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View Full Version : Calling Engine Nut!!


Hrkdrivr
02-13-2008, 09:29 AM
Engine Nut,

I have a 2004 Ford Excursion w/the 6.0 PSD. I met a guy who said he used a Diablo Sport Predator flash programmer on his (same) truck. He said with one of the tunes, he went from ~18 mpg to around 30 mpg. Needless to say, with the price of diesel as it is (why is it more expensive than gasoline now?!?), this got my attention.

I've been reading whatever I can find online and it's all pretty confusing. Everyone seems to think you can flash the memory, get better HP and/or mileage w/no ill effects to the engine.

My degree was in aeronautical engineering, propulsion specifically, so I know based on thermodynamics you don't get something for nothing. Better power might mean higher cylinder temperatures or pressures, higher exhaust temps, etc.

Diablo's web page says "DiabloSport strongly recommends the use of larger diameter performance exhaust components and exhaust temperature gauges with the use of any performance diesel tuning." This kinda jives w/my suspicions.

My engine still has ~13,000 miles on the 100,000 mile warranty; I'm thinking about playing around w/this once I hit 100,000 since I'm pretty sure it would void my warranty.

Do you have any experience w/flash tuners? Advice?

Thanks in advance. This forum has been a wealth of information. :D

flipper
02-13-2008, 09:37 AM
I have one in my dodge and it works great for power...MPG, not much difference. A pyrometer is a MUST!!! The egt can and will go through the roof if not careful. I can't stress that enough. I would check out edge performance, I like their products. There are others out there that are fool proof that will detune the engine if the egt's get to high. Mine does not, but I'm pretty careful about watching gauges.

ShamrockIV
02-13-2008, 09:39 AM
18 to 30???
man that is kinda unbelievable wouldn't you think??

flipper
02-13-2008, 09:40 AM
18 to 30???
man that is kinda unbelievable wouldn't you think??

18 on flat ground, 30 down hill?:D

lanier92prostar
02-13-2008, 09:50 AM
Anytime you tune the diesel to get more HP, you will raise the EGT's. You have to be careful with the tuning if you are towing. I have a HyperTech in my Duramax that is a 3 stage programmer. HyperTech only recommends towing in stage 1 or 2 with the weight I am towing unless I add an intercooler and upgrade the exhaust. I lost MPG's when I added HP. At stage 2 I lost 2MPG in the city and 4 on the highway, but I gained MPG while towing. I now get somewhere between 9 and 12 while towing 15K. I did a lot of research before I got one because of the expense of the tuner and the possible damage to the engine. Make sure you get the correct tuner for your application. The Edge is a great tuner, but you cannot tow in some of the stages of the tuner. It add too much HP and torque for the transmission to handle.

Hrkdrivr
02-13-2008, 09:56 AM
18 to 30???
man that is kinda unbelievable wouldn't you think??

Yeah. If it sounds too good to be true...

But it did get my attention.

Hrkdrivr
02-13-2008, 10:02 AM
A pyrometer is a MUST!!! The egt can and will go through the roof if not careful.

Flipper, what's a pyometer? Does it measure EGT going into the turbo?

flipper
02-13-2008, 10:14 AM
yes, it's a temp. probe that measures the egt....best to put it before the turbo. If your truck doesn't have a hole already, which mine didn't, you have to drill and tap a hole. DO NOT cut, or shorten the wires from the probe to the gauge, they are ohm sensitive, and will give you false readings. I put mine after the turbo, because it was easier, but probably is not quite accurate.

djhuff
02-13-2008, 10:17 AM
Tuner's won't void the warranty, you can just flash the computer back to stock tune if you need to take it in for anything and are worried. Magnuson Moss warranty act prevents the warranty from being voided unless they can prove that what you did caused a part to fail.

flipper
02-13-2008, 10:21 AM
Tuner's won't void the warranty, you can just flash the computer back to stock tune if you need to take it in for anything and are worried. Magnuson Moss warranty act prevents the warranty from being voided unless they can prove that what you did caused a part to fail.

A guy that I use to work with blew up a Ford, had a tuner, truck only had 10,000 miles, and they wouldn't cover it. Maybe he could have fought it, but didn't sound like it.

6ballsisall
02-13-2008, 11:43 AM
A guy that I use to work with blew up a Ford, had a tuner, truck only had 10,000 miles, and they wouldn't cover it. Maybe he could have fought it, but didn't sound like it.


I've got a fair amount of experience with tuning diesels (ok, it's been about 3 years- but I had a hoss Cummins at one point) Once you start tuning these things you can kiss the warranty good-bye. Chips, injectors, turbos, Water/Meth injection, all that junk will void it and the Magnuson Moss act isn't going to help you any.

As said earlier, before you mod a Dies, GET GAUGES. As Lanier said, Exhaust Gas Temps can get out of hand really fast, the last thing you want to do after tuning your truck (and voiding the warranty) is to do serious damage by not knowing whats going on with your engine. If you do it, put the EGT probe pre-turbo. It's a much more accurate reading of whats going on with the heat your Turbo is subjected too (and your engine is producing) Post turbo's work great for identifying the cool down temp before shutting down.

6ballsisall
02-13-2008, 11:45 AM
Tuner's won't void the warranty, you can just flash the computer back to stock tune if you need to take it in for anything and are worried. Magnuson Moss warranty act prevents the warranty from being voided unless they can prove that what you did caused a part to fail.


Believe me, they can prove it. I saw it happen to a close friend. Bottomline, you pay to play on this stuff.

lanier92prostar
02-13-2008, 01:26 PM
Tuner's won't void the warranty, you can just flash the computer back to stock tune if you need to take it in for anything and are worried. Magnuson Moss warranty act prevents the warranty from being voided unless they can prove that what you did caused a part to fail.
The dealers can always find something that the tuner did that voided the warranty. Then you get in the middle of a battle between the tuner brand and the dealer as to who is at fault. Generally, you always lose the battle and you are out the money.

djhuff
02-13-2008, 02:33 PM
With regard to deisels, since you are raising the EGTs by so much, I can see where it would be easy to prove.

What you all are talking about doing I could definately see saying bye bye to the warranty, if you tore it up. Sorry, I wasn't thinking about the deisel angle, gas engines really don't have anything you can do with a tune that will cause catastrophic failure.

Most catastrophic failures talked about on here comes from incorrectly tuning the engine (over boost on the turbo, causing excessive EGTs) and I definately can see that being linked to the tuner.

However, if you put a tuner on (or even a whole custom exhaust) and the alternator goes bad... then your alternator is still covered.

6ballsisall
02-13-2008, 02:40 PM
With regard to deisels, since you are raising the EGTs by so much, I can see where it would be easy to prove.

What you all are talking about doing I could definately see saying bye bye to the warranty, if you tore it up. Sorry, I wasn't thinking about the deisel angle, gas engines really don't have anything you can do with a tune that will cause catastrophic failure.

Most catastrophic failures talked about on here comes from incorrectly tuning the engine (over boost on the turbo, causing excessive EGTs) and I definately can see that being linked to the tuner.

However, if you put a tuner on (or even a whole custom exhaust) and the alternator goes bad... then your alternator is still covered.


One would think that to be the case. In most cases that would probably be true. HOwever, I know of several people that got blackballed from the dealerships for any warranty work (the also note it on their account which can be pulled from any dealership) I was fortunate that I found a dealer that thought Mods were "cool" and in one situation with a blown intake gasket they could have voided my warranty easily (read: 55psi) but they didn't and helped me out. However, I was fully prepared to foot the bill on that gasket.

Bottom line, doing these types of mods on a gasser and or Dies puts them outside of the operating range in which the manufacturer sold them to you as. Trying to "hide" it from them is fraud when you get down to it. You gotta pay to play!;)

flipper
02-13-2008, 02:43 PM
It's the amount of fuel that the tuner allows, and most of them advance the timeing. The more fuel you give, the more air it will take, the more heat, and if not careful, probably melt a piston. If you watch the egt, and keep you foot out of it when towing, or going up a grade, you'll be fine.

kurtr
02-13-2008, 04:18 PM
A good friend of mine had a F350 superduty with the 6.0 in it and every time he would bring it in for any warranty work the first question they would ask was if he had chipped it. The service techs claimed that they could tell which engines had been "chipped" from the ECM when they would read it.

6ballsisall
02-13-2008, 04:52 PM
A good friend of mine had a F350 superduty with the 6.0 in it and every time he would bring it in for any warranty work the first question they would ask was if he had chipped it. The service techs claimed that they could tell which engines had been "chipped" from the ECM when they would read it.


That is true.........