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wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 09:36 PM
We hit the lake today and my oil pressure dropped to zero. The Valves started ticking signaling that the lifters weren't getting any oil. Had to be towed in. Took it by the shop where Monte has his boat and he said that either the oil pump is bad or it spun a bearing. The time before last my dad was driving it and he noticed that the oil pressure gauge kept fluxuating while at a costant speed. Could this be an indication that the pump was going bad. And I had been hearing a squeeking noise and thought that is was the belt. Could that have also been caused be the oil pump going bad? I am going to get it in the shop Saturday and start unhooking everything so we can hoist it out. I'm hoping it's the oil pump and not a spun bearing. Anyone experience this before?

T Scott
04-09-2008, 09:42 PM
Could it simply be the guage that has gone bad?

TMCNo1
04-09-2008, 09:45 PM
Could it simply be the guage that has gone bad?

Or the sending unit is bad, I'd check them first, before disconnecting everything.

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 09:47 PM
Could it simply be the guage that has gone bad?
I don't think I would have taken it by a shop if it would have been running fine. We had to be towed in.

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 09:49 PM
Or the sending unit is bad, I'd check them first, before disconnecting everything.
As you know this is my first inboard. Could you describe to me what the sending unit is?

ski_king
04-09-2008, 09:51 PM
......... We had to be towed in.
Did the engine die or did you shut it down to prevent further damage?

ski_king
04-09-2008, 09:52 PM
As you know this is my first inboard. Could you describe to me what the sending unit is?
It is a oil pressure sensor that is threaded into the block and sends a voltage signal to the pressure gauge.
http://skidim.com/images/R020001.jpg

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 09:54 PM
The valves were pecking singnaling to me that the lifters weren't getting any oil.

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 09:55 PM
Did the engine die or did you shut it down to prevent further damage?
I shut it off to prevent future damage.

ski_king
04-09-2008, 09:57 PM
Sounds like the pump to me.

Hopefully somebody who knows the inside of these engins better than me can help.

Good luck!

TMCNo1
04-09-2008, 09:59 PM
As you know this is my first inboard. Could you describe to me what the sending unit is?


Anybody? We need a picture! Will look something like this, the wire may have even come off, 33473I'm not sure on your Chev, but a bulb like fitting simular to pic, screwed into the intake or maybe on the side of the block with a wire clipped/screwed on it.

TMCNo1
04-09-2008, 10:04 PM
Sounds like the pump to me.

Hopefully somebody who knows the inside of these engins better than me can help.

Good luck!

Usually if the valves are clicking, the bomb is ticking!:o

03 35th Anniversary
04-09-2008, 10:08 PM
I assume you checked the oil??? Correct???

Before you pull the engine, put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on the engine (this will screw in where the sending unit is) to make sure it doesn't have oil pressure.

CRAIGTHEMAN
04-09-2008, 10:08 PM
looks like an excuse now to buy a brand new mastercraft

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 10:23 PM
I figure that it is the pump. I just wondered if anyone else's oil gause fluxuates while at a constant speed. Didn't know if that was normal or not. I know that it will move when you go from idle to a faster speed or from a faster speed back down to idle speed.

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 10:26 PM
Yea, I checked the oil. It looks fine. Not milky and I'm not loosing oil anywhere. It is definetly NOT the gauge. If you could here this thing run you would now that the top end is not getting any oil. It might not be the pump. If that bearing spun then it is cutting off the oil flow. I'm just going to have to pull it and see.

Hammer
04-09-2008, 10:26 PM
It shouldn't fluctuate at a constant RPM. Unless there's a problem.

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 10:28 PM
It shouldn't fluctuate at a constant RPM. Unless there's a problem.
Thanks Hammer. That's the question I needed answered.

jmac197
04-09-2008, 10:35 PM
What engine do have in it? I know my LTR with the cadillac ignition had a machined aluminum shaft where the distributor was and on the bottom was a brass gear that connected the cam to the oil pump. The teeth on the brass gear would wear out stopping the oil pump from turning.

Or the slot at the bottom of the distributor busted. There's a few more parts involved. These two are quick and easy solutions that don't require pulling the engine.

Just wishful thinking.......

Hammer
04-09-2008, 10:36 PM
There is a way to spin the oil pump without pulling the motor through the distributor hole. I have never don it myself but a lot of hot rodders do it to keep their motors lubed to prevent dry starts. You have to remove the distributor shaft and I beleive there is a special tool to stick in and spin. May have to pull a valve cover to see if it is pumping or not though.
PS I'm NOT a mechanic and I may not be even close!

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 10:37 PM
What engine do have in it? I know my LTR with the cadillac ignition had a machined aluminum shaft where the distributor was and on the bottom was a brass gear that connected the cam to the oil pump. The teeth on the brass gear would wear out stopping the oil pump from turning.

Or the slot at the bottom of the distributor busted. There's a few more parts involved. These two are quick and easy solutions that don't require pulling the engine.

Just wishful thinking.......
It has the Chevy 350 in it.

jmac197
04-09-2008, 10:38 PM
How many horse?

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 10:40 PM
How many horse?
It is 330hp

cbryan70
04-09-2008, 10:45 PM
I would say your engine is ****ED good luck sleeping tonight! :-) I would be tearing the thing apart as we speak searching everywhere for the problem

jmac197
04-09-2008, 10:47 PM
is that the carb, throttle body, Multi port fuel injection, or the LS1 corvette?

carb and throttle body look similar, kind more of a traditional engine with a carb on top, MPI won't have a carb on it, and I would imagine the corvette would have the big plastic cover with corbette blasted all over it.


I checked the inmar site and the manual but it doesn't say the horse for each engine option. Maybe one of the dealer guys can answer if your engine has the brass oil pump gear.

jmac197
04-09-2008, 10:51 PM
oh come on cbryan.....give her a glimmer of hope..... I totaly impressed with what she knows. More than some others I've seen on here, male or otherwise.

cbryan70
04-09-2008, 10:52 PM
sounds liek she knows more then me i was just messing around but i would be losing sleep over this no doubt i lost sleep over a steering cable!

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 10:52 PM
is that the carb, throttle body, Multi port fuel injection, or the LS1 corvette?

carb and throttle body look similar, kind more of a traditional engine with a carb on top, MPI won't have a carb on it, and I would imagine the corvette would have the big plastic cover with corbette blasted all over it.


I checked the inmar site and the manual but it doesn't say the horse for each engine option. Maybe one of the dealer guys can answer if your engine has the brass oil pump gear.
It is the multi port fuel injection. And I don't think it is ****ed. As soon as I heard it I shut it down and the machanic I took it too hooked it up to the water and as soon as he heard it he said CUT IT OFF. He said that I caught it in time and that I hadn't done any futhure damage. You don't hear any clunking noise in the bottom, you just hear the clicking of the lifters.

ski_king
04-09-2008, 10:55 PM
I am also very impressed with her knowledge of engines.

For what is is worth, I had a car that I was trying to drive into the ground and had the lifters dry many times and that thing still kept running, so all hope is not lost.
But still, it needs looked into very carefully.

I see you bought this boat just 5 weeks ago. Was it a dealer or private owner?

I would hate to think they would have sold you a boat that had a known problem without disclosing it to you.

KnoxX2
04-09-2008, 10:57 PM
Well I think it is a %50/%50 shot. Most of the time you will not see a oil pump just go bad........ My guess would be a spun bearing. It could be the pump shaft. or that the pick up on the pump came off!!!!!!!! I would drop the pan and take a look.

jmac197
04-09-2008, 10:58 PM
Well if he is worth his salt he will pull the distributor and see if he can turn the pump over with a screwdriver. We used to pre-lube new engines by spinning the pump with a long scredriver like attachment on a drill. We could get 20lbs out of it and push the oil up to the lifters.

Make sure he checks all that. If there is no distributor, make sure he checks the aluminum shaft that's holds that pump gear.

Best of luck and keep us up to date!

later
Jim

wakechic2786
04-09-2008, 10:59 PM
I am also very impressed with her knowledge of engines.

For what is is worth, I had a car that I was trying to drive into the ground and had the lifters dry many times and that thing still kept running, so all hope is not lost.
But still, it needs looked into very carefully.

I see you bought this boat just 5 weeks ago. Was it a dealer or private owner?

I would hate to think they would have sold you a boat that had a known problem without disclosing it to you.
I bought it from a private seller and he just replaced the block and manifolds three years ago due to it cracking upon moving here from Rhode Island. I am going to call him tomorrow and see if he got a warranty on the new one.

JLeuck64
04-09-2008, 11:41 PM
The oil pump is driven by the camshaft by some gears cut into the end of it. On older V8's that still have a distributor that gear will drive both (oil pump and distributor). On newer V8's the distributor is not used but there will be some sort of gear drive in it's place (to drive the oil pump). Yes, have the oil pressure checked with a mechanical gauge installed in place of the oil pressure gauge sending unit. If it is low then everything that is driven by the drive gear on the end of the camshaft needs to be looked at CLOSELY. Distributors have been known to fail (seize, or stop turning). Oil pumps can fail (seize, or stop turning). Oil pumps have a pressure regulator valve which can fail (stick open causing a loss of oil pressure). And the gear drive on distributorless engines have been known to fail (gear teeth wear). Most of these things can be checked before you would need to remove the engine from the boat. You should be able to spin these components freely by hand once removed. You should also be able to spin the oil pump by hand using a long flat blade screwdriver. If the distributor and/or drive gear looked OK and everything spins freely by hand, I would try to spin the oil pump with a drill as others have mentioned. (never can remember which way the oil pump turns during normal engine operation so I always grab a reversable drill. If you don't get any pressure reading turning it one direction then reverse the drill and try it again.) If you don't get any oil pressure at this point, then it would be time to pull the engine and take a good hard look at the oil pump and the pressure relief valve. Hopefully, you can find the problem before you get to this point. Or even finding a bad oil pump/pressure relief valve would be OK. If the oil pump passes a visual inspection after being removed from the engine, then it would be time to start looking at bearings...

SkiDog
04-10-2008, 07:25 AM
Damn chic, thats news that you didn't need right before CSM! You were smart to shut it down when you did! Where is JimN when you need him? He's the local engine nut round here! You might wanna send him a PM and ask his opinion, although the last post seems to know what he's talking about. Good luck!

Diesel
04-10-2008, 09:37 AM
What year is the engine? If it is the LTR you definately need to inspect the oil pump drive gear on the distributor before you go to the trouble of yanking the engine. IIRC MC issued a service bulletin on this issue and you can find it on MYMC's web page.

Your mechanic needs to do a bit of diagnosing before jumping to the conclusion that the oil pump is fried.

stuartmcnair
04-10-2008, 10:20 AM
I would suggest going ahead and letting a dealer handle this one...

pilot02
04-10-2008, 10:26 AM
Didn't you say you had an LT-1? If so, there was a recall on the cam gear I think.

Monte
04-10-2008, 10:36 AM
Joy I hate you are having the bad luck. Hopefully there is a quicker fix for it than pulling the entire engine. Good news is you got it shut down in time. Wayne does know his engines, he's been working on boats for 40+ years (Inboards,I/Os, and outboards). I hope it turns out to be a simple fix though. There are several very experienced mechanics on this board who hopefully can help you find that simple fix. JimN would be my first PM he has a wealth of knowledge, and he has been through some MC specific training I think (ICBW). Anyway good luck with it. I'll give you a call before our next session. Maybe a little boarding will ease your mind..

wakeX2wake
04-10-2008, 10:40 AM
JimN is the man... i'd be willing to bet if you called him on the phone he could talk you through fixing it... he's honestly THAT knowledgeable... not recomending that just saying

wakechic2786
04-10-2008, 09:36 PM
What year is the engine? If it is the LTR you definately need to inspect the oil pump drive gear on the distributor before you go to the trouble of yanking the engine. IIRC MC issued a service bulletin on this issue and you can find it on MYMC's web page.

Your mechanic needs to do a bit of diagnosing before jumping to the conclusion that the oil pump is fried.
It is a 1999. And it is the Multi port fuel injection. I am going to try everything that I can before pulling it out. Maybe I will get lucky!

wakechic2786
04-12-2008, 01:41 PM
Everyone's been asking what is in it. Well, here's a couple pics of it. I've only had time so far to take the cover off. I've been working 12hrs.
Chevy 350, 330hp muti-port fuel injection:
33568

33569

03 35th Anniversary
04-12-2008, 07:04 PM
Hmmmm....

That coil pack sure does make it hard to pull the distributor and run the oil pump with an electric drill and see if you have oil pressure......

jmac197
04-12-2008, 07:47 PM
Actually, and I'm sure I'll be corrected, the coil pack tells me that the engine does in fact have a distributorless ignition and has the aluminum shaft with the brass oil pump gear on it. The teeth on the gear should be flat, not concave. When my gear went the teeth were very concave and some were smoothed right over. You'll be able to tell.

There should be a silver disk on the rear of the top of the block held in by a single 1/2 or 9/16ths head bolt and retainer. Remove those and the shaft should just come straight out, it will probably require a little twisting to break it free.

The replacement gear is steel and will be a dark grey where the brass...well looks brass.

I hope that's what it is! $40 for a new gear and you're off to the races!

Jerseydave
04-12-2008, 09:06 PM
^^^jmac has the right idea...........take that plate off where the distributor would have been and check the oil pump drive shaft. Hopefully that's all you need (and an oil change, get rid of any metal chips in the oil)

SchuyHigh
04-12-2008, 10:27 PM
We hit the lake today and my oil pressure dropped to zero. The Valves started ticking signaling that the lifters weren't getting any oil. Had to be towed in. Took it by the shop where Monte has his boat and he said that either the oil pump is bad or it spun a bearing. The time before last my dad was driving it and he noticed that the oil pressure gauge kept fluxuating while at a costant speed. Could this be an indication that the pump was going bad. And I had been hearing a squeeking noise and thought that is was the belt. Could that have also been caused be the oil pump going bad? I am going to get it in the shop Saturday and start unhooking everything so we can hoist it out. I'm hoping it's the oil pump and not a spun bearing. Anyone experience this before?

Sorry, I'm still stuck on "We hit the lake today..." Did you say something was wrong with the boat. Just joking, good luck!

jimmer2880
04-13-2008, 12:35 AM
I'm just throwing this out there, as a "For what it's worth".

I've been running Mobil1 Full Synthetic in everything I own for a couple years now.

A couple weeks ago, I changed oil in my '88 Chevy Pickup (350) and '99 Suburban (350). A week later, both of them started having HORRIBLE lifter/valve noise. Since they both did it at almost exactly the same time, I was wondering if something was wrong with the oil. Went to Wally world & picked up some good old dino oil. Changed oil in the suburban first. Immediatly, problem went away. Truck also. Seems I got a bad batch of oil. I took back the other 2 - 5 quart jugs back to Walley World (I'm sure they just put them back on the shelves).

My point is, It's a very long shot. But, IF you run Mobile 1 Synthetic, you MAY want to change the oil first.

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 11:16 AM
I'm just throwing this out there, as a "For what it's worth".

I've been running Mobil1 Full Synthetic in everything I own for a couple years now.

A couple weeks ago, I changed oil in my '88 Chevy Pickup (350) and '99 Suburban (350). A week later, both of them started having HORRIBLE lifter/valve noise. Since they both did it at almost exactly the same time, I was wondering if something was wrong with the oil. Went to Wally world & picked up some good old dino oil. Changed oil in the suburban first. Immediatly, problem went away. Truck also. Seems I got a bad batch of oil. I took back the other 2 - 5 quart jugs back to Walley World (I'm sure they just put them back on the shelves).

My point is, It's a very long shot. But, IF you run Mobile 1 Synthetic, you MAY want to change the oil first.
If you look at the other post about the brass drive gear, you will see that I found the problem and it was a wore gear. Pulled it out, saw that it was wore down, rigged me up a tool which consist of a drill and a chissel, with the end grinded down to fit in the drill, turned the key to the on position, stuck the chissel down in the oil pump and let her go! Oil pressure immediatley jumped back up to where it is supposed to be! That made me very very happy! Now all I have to do is find the new part, install it, change the oil and filter, and she sould be good to go to CSM!

KnoxX2
04-13-2008, 11:27 AM
Just thought I would throw this out there........When you change the oil I would do a flush with new oil a few times to make sure you get any shavings in there out. Drain fill run, Drain fill run Hope every thing works out for you.

trickskier
04-13-2008, 11:32 AM
If you look at the other post about the brass drive gear, you will see that I found the problem and it was a wore gear. Pulled it out, saw that it was wore down, rigged me up a tool which consist of a drill and a chissel, with the end grinded down to fit in the drill, turned the key to the on position, stuck the chissel down in the oil pump and let her go! Oil pressure immediatley jumped back up to where it is supposed to be! That made me very very happy! Now all I have to do is find the new part, install it, change the oil and filter, and she sould be good to go to CSM!
WOW.................And you didn't use any DUCT TAPE???

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 11:34 AM
WOW.................And you didn't use any DUCT TAPE???
Smart A**!:uglyhamme No, I didn't use any duck tape! I only break it out for emergencies!

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 11:36 AM
WOW.................And you didn't use any DUCT TAPE???
And, Yes, I know it is DUCT and not DUCK but I just figured I'd spell it like everybody says it!

trickskier
04-13-2008, 11:42 AM
Smart A**!:uglyhamme No, I didn't use any duck tape! I only break it out for emergencies!

LOL............ 33605

Actually, I am impressed with your test process. Good luck on getting you boat running again. Hopefully the low oil pressure didn't damage any internal parts.

I would recommend taking the old oil filter and cutting it half to check for any metal.

Monte
04-13-2008, 11:45 AM
If you look at the other post about the brass drive gear, you will see that I found the problem and it was a wore gear. Pulled it out, saw that it was wore down, rigged me up a tool which consist of a drill and a chissel, with the end grinded down to fit in the drill, turned the key to the on position, stuck the chissel down in the oil pump and let her go! Oil pressure immediatley jumped back up to where it is supposed to be! That made me very very happy! Now all I have to do is find the new part, install it, change the oil and filter, and she sould be good to go to CSM!

That is great news!! Way to go and Congrats:woohoo: :banana: :headbang:

trickskier
04-13-2008, 11:48 AM
And, Yes, I know it is DUCT and not DUCK but I just figured I'd spell it like everybody says it!
Actually, there is a brand name Duck Tape
33606

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 11:48 AM
That is great news!! Way to go and Congrats:woohoo: :banana: :headbang:
Thanks! Now I'm just praying that there is a spot still open at Copperhead Campground!:confused:

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 11:49 AM
Actually, there is a brand name Duck Tape
33606
Well, I guess you learn something new everyday!8p

Monte
04-13-2008, 11:53 AM
Thanks! Now I'm just praying that there is a spot still open at Copperhead Campground!:confused:

Surely there will be. It is pretty big

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 12:01 PM
Does anyone know where I can get this gear at but in steel? I have looked on the web and only found the gear and shaft together for about 80 bucks and I found just the gear but it was the wrong year and didn't look like it would fit.
33609

trickskier
04-13-2008, 12:03 PM
Does anyone know where I can get this gear at but in steel? I have looked on the web and only found the gear and shaft together for about 80 bucks and I found just the gear but it was the wrong year and didn't look like it would fit.
33609
Check NAPA

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 12:05 PM
Check NAPA
I thought about them. I checked their website last night and didn't find one on there. I'm hoping the actual store might have one.

trickskier
04-13-2008, 12:09 PM
I thought about them. I checked their website last night and didn't find one on there. I'm hoping the actual store might have one.
Good Luck.............Don't forget to cut the old oil filter in half and look for metal.

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 12:15 PM
Good Luck.............Don't forget to cut the old oil filter in half and look for metal.
Yeah, I am. I'm hoping it picked up just about all of it. I can see where those brass gears where a bad idea. That one was only in that motor for about 90hrs. When the man who had it before me put the new block and manifolds in it, he did away with the distributor, added the coil packs, and installed the shaft with the brass oil pump drive gear. It went bad that quickly!

trickskier
04-13-2008, 12:19 PM
Yeah, I am. I'm hoping it picked up just about all of it. I can see where those brass gears where a bad idea. That one was only in that motor for about 90hrs. When the man who had it before me put the new block and manifolds in it, he did away with the distributor, added the coil packs, and installed the shaft with the brass oil pump drive gear. It went bad that quickly!

If all you find is brass that's good. However, if you find shinny silver specs that's usually from the lifters or the cam.

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 12:24 PM
If all you find is brass that's good. However, if you find shinny silver specs that's usually from the lifters or the cam.
Yeah, that's what I am hoping for. I really don't think that it had enough time to do any damage. I am very causious about that kind of stuff. As soon as I know that something isn't right I shut it off and don't start it back. Rather be safe than sorry! And those pieces of brass are as thin as hair from where it gradually shaved them off. So, maybe they weren't big enough to cause any damage. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

wakechic2786
04-13-2008, 12:59 PM
Yeah, I am. I'm hoping it picked up just about all of it. I can see where those brass gears where a bad idea. That one was only in that motor for about 90hrs. When the man who had it before me put the new block and manifolds in it, he did away with the distributor, added the coil packs, and installed the shaft with the brass oil pump drive gear. It went bad that quickly!
I take back what I said earlier. I just got off the phone with the original owner and he did NOT do away with the ditributor and add the coil packs. It came from the factory like that. So that gear had about 295 hours on it.

JimN
04-13-2008, 02:10 PM
The LTR and LT-1 never had a distributor in the boats. It's also not a matter of just installing coil packs- the ECM needs to know where the crank is in order to provide spark at the right time, which the distributor can only do by being set to correct base timing or the crank sensors do on the LT-1, or in some cases, a cam sensor. Also, brass or bronze is used because it is the weaker/softer metal and it's less of a problem that losing gear teeth on a cam. You generally won't see teeth rusted together when the metals are dissimilar, the way I have seen when a boat sat for three years.

88 PS190
04-13-2008, 02:26 PM
NAPA's normally have an excess of odd bits like that, not big ticket items that go on the website but they have them.

Good luck.

Rich-Atlanta
09-11-2008, 12:05 PM
I take back what I said earlier. I just got off the phone with the original owner and he did NOT do away with the ditributor and add the coil packs. It came from the factory like that. So that gear had about 295 hours on it.
Wakechic, I am having the same problems you have described. Did you find the gear, if so where? A part number would be great. Thanks, Rich

greenbrg
06-28-2013, 01:57 AM
Any word as to what it was? It does sound like it was a bearing problem, did you check the oil level each time you went out?

If you stave a motor of oil it will prematurely fail. The Oil pump runs off the crank, which has about 16 journal bearings, two per bearing location. I think an upper and lower. When you starve the bearings of oil you get ride of the oil film that makes them nice and slippery and the metal on metal rubs away the surface. This rubbing will wear down the journal bearing materiel (looks like a half moon of a thin metal) enough that most of your oil will pour out of one of your bearings, path of least resistance, and starve your other bearings which will cause them to wear down as well if you really run your motor hard and not shut it down quickly. Back to the oil pump, they do fail but mostly the pick up screen falls off and you can just add a quart more oil to make sure the pump is submerged in the oil bath, which can cause a oil mess if your crank seals are leaking in your bilge. If you have a borescope you can drain your oil and remove the remote oil line and scope your engine from the oil drain line to see what your oil screen pick up looks like. They have them online for $80-$180 for the home usage.

Well I hope this helps. I might be wrong with the number of bearings but you get the idea on how they work.

Jared

CantRepeat
06-28-2013, 04:55 AM
This thread is 5 years old and the problem was found, fixed and posted for others to learn from.