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coz
04-22-2008, 09:47 AM
Sounds like the US is getting desperate to get people http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/04/22/20080422troops-felon0422.html :confused:

atlfootr
04-22-2008, 10:38 AM
Send 'em ALL ILLEAGALS and the homeless for obvious reasons.
This way any "Sex Offenders" out there can get what's rightfully com'n to them.

TMCNo1
04-22-2008, 12:30 PM
This day and time, I think it should be mandatory that certain length sentences, certain crimes, a certain age window, that they be required to serve a 4-6 year term in the military as part of their sentence and the same for illegal aliens that are caught in a aggressive roundup campaign, both men and women, straight to bootcamp and to the front lines. If they survive, after a 6 year term, give them a honorary citizenship, cause they earned it. Also bring back the draft, if for nothing else to teach the younger generation some respect, discipline, regimentation that the younger generation no longer gets at home and in school.
If kids drops out of high school or gets suspended from school, over 16 y/o straight to bootcamp and to the front lines, if younger, straight to military school. If a kid goes to college and drops out, straight to bootcamp and straight to the front lines! If they want to party, drink, etc., do it on R&R or keep your nose clean, get a education or get one in the military! :twocents:

atlfootr
04-22-2008, 12:33 PM
Hell w/ the "bootcamp," send 'em on the frontline w/ no guns.

flipper
04-22-2008, 12:37 PM
I agree, if you want in this country....earn it. As for criminals, use them for checking for car bombs and clearing streets before everybody else follows.

atlfootr
04-22-2008, 12:45 PM
I like the checking for car bomb idea 8p

Farmer Ted
04-22-2008, 01:02 PM
First of all, let's clarify one small detail.

It's the Army and Marine Corps that are lowering their standards and allowing Felons in. Not the Air Force

I cringe everytime I hear somone mention "let's bring the draft back"

every single person who joins the military is a volunteer, they stepped up and volunteered to follow the rules and live/work/play by them

with the all volunteer force, we still get dip$hits who decide they don't have to follow the rules and can use drugs, not pay their bills, download child porn on government computers, use their Govt issued credit cards to buy unathorized stuff blah blah blah

remember these clowns volunteered, you want to force someone to join my profession and live by a higher standard?

start building prisons, the rule breakers will need a place to stay

wakeX2wake
04-22-2008, 01:09 PM
First of all, let's clarify one small detail.

It's the Army and Marine Corps that are lowering their standards and allowing Felons in. Not the Air Force

I cringe everytime I hear somone mention "let's bring the draft back"

every single person who joins the military is a volunteer, they stepped up and volunteered to follow the rules and live/work/play by them

with the all volunteer force, we still get dip$hits who decide they don't have to follow the rules and can use drugs, not pay their bills, download child porn on government computers, use their Govt issued credit cards to buy unathorized stuff blah blah blah

remember these clowns volunteered, you want to force someone to join my profession and live by a higher standard?

start building prisons, the rule breakers will need a place to stay

well stated and great insight... it's a way of life you have to love to want to do... just like most people wouldn't want my job and understandably so... i also don't want the local pathologist's job either... a girl who works in his office had to watch him cut the top of a 2 week old baby's head... ain't for me

ronmackay
04-22-2008, 11:45 PM
I do a lot of 'lurking' here and not much posting. I'm lame; I have no avatar or cool stuff by my name...

In fact, I am sad today-- sold my boat this weekend, because I am deploying this fall as a Transition Team Leader for the Iraqi Army. (FYI, boat was a 2001 Maristar- green and white with a 2005 tower and bimini--my first boat, I loved it, I'm sad to see it go, and I'm gonna buy a new Mastercraft when I get back.)

But I have to chime in...

The Army hires 80,000 new people a year. 511 'felons' equates to 0.006% of the force. The rest of the "Cat IVs" (guys who needed waivers for behavior or education issues) boosted the number to about 4% of the force for 2007. What the article doesn't mention are some other statistics: In 1980, 52% of the people who came in the Army were classified as CAT IVs. In 2007's recruits, over 3200 had a bachelor's degree; 250 had a masters degree, and 20 folks had doctorate degrees. Is the Army perfect? Heck no. But I challenge you to find a better one on the planet.

Here is a story about one of the CAT IVs: Corporal Angelo Vaccaro tried to enlist, but was denied due to past drug use. Three years later, he was successful, and the Army became his home and he served as a medic with 10th Mountain, where he received two Silver Stars for bravery (the second one postumously).

http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=news.newsDtl&did=3619

The US Army and the rest of the Armed forces have always represented opportunity. Opportunity for those in this country to make something of themselves, opportunity for others in oppressed countries to enjoy freedom and some of the liberties we take for granted here. In many ways I will take the "CAT IVs" the media leads you to believe who are destroying the quality of our forces (CAT IVs like CPL Vaccarro who made some mistakes in life and are trying to make amends) over the majority of the selfish, spoiled entitlement-expecting kids and their parents who don't think service to the Nation is good enough for their kid any day of the week.

-Breathe-

Didn't mean to get fired up, just wanted to tell the other side of the story, the one you don't hear much about. Stepping off the soap box and back into the shadows...:cool:

Monte
04-22-2008, 11:54 PM
I do a lot of 'lurking' here and not much posting. I'm lame; I have no avatar or cool stuff by my name...

In fact, I am sad today-- sold my boat this weekend, because I am deploying this fall as a Transition Team Leader for the Iraqi Army. (FYI, boat was a 2001 Maristar- green and white with a 2005 tower and bimini--my first boat, I loved it, I'm sad to see it go, and I'm gonna buy a new Mastercraft when I get back.)

But I have to chime in...

The Army hires 80,000 new people a year. 511 'felons' equates to 0.006% of the force. The rest of the "Cat IVs" (guys who needed waivers for behavior or education issues) boosted the number to about 4% of the force for 2007. What the article doesn't mention are some other statistics: In 1980, 52% of the people who came in the Army were classified as CAT IVs. In 2007's recruits, over 3200 had a bachelor's degree; 250 had a masters degree, and 20 folks had doctorate degrees. Is the Army perfect? Heck no. But I challenge you to find a better one on the planet.

Here is a story about one of the CAT IVs: Corporal Angelo Vaccaro tried to enlist, but was denied due to past drug use. Three years later, he was successful, and the Army became his home and he served as a medic with 10th Mountain, where he received two Silver Stars for bravery (the second one postumously).

http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=news.newsDtl&did=3619

The US Army and the rest of the Armed forces have always represented opportunity. Opportunity for those in this country to make something of themselves, opportunity for others in oppressed countries to enjoy freedom and some of the liberties we take for granted here. In many ways I will take the "CAT IVs" the media leads you to believe who are destroying the quality of our forces (CAT IVs like CPL Vaccarro who made some mistakes in life and are trying to make amends) over the majority of the selfish, spoiled entitlement-expecting kids and their parents who don't think service to the Nation is good enough for their kid any day of the week.

-Breathe-

Didn't mean to get fired up, just wanted to tell the other side of the story, the one you don't hear much about. Stepping off the soap box and back into the shadows...:cool:


Good soapbox...

puck_11
04-23-2008, 02:01 AM
First of all, let's clarify one small detail.

It's the Army and Marine Corps that are lowering their standards and allowing Felons in. Not the Air Force


Wow, way to sell out your brothers and sisters in the Army and the Marines :rolleyes:

I guess the Air Force just recruits the white collar criminals that cost the American tax payers, ie Thundervision and the Boeing contract bidders :confused:

Chief
04-23-2008, 07:47 AM
Hey, if someone get's their rear's in trouble and see that they screwed up and try to move forward with their lives and become valuable then let them in. If they continue to screw up kick their assess out with a big chicken dinner "BCD" or other wise know as Bad Conduct Discharge.

Some of the idiots the military gets now are just as dangerous with out criminal records. Dumbass kills.

Farmer Ted
04-23-2008, 08:37 AM
Wow, way to sell out your brothers and sisters in the Army and the Marines :rolleyes:

I guess the Air Force just recruits the white collar criminals that cost the American tax payers, ie Thundervision and the Boeing contract bidders :confused:


we don't recruit them, apparently we create them

the said thing is only the enlisted ones get hammered, the zeros get away with it most of the time

coz
04-23-2008, 09:34 AM
I do a lot of 'lurking' here and not much posting. I'm lame; I have no avatar or cool stuff by my name...

In fact, I am sad today-- sold my boat this weekend, because I am deploying this fall as a Transition Team Leader for the Iraqi Army. (FYI, boat was a 2001 Maristar- green and white with a 2005 tower and bimini--my first boat, I loved it, I'm sad to see it go, and I'm gonna buy a new Mastercraft when I get back.)

But I have to chime in...

The Army hires 80,000 new people a year. 511 'felons' equates to 0.006% of the force. The rest of the "Cat IVs" (guys who needed waivers for behavior or education issues) boosted the number to about 4% of the force for 2007. What the article doesn't mention are some other statistics: In 1980, 52% of the people who came in the Army were classified as CAT IVs. In 2007's recruits, over 3200 had a bachelor's degree; 250 had a masters degree, and 20 folks had doctorate degrees. Is the Army perfect? Heck no. But I challenge you to find a better one on the planet.

Here is a story about one of the CAT IVs: Corporal Angelo Vaccaro tried to enlist, but was denied due to past drug use. Three years later, he was successful, and the Army became his home and he served as a medic with 10th Mountain, where he received two Silver Stars for bravery (the second one postumously).

http://www.vfw.org/index.cfm?fa=news.newsDtl&did=3619

The US Army and the rest of the Armed forces have always represented opportunity. Opportunity for those in this country to make something of themselves, opportunity for others in oppressed countries to enjoy freedom and some of the liberties we take for granted here. In many ways I will take the "CAT IVs" the media leads you to believe who are destroying the quality of our forces (CAT IVs like CPL Vaccarro who made some mistakes in life and are trying to make amends) over the majority of the selfish, spoiled entitlement-expecting kids and their parents who don't think service to the Nation is good enough for their kid any day of the week.

-Breathe-

Didn't mean to get fired up, just wanted to tell the other side of the story, the one you don't hear much about. Stepping off the soap box and back into the shadows...:cool:

Just thought I'd let you know since I started this thread, this isn't bashing the army at all, I was in the army stationed with the 8th infantry division (mechanized) in germany, M109A2 howitzer driver ( I think they're M109A6's now). The 8thID was disbanded after desert storm and I was proud to be a part of it. When I joined there was little qualifacitions that you needed and they were taking people without high school diplomas but I know you couldn't join back then with a felony. It's the un-popularity of the 2 wars wer'e in that's making the military take these people, noone wants to sign up to something that has no sight in end. Also these mutiple tours of combat duty is taking it's toll on our troops. I support you guys with all my heart but all this military action is hurting our country and people. Sorry to hear you have to go to Iraq, keep your head down and come back and get that MC back in the garage.

1st Battalion 2nd Field Artillery - The 1st & 2nd "The Old Regulars" (Big Guns!) Huyah! :D

puck_11
04-23-2008, 02:24 PM
Hey, if someone get's their rear's in trouble and see that they screwed up and try to move forward with their lives and become valuable then let them in. If they continue to screw up kick their assess out with a big chicken dinner "BCD" or other wise know as Bad Conduct Discharge.


I agree, sometimes the one with the bad background will outperform his counterparts because he knows he has to work harder and better than his buddies due to his background. Also sometimes people get caught in what was an innocent prank back in the day is now treated by the courts as far worse.

Farmer Ted, I wasn't trying to pick a fight either, just pointing it out that all our services aren't without fault.

Good luck ronmackay, be safe! With all the money you'll be saving over there, perhaps a new MC when you get back!

ronmackay
04-23-2008, 02:26 PM
coz, thank you for your service.

My intent was not to bash the post, but instead to say things that aren't being heard. Despite the unpopularity, there is a lot of good going on over there that doesn't get covered (not sensational enough to generate ratings in the 24 hour news media rat race, I suppose).

In my opinion and my previous experience as an ROTC instructor and officer recruiter, kids today have misconceptions about what the Army is about, who is in it, and what it's doing, and that is mostly because the influencers in their lives (parents, coaches, teachers, etc) have no basis to judge due to their lack of service, lack of contact with people in the military (less than 1% of Americans have served in the military) and because of the media's unbalanced coverage. We've all had 'moments of youthful indiscretion' and sometimes folks deserve another shot. Lucky for them, the Army is in a position to provide them the opportunity to get a re-do. Now, if they screw that one up, then doom on them.

But, I recognize I am biased, and I chug the kool aid every day... We certainly have made a lot of mistakes over the past seven years fighting a resilient and determined foe, but until somebody with policy making authority tells us otherwise, we will do what we have done for over 232 years: Guarantee the freedom to be free and disagree (and recreate at the lake with family and friends in really cool boats).

Jesus_Freak
04-24-2008, 01:57 PM
coz, thank you for your service.

My intent was not to bash the post, but instead to say things that aren't being heard...

You should post more often. Excellent insight.