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BrianM
02-17-2008, 06:35 PM
So... I got a break in the weather today and was actually able to get out and give the system another try. This time I was able to get in in the correst mode of GPS Slalom. As I said in the other thread the menu system leaves a lot to be desired as has always been the case with PP. That being said once you get it setup you won't need to messs with the sub menus very often. I still think that the speed should be the second thing you get to when hitting the menu button but oh well.

Conditions today were not optimal which as far as giving the system a workout was kind of a good thing. First set there was a 12-15mph head and tail wind on the course. Second set the wind died down a bit and was around 5mph. The way the wind was blowing on the course there was a little calm spot on one end of the course up to about half way between one and two ball . I skied 5 passes each set all at 36 mph at 22 and 28 off.

I had my bimini on the boat and the system had no trouble at all aquiring a signal. Once the boat was started it took about 2-3 seconds for the GPS lock to appear so the system is ready to go long before the rope even comes tight. There was just my driver in the boat and we had the crew weight set accurately.

Stargazer ran 16.08 or 16.07 every single pass we made through the course. So the accuracy of this thing even in challenging conditions is spot on. Ease of use in this situation was great. Set the crew weight and the speed and go. Our course has the old 6 magnet setup but I set the Stargazer for the new 2 magnet system and it worked great. You get accurate all buoy times with a little beep at each set of boat guides. Overall I do not think you could ask for much easier than that. If they could completely eliminate the need for entering the crew weight that would be optimal. Over time I hope to ski it some without entering crew weight at all and see if I can notice a difference in the pull or iff the accuracy of the times will suffer.

There is still a KX setting. There are 4 different settings -, normal, + and ++. I skied all passes in the normal setting and felt that the pull was very strong compared to my older 6.5n system. I admittedly was not sking the best today but still the pull felt a lot more firm. Next time I am going to ski it with the KX - and see if that softens it up a bit.

I also drove the boat around the lake some in trick and wakeboard mode although without anyone in tow. The system did seem to hold speed better than before. The most noticable difference being that it held a near perfect speed in the turns. So it looks like the need to hand throttle the boat in the turns, while pulling double ups etc is gone.

So my second day out was much better than the first. Installing the system was easy and calibration was simple as well but coming from a single line system the setup and menus had a bit of a learning curve. Now that everything is setup and I have the basic operation down things are going better. I'll update as I get more sets in behind it.

I attached a couple of photos of the install. The connector for the antenna needs a 5/16" hole to fit. I didn't want to drill the dash or take the dash pod out to run the wire so I decided to drill the hole in the bottom corner of the glove box and then mount the puck just in front of the lid. This was an easy place for the install and there was enough gap in the glovebox lid so there is no interference with the wire.

31603

31604

31605

31606

Jesus_Freak
02-17-2008, 06:57 PM
Sounds flawless. Thanks. Definitely keep us posted on your crew weight adjustment test. I have not really been following this on other threads...what is the cost of the upgrade?

BrianM
02-17-2008, 07:00 PM
what is the cost of the upgrade? MSRP for the upgrade is $429-469 (depending on boat) for the master module, chip and GPS antenna. New multi line display if you do not already have 6.5ng is $199. Available from various sources for less than MSRP so your mileage will vary.

east tx skier
02-17-2008, 07:46 PM
Great review, Brian. I've got fedex holding mine when it comes in so I can pick it up instead of waiting until Tuesday. Will install tomorrow and, weather and time permitting, try to get on the water tomorrow. Good news about the bimini. As for the menus, had you had any previous experience with the multiline gauge? I agree that it's not ideal, but something we'll have to live with a bit longer. As the pulls go, sounds like it's working as advertised so far.

Farmer Ted
02-17-2008, 11:55 PM
you may want to find another way to run your antenna cable

that's a shielded cable and by crimping it you will degrade the integrity of the shielding and increase the chance that you won't be getting a good signal

it's not a matter of if, rather when

if I remember correctly the minimum bend radius of a shielded wire is 7 times the OD of the wire

uawaterskier
02-18-2008, 12:06 AM
hmmm, I'd like to see how it compensates for line load in trick mode. Regular PP always felt jerky to me.

Ole Miss Rebels
02-18-2008, 12:49 AM
brian, my understanding was that stargazer ran by paddlewheel in wakeboard mode. we are wakeboarders only, never skiing behind our xstar. is it for use in wakeboard mode also or is it primarily for slalom mode? i tried to ge zero -off on my new xstar but it was unavailable at this time. i understand zero off has no set-up. just turn on and go and it is made for wakeboarding. thanks for the review. if it works for wakeboarding it would be worth the price of the upgrade.

jimmer2880
02-18-2008, 06:56 AM
Thanks for the great review. With any luck, I can convince Santa to bring me one this year :)

BrianM
02-18-2008, 09:29 AM
you may want to find another way to run your antenna cable

that's a shielded cable and by crimping it you will degrade the integrity of the shielding and increase the chance that you won't be getting a good signal

it's not a matter of if, rather when

if I remember correctly the minimum bend radius of a shielded wire is 7 times the OD of the wire
I hear you and thought about that. There are three or 4 very small wires inside that shielding. The shielding is kind of oversized and I am confident that the wires inside are just fine. That crimp is more of just a dent in the outside of the casing. There is really very little pressure from the glove box lid on the casing.
brian, my understanding was that stargazer ran by paddlewheel in wakeboard mode. we are wakeboarders only, never skiing behind our xstar. is it for use in wakeboard mode also or is it primarily for slalom mode? Stargazer runs off of the paddlewheel for wakeboard and trick but it constantly calibrates the speed with the GPS signal. So the accuracy of the speed is better which was confired to me by the now constant speed in the turns which requires no hand throttle like it did before.

MYMC
02-18-2008, 10:59 AM
I hear you and thought about that. There are three or 4 very small wires inside that shielding. The shielding is kind of oversized and I am confident that the wires inside are just fine. That crimp is more of just a dent in the outside of the casing. There is really very little pressure from the glove box lid on the casing.
Stargazer runs off of the paddlewheel for wakeboard and trick but it constantly calibrates the speed with the GPS signal. So the accuracy of the speed is better which was confired to me by the now constant speed in the turns which requires no hand throttle like it did before.
Nice review...great job.

east tx skier
02-18-2008, 12:39 PM
Well, after some work with Fed Ex, I picked mine up this morning (I had it shipped to the office and we are closed today). A big thanks to Mike at MC Charlotte for a great deal. Easiest thing I have ever installed. 20 minutes. I mounted mine right in front of my dash pod and ran the wire underneath. and across to the master module. So far, I've just played with the menus a bit. Unlike Brian, I am coming from 6.5ng and have gotten pretty used to the menus on the wide gauge over the last couple of years. Compared to 6.5ng, the menus in SG are much less cluttered. Plenty easy to navigate by comparison to 6.5 ng, but, of course, not as intuitive as my coffee maker or TV remote. I like having the water temp on the main screen when the system is off, too. Also, like 6.5 ng, there are menu shortcuts, i.e., highlight slalom and press the down arrow for a crew weight popup. I never memorized the number of menu hits to get to anything in the single line display, so I just don't think of it in that way (but know plenty of people who were similarly frustrated with their first couple of run throughs on the wide gauge. I'm off to get the boat wet. Just a few discreet pictures in the meantime of my antenna mount.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j262/dnortonames/PICT0035-1.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j262/dnortonames/PICT0036.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j262/dnortonames/PICT0037.jpg

6ballsisall
02-18-2008, 12:43 PM
C'mon Doug! We need some farther back shots of that beauty! Show us the full perspective of how the antenna looks on your G-ride!8p ;)

BrianM
02-18-2008, 12:49 PM
I like having the water temp on the main screen when the system is off, too.


I thought this was very cool too. With the system off the display shows water temp, speed, rpm and the time (which it pulls from the satelite). Pretty nice feature.

pq2
02-18-2008, 12:56 PM
Thanks Brian, great review.

east tx skier
02-18-2008, 05:23 PM
I thought this was very cool too. With the system off the display shows water temp, speed, rpm and the time (which it pulls from the satelite). Pretty nice feature.

Well, I'm back from the lake and I love SG. System locked on to the satellite within 3--4 minutes cold. Ran my baselines and similar to Brian, I was dealing with a pretty stiff wind. Only had to refer to the manual once to jar my memory as to how to get to the quick calibrate screen. Once the baselines were set, I switched to GPS mode and ran it into some stiff breezes and and light wind rollers. Times were good (the worst it got was .03 off of actual at 36 mph. System is very smooth with no gassing. I was solo and didn't ski. Water was 54 degrees, so I'm kind of glad I didn't have the opportunity.

I also ran it around in practice mode just to see how the menu was different. Held speed well. I'm really loving how the screen has been cleaned up. The controls are not the best (lack of an enter button comes to mind), but if I think about it like a mouse with left/right click, it's not bad.

The one thing I didn't check is if I can adjust the clock. For whatever reason, mine was two hours fast, which as far as GPS goes, makes not sense to me.

Overall, I think the system is great. I didn't have a chance to play with speed mode, but I can verify what BrianM said about it holding speed better in the turns. No more hand gassing required. Well done, Perfect Pass.

east tx skier
02-18-2008, 05:24 PM
C'mon Doug! We need some farther back shots of that beauty! Show us the full perspective of how the antenna looks on your G-ride!8p ;)

No can do, amigo. But I know you've seen it before.

BrianM
02-18-2008, 05:32 PM
The one thing I didn't check is if I can adjust the clock. For whatever reason, mine was two hours fast, which as far as GPS goes, makes not sense to me.
.
I actually called PP about the time this morning. You have to set your location in the GPS Info screen. Press the ^v buttons together then select GPS info which will allow you to change the clock.

east tx skier
02-18-2008, 05:36 PM
I actually called PP about the time this morning. You have to set your location in the GPS Info screen. Press the ^v buttons together then select GPS info which will allow you to change the clock.

Cool. Thanks, Brian. I knew it had to be wrong, but I was out on the lake thinking there was an off chance I was way late getting back.

Seems strange I should have to tell a GPS system where I am, but no biggie.

Also, it seems (without reading the manual) that they don't have the skier memory settings anymore. I guess all you're changing is the speed and crew weight so it's not really necessary. Am I right on this?

/EDIT. My mistake. Just changed my GPS settings and realized that there are still user settings in the "Quicklist." Also, in that list, there is a setting for skier weight. I suppose that is disregarded in GPS slalom, but still exists as part of "Classic Slalom."

BrianM
02-18-2008, 05:43 PM
Also, it seems (without reading the manual) that they don't have the skier memory settings anymore. I guess all you're changing is the speed and crew weight so it's not really necessary. Am I right on this?
There is still a skier memory. It is useless though if you ask me unless you have a bunch of people that you are regularly out with that use different modes (skier, wakeboarded, tricker). Otherwise it is a whole lot less key presses just to change the speed and KX if needed.

Edit: You were quicker in your edit than I was posting

6ballsisall
02-18-2008, 05:52 PM
No can do, amigo. But I know you've seen it before.


She's a real thing of beauty my friend! Just messin with you here. ;)

east tx skier
02-18-2008, 05:53 PM
There is still a skier memory. It is useless though if you ask me unless you have a bunch of people that you are regularly out with that use different modes (skier, wakeboarded, tricker). Otherwise it is a whole lot less key presses just to change the speed and KX if needed.

Edit: You were quicker in your edit than I was posting

I haven't checked, but in 6.5ng, there was a shortcut to get to skier memory. I think it was highlight "Slalom" and ^. In SG, the only thing I found there was hitting the down arrow with slalom highlighted and crew weight pops up. Press up, and it takes you to the slalom settings screen instead of skier memory.

Agree though, not a whole lot of use to it anymore since you can change the only two variables that matter from skier to skier, i.e., speed and Kx on the main screen.

BrianM
02-18-2008, 05:57 PM
She's a real thing of beauty my friend!
For a bathtub! :uglyhamme

6ballsisall
02-18-2008, 05:59 PM
For a bathtub! :uglyhamme

ROTFLMAO!!!!

I've always heard them referred to as "tanks" :D

I wouldn't think twice about owning one of them "bath tubs" given the right deal came around.

east tx skier
02-18-2008, 06:14 PM
She's a real thing of beauty my friend! Just messin with you here. ;)

Thanks. Just don't want to ruffle Sodar the Mod's feathers. ;)

6ballsisall
02-18-2008, 06:16 PM
Thanks. Just don't want to ruffle Sodar the Mod's feathers. ;)


Good point, you know how them Mods are. 8p Wouldn't want to get his feathers ruffled about his white/colorless boat vs. your Resale RED beauty. ;)

André
02-18-2008, 07:36 PM
For a bathtub! :uglyhamme
From a barge to a bathtub!;)
Nice review guys!
Even if most of the time i drop at each end of the course,sometime when a roller or another boat is coming near the course i ask my driver to turn around for one more pass.I don't really like to be spin around at 34 so we usually slow down to 28-30 anyway.
Seems like you guys like a constant speed for turnarounds.
Brian,at 36 ,35 off ,you'll be slingshot in a tight turn!!!:D
Do peoples with turning islands on manmade lakes slow downs in turns?
Anybody knows?
Doug ,54 f is bikini temp! 2 feet of ice here!

east tx skier
02-18-2008, 08:00 PM
For a bathtub! :uglyhamme

I take it as a compliment. She is clean!

You just have gear reduction envy!

BrianM
02-18-2008, 08:01 PM
I take it as a compliment. She is clean!

You just have gear reduction envy!
Maybe! :cool:

I don't really like to be spin around at 34 so we usually slow down to 28-30 anyway.
Seems like you guys like a constant speed for turnarounds.
Brian,at 36 ,35 off ,you'll be slingshot in a tight turn!!!:D
Do peoples with turning islands on manmade lakes slow downs in turns?

For slalom yes I slow the boat down in the turn. I was refering to slower wakeboard and trick speeds. Before if you didn't drive the turns by hand the paddle wheel would allow the boat to really slow down or speed up in the turn and to me at least it never seemed to do the same thing.. Now it seems to maintain a much more constant speed in the turn arounds at least at the slower speeds. I didn't try it at 36mph..

east tx skier
02-18-2008, 08:02 PM
From a barge to a bathtub!;)
Nice review guys!
Even if most of the time i drop at each end of the course,sometime when a roller or another boat is coming near the course i ask my driver to turn around for one more pass.I don't really like to be spin around at 34 so we usually slow down to 28-30 anyway.
Seems like you guys like a constant speed for turnarounds.
Brian,at 36 ,35 off ,you'll be slingshot in a tight turn!!!:D
Do peoples with turning islands on manmade lakes slow downs in turns?
Anybody knows?
Doug ,54 f is bikini temp! 2 feet of ice here!

The course we setup at my father in laws had a tight turn around and a short setup. If you slowed down, you sank at the end of the line. Hard and nasty was the only way to do it at that end. We haven't used that course in a while. The one we usually use, it's best to drop at each because it is not a typical barbell ski lake and benefits from some rest time.

east tx skier
02-18-2008, 08:13 PM
Maybe! :cool:



For slalom yes I slow the boat down in the turn. I was refering to slower wakeboard and trick speeds. Before if you didn't drive the turns by hand the paddle wheel would allow the boat to really slow down or speed up in the turn and to me at least it never seemed to do the same thing.. Now it seems to maintain a much more constant speed in the turn arounds at least at the slower speeds. I didn't try it at 36mph..

I think I did the turnaround at 30 mph. I didn't mess with any other modes today.

BrandonKTM
02-18-2008, 08:19 PM
Reminds me of a time I pulled a guy new to the course on a ski lake with turn islands. He pulled out like we do on the big lake as I turned at the island. He ended up going about 35 mph in 6 inchs of water about 1 foot from shore. Went fine until his fin hit a submerged rock and he went out the front and landed on the grassbank and then slid into water!

C36
02-18-2008, 08:41 PM
BrianM:

Nicely done - thanks for sharing. Hope the new system keeps serving you well. :)

shepherd
02-22-2008, 03:30 PM
Great reviews Brian and Doug. Thanks. I'm almost convinced to upgrade my system. I actually skied a short set behind a SG system last month. The driver (our local mechanic and PP dealer) asked me how it felt and my only thought was "It seemed fast." I guess that was due to the firmer pull you get with SG. He told me the times were right.

JohnE
02-22-2008, 03:44 PM
Im going to upgrade this year, too.

BrianM
03-01-2008, 06:08 PM
Got to get out and ski again today. Beautiful conditions this time. 70 degrees and glass water.:D:D Now that I have had about 6 sets in behind it I definitely say that the pull behind the boat is MUCH firmer than it was with the 6.5n. Still been skiing with it in KX normal mode. I made one pass with it in KX- hoping that the slower response would feel softer. That was not the case. In KX- the system would gas hard out of the ball. I could feel it behind the boat and my driver said you could feel and hear it in the boat as well. I also skied one pass in KX+ and theat felt about the same as the normal to me. Next time out I may try the ++. Times were all right on the money and although I have heard of some funny hot one balls and then slow three balls on other sites that was not the case with me. I was hoping this new system would actually soften up the pull a bit but that is definitely not the case. Very firm behind the boat.

barefoot
03-01-2008, 07:19 PM
John...when you upgrade, let me know. I'll buy your old system

Jesus_Freak
03-03-2008, 01:27 PM
Got to get out and ski again today. Beautiful conditions this time. 70 degrees and glass water.:D:D Now that I have had about 6 sets in behind it I definitely say that the pull behind the boat is MUCH firmer than it was with the 6.5n. Still been skiing with it in KX normal mode. I made one pass with it in KX- hoping that the slower response would feel softer. That was not the case. In KX- the system would gas hard out of the ball. I could feel it behind the boat and my driver said you could feel and hear it in the boat as well. I also skied one pass in KX+ and theat felt about the same as the normal to me. Next time out I may try the ++. Times were all right on the money and although I have heard of some funny hot one balls and then slow three balls on other sites that was not the case with me. I was hoping this new system would actually soften up the pull a bit but that is definitely not the case. Very firm behind the boat.

Thanks for the continued updates! What about the crew weight testing you were talking about?

BrianM
03-03-2008, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the continued updates! What about the crew weight testing you were talking about?
Haven't messed with that really. I did get good times and a consistent pull with only a very rough estimate of crew weight. I set it at 300 which depending on people in the boat was anywhere from close to as much as 60 or so lbs off.

bstrom-tt
03-03-2008, 06:02 PM
I thought I had read that StarGazer had a KX adjustment, but no PX. On mine, in the GPS auto mode, I can find no KX setting whatsoever.

Brian, as you stated, your Stargazer has KX... is that in the auto mode and/or classic mode. Does it show the KX setting on the main screen. What version StarGazer (Rev level) do you have.

Thanks for the help.

gchapman-tt
03-03-2008, 06:12 PM
Bill, there is no KX on DBW boats. Mechanical throttle boats do have KX adjustment.
Greg

I thought I had read that StarGazer had a KX adjustment, but no PX. On mine, in the GPS auto mode, I can find no KX setting whatsoever.

Brian, as you stated, your Stargazer has KX... is that in the auto mode and/or classic mode. Does it show the KX setting on the main screen. What version StarGazer (Rev level) do you have.

Thanks for the help.

BrianM
03-03-2008, 06:17 PM
Bill, there is no KX on DBW boats. Mechanical throttle boats do have KX adjustment.
Greg
This is my understanding as well. After talking to PP this morning next time out I will be running the KX at ++ to hopefully give the boat a softer feel.

erkoehler
03-03-2008, 06:49 PM
Just got the Stargazer in for the demo boat, can't wait to get it installed and have the ice melt!

Holtrodj
07-28-2011, 12:10 AM
This is my understanding as well. After talking to PP this morning next time out I will be running the KX at ++ to hopefully give the boat a softer feel.

I know this is a really old thread, but has anyone found a way to make Stargazer feel softer? I've been using SG for 2yr now. Took a set behind a friends older boat with the digital pro system and ran a new PB into 32 off at 36 mph this morning. Would love to find a way to get my SG system to feel that soft.

Any insight is appreciated.

BrianM
07-28-2011, 10:00 AM
In a word NO. Stargazer has a firmer pull than the old 6.x systems. It's the nature of GPS speed control. Try Zero Off a few sets and then your Stargazer will feel soft.

Holtrodj
07-28-2011, 10:32 AM
Have you adjusted the 0/1/3 ball times? PP asked me to recoded some all ball times so they could suggest some modifications to make it feel softer. Just courious if that road is worth going down...

BrianM
07-29-2011, 10:18 AM
Have you adjusted the 0/1/3 ball times? PP asked me to recoded some all ball times so they could suggest some modifications to make it feel softer. Just courious if that road is worth going down...
Yes! I spent a LOT of time with these settings when I first got the system. Out of the box Stargazer really felt like it was running away from you until 3 ball. Although it made each pass feel consistent through the six buoys I wouldn't say it feels any softer. Definitely work with those settings though because the overall pull will be better.

east tx skier
07-29-2011, 11:41 AM
Agreed. They make a big difference. I was lucky to get some from a SN owner that seemed to transfer nicely to my boat. Evened out the segments nicely.

BrianM
07-29-2011, 04:59 PM
What boat are you running? Year, model, engine, trans. If you can get some setting from someone with a similar setup you will save some time.

east tx skier
07-29-2011, 06:11 PM
What boat are you running? Year, model, engine, trans. If you can get some setting from someone with a similar setup you will save some time.

Exactly. I have a 98 SN with 310 hp, but the numbers from a 2007 SN with 330 hp seem to have worked really well without further adjustment.

Holtrodj
07-29-2011, 10:45 PM
I'm running a 1996 190. The 275 hp engine and the 1:1 transmission. Basically the same setup as BrianM, correct?

east tx skier
07-30-2011, 11:04 AM
That's what Brian is running in a 95 IIRC.

Holtrodj
07-30-2011, 11:13 AM
Not sure what IIRC is. Brian, do you have your settings recorded? Could I get those and start from there?

Thanks,

east tx skier
07-30-2011, 02:53 PM
Not sure what IIRC is. Brian, do you have your settings recorded? Could I get those and start from there?

Thanks,

Sorry. IIRC = If I recall correctly. My inner 11 year old was coming out.

BrianM
07-31-2011, 10:28 PM
Yep. I am have the 275 hp 1:1 in my 97. Don't have anything written down but will be glad to do it next time I am at the boat.

BrianM
08-08-2011, 11:49 AM
Figured I would post my Stargazer settings up here just in case someone else is interested. These are for my 1997 Prostar 190 with the TBI and 1:1 currently running an OJ XMP 13x11.5. Spent a lot of time on this setup and consider these numbers dialed on my boat. These are quite different from factory presets. Your mileage may very.

To access these setting you press the on/off and up arrow together. Pressing menu moves to the next setting up and down to change them.

Normal
Pre .60
Ball 1 16
Ball 3 12

Light
Pre .50
Ball 1 15
Ball 3 14

36 Normal
Pre. .60
ball 1 17
Ball 3 15

36 Light
Pre .50
Ball 1 15
Ball 3 14