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jsonova99
03-23-2005, 08:44 AM
Has anybody seen this thing yet? A new Shelby GT500 mustang. Pretty sweet.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/18/Autos/ford_shelby_gt500/index.htm?
cnn=yes

MarkP
03-23-2005, 08:49 AM
WOW, that is sweet!!!

ski_king
03-23-2005, 09:04 AM
I want one!!!

86PowerSlot190MC
03-23-2005, 09:14 AM
Has anybody seen this thing yet? A new Shelby GT500 mustang. Pretty sweet.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/18/Autos/ford_shelby_gt500/index.htm?
cnn=yes

Do you think that engine will fit into a MC :D

H20skeefreek
03-23-2005, 10:05 AM
Do you think that engine will fit into a MC :D
my thoughts exactly, but the answer is probably no. the ford mod motors are VERY wide compared to the small block chevy.

jsonova99
03-23-2005, 10:06 AM
my thoughts exactly, but the answer is probably no. the ford mod motors are VERY wide compared to the small block chevy.


Out of curiousity, why did Indmar get away from Ford engines?

H20skeefreek
03-23-2005, 10:08 AM
because ford wasn't interested any more. They don't make any marine engines. Even volvo I/O engines (owned by Ford) use chevy blocks.

a few years ago, i was looking at getting into the comp boat market, making ski boats. I even had the cad imaging for the hull jigs drawn up, I wanted to use ford 4.6 blocks, but the cost to marinize the ford block was very high. to be competitive on interior space with the big guys (MC, CC, 'Bu) the boat was going to have to be really wide to make room for the engine.

jsonova99
03-23-2005, 10:18 AM
because ford wasn't interested any more. They don't make any marine engines. Even volvo I/O engines (owned by Ford) use chevy blocks.

a few years ago, i was looking at getting into the comp boat market, making ski boats. I even had the cad imaging for the hull jigs drawn up, I wanted to use ford 4.6 blocks, but the cost to marinize the ford block was very high. to be competitive on interior space with the big guys (MC, CC, 'Bu) the boat was going to have to be really wide to make room for the engine.


That's interesting. I would think you'd be better off just flat out buying engines from PCM or Indmar than developing them yourself. Spend the time and money on boat design. Then again engines are fun to play with!

H20skeefreek
03-23-2005, 11:10 AM
And I had decided to do just that. If I had gone ahead I would have purchased 350's from PCM. the cad designs were built around a PCM.

I had some GREAT ideas,I had designed something similar to the Malibu XTI's, 2 or 3 years before they did. and had a Naval Engineer ready to come work for me, but that market is virtually impenetrable. Look how long it took for Malibu to become a real player in the game. their boat used to suck. I was going to build something similar to a Malibu, for the price of a Moomba. But no matter how high the quality is, at a low price, strangely enough, people won't buy.

Mag_Red
03-23-2005, 11:53 AM
As former Vette owner, I have to admit it's a great bang for the buck! :steering: I wonder how well it will handle?

6ballsisall
03-23-2005, 12:12 PM
And I had decided to do just that. If I had gone ahead I would have purchased 350's from PCM. the cad designs were built around a PCM.

I had some GREAT ideas,I had designed something similar to the Malibu XTI's, 2 or 3 years before they did. and had a Naval Engineer ready to come work for me, but that market is virtually impenetrable. Look how long it took for Malibu to become a real player in the game. their boat used to suck. I was going to build something similar to a Malibu, for the price of a Moomba. But no matter how high the quality is, at a low price, strangely enough, people won't buy.

I think this is a very true statement. Being a marketing guy I would be interested to see recent demographic studies on watersport enthusiasts. My speculation would be that the occasional tuber, waterskier, and family fishing group would be buying an I/O in the price point of a Moomba or less $$. Those who are looking for a true ski boat typically are willing to give up the amenities and comforts of an I/O to get the performance of an inboard. Manufacturers know this and can charge more and put more into a Comp Ski boat. :twocents:

Brn85ss
03-23-2005, 12:49 PM
I think this is a very true statement. Being a marketing guy I would be interested to see recent demographic studies on watersport enthusiasts. My speculation would be that the occasional tuber, waterskier, and family fishing group would be buying an I/O in the price point of a Moomba or less $$. Those who are looking for a true ski boat typically are willing to give up the amenities and comforts of an I/O to get the performance of an inboard. Manufacturers know this and can charge more and put more into a Comp Ski boat. :twocents:
I got out of skiing about 7-8 years ago and decided to go looking for a comp boat about 2 years ago and was shocked how much the market had changed in that time frame.My old dealer hang outs all no longer carried any comp boats at all.They all said the same story that when wake boading came along people stopped buying comp. boats and started buying i/o's that did everthing well but nothing great.No one cares about a flat wake with a boat full of little kids and everbody wants to board.Plus they are alittle cheaper.

Mag_Red
03-23-2005, 12:49 PM
I think this is a very true statement. Being a marketing guy I would be interested to see recent demographic studies on watersport enthusiasts. My speculation would be that the occasional tuber, waterskier, and family fishing group would be buying an I/O in the price point of a Moomba or less $$. Those who are looking for a true ski boat typically are willing to give up the amenities and comforts of an I/O to get the performance of an inboard. Manufacturers know this and can charge more and put more into a Comp Ski boat. :twocents: Makes sense, but I know for a fact there was some one on this Forum sitting in a Momba at a local boat show...............so your reasoning may be a little off. :D

6ballsisall
03-23-2005, 01:08 PM
Makes sense, but I know for a fact there was some one on this Forum sitting in a Momba at a local boat show...............so your reasoning may be a little off. :D


Oh man I am never going to live that one down!!! :uglyhamme Anyone have a time machine??

milkmania
03-23-2005, 08:03 PM
the most powerful Mustang ever

whoo yah!!! I want one....and Fords are not my first vehicle of choice:steering:

Farmer Ted
03-23-2005, 08:27 PM
Oh man I am never going to live that one down!!! :uglyhamme Anyone have a time machine??


It' s OK dude, I dated a fat chick once.... and went out in public with her (only when she was paying though)

FT

lakes Rick
03-24-2005, 06:19 PM
I believe the full switch to chev over ford engines was due to ford going to aluminum head/iron block modular motor.. This combination of metals is a bad engine when it comes to raw water cooling.. I believe the heads will actually act as a sacrificial anode..

At the time of the switch, one of the marinizers ( Indmar or Pcm) purchased ALL the ford small blocks ( 302/351) they could get there hands on, knowing these would be all thats left....

Fresh water closed cooling systems work OK for a disimilar metaled engine... My 02 cents....

AirJunky
03-24-2005, 06:52 PM
At the time of the switch, one of the marinizers ( Indmar or Pcm) purchased ALL the ford small blocks ( 302/351) they could get there hands on, knowing these would be all thats left....

That was PCM. Not sure about the 302s, but the 351s for sure. As I recall CC was still using those motors till just a couple of years ago.

ski36short
03-24-2005, 07:18 PM
[QUOTE=lakes Rick]I believe the full switch to chev over ford engines was due to ford going to aluminum head/iron block modular motor.. This combination of metals is a bad engine when it comes to raw water cooling.. I believe the heads will actually act as a sacrificial anode..

Oops, looks like I screwed something up with the quote!

Can't be true. The LT1 is Al head/iron block with freshwater cooling. There was lots of wailing about that on other boards a few years ago, largely by Nautique zealots. I'm sure it's not a good idea to run in salt or brackish water but freshwater seems to be working out OK for them durability-wise.

It's more because the Fords are huge, heavy, expensive, suck gas, make no power naturally aspirated, and probably can't handle marine loads. Back in the day when they were running out of 351s PCM rejected the 5.4 so Ford said "fine, we'll marinize our own". See how far that got? I'll bet the bottom end couldn't hang in a boat. The Al couldn't even handle pressure, that's why the 2003 Cobra was iron block. It seems as though they've figured it out though. Finally.

captkidd
03-25-2005, 08:10 AM
New Shelby Mustang: AWESOME!

Starting a new ski boat company: tough. Anyone seen the 2005 Toyota Epic, Ski Ray, Infinity, etc., models? I could be wrong, but I don't think they exist. Even Toyota and Sea Ray couldn't infiltrate the comp ski boat market, and Infinity was started by the same guy who founded MC. Every year you'll see some new companies come in a some pretty new ones go out; it certainly appears to be a tough market to carve a niche in.

jsonova99
03-25-2005, 08:14 AM
New Shelby Mustang: AWESOME!

Starting a new ski boat company: tough. Anyone seen the 2005 Toyota Epic, Ski Ray, Infinity, etc., models? I could be wrong, but I don't think they exist. Even Toyota and Sea Ray couldn't infiltrate the comp ski boat market, and Infinity was started by the same guy who founded MC. Every year you'll see some new companies come in a some pretty new ones go out; it certainly appears to be a tough market to carve a niche in.

Probably because of how specialized of a market. Trying to compete with Sea Ray or Bayliner on general family boating would be a much simpler task in my opinion. Speaking of the Toyota Epic though, that Lexus engine would be nice. Toyota reliability in a boat engine :)

SteveO
03-25-2005, 08:29 AM
Great to see a true Shelby will soon be on the road again. Ford did a nice job on the new stang. Their is a sweet tricked out blue stang in my area and I do a double take every time I see it. The Shelby seem like a lot of bag for the buck.

jsonova99
03-25-2005, 08:30 AM
Where's Chevy's response? I say bring back the ZR-1

ski36short
03-25-2005, 12:02 PM
Where's Chevy's response? I say bring back the ZR-1

Can you say "Z06"?? 427 cid 500 hp small block, independant rear suspension, carbon fiber fenders, and the list goes on. I think performance estimates are 3.5 seconds 0-60, quarter mile in the 11s, and a top speed approaching 200. There was a red one in the garage the other day - it's fabulous and I want one in black.

http://corvettefever.com/techarticles/corp_0504_ls7/

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvettez06/

JEREMY79
03-25-2005, 12:13 PM
Yeah, but Ford went Retro. I say bring back the Camaro say 67-69
That would be nice

bcampbe7
03-25-2005, 12:25 PM
Can you say "Z06"?? 427 cid 500 hp small block, independant rear suspension, carbon fiber fenders, and the list goes on. I think performance estimates are 3.5 seconds 0-60, quarter mile in the 11s, and a top speed approaching 200. There was a red one in the garage the other day - it's fabulous and I want one in black.

http://corvettefever.com/techarticles/corp_0504_ls7/

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvettez06/

What about a Chevy response in the same price ballpark of the GT500? The GT500 is suppose to be priced at just over $37,000 (not sure if that is a reality or not). I would guess the Z06 will be well over $50,000.

86PowerSlot190MC
03-25-2005, 12:35 PM
All I can say is "if i had the money", my choice would be on the BMW M5 (http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_m5.asp) !! I know its not a sports car but it has the hart of a F1 car. 301 cid 507 hp V10, 383 lb-ft at 6100 rpm torque. 8250 rpm redline, 0-62 mph 4.7 seconds (the car dose weigh 3868 lb) and a limited top speed of 155mph (unlimited 205 mph). Plus it has the all new world’s first production car seven-speed sequential gearbox with Drivelogic, changing gears 20 per cent faster than the previous generation sequential gearbox. :love: :love:

And next year the same set up will be in the BMW M6. (http://www.bmwworld.com/models/6er/m6/index.htm) :love: :love:

Mag_Red
03-25-2005, 12:36 PM
What about a Chevy response in the same price ballpark of the GT500? The GT500 is suppose to be priced at just over $37,000 (not sure if that is a reality or not). I would guess the Z06 will be well over $50,000.Right now, the GM car that would be comparable to the Ford would be the GTO.(400HP LS2) The Z06 will be anywhere around $65,00-$73,000. The base C6 Vette aready topped the 911 in tests..........The Z06 competition will be cars more along the line of the GT3 Porsche (guessing here on model #) :twocents:

jsonova99
03-25-2005, 12:44 PM
General Motors dropped the ball on the design of the body on the new GTO. The 400HP is great, but it looks like a grand am. They should have gone retro like Ford has :twocents:

bcampbe7
03-25-2005, 12:45 PM
The Z06 competition will be cars more along the line of the GT3 Porsche (guessing here on model #) :twocents:

How 'bout the Viper?

bcampbe7
03-25-2005, 12:46 PM
General Motors dropped the ball on the design of the body on the new GTO. The 400HP is great, but it looks like a grand am. They should have gone retro like Ford has :twocents:

Agreed... With the GT500 you not only get the power, you also get the styling.

Anyone know how many GT500's Ford plans to produce?

Mag_Red
03-25-2005, 12:52 PM
How 'bout the Viper?TheViper guys have all about admitted defeat already......check out their boards :steering:

jsonova99
03-25-2005, 12:58 PM
Yeah, but Ford went Retro. I say bring back the Camaro say 67-69
That would be nice


Funny you say that, they are supposed to bring back a retro camaro. I saw pictures of it, let me see if I can find it again.

jsonova99
03-25-2005, 01:01 PM
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/

Here it is, fifth generation camaro.

Mag_Red
03-25-2005, 01:09 PM
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/

Here it is, fifth generation camaro.Sweet! :headbang:

bcampbe7
03-25-2005, 01:11 PM
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0312PHR_Fifth_Reloaded/

Here it is, fifth generation camaro.


That looks sweet!

bcampbe7
03-25-2005, 01:15 PM
TheViper guys have all about admitted defeat already......check out their boards :steering:

It's been a little while but any magazine I have ever read that compares the Viper with most any other sports car has had the Viper rated at the top in 0-60, 0-100-0, lateral g's. The only thing I have not heard about where the Viper falls is in reliabilty and longevity.
I have never ridden in a Z06, but have driven a Viper RT10 and riden in a GTS. I thought both were amazing vehicles.
If I am ever up in the Cinci area I will look you up Mag and you can give me a ride in your '06 Z06. :D

Mag_Red
03-25-2005, 01:19 PM
If I am ever up in the Cinci area I will look you up Mag and you can give me a ride in your '06 Z06. :D Will be happy to give you a ride........just wait about 3 years OK???

86PowerSlot190MC
03-25-2005, 01:22 PM
Now Here's (http://www.supercars.net/cars/2004@$Mercedes-Benz@$SLR%20McLareng.html) a sweet Car!!!!!!!! :love: :love: :steering:

jsonova99
03-25-2005, 01:25 PM
not too shabby

86PowerSlot190MC
03-25-2005, 01:27 PM
Shabby???????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????

Mag_Red
03-25-2005, 01:34 PM
Now Here's (http://www.supercars.net/cars/2004@$Mercedes-Benz@$SLR%20McLareng.html) a sweet Car!!!!!!!! :love: :love: :steering:I believe Jay Leno has one :worthy:

bcampbe7
03-25-2005, 01:41 PM
Now Here's (http://www.supercars.net/cars/2004@$Mercedes-Benz@$SLR%20McLareng.html) a sweet Car!!!!!!!! :love: :love: :steering:

Yes but if money was no object I would buy this car.
The silver one

jsonova99
03-25-2005, 01:43 PM
Yes but if money was no object I would buy this car:
McLaren (http://www.mclarencars.com/content/sections/mainfr/gall.htm) :cool:


They stopped making the F-1 didn't they? That is a sweet car. I have a soft spot for the Ferrari F-40 as my all-time favorite super exotic sprots car that I will never own.

sfitzgerald351
03-25-2005, 01:45 PM
I'm a big American go-fast car kinda guy and always figured I'd buy a Mustang or Vette when it came time to add another vehicle to the garage. But after looking at Honda's S2000 I'm in love. You get very refined handling in addition to "get there fast" straight line speed. It out performs most cars, including many that are way more expensive and you can get a 2004 with 15,000 miles on it for like $25k these days.

Mag_Red
03-25-2005, 01:48 PM
I'm a big American go-fast car kinda guy and always figured I'd buy a Mustang or Vette when it came time to add another vehicle to the garage. But after looking at Honda's S2000 I'm in love. You get very refined handling in addition to "get there fast" straight line speed. It out performs most cars, including many that are way more expensive and you can get a 2004 with 15,000 miles on it for like $25k these days.trouble with the Honda is you need to rev the crap out of it...has no torque :wavey:

bcampbe7
03-25-2005, 01:48 PM
They stopped making the F-1 didn't they? That is a sweet car. I have a soft spot for the Ferrari F-40 as my all-time favorite super exotic sprots car that I will never own.

You may be correct. Looking at their website they do have the McLaren LM. It is the yellow one in the above image. It was/is the fastest prduction car in the World at just over 241MPH! Not that you could ever use that kind of speed, but....

jsonova99
03-25-2005, 01:50 PM
Everybody here is going to think this is nuts, but if I was going to get something, I'd get myself another Land Rover Defender 90. Not a sports car, not even close. I had one for a little while and regretfully let it go. In my opinion it's the single coolest purpose built vehicle ever made. I know somebody is going to say the Humvee is better, but Land Rover never sold out with the Defender, no frills. That's my favorite vehicle of all time.

bcampbe7
03-25-2005, 01:51 PM
I'm a big American go-fast car kinda guy and always figured I'd buy a Mustang or Vette when it came time to add another vehicle to the garage. But after looking at Honda's S2000 I'm in love. You get very refined handling in addition to "get there fast" straight line speed. It out performs most cars, including many that are way more expensive and you can get a 2004 with 15,000 miles on it for like $25k these days.

Theres a nice black one in the parking lot here at work. I like the Nissan 350Z also. Those are cars I may actually be able to own in the future! But still, as they say, there's no replacement for displacement.

86PowerSlot190MC
03-25-2005, 01:57 PM
You may be correct. Looking at their website they do have the McLaren LM. It is the yellow one in the above image. It was/is the fastest prduction car in the World at just over 241MPH! Not that you could ever use that kind of speed, but....

Can you say "Autobahn". There are silly idotes that drive at 200 mph plus every day on there way to work :noface:

bcampbe7
03-25-2005, 02:11 PM
Can you say "Autobahn". There are silly idotes that drive at 200 mph plus every day on there way to work :noface:

Yeah, that's crazy!
A friend of mine lived in Europe for a couple years. He was driving thru Germany in a little 4 banger. He had the thing to the floor and was getting passed like he was sitting still. Not much you can do except get off the road.

ski36short
03-25-2005, 02:50 PM
General Motors dropped the ball on the design of the body on the new GTO. The 400HP is great, but it looks like a grand am. They should have gone retro like Ford has :twocents:

I agree that the 'Stang is a sharp looking car. However I will also say that IMHO the company has zero design talent. Retro-refreshes and copy-cats (500=Passat, their concept cars this year were very Caddy-like) seem to be all they can come up with in the car department. Interiors have come a long way though. In the case of the Stang they've painted themselves into a corner and they know it. How do you freshen or redesign that car? I guess that's a good problem to have in some respects because that means you nailed it the first time. They have said that this design has to last 7-8 years though, nothing is planned in the meantime.

As for GM's response, the GTO certainly hasn't cut it. Nice interior, awesome power, but certainly not exciting. Hopefully the current crisis is short enough to bring back the capability and desire for some of the projects mentioned here...

Greg250
03-25-2005, 04:28 PM
The new Vette Z06 is going to be BAD A$$! 427 small block hand built putting out 500HP. Estimates are 0-60 under 4 sec and top speed over 190. It is going to be a Viper killer for about $15k less at around the $70k mark. The Shelby is going to be a great car too. For about half the money it should easily win Bang for the Buck awards. I am glad to see American Muscle finally being flexed again. As far as a retro Camaro, don't expect to see it any time soon. The UAW has the Camaro name plate frozen for several more years by making GM agree not to use it due to the loss of union jobs by dropping the Camaro line. I found this out through a friend at one of the local Chevy dealers, so I don't know how much truth there is in it. Hopefully just a rumor.

sfitzgerald351
03-26-2005, 05:36 PM
trouble with the Honda is you need to rev the crap out of it...has no torque :wavey:

Between the 351 in the truck and the 454 in the boat I've got enough torque in my life. I want a car that drives and performs well. If I have to drive it between 5000 and 8000 rpm so be it. This car is quick (14.1s quarter mile), but also handles much better than a big heavy american go fast straight automobile. Take the S2000 over a set of train tracks and then do the same in a Mustang. No comparision.

oxmach
03-26-2005, 07:58 PM
Hmmm, liked the new Mustangs, but couldn't part with the Shaker. This one would have me seriously thinking. Low 13's in the quarter although, I can tell you what side of a dime is facing up when I run one over :steering:

André
03-27-2005, 06:45 AM
Very nice car Greg!
Wich year make is it?

oxmach
03-27-2005, 07:11 AM
It's an 03 Mach 1. The reintroduced it in 03 and built again in 04. Completely changed the platform for 05.