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View Full Version : Diesel vs. Gas.............PRICES!


Jerseydave
03-19-2008, 07:50 PM
Now it's getting out of hand! Diesel went from being $.40 higher than gasoline to more than $1.00 higher! (I saw $4.20 for diesel this week) This is wrong in so many ways!

Seems like the gas companies didn't make enough money this season (warm winter) and they're trying to rake in extra profits by fleecing us with high diesel and home heating oil prices!

Am I close or way off? We need a solution here. I run my truck for my business (diesel) and fuel costs are really high now ($300/week). No wonder the price of food and other goods are high, they have to be transported by trucks.

03 35th Anniversary
03-19-2008, 07:57 PM
It takes less steps to make Diesel also I think, alot less. I herd Diesel is pretty cheap to make. Not a 100% sure but pretty sure.

Compared to gas.

lanier92prostar
03-19-2008, 08:00 PM
Fuel prices are going to run our countries economy into the ground. To think we have access to all the oil we need in our own country, but prefer the listen to the enviromentalists about the dangers to drilling. I have a diesel also and can't believe how the prices have shot up. Maybe someone knows the answer to this question: If a gas station fills its tanks up with one price, how can the prices of fuel in that tank go up everyday? Sometimes as much as 50 cents or a dollar in a week when it is the same fuel coming out of the the same tank for the entire week? In my opinion, that is where we are being gouged.

TMCNo1
03-19-2008, 08:05 PM
The excuse we read here in the newspaper is, since the oil companies have to take the sulphur out of diesel fuel as ordered by the EPA, it costs more than gas to refine and process, I call, 32613

88 PS190
03-19-2008, 08:06 PM
its the hidden cost of oil. If you need to pay to fight to get the oil, its not 100$ a barrel, estimates of our involvement in the middle east have put the true price of oil well over 200$ a barrel for years. Not even with our currant war, but just defending our interests there.

We have 3 diesels in the driveway, diesel is running 4.30 here in chicago, regular gas more like 3.70. I expect the balance to shift, but there is a definate demand for the diesel, I hope to eventually have it below gasoline again. Until then cut your diesel with some veg oil to get further along ;)

H20skeefreek
03-19-2008, 09:33 PM
[quote=lanier92prostar]......a gas station fills its tanks up with one price, how can the prices of fuel in that tank go up everyday? Sometimes as much as 50 cents or a dollar in a week when it is the same fuel coming out of the the same tank for the entire week?quote]

I don't remember the principle behind it, but it's the same thing everywhere. When you buy something at a department store, it was paid for months ago, yet if the price of the raw material goes up, they'll raise the price. It's really a matter of speculation. If you get it wrong, you have to raise prices, and SOMETIMES lower them. But, I agree, we are getting gouged.

JohnE
03-19-2008, 10:00 PM
Fuel prices are going to run our countries economy into the ground. To think we have access to all the oil we need in our own country, but prefer the listen to the enviromentalists about the dangers to drilling. I have a diesel also and can't believe how the prices have shot up.

I've asking the same thing for a few years. Why is it OK to tap the oil anywhere else in the world, but don't mess with the environment in our own country? A bit hypocritical,no?

Maybe someone knows the answer to this question: If a gas station fills its tanks up with one price, how can the prices of fuel in that tank go up everyday? Sometimes as much as 50 cents or a dollar in a week when it is the same fuel coming out of the the same tank for the entire week? In my opinion, that is where we are being gouged.

I can't really explain it, but they basically have to do it this way because if they did it based on when they bought it and it went down, they'd never sell it.

ProTour X9
03-19-2008, 10:04 PM
I call, 32613


Yup it doesnt make any sense...

6ballsisall
03-19-2008, 10:08 PM
The demand is there as Diesel pickups and now cars have really caught on in the US over the past 5-7 years. Diesel is the cheap fuel to make, it's pure greed, plain and simple........

I looked at getting a diesel very recently and just couldn't justify it even though I really wanted it for towing purposes. For the upcharge of the engine and the price of diesel, I can buy a WHOLE lot of gasoline. Still wish I had a diesel though.....:(

stuartmcnair
03-19-2008, 10:23 PM
diesel is cheaper to refine but there is less of it produced so supply and demand are setting the price...what needs to happen is more passenger cars need to be made that run on diesel...supply would increase and price would decrease as more was put into production

a good friend of mine who owns an independent gas station told me the reaon they raise the prices is because they keep the price at what it costs to replace it...so the gas they have now might have been cheaper but he has to charge the going rate or he won't be able to replace it. He also told me he makes almost nothing on gas. He said the big profit for him was in fountain drinks.

Hammer
03-19-2008, 10:23 PM
I drive a diesel every day for my business. Took almost $150 to fill up today. Killing me! And how much did the oil companys make last year!?! We are just getting robbed!

Hammer
03-19-2008, 10:26 PM
He said the big profit for him was in fountain drinks.


Yea its big oil taking all the profits!:mad:

2000XPSD
03-19-2008, 11:06 PM
basically 2 reasons it went up:
1) US jacked the taxes on diesel fuel
2) with the low sulfur laws going thru they started jacking the price to pay for the additional processing needs

here's the dept of energy's explanation:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/index.html

stuartmcnair
03-19-2008, 11:11 PM
"The retail pump price reflects these costs and the profits (and sometimes losses) of the refiners, marketers, distributors, and retail station owners."

and sometimes losses??? I laughed so hard my spleen hurt...

Hrkdrivr
03-20-2008, 12:03 AM
"Big Oil's" profit margins are right around every other major industry's margins, about 8 - 11% IIRC. Their profits in GROSS dollars are huge because they deal in HUGE quantities of product. 8 to 11 percent of a really big number is a really big number. They're not gouging.

2000XPSD, thanks for the link. I too drive a diesel and this has been driving me nuts (no pun intended) because I always thought diesel was cheaper to refine; but now I know there's more to it, like almost $0.50 per gallon in taxes...ughhh.

123src
03-20-2008, 12:41 AM
I thought I heard that the flip in cost, with diesel now being more expensive than gas, is because of the whole Iraq issue. IIRC, the US military is using MUCH more diesel than before the war, hence increasing demand. Is that crazy talk? I have driven diesel's since the days when it was much more less expensive than gas. Now, I am not sure what my next truck will have under the hood... Although, I might miss the power:D

wiltok
03-20-2008, 06:54 AM
As it relates to taxes (for both gas and diesel), I assume they are based on a percentage bases - so as the prices go up we are paying more and more in taxes. I know the gov is hurting too (their own fault IMO), but they should lower the taxes on fuel.

sizzler
03-20-2008, 07:28 AM
our diesel used to be cheaper than petrol as well......our gov. then had a huge ad campaign to get us to drive the more envoironmentally-friendly diesel cars........when a lot of people changed their cars to diesel ones ,the price started to get dearer than petrol........strange ol' world eh??

Workin' 4 Toys
03-20-2008, 10:45 AM
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gaspump.gifhttp://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/dieselpump.gif

Get your facts straight.

Workin' 4 Toys
03-20-2008, 10:47 AM
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/grprrets.gifhttp://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/dlprrets.gif

flipper
03-20-2008, 10:54 AM
All I could find on diesel/gas prices is this...

32632

Workin' 4 Toys
03-20-2008, 11:01 AM
I know some very successful people in the oil industry, so it can't be all bad...:purplaugh



Edit....j/k

Datdude
03-20-2008, 11:08 AM
He also told me he makes almost nothing on gas


Please define "ALMOST NOTHING"....that seems to be a common response from station owners. I know the oil companies are making the most money.....but I have a hard time believing the stations are making "almost nothing" on $4.19 diesel fuel

Thanks

wakeX2wake
03-20-2008, 11:16 AM
well thing in my understanding is... profits are profits... the individuals at the top are going to make money in any industry b/c they're at the top and workers will make good money in any industry they work in b/c they are able to provide specialized labor... in the corporate finance world the profits are usually measured so that the company can expand and to R&D which in turn will make them able to find and produce fuels at a reasonable rate... i'm not happy about paying for the crao either but there's nothing we can do about it unless we all want to drive 30hp battery powered crap around (which i'll just have to eat the gas running through my 380hp Tundra)

Workin' 4 Toys
03-20-2008, 11:22 AM
I think the outrageous prices all started back when toyota started running cars in Nascar. I blame them. Boycott toyota.

SkiDog
03-20-2008, 11:31 AM
I've got new truck fever, and being used to having the power in my deisel, it's gonna be a hard pill to swallow if I gotta go back to a gas engine. And thats where I'm leaning.

Workin' 4 Toys
03-20-2008, 11:40 AM
As it was mentioned before...Something worthy of waiting for??

http://www.sae.org/automag/technewsletter/080108Tech/01.htm

stuartmcnair
03-20-2008, 01:26 PM
Please define "ALMOST NOTHING"....that seems to be a common response from station owners. I know the oil companies are making the most money.....but I have a hard time believing the stations are making "almost nothing" on $4.19 diesel fuel

Thanks

about 5 cents a gallon in his case...he is a small independent store with two pumps / four nozzles...the big sixteen pump stores make more due to volume.

he does, however, keep his beer cooler colder than any other in town

wakeX2wake
03-20-2008, 01:29 PM
about 5 cents a gallon in his case...he is a small independent store with two pumps / four nozzles...the big sixteen pump stores make more due to volume.

he does, however, keep his beer cooler colder than any other in town
now that's what i'm talking about

stuartmcnair
03-20-2008, 01:37 PM
Get your facts straight.


sorry, I was basing that on what a friend at a refinery told me...he said it's cheaper to refine diesel but without the demand it is not cost efficient to do it...cost would come down with more demand...

captain planet
03-20-2008, 05:37 PM
To think we have access to all the oil we need in our own country, but prefer the listen to the enviromentalists about the dangers to drilling.
I do have to refute this statement. I can only speculate that this comment is in reference to ANWR. It has been calculated that at our current rate of consumption, we would burn through all the oil that is in ANWR in 2 to 3 years. We simply consume too much oil in this country to rely on domestic supplies.

sdesmond
03-20-2008, 06:44 PM
I dont remember where I read it but I think I saw that oil companies only make 9 cents per gallon profit for gasoline. Arent the taxes for 1 gallon of gasoline around 40 cents? Seems like the governseament is making out in this situation. You cant believe anything from anybody anymore. We are at war for oil, plain and simple. The first thing that was done when going to the middle east was secure the oil fields. We need somebody in office who has no ties to oil and no desire to profit off of it.

lanier92prostar
03-20-2008, 06:54 PM
I do have to refute this statement. I can only speculate that this comment is in reference to ANWR. It has been calculated that at our current rate of consumption, we would burn through all the oil that is in ANWR in 2 to 3 years. We simply consume too much oil in this country to rely on domestic supplies.

My info is heresay based on a conversation with a friend in the oil business. The oil is not only in Alaska, but off the Atlantic coast in Florida. If we produced more domestic oil, wouldn't the price per barrell of imported oil go down? Supply and Demand? I agree that we use too much oil and as of right now, there is no incentive to pursue alternative sources other than consumer wanting lower prices. According to an article in one of my RV magazines, we have not slowed our rate of consumption, therefore the price keeps going up. Who knows where it will stop:confused:

lanier92prostar
03-20-2008, 06:56 PM
I dont remember where I read it but I think I saw that oil companies only make 9 cents per gallon profit for gasoline. Arent the taxes for 1 gallon of gasoline around 40 cents? Seems like the governseament is making out in this situation. You cant believe anything from anybody anymore. We are at war for oil, plain and simple. The first thing that was done when going to the middle east was secure the oil fields. We need somebody in office who has no ties to oil and no desire to profit off of it.

With state and Federal taxes being so high on fuel, there is no government incentive to help lower the prices as long as we are consuming the product. Instead of making 40 cents on a dollar a gallon of gas, the government is now making 1.60 give or take based on the state taxes.

Jerseydave
03-20-2008, 08:05 PM
Is the government taxing the crap out of home heating oil too? If not, then why is it over $3.50/gal? (and please don't tell me it cost more to refine home heating oil than gasoline)

Bottom line, big oil charges more because they CAN!

BTW, everything in this country gets transported by truck at least once. What would happen if the trucking industry stopped? :confused:

TMCNo1
03-20-2008, 10:01 PM
My info is heresay based on a conversation with a friend in the oil business. The oil is not only in Alaska, but off the Atlantic coast in Florida. If we produced more domestic oil, wouldn't the price per barrell of imported oil go down? Supply and Demand? I agree that we use too much oil and as of right now, there is no incentive to pursue alternative sources other than consumer wanting lower prices. According to an article in one of my RV magazines, we have not slowed our rate of consumption, therefore the price keeps going up. Who knows where it will stop:confused:


It has been published for decades that there are great amounts of oil off the coast of the Carolinas too, much like the Gulf of Mexico, but the Feds. won't allow the oil cos. to drill for oil there, and that tells me something.
Look how long it took to get the oil out of Alaska and there is even more up there, but.........................?

jeverett
03-21-2008, 12:44 AM
The problem is not so much the barrel of oil itself but the production. We haven't built a refinery here in the US in 30 years. I would challenge most people to try and make whatever they make on something 30 years old with only periodic updates. For those that use deisle fuel. The process for deisle is the same for home heating oil too and many people are still heating their homes in the winter with oil and that is creating a demand for that crude as well.

ProTour X9
03-21-2008, 09:28 AM
It has been published for decades that there are great amounts of oil off the coast of the Carolinas too, much like the Gulf of Mexico, but the Feds. won't allow the oil cos. to drill for oil there, and that tells me something.
Look how long it took to get the oil out of Alaska and there is even more up there, but.........................?

I was watching a show on TV that said that in parts of Canada theres dirt "fields" that are soaked with oil; enough oil to power the world for 100 years, but to remove the dirt would make gas cost around the same price as it is now.

captain planet
03-21-2008, 10:31 AM
I was watching a show on TV that said that in parts of Canada theres dirt "fields" that are soaked with oil; enough oil to power the world for 100 years, but to remove the dirt would make gas cost around the same price as it is now.
Here is an article relating to the oil sands in Canada. Problem with it is extracting the oil from the sand. Very costly.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2004-09-07-oil-sands_x.htm

Workin' 4 Toys
03-24-2008, 10:35 AM
I wasn't directing my comment towards you. Just a general statement.
sorry, I was basing that on what a friend at a refinery told me...he said it's cheaper to refine diesel but without the demand it is not cost efficient to do it...cost would come down with more demand...

Workin' 4 Toys
03-24-2008, 10:37 AM
Bottom line: The real problem is we ALL use too much fuel.
The problem is not so much the barrel of oil itself but the production. We haven't built a refinery here in the US in 30 years. I would challenge most people to try and make whatever they make on something 30 years old with only periodic updates. For those that use deisle fuel. The process for deisle is the same for home heating oil too and many people are still heating their homes in the winter with oil and that is creating a demand for that crude as well.

jimmer2880
03-24-2008, 08:36 PM
IIRC.... Of course, now, in addition to the demand for #2 heating oil (in recent years, the exact thing as diesel fuel), the extra refind process involved in creating ULSD (Ultra Low Sulpher Diesel) is what is spiking the recent prices through the roof for diesel

Maristar210
03-25-2008, 01:06 PM
It takes less steps to make Diesel also I think, alot less. I herd Diesel is pretty cheap to make. Not a 100% sure but pretty sure.

Compared to gas.

You "herd"

You mean like sheep farming? 8p