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View Full Version : 2007 197 - Help with value.....


bxroads
02-19-2008, 12:17 AM
Tonight I ran across a 2007 197 that was used at a ski school. It has 500 hrs and is in excellent condition. The trailer is perfect with only a few miles on it. It has the MCX engine and power slot transmission. Other options I noticed were a Mastercraft bimini and cover, perfect pass, and JL Audio speakers. The color scheme is right up my alley, white with grey center.

1 - Whats a good price for such a rig

2 - Does 500 hrs scare you

3 - Does the fact that it was at a ski school scare you?

4 - How will the boat handle chop compared to the 1997 hull (what I currently have)

88 PS190
02-19-2008, 12:29 AM
500 hours does not scare me if its been maintained, it should do that 3 or 4 more times

ski school, that depends. Some ski schools treat their boats very well, Bennetts for instance takes the bow seats out and stores them, same with the rear deck, and they do not put students into the boat. Where as some ski schools load up with a bunch of people that puts alot more wear on the interior. They also stop using a boat shy of 300 hours by a bit, so they don't use each boat very long.

These hulls I have never experienced in chop, but they felt good going through their own wakes.

Ill treatment would show up first in the interior and gloss of the hull, if it still looks in good shape, it probably is going to be fine mechanically, and certainly if you are located in the south you don't have the freeze risk.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 12:43 AM
I know the mechanic who maintained it, he worked at nautique for over 20 years, skis a lot, and is a certified tower for the south region. He also hangs out at the ski school a LOT. I'm confident the boat was well maintained and the interior shows absolutely no wear.

So how about a price? It's listed for under $30.

erkoehler
02-19-2008, 12:55 AM
Personally, I'd spend more money and get a boat with less hours. Think about it this way: If you buy the boat with 500 hours only a year old and put on approx. 100 hours a year. In four years you will have nearly 1000 hours.....the boat isn't going to be worth much, prepare to take a hit! Just my opinion though.....

However, if properly maintained there shouldn't be any issues. You should be able to get the remaining warranty as well if they are the original owner? Might not be a bad idea to look in to an extended warranty as well!

P.S. Just noticed you are from the Southeast, you may put more than 100hr on each year!?!?!?

Ski Bum
02-19-2008, 01:17 AM
With out seeing it sounds like a nice boat. Under 30k sounds ok to me the boat was probley 43,000 45,000 retail, depending on options. 500 hours. isnt to bad. Ive seen a MC boat at my lake go 2000 hr and still going strong.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 04:48 AM
I'll have to check but I believe he said that MC provides the extended warranty on the boat and its included in the price. It must be some sort a program he has going with MC because I was told that if it didn't sell MC takes the boat back.

JohnE
02-19-2008, 07:02 AM
The price seems good. I looked at buying an '07 new. Let's say it would be at least $45K for that boat. Probably more. I assume there is no tower.

The hours don't scare me if you plan to keep it for a long time. Because the boat will be fine if maintained. But as Eric said, resale might take a hit. But then again, you are already buying it (if you buy it) for less than a typical '07 would cost.

Seems like a reasonable deal.

03 35th Anniversary
02-19-2008, 07:57 AM
I'll have to check but I believe he said that MC provides the extended warranty on the boat and its included in the price. It must be some sort a program he has going with MC because I was told that if it didn't sell MC takes the boat back.Sounds like its a Tourament Team Boat..... White with Gray stars maybe?????

ncsone
02-19-2008, 08:38 AM
You can always get the NADA blue book value via www.nada.com. My experience has been that it is a little low regarding Mastercraft values. It seems like most MC's are selling at about 10% over NADA value. Hope this helps.

BrianM
02-19-2008, 09:02 AM
Hey bxroads did you ever sell the Stars and Stripes or will you be adding a third boat to the garage?

bxroads
02-19-2008, 09:18 AM
Sounds like its a Tourament Team Boat

You know, he did mention that it was a Tournament Team Boat, but it had no markings as you described.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 09:19 AM
Hey bxroads did you ever sell the Stars and Stripes or will you be adding a third boat to the garage?


Uhhhhh, that would make 3 (somebody please help).

BrianM
02-19-2008, 09:26 AM
Uhhhhh, that would make 3 (somebody please help).

Sir... Please turn around and walk away from the boat... You have a sickness. ;)

Yellow X9
02-19-2008, 09:36 AM
You can always get the NADA blue book value via www.nada.com. My experience has been that it is a little low regarding Mastercraft values. It seems like most MC's are selling at about 10% over NADA value. Hope this helps.


Man, i'll tell ya. I went to the NADA site plugged in the features on my 2005 X-9. Boat holds its value well High $ 44,k Low K 39.5 K. These boats hold the value very well

shepherd
02-19-2008, 09:39 AM
I know the mechanic who maintained it, he worked at nautique for over 20 years, skis a lot, and is a certified tower for the south region. He also hangs out at the ski school a LOT. I'm confident the boat was well maintained and the interior shows absolutely no wear.

So how about a price? It's listed for under $30.

When I was looking to buy last year, I looked at a couple ski school MCs that were being sold by a mechanic who worked for SN, skis a bit, and hangs out at the ski school a lot (in the Southeast). I wonder if it's the same guy. Is the ski school Pickos?

BTW, they were asking a little under $30K but the boats were pretty beat up IMO.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 09:48 AM
Yes, its Jody. I took the S&S down to him last night. It was dark so I could have been deceived by the condition. Are you in the area of his shop?

shepherd
02-19-2008, 10:25 AM
Yeah, I live about 2 miles from his shop. I've skied with him a few times and he's worked on my boat. Good mechanic. I'm sure the boat is as mechanically sound as possible given the use it's had. I can take a look at it in the daylight if you want. What does it look like (color?).

Sodar
02-19-2008, 10:31 AM
500 hrs. sounds like an awful lot for being a year old. Just for perspective. I have a 2007 with less than 80 hours and that was with a 9-month SoCal boating season!

bxroads
02-19-2008, 11:34 AM
Shep, I'd love for you to swing by and check it out. It's white and gray, you can't miss it.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 11:56 AM
Sodar, it does sound like a bunch of hours. Here's another perspective. I have access to a private lake which is where I do most skiing. In order to have access to the lake I leave a boat on the lift so that the owners can use it when they visit the property, which was exactly twice last year. Talk about me getting a raw deal (grin)! Currently I leave a S&S that I have. I've also a 97 190 that stays with me. When I go to the lake the 97 follows. If I sell the S&S and move the 97 to the lake I'd have no need to haul the 500 hr 2007. In other words, I doubt I'd put 30 hours a year on it and the hours would level out over time.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 12:03 PM
Sodar, didn't you have a 97 190? How would you compare handling in rough water. Is the deeper hull of the 1997 advantageous?

Sodar
02-19-2008, 12:20 PM
Sodar, didn't you have a 97 190? How would you compare handling in rough water. Is the deeper hull of the 1997 advantageous?

I find my 197 to ride much better than my '96 190. The 190 was scared of its own wake!

6ballsisall
02-19-2008, 12:22 PM
Sodar, didn't you have a 97 190? How would you compare handling in rough water. Is the deeper hull of the 1997 advantageous?


I'm not Sodar but I did have a 95' PS190 and then an X7 (same hull as a 197) I wouldn't say that the 197/X7 is notably better in rough water in comparison to the 95-97 MC hull.

:twocents:

Benny Boy
02-19-2008, 12:24 PM
I disagree with some. 500 hours is nothing. That boat is still brand new. If you don't buy it right away, I might! Under 30k sounds wrong. It should be more like 40k and over if you ask me. In a few years, that boat is still gonna be worth 35K. Go for it!

east tx skier
02-19-2008, 12:24 PM
I find my 197 to ride much better than my '96 190. The 190 was scared of its own wake!

The 197 isn't afraid. It eats it up.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 12:29 PM
I find my 197 to ride much better than my '96 190. The 190 was scared of its own wake!


Have you ever rode in an '83 S&S? It makes the '97 190 feel like a ship.



Roads

6ballsisall
02-19-2008, 12:31 PM
Ha! Well there you go BXRoads! two opposing opinions! 8p Good luck my friend! Sounds like a great price!

bxroads
02-19-2008, 12:32 PM
I disagree with some. 500 hours is nothing. That boat is still brand new. If you don't buy it right away, I might! Under 30k sounds wrong. It should be more like 40k and over if you ask me. In a few years, that boat is still gonna be worth 35K. Go for it!


The 197 isn't afraid. It eats it up.



Damn it boys. I don't know if the wife can handle three MC's in the relationship, but with talk like that we might find out.



Roads

bxroads
02-19-2008, 12:33 PM
If Shepherd would just get back with his survey...........



Roads

east tx skier
02-19-2008, 12:34 PM
Damn it boys. I don't know if wife can handle three MC's in the relationship, but with talk like that we might find out.



Roads

By the way, my comment was a half-a$$ed attempt at a joke based on the common story of people dunking the nose of 197s (and other open bows) when encountering rollers (often their own). I'm in no way attempting to make any sort of meaningful comparison between a 95--97 prostar and a 197, having owned neither of the boats in question.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 12:37 PM
I'll pretend I didn't hear that. Can't you tell I'm just looking for an excuse.


Roads

6ballsisall
02-19-2008, 12:38 PM
By the way, my comment was a half-a$$ed attempt at a joke based on the common story of people dunking the nose of 197s (and other open bows) when encountering rollers (often their own). I'm in no way attempting to make any sort of meaningful comparison between a 95--97 prostar and a 197, having owned neither of the boats in question.

I do believe both Erkoehler and I can speak from experience on that, on seperate occasions on seperate boats. :rolleyes:

88 PS190
02-19-2008, 12:39 PM
Have you ever rode in an '83 S&S? It makes the '97 190 feel like a ship.
Roads

Same comparison with my 88 190, rough days it feels more like sailing, Tacking at angles through the waves and still getting hammered by them.

That's just the nature of the beast.

The 197's benefit from being quieter with the pounding which makes you more confident in the hull not falling apart on you.

Sodar
02-19-2008, 12:44 PM
By the way, my comment was a half-a$$ed attempt at a joke based on the common story of people dunking the nose of 197s (and other open bows) when encountering rollers (often their own). I'm in no way attempting to make any sort of meaningful comparison between a 95--97 prostar and a 197, having owned neither of the boats in question.

It is really an issue of poor boat driving...

east tx skier
02-19-2008, 12:46 PM
It is really an issue of poor boat driving...

Agreed. Though Erk once told me that the 197 sat lower in the water and had a more swept down nose than my old 205 (and was therefore more prone to it), I think it's something everyone has happen to them once and, if they're careful, never again after that. Had it happen with my 205 once during the first couple of months of ownership.

Like I said, it was just an admittedly weak attempt at a joke. :o

Sodar
02-19-2008, 12:48 PM
Agreed. Though Erk once told me that the 197 sat lower in the water than my old 205, I think it's something everyone has happen once and, if they're careful, never again. Had it happen with my 205 once during the first couple of months of ownership.

Like I said, it was just an admittedly weak attempt at a joke. :o

Lower bow or not, I claim the Jeff and Eric are both whiners! :D :D :D

Sodar
02-19-2008, 12:49 PM
I do believe both Erkoehler and I can speak from experience on that, on seperate occasions on seperate boats. :rolleyes:

Erroneous on both counts!! :D :D :D

east tx skier
02-19-2008, 12:50 PM
Lower bow or not, I claim the Jeff and Eric are both whiners! :D :D :D

I'll go along with that. ;)

6ballsisall
02-19-2008, 12:51 PM
Lower bow or not, I claim the Sodar aka Cameron and Eric are both whiners! :D :D :D


I tend to agree.........;)

Sodar
02-19-2008, 12:54 PM
I tend to agree.........;)

Who is Sodarski, Jeff? I do not know that guy....

shepherd
02-19-2008, 12:55 PM
If Shepherd would just get back with his survey...........



Roads

Tonight (before dark) hopefully. I suppose you want pics too? :cool:

6ballsisall
02-19-2008, 12:56 PM
Who is Sodarski, Jeff? I do not know that guy....


You got me????? :confused: :D

bxroads
02-19-2008, 12:58 PM
Anyone want to buy an '83 S&S? Jody, the mechanic referenced above, just got off the water with it and said he couldn't believe how tight it is.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/bxroads/1983%20Mastercraft/IMG_1048.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/bxroads/1983%20Mastercraft/IMG_1064.jpg

bxroads
02-19-2008, 01:00 PM
Shep, pics would be awesome. You da man!






Roads

88 PS190
02-19-2008, 01:07 PM
you can dunk the nose of any boat, the one that does it to me more than any is the neighbor's Natique 196, if you go back through the waves with out a bit of throttle you get wet.

Ric
02-19-2008, 01:11 PM
oh ya, I seriously dunked the nose of my closed bow 90 supra comp. It was fun watching the wave come up the windhield but not fun watchin the water get all over my stuff...

Ric
02-19-2008, 01:12 PM
You got me????? :confused: :D I knew a radoski once...

88 PS190
02-19-2008, 01:15 PM
oh ya, I seriously dunked the nose of my closed bow 90 supra comp. It was fun watching the wave come up the windhield but not fun watchin the water get all over my stuff...

ha ha, Its better as the driver, I see that coming I jump up and stand so it doesn't land on my lap.

The rearwards facing people turn at stare at you just at the moment the wave nails them in the back.

in my 190 if I take a wave it comes more at the driver, in the 196 there is a much steeper windshield and the water hits them in the back.

It happens on lakes like the one we're on, big boats run down the middle, and you don't notice their wakes coming.

shepherd
02-19-2008, 02:45 PM
oh ya, I seriously dunked the nose of my closed bow 90 supra comp. It was fun watching the wave come up the windhield but not fun watchin the water get all over my stuff...

That happened a few times on my '90 PS 190. It was fun except that my radio didn't have a cover.

moleson10
02-19-2008, 04:35 PM
My 2cents is any 197 under $30k is a deal. Market price for an older 197(02-04) is that much or more. And boats that old will usually have at least a few hundred hours on them.

As for ride in chop, surprisingly, my 06 197 handles it as well or better than my old 92 ski nautique and that thing was a battleship. For a true flat bottom, I wasn't expecting that. It seems to be due to the extremely solid hull construction.

shepherd
02-19-2008, 09:51 PM
Anyone want to buy an '83 S&S? Jody, the mechanic referenced above, just got off the water with it and said he couldn't believe how tight it is.




That's a sharp boat. How does she ski? Any tracking or spray issues?

shepherd
02-19-2008, 09:56 PM
I looked at it this afternoon. My opinion is that the boat is a good deal at less than $30K, keeping in mind you usually get what you pay for. I don't know about it mechanically, but I know the mechanic who maintained it so I have no doubts about that. Cosmetically, she's a little rough, showing signs of ski school neglect. Lots of minor scratches and gouges all over the gel coat, gas stains around the filler cap, faded teak, etc. Interior looks great. Here's a pic:

shepherd
02-19-2008, 09:57 PM
Sample interior shot. Needs a good washing, but I didn't see any tears or stains.

shepherd
02-19-2008, 10:01 PM
I'll email the rest of the pics to you bx.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 10:05 PM
Shep, appreciate it VERY much. I hate to hear about the scratches but I guess, as you said, the price reflects that. It's shaping up that I may be down there at the boat/fishing show this weekend. If so, I think its at least worth swinging by to see it in the daylight and do some head scratching.

JohnnyB
02-19-2008, 10:12 PM
Nice lookin' boat....might be helpful to get pics of the scratches, gouges, etc to see what it would take to refurb and/or at least get a good idea before you drop $$ on a plane ticket.

Also, maybe an '07 owner can chime in, but I don't remember the observer seat seams looking like that....patch or recover job???

JohnE
02-19-2008, 10:12 PM
That happened a few times on my '90 PS 190. It was fun except that my radio didn't have a cover.

Ditto with my '89 190. Fried the radio immediately.

JohnnyB
02-19-2008, 10:14 PM
Anyone want to buy an '83 S&S? Jody, the mechanic referenced above, just got off the water with it and said he couldn't believe how tight it is.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/bxroads/1983%20Mastercraft/IMG_1048.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/bxroads/1983%20Mastercraft/IMG_1064.jpg

Very sweet looking S&S...what are you lookin' to get for it?

shepherd
02-19-2008, 10:18 PM
Nice lookin' boat....might be helpful to get pics of the scratches, gouges, etc to see what it would take to refurb and/or at least get a good idea before you drop $$ on a plane ticket.

Also, maybe an '07 owner can chime in, but I don't remember the observer seat seams looking like that....patch or recover job???

I'd bet the seats are stock.

My guess is that 90% of the scratches can be buffed out. If I was in the market, I'd seriously consider buying it. I was looking at the '06s the same seller had this time last year before I bought my current boat. They looked in similar shape as this one.

JohnE
02-19-2008, 10:19 PM
Shep, are the scratches/ gouges repairable with just wetsanding?

Still seems like a good deal.

edit: sorry, you answered while I was typing.

6ballsisall
02-19-2008, 10:20 PM
I'd bet the seats are stock.

My guess is that 90% of the scratches can be buffed out. If I was in the market, I'd seriously consider buying it. I was looking at the '06s the same seller had this time last year before I bought my current boat. They looked in similar shape as this one.


Under 30k for a new/almost new 197? Based on the above that nearly all scratches can be buffed out, buy it QUICK!

JohnE
02-19-2008, 10:32 PM
What's the deal with the talk about it being a Tournament Team? A misunderstanding?

JohnE
02-19-2008, 10:33 PM
500 hrs. sounds like an awful lot for being a year old. Just for perspective. I have a 2007 with less than 80 hours and that was with a 9-month SoCal boating season!

You clearly do not use it enough then.8p I put 125 on mine this year and didn't get it until mid May.:cool:

bxroads
02-19-2008, 10:40 PM
Johnny B,

It's not in perfect condition, there are about 3 spider webs (blisters) and two patches in the gelcoat. Still it doesn't look to darn bad for a boat that old that's been used. The engine is smooth as silk and uses absolutely no oil. The carb is jetted perfectly. I get absolutely no bog. It will accumulate water in the bilge but not to bad, the pump is not over worked. The water coming in is actually the reason I took it to Jody (the mechanic) for him to inspect. He put it on the water and noted that most of the leakage was due to the rudder seal which he is replacing. The boat also has brand new pipes and steering cable. The speedo's work perfectly. The entire interior is in great shape. I know of not one single thing that needs doing to it to be used regularly. If there was a problem, I had it fixed, its that simple.

As I've mentioned Jody put it on the water today and was very impressed. Feel free to give him a call if you are interested.

Right now I would not take less than $7000 for it.

bxroads
02-19-2008, 10:46 PM
What's the deal with the talk about it being a Tournament Team? A misunderstanding?.

Yes, a misunderstanding. He said it had more options than a Tournament Team.

east tx skier
02-19-2008, 11:18 PM
oh ya, I seriously dunked the nose of my closed bow 90 supra comp. It was fun watching the wave come up the windhield but not fun watchin the water get all over my stuff...

Supra Comps seem pretty prone to it. I haven't had any nose dives with the new ride yet.

I knew a radoski once...

The Big Sodarski a/k/a The Dude.

TI Skiier
02-19-2008, 11:59 PM
This boat handles the chop well for a ski boat. A night and day difference between my 05 X7 and my previous 92 PS 190.

shepherd
02-20-2008, 09:09 AM
Under 30k for a new/almost new 197? Based on the above that nearly all scratches can be buffed out, buy it QUICK!

I can't guarantee that all the flaws can be buffed out.

If you want a "puff boat" this one isn't for you. If you want a late model skiing machine, you probably won't be disappointed.

6ballsisall
02-20-2008, 09:28 AM
I can't guarantee that all the flaws can be buffed out.

If you want a "puff boat" this one isn't for you. If you want a late model skiing machine, you probably won't be disappointed.

Good dislaimer Shep. None the less, you can't beat the south of 30k price on the boat. Unless you want a trailer queen, this boat is a deal all day long provided she is mechanically sound. She'll make a GREAT course tug boat.

BrianM
02-20-2008, 09:35 AM
Hmm. With MCX and a Slot that sounds like a good deal. It is amazing what can be wet sanded and buffed out. Unless there is black showing in the scratch it should sand out. Sounds like with a good cleaning and some work and time on the outside you could have yourself a really nice tug.

east tx skier
02-20-2008, 12:01 PM
Hmm. With MCX and a Slot that sounds like a good deal. It is amazing what can be wet sanded and buffed out. Unless there is black showing in the scratch it should sand out. Sounds like with a good cleaning and some work and time on the outside you could have yourself a really nice tug.

... and even if there is some black showing through the scratch, a good glass guy can make that stuff disappear more often than not and for not a lot of money assuming the glass is only exposed and not damaged.

BrianM
02-20-2008, 01:33 PM
Roads sent me the closeup of the boat. I didn't see anything that didn't look like some wetsanding and a good buffing would take care of. With a little work it looks like it would shine like new.