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View Full Version : 4 Polk Momo MMC650s on tower. Which amp?


cal2vin
03-14-2008, 11:28 PM
I have bought 2 sets of speaker cans from diywake and also two sets of polk momo mmc650s to put on my tower on my '96 prostar 205. I have a pioneer head unit powering all the cockpit speakers.

Which amp should I get to power my tower speakers?

How much power do I need to hear it over the boat?



Probably try to keep it under $200 for the amp if possible.
Also open to any and all suggestions or advice.

Thanks

erkoehler
03-15-2008, 12:27 AM
4 speakers in the boat and 4 on the tower? If so, I'd save up a bit more than $200 and get a better AMP, probably two AMPs would be best.

cal2vin
03-15-2008, 01:15 AM
Im only looking for an amp to power my tower speakers. The head unit is doing a fine job powering the 4 in the boat.

rrbooker
03-15-2008, 08:37 AM
I ran a JL 300/4 on those same speakers in my old boat! If you only have to speaker wires running up the tower, you can get away with a Jl300/2 and run it in a series!

75-100 watts to each speaker will make them scream! I would run anything less than 50 watts to each IMO!

rrbooker
03-15-2008, 08:42 AM
Im only looking for an amp to power my tower speakers. The head unit is doing a fine job powering the 4 in the boat.


What speakers are you running in the boat! You might be better off to look for a good 4 ch amp that is stable at 2ohms, and run boat and tower off that!

http://cgi.ebay.com/PDX-4-150-ALPINE-600-WATT-DIGITAL-4-CHANNEL-AMP-NEW_W0QQitemZ260219232059QQihZ016QQcategoryZ39739Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KICKER-ZX650-4-CAR-AUDIO-650-WATT-4CH-AMPLIFIER-AMP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38638QQihZ021QQitem Z310029703736QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


If you want a decent amp for under $200 go with the kicker amp and run everything off it! I guess it all depends on how much $ you want to spend!

Personally I would run at least to amps!

2RLAKE
03-15-2008, 08:46 AM
i just bought a rockford fosgate 850.4 from cartronixplus.com for $300 for my 4 tower speakers. they have a P450.2 for $150 ... that will give you 100w per speaker which is what you need

cal2vin
03-16-2008, 01:36 PM
A local store here has an alpine amp that is rated at 150x2 but he said it would give about 350 all together when he did the math on it. I cant think of the model name but its not a new one i think its last years. Anyway its $180. Does that sound decent?

JBaker
03-16-2008, 02:31 PM
I ran a JL 300/4 on those same speakers in my old boat! If you only have to speaker wires running up the tower, you can get away with a Jl300/2 and run it in a series!

75-100 watts to each speaker will make them scream! I would run anything less than 50 watts to each IMO!

Yikes:eek: Don't do that! Run them in parallel - running in series would you give you an 8 ohm load at the amp. The 300/2 would give you the performance as the 300/4 in this application and would be a great choice. However, I would also recommend the Clarion APX480M or APX280M if you want to save a little money. The Clarion's are also marine specific amp so they will probably hold up better if you are in a particularly humid or salty climate. The Clarion's just don't have quite the amount of adjustments and "tweekability" the JL's do.

JBaker
03-16-2008, 02:33 PM
A local store here has an alpine amp that is rated at 150x2 but he said it would give about 350 all together when he did the math on it. I cant think of the model name but its not a new one i think its last years. Anyway its $180. Does that sound decent?

This also sounds like a good setup. Good luck!

cal2vin
03-16-2008, 02:45 PM
Ya i think I might do the alpine or the clarion apx480. Would it be very hard to wire this all up myself and mount it and everything? I would mount it under the driver side dash. Ive heard things about where you ground it is crucial to eliminating engine feedback. I would have no clue where to ground on a boat. I usually just ground to the frame in my pick up. Any install suggestions. I want to wire the amp through one of my accessory switches so i can turn it on and off thanks

cal2vin
03-17-2008, 12:56 AM
Can anyone give me an idea as to where i should ground my amp.

Thanks

JBaker
03-17-2008, 01:23 AM
Can anyone give me an idea as to where i should ground my amp.

Thanks

Connect the ground to the negative terminal on the battery unless you have a distribution block. Make sure you use the same gauge wire you use for power.

Also why do you want to have a separate turn on for your amp? I would just connect the turn on to the head unit's amplifier turn on so that the amp powers on and off with the stereo.

Labatt911
03-17-2008, 05:25 AM
I had installed a switch on the amp turn on lead from the head unit to the amp. That way i was able to turn off the amp/tower speakers when i was just hanging out and relaxing. I think i got it at walmart for like 2 bucks in the auto section, it worked great.I also used the clarion 480 it was rated at the right output for the polks it sounded great.

rrbooker
03-17-2008, 08:46 AM
Yikes:eek: Don't do that! Run them in parallel - running in series would you give you an 8 ohm load at the amp. The 300/2 would give you the performance as the 300/4 in this application and would be a great choice. However, I would also recommend the Clarion APX480M or APX280M if you want to save a little money. The Clarion's are also marine specific amp so they will probably hold up better if you are in a particularly humid or salty climate. The Clarion's just don't have quite the amount of adjustments and "tweekability" the JL's do.

sorry i miss spoke! I was alittle high this weekend after knee surgery!!!

JBaker
03-17-2008, 03:10 PM
I had installed a switch on the amp turn on lead from the head unit to the amp. That way i was able to turn off the amp/tower speakers when i was just hanging out and relaxing. I think i got it at walmart for like 2 bucks in the auto section, it worked great.I also used the clarion 480 it was rated at the right output for the polks it sounded great.

If you ever forgot to flick that switch off, you would kill the battery in no time. I'd rather just use the fader and fade out of the tower assuming you have at least a 4-channel out head unit.

Then again, I guess I idiot proof it for a reason...:cool:

wakeX2wake
03-17-2008, 04:43 PM
If you ever forgot to flick that switch off, you would kill the battery in no time. I'd rather just use the fader and fade out of the tower assuming you have at least a 4-channel out head unit.

Then again, I guess I idiot proof it for a reason...:cool:

I did that to a friend's car and he called me the next day to come jump him off... facotry is set up to fade on and off tower and it's not inconvenient at all... they're the experts for a reason

cal2vin
03-17-2008, 09:14 PM
If you ever forgot to flick that switch off, you would kill the battery in no time. I'd rather just use the fader and fade out of the tower assuming you have at least a 4-channel out head unit.

Then again, I guess I idiot proof it for a reason...:cool:
What if I just ran the turn on lead from the head unit through the accessory switch then the head unit has to be on to turn the amp on... Right?

JBaker
03-17-2008, 09:24 PM
What if I just ran the turn on lead from the head unit through the accessory switch then the head unit has to be on to turn the amp on... Right?

Yep, I think that would do it. That's not a terrible idea actually if you like to float and listen to only the boat speakers with the motor off.

CHaus21
03-17-2008, 10:28 PM
Stick w/ Polk for the amp. MOMO 1000.4 will work great. I had that setup on my old boat and it worked great.

JBaker
03-18-2008, 03:09 AM
Stick w/ Polk for the amp. MOMO 1000.4 will work great. I had that setup on my old boat and it worked great.
Ummmm.... To the best of my knowledge Polk doesn't and has never made a MOMO 1000.4. Are you referring to the C400.4? I believe that is the only 4 channel they have ever made.

cal2vin
03-18-2008, 07:29 PM
I went to the local audio place to find the name of the alpine amp I was talking about. It is an Alpine MRV-T320 for 179.99. Its not rated at much but they told me there that it would probably give me around 350 watts. Sound good?

cal2vin
03-18-2008, 07:29 PM
I went to the local audio place to find the name of the alpine amp I was talking about. It is an Alpine MRV-T320 for 179.99. Its not rated at much but they told me there that it would probably give me around 350 watts. Sound good?

CHaus21
03-18-2008, 08:02 PM
Ummmm.... To the best of my knowledge Polk doesn't and has never made a MOMO 1000.4. Are you referring to the C400.4? I believe that is the only 4 channel they have ever made.


You're right - I'm sorry - It was a 400.4. I had it bridged into 2 channels running 2 MOMO 6x9's.

swatguy
03-19-2008, 12:03 AM
KIcker is a solid anmp for a great pricpoint and I would also check out Hifonics......Made by the same company that makes MB Quart speakers some of the best speakers for the $$ out there if you ask me. Hifonics is a great pricepoint amp with great power ratings. Couple of my buds benched them and all of them put out over the rated wattage.
Same goes for the Kicker stuff as well. IF you want to spend around 200 those would be the 2 companies I would look at. Check out ebay.

If you want some top of the lline gear then the JL slash series and the Alpine PDX line is the way to go if you ask me, but with that comes $$$.

I did some research a while back and came to this conclusion after talking with a ton of "stereo" people. Because the speakers are in an open air enviornment and they are gonna be pushing at their peak especially being cranked on the tower the amps will be running hotter than in a car and risk overheating. If you are running 4 tower speakers I would go with a 4 channel amp.....Again that is just me.......You can run them off a 2 channel for sure, but I just like the idea of a 4 channel if you have 4 speakers......again millinos of people run 2 channels to 4 speakers and have zero problems, but I just like 1 channel per speaker if I can get away with it. Like say a ZX350.2 would be my suggestion in the 2 channel line.....maybe even up to the zx450.2 since you will def be pushing 4 of those.

That Alpine amp would be a total waste of cash. IT is not going to even come close to being able to push 2 of those speakers let alone 4. the key spec you want to look at is the continuous power rating at 4ohms NOT THE MAX and also if the amp is 2 ohm stable. They guy at the stereo shop is giving you very bad info IMO.

Here would be my suggestions
Kicker zx350.2
Kicker ZX450.2
Kicker ZX 650.4
*****Hifonics Zues ZXI6406 ******** would be my #1 reccomendation
Hifonics Zues ZXI6006f you wanted a 2 channel

With all that said I am running Kicker amps in my boat which is getting a stereo overhaul at the moment. I would have ran Hifonics amps, but the didn't have a 5 channel. Space was at a permium so wanted to keep the amp rack modifications to a minimum so went with a 2 amp setup instead of a 3 ike my original plan. Also figured I save some cash. I also wanted to keep all my amps uniform(just me) and went the a Kicker ZX700.5 to run my sub and my 4 polk mmc650's in the cabin and a kicker ZX350.2 for my MB Quart tower speakers, but I am only running 2. In the event I want to add 2 more I still have the juice with the ZX350.2, but really don't have any plans to add 2 more at the moment.

You have some great speakers and you don't want to waste them by running a crappy amp. Give them the power they need otherwise they will sound like crap in the end. With such a top notch speaker you def want a middle/higher quality amp to push you high quality speakers.

JBaker
03-19-2008, 12:37 AM
I wouldn't get too caught up with brands as long as you are staying away from crap. You'll know crap when you see it.

Swatguy hit the nail on the head when it comes to viewing power ratings.

Specifically for your application, if you go with a 4 channel amp, you need to compare 4 ohm RMS power ratings. And make sure you are comparing power output at same input voltage levels. Most manufacturers post the CEA 14.4v rating, but few, like JL, use a more realistic 12.5v. If you look close you should be able to find a 14.4 or 14.5v rating on any decent amp. Also look at THD (total harmonic distortion) just encase anyone is trying to get away with absurdly high distortion (I don't want to get in a brand bashing contest, but Sony is notorious for this.)

If you instead go for a 2 channel amp (which I would not recommend) then compare 2 ohm RMS power ratings. Note that you need to divide the 2 ohm rating by 2 to know how much power you will get to each speaker.

swatguy
03-19-2008, 12:48 AM
Thanks for the additions JBakes......forgot to go int detail about the power ratings for the 2 vs 4 channel. Very good point.



I would also like to add this that maybe you haven't thought about. Again you did buy some decent tower speakers in the Polks so I think you want the best system but not to break the bank. MY question/observation you may not have thought about is are the people in the boat going to be annoyed with the loudness of the cabin speakers when you have the stereo cranked? I can tell you from my experiences people can get annoyed quickly. Especially myself being the boat owner...... after taking a huge digger the last thing I want to do is have my eardrums blasted by the cabin speakers when the bells and stars are still ringing and twinkling......... Your cabin speakers Will be cranking just like the tower speakers will be only they will be in everyones ears inside the cabin. I would seriously give some thought about adding a second amp to power the cabin speakers so you can use the fade feature on your stereo head unit to adjust the cabin level. This is the most cost efficient way to do this, but there are a ton of different options that you can go on that route as well.

With the second amp and fade feature available you can now keep the cabin speakers at a decent level and scream the tower speakers all you want keeping everyone happy :) Just something to think about that some people tend to overlook til all is said and done. Better to exhaust every option at the beginning than rip it out and re wire stuff over and over if you ask me :)

rspiecha
03-19-2008, 02:27 AM
New for 2008, JL Audio is posting wattage on amps by the higher 14.4 volt input, so all there amps have a different name to correspond with the higher rated wattage output. http://marine.jlaudio.com/jlaudio_pages.php?page_id=59

JBaker
03-19-2008, 04:30 AM
New for 2008, JL Audio is posting wattage on amps by the higher 14.4 volt input, so all there amps have a different name to correspond with the higher rated wattage output. http://marine.jlaudio.com/jlaudio_pages.php?page_id=59

Good info - and probably a good move on JL's part. I have known more than one guy who went to another brand because he was ummm... "not educated" enough to realize the apples to oranges comparison. I have also heard stories of guys selling against JL on this point - exploiting their customers' ignorance.

Let's be honest, a lot of boat owners who upgrade their stereos have little or no knowledge of aftermarket car audio. Keeping it simple is probably not going to hurt you.

JBaker
03-19-2008, 04:35 AM
And speaking of JL, I am stoked for the HD600.4

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/jlaudio_pages.php?page_id=239

This bad boy is going to the ultimate in an amp for 4 tower speakers. It seems like guys just can't get enough power up there and this puppy will give you 150 x 4 at 4 ohms, all the way down to 11.0v!! Unreal.

cal2vin
03-20-2008, 12:24 AM
Wow thanks for all the info. The Kicker ZX450.2 looks awesome and decent price too. Also the Kicker MX350.4 is looking decent too. I like it because it is actually marine. Is it that necessary to used a marine amp? Also, is there anyway I could wire up my system using only one amp and allow me to play through the tower speakers only.

swatguy
03-20-2008, 12:42 AM
Marine amps are not neccessary. Many people run regular amps simply due to the fact there were very limited options on the marine versions til recently. Though even now marinized versions of amps are still very low.

In most scenarios the amps are tucked away and will see very little moisture. So corrossion isn't a huge issue which is really what the marinized versions are protecting against along with water retlated shortages inside. The older marinized products used to sacrifice quality to have those features, but recent year products have overcome that in most respects.

AS to running the boat and tower speakers off one amp and having a fade feature available it can be done, but I would highly advise against it. Again just my opinion, but by the time you add the extra cost of upgrading a higher amp you could have just gotten a second one. Would rather have 2 amps running average than pushing 1 amp hard. Again just my personal taste.

That is the thing about stereo configs.....there are just so many ways to run things it can go forever. some good, some def bad, and others just get the job done. You can always ghetto rig something and get it to work for a bit, but it's the long run you want to be worried about. You want you stuff to last as long as possible.

cal2vin
03-20-2008, 12:53 AM
Ya I def want my stuff to last. I think I have decided on the Kicker ZX450.2. Just gun connected two speakers to each channel giving a 2 ohm load to each channel. I am looking for a cheap but decent 4 gauge install kit but Im not having a lot of luck. Any suggestions?

cal2vin
03-20-2008, 08:26 AM
I got a couple of questions for the install:

1. Would it be better to install the amp in the side with the battery and have to run aproximately 20 ft of rca or mount on the head unit (drivers) side and run about 20 feet of power and ground wires.

2. Where should I mount, wall closest to the cabin or the one closest to the outside of the boat?

3. It is ok to run my cabin speakers through the head units power and just connect this amp to the head unit's rca's without having to change anything? Just hook up the rca's

OhioProstar
03-20-2008, 08:59 AM
1. The shorter power run will keep your cable costs down. Especially true if you are planning to run 4AWG or larger, same with the ground cable. It will also give you more power as you lose voltage due to resistance over a long cable run.

2. It is easier to mount to the inside wall since you can drill into it with screws. You can fabricate a mount that attaches to the floor if you want to mount to the outside wall.

3. The power from a head unit will be limited 15-25watts.

OhioProstar
03-20-2008, 09:00 AM
dup....d@mn double clicking.

cal2vin
03-20-2008, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the reply. How long of screws do you think I will need to use in order not to accidentally screw into the aisle. Also Do you think it would be better to do the floor mount or side wall? As for #3 My cabin speakers are loud enough as is. Can I just hook up the rcas from the amp to the head unit and be done with it?

swatguy
03-20-2008, 02:38 PM
Depending on the boat and year it should have a pre set amp rack on the side wall. Easiest way to check is to just peel back some of the carpet on the wall and then glue it back in place if you want to be sure, but you should be able to see it through the carpet. I would highly NOT recommend the floor mounting. Side wall for sure. I agree with what was said.......Keep the Power wires on the short side that is what starts to mess with your current and voltage when it gets to long. The Longer RCA wil be ok. Just make sure to get a decent set of what they call twisted ones.


And again agree you can run the cabins off the head unit, but they won't get much juice. So that depends on what speakers you have that are running off the head unit. A lot of high end speakers require more juice than the avg head unit can supply otherwise they sound like crap.


As to the rca's...yup from head unit to the amp...Piece of cake. Just try and keep the RCA's away from power cables if you can....if you have to cross a power supply cross it as close to 90degrees as possible

mah2496
03-21-2008, 11:08 AM
Polk Momo 10" vs. Kicker L5 10". Which one would you guys prefer?

rspiecha
03-21-2008, 12:01 PM
The Streetwires ZN series RCA cables work great for a 16ft run on my boat. I have the ZN9 wires and parallel power leads for about 1 ft going up to the amp with no noise being introduced. The wires were pricey at $90 for the 16.7 ft with 4 RCA connectors for fading from the head unit.

After these pictures, I replaced the JL M2150 with a JL M4300 to power 4 tower speakers. The JL M6450 powers the 4 JL cabin speakers and JL 10inch sub.

Maristar 210 VRS AMP Pictures (http://www.memphiszclub.com/graphics/Maristar%20210%20VRS/stereo/)

Rob

cal2vin
03-21-2008, 12:03 PM
Depending on the boat and year it should have a pre set amp rack on the side wall. Easiest way to check is to just peel back some of the carpet on the wall and then glue it back in place if you want to be sure, but you should be able to see it through the carpet. I would highly NOT recommend the floor mounting. Side wall for sure. I agree with what was said.......Keep the Power wires on the short side that is what starts to mess with your current and voltage when it gets to long. The Longer RCA wil be ok. Just make sure to get a decent set of what they call twisted ones.


And again agree you can run the cabins off the head unit, but they won't get much juice. So that depends on what speakers you have that are running off the head unit. A lot of high end speakers require more juice than the avg head unit can supply otherwise they sound like crap.


As to the rca's...yup from head unit to the amp...Piece of cake. Just try and keep the RCA's away from power cables if you can....if you have to cross a power supply cross it as close to 90degrees as possible
My boat is a 1996 Mastercraft so I doubt it has any amp mounts. but Just screwing into the fiberglass wall should be ok right?

rspiecha
03-21-2008, 12:24 PM
I would put a piece of marine grade plywood, or if you can find it, the same type of high density plastic board they use in the new boats up against the fiber glass wall. Secure it with metal L brackets to the floor and glue it at the top. Then mount the amps to that. Fiber glass is pain to mount stuff to it.

Rob

swatguy
03-21-2008, 04:12 PM
I wouldn't screw directly into the fiiberglass....Asking for trouble. Like RS said cheapest is marine grade plywood. The best thing would be stuff called starboard(avail for sure at west marine, but stuff isn't cheap very very pricywhen compared to plywood). Its a totally waterproof plastic hybrid something. Expensive but will never rot or warp. Since it is a 96 you should be able to peel the carpet back pretty easily, Slap the amp rack/plywood on there and do what RS said L bolts at the bottom and glue the back to the fiberglass. MAke sure to fill as much of the wall as you can with the rack just in case you want to add amps later. Would hate to have to redo it all over to add an amp. Also you want to get say 2 pieces of a 2/4 or something that tyou can wedge against the rack and the gunwale for a couple of hours to keep pressure on the amp rack you just glued to make sure it gets a good seal and wont rattle loose. Then just pull the carpet back over and glue it back in place. Won't even know its behind there.


A good middle of the road RCA that a ton of guys have had good experiences with is Knuconcepts......not the highest line cable but it gets the job done. The ol ebay has em in a ton of different lengths. But any home theater or car audio store should have some decent middle of the road twisted Rca's...just stay away from the Radio Shack stuff....most of their cables are garbage.
Your amp if yo go with Kicker will come with the mounting screws so don't sweat em.

Best way to decide on how to cut your board is do a dry run with carboard to get the exact shape you want and then trace that to wood. Viola....done. The carboard is just easier to manipulate to get in there and trace a design.

cal2vin
03-22-2008, 02:14 AM
Damn I was hoping I wasn't going to have to do anything like that. IS it completely necessary for just a middle weight amp. Actually the weight of a kicker 450.2

swatguy
03-22-2008, 11:12 AM
DEpending on which model boat you have.....if it has an open bow you could try and mount it to the back of the bow seat in the passenger compartment. That would be a decent place. Or since your stereo is on the driver side maybe mount it to the back or front of the kick plate. The problem with those areas is that it will be hard to adjust the amp after it is installed. Just some other ideas, but the amp rack is easier than it sounds. Piee of cake really the longets part is waiting for the glue to dry.

swatguy
03-22-2008, 11:12 AM
sorry double post

cal2vin
03-22-2008, 02:58 PM
I just tryed to mount my polk momo mmc650's in the speaker cans i bought from diywake.com. I think the speakers are smaller than 6 1/2 inch mounting size because I have seen other speakers work with these cans. Diywake.com said that polk has shrunk the size of this speaker now. they said they used to use this speaker. I need a shim of some sort now to even make them fit.

swatguy
03-22-2008, 11:27 PM
The polks should have came with an adapter to fit the bigger hole cutout. Many have used these on these cans. I am running MB Quarts NKD 116's in my DIY Wake V2 cans. Fit perfectly
I was going to run the Polk DB651's bet decided to go with MB for a little more money and also the cans were originally designed for MB Quart speakers, but again tons of peopel have used the polks in these cans they did however say the used the adapter.


Calvin check you PM

cal2vin
03-23-2008, 11:44 AM
I have put pictures in my gallery of what I am talking about with my speaker cans not fitting. Anyone please take a look and give me some thoughts or suggestions. Also how should I mount the crossover into the can. Velcro?????

cal2vin
03-24-2008, 10:33 AM
Anyone for the ideas on how to mount crossover???

redx10
03-24-2008, 11:53 AM
Run a ground wire and a power wire directly to the terminals on your battery, then run your amp off/on wire (usually yellow) to your accessory switch.