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H20skeefreek
04-22-2008, 08:59 AM
I'm not one to normally post much that is off topic, as a matter of fact, the off topic stuff kind of annoys me b/c there's not much talk about MasterCraft's on here, but a few comments from people recently have really gotten to me. Really touched a nerve.

I know we've talked about buying American before, but this is another similar topic that really gripes me. Now don't get me wrong, I do occasionally shop online when there are no local alternatives but:

What is everyone going to do when all of the experts that work at stores go out of business b/c of eBay and other online retailers. How are you going to feel when you HAVE to buy everything off the internet, and there isn't anyone left who has direct product knowledge. You'll have to call up someone who lives in India to ask about product knowledge for a product made in China that is designed for use in the US. But oh, wait, b/c you don't have a job anymore, because no one is in need of your services, you can't afford to buy it anyway......good luck going water skiing with your 20 y/o ski and a paddle (no boat).

It's no secret that manufacturing facilities in the US are leaving as fast as lemmings can jump off a cliff, b/c of the high cost of labor in the US, which is tearing this country apart.

So, if the American people are going to have jobs, they are going to have to SELL stuff that is made overseas.....but who are they going to sell it to, more people that sell stuff that's made overseas, but if we even outsource where we buy from, where does that leave us?

I'm really worried about this country....anyone else??? Pretty soon, even the doctors and lawyers won't have any clients with any money, so they'll be paddling on thier skis too!

wakeX2wake
04-22-2008, 10:08 AM
i buy things online that i simlply cannopt buy here... if i were to want to purchase a ronix wakeboard i would have to drive 2 hrs to the southside fo birmingham or 2.5 hrs north to nashville tn... i agree if you can buy stuff locally then you deffinately should but if it's just not there to buy what do i do?... i'm certainly not going to pay $400 for a wakeboard i don't like or don't want... and i'm really not going to drive 2 hrs to hope they have one in stock when i get there... agreed buy at home... when you can

loeweb
04-22-2008, 10:22 AM
It all goes back to loyalty to friends and community members. Here in NE I try to mom and pop shop as much as I feel I can afford to. I hate Wal Mart simply because of the damage they do to these smaller stores. Buy American if at all possible but more importantly at all cost!

bigmac
04-22-2008, 10:24 AM
If the American people are going to have jobs, they're going to have to take a cut in pay.



>

H20skeefreek
04-22-2008, 10:54 AM
I agree, but that's another issue. We also need to buy from the people we work for and other similar businesses. We need to keep ourselves employed by creating demand for our own services.

Ryan
04-22-2008, 11:01 AM
Online retailing is one of the best ways American companies succeed today. If you know of some significant online retailers that are in India, please share. I feel just fine supporting Amazon.com, or Costco.com over a struggling Circuit City. If you need product knowledge, do you not search CNet, or Edmunds and truly get and trust information from sales people? Ebay and Craigslist primarily comprise used goods that won't ever be counted toward GDP or a significant method of distribution for a manufacturer of new goods. And as the dollar has weakened a lot of US and foriegn manufacturing companies are reinvesting in the US.

For many of us manufacturers it is difficult to support and promote with small retailers where velocity doesn't justify the cause. But, I'm in an industry where wholesalers and distributor models fill in the gaps between direct buyers and provide our products to retailers at a price that affords sufficient margin. I am a huge fan of the little guys for my business. Part because they are more agile and can take on new items faster without bi-annual updates that many big guys have, but more so that they develop character, environment and unique assortment that meets shoppers varrying needs. Still, not even 10% of our business gets products into the hands of consumers via the internet.

"...the high cost of labor in the US, which is tearing this country apart."
I agree and that's why I'm not a union fan. They did well and served valuable purpose right up to the 70's. When they are not in play mfrs succeed (ex:car mfrs in TN, AL & MS).

"...where does that leave us?"
Within that, frankly, we are revitalizing American companies by selling goods & services to China. Did you miss how much GM and CocaCola made internationally and particularly in China last year? I'm of this funny mindset that God created all of us, so what's the difference in who makes or sells as long as we have a balanced economy?

6ballsisall
04-22-2008, 11:03 AM
Theres no doubt change is constant and those and those businesses that dont change with the times will be forced to change.

I don't buy what I would consider a large portion of items online but I do buy things here and there which I have trouble finding in the stores. I tend to research products online quite a bit so I am knowledgeable when I make the purchase (or don't)

As for the comment about buying stuff online and losing that knowledgeable person at the store that helps you out, I disagree with that statement. I've been looking at getting a reel mower lately and been doing all kinds of research to find the right one for my lawn, learning about my grass, etc..... and have talked with two companies (via phone, email, and their online chat) and both have been extremely informational and helpful. I think most E-commerce's today that are succesful and seeing that element of customer service is important are doing those types of things.

At the end of the day the internet isn't a fad, it's not going away, and it will continue to change the way we buy and sell products and services. It will change the way our labor force stacks up here in the US but it will also create new opportunities too.

sdesmond
04-22-2008, 11:06 AM
It all goes back to loyalty to friends and community members. Here in NE I try to mom and pop shop as much as I feel I can afford to. I hate Wal Mart simply because of the damage they do to these smaller stores. Buy American if at all possible but more importantly at all cost!


Can the smaller stores afford to sell $4 prescriptions? I think Wal Mart does alot of good things and people are taking advantage of the lower prices. There is nothing wrong with that. It makes me laugh when people act like they are to good to shop there and would rather pay higher prices because of that. There are nothing wrong with mom and pop stores but I can't justify paying higher prices just to shop there.

6ballsisall
04-22-2008, 11:07 AM
Online retailing is one of the best ways American companies succeed today. If you know of some significant online retailers that are in India, please share. I feel just fine supporting Amazon.com, or Costco.com over a struggling Circuit City. If you need product knowledge, do you not search CNet, or Edmunds and truly get and trust information from sales people? Ebay and Craigslist primarily comprise used goods that won't ever be counted toward GDP or a significant method of distribution for a manufacturer of new goods. And as the dollar has weakened a lot of US and foriegn manufacturing companies are reinvesting in the US.

For many of us manufacturers it is difficult to support and promote with small retailers where velocity doesn't justify the cause. But, I'm in an industry where wholesalers and distributor models fill in the gaps between direct buyers and provide our products to retailers at a price that affords sufficient margin. I am a huge fan of the little guys for my business. Part because they are more agile and can take on new items faster without bi-annual updates that many big guys have, but more so that they develop character, environment and unique assortment that meets shoppers varrying needs. Still, not even 10% of our business gets products into the hands of consumers via the internet.

"...the high cost of labor in the US, which is tearing this country apart."
I agree and that's why I'm not a union fan. They did well and served valuable purpose right up to the 70's. When they are not in play mfrs succeed (ex:car mfrs in TN, AL & MS).

"...where does that leave us?"
Within that, frankly, we are revitalizing American companies by selling goods & services to China. Did you miss how much GM and CocaCola made internationally and particularly in China last year? I'm of this funny mindset that God created all of us, so what's the difference in who makes or sells as long as we have a ballanced economy?


Great points Ryan. To add to that, you mentioned big companies succesful in the e-commerce world. But don't forget, just like in business in general, our commerce system thrives mostly on small to medium business. I've recently been involved in some brokering activities of e-commerce businesses (mainly smaller to medium sized) and you'd be awful shocked at the nice return these businesses are bringing their owners. You'd be even more shocked if you knew how little of time most of them work. Even buying existing businesses like this with your own capital you'd never see the type of returns these businesses bring in the stock market.

bigmac
04-22-2008, 11:18 AM
"Buying locally" assumes that one lives in an area where the population density makes that possible. For many of us, that means anywhere from 2-4 hours on the road. I can order many of those items online, all from US companies by the way, and have them delivered to my door in far less time than it would take me to arrange the 3-5 hours on the road to go to Duluth, St. Cloud, or Minneapolis. Furthermore, online customer service and technical help is generally more likely to provide accurate product help than a local guy behind the counter. A few years ago, I was going to buy an expensive camera and lens. I drove all the way to Minneapolis to go to National Camera Exchange - 5 hours out of my day. Not only did I get a ridiculously high price, I was given almost bizarre misinformation by the guy behind the counter. What a total waste of time. As soon as I got home, I got the answers to my questions online, then logged onto B&H Photo and ordered the equipment, which was delivered 2 days later.

Ryan
04-22-2008, 11:24 AM
Great points Ryan. To add to that, you mentioned big companies succesful in the e-commerce world. But don't forget, just like in business in general, our commerce system thrives mostly on small to medium business. I've recently been involved in some brokering activities of e-commerce businesses (mainly smaller to medium sized) and you'd be awful shocked at the nice return these businesses are bringing their owners. You'd be even more shocked if you knew how little of time most of them work. Even buying existing businesses like this with your own capital you'd never see the type of returns these businesses bring in the stock market.


Yep, it's nuts. I was at dinner in So-CA recently with some internet guys. It's insane what has been done with drugstore.com, bodybuilding.com or 1800diapers.com. I need some capital...anyone want to fund an online retailer? Maybe Jeff and I can get it up & hummin with a nice kicker for your investment.

6ballsisall
04-22-2008, 11:26 AM
Yep, it's nuts. I was at dinner in So-CA recently with some internet guys. It's insane what has been done with drugstore.com, bodybuilding.com or 1800diapers.com. I need some capital...anyone want to fund an online retailer? Maybe Jeff and I can get it up & hummin with a nice kicker for your investment.


You rang???:D

loeweb
04-22-2008, 12:35 PM
Can the smaller stores afford to sell $4 prescriptions? I think Wal Mart does alot of good things and people are taking advantage of the lower prices. There is nothing wrong with that. It makes me laugh when people act like they are to good to shop there and would rather pay higher prices because of that. There are nothing wrong with mom and pop stores but I can't justify paying higher prices just to shop there.


I never said I don't shop there, just said I hate it. I hate waiting in line to check myself out for groceries. Put a warm body at the register and make me feel like my money matters to you. If I wanted to give money to a machine I would go to a casino or make deposits to my bank account at the ATM. I will go there to get some things that I know are less there, but I feel that I can get prices close enough to W-mart at the local Hy-Vee to satisfy my needs and I also get to see a friendly face and they love to be my checker (somedays)

stuartmcnair
04-22-2008, 12:38 PM
I disagree that it is about the cost of labor. I think it has more to do with our punitive tax code.

Take a look at this website (with an open mind) and you might see a way out of the mess we are in.

Fair Tax (http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer)

H20skeefreek
04-22-2008, 12:52 PM
Oh, it's not JUST the hight cost of labor. I also have done some reading on the FairTax, it's an interesting concept, and a good start, but it needs some work. Do some research on it on www.factcheck.com (http://www.factcheck.com) it's interesting who gets to carry the tax burden as the plan stands. It's the middle class individual, which I don't think that is who it is intended to hurt. I was a Huckabee supporter, and he believed in FairTax. Unfortunately, I don't the we'll ever have a President "Huck". What a horrible name to be cursed with and try to run for the highest office in this country.

But my point is that Americans are buying themselves out of jobs. Buying foriegn made goods, buying from online retailers (many retailers are "owned" in America, but staffed overseas) and at the same time, they are demanding $30 an hour to make a widget and wondering where their jobs are going.

sdesmond
04-22-2008, 12:59 PM
I never said I don't shop there, just said I hate it. I hate waiting in line to check myself out for groceries. Put a warm body at the register and make me feel like my money matters to you. If I wanted to give money to a machine I would go to a casino or make deposits to my bank account at the ATM. I will go there to get some things that I know are less there, but I feel that I can get prices close enough to W-mart at the local Hy-Vee to satisfy my needs and I also get to see a friendly face and they love to be my checker (somedays)

I hear what you are saying. Unfortunatley that is how they pass the lower prices on to the consumer. They sacrifice customer service and quality of help. That is their downfall.

loeweb
04-22-2008, 01:09 PM
I hear what you are saying. Unfortunatley that is how they pass the lower prices on to the consumer. They sacrifice customer service and quality of help. That is their downfall.

I agree. I guess I am old fashioned and want to talk to/see someone when I buy things.