PDA

View Full Version : Infant Vaccination information....??


Workin' 4 Toys
03-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Anyone got anything interesting and/or reliable to provide in reference to Infant vaccinations and child immunizations?

bcampbe7
03-04-2008, 12:11 PM
Anyone got anything interesting and/or reliable to provide in reference to Infant vaccinations and child immunizations?


http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/

Workin' 4 Toys
03-04-2008, 03:23 PM
Lots of information floating around linking vaccinations to S.I.D.S.

I wondered if there were anyone on board here with any knowledge on the subject.

flipper
03-04-2008, 03:27 PM
Just in general, or do you have one a certain one in mind? I can ask my wife for you.

88 PS190
03-04-2008, 03:31 PM
Lots of information floating around linking vaccinations to S.I.D.S.
I wondered if there were anyone on board here with any knowledge on the subject.


As far as I know the link is just a correlation due to the fact that SIDS is most common in children of the same age as the vaccinations are given.

SIDS is directly related to sleeping on stomachs, respiratory infections, and exposure to cigarette smoke by several studies.

I would recommend discussing this with the child's doctor, but I think the information is purely correlation.

BTW there is a 100% inverse correlation between Piracy and Global Warming, so it just goes to show, sometimes the thing that looks like it could be a cause, is just random occurance ha ha.

phecksel
03-04-2008, 08:10 PM
www.mercola.com has a lot of his opinions on vaccines, including the amount of mercury contained and anecdotal evidence linking vaccines to other issues, i.e. Autism.

88 PS190
03-04-2008, 08:43 PM
www.mercola.com has a lot of his opinions on vaccines, including the amount of mercury contained and anecdotal evidence linking vaccines to other issues, i.e. Autism.

dunno if that website is what I would consider a great unbiased resource, its a "Natural Health" type website trying to sell herbal remedies.

phecksel
03-04-2008, 10:30 PM
dunno if that website is what I would consider a great unbiased resource, its a "Natural Health" type website trying to sell herbal remedies.
Before he existed primarily to sell his products, there was a lot more unbiased information. He is an MD and became frustrated with the "system".

H20skeefreek
03-04-2008, 10:47 PM
I just went through this, and debated long and hard on whether or not to expose my daughter to these vaccines. In my opinion, there is a connection to vaccines using mercury as a preservative, but most companies do not anymore. My Dr. assured me that the vaccines they use do NOT have mercury in them.

Ultimately, the slightly increased risk was FAR less than the risk of not having the vaccines.

wakolman
03-05-2008, 12:28 AM
www.nvic.org (site was down when I posted, but should be online)

We don't vaccinate. I have worked with an autistic boy who also has a sister that is on the spectrum too. No one can tell their parents that vaccines did not have a role in their condition. As a parent, you see your baby develop and learn to walk, learn to mimic, and learn to talk. Shortly after a round of shots at approx. 2 yrs. old, the boy stopped talking and walking. The girl had the same thing happen. While she has made huge progress, he is still stuggling to develop age-appropriate social skills.

I personally believe that some people may be genetically ill-prepared to overcome the potency of a vaccination.

MMR Vaccine Adverse Reactions
Merck lists the following side effects on their package insert:
Panniculitis
atypical measles
fever
syncope
headache
dizziness
malaise
irritability
vasculitis
pancreatitis
diarrhea
vomiting
parotitis
nausea
diabetes mellitus
thrombocytopenia
purpura
regional lymphadenopathy
leukocytosis
Anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reactions
angioneurotic edema
bronchial spasms
arthritis
anthragia
myalgia
encephalitis
encephalopathy
subacute sclerosing panencephalitis
Guillian Barre Syndrome
febrile convulsions
seizures
ataxia
polyneuritis
polyneuropathy
ocular palsies
paresthesia
aseptic meningitis
Pneumonitis
sore throat
cough
rhinitis
Stevens-Johnson syndrome
erythema multiforme
urticaria
rash
pruritis
nerve deafness
otitis media
retinitis
optic neuritis
papillitis
retrobulbar neuritis
conjunctivitis
Orchitis
DEATH



Just remember you have a choice to vaccinate.

Workin' 4 Toys
03-05-2008, 07:50 AM
Just in general, or do you have one a certain one in mind? I can ask my wife for you.
In general.

I would recommend discussing this with the child's doctorNo worries on that. The wealth of information that comes from this site is nothing short of amazing. Just thought I might learn some things.;)

Roonie's
03-05-2008, 09:12 AM
In my opinion, there is a connection to vaccines using mercury as a preservative, but most companies do not anymore. My Dr. assured me that the vaccines they use do NOT have mercury in them.

Just an FYI....... The flu shot you get every year still has Thermasol as the preservative. You can request a Thermasol free flu shot as I have for the kids every year. Also if your pregnant have the RH factor the (RhoGAM) shot sometimes still has Mercury in it. Again you can request one without. Most other children's vaccines have already taken the mercury out as of 2003.

flipper
03-05-2008, 10:15 AM
Asked my wife, she has herd of it, but has not seen or herd anything conclusive. In her opinion, it's like anything else. They want to link something to everything. She says she wouldn't worry about it, that if there is some sort of link at all, you're taking more of a risk on a bad illness by not vaccinating. Being that my wife is prego, I have done a lot of reading on different things, and it seems to me that you can find something bad, linked to everything. For example, I found stuff about ultra sounds being linked to autism.

Roonie's
03-05-2008, 10:31 AM
It is making headlines more often specifically because of this recent court case. Also it has been an issue circling the autism community for some time. There is still no direct evidence to sugest the link yet.

Government concedes Vaccine-Autism Connection in Federal Court.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/government-concedes-vacci_b_88323.html

captain planet
03-05-2008, 10:32 AM
I just went through this, and debated long and hard on whether or not to expose my daughter to these vaccines. In my opinion, there is a connection to vaccines using mercury as a preservative, but most companies do not anymore. My Dr. assured me that the vaccines they use do NOT have mercury in them.

Ultimately, the slightly increased risk was FAR less than the risk of not having the vaccines.
Here is an article that relates to your comment about mercury in the vaccines.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/

phecksel
03-05-2008, 11:42 AM
Here is an article that relates to your comment about mercury in the vaccines.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7395411/deadly_immunity/
That is freaking scary. WTH is the FDA doing? I've gotten slammed on this board in the past for my personal position on statins, which suffer from the same flawed studies performed by researchers being paid by the drug companies.

captain planet
03-05-2008, 11:47 AM
That is freaking scary. WTH is the FDA doing? I've gotten slammed on this board in the past for my personal position on statins, which suffer from the same flawed studies performed by researchers being paid by the drug companies.
I just keep an eye on what I let my doctor give my kids. Fortunately our ped. is a friend of the family so I know I am getting an honest answer. I also don't let my kids get the flu shots, I never got them and I survived just fine. :D

88 PS190
03-05-2008, 12:07 PM
I'm out on this still " It was 187 micrograms ? an amount forty percent, not 187 times, greater than the EPA's limit for daily exposure to methylmercury." from the rolling stone link correction segment.

187 micrograms is 40 times the DAILY exposure to methylmercury.

Meaning that the EPA thinks it is acceptable to be exposed to 4.675 micrograms of methylmercury daily. Which in this context, a serving of seafood is likely to contain about 2.3 micrograms of methylmercury.

Not that I am supporting its use, but I don't know if the numbers are actually as severe as it would seem. Similar to all the hype about dental amalgam restorations (mixed metal fillings). Where the dosage seems like it could be severe but actual leeching is much less than initial studies suggests. And amalgams are still the prefered treatment by dentists, unless they are trying to move you up into more expensive repairs of course.

All our childhood vaccines probably were administered with this substance if online resources are correct.

Jorski
03-05-2008, 08:49 PM
and anecdotal evidence linking vaccines to other issues, i.e. Autism.


Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. There is NO scientific evidence whatsoever linking vaccines to autism. The diagnosis of autism does correlate to the general timing of vaccination; then again, for about one quarter of autistic cases so does winter. In another quarter of cases, summer seems to be the cause...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14519711?dopt=Abstract

RESULTS: During 2 986 654 person-years, we identified 440 autism cases and 787 cases of other autistic-spectrum disorders. The risk of autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders did not differ significantly between children vaccinated with thimerosal-containing vaccine and children vaccinated with thimerosal-free vaccine (RR, 0.85 [95% confidence interval [CI], 0.60-1.20] for autism; RR, 1.12 [95% CI, 0.88-1.43] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). Furthermore, we found no evidence of a dose-response association (increase in RR per 25 microg of ethylmercury, 0.98 [95% CI, 0.90-1.06] for autism and 1.03 [95% CI, 0.98-1.09] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). CONCLUSION: The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.

Another site offering plenty of similar studies:
http://72.32.4.217/ecbt/studies.htm#02//

The thing is if significant numbers stop vaccinating alltogether, many horrific diseases, some that kill children, will make a remarkable comeback.

wakolman
03-05-2008, 11:00 PM
Studies only show what the researcher wants them to show. Would you be suprised to know that some studies have been discontinued when the statistics start to show the opposite of what the "desired" outcomes might be? Some drug companies would be guilty of this.

We are so far from knowing any long term effects of drugs, vaccines, transfats, bisphenol, radon, etc. that you just have to get informed and make a decision that is best for you. Humans have been walking the world for approx. 100,000 years, vaccines and the others have only been around for less than 100 years.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/03/05/autism.vaccines.ap/index.html

H20skeefreek
03-06-2008, 12:06 AM
I'm out on this still " It was 187 micrograms ? an amount forty percent, not 187 times, greater than the EPA's limit for daily exposure to methylmercury." from the rolling stone link correction segment.

187 micrograms is 40 times the DAILY exposure to methylmercury.

Meaning that the EPA thinks it is acceptable to be exposed to 4.675 micrograms of methylmercury daily. Which in this context, a serving of seafood is likely to contain about 2.3 micrograms of methylmercury.

Not that I am supporting its use, but I don't know if the numbers are actually as severe as it would seem. Similar to all the hype about dental amalgam restorations (mixed metal fillings). Where the dosage seems like it could be severe but actual leeching is much less than initial studies suggests. And amalgams are still the prefered treatment by dentists, unless they are trying to move you up into more expensive repairs of course.

All our childhood vaccines probably were administered with this substance if online resources are correct.
While I see what you are saying, the EPA certainly does not think it is acceptable to be exposed to 187 micrograms in one single day, regardless of averaging it out over the year. Especially if you way 9 lbs.

Jorski
03-06-2008, 10:02 AM
Edit...triple post. grrr

Jorski
03-06-2008, 10:03 AM
edit...double post

Jorski
03-06-2008, 10:03 AM
Studies only show what the researcher wants them to show

Then why do only 1/10 stage 3 drug trials succeed ? That means that despite what you think 9/10 drug studies DO NOT meet the end point that the drug companies wished for at the beginning.


We are so far from knowing any long term effects of drugs, vaccines, transfats, bisphenol, radon, etc. that you just have to get informed and make a decision that is best for you.

Ummm...science is how we "get informed"


Humans have been walking the world for approx. 100,000 years, vaccines and the others have only been around for less than 100 years.

And just what do you think has happened to lifespan and infant mortality rates over that "100 years" ?

captain planet
03-06-2008, 11:30 AM
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. There is NO scientific evidence whatsoever linking vaccines to autism. The diagnosis of autism does correlate to the general timing of vaccination; then again, for about one quarter of autistic cases so does winter. In another quarter of cases, summer seems to be the cause...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14519711?dopt=Abstract

RESULTS: During 2 986 654 person-years, we identified 440 autism cases and 787 cases of other autistic-spectrum disorders. The risk of autism and other autistic-spectrum disorders did not differ significantly between children vaccinated with thimerosal-containing vaccine and children vaccinated with thimerosal-free vaccine (RR, 0.85 [95% confidence interval [CI], 0.60-1.20] for autism; RR, 1.12 [95% CI, 0.88-1.43] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). Furthermore, we found no evidence of a dose-response association (increase in RR per 25 microg of ethylmercury, 0.98 [95% CI, 0.90-1.06] for autism and 1.03 [95% CI, 0.98-1.09] for other autistic-spectrum disorders). CONCLUSION: The results do not support a causal relationship between childhood vaccination with thimerosal-containing vaccines and development of autistic-spectrum disorders.

Another site offering plenty of similar studies:
http://72.32.4.217/ecbt/studies.htm#02//

The thing is if significant numbers stop vaccinating alltogether, many horrific diseases, some that kill children, will make a remarkable comeback.
I was just passing along info that I had read about mercury in vaccines. You can take it for what it is worth. I would be curious to see who funded the research that says that mercury has no effect on a developing child's nervous system. Based on my knowledge, I am going to try to keep my children away from ALL mercury regardless of the concentration. Conflicting "studies" that try to tell me that one of the most toxic substances on the planet is fine to be directly injected into thier bodies is probably going to lose the battle with me. You can do what you want.

wakolman
03-06-2008, 12:20 PM
And just what do you think has happened to lifespan and infant mortality rates over that "100 years" ?

Reducing death rates could be attributable to many factors: increases in food production and distribution, improvements in public health (water and sanitation), along with gains in education and standards of living.

We can have as many hot showers a day as we want. We have better information on nutrition and understanding the importance of exercise. Better access to health care. One-hundred years ago, this all looked very different.

science is how we "get informed"

My comment on not knowing the future impact of these is that 100 years is not long enough to know which toxins are the more dangerous and carcinogenic and should be avoided. What is deemed safe today probably has not had a long enough run to show effects three, four, or five generations from now. Examples: Asbestos was thought to be safe for insulation. Lead-based pipes used for potable water plumbing. Phen-Fen as an acceptable weight-loss drug.


This is only my opinion. Thanks for playing the devil's advocate.;)

Jorski
03-06-2008, 12:21 PM
Just a quick point about toxicity. Water in high quantities is toxic, while arsenic in low enough quantities is not toxic. Rat poison is used to treat cancer patients.

This thread is getting confused by the recommended daily amount, which is the amount deemed safe if it was consumed or injected every single day. It is not the maximum amount that is safe in a single exposure.

The best example that I could give is x-rays. A single x-ray is many times the daily recommended amount of exposure to radiation; however, there are not ill-effects unless you had long term repeated exposure. There are times when the benefit of the procedure simply far outways the risk of not having the procedure.

No doubt that many things have contributed to our increased lifespan including simple cleanliness, but the single biggest impact has been the irradication of plagues due to drugs.

Anyhow, I remember having feelings of doubt when my own kids were small; after all they seem so fragile, but after learning a little more about it, there was really any other choice for me than to vaccinate.

captain planet
03-06-2008, 12:26 PM
Just a quick point about toxicity. Water in high quantities is toxic, while arsenic in low enough quantities is not toxic. Rat poison is used to treat cancer patients.

This thread is getting confused by the recommended daily amount, which is the amount deemed safe if it was consumed or injected every single day. It is not the maximum amount that is safe in a single exposure.

The best example that I could give is x-rays. A single x-ray is many times the daily recommended amount of exposure to radiation; however, there are not ill-effects unless you had long term repeated exposure. There are times when the benefit of the procedure simply far outways the risk of not having the procedure.

No doubt that many things have contributed to our increased lifespan including simple cleanliness, but the single biggest impact has been the irradication of plagues due to drugs.

Anyhow, I remember having feelings of doubt when my own kids were small; after all they seem so fragile, but after learning a little more about it, there was really any other choice for me than to vaccinate.
Like I said, you can do what you want, I'm keeping my children away from mercury (as well as lead) at all costs regardless of concentration.

bigmac
03-06-2008, 01:25 PM
This whole topic is pointless to even try to argue. It's all about believing what one wants to believe. IMHO, it's an extension of the anti-flouridation arguments, but with even more political overtones, and conspiracy concepts, thrown in.

CP is right...believe what you want to believe, do what you want to do. I can tell you from extensive experience that there is a subset of patients that do not want to be confused by facts or science.



"but doctor...you tell me one thing and my friends tell me another. Who am I supposed to believe?"

Upper Michigan Prostar190
03-06-2008, 01:36 PM
This whole topic is pointless to even try to argue. It's all about believing what one wants to believe. IMHO, it's an extension of the anti-flouridation arguments, but with even more political overtones, and conspiracy concepts, thrown in.

CP is right...believe what you want to believe, do what you want to do. I can tell you from extensive experience that there is a subset of patients that do not want to be confused by facts or science.



"but doctor...you tell me one thing and my friends tell me another. Who am I supposed to believe?"

Are you saying that Airborne cant cure the common cold? ;) My friends say it can. who do I believe?

Workin' 4 Toys
03-06-2008, 04:09 PM
Pointless to argue???
I don't see how the potentially lethal doses of toxins getting pumped into children could be pointless. Of course I am still learning. So what do I know.

They had a very brief segment on CNN about an immunization and autism today.

bigmac
03-07-2008, 12:26 AM
Pointless to argue???
I don't see how the potentially lethal doses of toxins getting pumped into children could be pointless. Of course I am still learning. So what do I know.

They had a very brief segment on CNN about an immunization and autism today.
It is incredible isn't it? And the government is allowing it, and doctors are still getting their own kids vaccinated. Why do you that is? Do you think it's just stupidity on their part? Or is there evil afoot?

captain planet
03-07-2008, 08:50 AM
It is incredible isn't it? And the government is allowing it, and doctors are still getting their own kids vaccinated. Why do you that is? Do you think it's just stupidity on their part? Or is there evil afoot?
Evil afoot? This seems a little far fetched to be some conspiracy theory although it would be interesting to debate that point. I think the fact that there is still mercury in flu shots today and they advertise flu shots like there is no tomorrow during the season would be a good argument. Call it unnatural natural selection, those who are smart and pay attention won't let their children get mercury laced vaccines. Those that don't pay attention, maybe watch a little too much american idol (or any other reality show for that matter) let their children get those vaccines.

I tend to believe that the phamaceutical companies get a lot of "help" when it comes to this kind of stuff. Kind of like that new drug that is for cervical cancer in girls/women (can't remember the name of the drug) that is going to be mandatory in Texas (by executive order of Gov. Rick Perry). Nice handout to merck on that one. I wonder where Gov. Rick Perry will be working when he gets out of office? My money says he will be working for Merck. (there, that stone should have gone ALL the way through the beehive)

Workin' 4 Toys
03-12-2008, 09:25 AM
government is allowing it,
There is absoluetely no relief given with this comment.

bcampbe7
03-12-2008, 12:13 PM
Around 1991-92, Japan all but stopped giving the MMR vaccine to children. Does anyone know what happened to the rate of autism cases in Japan during 1993-94?



























It nearly doubled!

Vaccines have contained thimerosal since the early 1930's. The term "Autism" was was coined in 1943 by Leo Kanner. Since that time the number of cases of Autism has skyrocketed. In the late 1990's the CDC all but forced drug companies to stop using thimerosal in vaccines yet the number of cases has continued to steadily increase.

Another fact regarding autism or autism spectrum disorders (ASD) is that there is a 4.3:1 ratio of males to females affected. Why is this? Does thimerosal affect males more so than females?

Lastly, autism has been diagnosed as early as 6 months of age. I truly feel that a child exhibits autistic traits throughout their early development which implode around 18 months. 18 months is the same age that you will see "normally" developing children exhibit a language burst. Is it a coincidence that 18 months is also the age that most children are diagnosed with autism?

:twocents:

Maristar210
03-12-2008, 12:16 PM
Evil afoot? This seems a little far fetched to be some conspiracy theory although it would be interesting to debate that point. I think the fact that there is still mercury in flu shots today and they advertise flu shots like there is no tomorrow during the season would be a good argument. Call it unnatural natural selection, those who are smart and pay attention won't let their children get mercury laced vaccines. Those that don't pay attention, maybe watch a little too much american idol (or any other reality show for that matter) let their children get those vaccines.

I tend to believe that the phamaceutical companies get a lot of "help" when it comes to this kind of stuff. Kind of like that new drug that is for cervical cancer in girls/women (can't remember the name of the drug) that is going to be mandatory in Texas (by executive order of Gov. Rick Perry). Nice handout to merck on that one. I wonder where Gov. Rick Perry will be working when he gets out of office? My money says he will be working for Merck. (there, that stone should have gone ALL the way through the beehive)

I think Howard was inducing a bit of sarcasm based upon his "background"

What's up H?

phecksel
03-22-2008, 09:02 AM
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/3/22/u-s-government-concedes-that-mercury-causes-autism.aspx

The U.S. government has concluded that childhood vaccines contributed to symptoms of autism in 9-year-old Hannah Poling. The unprecedented concession was in response to one of three test cases that allege the mercury-containing vaccine preservative thimerosal caused autism in children.

According to the case, the child was healthy and developing normally until her 18-month well-baby visit, where she received vaccinations for nine diseases, two of which contained thimerosal. Within 48 hours of the shots, Hannah become ill, refused to walk and could not sleep through the night. Within three months, she began showing signs of autism.

According to U.S. Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation, the shots "significantly aggravated an underlying mitochondrial disorder" and resulted in a brain disorder "with features of autism spectrum disorder."

Thimerosal was taken out of most childhood vaccines at the beginning of the decade. In 2006, studies of two government databases indicated that autism rates went up as thimerosal dosages increased, then began to decline as thimerosal was removed.

Yet, if you look at this Time magazine article, it says that autism rates have continued to climb since thimerosal was removed from vaccines in 2001. Why the discrepancy?

It could be due to the fact that in 2002 the U.S. government began recommending flu shots to children under 2 (and now recommends them for kids until they’re 18). Well, most flu shots still contain thimerosal, so many infants are still being exposed to mercury.

bigmac
03-22-2008, 10:16 AM
I think Howard was inducing a bit of sarcasm based upon his "background"

What's up H?


Yes. Apparently I was being too oblique.

bigmac
03-22-2008, 10:16 AM
duplicate post

Workin' 4 Toys
05-13-2008, 08:57 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/05/12/autism.case.ap/index.html

Leah
05-13-2008, 08:34 PM
So as the mom of a child with Asperger's ( on the Autistic Spectrum), here is my 2 cents......Both of my kids are vaccinated according to our state's and recommendations of our pediatricians. Our son has Asperger's, our daughter doesn't. Our son was not diagnosed until age 6. By then the idea of his infant immunizations were a distant memory. There are sooooooo many reports now of the link between vaccines and their possible side effects. I do know for a fact that if you walk through any cemetary with some age, you will find a large percentage of children burried. Point is, kids esp babies used to die from measles, mumps, rubella, whopping cough, strep and many other diseases that our kids will never even hear about. Vaccines are a good thing and they have saved lives. I have spoken with many other parents on the same subject and some have come up with their own ideas. For those concerned, they might try to stager the doses of your childs vaccinations. Meaning instead of the 3-4 injections, have them only give the child one, then return a month later to receive the next etc so that the child's body won't be hit with so much of the preservatives at once. This is just an idea, and I am not a doctor, but it did make sense. There is no way to tell if vaccines were the cause of our son's syndrome. There never will be. I hope that you can come to your own conclusions about this, it is hard.