, and shoot gas thieves shall not be infringed :banana:

Roonie's
05-01-2008, 02:19 PM
don't forget the progression into car thieves and then finally rapists.

wakeX2wake
05-01-2008, 02:38 PM
ok my last comments on this thread b/c i'm deffinately over it...

the second ammendment states that the people of the state may not have their right to bear arms may not infringed upon due to the fact that the founding fathers saw it as a necessity that the state to defend itsself... since anyone who would be stealing from me is acting against me and also the state (as i am part of the state and theft is also an illegal act against the state law) it states that i have the right to protect the state and it is my civic duty to see the laws of the state are upheld... i've never seen a case in court prosecuted on behalf of an individual it's prosecuted on behalf of the people of that state... i don't not believe all out vigilanteeism is necessary or the answer to any modern social issues but i do think if people depend solely on the state (and its officers) as the only line of personal or self defense there is a great chance of all out social uprising and unrest... ok i quit

Maristar210
05-01-2008, 02:39 PM
Tomato

tomaaato

Have a nice day :D

sdesmond
05-01-2008, 02:46 PM
..................edit

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-01-2008, 03:04 PM
I generally well regulate my militias when I do organize them.

Roonie's
05-01-2008, 04:24 PM
My militia will train birds to steal gas from the enemy.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-01-2008, 04:28 PM
My militia will be trained to shoot those theiving birds with extreme prejudice.

Roonie's
05-01-2008, 04:30 PM
My militia will be trained to shoot those theiving birds with extreme prejudice.

My militia will give the birds stealth technology and a little kevlar as backup.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-01-2008, 04:35 PM
OK, I am not getting on this escalator. next thing you know we will be aiming ICBM's at each other. and thats far too expensive for me. I mean can you imagine what the fuel costs to launch those? SHOWEEEEE!!!!

Roonie's
05-01-2008, 04:54 PM
OK, I am not getting on this escalator. next thing you know we will be aiming ICBM's at each other. and thats far too expensive for me. I mean can you imagine what the fuel costs to launch those? SHOWEEEEE!!!!

hence back to the original premise and genius of birds stealing the fuel to begin with. Why hasn't our military thought of this?

Ric
05-01-2008, 05:16 PM
Scoff? Not me pal, I say thanks for working hard to bring the lifeblood of our economy to the marketplace.

I know you probably will scoff at the fact that I work in the oilfiled. But I have spent the last several hours dealing with the effects of high oil prices. Theft is rearing it's ugly head. So far two of wells my company operates have been victims. Individuals have stolen costly equipment right off producing wells. We have only gotten hit on two wells but another local company was hit 8 times over the last 24 hrs. The local sheriff told us that two tanks of oil have also been stolen in the last 72 hours. The equipment loss is ranging from $5,000 to $10,000 each well and the stolen oil is close to $15,000 each tank. For those not in the industry that think that the high cost is making every company super rich always remember that when the price of oil shoots up so does the equipment and cost of running it which causes people to start stealing. Just thought I would vent hope you don't mind.

kevfischer
05-01-2008, 05:53 PM
thanks ric! WOW this thread is way out of control! I just wanted to relieve somestress without yelling at the ladies in the office. And now we have escalated into shooting at gas theifs before they become child rapists. However, it is very bizarre but funny. We are all a bunch of twisted minds.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-01-2008, 07:37 PM
This thread is just fine.

boofer
05-01-2008, 10:52 PM
Myths and Facts about Oil Refineries in the United States

The Bush administration and some members of Congress blame environmental rules for causing strains on refining capacity, prompting shortages and driving up prices. But in reality, it is uncompetitive actions by a handful of companies with large control over our nation’s gas markets that is directly causing these high prices.

Myth 1: Oil refineries are not being built in the U.S. because environmental regulations, particularly the Clean Air Act, are so bureaucratic and burdensome that refiners cannot get permits.

Fact: Environmental regulations are not preventing new refineries from being built in the U.S. From 1975 to 2000, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) received only one permit request for a new refinery. And in March, EPA approved Arizona Clean Fuels’ application for an air permit for a proposed refinery in Arizona. In addition, oil companies are regularly applying for – and receiving – permits to modify and expand their existing refineries.[1]

Myth 2: The U.S. oil refinery market is competitive.

Fact: Actually, industry consolidation is limiting competition in oil refining sector. The largest five oil refiners in the United States (ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips, BP, Valero and Royal Dutch Shell) now control over half (56.3%) of domestic oil refinery capacity; the top ten refiners control 83%. Only ten years ago, these top five oil companies only controlled about one-third (34.5%) of domestic refinery capacity; the top ten controlled 55.6%. This dramatic increase in the control of just the top five companies makes it easier for oil companies to manipulate gasoline supplies by intentionally withholding supplies in order to drive up prices. Indeed, the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) concluded in March 2001 that oil companies had intentionally withheld supplies of gasoline from the market as a tactic to drive up prices—all as a “profit-maximizing strategy.” A May 2004 U.S. Governmental Accountability Office (GAO) report also found that mergers in the oil industry directly led to higher prices—and this report did not even include the large mergers after the year 2000, such as ChevronTexaco and ConocoPhillips. Yet, just one week after Hurricane Katrina, the FTC approved yet another merger of refinery giants—Valero Energy and Premcor—giving Valero 13% of the national market share. These actions, while costing consumers billions of dollars in overcharges, have not been challenged by the U.S. government.

Myth 3: The United States has maxed out its oil refining capability.

Fact: Oil companies have exploited their strong market position to intentionally restrict refining capacity by driving smaller, independent refiners out of business. A congressional investigation uncovered internal memos written by the major oil companies operating in the U.S. discussing their successful strategies to maximize profits by forcing independent refineries out of business, resulting in tighter refinery capacity. From 1995-2002, 97% of the more than 920,000 barrels of oil per day of capacity that have been shut down were owned and operated by smaller, independent refiners. Were this capacity to be in operation today, refiners could use it to better meet today’s reformulated gasoline blend needs.

Profit margins for oil refiners have been at record highs. In 1999, for every gallon of gasoline refined from crude oil, U.S. oil refiners made a profit of 22.8 cents. By 2004, the profits jumped 80% to 40.8 cents per gallon of gasoline refined. Between 2001 and mid-2005, the combined profits for the biggest five refiners was $228 billion.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-02-2008, 08:24 AM
What a night!

WOW am I tired.

So I was up all night gaurding my gasoline stash, and the theives were out in packs last night. Well, the first attempt they made to steal my gas, I figured I better do the right thing and call the police. So I dial them up and the phone call went like this:

"hello ********* police dept"

"Hey this is UMP, some crazy ba**ards are stealing my gas!!!!!"

"They are?"

"yes"

"your sure?"

"Yep, I am watching them syphon the gas out of the tanks now with my night vision pervoculars."

"well, we arent coming out for that, its coffee time. Just shoot them."

"Really? you want me to shoot gas thievs?"

"sure, we generally dont respond to gas theif calls, we just tell civilians to shoot them unless its some sweet little old lady that is likely to have fresh baked goods in the house. its the only way they will ever learn, and its much less paper work for us. If we come out and shoot them, we will have to work over time filling out reports, so go ahead and pop them."


so, me being the soft hearted fool that I am, I cant shoot them. Its just not in me. SO I try the less violent solution. I tried to do a poor mans TAZE on them. I hooked up some wires to my windmill in the front yard and ran around the yard whistling the mission impossible song and tried to sneak up and zap the gas thiefs in the arse with my wires. well, unfortunatly I was successful. ANd when I tazed gas theif #1, the wires arced, and the gas fumes ignited. wooosh. you should see my shoes.

so I had to haul the burning gas thieves to the hospital ER. my interior of my truck has burning bad guy all over it and now needs to be cleaned. and my gas stock is all burned up, and my windmill was unhooked all night so I couldnt make coffee this morning.

I think I should have just listen to the donut kings and shot.

6ballsisall
05-02-2008, 08:41 AM
Does anyone know what Hoosier Bob is drinking?

UMP and Lakey wanna know.

coz
05-02-2008, 08:54 AM
What a night!

WOW am I tired.

So I was up all night gaurding my gasoline stash, and the theives were out in packs last night. Well, the first attempt they made to steal my gas, I figured I better do the right thing and call the police. So I dial them up and the phone call went like this:

"hello ********* police dept"

"Hey this is UMP, some crazy ba**ards are stealing my gas!!!!!"

"They are?"

"yes"

"your sure?"

"Yep, I am watching them syphon the gas out of the tanks now with my night vision pervoculars."

"well, we arent coming out for that, its coffee time. Just shoot them."

"Really? you want me to shoot gas thievs?"

"sure, we generally dont respond to gas theif calls, we just tell civilians to shoot them unless its some sweet little old lady that is likely to have fresh baked goods in the house. its the only way they will ever learn, and its much less paper work for us. If we come out and shoot them, we will have to work over time filling out reports, so go ahead and pop them."


so, me being the soft hearted fool that I am, I cant shoot them. Its just not in me. SO I try the less violent solution. I tried to do a poor mans TAZE on them. I hooked up some wires to my windmill in the front yard and ran around the yard whistling the mission impossible song and tried to sneak up and zap the gas thiefs in the arse with my wires. well, unfortunatly I was successful. ANd when I tazed gas theif #1, the wires arced, and the gas fumes ignited. wooosh. you should see my shoes.

so I had to haul the burning gas thieves to the hospital ER. my interior of my truck has burning bad guy all over it and now needs to be cleaned. and my gas stock is all burned up, and my windmill was unhooked all night so I couldnt make coffee this morning.

I think I should have just listen to the donut kings and shot.

I hear ya UMP! I cuaght these guys last night but I didn't shoot because they had this green tobaco they gave me and after we had a couple ciggarettes I wasn't worried about my gas because I saw a vision of moses and he said share & share alike. "cough""cough""cough" :D

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/images/cheech_and_chong_gas.jpg

BTW: Does that little old lady have anymore baked goods??? I'm hungry now

Roonie's
05-02-2008, 08:58 AM
What a night!

WOW am I tired.

So I was up all night gaurding my gasoline stash, and the theives were out in packs last night. Well, the first attempt they made to steal my gas, I figured I better do the right thing and call the police. So I dial them up and the phone call went like this:

"hello ********* police dept"

"Hey this is UMP, some crazy ba**ards are stealing my gas!!!!!"

"They are?"

"yes"

"your sure?"

"Yep, I am watching them syphon the gas out of the tanks now with my night vision pervoculars."

"well, we arent coming out for that, its coffee time. Just shoot them."

"Really? you want me to shoot gas thievs?"

"sure, we generally dont respond to gas theif calls, we just tell civilians to shoot them unless its some sweet little old lady that is likely to have fresh baked goods in the house. its the only way they will ever learn, and its much less paper work for us. If we come out and shoot them, we will have to work over time filling out reports, so go ahead and pop them."


so, me being the soft hearted fool that I am, I cant shoot them. Its just not in me. SO I try the less violent solution. I tried to do a poor mans TAZE on them. I hooked up some wires to my windmill in the front yard and ran around the yard whistling the mission impossible song and tried to sneak up and zap the gas thiefs in the arse with my wires. well, unfortunatly I was successful. ANd when I tazed gas theif #1, the wires arced, and the gas fumes ignited. wooosh. you should see my shoes.

so I had to haul the burning gas thieves to the hospital ER. my interior of my truck has burning bad guy all over it and now needs to be cleaned. and my gas stock is all burned up, and my windmill was unhooked all night so I couldnt make coffee this morning.

I think I should have just listen to the donut kings and shot.

did the gas thief try stealing your car when you took him to the ER? Did he try and leg hump you?

coz
05-03-2008, 01:37 PM
Bogged Down?
Most expensive places to buy gas
Rank Country Price/gal
1. Bosnia-Herzegovina $10.86
2. Eritrea $9.58
3. Norway $8.73
4. United Kingdom $8.38
5. Netherlands $8.37
6. Monaco $8.31
7. Iceland $8.28
8. Belgium $8.22
9. France $8.07
10. Germany $7.86
111. United States $3.45
:steering: :steering: :steering::steering:

Ric
05-03-2008, 02:09 PM
it might be cool to live in monaco though

coz
05-05-2008, 08:11 AM
:cry:

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/05/05/t1home.gas.mon.01.gi.jpg

jraben8
05-05-2008, 08:57 AM
I don't remember the last time I saw a "full serve" sign.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-05-2008, 09:26 AM
Uh-Oh !

captain planet
05-06-2008, 02:08 PM
Oil reaches $122/barrell!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

sdesmond
05-06-2008, 03:01 PM
Oil reaches $122/barrell!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:


On its way to $200

coz
05-08-2008, 03:13 PM
which is why people who steal should be shot


Like this dude http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/05/08/20080508manshot0508.html they do things different here in az, if this had been calif. the article would have said the car owner is under arrest.

Check out the comments from the local az'ers

Chief
05-08-2008, 03:20 PM
Bogged Down?
Most expensive places to buy gas
Rank Country Price/gal
1. Bosnia-Herzegovina $10.86
2. Eritrea $9.58
3. Norway $8.73
4. United Kingdom $8.38
5. Netherlands $8.37
6. Monaco $8.31
7. Iceland $8.28
8. Belgium $8.22
9. France $8.07
10. Germany $7.86
111. United States $3.45
:steering: :steering: :steering::steering:

Price per gallon:

Saudi Arabia .23
Venezuala .33

coz
05-08-2008, 03:44 PM
Price per gallon:

Saudi Arabia .23
Venezuala .33

I knew Saudi had low prices but I'm blown away by .23 :eek:

Chief
05-08-2008, 08:46 PM
The only way to beat this is for every American to stop doing any unnecessary driving and suck it up and make the oil surplus go up.

I know here in Jacksonville on a Saturday or Sunday you can go out and see thousands of people just driving around wasting gas.

If we did only the necessary driving for a month just think of the surplus that would happen. I have never believed the "buy no gas for a day" theory, but if we Americans only bought what we needed then things would change.

Yes I'm an offender too, so I don't gripe too loud but push is coming to shove.

P.S. Stop buying Chinese crap too! No need to chime in Jorski I know your position.

ski_king
05-08-2008, 09:16 PM
I knew Saudi had low prices but I'm blown away by .23 :eek:
Yea, but drinking water is around $8.00 per gallon there

Roonie's
05-08-2008, 09:28 PM
Yea, but drinking water is around $8.00 per gallon there

Still cheaper depending on brand. A gallon of Evian here is around $9-12.00 a gallon. A normal 22oz bottle is around $1.50-2.00 for Evian water.

Chief
05-08-2008, 09:30 PM
Still cheaper depending on brand. A gallon of Evian here is around $9-12.00 a gallon. A normal 22oz bottle is around $1.50-2.00 for Evian water.

When you put things into perspective that's really wacked!

justinglow
05-08-2008, 09:39 PM
Yea, but drinking water is around $8.00 per gallon there

I would drink from a water hose if that was the trade for .23 gallon gas!!

TX.X-30 fan
05-08-2008, 10:45 PM
Oil reaches $122/barrell!! :banana: :banana:




Dude why in the world would that make you happy??? Do you enjoy suffering, by that I mean people who are just getting by and have to spend this for fuel because their government failed them.:mad:


US oil production has fallen by 40% since 1985 while consumption has risen by 30%. All this due to the moratorium on drilling in this nation. Bill Clinton vetoed the ANWAR deal in 1995 and placed many area's out of reach for drilling. As did many other states along the continental shelf.

We have billions of verifiable barrels of reserves off the shores of this country and for some reason we feel no need to tap this reserve to keep our country safe and moving forward.


I will say this to all the granola crunching soy milk drinking sudo communists, the folks out in this country that make sh!t happen have had enough of the global warming, spotted owl, yellow breasted warbler bu!!sh!t to last a lifetime.

This country runs on oil, so f&ck!n get over it. And by the way your house is warmed and cooled with oil, the very way everyone here makes a living or has lights on at work is because of oil. Choose to be some tree hugging dip SH!t if you choose, but let the rest of us get on with our lives!!!!!!!

sdesmond
05-09-2008, 07:55 AM
I think he was being sarcastic about it reaching $122 barrel

TX.X-30 fan
05-09-2008, 08:33 AM
I think he was being sarcastic about it reaching $122 barrel



If so I apologize to CP, he knows I'm just a right-wing kook anyway. :D


The point was not that anyway, these boneheads in congress are truly worthless on both sides of the isle. I heard some clueless congress women from Ohio the other day state we don't need new sources of oil we need alternatives. Well yes as alternatives become viable we will begin to use them, they are not here yet so we need oil production. She goes on to cram he foot down he throat by saying ANWAR would not help and anyway it would be years away from going on line. With logic like this we will never have new domestic oil production.


If our government decided we would become energy self sufficient in 10 years today, we as a nation could make this happen.

wakeX2wake
05-09-2008, 09:00 AM
it's kind of hard to lean on the Saudis to drop the oil prices b/c as soon as we say that they say give us our money... they are the second largest lean holder against the U.S.... not a lot we can do until we owe them less... we're depending on their leans and their oil... we're going through a extremely similar thing in the metal industry... we sign a contract for $3.50/lb for 4M lbs of metal... they get and offer for $3.60/lb and they call us and say hey you're not getting your metal and we say *** and they say well give us the $14M and we say ok i'll get it to you in two days... by that time the metal is gone and the price is now $3.75/lb and we say *** so we go to buy it somewhere else and there's no where else to buy it so instead of the 4M lbs we agreed to for 14M we're buying 3.7M lbs for the same amount... they don't have to honor their contracts (same as the crude suppliers) b/c they have the controling hand here... no where else to get the stuff and not enough money up front

coz
05-09-2008, 11:37 AM
I think he was being sarcastic about it reaching $122 barrel


Here's the latest http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080509/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices :mad:

sdesmond
05-09-2008, 12:49 PM
I didnt think that response out much. I should have said the excitement is sarcasm.

captain planet
05-09-2008, 01:39 PM
If so I apologize to CP, he knows I'm just a right-wing kook anyway. :D


The point was not that anyway, these boneheads in congress are truly worthless on both sides of the isle. I heard some clueless congress women from Ohio the other day state we don't need new sources of oil we need alternatives. Well yes as alternatives become viable we will begin to use them, they are not here yet so we need oil production. She goes on to cram he foot down he throat by saying ANWAR would not help and anyway it would be years away from going on line. With logic like this we will never have new domestic oil production.


If our government decided we would become energy self sufficient in 10 years today, we as a nation could make this happen.

Oh yea....totally being sarcastic. :( Weak dollar, plus high global demand, plus shrinking global production = expensive oil. Our best days are behind us when it comes to oil and the price per barrel.

I was going to post that oil is now over $126/barrell (insert dancing bananas here), but when I saw how irritated that got everyone I decided not such a good idea.

What can you do anyway? Nothing. Smart money invests in alternative energy starting now, cuz we're going to need it.

coz
05-09-2008, 01:59 PM
Smart money invests in alternative energy starting now, cuz we're going to need it.


UMP and I already know this :D

http://www.globalcool.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/sharp_solar_panels.jpg
http://d3095932.ejt86.ejtechinternational.com/images/featurephoto2.jpg

Invest now for 15 to 20 years down the road and you'll be sitting pretty. That's my hopes :D

captain planet
05-09-2008, 02:07 PM
UMP and I already know this :D

http://www.globalcool.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/sharp_solar_panels.jpg
http://d3095932.ejt86.ejtechinternational.com/images/featurephoto2.jpg

Invest now for 15 to 20 years down the road and you'll be sitting pretty. That's my hopes :D
Yea, I'm gonna call my guy today and see what is out there to invest in.

Jorski
05-09-2008, 02:09 PM
US oil production has fallen by 40% since 1985 while consumption has risen by 30%. All this due to the moratorium on drilling in this nation. Bill Clinton vetoed the ANWAR deal in 1995 and placed many area's out of reach for drilling.

US oil production has fallen primarily due to the decline rates of mature fields. This is happening all over the world, in the North Sea, in Russia. Oil production has peaked in many parts of the world, and global production is likely very close to having peaked.

Global oil production/supply has been stuck at 85 million barrels per day for the last three years. All the while, the price has tripled and still supply has stayed stuck.

As far as Anwar, well I posted the following in another thread a while ago:

Though it seems tempting to point to Alaska etc, it pales in comparison to decline rates we are facing from old mature reserves; US domestic production rates peaked several years ago...it gets even worse when you look abroad; bye bye North Sea. Recently, it appears that russian oil production has also peaked. Peak oil is not so much about whether or not we have 50, 75 or 100 years of oil in the ground, but rather it is about the rate at which we consume oil, versus the rate at which we can get it out of the ground. The Energy Information Agency (the government department responsible for this kind of stuff...so this is what Bush is telling you, not someone with a communist agenda) has suggested that even if Alaska was running at peak production in 2025, the effect would be to reduce US reliance on foreign oil from 70% to 66% - hardly any difference at all. Never mind any environmental impact nor the difficulties in building a pipeline that long or pumping oil through that pipeline at freezing temperatures.

There are few answers to this problem that don't begin with the words, "everyone consume less.."

Jorski
05-09-2008, 02:14 PM
What can you do anyway? Nothing. Smart money invests in alternative energy starting now, cuz we're going to need it.

Captain Planet,

I understand where you are coming from, but my sense is that it's harder to make money in pioneering industries than it first appears (think dot.com etc); however, I suspect that there will be a surprising amount of money made from what becomes scarce.

So I am heavily invested in oil and natural gas. BTW, my guess is that for a number of reasons, the cost inputs for energy producers will climb faster than end prices. If ths turns out to be true, you will do much better in the commodity than in the producer.

Anyhow, have at it !:cool:

TX.X-30 fan
05-09-2008, 02:54 PM
The answer is not just anwar but all the other known and unknown reserves. I think you are missing all the offshore reserves that are currently off limits. Also look at the increase in known reserves from the mid 80's to present. It has grown exponentially, which means we really have no clue how much more will be found. What about the Brazilian find, in production we can tell Chavez and the middle east to fly a kite. Assuming we produce the oil that's just known to be here now.


I suppose beaches and frozen tundra are more inportant than US citizens, makes sense to me. :confused:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2008, 04:16 PM
Has anyone seen my 9? Did I leave it out by the gas cans again?

wakeX2wake
05-09-2008, 04:17 PM
Has anyone seen my 9? Did I leave it out by the gas cans again?
don't do that the gas theives will shoot you with it!!!

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2008, 04:19 PM
don't do that the gas theives will shoot you with it!!!
OK Darwin.

wakeX2wake
05-09-2008, 04:19 PM
OK Darwin.
LOL........

JBaker
05-09-2008, 05:57 PM
I will say this to all the granola crunching soy milk drinking sudo communists, the folks out in this country that make sh!t happen have had enough of the global warming, spotted owl, yellow breasted warbler bu!!sh!t to last a lifetime.

You better watch it, UMP was nursed with soy milk.

Jorski
05-10-2008, 09:22 PM
What about the Brazilian find, in production we can tell Chavez and the middle east to fly a kite. Assuming we produce the oil that's just known to be here now.


Yes, it is a big one...BUT:

1) if it all could be brought to the surface immediately, it would equal just one year of global demand at current levels!

2) This find is very deep. The ocean floor is about 2000 feet below the ocean's surface in this location, and the oil is about another 2000 feet below that.

3) No technology currently even exists to put this field into production.

4) If they can get the engineering figured out over the next 5-10 years they may well be pumping oil...but it isn't exactly going to be cheap oil!

You also pointed out that there have been a large number of new reserves added over the last several years, and that is true. The problem is that the new reserves have been about exactly matched by the decline rates of existing fields. Supply has not increased for three years despite the price of oil tripling!

Better get used to high oil prices, we haven't seen anything yet!:(

bigmac
05-11-2008, 04:38 PM
Better get used to high oil prices, we haven't seen anything yet!:(

That's completely true just based on current worldwide supply and demand issues. When you throw in the crumbling dollar and the voracious futures traders, we've got $5/gallon gasoline by this fall.

We can all walk to work and decrease our consumption, or if we want to do something REALLY fruitless we can try a boycott, but guys, that just doesn't address the problem. The good ol' US of A isn't in the worldwide driver's seat anymore. Worldwide demand is just now ramping up thanks to China and India and even if we could bring ourselves to decrease our oil usage, it will be a mere drop in the bucket compared to what Chindia will demand.

Time for us Americans to suck it up. Now we're becoming an also-ran on the world stage and we're gonna have to pay also-ran prices.

JimN
05-11-2008, 04:57 PM
"Global oil production/supply has been stuck at 85 million barrels per day for the last three years. All the while, the price has tripled and still supply has stayed stuck."

OPEC and anyone else who sells world-wide knows that if the supply stays at 85M bbl/day, hte Law of Supply and Demand dictates that the price will increase. Even if the US becomes the best customer of Brazil, we shouldn't think the price will drop, just because they want to do us a favor. Why should they sell to us at a discount when they can get the going rate from someone else, like Chindia? If it was our own oil field, it would be a good thing, because we wouldn't HAVE to sell it outside of the US and that would decrease our need to buy from outside.

However, whenever I go through Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas and other places that have large-ish oil fields, I see very few wells operating. Why is that? Are they waiting for the wells to re-fill (don't hold your breath)? If they won't refill, why not dismantle them and use the land for something else? Why can't they use different oil-recovery methods?

bbymgr
05-12-2008, 12:40 AM
"Global oil production/supply has been stuck at 85 million barrels per day for the last three years. All the while, the price has tripled and still supply has stayed stuck."

OPEC and anyone else who sells world-wide knows that if the supply stays at 85M bbl/day, hte Law of Supply and Demand dictates that the price will increase. Even if the US becomes the best customer of Brazil, we shouldn't think the price will drop, just because they want to do us a favor. Why should they sell to us at a discount when they can get the going rate from someone else, like Chindia? If it was our own oil field, it would be a good thing, because we wouldn't HAVE to sell it outside of the US and that would decrease our need to buy from outside.

However, whenever I go through Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas and other places that have large-ish oil fields, I see very few wells operating. Why is that? Are they waiting for the wells to re-fill (don't hold your breath)? If they won't refill, why not dismantle them and use the land for something else? Why can't they use different oil-recovery methods?

My Grandparents are outside of Enid Oklahoma and have 5 wells that haven't been pumping for 15 years because the Oil Companys pay for them to be shut down. They even had geological studies done to see if there are deposits deeper and the studies show that there are, but the companies won't drill deeper. It is just another way to control the price.

bigmac
05-12-2008, 01:57 AM
My Grandparents are outside of Enid Oklahoma and have 5 wells that haven't been pumping for 15 years because the Oil Companys pay for them to be shut down. They even had geological studies done to see if there are deposits deeper and the studies show that there are, but the companies won't drill deeper. It is just another way to control the price.

I'm sure that will all come out in the Congressional investigation.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-12-2008, 08:48 AM
Better get used to high oil prices, we haven't seen anything yet!:(
Are you trying to say we should all buy more guns to gaurd our gasoline?

coz
05-12-2008, 10:02 AM
Are you trying to say we should all buy more guns to gaurd our gasoline?

You don't need to buy them UMP they're laying around in bags in the bottom of california rivers http://www.kcra.com/news/16234772/detail.html :rolleyes:

wakeX2wake
05-12-2008, 11:09 AM
they were probably used to shoot gas theives

Jorski
05-12-2008, 01:26 PM
My Grandparents are outside of Enid Oklahoma and have 5 wells that haven't been pumping for 15 years because the Oil Companys pay for them to be shut down. They even had geological studies done to see if there are deposits deeper and the studies show that there are, but the companies won't drill deeper. It is just another way to control the price.


OR ...they are simply uneconomic wells. If they don't produce enough flow (something that happens as well deplete and pressure drops) or there isn't enough remaining volume it may not be profitable to continue to pump.

I know that you desperately want someone to blame. First everyone syas that the oil companies are gouging and making windfall profits. Now you think that if these miniature little trickles of oil were just pumped, we would be swimming in cheap oil. It just isn't true.

Just how much do you know about these wells ? flow rates, oil receovered ? remaining oil ? cost of drilling ? How deep? What quality ? Any sour gas ? EROEI?

JimN
05-12-2008, 04:18 PM
Bottom line right now is that the dollar is worth a lot less than it was. The US will have to pay more dollars but Canada, for instance, is paying close to the same rate as before if they can use their currency. If not, they can buy dollars for a lot less than before and it doesn't matter since the conversion rate is very favorable.

wakeX2wake
05-12-2008, 04:42 PM
due to metal prices... in U.S. currency the nickel is actually worth $.07 and the penny is actually worth $.012

chudson
05-12-2008, 05:10 PM
due to metal prices... in U.S. currency the nickel is actually worth $.07 and the penny is actually worth $.012

A good friend of mine owns a scrap metal yard in town and he said iron is at an all time high!!!

JimN
05-12-2008, 05:14 PM
It's not just metal prices but that is definitely another indication of how far the US has lost control of its own destiny. China and India are now two of the leading consumers of these materials and because they will pay more/there's more demand, the prices are going through the roof. I personally think the US should conserve more of the existing scrap and raw materials in order to contain the cost. It's great for someone who is holding a lot of scrap, though. I had a box of wire scraps from jobs I had done and when I took it in, I was surprised to see that I was getting $1.10/lb for insulated wire. That's more than triple what I got the last time. My first thought when I left was, "No wonder so may construction sites are losing wire!". I had read about a building that was scheduled for demo in PA, and someone broke in so they could strip the wires out of the conduit. The estimate was that the wire was worth $110K in scrap value. We have a dilapidated shopping mall here and the new owner reported last year that "someone had stolen all of the rooftop HVAC equipment". OK, nobody saw anything and it would take a crane to remove any of them. Right!

If pennies were still solid copper, they'd be worth more than that, too.

chico
05-12-2008, 06:26 PM
Her in southern ontario guys are getting electrocuted stealing ground wires from utility poles,Im a refrigeration mechanic and some places that have outdoor refrigerant lines are being ripped right off the wall.Scrap copper is over $3:00 a pound.

bbymgr
05-12-2008, 06:30 PM
OR ...they are simply uneconomic wells. If they don't produce enough flow (something that happens as well deplete and pressure drops) or there isn't enough remaining volume it may not be profitable to continue to pump.

I know that you desperately want someone to blame. First everyone syas that the oil companies are gouging and making windfall profits. Now you think that if these miniature little trickles of oil were just pumped, we would be swimming in cheap oil. It just isn't true.

Just how much do you know about these wells ? flow rates, oil receovered ? remaining oil ? cost of drilling ? How deep? What quality ? Any sour gas ? EROEI?


Well, I know that in 1965 they had the 7th largest producing well in the US. I also have seen the Geo Studies that said " estimated twice the volume of the original deposit". I also know that no matter what anyone says... you will have some form of rebuttal because you seem to think that you are "Authority" on the industry. And to the heart of my rant... I also KNOW that 20 years ago I spent 3 months at Fort Benning Georgia. That is what know.

cbryan70
05-12-2008, 06:31 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Naste Craft
05-12-2008, 06:42 PM
It's not just metal prices but that is definitely another indication of how far the US has lost control of its own destiny. China and India are now two of the leading consumers of these materials and because they will pay more/there's more demand, the prices are going through the roof. I personally think the US should conserve more of the existing scrap and raw materials in order to contain the cost. It's great for someone who is holding a lot of scrap, though. I had a box of wire scraps from jobs I had done and when I took it in, I was surprised to see that I was getting $1.10/lb for insulated wire. That's more than triple what I got the last time. My first thought when I left was, "No wonder so may construction sites are losing wire!". I had read about a building that was scheduled for demo in PA, and someone broke in so they could strip the wires out of the conduit. The estimate was that the wire was worth $110K in scrap value. We have a dilapidated shopping mall here and the new owner reported last year that "someone had stolen all of the rooftop HVAC equipment". OK, nobody saw anything and it would take a crane to remove any of them. Right!

If pennies were still solid copper, they'd be worth more than that, too.



I hear you on the price of wire and cable....

I work for anixter a large dis. for wire and cable and we watch the price of copper very closely. In our warehouses they keep the bare copper under extremely high surveillance because how high the scrap
value is.

TX.X-30 fan
05-12-2008, 08:04 PM
Well, I know that in 1965 they had the 7th largest producing well in the US. I also have seen the Geo Studies that said " estimated twice the volume of the original deposit". I also know that no matter what anyone says... you will have some form of rebuttal because you seem to think that you are "Authority" on the industry. And to the heart of my rant... I also KNOW that 20 years ago I spent 3 months at Fort Benning Georgia. That is what know.







WOW!!!! nOW THAT'S MY KINDA POST!!!! :D :D

Jorski
05-12-2008, 08:24 PM
Well, I know that in 1965 they had the 7th largest producing well in the US.

Wow! 1965 eh ? I guess that 1965 data is quite compelling. Billions of dollars just sitting there and no one wants them. US oil production has been in decline since the early 1970's.

bbymgr
05-12-2008, 08:36 PM
Why do you think oil production started to decline in the 70's? Maybe it's because they stopped drilling. The timeline between the decline and when they started to pay to not drill deeper seem to be aligned.

"Learned not to listen at Benning"...... that is funny. I'm going to forward that on to some RI's that will get a real out of it.

coz
05-12-2008, 09:43 PM
We have a dilapidated shopping mall here and the new owner reported last year that "someone had stolen all of the rooftop HVAC equipment". OK, nobody saw anything and it would take a crane to remove any of them. Right!

If pennies were still solid copper, they'd be worth more than that, too.

This is a real big problem in Az :rolleyes: not just a/c units but anything that's scapable :mad: The state is cracking down at scrap yards and making it harder for the thiefs to cash in :woohoo: But it's still a big time problem.

Jorski
05-12-2008, 11:17 PM
Did you not read the part about more oil below? Why do you think oil production started to decline in the 70's? Maybe it's because they stopped drilling. The timeline between the decline and when they started to pay to not drill deeper seem to be aligned.

Your right. The ground is full of oil.

If there was oil that was economically viable, someone would drill it. You should buy it from the oil company, they would sell it to you for the right price. Your assertion that US oil decline is just because they stopped drilling is just plain silly...check the rig count stats.

Think about your claim for a minute. You are saying that the oil companies, who are all about profit, are ignoring cheap plentiful oil that is located nearby, in a friendly domain, in favour of difficult and expensive offshore oil. Right, that makes sense.

You know about a year and a half ago I got similarly flamed on this board for suggesting that U.S. real estate was overpriced, and that the house as an ATM was about over and a recession was likely...funny how that turned out.

bbymgr
05-13-2008, 06:46 AM
I think you have the wrong impression. I'm not angry at the oil prices at all. I drive a company vehicle, and they pay for all the gas, personal and business.

coz
05-13-2008, 07:51 AM
I like gas!

bigmac
05-13-2008, 07:58 AM
................

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 08:17 AM
I cant keep up this pace much longer. I had to shoot two more gas thieves last night. But being being the bleeding heart liberal that I am, I do not shoot to kill. Instead, I load shotgun shells with Rock salt, and shoot them in the a$$. its my way of "tagging" or "identifying" gas thieves for the authorities. that way, they just have to wait for the call from the ER, finish their coffee and donuts, and head over to the ER and arrest them once they get bandaged up.

boy do I need sleep. Imagine how the pace is going to pick up when gas hits $5.00 per gallon?

Gonzo
05-13-2008, 08:31 AM
But being being the bleeding heart liberal that I am, I do not shoot to kill.


UMP, You better get that fixed, I hear its hard to guard gas when you are laying on ground passed out from lack of blood.;) ;)

captain planet
05-13-2008, 08:44 AM
Totally inappropriate addition to this thread. Generally, the tone of this forum is to disagree with respect, not name-calling. I would request that bbymgr edit his posts to reflect a more respectful tone and use more discretion in posting in the future.
I'll second that.

Maristar210
05-13-2008, 08:59 AM
[quote=bbymgr]Well, I know that in 1965 they had the 7th largest producing well in the US. I also have seen the Geo Studies that said " estimated twice the volume of the original deposit". I also know that no matter what anyone says... you will have some form of rebuttal because you seem to think that you are "Authority" on the industry. And to the heart of my rant... I also KNOW that 20 years ago I spent 3 months at Fort Benning Georgia. That is what know.[/QUOTE

See you guys...

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 09:02 AM
We currently are able to drill on less than 15% of all offshore deposits. The rest are protected or otherwise unavailable. I know how dumb this sounds but is there a slight chance we could increase US production if we fully utilized these known resources.

We cant just keep saying (oh these are years away from production and will not help us now), truth is they will never help with this attitude.


And I to am appalled at the abrasive nature of the discourse!! :D :D

6ballsisall
05-13-2008, 09:10 AM
Self implosion of TMC headed in the foreseeable future............:rolleyes:

coz
05-13-2008, 09:15 AM
We currently are able to drill on less than 15% of all offshore deposits. The rest are protected or otherwise unavailable. I know how dumb this sounds but is there a slight chance we could increase US production if we fully utilized these known resources.

We cant just keep saying (oh these are years away from production and will not help us now), truth is they will never help with this attitude.


And I to am appalled at the abrasive nature of the discourse!! :D :D

True :mad: I saw something yesterday saying even if we tapped our resources it would take up to 20 years before we'd up and running at full production so were left relying on others until then, and the more time they BS about it the longer it will be. I say tap the freak'n sources!!!:mad:

coz
05-13-2008, 09:44 AM
I cant keep up this pace much longer. I had to shoot two more gas thieves last night. But being being the bleeding heart liberal that I am, I do not shoot to kill. Instead, I load shotgun shells with Rock salt, and shoot them in the a$$. its my way of "tagging" or "identifying" gas thieves for the authorities. that way, they just have to wait for the call from the ER, finish their coffee and donuts, and head over to the ER and arrest them once they get bandaged up.

boy do I need sleep. Imagine how the pace is going to pick up when gas hits $5.00 per gallon?

Hey UMP! check this out http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/05/13/20080513windenergy0513.html My portfolio loves articles like this :D Looks like I'm gonna need a bigger gun to protect my windmills :banana:

Forget the 9 make mine .50 cal
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/2396104746_f7e1aa3560_b.jpg

Roonie's
05-13-2008, 09:45 AM
I like gas.

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 09:45 AM
More than one oppinion on why gas is going up.


http://thetruthproject.us/2001/09/11/the-myth-of-peak-oil/

Gonzo
05-13-2008, 10:15 AM
A large chunck of our network is down in the Raleigh area due to theifs going into a power substation and hacking off copper (and our fiber in the process). UMP if you run out of gas can you come guard my copper?

JimN
05-13-2008, 10:32 AM
Guys- "lighten up, Francis!" This isn't your personal forum. Kiss and make up or go somewhere else if you want to insult each other.

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 10:38 AM
You mean the dark side??? 8p

Sodar
05-13-2008, 11:06 AM
All Thread Participants:

I have not been following this thread like I should have been, but it has reached the point that my intervention is required. I was sent a few complaints about hostile comments and name calling within the thread. I understand that we all have our opinions, but name calling and aggressive posts are NOT what TeamTalk is about. I am currently going through all the posts and editing/deleting all the material that is hostile and uncalled for. In the future, please feel free to contribute and provide your opinions, but in a way that is more conducive to the friendly environment that TeamTalk tries to maintain. If you are unable to do this, I kindly ask that you no longer participate.

Thank You!

Sodar
05-13-2008, 11:30 AM
All cleaned up. Keep it clean!

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 11:53 AM
Thanks Cameron, you are a great guy!

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 12:02 PM
Thanks Cameron, you are a great guy!




I couldn't have said it better myself. :D

JimN
05-13-2008, 12:24 PM
"You mean the dark side???"

Never been there, haven't been invited and if it's a flamefest (NTTAWWT), I'm not too interested. A forum on the Taunton Press site gets that way about politics and if you think this one had ruffled feathers, that other one was all out war.

"This is fargin' WAR!"
Darker humor and that kind of thing is fine but I really don't want to deal with the hostility.

"Can't we (sob), can't we just get along?"

I'm not that bad but I really am sick of it.

coz
05-13-2008, 12:27 PM
Just throwing a log on http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080513/ap_on_bi_ge/oil_prices;_ylt=ApbZRZamJqqif9_dPb6xtOWs0NUE
Have a nice day! :D

JimN
05-13-2008, 12:29 PM
Like I said before, they react to fear and greed. Effin' idiots!

The supply hasn't changed in three years.

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 12:33 PM
"You mean the dark side???"

Never been there, haven't been invited and if it's a flamefest (NTTAWWT), I'm not too interested. A forum on the Taunton Press site gets that way about politics and if you think this one had ruffled feathers, that other one was all out war.

"This is fargin' WAR!"
Darker humor and that kind of thing is fine but I really don't want to deal with the hostility.

"Can't we (sob), can't we just get along?"

I'm not that bad but I really am sick of it.




I think some posts are hard to understand now that have been altered.



Yes the dark side has become a flamefest lately. :D :D

Sodar
05-13-2008, 12:35 PM
Yes the dark side has become a flamefest lately. :D

In more ways than two! :D 8p :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 01:29 PM
"You mean the dark side???"

Never been there, haven't been invited and if it's a flamefest (NTTAWWT), I'm not too interested.
.
The darkside has looser rules, well....basically a few rules which we cannot discuss here. but just use common sense and I am sure you can figure out what they are. the cool part is, we dont really have this type of behavior there, even with the lack of rules. Most there are friends and buds from here, and its a good group. The focus of the Darkside is humor for the most part. It allows us to have a place to make jokes and post things we cant here. it keeps the nonsense and excessively goofy stuff, and excessivley risque pics off of here, and everyone is happy that way.

Personally, if these guys wanna carry this verbal fuel war over there, I dont mind. I am sure they powers that be would be glad to set them up with user ID's. :popcorn:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 01:32 PM
I think some posts are hard to understand now that have been altered.



Yes the dark side has become a flamefest lately. :D :D


You know what Stu?? you can kiss my I dont care if you do because I dont need any more of so if you have a problem with that care and go to dont let the door hit you on the way out. :D

Nice edit here Sodar!

trickskier
05-13-2008, 01:42 PM
You know what Stu?? you can kiss my I dont care if you do because I dont need any more of so if you have a problem with that care and go to dont let the door hit you on the way out. :D

Nice edit here Sodar!
WTH??? Have you been taking English lessons from rod again??? 8p

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 01:43 PM
That's rich UMP. 8p

sand2snow22
05-13-2008, 01:49 PM
Imagine how the pace is going to pick up when gas hits $5.00 per gallon?

Biodiesel at the station closest to my house is $4.99/gallon.

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 02:00 PM
Biodiesel at the station closest to my house is $4.99/gallon.




You live near Wille Nelson??

captain planet
05-13-2008, 02:20 PM
Oil at $127/barrel. Gas went from 3.68 to 3.95 in three hours in my town today. :woohoo: :guitar: :banana: :headbang:

Roonie's
05-13-2008, 02:31 PM
I knew I should have filled the boat tank yesterday!!

sdesmond
05-13-2008, 02:36 PM
Oil at $127/barrel. Gas went from 3.68 to 3.95 in three hours in my town today. :woohoo: :guitar: :banana: :headbang:


That happened a week ago here in NW Indiana. It went from 3.65 to 3.99. Yesterday I saw 4.05 for 87 yesterday.

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 02:40 PM
Oil at $127/barrel. Gas went from 3.68 to 3.95 in three hours in my town today. :woohoo: :guitar: :




34783 :D :D

sdesmond
05-13-2008, 02:56 PM
34783 :D :D
Am I missing something:confused:

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 03:00 PM
Am I missing something:confused:




Yes...... 8p

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 03:01 PM
Quit turning this into a political thread Stu.

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 03:15 PM
Quit turning this into a political thread Stu.




I'm off to Venezuela .23 a gallon, anyway Chavez can't be as bad as Bush. ;)

coz
05-13-2008, 03:17 PM
Quit turning this into a political thread Stu.

http://www.churchillcounty.org/clerktrs/images/donkeyelephant.gif
:banana:

captain planet
05-13-2008, 03:28 PM
34783 :D :D
TX.X-30, In my estimation that is funniest post you have ever put on this board!! :purplaugh

Ric
05-13-2008, 03:40 PM
http://www.churchillcounty.org/clerktrs/images/donkeyelephant.gif
:banana: man I am away for a few days and this whole thread went gey

Maristar210
05-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Hey Cameron why don't you go surfing with your boys in Frisco :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Ric has spoken.

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 03:44 PM
34785 34785 .........

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 04:57 PM
I cant wait to get to the gas station and over pay for gas today! WOOOO HOOOO!!!!!!!!!:D :)

Sodar
05-13-2008, 05:01 PM
:wavey: Steve!

Ric
05-13-2008, 05:07 PM
work work work work

TX.X-30 fan
05-13-2008, 05:09 PM
This will come as a shock to your loved ones, but no sense in living a lie. :D

Sodar
05-13-2008, 05:18 PM
This will come as a shock to your loved ones, but no sense in living a lie. 34791 :D

I agree....

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 05:49 PM
I cant belive how this thread ruint us. cant we all just be friends? I mean I am even willing to be friends with Ric if it means unity here, even if Ric WONT send me 56,000 pirated songs.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 09:23 PM
I guess Steve has spoken now too.

6ballsisall
05-13-2008, 09:25 PM
I still haven't figured out how to change my impeller.

What about Hoosier Bob, anyone know what he's drinkin?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 09:28 PM
I still haven't figured out how to change my impeller.

What about Hoosier Bob, anyone know what he's drinkin?
Hey Mister basisalsl6slbls, you cant even figure out how to change your avatar, how the heck you gonna figure out how to change your impeller?

Maristar210
05-13-2008, 09:29 PM
Hey Cameron why don't you go surfing with your boys in Frisco :D
:D ..

lanier92prostar
05-13-2008, 09:30 PM
I cant wait to get to the gas station and over pay for gas today! WOOOO HOOOO!!!!!!!!!:D :)
After paying 4.49 for diesel today, I wish I had my old 1500 HD back.:rolleyes:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-13-2008, 09:32 PM
After paying 4.49 for diesel today, I wish I had my old 1500 HD back.
there is someone you should talk to.