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gwpowell
03-10-2008, 05:56 AM
Is anyone aware of the new rubber flap exhaust tips being fitted to the new 08 MC's. I have just received my new X7 and it is significantly noisier than the 07 exhaust tips which had fixed chrome covers.

Why did MC make this change? Or is it something in the exhaust itself that has been modified?

You yanks may not yet be aware of this change being winter and all. Down here in sunny Queensland Australia we are carving it up. The temp is 75 - 82 degrees every day and the water is 73 degrees and glassy.:)

H20BOY
03-10-2008, 10:40 AM
My dealer told me th 07 chrome exhaust tips had problems with the welds coming apart so they went back to the flap design.

Ole Miss Rebels
03-10-2008, 10:51 AM
also. on some particular models (08 xstar), the drop-down platform was hitting the tips. i thought some 08 boats still had the chrome tips. my 08 xstar has the flaps. i have the 8.1 with no silent master mufler and it is really noisy behind the boat. inside the boat it is fairly loud, too. but behind it, whoa baby.

coz
03-10-2008, 11:16 AM
Is anyone aware of the new rubber flap exhaust tips being fitted to the new 08 MC's. I have just received my new X7 and it is significantly noisier than the 07 exhaust tips which had fixed chrome covers.

Why did MC make this change? Or is it something in the exhaust itself that has been modified?

You yanks may not yet be aware of this change being winter and all. Down here in sunny Queensland Australia we are carving it up. The temp is 75 - 82 degrees every day and the water is 73 degrees and glassy.:)


Most the yanks around are still using snow scrapers to see out the window and along comes a sun tanned aussie with warm weather and noisy exhaust, sounds like you got major problems down in OZ mate!:rolleyes:
Kid'n!, I wish I was down under carving it up in 73 degree glass, Lucky!:D

kev88
03-10-2008, 11:17 AM
My 2008 X-2 has chrome.

MYMC
03-10-2008, 11:36 AM
Both a "tip" version and a "flap" versioin are used, it depends on clearance with the folding platform. The tip (both designs) are also supposed to act as the muffler; however, it is louder than the old Silent Master. The tips (again both versions) have some other "issues" IMHO.

The good news is you can order boats now with what is called the "Silent Master" option. In this case you will get the old Silent Master muffler system and the tips will have no baffels or guts inside them...so you get the look in a quieter package.

moleson10
03-10-2008, 03:23 PM
Both a "tip" version and a "flap" versioin are used, it depends on clearance with the folding platform. The tip (both designs) are also supposed to act as the muffler; however, it is louder than the old Silent Master. The tips (again both versions) have some other "issues" IMHO.

The good news is you can order boats now with what is called the "Silent Master" option. In this case you will get the old Silent Master muffler system and the tips will have no baffels or guts inside them...so you get the look in a quieter package.

Mike,

This is news to me. I thought all the boats had a muffler system independant of the tips. What would have been installed on my 06 197? It seems very quiet to me, both in the boat and behind. I'm suprised any manufacturer would make a change that would make a new boat louder.

Thx

MYMC
03-10-2008, 03:50 PM
Mike,

This is news to me. I thought all the boats had a muffler system independant of the tips. What would have been installed on my 06 197? It seems very quiet to me, both in the boat and behind. I'm suprised any manufacturer would make a change that would make a new boat louder.

Thx
The muffler has a baffle built into the tip...this started in 2007. I don’t think the noise level increase was intentional, instead I believe cost as well as product differentiation was the driving force; however, it was soon discovered that they are indeed louder.

Sodar
03-10-2008, 03:53 PM
Mike, what type of performance implications would there be to install mufflers in conjunction with the '07 SS buffled tips? Just thinking out loud for the sake of my neighbors...

gwpowell
03-10-2008, 05:35 PM
Thank you all. It seems MC have made a change for the worse without telling us. This is very annoying as I ski in a noise sensitive area. The "Silent Master" exhaust option has only been made made available after I purchased the boat. I thought (as there was no option available at the time) these were standard on all boats. I now have the added expense of retro fitting.

Thanks Sodar, I also would like to know of any performance implications in the different options. especially fitting the "Silent Master" to the existing baffled tips.

gwpowell
03-10-2008, 05:48 PM
:) Here is a shot I just took from my back deck.

32280

32281

SDAhockey21
03-10-2008, 06:17 PM
Sweet Jesus :eek:

André
03-10-2008, 06:58 PM
:) Here is a shot I just took from my back deck.

32280

32281
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaa baby!:)
Nice set up!

erkoehler
03-10-2008, 08:06 PM
:) Here is a shot I just took from my back deck.

32280

32281


Off my back deck are snow piles, ice, and snow falling from the sky at 20 degrees!

erkoehler
03-10-2008, 08:06 PM
Mike, what type of performance implications would there be to install mufflers in conjunction with the '07 SS buffled tips? Just thinking out loud for the sake of my neighbors...


Get the star gazer first :)

vision
03-10-2008, 08:07 PM
The noise behind my 08 X-star with a MCX and the stock catalytic converter muffler and no Silent Master is quite a bit louder than my 05 X2 with an MCX with a Silent Master. The 08 has an annoying higher pitch as well. Fresh Air Exhaust on the way.

I assumed the muffler change was due to the high temperature needs of the CAT. There was no Silent Master option when I order my 08 in May 07.

erkoehler
03-10-2008, 08:09 PM
The noise behind my 08 X-star with a MCX and the stock catalytic converter muffler and no Silent Master is quite a bit louder than my 05 X2 with an MCX with a Silent Master. The 08 has an annoying higher pitch as well. Fresh Air Exhaust on the way.

I assumed the muffler change was due to the high temperature needs of the CAT. There was no Silent Master option when I order my 08 in May 07.


I just started noticing the silent master option on the MC ordering site in the last 3-4 months maybe....?

Eagle Lake Rebel
03-10-2008, 08:50 PM
One good thing about not having the Silent Master is you can actually change the impeller without using every cuss word in the book. I'll take the extra noise any day.

LKNMC
03-10-2008, 08:53 PM
My 08 X-15 has the chrome tips

kev88
03-10-2008, 10:23 PM
Both a "tip" version and a "flap" versioin are used, it depends on clearance with the folding platform. The tip (both designs) are also supposed to act as the muffler; however, it is louder than the old Silent Master. The tips (again both versions) have some other "issues" IMHO.

The good news is you can order boats now with what is called the "Silent Master" option. In this case you will get the old Silent Master muffler system and the tips will have no baffels or guts inside them...so you get the look in a quieter package.

Mike:

Is there anything specifically I should be watching for with the chrome tips....while my boat is still under warranty??

Thanks

fintek9
03-10-2008, 10:53 PM
:) Here is a shot I just took from my back deck.

32280

32281I don't see no dock, I don't see no boat, And why no drinks on that table???? calling your bluff!..LOL

erkoehler
03-10-2008, 10:54 PM
Mike:

Is there anything specifically I should be watching for with the chrome tips....while my boat is still under warranty??

Thanks

Make sure that you don't loose the inside baffle....on an 08, there shouldn't be an issue.

mhanksruns
03-10-2008, 11:28 PM
Just had a 2007 PS TT and the new 2008 PS TT on the lake at the same time, and the 2008 was significantly louder. Looks like they changed the tips to allow for the drop down step.

duckguy
03-11-2008, 12:07 AM
I personally am looking forward to the whole thing if it sounds throaty.

gwpowell
03-11-2008, 05:04 AM
I don't see no dock, I don't see no boat, And why no drinks on that table???? calling your bluff!..LOL
The dock is being made, the boat is in the garage and the drinks are in the fridge. I took the shots at 7am Tuesday morning, it was a little early for a drink and my ski mates were all at work.

MYMC
03-11-2008, 10:33 AM
Mike, what type of performance implications would there be to install mufflers in conjunction with the '07 SS buffled tips? Just thinking out loud for the sake of my neighbors...
Here is what I can tell you...on a 2007 if you "gut" the tips and install the old "Silent Master" mufflers (pair) the boat will be quieter and have more power...we have done this several times and in certain models the change is so great we had to reprop the boat due to it running agains the rev-limiter at WOT.

Here is a picture of my radar gun in a 2007 X-Star with L-18 using "my" exhaust system and a 13.7x17.5 prop, 3000 lbs ballast...know any others that run this hard? BTW this is the pink boat.

MYMC
03-11-2008, 10:35 AM
Here is the what Perfect Pass had to say...note RPM.

Sodar
03-11-2008, 10:45 AM
Whoa! Obviously you will never see that much of a gain from a 197 because it has so much more wetted surface, but a 48 mph X-star is pretty impressive!

Two more questions... does the EXT/CAT exhaust have any performance-sucking properties? When I spoke to Eric @ OJ and Bill @ ACME, they said that boats will the CAT exhaust had a fluctuation of as much as 800rpm with identical boats, props and engines. Can you elaborate?

Second, what does the "MYMC exhaust system" cost (parts only)? :D

MYMC
03-11-2008, 10:56 AM
Whoa! Obviously you will never see that much of a gain from a 197 because it has so much more wetted surface, but a 48 mph X-star is pretty impressive!

Two more questions... does the EXT/CAT exhaust have any performance-sucking properties? When I spoke to Eric @ OJ and Bill @ ACME, they said that boats will the CAT exhaust had a fluctuation of as much as 800rpm with identical boats, props and engines. Can you elaborate?

Second, what does the "MYMC exhaust system" cost (parts only)? :D
Are you saying a PS197 has more wetted surface than a ballasted X-Star? NO WAY...

Anyway...in my testing (including testing engine alone on a SuperFlow dyno) the MCX with cats has proven to be closer to advertised capability than the previous MCX's. With the stringent emissions test I cannot believe that 800rpm anomalies would be able to get certification in the "people’s republic of California". If there is any 800 RPM differences it would have to be due to production tolerances in boat builds.

Parts for my exhaust system are simple…cut the baffle out of the tips (all of it) and add two of these: http://mymastercraft.com/search_results.cfm?search_text=252033

Sodar
03-11-2008, 11:11 AM
Are you saying a PS197 has more wetted surface than a ballasted X-Star? NO WAY...

Anyway...in my testing (including testing engine alone on a SuperFlow dyno) the MCX with cats has proven to be closer to advertised capability than the previous MCX's. With the stringent emissions test I cannot believe that 800rpm anomalies would be able to get certification in the "people’s republic of California". If there is any 800 RPM differences it would have to be due to production tolerances in boat builds.

Parts for my exhaust system are simple…cut the baffle out of the tips (all of it) and add two of these: http://mymastercraft.com/search_results.cfm?search_text=252033

I did not read that it was ballasted, but none the less, I would think that an X-star at 50 mph would ride up much higher than a 197. As for wetted surface, I thought that all the larger boats rode up on a pad at speed?

Thats good to here about the rpm ranges. Basically what the "prop guys" were saying is that some boat would spin up to 5000rpm WOT with a prop, while others would only go into the 4500 rpm range WOT with the same setup.

MYMC
03-11-2008, 11:55 AM
I did not read that it was ballasted, but none the less, I would think that an X-star at 50 mph would ride up much higher than a 197. As for wetted surface, I thought that all the larger boats rode up on a pad at speed?

Thats good to here about the rpm ranges. Basically what the "prop guys" were saying is that some boat would spin up to 5000rpm WOT with a prop, while others would only go into the 4500 rpm range WOT with the same setup.
SODAR,
Ski boats are "planing hulls" and this would include the PS197 & X-Star; however, when ballasted and operated in its “normal” state you could call an X-star a displacement hull. By shear wetted beam and weight the X-Star is always "wetter".

RPM range depends on the engine...the LY6 can and will turn way more RPM than the L-18 or RTP-1 and MCX. 5000 is great in an L-18...you're leaving speed on the table in an LY6. Remember; however, there is no "free lunch" when dealing with props. When optimized for hole shot they must suffer on top end and the converse is true as well. More power is the only way to gain in all areas (except fuel burn, LOL) and then the prop should be optimized to the mission...not the other way around.

The gospel I preach is that all systems effect the total system, and any change will have positive and negative effects. To minimize negative outcomes and emphasize positives the goal must be outlined and the change started at the core and worked out to subsystems. In this example make more power first and then tune your prop to fit your mission.

Hope that helps.

Ole Miss Rebels
03-11-2008, 01:21 PM
Here is what I can tell you...on a 2007 if you "gut" the tips and install the old "Silent Master" mufflers (pair) the boat will be quieter and have more power...we have done this several times and in certain models the change is so great we had to reprop the boat due to it running agains the rev-limiter at WOT.

Here is a picture of my radar gun in a 2007 X-Star with L-18 using "my" exhaust system and a 13.7x17.5 prop, 3000 lbs ballast...know any others that run this hard? BTW this is the pink boat.


mike,

does an 08 xstar with L18 have the same tips as the pink 07? i do not have the chrome plates over my exhausts. rather, i have the rubber flappers with the stainless MC monogram attached. inside of the flaps there appears to be a slotted type of baffle system. did the pink boat have the baffles inside (behind the chrome plates) also, or was it straight pipe until it got to the monogrammed plate? when you say gut it ALL, are you saying just snip off the plates or are you saying snip off the plates AND cut out the baffles (if there are any)? could i just add the two mufflers to my boat or should i cut out the baffles also? i am trying to understand the possible differences in an 07 and an 08 L18 xstar. my 2008 L18 is really loud behind the boat and to the neighbors. thanks

bstrom-tt
03-11-2008, 04:13 PM
I thought that the baffles in the exhaust tips (either type/either year) contributed to a certain back pressure amount, which is tied to the cat system, which also ties into what the ecm is programmed for.
I'm not saying what's right or wrong, just worried that folks might go out and add mufflers, cut out the guts of the tips and then have a boat that doesn't run correctly.
Mike, can you help clarify what may be my mis-information.

gwpowell
03-11-2008, 04:51 PM
Here is the what Perfect Pass had to say...note RPM.
Is the perfect pass calibrated to an GPS system. Mine showed 46MPH but the GPS showed 41MPH

wakeX2wake
03-11-2008, 04:53 PM
Is the perfect pass calibrated to an GPS system. Mine showed 46MPH but the GPS showed 41MPH
you will have to calibrate your perfect pass/speed-o using something like a gps or another boat

MYMC
03-11-2008, 05:00 PM
Is the perfect pass calibrated to an GPS system. Mine showed 46MPH but the GPS showed 41MPH
The PP was calibrated to Stalker Radar test equipment...down at 23 mph. This just shows the error at speeds with just the paddle wheel.

MYMC
03-11-2008, 05:20 PM
I thought that the baffles in the exhaust tips (either type/either year) contributed to a certain back pressure amount, which is tied to the cat system, which also ties into what the ecm is programmed for.
I'm not saying what's right or wrong, just worried that folks might go out and add mufflers, cut out the guts of the tips and then have a boat that doesn't run correctly.
Mike, can you help clarify what may be my mis-information.
The ECM is/was calibrated with the cats...never as a complete system including if you will the “tail pipes”. The engine is certified the boat is not...same as a car where emissions are concerned, the entire engine system including fuel delivery & exhaust (up to and including the cats) is tested and certified. This way the same engine package can be placed in many vehicle platforms with certainty that emissions will not be an issue. This is also why you can change “post cat” exhaust systems without violating emission laws…they have little to no effect on what is happening in the cats or before them. Where it gets different is auto builders need to pass noise laws, further they build the entire product. Boats are a conglomeration of many “off the shelf” suppliers set into a hull that is built by the "name" manufacturer.

BTW, the “Silent Master” option is in direct response to noise laws in certain states/countries/private lake communities.

To address the question directly…I am not advocating removing the cats, I think they are a great addition to the boat, and should be kept. What I am saying is that if you want more performance from your boat the old style mufflers are quieter and combined with “gutted” tips will provide greater performance.

MYMC
03-11-2008, 05:25 PM
mike,

does an 08 xstar with L18 have the same tips as the pink 07? i do not have the chrome plates over my exhausts. rather, i have the rubber flappers with the stainless MC monogram attached. inside of the flaps there appears to be a slotted type of baffle system. did the pink boat have the baffles inside (behind the chrome plates) also, or was it straight pipe until it got to the monogrammed plate? when you say gut it ALL, are you saying just snip off the plates or are you saying snip off the plates AND cut out the baffles (if there are any)? could i just add the two mufflers to my boat or should i cut out the baffles also? i am trying to understand the possible differences in an 07 and an 08 L18 xstar. my 2008 L18 is really loud behind the boat and to the neighbors. thanks
No they are not the same between 2008 and 2007. Leave the flappers and gut all the baffles inside, it should be a straight thru 4" pipe when you are done.

bstrom-tt
03-11-2008, 05:57 PM
Mike, Thanks for all the good info. Would I have a problem if I added the mufflers, but didn't gut the tips.. left them as is. The reason I ask, is that I had my local dealer get me pricing on the muffler option and they said they got a bill of materials which showed the same tips as stock, I asked specifically if there were two different sets of tips, One with baffle/one without baffle and was told it only showed one tip part number. So that would imply that if I had ordered the muffler option, on the boat from the factory, I would have mufflers and the same tips that I have today.

Again..Thanks a bunch for all your help.

gwpowell
03-12-2008, 07:08 AM
Mike, Your suggestion to gut the exhaust tips and install the "Silent Master" seems an appealing option. More performance and less noise is exactly my aim. How do I gut the exhaust tips, the baffles are welded in. And will this affect my warranty. I am not sure if my dealer will be favorable to this modification. What top speed do you estimate we should be getting. At the moment we are 44mph without skiers and 41mph with one barefooter @ 4800rpm behind our X7 MCX 1:1 gearbox and 3 blade prop.

snork
03-12-2008, 08:18 AM
Would it not make sense if you remove all the baffle and muffler just have pipes without any obstructions, wouldn't you increase your hp and performance = Speed

MYMC
03-12-2008, 10:21 AM
Mike, Thanks for all the good info. Would I have a problem if I added the mufflers, but didn't gut the tips.. left them as is. The reason I ask, is that I had my local dealer get me pricing on the muffler option and they said they got a bill of materials which showed the same tips as stock, I asked specifically if there were two different sets of tips, One with baffle/one without baffle and was told it only showed one tip part number. So that would imply that if I had ordered the muffler option, on the boat from the factory, I would have mufflers and the same tips that I have today.

Again..Thanks a bunch for all your help.
There is a tip with no "guts" factory available...it does come on boats with the "Silent Master" option. Not sure why they are showing the same part number unless this is a part that is listed as a "REQ.PART" and is done on the line.

I would not under any circumstance add the mufflers to "unmodified" tips...there is no need to add even more back pressure to this system.

MYMC
03-12-2008, 10:27 AM
Mike, Your suggestion to gut the exhaust tips and install the "Silent Master" seems an appealing option. More performance and less noise is exactly my aim. How do I gut the exhaust tips, the baffles are welded in. And will this affect my warranty. I am not sure if my dealer will be favorable to this modification. What top speed do you estimate we should be getting. At the moment we are 44mph without skiers and 41mph with one barefooter @ 4800rpm behind our X7 MCX 1:1 gearbox and 3 blade prop.
I cannot answer on behalf of MasterCraft Boat Company regarding the warranty...I would not believe it would affect it.

We use a hand held die grinder to cut the welds, it takes some time but it is not hard.

Speed increase has never been less than 3+ mph.

bstrom-tt
03-12-2008, 01:19 PM
Mike, Just got off the phone with my dealer, they had received a call back from the factory the other day, that there is in fact a different tip, without the baffle, that needs to be incorporated into the muffler set-up. My dealer has the tips coming, along with mufflers, and there going to swap it all out for me. I asked about cutting out the baffle, they said they would rather change the whole tip assembly and put the stock tips on there shelf for future use. (Who am I to argue) :)

Thanks much for your help,
Bill.

gwpowell
03-12-2008, 04:42 PM
Reduced noise and 3+mph, brilliant. Thank you all, especially Mike. I will forward all this information on to my dealer and request the change be made. Unfortunately it will take a week or two to receive the "Silent Master" kit from the USA. I will let you all know the outcome when it is complete.

1boarder
03-12-2008, 05:08 PM
I have a 2008 X2 saltwater edition that has the heat exchanger where I would expect the silent master muffler to go.

Anyone know if I can install the silentmaster exhaust with the heat exchanger (does it go below it)?

MYMC
03-12-2008, 05:50 PM
I have a 2008 X2 saltwater edition that has the heat exchanger where I would expect the silent master muffler to go.

Anyone know if I can install the silentmaster exhaust with the heat exchanger (does it go below it)?
If the boat was available before the tips were introduced i.e. 2006, then the parts are available and will fit. The exception is the CSX (both models) and the 235/X35 as the came about after the Silent Master went away. It is my understanding that there is engineering underway to add these but I do not know any projected dates.

MYMC
03-12-2008, 05:52 PM
Mike, Just got off the phone with my dealer, they had received a call back from the factory the other day, that there is in fact a different tip, without the baffle, that needs to be incorporated into the muffler set-up. My dealer has the tips coming, along with mufflers, and there going to swap it all out for me. I asked about cutting out the baffle, they said they would rather change the whole tip assembly and put the stock tips on there shelf for future use. (Who am I to argue) :)

Thanks much for your help,
Bill.
Every now and then I get things right...

I agree with them wait till the stock parts come in and you'll be happier, we only modified parts for my own testing. Glad they were able to verify for you that the real parts exist.

Enjoy the silence!

gwpowell
03-12-2008, 07:13 PM
Now I am a little confused. what does it matter if the motor has a heat exchanger? My 08 X7 MCX has a heat exchanger. Will the "Silent Master" fit?

MYMC
03-12-2008, 07:26 PM
Now I am a little confused. what does it matter if the motor has a heat exchanger? My 08 X7 MCX has a heat exchanger. Will the "Silent Master" fit?
Yes, he is has a V-drive saltwater series boat...this has no bearing on your application.

johkur
03-13-2008, 11:31 AM
I'm confused by this whole thread. If you go to http://www.mastercraft.com and click on 'quality+innovation' in the lower right hand corner of the page, then click on 'standards & options', Mastercraft defines what's a standard feature, and what would be sold separately as an option. One of the 'standards', Exhaust, says "Don't worry about keeping sound down in a Mastercraft. Unlike our competitors, we install noise-reducing fiberglass mufflers on every boat we offer". And it has a picture of the Silentmaster exhaust (webpage attached).

I ordered my X45 Saltwater Series with L18 last year, and when we configured it with options and signed the order, SilentMaster was not even listed as an 'option' (lt is now an option at design-a-boat), so I'm assuming my boat already has it. (waiting for confirmation from my dealer). But MC might want to make their website consistent.

I also see all boats in the '08 catalogs with real Exhaust 'tips', so really puzzled if now the boats ship with only flaps instead. Chrome Exhaust tips are about $500 at mymastercraft.com, so this isn't just a nothing change if its really happening in mid model year, and the Saltwater '08 Catalog even shows them being installed in a picture about Stainless Fasteners and Sealants. , So I don't understand if they really stopped shipping the fiberglass muffler that's still listed on the website as standard (the attachment), and started shipping flaps instead of real tips like the '08 catalogs show.

Both the Saltwater and X-series Catalogs list "Stainless Exhaust tips" as Standard, so the idea of just switching to flaps instead of tips looks like a big manufacturing mistake for an '08 boat if they're really shipping that way now, especially if the platform doesn't tilt, or wouldn't hit the tips. Or even then, I wouldn't expect parts to just be missing or downgraded, if this is a new manufacturing technique.

Would Mastercraft really make a bunch of changes about what's standard or optional after the catalogs print and people ordered their boats?

TheOneandOnly
03-14-2008, 01:07 PM
We thought ours *08x2 was going to be the stainless steel tips that was a big cosmetic difference over the competors which we liked, we will be getting ours in a few weeks but it has the rubber flapps, IMO not an upgrade but downgrade But if its because of the back pressure and it gives us more ump then im ok.

I wish they MC factory would tell you the differences you'll be getting when you order one (since we thought we were getting the same exact thing as a previous 08x2 they had in stock), especially when MC decides to change stuff. My buddy ordered an 08x2 also 2 weeks before me and got the SS tips... Again sky isnt falling but we liked the ss tips

vision
03-14-2008, 01:19 PM
Agreed. Looks different, sounds different, performs different. Hey, I understand that the CAT and the new fold down platform (which is great) forced some changes. But, IMHO MC has not been at the top of their game in customer relations and the quality control during the last 3 to 5 years. Heck, I asked my dealer 2 months ago about ways to quite down my 08 X-star and they had no suggestions. So even some of the dealers are not being kept up to date. MC is still one of the best, but not quite as attentive to detail as in the past. For 75K, I was hoping for the same high attention to detail I had experienced on older MCs.

johkur
03-14-2008, 05:00 PM
I'm still not getting it. I ordered an 8.1L, so I don't think CAT's are used, and I think the Attitude Adjustment Plate would block the tips from being hit by the swim platform if it folds down anyway. I also don't think tips on their own create backpressure, just that baffles can be in the pipe on the way to the tip (inside the boat) or not. No baffles if you have Silent Master, baffles if you do. (from what I've read here). And the '08 catalogs list 'stainless exhaust tips' as standard, so I think the flaps really must be some sort of mistake, they're certainly not 'stainless exhaust tips'.

Also, I spoke with Mastercraft Technicians at Mastercraft before I bought the boat and specifically discussed noise concerns if I went with the 8.1L L18, and lack of silent master or need for silent master was not mentioned. I was told the boat met European noise standards, but now finding out that 'European package' includes Silent Master, so Silent Master not being included has me wondering. As I put in the above post, the website still says that all boats come with a fiberglass exhaust as 'standard' (not an option). As far as I can tell, Silent Master is how Mastercraft provides fiberglass exhaust, and losing the tips is really surprising.

On the plus side, my boat included a new jump seat which I wasn't expecting, but I haven't been given any info about that either. I thought it was a great plus, but now if it means having a boat I can't use in the early morning due to noise, or losing the stainless exhaust tips, it wasn't a deal I would have made.

gwpowell
03-16-2008, 06:24 AM
Thanks "jonkur" I will take the web page to my dealer. I am glad I am not the only one who thinks we should be told of any changes. I too think the chrome exhaust tips look a lot better and they certainly perform better. I also ordered a transom tow rail which was machined billet aluminum and it arrived as welded stainless steel tube. It is simply not good enough to make these changes and not inform customers their boats won't come fitted out as expected.

gwpowell
03-16-2008, 09:04 PM
I just received an email from my dealer telling me "Mastercraft state on there brochures that they reserve the right to change without prior warning with options and features on there boats as they have done with the (chrome) s/s mufflers and the reason for doing that is they have had some of the old style tips breaking."
I had to search for 15 minutes to find something which looks like a disclaimer and I would not have been able to read it if he hadn't told me what it said. It actually says in tiny light grey text; "Becauseofourongoingcommitmenttoproductqualityandin novatiion, wereservetherighttochangeordiscontinueanyspecifica tions, construction, designs, features, modelsoreequipmentwithoutnoticeor obligation."

The grammar is not an error on my part! This is how it reads.

Anyway if this is actually the case they could deliver us a fishing boat with an X7 badge and expect us to take it because they reserve the right to change whatever they want..

Where does it say they reserve the right to completely remove a "standard feature" such as the Silent Master muffler? Or they reserve the right for their dealers to tell customers the boat will do 48MPH with the MCX motor when it doesn't. Or where does it say they reserve the right to deliver engine hatches which do not fit over the engine because it has a heat exchanger. Where does it say they reserve the right to make the boat significantly noisier when I specifically ordered such an expensive boat so it would be quiet.

I understand why changes need to be made from time to time and obviously they cannot produce a new brochure every time a change is made. But at the time of ordering a boat every change not stated in the literature should be made clear to the purchaser. I would not have purchased the boat had I known the muffler system was being removed or it did not have the performance I was led to believe it would.

I am not happy MC

P.S. My brand new MCX engine has just seized after 10.6 hours so my boat is very quiet now. But that is a whole new story.

TheOneandOnly
03-16-2008, 09:42 PM
amen. I couldnt agree anymore. They cant always update people with changes all the time however when the change stuff they should notify customers asap especially when they just order. Paying 60k+ to not get options that the other one had is suckey, especially when it seems like a downgrade

What happened to your motor?

Were in the same boat... We got the attitude plate also so the teak hits that before the tips so MC changing to the flaps doesnt justify the change. Boy that text is hard to see, and read

johkur
03-16-2008, 10:29 PM
The fine print in the catalog (or maybe the website) is about 'advertising'. Once you place your order, however, its not clear that the issue is advertising anymore, and what you buy is supposedly what you should expect to see delivered. That's not about the advertising anymore. If you buy something and are simply given something else instead, that's usually a problem too, and it looks especially bad if the vendor didn't even ask you if it was ok to swap the item. And of course someone can't put pictures of Rolls Royce's in their brochures and sell Kia's and say its because its subject to change.

When I bought my Denali instead of a Suburban, one of the differences was a Stainless Steel Exhaust, which is basically a cosmetic Stainless 'sleeve' over the regular exhaust. And maybe it might break or be less efficient than the Suburban exhaust pipe alone. But if GM didn't include the Stainless Steel Exhaust when I got the car, I have to say that I would be very concerned what else might have been removed. It wouldn't be OK to simply not include it as part of the standard denali anymore, especially not mid-model year and after the order was placed.

And the site still shows the 'standard' fiberglass exhaust silent Master, and the stainless steel Exhaust Tips are still marketed as standard as well, which is why I can't believe they deliberately would remove those items, given the continued advertising of their inclusion. I don't believe a disclaimer is license to advertise things known to be false.

But I'm less concerned about legalities at this point and hoping that this is more simply about customer service and how Mastercraft wants to be perceived by current and potential customers. If people order boats and get something else, that wouldn't be a reputation most vendors would want. I have to keep thinking, thinking positive (and I have no reason not to at this point), that Mastercraft just had a shortage of the right tips or corrected tips, and temporarily sent out some boats with flaps, and expects to have the dealer put the correct part on later this season when available. I can't believe that their intent would be to replace Stainless Steel Exhaust Tips (that might even have had flaps) with flaps alone, or to simply not include a $350 or so Silent Master option on an MSRP $100K+ boat to save a few bucks.

So advertising the Silent Master (or 'fiberglass exhaust' with a picture of 'silent master') as standard in all their boats in the 'standard' listing, but not doing that, that's another one that would be a shock. Especially when hearing that silent master with non-baffled tips is superior power and lower noise than no silentmaster and baffled tips, especially when baffled tips are suspect on causing too much backpressure. If it takes backpressure from 2 psi to 3psi (as some baffled tips I found elsewhere), that's still a 50% increase, pretty scary.

I hope Mastercraft chimes in soon, becuase I'm really otherwise very excited about my new boat and really can't believe they'd deliberately just start removing standard features after orders are placed, and its clear they've been advertising Silent Master as standard for quite some time. If this isn't a mistake, then what else can't I believe from the site, that they don't use the same type stringers anymore, or other changes that maybe I can't see right away? I really want to assume the best, and hope that the right non-baffled stainless steel exhaust tips and Fiberglass exhaust system are retro-fits, just like they still advertise. If they need to tell me to be careful the one time a year when I lower the platform (if it even lowers on Saltwater Series, not sure), to make sure the attitude plate is protecting the 'standard Stainless Steel Exhaust tips' by being in the right position, or some other way, that's fine too.

I sure hope this is all just a mixup or short term parts shortage, but I'm glad someone flagged this, or I might not have noticed the items in my boat-to-be so quickly.

johkur
03-16-2008, 10:30 PM
Duplicate post removed.

MYMC
03-17-2008, 11:21 AM
Every manufacturer reserves the right to make running changes…it has always been that way.

2007 boats didn’t have Silent Master muffler either…and this was posted everywhere on this board and others.

The new outlet/flap is stainless also, so the only “real” change is cosmetic…and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

TheOneandOnly
03-17-2008, 12:31 PM
MYMC- my guess is you work for MC. Nothing better than ordering a new ride thinking your getting the 20" rims to only find out you paid the same price for the 16" rims... If it was that big of a deal for me I would have made it, unfortunitly i dont care to much... Again changing anything should always be told to the individual and MC shouldnt change until notifying all customers orders they have in house. Furthermore, they should change their literature before converting so no one pissed off, as seen above...
But I guess when your a big company who cares, do it the way you want...

MYMC
03-17-2008, 01:14 PM
MYMC- my guess is you work for MC. Nothing better than ordering a new ride thinking your getting the 20" rims to only find out you paid the same price for the 16" rims... If it was that big of a deal for me I would have made it, unfortunitly i dont care to much... Again changing anything should always be told to the individual and MC shouldnt change until notifying all customers orders they have in house. Furthermore, they should change their literature before converting so no one pissed off, as seen above...
But I guess when your a big company who cares, do it the way you want...
You'd guess wrong, I am not an employee of MasterCraft and the opinions I state are my own and in no way reflect those of MasterCraft Boat Company, it’s owners, vendors, suppliers, dealers or subsidiaries.

If you are equating $300 exhaust tips to $4000 wheels that would be a bit of a stretch IMHO. Every company on earth makes running changes and it would be a logistical nightmare to contact every customer about every change. While you may think the exhaust change is significant the next guy may not...so where do you draw a line…who gets contacted and who doesn’t? And wouldn’t this be the responsibility of the dealer since in reality they are MasterCraft’s customer and you are the dealer’s customer?

I do agree that if MasterCraft Boat Company is still advertising the use of Silent Master mufflers as standard equipment they need to update and revise wherever this is stated…particularly 2 years later.

Running changes: They changed the name of the former X-Star to the X-Series then to the X2 all in 2003 and the graphics reflected the change. 2004 they changed the 190/197 rudder, 2007 & 2008 the 4 blade to 3 blade prop changes…on and on. While the last two changes contribute more to performance than aesthetics they are running changes none the less and some would argue more important.

TheOneandOnly
03-17-2008, 01:25 PM
The example is stated to point out the problem, when ever someone pays/preorders something he/or she should get exactly what they saw. If their is going to be changes dealers need to be inline to forward that info to the customer. As such Id agree the dealer should always know whats happening/changing with their stock and mc factory should always forward that to the dealer so he/she can forward that to the customer. This probably already happens, who knows?

As you can see when ever their is changes and sales personal or MC factory fail to forward that on, nightmares occur...

MYMC
03-17-2008, 01:28 PM
As you can see when ever their is changes and sales personal or MC factory fail to forward that on, nightmares occur...
Agreed......

gwpowell
03-17-2008, 06:22 PM
Mike, I cannot believe you actually think this is OK. I don't think we are suggesting that every single change such as a computer chip or a change to the fan belt should be notified but all cosmetic changes and major performance modifications such as overhauling the exhaust system which makes the boat significantly noisier, less efficient and the tips make it less appealing must be notified. You yourself have stated on other threads that the removal of the baffles in the tips and addition of the Silent Master will produce a 3+mph improvement. You may have been aware that the Silent Master was omitted from the 07 model but my dealer certainly was not and nor was I. It is still advertised as a standard feature on every boat they make along with the tips. As for your statement: "While you may think the exhaust change is significant the next guy may not...so where do you draw a line…who gets contacted and who doesn’t?" Well this is obviously why they need to contact every customer who has an order in the system and notify all dealers. What you may like I may not and therefore I may not want the boat in that form. I ordered what I ordered and paid significant $$$ for, not MC's interpretation of what I should accept. I in fact added a transom tow rail as an option. At the time of ordering this was machined billet aluminum and I thought improved the look of the boat. I received fitted to the boat a stainless tube screwed to the gunnel. This was an expensive option which I would not have purchased had I known the change to an inferior product. I also ordered a flush kit which on every model I have seen the inlet is located externally on the transom as a chrome fitting. I received a plastic hose fitting connected to the water intake pipe under the hatch. Again I paid a lot of money for this option and received something I could have fitted myself for $10
The point is they advertise these things but do not deliver them. It is false and misleading advertising.
Logistically how difficult can it be to notify customers of changes to the advertised product. MC simply need a list of changes which is updated as they are made and sent to dealers and in turn customers are informed immediately.

Ric
03-17-2008, 06:49 PM
Here is what I can tell you...on a 2007 if you "gut" the tips and install the old "Silent Master" mufflers (pair) the boat will be quieter and have more power...we have done this several times and in certain models the change is so great we had to reprop the boat due to it running agains the rev-limiter at WOT.

Here is a picture of my radar gun in a 2007 X-Star with L-18 using "my" exhaust system and a 13.7x17.5 prop, 3000 lbs ballast...know any others that run this hard? BTW this is the pink boat. Fellas you are all missing the most important part of Mike's participation in this discussion. WE GOT PICS OF THE PINK BOAT!!!!!!

JohnE
03-17-2008, 07:25 PM
Mike, I cannot believe you actually think this is OK. I don't think we are suggesting that every single change such as a computer chip or a change to the fan belt should be notified but all cosmetic changes and major performance modifications such as overhauling the exhaust system which makes the boat significantly noisier, less efficient and the tips make it less appealing must be notified. You yourself have stated on other threads that the removal of the baffles in the tips and addition of the Silent Master will produce a 3+mph improvement. You may have been aware that the Silent Master was omitted from the 07 model but my dealer certainly was not and nor was I. It is still advertised as a standard feature on every boat they make along with the tips. As for your statement: "While you may think the exhaust change is significant the next guy may not...so where do you draw a line…who gets contacted and who doesn’t?" Well this is obviously why they need to contact every customer who has an order in the system and notify all dealers. What you may like I may not and therefore I may not want the boat in that form. I ordered what I ordered and paid significant $$$ for, not MC's interpretation of what I should accept. I in fact added a transom tow rail as an option. At the time of ordering this was machined billet aluminum and I thought improved the look of the boat. I received fitted to the boat a stainless tube screwed to the gunnel. This was an expensive option which I would not have purchased had I known the change to an inferior product. I also ordered a flush kit which on every model I have seen the inlet is located externally on the transom as a chrome fitting. I received a plastic hose fitting connected to the water intake pipe under the hatch. Again I paid a lot of money for this option and received something I could have fitted myself for $10
The point is they advertise these things but do not deliver them. It is false and misleading advertising.
Logistically how difficult can it be to notify customers of changes to the advertised product. MC simply need a list of changes which is updated as they are made and sent to dealers and in turn customers are informed immediately.

Isn't this an issue that you should take up with your dealer? Tell him that those changes are not what you ordered and then discuss a possible adjustment in price. Or walk away from the purchase. After all, he sold you the product. And if he doesn't deliver what he sold, my beef would be with him. Then he in turn can take it up with the factory. There is or should be a heirarchy of accountability. The factory I'd guess will listen if they hear enough of the same input from dealers. All of the complaining from us owners won't get anything accomplished. MC is all about their sales. But from what I can see, all dealers are not as informed as they could be. I spoke with one in person in August, and they didn't know some of the changes that were widely discussed on this board. Such as the redesigned mini tower. He actually told me I was mistaken that it had been redesigned. And I'd seen a bunch of pics here from owners of '08's with the actual product.

kev88
03-18-2008, 09:12 AM
Sounds like significant communication issues between MC and the dealer. When I asked my dealer about MC switching from chrome to flaps he did not know until a boat arrived with flaps.

Before purchasing my X-2 I relied heavily on the spec sheet in comparing models -I bought a boat that was in stock so I was able to visibly inspect before I signed.....

Love my boat!

MYMC
03-18-2008, 10:09 AM
Mike, I cannot believe you actually think this is OK. I don't think we are suggesting that every single change such as a computer chip or a change to the fan belt should be notified but all cosmetic changes and major performance modifications such as overhauling the exhaust system which makes the boat significantly noisier, less efficient and the tips make it less appealing must be notified. You yourself have stated on other threads that the removal of the baffles in the tips and addition of the Silent Master will produce a 3+mph improvement. You may have been aware that the Silent Master was omitted from the 07 model but my dealer certainly was not and nor was I. It is still advertised as a standard feature on every boat they make along with the tips. As for your statement: "While you may think the exhaust change is significant the next guy may not...so where do you draw a line…who gets contacted and who doesn’t?" Well this is obviously why they need to contact every customer who has an order in the system and notify all dealers. What you may like I may not and therefore I may not want the boat in that form. I ordered what I ordered and paid significant $$$ for, not MC's interpretation of what I should accept. I in fact added a transom tow rail as an option. At the time of ordering this was machined billet aluminum and I thought improved the look of the boat. I received fitted to the boat a stainless tube screwed to the gunnel. This was an expensive option which I would not have purchased had I known the change to an inferior product. I also ordered a flush kit which on every model I have seen the inlet is located externally on the transom as a chrome fitting. I received a plastic hose fitting connected to the water intake pipe under the hatch. Again I paid a lot of money for this option and received something I could have fitted myself for $10
The point is they advertise these things but do not deliver them. It is false and misleading advertising.
Logistically how difficult can it be to notify customers of changes to the advertised product. MC simply need a list of changes which is updated as they are made and sent to dealers and in turn customers are informed immediately.
Let me clear the air a bit:
1) I was trying to help you with a question you had...nothing more.
2) I find it very odd that for a full year you and your dealer failed to notice that your boat had no Silent Master mufflers...
3) The billet piece was a by design product and was NEVER standard on 190/197. If you are referring to the billet piece on other X-Series boats, yes that is standard but NEVER has been on the X7...just like VDIG.

Finally: The accusations and allegations are way beyond being said for any good...good luck to you, but I'm done with this post.

wakeX2wake
03-18-2008, 10:44 AM
granted i strongly believe you should get what you pay for and MC should deliver what you specifically order... it just seems a little INSANE to order $70k worth of boat out of a magazine... if it's not what you want when it comes in you adjust the price to something you're comfortable with or walk away... there is so much that goes into building one of these boats... it's MC not GMC... the parts and the volume/suppliers and vendors timing is a ridiculous task... being that my career is in manufacturing i can say first hand that customers get what suppliers are able to get them... customers rarely know what they want they are provided options on what they could have and select from those on their own scale of price vs ammenity

rodecker1978
03-20-2008, 05:24 PM
granted i strongly believe you should get what you pay for and MC should deliver what you specifically order... it just seems a little INSANE to order $70k worth of boat out of a magazine... if it's not what you want when it comes in you adjust the price to something you're comfortable with or walk away... there is so much that goes into building one of these boats... it's MC not GMC... the parts and the volume/suppliers and vendors timing is a ridiculous task... being that my career is in manufacturing i can say first hand that customers get what suppliers are able to get them... customers rarely know what they want they are provided options on what they could have and select from those on their own scale of price vs ammenity
auburnx2,
Mastercraft is an incredibly reputable name and we expect that we should be able to look at floor models and order what we like...after all, Mastercraft offers this option to us. When we spend $70k, whether the boat is pre-ordered or bought off the floor, we should get exactly what we paid for, with the exception of small insignificant parts. I believe that if I paid for stainless exhaust tips w/baffles I should get exactly that or that MC/delaer should switch the parts out at no cost....

You agree?

east tx skier
03-20-2008, 05:58 PM
Running changes: They changed the name of the former X-Star to the X-Series then to the X2 all in 2003 and the graphics reflected the change. 2004 they changed the 190/197 rudder, 2007 & 2008 the 4 blade to 3 blade prop changes…on and on. While the last two changes contribute more to performance than aesthetics they are running changes none the less and some would argue more important.

Let's not forget the PPTS! Have a great weekend, all. Mike, we have some good flying weather in Texas this weekend!

johkur
03-26-2008, 05:18 AM
To further confirm what mymc posted about going back to silent master with straight-thru tips having more power, see http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=22241 where it turns out that newer L18 boats can't seem to turn the same prop that older ones did. OJ "built the 14.5 X 22 and 14.5 X 23's just for that motor a few years ago, now the motor cannot pull either prop."

My dealer was told that to add silentmaster to an '08 needs bigger holes in the transom too, so I have to think that the combination of not having silent master and then having to blow through smaller transom holes with baffles there as well, has to be alot more pressure, and loss of HP, as mymc was saying. Of course, maybe there's other reasons for loss of power on top of that, so not sure if even with silent master and the bigger straight-thru tips of 2006 that the boat could turn the prop as well as the '06 models can. Any ideas on that?

Is the exhaust change the only cause of less power in newer models? (which are also louder according to this thread). I also wonder which prop is recommended/shipped with L18 X45 2008's in Europe, since that package includes the silent master (and hopefully the bigger transom holes).

pistol pete
03-26-2008, 09:29 AM
I just got my 08 xstar and it has rubber flaps and a MCX engine. The boat is loader and at idle the flaps are banging closed making a clunk noise in the cockpit, so the dealer says it is because the rubber flap is stiffer.

johkur
03-26-2008, 10:06 AM
Your 08 xtar is louder than what are you comparing to? Is it just the flaps banging due to a stiff rubber flap, or engine noise louder as well? Since Xstars have had the rubber flap for a long time, why is this version doing that, new flap type?). Also, what prop did you get, same prop as older MCX Xstar's or something new?

pistol pete
03-26-2008, 12:56 PM
Compared to my old 2003 x-30. My dealer says it is just the stiffer flaps banging and I am wondering if other owners are experiencing the same issue, if so maybe it is a design flaw that MC should take care of,or maybe as I get more hours on boat it will go away. 14x14.25 OJ

fatladysingin
03-29-2008, 04:30 PM
We should trade boats. I want mine louder.;)

johkur
03-29-2008, 06:59 PM
Here is what I can tell you...on a 2007 if you "gut" the tips and install the old "Silent Master" mufflers (pair) the boat will be quieter and have more power...we have done this several times and in certain models the change is so great we had to reprop the boat due to it running agains the rev-limiter at WOT.

Here is a picture of my radar gun in a 2007 X-Star with L-18 using "my" exhaust system and a 13.7x17.5 prop, 3000 lbs ballast...know any others that run this hard? BTW this is the pink boat.
MYMC, what do you mean by 'install the silent master mufflers (pair)'? Isnt the silent master a single unit that is tied to the exhaust outputs and tips? Would you really install a pair of silent master mufflers somehow?

fbroen
04-01-2008, 02:13 PM
I was wondering the same thing about the "pair." I have only seen the single coupled version.

johkur
04-04-2008, 09:46 AM
I just got confirmation, the new silentmasters really are a pair, which avoids the complaints about not being able to reach the impeller when you use the older large single silentmaster across the stern. I'm told the new silentmasters add up to about the same volume, but run down the sides similar to the stock exhaust and I assume eliminate the big complaint about the older silentmasters. That explains MYMC's mention of a pair of silentmasters when he did his tests earlier in this thread. Seems like a great option.

fbroen
04-04-2008, 11:24 AM
So the pair would apply to v-drives too?

I also asked around a bit about the "pair" and got word back that the 197 has (or used to) have separate mufflers.

gwpowell
04-14-2008, 06:32 AM
So here is the result finally.

MC have come to the party and fitted the Silent Master Muffler (pair definitely) with new rubber flapper exhaust tips. The new tips have no internal baffles, they are straight through exhaust.

The Silent Master muffler is significantly quieter than the rubber flap exhaust tips with internal baffles which were supplied in the boat at delivery. I am not sure they are quieter than the old stainless steel tips. It is a close call. So if anyone was wondering if they should ditch the old tips for a Silent Master system don't bother. But if you are ordering a new boat and want it to be quiet they are a must.

The Silent master is a pair and are not joined. New tips came with the kit and do not have any baffles inside. They are the rubber flap type with SS logo and fitted without modification into the existing holes in the transom.

The boat has now been run in and there is no performance increase at all by using the Silent Master with straight through tips as opposed to the supplied baffled tips which is disappointing.

X7 with MCX and standard four blade prop at WOT 5080rpm 43mph measured with GPS

johkur
04-14-2008, 08:48 AM
Having less noise with the same power is still a good thing, at least depending if noise is an issue for you. But I see you have an MCX, and I guess your results mean that the MCX is not banging up against the limits of exhaust pressure caused by restriction in the silencers. I'm still thinking that the L18 (versus MCX) performance will benefit from the silentmaster versus silencers at the transom since the L18 is pushing alot more air into the exhaust and was the engine that was effected by the older stainless tips as well (which restricted outflow). The silencer may not have been limiting the MCX's outflow as much, but at least you're still seeing the benefits on the noise side.

The L18 is a noisier engine to start with and can't have as much restriction as the MCX, so I think that's why MYMC saw performance improvements too (with L18). Maybe the MCX wasn't fighting the exhaust system to get max power, while the L18 seems to be fighting to exhale with the silencers instead of the silentmaster and so should also get the performance benefit when the silentmaster is used instead.

Also, maybe you did get some improvements you just can't measure as you are, and would want to try a prop with more pitch? Your prop might just be 'spilling' any additional power that you might have anyway, IF the exhaust change did remove a restriction that was effecting the MCX.

fbroen
04-14-2008, 10:11 AM
How does one figure the exhaust backpressure limits. And what are the issues with being at or above the limits?

I have a 08 MCX with CATs and the baffled stainless tips. Would like to add muffler(s) and not gut the tips. If one does not care about some powerloss, are there other considerations?

MYMC
04-14-2008, 02:01 PM
How does one figure the exhaust backpressure limits. And what are the issues with being at or above the limits?

I have a 08 MCX with CATs and the baffled stainless tips. Would like to add muffler(s) and not gut the tips. If one does not care about some powerloss, are there other considerations?
No amount of backpressure is good. Despite what some believe and advise there is nothing "good" about it. What has happened in the past is (automotive) engines and systems were optimized to deal with backpressure inducing exhaust systems. Then when the backpressure inducing components were removed power was sometimes lost.

The danger to higher backpressures is the rise in EGT. Enough build up and really bad things begin to happen. Also, as an old time engine builder once told me "anything that eats it's own waste won't live long".

fbroen
04-14-2008, 02:28 PM
MYMC, thx for clarification.

My dilemma is that y'all are about to convert our MCX to closed cool. Probably not possible to fit a silentmaster in there as well (205v).

Are there any other options left you guys could do to quiet it down?

MYMC
04-14-2008, 02:43 PM
MYMC, thx for clarification.

My dilemma is that y'all are about to convert our MCX to closed cool. Probably not possible to fit a silentmaster in there as well (205v).

Are there any other options left you guys could do to quiet it down?
We can add the muffler; however, I would not reccomend using it with the "muffler tip" as well. If we install the muffler we should also install the straight through tips.

johkur
04-14-2008, 02:51 PM
MYMC, are straight-thru tips available for such a retrofit? My L18 that came with the silencers and the new rubber flaps measures almost 4 inches Inside diameter. So I believe we still need the same 60 degree angle from transom upwards to the silentmaster, and in my case, want actual stainless tips, not rubber flaps, which don't seem to be typically made at that new bigger diameter.

I also heard that unlike the silencers, the silentmaster prevents water from backing up on reverse, so a rubber flap or flapper in the tip is not necessary, you agree? I would normally think that ultimately even a silentmaster could fill with water in reverse, so a flapper (not referring to the silencer/baffles, but a check-flapper similar to the rubber flapper on the newer boats and X-stars but just a flapper inside the exhaust tip) would be desirable, even with a stainless tip.

gwpowell
04-14-2008, 05:03 PM
MYMC, thx for clarification.

My dilemma is that y'all are about to convert our MCX to closed cool. Probably not possible to fit a silentmaster in there as well (205v).

Are there any other options left you guys could do to quiet it down?


My MCX has closed cooling and has just had the Silent Master Fitted. The cooling is at the front of the motor, the Silent master is at the back.

blown65
04-15-2008, 07:55 PM
How much louder is it without the silencers there and not adding the muffler? Those silencers sure look restrictive to me for a 496 cu inch engine.

gwpowell
04-16-2008, 06:17 AM
How much louder is it without the silencers there and not adding the muffler? Those silencers sure look restrictive to me for a 496 cu inch engine.

I am not quite sure of your question.

By "silencers" you mean the "tips of the exhaust" and "muffler" do you mean "Silent Master Muffler System"

I have not run the boat without the "Tips" and without the "Silent Master" at the same time.

blown65
04-16-2008, 02:14 PM
sorry that I wasn't clear. The tips on mine have a silencer that IMO is very restrictive for an 8.1l engine.

gregte
10-20-2008, 10:34 AM
Is anybody here running BOTH the silent master mufflers AND the baffled tips? I just bought an 08 TT197/mcx350, it has the silent master mufflers with the open tips, it is too loud. I was thinking that adding the muffled tips to quiet it down even more. I can't believe the added back pressure can be that much of an issue.

craig3972
10-20-2008, 11:35 AM
Vision said (page 2) that he had a Fresh Air Exhaust kit on the way. Has anyone else installed one of these kits? http://www.freshairexhaust.com/

SunCoast 83
10-21-2008, 02:08 AM
Im glad they are loud again....like the old ones. They were getting too lame there on the exhaust sound :D

gwpowell
10-21-2008, 04:33 AM
Im glad they are loud again....like the old ones. They were getting too lame there on the exhaust sound :D

Sorry to get all prudish about this but NOISE is a problem and the sooner some people learn to tone it down the better.

We have a band of locals here all wanting to close our river down to skiers because of the noise. And what really pi$$es me off is it is only a very few who do not see the big picture and continue to enjoy their loud boats. If we ALL kept our noise output to a minimum we would have more places to ski.

I was talking to a motor cross official a couple of days ago who told me they had a similar problem with their sport. Here in Brisbane Australia they had 15 motor cross parks 5 years ago and now there are just 3. The simple reason is the noise pollution is objectionable to all but those riding the bikes, so the majority massed and had all the parks shut down. The riders did not want to limit the noise from the bikes because it reduced the power slightly. What the bozos could not understand was if they all did it they would be on a level playing field anyway.

Next time you are enjoying your loud boat remember there are others who are not so appreciative of the throaty V8 and they will in the end stop us skiing altogether.

Maybe MC should take a look at the exhaust system employed in the Nautique 196 it has both manifolds merging into one 5 inch outlet. It is brilliantly quiet.

JohnE
10-21-2008, 06:41 AM
Maybe MC should take a look at the exhaust system employed in the Nautique 196 it has both manifolds merging into one 5 inch outlet. It is brilliantly quiet.

The exhausts on the later 08's and on have a muffler and are substantially quieter.

I love the sound of the exhaust on my '08 X14, but I know that it would be much better for the neighbors on the small lake we are on if it were the newer quiet version.

And I agree with most if not all of your above post.

Heck, the people in the back of my boat don't like my exhaust sound.

TMCNo1
10-21-2008, 08:33 AM
The exhausts on the later 08's and on have a muffler and are substantially quieter.

I love the sound of the exhaust on my '08 X14, but I know that it would be much better for the neighbors on the small lake we are on if it were the newer quiet version.

And I agree with most if not all of your above post.

Heck, the people in the back of my boat don't like my exhaust sound.


It sure sounds sweet following you down the lake in the dark!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined)

vision
10-21-2008, 02:47 PM
Fresh Air Exhaust. I will never have another MC without one. Better experience for all involved, riders and neighbors.

Holman J.B.F
10-21-2008, 03:24 PM
FAE my winter project.
or silent master system AND FAE,.i hate that LY6 noise,we can,t even have a normal coversation ....UNLESS WE TALK REAL LOUD..HUH WHAT?...,...real cosy

jess
10-21-2008, 04:44 PM
I have the same question as gregte -- anyone running BOTH the new mufflers and the 08 baffled flapper tips?

We are about to have the mufflers installed on our 08 XStar and would like to keep the baffled flapper tips if at all possible.

Malibu is offering muffler AND silencing tips as option from factory. Seems to me that if this works on their CAT Indmars it shouldn't be that big of a deal on the MCX?

gwpowell
10-21-2008, 04:51 PM
Fresh Air Exhaust. I will never have another MC without one. Better experience for all involved, riders and neighbors.

What is the Fresh Air Exhaust? Are you referring to the catalytic converter?

I am expecting my new X7 any day now with the LY6 and Cat and Silent master.

I for one would like an absolutely silent boat. So I too would like to know definitively if you can fit the baffled tips as well.

I have had boats with the MCX with the 06 exhaust tips and no Silent Master and an MCX with the Silent Master without the tips. The Baffled tips are definitely quieter than the Silent Master.

I have friends with older boats who have fitted cross over exhausts to great effect. This increases power and reduces noise. But I don't want to go down this road with my brand new motor given the warranty etc.

Holman J.B.F
10-21-2008, 04:54 PM
http://www.freshairexhaust.com/

problem solved.

454Prostar190
10-21-2008, 05:29 PM
http://www.freshairexhaust.com/

problem solved.

That's pretty cool! I have never seen anything like this before.

craig3972
10-21-2008, 06:48 PM
FAE just sent me this

41482


Sorry about the size it basically says you can get $100 off if you order before Jan3/09 or $75 off each for group buy

TMCNo1
10-21-2008, 07:02 PM
FAE just sent me this

41482


Sorry about the size it basically says you can get $100 off if you order before Jan3/09 or $75 off each for group buy


I think it says an additional $25 off depending on order date for a gb, but don't do it on here, it's against posting rules and has to be done privately.

gregte
10-21-2008, 09:23 PM
Is anybody here actually running a FAE? I'm skeptical because of the way the downpipe drags in the water. Maybe the strut and rudder make a trough where it is ? Putting exhaust in the water must make the wake more turbulent also.

vision
10-22-2008, 08:09 AM
I would try just the FAE without the mufflers first before paying for the mufflers. I have one of the first 08 X-stars with MCX which came with the baffled flapper tips and no muffler. Added FAE and it is AMAZINGLY quieter. Much quieter than my previous MCX with Silent Master mufflers. I am not sure you would need both.

Besides a small rooster tail of spray under the platform from the FAE, I can tell no change in performance, wake, or handling. Easy to install. Plus, my stereo sounds markedly better ; ).

Jesus_Freak
10-22-2008, 01:14 PM
Is anybody here actually running a FAE? I'm skeptical because of the way the downpipe drags in the water. Maybe the strut and rudder make a trough where it is ? Putting exhaust in the water must make the wake more turbulent also.

The flow of water separating downstream of the downpipes would produce wake problems before the injection of the gas would. The website claims there are no problems.:rolleyes:. The website also says, "exhaust gasses flow more efficiently if they are swirling as opposed to going straight...", which is precisely incorrect.

craig3972
10-22-2008, 02:32 PM
I have an 2006 X-star with the silent master muffler and the old style flappers without the internal baffles.
Vision - do you think i am wasting my money putting on an FAE on my setup?

gwpowell
10-22-2008, 04:38 PM
If venting the exhaust straight into the water reduces gas in and around the boat and also reduces the noise output why don't the manufacturers have exhausts which go directly down vertically through the hull on either side of the rudder. I would imagine the venturi effect of the water passing the outlets would help draw the gas out. I am certainly no physicist though.

On another note: The FAE site claims an incredible reduction in gas at the platform when stationary - When Stationary traditional exhausts are under the waterline anyway. Would the fact the FAE outputs the water approx one foot deeper really make that much difference?

vision
10-22-2008, 09:20 PM
I have an 2006 X-star with the silent master muffler and the old style flappers without the internal baffles.
Vision - do you think i am wasting my money putting on an FAE on my setup?

Depends on your goal. Certainly, the FAE has been proven to lower CO levels substantially. So if you surf, that is a reason to get a FAE. Since you have a pre-catalytic convertor boat, the reduction in CO is beneficial.

From a noise stand point, it depends on how quiet you want your boat. On a scale of 0 to 10 where 0 is you can not hear it and 10 is too loud to talk to the person next to you, my 08 X-star with no mufflers, just baffled tips was an 8 at 25 mph, my 05 X2 with an MCX and Silent Master mufflers was a 6, and our 08 X-star with FAE is a 1-2. If you find your 2006 X-star noisy, then by all means I would get the FAE.

I really hated how loud our X-star was when you were riding behind it. With the FAE, all I can hear is wind, water, and the stereo.

vision
10-22-2008, 09:28 PM
If venting the exhaust straight into the water reduces gas in and around the boat and also reduces the noise output why don't the manufacturers have exhausts which go directly down vertically through the hull on either side of the rudder. I would imagine the venturi effect of the water passing the outlets would help draw the gas out. I am certainly no physicist though.


Good question. But I think the reason they have not so far is that loud boats sold better. Owners liked the growl of a loud V8. I will predict for 2010 that several inboard manufacturers will offer FAE or a similar device as an option.

Ole Miss Rebels
10-22-2008, 09:32 PM
Depends on your goal. Certainly, the FAE has been proven to lower CO levels substantially. So if you surf, that is a reason to get a FAE. Since you have a pre-catalytic convertor boat, the reduction in CO is beneficial.

From a noise stand point, it depends on how quiet you want your boat. On a scale of 0 to 10 where 0 is you can not hear it and 10 is too loud to talk to the person next to you, my 08 X-star with no mufflers, just baffled tips was an 8 at 25 mph, my 05 X2 with an MCX and Silent Master mufflers was a 6, and our 08 X-star with FAE is a 1-2. If you find your 2006 X-star noisy, then by all means I would get the FAE.

I really hated how loud our X-star was when you were riding behind it. With the FAE, all I can hear is wind, water, and the stereo.

wow, vision. that is about as ringing of an endorsement as one could expect. i am struggling with the idea of how to quieten my 08 xstar with L18 , no mufflers and baffled tips. i am torn between adding the twin silent-master mufflers and remooving the baffled tips and replacing with straight tips and flaps or going with the FAE. the way you quantified it above it seems like a no brainer to just add the FAE and be done with it

is there any down-side to the fae. please comment specifically on the spray under the platform, thanks.

vision
10-23-2008, 09:47 AM
There is definitely a spray from under the platform from the FAE. I wish I had a picture of it. It does not alter the wake in any way and perhaps the spray extends about 20 feet behind the boat at 25 mph.

I do not mean to sound like a sales person and I certainly get no kick back from FAE ;). But, of all the products I have purchased for my boats over the years, the FAE exceeded my expectations which is rare for me.

I do not want to over hyoe the product and then have some one who is disappointed after purchasing an FAE. But for the cost, I would go FAE over Silent Master. I would suggest that if you want a newer MC to sound like an older MC from 3 to 10 years ago, then get the Silent Master Mufflers. If you want a much quieter boat so you can hear your stereo better, and you want less CO behind the boat, get the FAE.

To give everyone another perspective, since the FAE keeps the exhaust always underwater, similar to your standard exhaust tips due when your boat is not moving, I would say our boat at speed with the FAE is slightly quieter than it was at idle with the standard exhaust tips.

Ole Miss Rebels
10-23-2008, 11:16 AM
Vision,

how does the fae mount to the existing factory tips (the ones with the internal baffle system)? Will i have to remove the old tips and re-install them or is there a tip in the fae kit that you moun onto the existing tip? can you provide a closeup picture of the attachment to the factory tip?

vision
10-23-2008, 02:14 PM
The FAE comes with its own tips. You simply remove the MC chrome and black flappers, bolt on the extended tips from FAE using the same holes, and the actual FAE attaches with high temp hosing to the tips. A bracket then attaches to your swim platform to stabilize the FAE.

If you have to fold your platform or remove your platform regularly, say to fit in your garage, then the FAE would be cumbersome as you would have to unbolt the platform bracket each time. Not a huge deal, but it would take 10 minutes.

larrymann
10-23-2008, 02:39 PM
from Larry Mann DC - Fresh Air Exhaust
At least up through 2008 FAE will fit onto all MC exhaust outlets by either screw or clamp. Nothing is changed or removed.
Here is what we say about stationary CO levels:
FAE has no impact upon boat CO levels while the boat is in neutral; however, there is an incredible reduction in CO levels once the boat is put into forward gear. Simply, with or without FAE, if your engine is idling for no specific purpose, turn off your engine.

Holman J.B.F
10-23-2008, 02:51 PM
larryman,
would you recommend installing a silent master first or would a FAE alone be enough?
My goal is i want that LY6 to be as quiet as possible.

larrymann
10-23-2008, 03:04 PM
It was reported to me by a boat manufacturer that they tested FAE against many of the mufflers on the market and that FAE was quieter than all they tested. In general our customers are very pleased with the level of noise reduction.
One thing I've wanted to test but haven't had the time to do yet is to remove the internal mufflers on a boat with FAE installed. The reasoning is that the internal mufflers reverberate, sending vibrations through the boat. If the internal mufflers are removed then the "noise energy" from the reverberation will be passed into the water, away from the boat.

gregte
10-23-2008, 11:01 PM
So, nobody here is running the silent master mufflers AND the baffled tips together?

vision
10-23-2008, 11:13 PM
Mike from Charlotte MC, JimN, or EngineNut will likely have the answer, but besides noise considerations, are there perhaps back pressure issues running both the Silent Master mufflers and baffled tips? Would the increase in back pressure could reduce performance or alter the efficiency of the catalytic convertor? My understanding was that if you order Silent Master mufflers MC uses the non-baffled exhaust tips.

Jesus_Freak
10-24-2008, 11:57 AM
Mike from Charlotte MC, JimN, or EngineNut will likely have the answer, but besides noise considerations, are there perhaps back pressure issues running both the Silent Master mufflers and baffled tips? Would the increase in back pressure could reduce performance or alter the efficiency of the catalytic convertor? My understanding was that if you order Silent Master mufflers MC uses the non-baffled exhaust tips.

Mike and I have confirmed that there are issues with back pressure w.r.t. using the baffled tips.

gwpowell
10-24-2008, 05:41 PM
Mike and I have confirmed that there are issues with back pressure w.r.t. using the baffled tips.

Are there issues with back pressure on the CAT or with Silent Master or both

gregte
10-25-2008, 08:53 AM
I'm also curious what the back pressure issues are. There are 600hp Corvettes with cats with way more restrictive exhausts than these boats without issues.

jess
10-25-2008, 10:39 AM
Engine selected is Indmar's Monsoon 350 with ETX/CATs. Note glassfiber muffler option is standard, silencing tips offered in combination:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z112/fbroen/mufflerANDsilencingtips.jpg

gregte
10-25-2008, 11:02 AM
Those STE tips look like the answer, l like the fact that they also turn down, that helps with noise also. Anybody know where to buy them?

JohnE
10-25-2008, 01:59 PM
Those STE tips look like the answer, l like the fact that they also turn down, that helps with noise also. Anybody know where to buy them?

Your local Malibu dealer I'd guess.....:rolleyes:

cbryan70
10-25-2008, 02:10 PM
Wouldnt those get in the way of folddown platforms?

vision
10-25-2008, 02:55 PM
I am no expert, but the level of back pressure influences what would be the correct fuel/air pressure at the manifold. So a corvette with more back pressure due to more muffling may have a significantly different ECM/fuel injection scheme and potentially even different cams and riser. So you could probably use the combination of mufflers and baffled tips, but you may need to reprogram the ECM/Fuel injector. Again, I am just speculating and I am not a mechanic.

I was on an inboard with turned down baffled tips several years ago and it was noticeably louder than my 05 X2 with silent master mufflers and normal flapper tips. But I do not know what motor or muffler setup was in the boat. It was not an MC.

Jesus_Freak
10-26-2008, 08:28 AM
I am no expert, but the level of back pressure influences what would be the correct fuel/air pressure at the manifold. So a corvette with more back pressure due to more muffling may have a significantly different ECM/fuel injection scheme and potentially even different cams and riser. So you could probably use the combination of mufflers and baffled tips, but you may need to reprogram the ECM/Fuel injector. Again, I am just speculating and I am not a mechanic.

Yes, to some extent, there is a tuning potential. Mike has discussed this on some related thread (chrome exhaust tips?), and he is the expert on this. While an individual's idea of "significant" is probably relative, I personally would not classify the fuel map and riser change with and without backpressure to be significant. The amount of pressure communication between the exhaust and intake is minimal (for a 4-cycle). The cam might be a bigger deal in order to manage this communication.

EDIT: Mike is AN expert on this, and the one I know the best. JimN and TRBenj are two others that come to mind as well.

André
11-11-2008, 08:09 PM
Wow!
17 minutes and that porn pix is still up.
Wonder how long it would take to if it was a Malibu pix?;)

TMCNo1
11-11-2008, 08:13 PM
Wow!
17 minutes and that porn pix is still up.
Wonder how long it would take to if it was a Malibu pix?


Looks like the moderators are on strike, protesting or out hunting for Obama Inaugration tickets or something!:confused::rolleyes::(:o

mbpd312
11-11-2008, 08:45 PM
nice work guys..

mbpd312
11-11-2008, 08:45 PM
make that an hour now

Storm34
11-11-2008, 11:15 PM
Thats ridiculous... that doesn't look like MC exhaust?

Waterski-Marcoisland
11-11-2008, 11:36 PM
I have a silent master that I will sell, its off a 04 MCX Xstar should fit just about all applications as its standard

Holman J.B.F
11-12-2008, 02:41 AM
it needs a FAE...

MYMC
11-12-2008, 10:09 AM
I'm also curious what the back pressure issues are. There are 600hp Corvettes with cats with way more restrictive exhausts than these boats without issues.
Not really...how many Corvettes do you know pushing water through the muffler at the same time as expanding gases?

MYMC
11-12-2008, 10:16 AM
This horse has been beat to death here for a couple years now...I have tested all this stuff repeatedly and the results are always the same...more mufflers/restrictions = less power.

Do the CATS rob HP? Sure they do...speaking in broadest terms. An engine is an air pump, any changes effect the output...the system has to be tuned for the change and every once in a while you are tuning to to get back to square one.

Ask yourself...if mufflers, CATS etc...make more power then why don't racing engines run them?

Ole Miss Rebels
11-12-2008, 01:19 PM
This horse has been beat to death here for a couple years now...I have tested all this stuff repeatedly and the results are always the same...more mufflers/restrictions = less power.

Do the CATS rob HP? Sure they do...speaking in broadest terms. An engine is an air pump, any changes effect the output...the system has to be tuned for the change and every once in a while you are tuning to to get back to square one.

Ask yourself...if mufflers, CATS etc...make more power then why don't racing engines run them?

that makes sense to me, mike. my question i'm struggling with is whether to leave my 08 xstar with L18 as is ( no muffloers and baffled tips) or to remove the baffled tips and add the straight (smaller diameter) tips and the dual silent master mufflers that MC sent me. thanks again for helping me make a decision. also, clouding my decision is whether to leave my boat as is (straight pipes with baffled tips) and just add an FAE. my boat is really loud as it is now and all i keep hearing is how much quieter the boat will be plus how much more power i will have with the straight tips and the dual mufflers. eric at OJ said that the xstar with L18 used to have a 22 pitch prop but now he has to have a 15.5 pitch prop to get them to perform like they used to. what is robbing all of that power? is it the baffled tips? if so they must really be a restrictive component. thanks mike, i hope you can make sense of it for me as swapping the tips is not going to be easy and there is the high liklihood of gelcoat damage by doing so.

acornellier
11-12-2008, 01:21 PM
Is anyone aware of the new rubber flap exhaust tips being fitted to the new 08 MC's. I have just received my new X7 and it is significantly noisier than the 07 exhaust tips which had fixed chrome covers.

Why did MC make this change? Or is it something in the exhaust itself that has been modified?

You yanks may not yet be aware of this change being winter and all. Down here in sunny Queensland Australia we are carving it up. The temp is 75 - 82 degrees every day and the water is 73 degrees and glassy.:)
My 07 X-2SS has the chrome,so does my nieghbors 08 X-2.Mine seem to be quiet compared to other boats on the lake.

MYMC
11-12-2008, 01:29 PM
that makes sense to me, mike. my question i'm struggling with is whether to leave my 08 xstar with L18 as is ( no muffloers and baffled tips) or to remove the baffled tips and add the straight (smaller diameter) tips and the dual silent master mufflers that MC sent me. thanks again for helping me make a decision. also, clouding my decision is whether to leave my boat as is (straight pipes with baffled tips) and just add an FAE. my boat is really loud as it is now and all i keep hearing is how much quieter the boat will be plus how much more power i will have with the straight tips and the dual mufflers. eric at OJ said that the xstar with L18 used to have a 22 pitch prop but now he has to have a 15.5 pitch prop to get them to perform like they used to. what is robbing all of that power? is it the baffled tips? if so they must really be a restrictive component. thanks mike, i hope you can make sense of it for me as swapping the tips is not going to be easy and there is the high liklihood of gelcoat damage by doing so.
I would add the mufflers and install the 2009 outlets...

Lots of things are contributing to the performance of the boats...emissions, weight, running surface and packaging are the biggies that come to mind. There is too much heat under the sun pad, the boat is heavy and very wet...add to that a small exhaust system that is less than optimal and you can see where all this is headed. If you think this is bad news wait till next year when the L-18 goes away for good and is replaced by an LY6 with a hair dryer!

X-Aggie
11-12-2008, 01:46 PM
Ugh Houston heat/humidity plus the horrible heating tendancy of whatever screw type blower they will undoubtedly use = FTL

Ole Miss Rebels
11-12-2008, 01:52 PM
I would add the mufflers and install the 2009 outlets...

Lots of things are contributing to the performance of the boats...emissions, weight, running surface and packaging are the biggies that come to mind. There is too much heat under the sun pad, the boat is heavy and very wet...add to that a small exhaust system that is less than optimal and you can see where all this is headed. If you think this is bad news wait till next year when the L-18 goes away for good and is replaced by an LY6 with a hair dryer!

thanks mike, i am going to follow your advice. i have two new, short, stubby mufflers. the mufflers are 4" on the engine side and reduce down to 3 1/2 inches on the transome side. i also have two new tips with no internals. the new tips are 3 1/2" as opposed to the original 4" tips with the internals. would these smaller 3 1/2" ID tips be the 09 tips you are referring to? are these the correct mufflers? thanks, if i have the correct parts i will take my boat to a dealership and have them put on. i just want to make sure that the parts i ordered are indeed the best option to quieten my boat and to increase the power. thanks again. i am really glad i have the L18, i just want to maximize the performance and minimize the noise level.

gwpowell
11-12-2008, 04:17 PM
Mike, a few guys down here in Australia are putting in cross-over exhausts to quieten their boats.
You are probably aware of this but for the benefit of all.....the pipes coming off the exhaust manifolds join together behind the motor above the shaft then split again to go out the tips.
Everyone who has done this has marveled at how much quieter their boats are and how much more power they have. I am led to believe the reduction in noise is due to the dampening effect of the competing pulses from each side of the motor (Equalization - or something like that) and the increased power is because there is no restriction of exhaust Gasses.

I imagine this is a similar effect to the Nautique single large exhaust - at a guess.
Maybe you could shed some informed light on this.

Thanks

MYMC
11-12-2008, 05:18 PM
Mike, a few guys down here in Australia are putting in cross-over exhausts to quieten their boats.
You are probably aware of this but for the benefit of all.....the pipes coming off the exhaust manifolds join together behind the motor above the shaft then split again to go out the tips.
Everyone who has done this has marveled at how much quieter their boats are and how much more power they have. I am led to believe the reduction in noise is due to the dampening effect of the competing pulses from each side of the motor (Equalization - or something like that) and the increased power is because there is no restriction of exhaust Gasses.

I imagine this is a similar effect to the Nautique single large exhaust - at a guess.
Maybe you could shed some informed light on this.

Thanks
Crossovers are a great idea for engines that operate in this RPM range. They work by balancing the pulses from the left and right banks...and yes there is some added benefit in that the exhaust note is quieter. If it can be fabricated to fit by all means do it...the injection system on the newer boats with the O2 sensors should be able to make the minor fuel adjustments needed. I think the Nautique system had this idea at the core, but I do not know if the diameters were correct.

Back in the day I built a 402CID engine for a guy's 1965 Corvette...it was a side pipe car and he kept wanting more power, but there was no way to add a crossover to the factory side pipes and have any ground clearance on a lowered car. I remembered back in the 60's racers used 180 degree headers so that is what we built for the car! If you have never heard a V8 Chevy with 180 headers it is wild...like two VW's on steroids...this will give you an idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZTbR6C6Lw

Jesus_Freak
11-13-2008, 01:20 PM
Crossovers are a great idea for engines that operate in this RPM range. They work by balancing the pulses from the left and right banks...

General curiosity here...I know sometimes two-strokes use tuning/resonance to help take advantage of exhaust pulsation. I assume that can be done also, but to a lesser extent, in four-strokes?.?.? You mentioned a specific RPM window; can you expand this concept more?

Sodar
11-13-2008, 01:24 PM
Mike, a few guys down here in Australia are putting in cross-over exhausts to quieten their boats.
You are probably aware of this but for the benefit of all.....the pipes coming off the exhaust manifolds join together behind the motor above the shaft then split again to go out the tips.
Everyone who has done this has marveled at how much quieter their boats are and how much more power they have. I am led to believe the reduction in noise is due to the dampening effect of the competing pulses from each side of the motor (Equalization - or something like that) and the increased power is because there is no restriction of exhaust Gasses.

I imagine this is a similar effect to the Nautique single large exhaust - at a guess.
Maybe you could shed some informed light on this.

Thanks

Where would you find something like this? I am trying to think of all the fiberglass exhaust fittings I have seen in my life, but I cannot think of a time I have seen a crossover like you are describing....

TMCNo1
11-13-2008, 02:09 PM
Where would you find something like this? I am trying to think of all the fiberglass exhaust fittings I have seen in my life, but I cannot think of a time I have seen a crossover like you are describing....

They wouldn't be fiberglass, but a good local muffler shop using Stainless Steel to construct a H/crossover pipe in one of many arrangements,
42113

42114

42115

MYMC
11-13-2008, 02:32 PM
General curiosity here...I know sometimes two-strokes use tuning/resonance to help take advantage of exhaust pulsation. I assume that can be done also, but to a lesser extent, in four-strokes?.?.? You mentioned a specific RPM window; can you expand this concept more?
Four strokes use it as well...tuned induction.
take a look at the intake runners on this Ferrari engine, the length of the runner uses sound to help "supercharge" the engine. On an old L98 Corvette engine that I built for an autocross racer we were seeing VE of 125% due to the long intake runners. The draw back is that these long runners do not breath well in high RPM applications. Look at an MCX manifold and it would appear to be a "tuned length" runner application...don't unbolt it and look inside...you'll be disappointed.

Exhaust is tuned the same way...step headers, reversion cones etc...the system must be tuned to the application...long small diameter tubes tend to help low end torque for instance.

The sad part of all this is that there is a lot of power to be made in a tuned (entry to exit) power plant, but no one in the ski boat industry is doing it...

gregte
11-13-2008, 09:23 PM
I don't care about making more power out of my MCX350, it has more than I'll ever need now, I just want to quiet the dam thing down. I've talked to Mastercraft and they have no answers for me, that is unacceptable IMO. Does anybody here know who makes the fiberglass crossover muffler that goes above the transmission? That may be a good way to go. I remember a later model Supra I looked at once had the crossover system also.

vision
11-13-2008, 09:53 PM
I don't care about making more power out of my MCX350, it has more than I'll ever need now, I just want to quiet the dam thing down. I've talked to Mastercraft and they have no answers for me, that is unacceptable IMO. Does anybody here know who makes the fiberglass crossover muffler that goes above the transmission? That may be a good way to go. I remember a later model Supra I looked at once had the crossover system also.

I would certainly look at the Fresh Air Exhaust. Worked great for my MCX.

JohnE
11-14-2008, 09:06 AM
I don't care about making more power out of my MCX350, it has more than I'll ever need now, I just want to quiet the dam thing down. I've talked to Mastercraft and they have no answers for me, that is unacceptable IMO. Does anybody here know who makes the fiberglass crossover muffler that goes above the transmission? That may be a good way to go. I remember a later model Supra I looked at once had the crossover system also.

Why don't you just add the mufflers and gut the tips?

gregte
11-14-2008, 09:45 AM
I have the Silent Master mufflers with the open tips now, it is too loud. I guess I need to find a pair of un-gutted tips and run them both. Anybody have a set?

X-Aggie
11-15-2008, 12:49 PM
Four strokes use it as well...tuned induction.
take a look at the intake runners on this Ferrari engine, the length of the runner uses sound to help "supercharge" the engine. On an old L98 Corvette engine that I built for an autocross racer we were seeing VE of 125% due to the long intake runners. The draw back is that these long runners do not breath well in high RPM applications. Look at an MCX manifold and it would appear to be a "tuned length" runner application...don't unbolt it and look inside...you'll be disappointed.

Exhaust is tuned the same way...step headers, reversion cones etc...the system must be tuned to the application...long small diameter tubes tend to help low end torque for instance.

The sad part of all this is that there is a lot of power to be made in a tuned (entry to exit) power plant, but no one in the ski boat industry is doing it...


WOW. I was pretty sure you were spent telling me how I could get my L-18 X-Star to run 53 but now you lay this on me. I've got a 364 HP N/A '98 4V Cobra, and I was pretty sure I've got all there is out of the thing. I'm pretty sure I could send it to you and the thing would come back 400+. You sir continue to astound me. 125% in an L98 WOW!

MYMC
11-17-2008, 09:16 AM
WOW. I was pretty sure you were spent telling me how I could get my L-18 X-Star to run 53 but now you lay this on me. I've got a 364 HP N/A '98 4V Cobra, and I was pretty sure I've got all there is out of the thing. I'm pretty sure I could send it to you and the thing would come back 400+. You sir continue to astound me. 125% in an L98 WOW!
One of the first engine builders I ever worked for (real engine builder...made his own pistons, and hardened metal using cyanide out back) always told me that 1.5hp per inch was a lazy goal and any good endurance engine should be good for 2hp per inch. Things change though...2 is good but a push rod V8 can make 2.25 and still run 600 miles.

Jesus_Freak
11-17-2008, 12:36 PM
...On an old L98 Corvette engine that I built for an autocross racer we were seeing VE of 125% due to the long intake runners. The draw back is that these long runners do not breath well in high RPM applications. ...


125%? Wow. Over what RPM range at WOT did you achieve that?

MYMC
11-17-2008, 12:53 PM
125%? Wow. Over what RPM range at WOT did you achieve that?
I believe (without digging up dyno sheets) that it was 2800 to 3200...obviously right over the torque peak. L-98's 21" long runners did a great job of building torque...if you wanted to turn some RPM you could go to larger tubes but the easier way was to siamese them just after the plenum.

dwhegler
11-19-2008, 09:02 AM
I have a mid-year (Apr prod I think) 08 X-15 MCX so how do I know if I have silent master? The tips are chrome but it looks rubber around it and inside. I would like mine to be a little louder. We have loud boats on our lake. I don't want it to be like straight pipe but sound a little meatier. It is nice in the rear of the boat but soon as you are 50FT it has no sound at all. I saw a 06 X-15 at the dealer at the time and it had an exhaust. Mine has the cats and it just looks like straight pipe all the way out. I don't have a heater option installed.

JohnE
11-19-2008, 11:00 AM
I have a mid-year (Apr prod I think) 08 X-15 MCX so how do I know if I have silent master? The tips are chrome but it looks rubber around it and inside. I would like mine to be a little louder. We have loud boats on our lake. I don't want it to be like straight pipe but sound a little meatier. It is nice in the rear of the boat but soon as you are 50FT it has no sound at all. I saw a 06 X-15 at the dealer at the time and it had an exhaust. Mine has the cats and it just looks like straight pipe all the way out. I don't have a heater option installed.


I don't know exactly where the silent master mufflers sit. But with an April production date I'd bet you have the mufflers. Mike can tell you for sure.

vision
11-19-2008, 01:41 PM
You can not miss them. Silent Master is a large single or double black muffler that will be just behind the motor and fill much of the space. If you do not have mufflers, you will just have black rubber hoses connecting the catalytic convertor to your through hull flaps.

dwhegler
11-19-2008, 01:53 PM
Ok. I have straight pipe from the cats to the flaps. So, why is mine not loud? Those flaps? I know that cats will lessen noise.

vision
11-19-2008, 03:34 PM
Ok. I have straight pipe from the cats to the flaps. So, why is mine not loud? Those flaps? I know that cats will lessen noise.

I suspect noise is in the ear of the beholder. My MCX with the baffled tips and flaps was fine sitting at idle and the exhaust was under water. But at 25 mph, the noise in the boat was bad, and at 70 feet behind the boat it was worse. Much louder than my last MCX which had Silent Masters.

With the FAE, it is amazing how much easier it is to carry on a conversation in the boat and listen to music. My neighbors also probably enjoy that at 7 am our boat is much quieter.

MYMC
11-19-2008, 03:40 PM
Without using a Db meter this "noise" issue is subjective...what is considered loud by some may be quiet to others. Adding to this is personal sensitivity to "rumble" or low frequency & vibration.

While many think that the 2007 & some 2008 boats were loud others do not...

gregte
05-24-2009, 11:34 PM
Ok, so I skied behind my boat for the first time today. I can not believe how loud it is. I pulled up the rear floor and saw that the boat has Ultra Marine mufflers, NOT the SilentMaster mufflers I was told it had. Maybe that's the issue? Does anybody have any experience with the Ultra Marine brand? I just don't want to replace them with the SilentMaster and find they're essentially the same.

phickman
05-24-2009, 11:46 PM
I find this thread funny nearing hiliarious. Don't get mad at me for saying that many people with inboard v-8 boats tend to like the noise, part of the mystique and uniqueness versus having an inboard/outboard. Other brands even have a captain's call system in place. You are lucky to have top brand boat and surely the envy of some others on your lake or river. Some rumble from your engine is manly and should feed your ego. I always thought the flapper noise was just part of a inboard ski boat and what made it darn cool.

No harm or insults here, just scratching my head on this one.:confused:

gregte
05-25-2009, 12:20 AM
The truly funny thing is that people don't understand the importance of quiet boats on small ponds. What the hell is MC thinking?!!! We are surrounded by tree hugging liberals in kayaks that want to do everything they can to get rid of high powered ski boats on their precious "golden ponds". Make them quiet or risk being able to use them at all.

mccobmd
05-25-2009, 01:13 AM
I find this thread funny nearing hiliarious. Don't get mad at me for saying that many people with inboard v-8 boats tend to like the noise, part of the mystique and uniqueness versus having an inboard/outboard. Other brands even have a captain's call system in place. You are lucky to have top brand boat and surely the envy of some others on your lake or river. Some rumble from your engine is manly and should feed your ego. I always thought the flapper noise was just part of a inboard ski boat and what made it darn cool.

No harm or insults here, just scratching my head on this one.:confused:

I know what you mean, but then again in Oklahoma no one's boat can be heard is someone's truck is running.

gwpowell
05-25-2009, 06:42 AM
I find this thread funny nearing hiliarious. Don't get mad at me for saying that many people with inboard v-8 boats tend to like the noise, part of the mystique and uniqueness versus having an inboard/outboard. Other brands even have a captain's call system in place. You are lucky to have top brand boat and surely the envy of some others on your lake or river. Some rumble from your engine is manly and should feed your ego. I always thought the flapper noise was just part of a inboard ski boat and what made it darn cool.

No harm or insults here, just scratching my head on this one.:confused:

Yeah, I'm lucky I worked hard to earn the serious money it takes to purchase a MC and I'm lucky I'm the envy of everyone on the lake until they hear how bloody load it is. Then they laugh at me for paying so much for a boat that I then had to spend significant time and money on to modify just to meet the local noise restrictions on our river. It first tested at 78Db. Our limit is 75Db, so I was kicked off the river the first time I placed it in the water. Just because we chose to purchase a V8 inboard does not mean we are redneck speed lovin' deaf petrol heads. MC promised me it would meet the very stringent European noise restrictions at 73Db. Well it obviously did not. Wake up MC a lot of people are not happy.

gwpowell
05-25-2009, 06:43 AM
The truly funny thing is that people don't understand the importance of quiet boats on small ponds. What the hell is MC thinking?!!! We are surrounded by tree hugging liberals in kayaks that want to do everything they can to get rid of high powered ski boats on their precious "golden ponds". Make them quiet or risk being able to use them at all.

Here here!!!!

gwpowell
05-25-2009, 06:51 AM
Ok, so I skied behind my boat for the first time today. I can not believe how loud it is. I pulled up the rear floor and saw that the boat has Ultra Marine mufflers, NOT the SilentMaster mufflers I was told it had. Maybe that's the issue? Does anybody have any experience with the Ultra Marine brand? I just don't want to replace them with the SilentMaster and find they're essentially the same.

Spot on. I'm not sure if there is a difference between the advertised "Silent Master" or the "Ultra Marine" the boats are obviously being shipped with but no matter how subjective others may like to say noise is these boats are louder than the 07 models which came with baffles in the tips. Without doubt.... unequivocal... we measured them against each other with noise meters. I have to say Correct Craft have this all over MC. Their single pipe muffler and exhaust leaves MC for dead. Its such a shame their boats look like boats you would go to church in.

gregte
05-25-2009, 10:20 AM
GW, does your boat also have the Ultra Marine mufflers? They are physically a lot smaller in diameter than the Silent Master so I wonder if they are as effective. My boat had the mufflers installed by the dealer after the fact, I figured they were just pulling a fast one trying to save $ and install the Ultra instead of the Silent. If MC is shipping the boats from the factory with the Ultras, that's a different story.

gwpowell
05-25-2009, 06:23 PM
Yes my boat came with the "Ultra Marine Mufflers". I'm not sure why MC changed from the "Silent Master". Probably cost cutting. I would be interested to know the difference in noise reduction if any between the two.

Ole Miss Rebels
05-25-2009, 06:48 PM
my 08 xstar was retro-fitted with two small "in-line" mufflers and straight tips as opposed to the original straight pipes exhaust that had the tips with internals in them. so are these the Ultra mufflers y'all are talking about or does silent-master make a small "in-line" muffler (as opposed to the one, large common muffler (that blocked changing the impellor) that both risers fed in to and had two lines out going to the tips?

fbroen
05-25-2009, 07:34 PM
We have an 08 X-Star with MCX. We had dealer swap out the "muffled" flapper tips with straight thru tips and the in-line mufflers. The boat is better, but still pathetically loud.

Can't carry on a conversation w/o yelling... Boy do I miss our old 205v X2 with the transverse mounted muffler.

Is FAE the only option to improve on this situation? We run in places where there is debris sometimes and I am not too crazy about having pipes stick down in the water.

Love the boat, but am seriously thinking CC next time to get back to reasonable sound levels. It just ruins a lot of the experience with the newer MCs.

gwpowell
05-25-2009, 08:32 PM
I have tried everything, including the FAE.

Here is my solution.
I would run with the FAE if you are not critical about the wake. The FAE does affect the wake if you are absolutely critical like we are. By that I mean we foot and the FAE does create a little more turbulence in the middle of the wake. But as far as sound reduction goes the FAE is absolutely brilliant.

As I said the small amount of extra turbulence created was not to our liking, so I searched for another answer. Here is what I came up with:
We moved the "Ultra Marine" Mufflers towards the rear of the boat as close to the outlets at the transom as possible, this gave us enough room to rotate these 90 Degrees so the intake ends faced each other. We then manufactured a SS cross over pipe and fited it between the motor ant the mufflers. We also took this one step further and crossed over the pipes again....Taking the FAE idea we created a tail pipe which joins the two exhaust outlets from the transom and then redirects the exhaust gas down towards the water (not actually into the water like the FAE).

The cumulative effect of these two modifications dropped the sound reading from 78Db to 71Db, a significant reduction. However the FAE dropped the noise to 67Db which as I said is brilliant. You could hardly hear the boat motor at all.

We did also lose 1 MPH at WOT

My boat is getting serviced at the moment but when I get it back I will post some pics.

vision
05-25-2009, 09:02 PM
I agree with gwpowell.

The FAE is the best solution if you are boarding. Our 2008 X-star with an MCX and baffled tips but no muffler was horribly loud compared to our 2005 X2 with SIlent Master mufflers. The FAE resolved this issue and our X-star is now much quieter than our previous X2. It still has a guttural noise but now you can talk in the boat. It is particularly more quiet at 70 feet behind the boat. Best stereo upgrade I have purchased. Well worth its cost.

gregte
05-26-2009, 09:26 AM
Does the FAE have an effect on short line slalom skiers?

gwpowell
05-26-2009, 05:54 PM
I'm not a short line slalom skier so I didn't actually try it, but it did produce a small rooster tail which created a lump in the center of the wake close to the boat. I would think this would make a difference on short line.

fbroen
05-26-2009, 07:09 PM
Judging from the pics of the systems on the FAE page, it looks as though the 3.5" tubes coming out from the two exhaust tips basically meet up in one 3.5" tube.

Is this ultimately not as restrictive as baffled tips for back pressure?

That is, how does it differ from what Mailbu does when the offer CAT boats with mufflers AND baffled tips?

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z112/fbroen/mufflerANDsilencingtips.jpg

gwpowell
05-26-2009, 07:20 PM
The Malibu tips have silencers built in and work very well. As did the old MC tips on the 07 models. (Why MC stopped making them is anyone's guess). The FAE does join the two exhausts and then pushes the exhaust below the water level to muffle the sound. How much back pressure this creates I do not know but it did not seem to impede performance in any significant way.
I have a friend with a BU with a hammerhead 400 motor who just put these Malibu turn down tips on. It reduced the noise significantly.

fbroen
05-26-2009, 07:22 PM
The inline mufflers with the "Malibu" tips would be nice.

Apparently, Malibu deems the back pressure issue ok as they ship from factory ETX/CATs with mufflers AND baffled tips.

So why not on an MCX?

gwpowell
05-26-2009, 07:48 PM
Try this site. These appear to be the exact same tips as Malibu.

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=756

Tomsinamerica
05-28-2009, 10:09 PM
After reading this it's made me want to really quieten down my '08 X2 with an MCX. I seem to remember the guy from Fresh air exhaust posted on here and was lambasted by the regulars - I'm not sure whether that was him as a person or his product.

So - my question is... What is the downside to the FAE, will it screw up my boat in any way? From what I can see, it bolts on and should i hit anything with it... it should come loose? (all the malibu wedge posts scared me!)

Anyone got any other genius ideas for similar money which will quieten the boat down so I don't have to spend more money on another set of tower speakers and an amp?

Many Thanks,
Tom

gregte
05-28-2009, 10:19 PM
The Malibu turn down tips seem like the answer.

gwpowell
06-01-2009, 04:50 AM
Does anyone know where to get these exhaust tips. These were on our 2007 - 197 MCX, our 2008 - 197 MCX had the inline mufflers and is much louder than the 2007 with these exhaust tips.

I think they are pretty much the same as the BU turn down tips with the built in baffles.

I have seen these after market on some website, but I cant find it again.

vision
06-01-2009, 03:36 PM
Tom,

I have had an FAE on my 2008 MCX for the last year. Zero problems, amazingly quieter, easy to install. I have never even needed to adjust or tighten it since installing and we have over 150 hours with the FAE in use.

It reportedly will decrease your top end by 1 to 2 mph. Since I just about never go above 35 mph, and we wakeboard 80% of the time and no one ever skis any more, a loss of top end is meaningless to me. I can tell no difference in hole shot or fuel efficiency.

If you regularly drop your platform, then the FAE is not a solution for you as it bolts to the platform.

I do not know where you are in the southeast, but we ride in NC at Lake Gaston and you are welcome to come listen to our boat in the water if you are nearby.

Tomsinamerica
06-01-2009, 03:55 PM
vision,

I may take you up on that... I ride at Jordan and live near durham, are you riding this week as I'm flying back to England on Sunday.

FAE does seem to be the logically most effective noise reducer. I spent a lot of time surfing yesterday because jordan was oddly enough full of idiots and my ears were actually ringing because of the noise. I'm pretty keen to lower the noise rather than having tinnitus in a few years.

vision
06-01-2009, 06:11 PM
I will likely ride Saturday up at Gaston.

I sent you PM. Just fire me an email or call me. You can listen to our boat and ride behind it to give you an idea of the noise.

gwpowell
06-01-2009, 06:36 PM
The FAE definitely reduces noise significantly.

It makes me wonder why the boat manufacturers don't place the exhaust outlets under the hull
If the outlets came through the hull in a rearward facing direction then the venturi effect of the water passing them would suck the exhaust and help eliminate back pressure whilst the water would muffle the sound.

gwpowell
06-01-2009, 06:49 PM
This is the sort of thing I am talking about. Although these are designed to be fitted to the side of the boat. Why not fit them under the hull?

Hollywood
06-02-2009, 10:28 AM
I would think the pressure underwater would make it difficult to start the engine, among many other issues.

gregte
06-02-2009, 04:02 PM
GW, I ordered a set of the Malibu turn-down tips for my boat, I'll let you know how they work in a couple weeks.

Sodar
06-02-2009, 04:08 PM
I would think you could get the 2007 style exhaust tips from any of the dealers on the board. Some have had them fail and the MC cover plate fall off. I have been fortunate and have had no issues.

454Prostar190
06-02-2009, 04:19 PM
I would think you could get the 2007 style exhaust tips from any of the dealers on the board. Some have had them fail and the MC cover plate fall off. I have been fortunate and have had no issues.

That's a sweet shot of the back of your boat. I like the white.

Sodar
06-02-2009, 04:20 PM
That's a sweet shot of the back of your boat. I like the white.

Thanks!

I like it more now, with the underwater lights! :cool:

454Prostar190
06-02-2009, 05:14 PM
Thanks!

I like it more now, with the underwater lights! :cool:

I've looked at your pictures of your boat before. Personally, everything that I drive is white with the exception of my red and white S and S. You're color scheme just works for me. It's clean, good lines and it's one of those boats that you can spot in the water from a long way off!
Just my opinion..... and some props! lol

gwpowell
06-02-2009, 08:15 PM
I would think the pressure underwater would make it difficult to start the engine, among many other issues.

The existing outlets are under water when the boat starts.

gregte
06-05-2009, 09:47 PM
Well, I tried a set of the Malibu style tips from Bakes marine and they ARE the answer! I did make a modification to them though, they have six 1/4" holes drilled in the outer ring, I drilled them out to 3/8" to improve the flow and and help make sure water didn't back up. The boat is now as quiet as a Nautique and I noticed no loss of accelaration. I have not tested top speed, I've never run top speed in my boat. We ran the boat pretty hard up and down the pond several times and the engine temp never went over 160. The exhaust manifolds were hot to the touch but I don't think any more so than before, you could touch them with your hand but not hold it on them. Now I can finally ski without pissing off my neigbors :)

fbroen
06-05-2009, 10:33 PM
Thank you for the report! Sounds very promising. To be clear, you have the inline mufflers as well?

Mine showed up today. Have not had a chance to install them yet.

Did you have any issues getting the other ones off? Any tricks to it?

gregte
06-05-2009, 10:42 PM
Yes it has the Ultra Marine inline mufflers also. I can't stress enough how happy I am with this set up. It's like a totally different boat. The installation was easy, you can get to the hose clamps by reaching behind the gas tank. The tips came off easy, I'll bet the whole swap didn't take more than an hour.

fbroen
06-05-2009, 10:44 PM
Thank you for clarification. I am super excited to get this done.

fbroen
06-15-2009, 10:05 PM
Got them on and tested. Significantly quieter.

Can actually converse without yelling, listen to the stereo, use the back seat... Monumentally quieter behind boat also.

Super stoked.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z112/fbroen/new_tips.jpg

fbroen
06-15-2009, 10:09 PM
Gregte -- I did not drill out the holes, yet.

Any concern about rusting and/or delamination of chrome?

gregte
06-16-2009, 09:11 AM
They are polished stainless, not chrome. so rusting is not an issue. You will probably be fine without drilling the holes, I just figured since I am running both inline mufflers AND tips the added flow may help, just being a little over cautious I guess.

jdl xstar
06-16-2009, 10:04 AM
Show me your tips! ;)

48443

StuSX
07-25-2009, 04:08 PM
Heard real throaty sound while pulling the kids tubing today, and noticed one of my flaps like the post before me( chrome MC), is gone- saw that some failed on other posts too- looks like it's my turn.

Will the turn down tips work on a 07 CSX SS with the 6.0 Crusader? It was really loud before this- actually way too loud for me and especially my wife. Now it's ridiculous with the flap gone...

Any thoughts on best option? I'm still under warranty, so FAE is out, but if they need to reorder stuff anyway, I might be able to get the turn downs mentioned in this thread...

Thanks!

fbroen
05-03-2010, 11:06 PM
Any feedback on the new 'sideways' inline mufflers? Are they quieter than the straight online pairs?

Our '08 xstar mcx with the straight inline mufflers and the Malibu silencing tips is much quiter than it was stock (strainer tips only), but still louder than it could be.

Anyone tried the new style 'sideways' with silencing tips combo?

CottagerGreg
05-03-2010, 11:32 PM
fbroen- can you send me the link for the inline mufflers you mention... I know about the malibu tips... I wouldn't mind doing the same to my xstar

fbroen
05-03-2010, 11:54 PM
I am afraid that I don't have links, but I am referring to the ones used by the factory in, what, late '08 (straight) and beginning in, i think, '09 the ones with a 90 degree cannister look. The newer 'canister' ones look almost as if it is the good old transverse
muffler cut into a separate pair. Those are the ones I am curious about if they are quieter than the straight inline ones?

duckguy
05-04-2010, 11:26 AM
So fbroen, I assume the platform will not fold down now?

X-Aggie
05-04-2010, 12:57 PM
JD, did you have the exhaust recall and ECU reflash performed?

CottagerGreg
05-04-2010, 04:12 PM
What about just installing the in-line mufflers with my existing baffled tips?

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=289-3000

I can get some 3.5" tube off the cat to the muffler and then from the muffler to the tips.

I don't think it will have any adverse effects on performance or exhaust flow. I assume it will just muffle the sound..

fbroen
05-04-2010, 04:44 PM
"So fbroen, I assume the platform will not fold down now?"

Correct.

But I can converse with fellow passengers. :)

Ole Miss Rebels
05-04-2010, 06:30 PM
i was told to absolutely not add mufflers without putting on the straight tips. the tips with "internals" along with the in-mufflers would add too much back pressure.

fbroen
05-04-2010, 08:17 PM
100 hours and counting with the inlines and the Malibu silencing tips.

Honestly, I only care about "too much" backpressure to a point. The noise level was totally unacceptable the way it was. This combo makes it ok, but still a bit louder than the old transverse on prior boats.

And just like gregte, we drilled out the holes a tad on the Malibu tips to give them a bit more flow.

Oh, and we did do the inline mufflers coupled with no "internals" tips for a while last year. Still way loud, as can be read in posts by others earlier in this now rather lengthy thread.

I should point out that I don't know if the Malibu tips have less back pressure than the "strainer" style inners of the stock ones that shipped on our '08. We never ran those and the inlines.

fbroen
05-04-2010, 08:19 PM
Anyone with the new style factory mufflers?

Quieter?

Same?

Bueller?

X-Aggie
05-04-2010, 10:40 PM
What about just installing the in-line mufflers with my existing baffled tips?

MCX/LY6 Not that big a deal.

i was told to absolutely not add mufflers without putting on the straight tips. the tips with "internals" along with the in-mufflers would add too much back pressure.

Our boats w/L18 it's a no no. In fact the service notice calls for 4in straight out every where but the 45 degree steel bends.

CottagerGreg
05-04-2010, 11:21 PM
MCX/LY6 Not that big a deal.






so you think it will make a big enough difference to be worth my while/money?

X-Aggie
05-05-2010, 01:45 AM
I was speaking as far as the performance aspect. The difference your going to see adding exhaust restrictions in the MCX/LY6 seems to be neglible. As far as noise, of course it's going to quiet the boat down. As far as cost vs. results that's all subjective. I will say this, if the noise upsets you every time your in your new (read EXPENSIVE) boat, it's likely worth trying.

Jesus_Freak
05-05-2010, 12:46 PM
I did make a modification to them though, they have six 1/4" holes drilled in the outer ring, I drilled them out to 3/8" to improve the flow and and help make sure water didn't back up.

This modification more than doubled the flow area of the 6 outer holes, but I am wondering about the effect on total area. What is the diameter of the center hole?

fbroen
06-23-2010, 05:50 PM
Sorry, a bit late, but, diameter of the center outlet on the BU tips is a hair under an inch and 3/4.

chriscpmtmp
07-22-2010, 11:03 PM
Is this a mastercraft recommendation, or from another source?

i was told to absolutely not add mufflers without putting on the straight tips. the tips with "internals" along with the in-mufflers would add too much back pressure.

Jesus_Freak
07-28-2010, 01:23 PM
Sorry, a bit late, but, diameter of the center outlet on the BU tips is a hair under an inch and 3/4.

OK, thanks. So that means the effect of drilling out the 1/4" holes to 3/8" is only a 14% increase in total flow area. Interesting...

Wake2004
07-28-2010, 03:41 PM
When using the Bu tips how do you keep the water from flowing back into the engine when the engine is off? They do not have any flaps.

fbroen
07-29-2010, 10:04 AM
Gravity...

Ole Miss Rebels
07-29-2010, 02:33 PM
Is this a mastercraft recommendation, or from another source?

it came from the owner of my mastercraft dealership. where he got it from is unknown to me but he had been involved in helping me get my boat retro-fitted properly with the help of MC and Indmar so i trusted his advice. remember, however, i have the 8.1 litre engine and that could make a difference.

Wake2004
07-29-2010, 02:41 PM
Gravity...

Sometimes if I stop suddenly with lots of ballast on board the wake that crashes into my transom looks higher than the engine. Couldn't that find it's way into the engine?

fbroen
07-29-2010, 02:49 PM
Stock, we had the "internals" and no mufflers.

We then tried the MC recipe of in-line mufflers and no internals flapper tips. Still too loud.

So added the BU tips. 170 or so hours with that setup now.

It is still is louder than our good ole X2/205v with transverse muffler and flappers, but tolerable.

Anyone on here that has the new in-line mufflers with a "bump out" on the middle? I haven't had a chance to hear those in action.

Jesus_Freak
07-30-2010, 12:44 PM
Sometimes if I stop suddenly with lots of ballast on board the wake that crashes into my transom looks higher than the engine. Couldn't that find it's way into the engine?

Yes, the energy of a wave crashing into your transom can lift water. Estimate the speed of the wave hitting your transom, and figure 10" of water lift for every 5 MPH of wave speed.

Ole Miss Rebels
07-30-2010, 03:25 PM
Stock, we had the "internals" and no mufflers.

We then tried the MC recipe of in-line mufflers and no internals flapper tips. Still too loud.

So added the BU tips. 170 or so hours with that setup now.

It is still is louder than our good ole X2/205v with transverse muffler and flappers, but tolerable.

Anyone on here that has the new in-line mufflers with a "bump out" on the middle? I haven't had a chance to hear those in action.

what is a "bump out"? and middle of what?

fbroen
08-02-2010, 11:48 AM
I have seen a number of 2010s that have a stock muffler that basically looked like the in-line ones, but they have a bit of a T shape to them with a protrusion on the middle.

Almost as if you had taken an old-style transverse muffler and cut it in half and then glassed shut the cut and installed the two pieces separately as in-lines.

Those are the ones that I am curious about if they are quieter than the 2008-2009 in-lines.

Kinda like this for the shape:


in

| |
| |--
| |
| |--
| |

out

fbroen
08-02-2010, 11:54 AM
Ok, that shape only works in editor for some reason-- like this:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z112/fbroen/in-line.jpg

Ole Miss Rebels
08-02-2010, 12:26 PM
Ok, that shape only works in editor for some reason-- like this:

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z112/fbroen/in-line.jpg

interesting shape. i agree the original in-line mufflers were not much of an improvement over the system that had no muffler and tips with internals. my boat is still way loud with the dual in-line mufflers but they did take some of the high frequency out of the sound. so while it is still nearly as loud as before it is not as ear-piercing. still, i wish i had a stealth boat. i can do well without unnecessary noise.

Willski
10-11-2010, 11:36 AM
I would think you could get the 2007 style exhaust tips from any of the dealers on the board. Some have had them fail and the MC cover plate fall off. I have been fortunate and have had no issues.

I just lost one of my baffles yesterday.

Does anyone know if my boat can run this way? Do I risk getting water in? Checking with the dealer on availability, but can I use the boat in the meantime?

Holman J.B.F
10-11-2010, 12:52 PM
I have seen a number of 2010s that have a stock muffler that basically looked like the in-line ones, but they have a bit of a T shape to them with a protrusion on the middle.

Almost as if you had taken an old-style transverse muffler and cut it in half and then glassed shut the cut and installed the two pieces separately as in-lines.

Those are the ones that I am curious about if they are quieter than the 2008-2009 in-lines.

Kinda like this for the shape:


in

| |
| |--
| |
| |--
| |

out

had a 2008 x-star and now own a 2010,the new silencer is MUCH quieter ( don,t know about the 2009 mufflers)

ttu
10-11-2010, 12:57 PM
I just lost one of my baffles yesterday.

Does anyone know if my boat can run this way? Do I risk getting water in? Checking with the dealer on availability, but can I use the boat in the meantime?

lost my baffle about a month after buying the boat. i called the dealer and they said it was fine to fun it and they replaced it when i had the boat winterized. probably put on 30 hrs and had no problem.

does it look like this?

Willski
10-11-2010, 01:21 PM
Looks more like this...

Willski
10-11-2010, 01:26 PM
Or like this....it looks like mine doesn't have all of the holes yours does.
Sorry for the blurry pic.

Willski
10-12-2010, 09:20 AM
I also learned from the dealer that it is okay to run without. He contacted MC, and they noted that the center disc is pure decoration, nothing functional, although I think it sounds a little different.

starrski
03-26-2011, 07:48 PM
I find this noise issue frustrating, hilarious, and with no consistent solution.

My '08 X-14 sounds like my first inboard: a 1972 Correct Craft Ski Nautique stripped down tournament boat. In 1976, everyone in our ski club switched from "the only boat for a tournament skier" , to buying from an upstart called Mastercraft with this glittery stars and stripes motif because it was SILENT and we could start dawn patrol an hour earlier without waking neighbors. (It only took a few years and the Nautique was silent too.)

During the summer days when our lake is busy, no one cares about the engine noise. The neighbors prefer to complain about the choice of music of the wakeboarders. But let me start up with my new boat for a dawn patrol session, and now everyone knows I am on the lake (and immediately to check if I am cheating without a spotter.....) I wish I sounded like a MasterCraft instead of the open pipes of a Donze........ so I could be stealth and invisible again.

Even my dealer wasn't aware of the muffler change until I took them out on the water after they just finished water testing an '08 197 with the same setup and it had mufflers and was almost silent.

The dealer commented that when they first water tested my boat it was a little noisier than the previous year, but that they had not been in it on the water until after they did the repair of the tips required on the recall notice before they delivered it to me.

They had to check in the bilge to believe me that my boat has NO MUFFLERS. The dealer didn't even know the need to place an order for the "muffler option" since it was always a standard feature prior to '08.

Go figure. It is going to take a while to figure out the ETX/CAT engine. Noise is just one of the quirks. The problem is common to direct and V-drives, but the solutions may not be the same....

This noise issue is subjective to the user. Noise levels are not much different in the cockpit now than it was on my '97 prostar 205 or my '02 prostar 209. You can even prove this looking at some of the magazine boat test publications. The noise affects the beach. The problem is magnified when the water is flat, and if your lake is bounded by hills or cliffs. You should hear these boats roar and echo in the cliff canyons of Lake Powell during dawn patrol! (If we go really early, my friends insist on taking their Malibu Response so we don't wake the sleeping kids and lose our chance to flat water.)

The noise on our ski boats is just more proof that history repeats itself. They say trends often go full circle, so we have gone the full circle and throaty engine roar is again in fashion in this 40th year?

Willski
05-29-2011, 12:07 PM
Or like this....it looks like mine doesn't have all of the holes yours does.
Sorry for the blurry pic.

I noticed the difference between ttu's pic and mine is actually that I lost the MC plate and the next baffle. There is one more baffle behind it that is still there, but I'm not sure if I can run it this way or not short term.

Anyone know? My dealer originally told me to run without the medallion, but is not sure about running without the baffle with the holes in it.

mseller
05-30-2011, 04:56 PM
my 08 X45 previous owner decided that he didn't want the muffler option either. Mine had the black rubber flaps on the back and was straight piped back to the manifold. my boat sounded like a cigarette boat coming around the corner and I couldn't hear the stereo while riding. I recently put in the 2011 silent master mufflers and couldn't be happier. So much quieter and can hear the tower speakers clearly(an upgraded amp helped out too :))

93Prostar190
08-14-2011, 10:22 AM
x2 on the Silentmaster and Rubber Flaps .... my MCX 2008 PS214 sounds like it should and is quiet ... sometimes a bit too quiet but I prefer that over loud ....

Seriously, I need to be able to hear my tunes!

Peace.