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jdrewno
01-30-2008, 04:38 PM
considering buying a very clean 1993 stars & stripes with 285HP and 900 hours in very excellent condition.

does anyone know anything about this boat, amount of engine hours, and reasonable price?

anyone have this boat or know someone who does?

flipper
01-30-2008, 04:41 PM
I have a '91, which is pretty much the same. Engine hours depends on the life the motor has had, and price depends on a lot of things

Ben
01-30-2008, 04:45 PM
I see you are new, welcome. You will find that is a very well liked boat on this board, especially for slalom. You will also find there is a lot of knowledge / detail on this board. I suggest you post pics of the boat for review (if possible). Also, inquire on maintentance history and how/where the boat was used. From that, you should get a lot of feedback, probably even sime price suggestions if you don't want to post the price on here.

east tx skier
01-30-2008, 06:04 PM
I love that boat. I'd expect to see it in the $14K range just as a guess assuming it's in good shape. Maybe less due to a bit higher hours.

A couple of things. Does it have the stock carb (dual fuel line). If so, lake test it hard with lots of shut downs, restarts, and idling. My 4010 carb was a nightmare for us, even after a rebuild.

Also, check the brake fluid on the trailer. In 93, they wrapped the brake lines in a rubber sheath and rusting out was very common.

As for things to look for generally, this (http://www.easttxskier.com/usedboat.html) may help.

Muttley
01-30-2008, 06:11 PM
I bought a '92 PS205, and I think the only difference is that the '93 had FI.

Even if it's in good shape, with that many hours you should not go over $12K, IMO. If it's pristine, maybe *** high as $14K. My bow rider had 400 hours and I got it for $12,200, but that's the exception.

Muttley
01-30-2008, 06:11 PM
Hmmm.. double post.

rodltg2
01-30-2008, 06:15 PM
i agree with muttley, i would offer less even. boat is worth about 10-11max. unless you really have to have it.

parrish1
01-30-2008, 09:46 PM
I have a 93 Stars and Stripes, paid 14k for it with 350hours. It was in very good condition except for stitching coming loose on passenger seat and keel had some scrape damage that needed minor gelcoat repair. Trailer brakes as eastie said neeed attention. I replaced master cylinder and entire wheel brake assymbly just because it wasnt a major investment verses changing brake shoes. I have too had carb issues and replaced 4010 with 4560( I believe) which uses single fuel line feed. Easy job but worth it considering it now has zero issues with hot starts, etc. Awesome boat, I put perfect pass on it and love the slalom wake.

jdrewno
01-30-2008, 10:55 PM
I have a 93 Stars and Stripes, paid 14k for it with 350hours. It was in very good condition except for stitching coming loose on passenger seat and keel had some scrape damage that needed minor gelcoat repair. Trailer brakes as eastie said neeed attention. I replaced master cylinder and entire wheel brake assymbly just because it wasnt a major investment verses changing brake shoes. I have too had carb issues and replaced 4010 with 4560( I believe) which uses single fuel line feed. Easy job but worth it considering it now has zero issues with hot starts, etc. Awesome boat, I put perfect pass on it and love the slalom wake.
thanks, good info. what year did you purchase your boat? Is the boat hard to start in the colder weather. i live in Michigan and ski and foot into october whent the morning temps reach 50-60 degrees F. what do you think.

they want 14,000 for a perfect "10" boat. the owner/dealer wants to overhaul the carb and install a new distributor before i take possession. is this what you are referring to?

east tx skier
01-30-2008, 11:16 PM
If it's the original carb, try to work a deal for a Holley 4160. The stock carb was a 4010. It wasn't so much cold starts as it was heat sensitive. Once it got warmed up, it would be come hard to start and idled terribly.

Is it blue or red?

jdrewno
01-31-2008, 01:02 AM
RED, and yes thank you very much. your advice is incredibly helpful.

the boat presents as new, the interior, hull, engine, interior. i think that the mc dealer who owns it must have pulled it out of the water after each usage. to answer your question, the boat is red. you are correct, the dealer/owner of the marina has seemed to indicate what you are saying in that it didn't idle as well as it could. the hours do concern me a bit but with everything looking new i can tell the boat has been well cared for. he said he wants to overhaul the carb - you seem to indicate that it needs to be replaced - i assume with the one hose running into it rather than the two as suggested above - is this correct? any idea what the approximate cost of this work would be if i had it done on the outside by a reputable mc mechanic? if he is unwilling to do what you suggest, i will likely ask him for a reduction in the already negotiated price. he was originally asking 15,000 and i offerd him 12000. he walked away from the transaction at 14000, but agreed to throw in a new barefoot boom and provide a 30 day warranty from when i pick up the boat in the spring for which he will cover any issues that may arise. he is also going to put on a new distributor - should i make anything of this and or have you had any problems with your distributor? i will await your guidance.
thanks

rem_pss308
01-31-2008, 01:49 AM
I had my carb rebuilt by Holley, it was gone about a week, maybe two. Runs great, Price was around $300.00


NADA on that boat is closer to $11,000
as stated above, if its in great shape, you might not mind paying more.

900 hours isnt bad. ( if engine maint was done )

I have over 1500 on mine and no problems other than carb, starter, alternator.

rem_pss308
01-31-2008, 01:50 AM
That NADA is just for the boat, No trailer included.

H20skeefreek
01-31-2008, 07:28 AM
It's hard for me to say, for several reasons....I am IN LOVE with that boat, so if I had the money, I'd probably pay full price but ONLY if it had the LT1. Since this boat doesn't, it wouldn't interest me nearly as much, and I wouldn't take delivery at all with that 4010 carb on it for 14k. Maybe 13k with the warranty, NEW barefoot boom (not something he's got laying around) and have him throw in an extended pylon.

On the other hand the 91-94 hull is considered to be one of the best, so it should bring a premium.

So basically, if you are comfortable with the price......just buy it, but definitely fight for the 4160 carb. Thanks for your question. You are welcome to have me confuse you even more. I decided to not even post this b/c I didn't really give you advice either way, but then again, I'd already typed so much, I thought it would be a waste of time if I didn't.

Post pictures if you get a chance!

east tx skier
01-31-2008, 10:11 AM
RED, and yes thank you very much. your advice is incredibly helpful.

the boat presents as new, the interior, hull, engine, interior. i think that the mc dealer who owns it must have pulled it out of the water after each usage. to answer your question, the boat is red. you are correct, the dealer/owner of the marina has seemed to indicate what you are saying in that it didn't idle as well as it could. the hours do concern me a bit but with everything looking new i can tell the boat has been well cared for. he said he wants to overhaul the carb - you seem to indicate that it needs to be replaced - i assume with the one hose running into it rather than the two as suggested above - is this correct? any idea what the approximate cost of this work would be if i had it done on the outside by a reputable mc mechanic? if he is unwilling to do what you suggest, i will likely ask him for a reduction in the already negotiated price. he was originally asking 15,000 and i offerd him 12000. he walked away from the transaction at 14000, but agreed to throw in a new barefoot boom and provide a 30 day warranty from when i pick up the boat in the spring for which he will cover any issues that may arise. he is also going to put on a new distributor - should i make anything of this and or have you had any problems with your distributor? i will await your guidance.
thanks

A rebuild/overhaul will not solve the issues with that carb. Some swear they can work with it, but that was never my experience, even after a professional rebuild by a tournament inboard mechanic who I trust very much. Having owned a boat with a 4010, I will never own another one with it. The 4160 replacement (single feed) is the only way to go in my humble opinion. My distributor was never a problem on mine (I only replaced the cap and rotor at tune up). I sold my boat with 632 hours and it was running strong as always.

As for price, Skidim sells the carb for $500 and it will require a new fuel line (their price for a flexible fuel line seems rather high compared to what I paid for a solid one when they were readily available). You could probably get both for less or get a remanufactured 4160 and feel good about the deal.

It is my opinion that that boat, assuming good condition, is worth more than book and if he holds out, he will probably get $14K, especially with the red one as they seem to come up for sale a little less frequently. I agree that with the LT1, I'd have probably paid $15K for that boat assuming it is truly immaculate.

parrish1
01-31-2008, 08:09 PM
Mine is blue, I bought it 2 yrs ago. I'd offer him 13500 and he gives you nothing. Then spend the 500 for 4160 and fuel line and do it yourself. You have it all then. Good luck.

mayo93prostar
01-31-2008, 10:39 PM
I bought my 93 blue s&s 1.5 years ago with 350 hours on it in great shape other than some rust on the tranny and trailer brakes totally shot. I suggest around 13k and eastie has good points on carb, which I have had trouble with. they are far and few between so if you like it, get it but try to negotiate some. the 91-94 hull is one of the best for slalom so this is a factor too if you slalom alot. and pleeease do not put a tower on it because it is a classic slalom machine. good luck buying it and enjoy it.

parrish1
02-01-2008, 08:25 AM
Amen to NO TOWER on the S&S. Use a fly high but no tower.

jipster43
10-01-2009, 07:32 PM
I'm looking at a 1993 S&S that has very low hours, but the fella' says it is very cold blooded. Like - he needs to warm it up for 5-10 minutes or else it will stall. Is this indicative of the 4010 carb?

Thanks fer yer help!

JP :)

jipster43
10-05-2009, 05:15 PM
Also, I thought EFI came standard on all 1993 Prostar 190's. Am I wrong there?

Thanks again!

JP :)

Ryan
10-05-2009, 05:32 PM
Also, I thought EFI came standard on all 1993 Prostar 190's. Am I wrong there?

Thanks again!

JP :)

Not unless you get one of the rare '93 that has the LT1 Corvette engine. '94 was the conversion year to EFI as standard.

EricB
10-05-2009, 05:47 PM
I was in the market for another MC last spring. The 2 boats I considered were the 1993 S&S or the 1998 Anniversary edition. Either way, if I chose the 93 it needed to be FI. I did alot of looking. I ended up with a 98 Ann. edition, but the advice I have for you is that 14K is way too high for a carbed boat.

Do some searching. If you're willing to travel you can get a much better price. It's used and I doubt the dealer is going to provide a warranty that you're comfortable with since you have less than a month left of water time.

east tx skier
10-05-2009, 08:29 PM
I'm looking at a 1993 S&S that has very low hours, but the fella' says it is very cold blooded. Like - he needs to warm it up for 5-10 minutes or else it will stall. Is this indicative of the 4010 carb?

Thanks fer yer help!

JP :)

No. If it's in a colder client, some warm up is required for a carbed boat (any carbed boat). That probably means a good couple of minutes at idle on the trailer.

Even a fuel injected boat needs to be warmed up before it is run hard though. That tends to take 5 minutes and up. Fuel injection is a wonderful thing. But I'd take a carb'd 93 S&S in otherwise good condition in a heartbeat. Fantastic hull for slalom (the best MC hull ever made in my opinion) and a really great looking boat t'boot.

mayo93prostar
10-05-2009, 09:27 PM
I have a blue 93 stars and stripes with the 285 HO engine with the troublesome model carb. I have had pretty good luck with mine running OK. It starts right up the first time but then tougher when it is hot. EFI was an option to get the LT1 motor. Great boat.

Jeff Lyman
10-05-2009, 10:23 PM
My 93 PS 205 has the optional HO engine. I have owned now for 3 years and the boat is excellent paid $12.5 with MC trailer, 3 years ago with 1100 hours if this helps you out. I found the boat here at this site infact. Now with 1290 hours I can tell you the 4010 carb is a bit of a pain. I rebuilt the carb this summer with a $140 rebuild kit. Since that the carb has only a few misses and no starts only when warm. A must and maybe a trick to set up and adjustment was to set the float levels to the highest point possible with out overflowing and turn out the air adjusting screws out to around 3. It is a 90% improvement over before the rebuild. I did gain holeshot punch with the rebuilt carb the boat will rip your arms off and NO powerslot!

On the wake issue for slalom skiing. It is very good compared to other MC's and much better than pre 90's boats. Very speed and weight sensitive though, must keep weight equalized. Speed is an issue below 30 on GPS. The wake grows extremely at the slower speeds, anything above 32 your all set. As an aggressive course and freestyle skier that has skied behind a few other boats many times I can atest my MC is only a number 2 when wakes are a concern. The BU is a bit softer but same height as the MC, that soft wake is alot eaiser pulling hard across to the next bouye. The chine spray is a bit of a face wash on the short line but I guess you get use to it.

Great choice lets see some pics when you get it.

jipster43
10-05-2009, 10:40 PM
Thanks fellas! That answers a lot of my questions. What's the difference in fuel economy between the 351 ford and the LT1?

JP :)

thatsmrmastercraft
10-06-2009, 10:45 AM
My 93 PS 205 has the optional HO engine. I have owned now for 3 years and the boat is excellent paid $12.5 with MC trailer, 3 years ago with 1100 hours if this helps you out. I found the boat here at this site infact. Now with 1290 hours I can tell you the 4010 carb is a bit of a pain. I rebuilt the carb this summer with a $140 rebuild kit. Since that the carb has only a few misses and no starts only when warm. A must and maybe a trick to set up and adjustment was to set the float levels to the highest point possible with out overflowing and turn out the air adjusting screws out to around 3. It is a 90% improvement over before the rebuild. I did gain holeshot punch with the rebuilt carb the boat will rip your arms off and NO powerslot!

On the wake issue for slalom skiing. It is very good compared to other MC's and much better than pre 90's boats. Very speed and weight sensitive though, must keep weight equalized. Speed is an issue below 30 on GPS. The wake grows extremely at the slower speeds, anything above 32 your all set. As an aggressive course and freestyle skier that has skied behind a few other boats many times I can atest my MC is only a number 2 when wakes are a concern. The BU is a bit softer but same height as the MC, that soft wake is alot eaiser pulling hard across to the next bouye. The chine spray is a bit of a face wash on the short line but I guess you get use to it.

Great choice lets see some pics when you get it.

That is the correct float adjustment. As for the mixture screw setting at three turns out, if it runs great like that you probably were way too lean before making the change. Simple proper adjustment for the mixture screws is to adjust each side equally to reach the highest idle speed, adjust the idle screw to reset the idle speed to the correct speed, then fine tune the mixture screws again searching for the highest idle speed.