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loeweb
03-04-2008, 12:36 PM
Just a question to answer the need peace of mind thread for myself. Is my boat alright or not? Post em up.

loeweb
03-04-2008, 12:44 PM
Here is the story to go along with it.

I need some help. I am not for sure if I F'd up my boat this winter. Long story short, I winterized using the following steps Drained block, pulled impeller, drained exhaust manifold, drained tranny cooler. Didn't antifreeze b/c I thought there was a chance that I'd be back out before it got stupid cold. I was wrong. Went to check on the boat this weekend and noticed that a freeze plug was popped out on one side but not the other and this is very worrysome. Soooo... Is there any way to check if the block is cracked before starting it up? Again I need some peace of mind and reassurance that I didn't done anything harmful to my third child!

Monte
03-04-2008, 12:51 PM
Might as well fix it now if it is broken. It is a heck of a lot easier to sell a boat that has no problems or question marks around it. Running is a good thing. If you decide to sell now with the engine's questionable soundness you are going to have to take a lot less than it will probably cost to repair it. You are going to have to disclose the problem in your ad to sell it. That will mean lower offers and difficult discussions..

flipper
03-04-2008, 12:52 PM
Absolute worst case, fix it. I've had to replace the engine in mine twice. I wouldn't sell it if there is something really wrong with it if you like the boat.

stuartmcnair
03-04-2008, 12:54 PM
I don't think dealers should be allowed to respond to this poll....:D

Sodar
03-04-2008, 12:55 PM
Take it to the dealership and get the real story. You are not going to get price of mind here!

flipper
03-04-2008, 12:57 PM
Take it to the dealership and get the real story. You are not going to get price of mind here!

That too, we can all guess and tell our stories, but with out looking and knowing, doesn't really help you at all.

Sodar
03-04-2008, 01:10 PM
Take it to the dealership and get the real story. You are not going to get price of mind here!

Woops... typed on my iphone... sorry for the misspellings

Seriously though. Take it to the dealer and find out. You are going to get varying opinions here that are all based upon speculation. Get it looked at by a pro and find out exactly what has happened...

Here is my opinion. The boat is trashed and you should sell it to me for $1000 and walk away from it. I hope this puts your mind at ease! :D

loeweb
03-04-2008, 01:48 PM
Shot or not I think I'll keep it around. How much am I looking at to replace the motor?

wakeX2wake
03-04-2008, 01:54 PM
ok you're not going to like this but I replace a LT1 in my '93 Maristar for around $8K... dealership is going to cost more... I had a friend of the family put it in and hook it up and I had the dealership dial everything in and I'm thinking it was around $8k... we bought a refurbished block and everything and I'm telling you the boat runs better now than before... if it weren't for filling up the extra fat sacks in the Maristar and the tower speakers on my x2 I would still be rocking the teal and pink Maristar

TMCNo1
03-04-2008, 01:55 PM
Let me make you a deal on a slightly waxed, questionably clean 1989 PS190 and 1988 Chevrolet Astro Van, including everything extra I have for it. You'll then have your '88 for spare parts if you ever need them.

loeweb
03-04-2008, 02:16 PM
Let me make you a deal on a slightly waxed, questionably clean 1989 PS190 and 1988 Chevrolet Astro Van, including everything extra I have for it. You'll then have your '88 for spare parts if you ever need them.

I may have agreed but I need to see a price #1.

:D

flipper
03-04-2008, 02:19 PM
shot a pm to ya

pilot02
03-04-2008, 02:38 PM
I think your okay (haven't done any serious damage)!

I did the exact same thing this year and had the exact thing happen. Got to the lake a couple weeks ago, started the boat up as normal, let it run while I parked the truck and came back and my bilge was full. Opened the engine cover and saw it dumping water out of the back driver's side freeze plug hole. Drained the bilge, knocked the plug back in, ran it for an hour and checked all fluids and it was fine. The "freeze" plug did what it was supposed to do. With the block and manifolds drained apparently there was just enough water to freeze and push the plug out but not enough to cause enough pressure to cause any damage. The boat I'm working on for a friend right now apparently had the same thing happen to it as well because there's a rubber replacement plug in that same hole..

88 PS190
03-04-2008, 02:44 PM
Here is the answer.

C. You need to look deeper to know if you have a problem!

Those two leave no middle ground.

msanantonio
03-04-2008, 03:18 PM
I had a 1988 maristar and the freeze plug on one side would come out every once in a spring. It must have don this at least a half a dozen times over 20 years of ownership. I also had the cast iron exhaust header crack because I forgot to drain it (duh) Lesson learned the hard way but it wasn't the end of the world. These plugs are brass and as some one else said that is their function. I would say that you are ok. I wouldn't go crazy but I think you would want to wait until the weather warms up and then restore everythng and run the engine. I too have had the plugs pop out when the engine is first run. These plugs are just press fit. I carry a couple of plugs on my boat. I just upgraded to a Maristar 230 and followed the drainage procedure to a T and my boat is stored in an unheated garage in Northern NY. I also looked at it from a common sense point of view and it looks ok.

jimmer2880
03-04-2008, 06:24 PM
Here is the answer.

C. You need to look deeper to know if you have a problem!

Those two leave no middle ground.


Ding Ding Ding Ding... We have a winner.

You really need to have a mechanic take a deeper look. It could be nothing (had one pushed out on an older 351 and was fine). But, it could also be a head gasket or worse.

If it were mine, I'd be having it looked at asap so if there is something wrong, you can have it fixed before ski season gets going.

jimmer2880
03-04-2008, 06:27 PM
these plugs are not to protect the block against freezing. This is BAD INFORMATION. They are to fill in the holes that are required during the block casting phase to give the sand a way to get out of the casting.

They just happen to SOMETIMES protect a block from damage from freezing. But, they are NOT designed to do so.

They are also brass because of the water we run in. Regular automotive freeze plugs are steel because they run antifreeze that has a rust inhibiter.

jimmer2880
03-04-2008, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by flipper
I didn't know there are freeze plugs and "core plugs"....I know they use the holes to clean out the block when it is cast, but thought "freeze plugs" were used to plug the holes. Found this....

A true freeze plug is an expansion plug located in the side of an engine block that is supposed to protect the block against freeze damage. Water expands when it turns to ice, and if the coolant does not have enough antifreeze protection it can freeze and crack the engine block. The freeze plugs (there are usually several) are supposed to pop out under such conditions to relieve the pressure on the block.

Most of the plugs to be found on an engine are actually to plug the holes where sand cores have been held. The sand cores are used in the casting process to form internal cavities in the engine block or cylinder head, for cooling water for example, and so should really be referred to as core plugs.

I stand corrected. .:uglyhamme

However, they do not absolutely protect the engine against damage from freezing. I still say have someone take a closer look (not necessarily the dealer, but a trusted mechanic)

88 PS190
03-04-2008, 06:48 PM
Heck you can pour anti freeze into the system now and run it off a bucket of antifreeze briefly if you want to, then check the oil to see if any of it is getting where it shouldn't.

Will give you a decent idea of any problems, but then again, could damage more if you have something major out of place.

ridesdirt
03-04-2008, 09:41 PM
I would think the freeze plug popping is a good thing, it did its job. There is a chance your block was saved. Pressure test the cooling system after the replacing the freeze plug, that will let you know if you have other problems. good luck.

2000XPSD
03-05-2008, 09:10 PM
i'll 2nd pressure testing it....take you 2 seconds to do...10psi is fine

LakePirate
03-06-2008, 10:44 PM
Where is the UMP option?

Is there no respect around here anymore?


Someone should alert the authorities.

drbesvold1
03-06-2008, 11:13 PM
welcome to the club i got screwed over by the dealership i bought my mc from and they wouldnt fix or replace the engine so it cost me $2000 to fix the while engine so open up the pocket book , remember mc dont loose there value you should hold on to it as long as you can until you upgrade to a newer mc

JohnnyB
03-07-2008, 08:19 PM
I had this happen on my 351 after proper winterization and I freaked!!!! As someone said, these "casting plugs" come loose once in a while. You need further investigation. I would put some sealant on it and pop it back in. Then, I would have a pressure test and compression test done on it. If that checks out, you're probably fine. Then, go ahead and run it.

The 351 Ford block is a tough nut....I'm guessing if you drained everything and spun it over to work the remainder of the water out, you may get lucky and the plug coming out may be just coincidence.

Let us know how you fare!!!

loeweb
03-18-2008, 09:44 PM
Just to give everyone a quick update, and ask another question. I got over to the boat tonight after a couple of weeks of hard thinking and no time to figure out what is wrong with my boat, and this is what I have come up with. I replaced the frost plug and filled the block up with antifreeze like I f'ing should have done four months ago. Closed the petcocks back up, and waited to see if there was any RV dripping in the bilge. Well..... there was, but is is coming out of another core plug. It is a metal plug that appears to be starting to rust out. So here are the questions, "How hard is it to change this plug out?" (it's in a real tight spot) and "Is this method of block testing reliable or did I just waste my time and get a false sense of reassurance?" Again thanks in advance for all the help on this thread.

jimmer2880
03-19-2008, 07:11 PM
I have been able to replace core plugs before by putting a punch on one side and hitting it with a hammer. When it turns sideways in the hole, grab it with some vice-grips and pull. It shouldn't be hard to pull.

I would get a compression and leak-down test to see if there are any problems internally (like head gasket)

D3skier
03-19-2008, 08:30 PM
if this were my boat I'd just suck it up and take it to the dealer and have it completely gone through just for peace of mind.

sk8salomon
03-23-2008, 07:59 PM
like said above, the plug did its job. think of a pressure relief valve in a pneumatic or hydraulic system. once pressure reaches a certain point, the most vulnerable thing will go 1st, hence the freeze plug! put a new plug in and run it in the driveway, with water of course!

BrandonKTM
03-26-2008, 03:04 PM
like said above, the plug did its job. think of a pressure relief valve in a pneumatic or hydraulic system. once pressure reaches a certain point, the most vulnerable thing will go 1st, hence the freeze plug! put a new plug in and run it in the driveway, with water of course!
I disagree with this. The nature of ice compared to a liquid such as hydraulic fluid should tell you the answer. A freeze plug (if such a thing exists) would only relieve pressure at the plug. Immediately adjacent to it and all through the rest of the block, the water would freeze and expand. That ice expanding is what cracks the block. A plug at the other end of the block would release no pressure from the end w/o the plug. Yes it may have popped out, and relieved the pressure at that spot, but no way did it relieve the pressure anywhere else in your block. Now to solve the problem, you can get the crack in your block filled/welded and no problem. If it cracked somewhere else (exhaust manifold, water pump, head) then you are lucky and you just need to replace those parts. We have an antique Chris Craft and my dad sent the block to Wisconsin to be be filled/welded due to this exact problem. It is now a classic and wins trophies at boat shows and runs better now than when I learned to ski behind it.

Engine Nut
03-29-2008, 07:18 PM
Just to give everyone a quick update, and ask another question. I got over to the boat tonight after a couple of weeks of hard thinking and no time to figure out what is wrong with my boat, and this is what I have come up with. I replaced the frost plug and filled the block up with antifreeze like I f'ing should have done four months ago. Closed the petcocks back up, and waited to see if there was any RV dripping in the bilge. Well..... there was, but is is coming out of another core plug. It is a metal plug that appears to be starting to rust out. So here are the questions, "How hard is it to change this plug out?" (it's in a real tight spot) and "Is this method of block testing reliable or did I just waste my time and get a false sense of reassurance?" Again thanks in advance for all the help on this thread.

I think I read in your post the reason you had a problem with a core plug being pushed out of the block. Yes, they are core plugs and not freeze plugs. The key statement was "Closed the petcocks back up". If you drained the block just by opening the petcocks, you probably didn't get all of the water out. Our recommendation is that when you drain the block, completely remove the petcocks and use a stiff piece of wire, like a piece of coat hanger wire, to probe around through the block drain hole to make sure that there is no sand, rust scale or other debris. We stopped using petcocks a number of years ago and are just providing brass drain plugs. I would advise you do take the petcocks out and throw them away and install brass pipe plugs instead.

Cloaked
04-01-2008, 09:41 PM
Good to see you around Engine Nut. Always enjoy and value your input.

loeweb
04-20-2008, 11:11 AM
Just to update everyone that originally followed this thread. Sorry it has taken so long for me to get the boat out and start it up. Well Yesterday I FINALLY got enough spare time to pull her out of storage and start it up. Took some doing but she fired up and ran like the cold blooded pig that she is until she gets warmed up from her 4 month nap. I did find out that I have a couple of leaks. One is from the middle core plug. It has a pin hole leak in it, and another leak is from the exhaust manifold plug (Not enough teflan tape). So it looks like I lucked out. Again thanks for all your responses positive and negative, and good guess to those of you that thought I was ok. Time to go hit the water now.

cya

88 PS190
04-20-2008, 04:20 PM
what're you going to do with the plugs to seal them up?

loeweb
04-21-2008, 11:11 AM
what're you going to do with the plugs to seal them up?

I think that the threads are buggered (technical term) and the plugs are really worn so I am going to try and re tap the manifold threads and purchase new plugs. Hopefully this will solve the problem, if not I will use thread tape (teflan) to seal the threads better.

Anyone have any evperience replacing a core plug behind the motor mount without removing the mount? That one is gonna be a bear to get in and out.