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View Full Version : Stargazer Updates Coming Soon


BrianM
03-03-2008, 11:53 AM
Just got off the phone with Eric at PP. He said that they are working on an update for Stargazer and should have it in the next week to week and a half. So for all of us early adopters there is going to be a trade in/update process. Either PP will send out a new MM and then you send yours back to them or if you can wait a bit you send yours in and they update and return. It will be a 'warranty' thing so the update will be no cost. He didn't say nor did I ask about the shipping. One additional thing to note is the new MMs no longer have a replaceable chip so updates and apparently future upgrades are going to have to be done like this.


One issue I was talking to him about was the fact that the pull seems MUCH firmer with SG than it did with 6.5n. He said what is kind of interesting is what they are hearing is that with the mechanical (servo controlled) boats with SG they are getting reports like mine of a very firm pull. He said that with the drive by wire boats the reports seem to be that the pull feels softer.

So for those thinking of doing the upgrade you may want to wait a couple of weeks so you get the updated version.

All of this is very interesting.......

j2nh
03-03-2008, 12:16 PM
Thanks Brian.
An specifics on what the upgrade/recall/change is going to be to the Master Module? Must be significant if they are offering warrantee exchanges.

east tx skier
03-03-2008, 12:21 PM
I think they'd have a lot of ticked off people on their hands if they planned to charge for an update less than a month after accepting initial orders.

BrianM
03-03-2008, 12:27 PM
I think they'd have a lot of ticked off people on their hands if they planned to charge for an update less than a month after accepting initial orders. You think? :rolleyes: I hope they take care of the shipping too.
Thanks Brian.
An specifics on what the upgrade/recall/change is going to be to the Master Module? Must be significant if they are offering warrantee exchanges.
There seem to be lots of reports of various software issues. Some people getting very inconsistent (hot 1 ball then slow 3 ball) times. I was having a bit of an issue this weekend with the boat at 34 mph. It would lock in then speed up substantially (36-37) just before the gates then drop the speed off hard at about 2 ball in order to compensate. It only happened twice but it was odd. So there are definitely some known problems out there.

Seems that Perfect Pass released the Beta version and touted it as the finished product. I hope this upcoming round of updates will be the last for the season. I sure don't want to deal with having to send MMs back every other month.

east tx skier
03-03-2008, 12:41 PM
Note to self. Write down baselines before uninstalling Master Module!

Jesus_Freak
03-03-2008, 12:44 PM
Second note to self: Let BrianM test all Beta products before purchasing.

BrianM
03-03-2008, 12:46 PM
Second note to self: Let BrianM test all Beta products before purchasing.
Glad I could help :cool:

Sodar
03-03-2008, 12:54 PM
I sure hope that they get it figured out. It would be rather annoying to be pulling the MM out every month or so, to send it in. I hope that they send a new MM, let you swap them out and then send the old MM back. If not, then boats will be out of commission for the whole time it takes to send it in, have it updated and send it back!

C36
04-04-2008, 07:35 PM
BrianM:

Just curious if there is any news on the release of the update?

...they are working on an update...

...the pull seems MUCH firmer with SG than it did with 6.5n. He said what is kind of interesting is what they are hearing is that with the mechanical (servo controlled) boats with SG they are getting reports like mine of a very firm pull. He said that with the drive by wire boats the reports seem to be that the pull feels softer.

So for those thinking of doing the upgrade you may want to wait a couple of weeks so you get the updated version....

Or the firmer pull - have you had a chance to run KX at ++?

This is my understanding as well. After talking to PP this morning next time out I will be running the KX at ++ to hopefully give the boat a softer feel.

JerryS
04-04-2008, 08:15 PM
I talked to Mark at PP the day before yesterday. He took down my name and address, and CC number. They are shipping me a new MM with the update. They will only charge my card if I do not send back the old one. He said to expect the new MM to arrive by the middle to end of next week.

BrianM
04-04-2008, 09:41 PM
I did the same thing on Wednesday. Should have the update sometime next week.

I have skied it in ++ a few times. Still feels firm. I have gone to just skiing it in normal and I am getting more used to it, I still have hope that the update might soften things up.

C36
04-04-2008, 11:05 PM
Jerry S/Brian M:

Thanks for the updates.

I am following this with interest as I had to place my SG order last month to reserve some time with my dealer for summer install. They winterize, store and deliver about 600 boats each year so I have learned to allow LOTS of lead time and book early.

As Brian is aware (thanks again for the pre-purchase advice) ours will be servo too. The week after I ordered, I read Brian's comment on the "firm" [pull of SG on servo boats] (not that I would likely be able to tell the difference [with my current level of novice course skiing]). :rolleyes: I just like the sounds of "soft" [pull of speed control] a lot better [as I was looking forward to improved speed control from while behind our boat and potentially some better slalom passes from me].

edit\ 2008 Apr 5 = [additions for clarity]

stuartmcnair
04-04-2008, 11:23 PM
Jerry S/Brian M:

I read Brian's comment on the "firm feel" (not that I would likely be able to tell the difference). :rolleyes: I just like the sounds of "soft" a lot better.

that's something I never expected to see on a boat forum...

C36
04-05-2008, 12:39 PM
There are a lot of things on here I would not expect to see on a boat forum. ;)

that's something I never expected to see on a boat forum...

JerryS
04-07-2008, 10:43 AM
My upgraded StarGazer MM just arrived this am via fedex.

Jerry

MYMC
04-07-2008, 10:54 AM
The update addresses us fat guys and kids/women...there will be a "light" setting for people under 120lbs. Also the software addresses the "firm" pull that some have reported after 3 ball.

Lastly, this "update" is nothing new...if you lived with Perfect Pass in 1997 till now you've seen many updates over the years, constant fine tuning and improvments have been the norm from these guys since day one.

BrianM
04-07-2008, 11:00 AM
Lastly, this "update" is nothing new...if you lived with Perfect Pass in 1997 till now you've seen many updates over the years, constant fine tuning and improvments have been the norm from these guys since day one.

But generally the updates have been approximately a yearly occurance. Updates are good but it is a little concerning when they release a product that does not perform properly from the get go and have to release an update to correct the problem within just a couple of months.

Don't get me wrong I am glad they are fixing it. PP is standing behind their product. Just don't understand how they could have missed a fairly substantial problem during developement PRIOR to releasing SG in the first place.

MYMC
04-07-2008, 11:08 AM
But generally the updates have been approximately a yearly occurance. Updates are good but it is a little concerning when they release a product that does not perform properly from the get go and have to release an update to correct the problem within just a couple of months.

Don't get me wrong I am glad they are fixing it. PP is standing behind their product. Just don't understand how they could have missed a fairly substantial problem during developement PRIOR to releasing SG in the first place.
I have to disagree with you...there are improvments to be made sure, but this was approved as you own it by ALL governing bodies and pulled it's first pro tournament two weeks ago. I never had any large issues, but I'm not 120lbs either. BTW, I never felt the 3 ball surge...course I'm usually so far behind by then PP is the last thing I'm worried about!;)

wakeX2wake
04-07-2008, 11:10 AM
apparently it worked well enough as some point... they got approved by the USA Waterski Tow Boat Committee for events... I kind of doubt they did it w/o their own study done on the product

BrianM
04-07-2008, 11:39 AM
apparently it worked well enough as some point... they got approved by the USA Waterski Tow Boat Committee for events... I kind of doubt they did it w/o their own study done on the product
I have no idea how USA Waterski tests speed control. In fact I think the only people who do are AWSA. They don't give out any info on how they test or what the approval process is.

The thing is Stargazer was giving lots of people problems with bad times throught the first half of the course. Yes this was generally at 34mph and with heavier skiers but the problem came up very quickly after it was released to the public. Bad times through the first half mean bad speed. Yeah it was giving perfect end times but that was due to the fact that it was making up time (speeding up) around 3 ball. Also we are not talking about huge skiers here. Just strong pullers in the 180+ range. Seems like this would have been a skier they would have tested with.

JerryS
04-07-2008, 01:27 PM
Here's the text of the upgrade.

http://members.aol.com/ctseaplane/gazerupdate.jpg

BrianM
04-08-2008, 10:59 AM
Got my Gazer update this morning. They have also included a relay for those of us with servo boats that were having problems with a black screan at startup. Additionally they are now allowing user adjustment of the pregate, and 1 ball pull. Interesting. Kind of complicated so I hope I don't have to mess with that.

Perfect Pass has stepped up here. They are even refunding the cost of the return shipping.

I should be able to get it installed and give a report this weekend.

BrianM
04-11-2008, 04:00 PM
Installed my Gazer upgrade this afternoon and there is something wrong with the new module. It will not memorize any of the settings. Each time you turn off the key it completely resets itself and asks for initial hours. Called PP and they said that it was apparently defective. Are sending out a new one that should be here by Tuesday or Wednesday. So no update testing from me for the weekend.

east tx skier
04-11-2008, 05:42 PM
I will go restart mine when I get home. I hope it's not contagious.

One thing I noticed that I had not seen mentioned is the little "dongle" that you can put on the servo plug. Apparently, mine wasn't the only one with the blank screen syndrome.

BrianM
04-11-2008, 06:30 PM
I will go restart mine when I get home. I hope it's not contagious.

One thing I noticed that I had not seen mentioned is the little "dongle" that you can put on the servo plug. Apparently, mine wasn't the only one with the blank screen syndrome. Yep. I was having lots of problems with black screen and the PP just being blank and beeping at startup. I did install the relay on my old module so at least that annoyance should be fixed.

east tx skier
04-11-2008, 07:03 PM
Yep. I was having lots of problems with black screen and the PP just being blank and beeping at startup. I did install the relay on my old module so at least that annoyance should be fixed.

Well, Brian, you're not alone. Mine's dooing the same memory dump every time the key is turned off. I just emailed PP. Sounds like you were smarrter than me and kept your old module. Mine is already on its way back.

hokiecharlie
04-14-2008, 01:38 PM
I had intended to purchase SG, but I'm wondering if I should wait until some of these bugs are worked out. Are these problems just with upgrades or all-new systems too?

Jesus_Freak
04-24-2008, 01:13 PM
This is a minor threadjack, but is related to the accuracy of speed control systems in general, especially those that do not relay on GPS. We talk about crew weight, but fuel level changes can make up to maybe 200 lbs difference in the towing load. That is worth a mother-in-law for sure. :D The unit has no way of knowing fuel level, it seems. Are we supposed to estimate that as part of the crew weight or just calibrate around it with magnet timing.

skihorse
04-24-2008, 01:44 PM
This is a minor threadjack, but is related to the accuracy of speed control systems in general, especially those that do not relay on GPS. We talk about crew weight, but fuel level changes can make up to maybe 200 lbs difference in the towing load. That is worth a mother-in-law for sure. :D The unit has no way of knowing fuel level, it seems. Are we supposed to estimate that as part of the crew weight or just calibrate around it with magnet timing.

Times come in faster with a full tank w/o gps and will slow up as tank drains. Evidently the heavier tail keep the nose up and more hull out of the water = less drag. Weight in the front brings the nose down causing more drag and slower times requiring more rpms. B4 gps we just adjusted rpms +/- as we go to keep times as close to actual as possible.

east tx skier
04-24-2008, 04:38 PM
Here's an update to my situation. To date, I have received three updated modules (Version 8). I have had the system save issues with each of them. I have been in regular communication with Perfect Pass about this and have performed multiple tests at their request to see if we could localize the source of the problem. None of these tests has born fruit. Yesterday, I sent the three modules back. Perfect Pass is sending me a module loaded with SG Version 7 (2.7.0), which worked fine for me previously. If the module with Version 7 will save changed info, then we know the problem is not on my end and I will stick with Version 7 while I await a further update that will resolve the system save issues Brian and I have had.

Though the save issue has been frustrating, I have no complaints over the guys Perfect Pass's attention to the issue and efforts to get it resolved.

sand2snow22
04-25-2008, 11:43 AM
From a reliable source:

We just found out yesterday that in 60 days there will be no Stargazer any longer. Zero Off had the patent on GPS cruise control and just won the legal battle.

Sodar
04-25-2008, 12:02 PM
Any links? I sure hope that this is not true! I don't want to swap systems!

east tx skier
04-25-2008, 12:22 PM
From a reliable source:

We just found out yesterday that in 60 days there will be no Stargazer any longer. Zero Off had the patent on GPS cruise control and just won the legal battle.

I'm a little confused by this. Is this a different case than is going on in the Federal Courts WD-TX? Last I looked, the issue in that case was whether econtrols's product violated PP's patent. The result of an econtrols victory in that matter would just mean that they could produce a system for old timey wired throttle boats.

Okay, so I just looked at the scheduling order. The only patent case I know of isn't even set for trial until 04/20/2009. To what case is your source referring?

east tx skier
04-25-2008, 12:52 PM
Okay, I am going on very good information here. None better actually. I can't say much, but I can say this.

Stargazer is not going away. Watch for a press release for other details soon

Jesus_Freak
04-25-2008, 12:57 PM
I assume your "none better" and sand's "reliable source" are not the same person? :D

east tx skier
04-25-2008, 02:15 PM
I assume your "none better" and sand's "reliable source" are not the same person? :D

Having exchanged PMs with S2S, our sources are not the same person.

sand2snow22
04-25-2008, 07:03 PM
Having exchanged PMs with S2S, our sources are not the same person.

Eastie's source is better than mine. His is more horse and mouth :D

Regardless, once the bugs are worked out, this tech. should be a big benefit!

BuoyChaser
07-03-2008, 04:11 PM
I just received my SG in the mail today and to confirm I believe the current version is Star Gazer V 7.0.05 per the document "Background Adjustable Settings - Slalom".