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View Full Version : Mufflers vs. straight pipes


learjet2230
01-09-2008, 10:16 AM
What is everyone's opinion? Has anyone done it with good results? done it and switched back? Haven't done it and want too. I have some 3" hose coming to me tomorrow and hope to possibly get the mufflers removed this weekend. Just looking for thoughts and opinions.

DemolitionMan
01-09-2008, 10:25 AM
My dads 84 ss had straight pipes and it sounds great.

Cary K.
01-09-2008, 10:26 AM
I have a buddy with an older Bu that runs straight. It is just too dang loud. It makes for a very long day in the boat, and you have to scream to even talk to each other. I think I am more exhausted / ready to put it on the trailer, just from riding inside the boat than I am riding behind it. To each his own though I guess.

TRBenj
01-09-2008, 10:33 AM
Ive got straight pipes on my boat. Its loud, but its not too bad when youre in the boat. I have no problem holding a conversation at idle while the tips are below the water. If youre behind the boat or on shore with the pipes pointed at you though, look out!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/TRBenj/tips_07.jpg

shepherd
01-09-2008, 10:35 AM
Don't do it. My boat is loud. Though it sounds great, the thrill wears off after the first few minutes. You won't be able to hear the stereo, the noise can get irritating after a full day of skiing, and your lake neighbors probably won't appreciate it too much, especially if you like early morning ski runs.

If you like loud motors, buy yourself a Harley and put straight pipes on that.

Just my :twocents:

east tx skier
01-09-2008, 10:50 AM
Don't do it. My boat is loud. Though it sounds great, the thrill wears off after the first few minutes. You won't be able to hear the stereo, the noise can get irritating after a full day of skiing, and your lake neighbors probably won't appreciate it too much, especially if you like early morning ski runs.

If you like loud motors, buy yourself a Harley and put straight pipes on that.

Just my :twocents:

You don't have mufflers?

BrianM
01-09-2008, 10:52 AM
I drive and ski behind a friends Bu Sportster with straight pipes generally once a week. After an evening set in that boat my head hurts. It is way too loud.

learjet2230
01-09-2008, 11:29 AM
TRBenj,
where did you get those tips or are they stock?

Sodar
01-09-2008, 11:41 AM
Ive got straight pipes on my boat. Its loud, but its not too bad when youre in the boat. I have no problem holding a conversation at idle while the tips are below the water. If youre behind the boat or on shore with the pipes pointed at you though, look out!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/TRBenj/tips_07.jpg

Shouldn't a boat of this brand have ONE exhaust outlet!?!?

:D :D

Jim@BAWS
01-09-2008, 11:46 AM
I drive and ski behind a friends Bu Sportster with straight pipes generally once a week. After an evening set in that boat my head hurts. It is way too loud.


Interesting factoid...In the past, mufflers in a BU ARE NOT Standard. They are an Option.

TRBenj
01-09-2008, 11:49 AM
Shouldn't a boat of this brand have ONE exhaust outlet!?!?

:D :D
I happen to think that it should have 2.;)

Learjet, the tips are 4" and definitely not stock.

Sodar
01-09-2008, 12:06 PM
I happen to think that it should have 2.;)

Learjet, the tips are 4" and definitely not stock.

Looks much better! :D

Sodar
01-09-2008, 12:06 PM
I happen to think that it should have 2.;)

Learjet, the tips are 4" and definitely not stock.


On a serious note, how did you do it? Did you just add a hole or did you have to repair the one and then re-cut those two. I remember the single exhausts being offset from center line, but I do not remember by how much. :confused:

thijs
01-09-2008, 12:06 PM
Does taking the mufflers off negatively affect the back pressure on the engine?

Is there power gain or loss?
Will this cause early engine fatigue?

learjet2230
01-09-2008, 12:33 PM
Where did you get those tips? And do they come in 3"?

BrianM
01-09-2008, 12:55 PM
Interesting factoid...In the past, mufflers in a BU ARE NOT Standard. They are an Option.
Well not exactly. Mufflers are standard on some of their boats. The price point Sportster is NOT one of them though. Same way with the third tracking fin.

That is neither here nor there though since Bu following in the footsteps of 'the leader' dropped their price point boat last year. :rolleyes:

I need to start a new campaign. Bring back the price point slalom tug! Perfect Pass, MCX and a Powerslot. Besides that closed bow and no bling!

east tx skier
01-09-2008, 12:56 PM
Interesting factoid...In the past, mufflers in a BU ARE NOT Standard. They are an Option.

So was engine box insulation IIRC. They must have liked them loud.

east tx skier
01-09-2008, 12:58 PM
On a serious note, how did you do it? Did you just add a hole or did you have to repair the one and then re-cut those two. I remember the single exhausts being offset from center line, but I do not remember by how much. :confused:

I'm fairly sure the search function on another site will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about Tim's project. I'll see if I can find it.

east tx skier
01-09-2008, 12:59 PM
I need to start a new campaign. Bring back the price point slalom tug! Perfect Pass, MCX and a Powerslot. Besides that closed bow and no bling!

I find your views interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Sodar
01-09-2008, 01:00 PM
What? $60k is not a price point boat for you guys?!?!?

Man Up! :D

east tx skier
01-09-2008, 01:03 PM
...$60k....:D

I just threw up in my mouth. :o

thijs
01-09-2008, 01:06 PM
:cool: Louder is better

Ole Miss Rebels
01-09-2008, 01:40 PM
my dealer said that it will be loud. i understand that it does not have a muffler but some type of metal baffle system in the pipe. Can anyone tell me what to expect on my new boat once it gets here? thanks in advance.

BrianM
01-09-2008, 01:50 PM
I find your views interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
How about this for a few more 'options'?
-Gauges plain with no reflective chrome bling bling trim
-Ditch that new fangled digital, multi, compu, bling bling madness
-Black powdercoated windshield frame and grab rails
-Single color vinyl would be fine, all white or all light grey, (one single sripe color if you must)
-Billet/Chrome trim delete
-Teak platform
-Single gel stripe or just one solid color would be fine

I guess I am saying "think Sportstar" on the new hull. Call it the Prostar Core as in hardcore slalom.

stuartmcnair
01-09-2008, 01:55 PM
sounds like my 18 year old 190...maybe that's why I love it

stuartmcnair
01-09-2008, 01:57 PM
Where did you get those tips? And do they come in 3"?

Here they are. Getting some in March for my birthday!

http://www.rexmar.com/page230.html

Sodar
01-09-2008, 02:24 PM
Here they are. Getting some in March for my birthday!

http://www.rexmar.com/page230.html

Great company! Look through there Catalog... they have alot of cool stuff!

shepherd
01-09-2008, 03:50 PM
How about this for a few more 'options'?
-Gauges plain with no reflective chrome bling bling trim
-Ditch that new fangled digital, multi, compu, bling bling madness
-Black powdercoated windshield frame and grab rails
-Single color vinyl would be fine, all white or all light grey, (one single sripe color if you must)
-Billet/Chrome trim delete
-Teak platform
-Single gel stripe or just one solid color would be fine

I guess I am saying "think Sportstar" on the new hull. Call it the Prostar Core as in hardcore slalom.

"Prostar Core?" ........................... Sign me up. :)

(will that come with mufflers?)

east tx skier
01-09-2008, 04:02 PM
Bring back the price point slalom tug! Perfect Pass, MCX and a Powerslot. Besides that closed bow and no bling!
...

How about this for a few more 'options'?
-Gauges plain with no reflective chrome bling bling trim
-Ditch that new fangled digital, multi, compu, bling bling madness
-Black powdercoated windshield frame and grab rails
-Single color vinyl would be fine, all white or all light grey, (one single sripe color if you must)
-Billet/Chrome trim delete
-Teak platform
-Single gel stripe or just one solid color would be fine

I guess I am saying "think Sportstar" on the new hull. Call it the Prostar Core as in hardcore slalom.

Okay, closed bow, fuel injected small block, gear reduction, plain gauges, no HAL, black powdercoated windshield and grab rails, single colored vinyl maybe with accent piping, no billet/chrome trim, teak, white with single center gel stripe.

But for the powdercoating, you pretty much described what I've got in the garage.

But seriously, that's a very good way to get traditionally used boat buyers to consider buying a new boat. I'd love to see it, especially when I read posts on the Water Ski Forum with people who say that their MC dealer told them that the 190 had been discontinued.

TMCNo1
01-09-2008, 04:02 PM
sounds like my 18 year old 190...maybe that's why I love it

I was thinking the exact same thing. I have a price point boat and didn't even know it!:D Wooooooooo Hoooooooooo!

learjet2230
01-09-2008, 04:06 PM
Our 81' S&S was like that. My 88' is getting to be like that. Well I will update the progress on the pipe install. Dont know if I am going to put stainless tips on. Those are $200+ for a set, they sure look good though. Does anyone know if sound files can be uploaded on here or video's? Will photobucket host them?

east tx skier
01-09-2008, 05:01 PM
Photobucket will host video.

TRBenj
01-09-2008, 05:24 PM
I'm fairly sure the search function on another site will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about Tim's project. I'll see if I can find it.
Doug's right, Ive posted info and pics elsewhere. Sodar, I havent shared the exact details, though I have been asked for them. Lets just say it was a little more involved than cutting a second hole.

Straight pipes are not for everybody. I can get away with it on my lake, but Im sure I would be ticketed for violating noise ordinances in some places. I love the sound, but I am considering adding mufflers since this boat is really used as a watersports tractor. The next project will be lighter/faster ski boat that will be a little more extreme. That will likely get straight pipes and keep them.

I think 87MCProstar is the only TMC regular who's been on my boat- but he can vouch for the sound.

Sodar
01-09-2008, 05:41 PM
Doug's right, Ive posted info and pics elsewhere. Sodar, I havent shared the exact details, though I have been asked for them. Lets just say it was a little more involved than cutting a second hole.

Straight pipes are not for everybody. I can get away with it on my lake, but Im sure I would be ticketed for violating noise ordinances in some places. I love the sound, but I am considering adding mufflers since this boat is really used as a watersports tractor. The next project will be lighter/faster ski boat that will be a little more extreme. That will likely get straight pipes and keep them.

I think 87MCProstar is the only TMC regular who's been on my boat- but he can vouch for the sound.

Doug has pointed me towards the other side! The install looks great! :)

viabill
01-09-2008, 05:44 PM
If you remove the mufflers/baffles and go with straight pipes, isn't there a risk of water washing up through the pipes and killing the exhaust valves when you chop the throttle?

I always heard that it's risky, especially if you don't have the flaps.
TRBenj- Do the tips you are using have an internal flap? They look great!!

learjet2230
01-09-2008, 06:40 PM
Water would have to travel up the manifold riser then down into the manifold, and where is the air going to go? Highly unlikely, but I guess possible. I have heard the flappers are there to do two things...when the boat idles for a few minutes, the muffles tend to fill up with a lot of water. If you put it in nuetral and "goose" it, water shoots up into the air. I have no flaps right now and my daughter loves to sit on the back seat and have me do that. Second thing they do is seal up when the engine "diesels" or runs backwards. This prevents sucking up water into the cylinders. Just what I have heard and seen.

88 PS190
01-09-2008, 06:45 PM
If you remove the mufflers/baffles and go with straight pipes, isn't there a risk of water washing up through the pipes and killing the exhaust valves when you chop the throttle?

I always heard that it's risky, especially if you don't have the flaps.
TRBenj- Do the tips you are using have an internal flap? They look great!!

well there isn't that much to a muffler, water can flow right through, its the flaps that really stop the water from making its way up into your heats. and into the cylinders (waterlock bent connecting rods,piston dmg...)

And no matter what forum it is, if it has an engine this will be a hot topic.

Mufflers vs. pipes... on snowmobiles people want stingers and straight pipes instead of silencers and such. same with motorcycles, atv's, cars, heck YOU DO NOT GAIN PERFORMANCE unless you have a super restrictive exaust, these boat mufflers are just pipes with some sound dampening in the edges, they flow just fine (as evidenced by the surplus of water that flows through them while you are skiing)

These are not econobox japanese cars with a 3/4" exhaust pipe that you couldn't blow through. So all that is gained by this is more noise. Sure if one of your mufflers is leaking and you cannot afford to replace it a cheap fix is to run some flexible hose for the time being, but please replace it.

Noisy boats get noise hour restrictions on lakes, if yours has one already, I suppose make the most of your boat with super noisy pipes. But if you value your morning time and evening time on the water do everything you can to not piss off local homeowners.

Same with snowmobiles, atv's, cars etc. you're not making more HP you aren't on a race track, and by having a respectable noise level you will not be given restrictions.

TMCNo1
01-09-2008, 06:46 PM
If you remove the mufflers/baffles and go with straight pipes, isn't there a risk of water washing up through the pipes and killing the exhaust valves when you chop the throttle?

I always heard that it's risky, especially if you don't have the flaps.
TRBenj- Do the tips you are using have an internal flap? They look great!!

Can be purchased with or without flappers, link that someone has already posted, http://www.rexmar.com/page230.html

learjet2230
01-09-2008, 07:15 PM
88,
While I respect your opinion, how have you determined that this doesn't add horsepower, to either boats, cars, trucks, atv's, or snowmobiles? I have been around boats, cars, trucks, motorcycles (2 and 4), and snowmobiles (2 and 4) just about all my life. People do it for a reason, whatever that reason may be. Look at drag racers for instance, they squeeze every ounce of power from their motors, it must make a difference! Top Fuel motors make between 7K and 8K horsepower from a V8!

Another thing, not nessicarily directed at you...

I know I asked for all opinions, by why is it that it seems some people are already complaining about the noise level. I haven't even done it yet.
Noisy boats get noise hour restrictions on lakes, if yours has one already, I suppose make the most of your boat with super noisy pipes. But if you value your morning time and evening time on the water do everything you can to not piss off local homeowners.

While this may be true, I haven't EVER heard of or seen a quiet Harley. I live in a small town that is frequented by many visitors each weekend. I see groups of Harley's tearing down the road at 7am so they can get to the square for their morning coffee, but I never hear anyone biitch about it. Harley riders today are not what they used to be 20 years ago. They are considered older, and more mature. Maybe I have a chip on my shoulder from when I was a kid, and people would yell at me for riding a dirt bike. I was being a kid!! I could have been out doing drugs, getting drunk, etc.... Now if an equal amount of youger generation kids drove in on Ninja's, Duc's, or R1's and they were equiped with aftermarket exhaust, they would be percieved as violent, immature, trouble makers on load bikes, when a stock Harley is ten times louder. What I'm getting at is, if it pisses off the locale, then they can pee up a rope! I'm not hurting anyone. And as a matter of fact it might be saving a life. Ever heard the term "loud pipes save lives"!! Ever accidentally changed lanes and not seen the car in your blind spot? I bet you have never done that with a Harley next to you? Ever heard a very "quiet" boat on the lake? Ever been driving and not know a boat is next to you or beside you and almost hit them? I want to do this for more reasons then to make the boat loud. I dont believe in catalytic convertors, and EGR valves. I was born in 74' and missed out on the muscle car generation. Those days are gone and anything I can do to put myself in that era, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm gonna do it.

TMCNo1
01-09-2008, 07:24 PM
88,
While I respect your opinion, how have you determined that this doesn't add horsepower, to either boats, cars, trucks, atv's, or snowmobiles? I have been around boats, cars, trucks, motorcycles (2 and 4), and snowmobiles (2 and 4) just about all my life. People do it for a reason, whatever that reason may be. Look at drag racers for instance, they squeeze every ounce of power from their motors, it must make a difference! Top Fuel motors make between 7K and 8K horsepower from a V8!

Another thing, not nessicarily directed at you...

I know I asked for all opinions, by why is it that it seems some people are already complaining about the noise level. I haven't even done it yet.
While this may be true, I haven't EVER heard of or seen a quiet Harley. I live in a small town that is frequented by many visitors each weekend. I see groups of Harley's tearing down the road at 7am so they can get to the square for their morning coffee, but I never hear anyone biitch about it. Harley riders today are not what they used to be 20 years ago. They are considered older, and more mature. Maybe I have a chip on my shoulder from when I was a kid, and people would yell at me for riding a dirt bike. I was being a kid!! I could have been out doing drugs, getting drunk, etc.... Now if an equal amount of youger generation kids drove in on Ninja's, Duc's, or R1's and they were equiped with aftermarket exhaust, they would be percieved as violent, immature, trouble makers on load bikes, when a stock Harley is ten times louder. What I'm getting at is, if it pisses off the locale, then they can pee up a rope! I'm not hurting anyone. And as a matter of fact it might be saving a life. Ever heard the term "loud pipes save lives"!! Ever accidentally changed lanes and not seen the car in your blind spot? I bet you have never done that with a Harley next to you? Ever heard a very "quiet" boat on the lake? Ever been driving and not know a boat is next to you or beside you and almost hit them? I want to do this for more reasons then to make the boat loud. I dont believe in catalytic convertors, and EGR valves. I was born in 74' and missed out on the muscle car generation. Those days are gone and anything I can do to put myself in that era, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm gonna do it.


I think you make a valid point!

88 PS190
01-09-2008, 07:51 PM
Its not directed at harley's so much as the sport bike crowd, so many riders purchase a new pipe but do not remap the engine management to make up for what little power increase that could be utilized. Part of the harley phenomenon is the open pipe noise, but then again a harley rider tends to get on and go not buzz a section of lake shore back and forth for an hour. Nor does he blast back and forth down a section of trail, the harley rider gets out on the highway and goes. Now what about the sportbike squids. I'm sure you've seen them, aftermarket exhausts on bikes they still owe money on. Riding without helmets in flipflops and khaki shorts. Surely you can understand that they have no need for that pipe, and since they just rev their engines as they cruise around town waiting for the police to write a noise violation (yes you get them in many areas).

Loud pipes can save lives... so can not speeding past people on the highway, and being mindful to not cruise in someone's blind spot. My bike doesn't make a ton of noise, but then again I pay attention so I don't get smeared. Could I make more power by changing out my exhausts? Probably not, I have larger carbs, cylinders and pistons for an extra 200 CC, the airfilter that is supposed to provide the best intake flow, and exhausts from the 1000cc model. Which match my bores. Dyno's of other people's bikes with the factory exhausts vs. stingers show that you do not gain hp by opening its exhaust, because factory most bikes do not have a ton of restriction.

I was born in 1985 and certainly missed the muscle car generation. But that does not change neighbors making complaints to the DNR and homeowners committees to make it so you cannot ski till 10 am and have to stop by 9.

And what power are you going to gain on a mastercraft engine by straight piping? Those things are practically open pipes already with just a bit of muffling. By all means, if you don't believe in it go for it, but when people are shooting you dirty looks and muttering to their neighbors you can be sure its going to cause regulations.

On atv's, motorcycles, dirtbikes etc. You can find power gains in some cases. There are plenty of race legal pipes out there that will update a trail model to something more like the race model pipes, but unless you are changing the exhaust to complement other modifications the factory pipes are most often going to be more efficient than the aftermarket item. This has been documented with nearly every motocross bike, as the manufacturers spend alot of time getting power from their engines while meeting race decibel restrictions.

What about ricers? Who swap off their factory exhaust for a much larger open muffler. Does that increase power? Well in some cases an open exhaust can increase top end hp, but it also can narrow the powerband.

With snowmobiles, if you have a good expansion pipe, and a silencer and you've jetted the carbs and clutched it appropriately, you will not make noticable gains going to a stinger or open pipe but you will get plenty of people to petition that they do not want that trail running through their backyard.

Now you mentioned top fuel drag cars. 7-8K hp with no cats, mufflers, or any of this nonsense... But then again running nitromethane, rebuilt after every run, with superchargers on them that a 1 ton pickup's engine could not run. Not even bothering with cooling systems because they don't run long enough. And that frequently blow apart. Yes huge hp, but you may notice they operate with headers that aren't really that large, and yet they move enough air for 7K hp. You'd think in a boat making less than 300 HP that two 4" pipes would flow enough air to make the HP required?

I don't dislike loud pipes exactly, I just feel like it must be 99% of people that put some huge open loud exhaust pipe on their engines don't understand horsepower, nor do they need it. And the rest drag race on tracks.

Certainly bugs me when some speedboat runs down the lake going 55 with open pipes when if they had underwater they would still be going 55, and it would be alot quieter.

88 PS190
01-09-2008, 07:54 PM
What I'm getting at is, if it pisses off the locale, then they can pee up a rope!

What I am getting at is a little goodwill towards the local population goes a long way towards acceptance and the future of all motorsports.

learjet2230
01-09-2008, 07:58 PM
First of all they way you talked, I thought you were like 55+, no offense to anyone of that age. Second of all, I'm going to sit down with my family and eat dinner. I will reply to this but would like to take the time to really put my heart and soul into it. anyone else wanna chime in?

BrianM
01-09-2008, 08:07 PM
And what power are you going to gain on a mastercraft engine by straight piping? Those things are practically open pipes already with just a bit of muffling. By all means, if you don't believe in it go for it, but when people are shooting you dirty looks and muttering to their neighbors you can be sure its going to cause regulations.

...

I don't dislike loud pipes exactly, I just feel like it must be 99% of people that put some huge open loud exhaust pipe on their engines don't understand horsepower, nor do they need it. And the rest drag race on tracks.

Certainly bugs me when some speedboat runs down the lake going 55 with open pipes when if they had underwater they would still be going 55, and it would be alot quieter.
...

What I am getting at is a little goodwill towards the local population goes a long way towards acceptance and the future of all motorsports.
I think that about sums it up for me too

Chicago190
01-09-2008, 08:15 PM
88,
While I respect your opinion, how have you determined that this doesn't add horsepower, to either boats, cars, trucks, atv's, or snowmobiles? I have been around boats, cars, trucks, motorcycles (2 and 4), and snowmobiles (2 and 4) just about all my life. People do it for a reason, whatever that reason may be. Look at drag racers for instance, they squeeze every ounce of power from their motors, it must make a difference! Top Fuel motors make between 7K and 8K horsepower from a V8!


You will gain horsepower from the freer flow of exhaust, but the question is how much? In my experience mufflers do not account for most of the restriction in exhaust systems. Excessive bends, non-mandrel bent exhaust systems, and especially catalytic converters rob more power than modern mufflers. Your example of top fuel or other very high performance motors, while it makes your point, is not a good example because you are talking about people who are trying to squeeze every last HP out of a motor. Also, as HP increases into the 500+ range mufflers can become restrictive especially as the rest of the exhaust system is more efficient (fewer bends, freer flowing headers, no cats, etc.)

I definately don't doubt that removing the mufflers will gain some HP, but will the gain be worth the extra noise? If you and your neighbors don't mind the noise then by all means removing them will increase performance. Although remember the decrease in backpressure without a subsequent air to fuel mixture adjustment may lead to a decrease in low RPM torque which might negate the HP increase at higher RPMs.

learjet2230
01-09-2008, 09:28 PM
Ok folks here we go. By the way my lovely wife makes a mean meatloaf and can cut it up pretty darn well behind the MC. Anyway, I guess I knew this thread was gonna go into the debate mode. Which I dont mind if everyone else doesn't mind. I just want to get clear that this is not meant to be a personal attack on anyone, but more on some statements made. First of all lets look at what 88 said. I looked at your public profile and it appears you are a student of 22 years of age.Now what about the sportbike squids. I'm sure you've seen them, aftermarket exhausts on bikes they still owe money on. Riding without helmets in flipflops and khaki shorts. Surely you can understand that they have no need for that pipe, and since they just rev their engines as they cruise around town waiting for the police to write a noise violation (yes you get them in many areas).
I'm a little dissapointed that you have classified people that drive sport bikes as "squids" and people that "still owe money". Your "average" sportbike runs about $10,000. Your average Harley is about $25,000 (best guess). Now statistically, what group do you think owes more money? Coming from a 22 year old student is pretty brash. When I was in college I didn't have a pot to piss in, let alone the 88' Prostar 190 you have. I didn't get "daddy's money"! Not saying you do, but I know a lot of people that did and still do! Everything I own, I worked for! My house, boat, airplane, right down to the 15K in tools in my shop when I was twisting wrenches on the floor for a leading aerospace manufacturer. But you see I love sport bikes. I used to own an 99' R6. I put 900 miles on it, my daughter was born and I got rid of it. Therefore, by reason of deduction I am classified as a squid that owes $ by you!! You see that is what is wrong with society these days, we classify people according to social acceptances. You are wrong for that, and I suspect if you keep that mentality through life, it will hurt you and others.

Loud pipes can save lives... so can not speeding past people on the highway Who ever talked about speeding! Have you ever broken the speed limit? Have you ever layed a wake in a no wake zone? Have you ever broken ANY laws? Did you just start drinking at age 21 (if you drink, I suspect the way you have talked, you dont!!)

My bike doesn't make a ton of noise, but then again I pay attention so I don't get smeared. What exactly is "a ton of noise"? But it still makes noise, but since you "pay attention" it must be ok! I also notice you dont mention what kind of bike it is. I assume it is a Harley since you sided with that crowd. I also assume it is payed for because you are in the Harley crowd, and not the "squid" crowd.

Could I make more power by changing out my exhausts? , I have larger carbs, cylinders and pistons for an extra 200 CC, the airfilter that is supposed to provide the best intake flow, and exhausts from the 1000cc model. Which match my bores. Ok, not sure I understand your thinking here. You ask yourself if changing exhausts would give you more power. Probably not was your reply, but then you state later that you have 1000cc exhaust. So you did change them! And you changed them why? Wasn't the stock exhaust good enough? Why did you change all the carbs, cyl, pistons, air filter, etc.... Why not just buy the 1000cc model and get it over with? Again I assume the bike, and all the aftermarket stuff is payed for, unless you are a "squid", we still haven't determined that. I wish I had a motorcycle while I was a student. I had to borrow a honda elite scooter. Took 80 cents to fill the tank!

I was born in 1985 and certainly missed the muscle car generation. But that does not change neighbors making complaints to the DNR and homeowners committees to make it so you cannot ski till 10 am and have to stop by 9.
Sounds like you live on a small lake community. I live on the Brazos River! We dont have homeowners commitees! It is a lake of 8000 plus acres. No way to enforce noise restrictions IMHO!

On atv's, motorcycles, dirtbikes etc. You can find power gains in some cases. There are plenty of race legal pipes out there that will update a trail model to something more like the race model pipes, but unless you are changing the exhaust to complement other modifications the factory pipes are most often going to be more efficient than the aftermarket item. This has been documented with nearly every motocross bike, as the manufacturers spend alot of time getting power from their engines while meeting race decibel restrictions.
You need to attend school a little more. I have never heard of a decibel restriction for a race! Also you obviously need to learn a little more about 2 strokes and exhaust. We dont really change the pipe for more HP, but to rather change the torque curve with respect to peak HP. This is done by a combination of expansion chamber size, length, and length of the stinger. I used to be able to change the torque curve on my RC boat by moving the pipe close or farther away from the engine. I then could vary my prop selection for water conditions.

What about ricers? Who swap off their factory exhaust for a much larger open muffler. Does that increase power? Well in some cases an open exhaust can increase top end hp, but it also can narrow the powerband.

Another derogatory comment to the "squid" community. We dont really term a 4 stroke moter as having a "powerband" That is two stroke terminology. Ricers, or commonly reffered to "squids" in the north, term it "torque curve".

With snowmobiles, if you have a good expansion pipe, and a silencer and you've jetted the carbs and clutched it appropriately, you will not make noticable gains going to a stinger or open pipe but you will get plenty of people to petition that they do not want that trail running through their backyard.
Gosh, for being 22, you sure have a lot of toys. Just so happens my parents live in Colorado. We have had several snowmobiles....2 strokes, but now all 4 strokes! We ride out at 8600 feet. You have to be really lean or your sled wont perform on the trails. Now we have all EFI and dont worry about it!

Now you mentioned top fuel drag cars. 7-8K hp with no cats, mufflers, or any of this nonsense... But then again running nitromethane, rebuilt after every run, with superchargers on them that a 1 ton pickup's engine could not run. Not even bothering with cooling systems because they don't run long enough. And that frequently blow apart. Yes huge hp, but you may notice they operate with headers that aren't really that large, and yet they move enough air for 7K hp. You'd think in a boat making less than 300 HP that two 4" pipes would flow enough air to make the HP required?
Ok bad example here. But if my boat were tuned to current ambient temps, etc dont you think adding straight pipes would increase the volumetric efficiency of the engine, therefore causing a lean condition? This would cause me to have to enrichen it to return it to properly tuned condition. More fuel = more power. If I really wanted to get crazy I would link the exhaust with an "H" setup to balance the exhaust pressures. This would further increase the HP. yes, maybe it isn't that much, but I essentially haven't done anything and I am gaining power! HP=$. This is essentially free HP.

I don't dislike loud pipes exactly, I just feel like it must be 99% of people that put some huge open loud exhaust pipe on their engines don't understand horsepower, nor do they need it. And the rest drag race on tracks.
Well what does that mean,..."exactly". You are either pregnant or your not. There is nothing like the open exhaust note of a V8. Why do Scarabs or Donzi's have Captains Choice. Well I think it is to gain HP. You may think it is to wake up the whales and Flipper. Do you even know who Flipper is/was?

Certainly bugs me when some speedboat runs down the lake going 55 with open pipes when if they had underwater they would still be going 55, and it would be alot quieter.
Their exhaust was their choice and not yours. There is not a boat out there that fancy's everyone. If he/she wants the exhaust like that, LET IT GO and quit worrying about how you feel. You and I have the same model boat, or at least I have the same model boat that is in your family, it is pretty loud as far as boats go. If you dont like loud exhaust, why not quiet it down a bit. You could be aggrevating your home owners commitee.

Chicago
I definately don't doubt that removing the mufflers will gain some HP, but will the gain be worth the extra noise? If you and your neighbors don't mind the noise then by all means removing them will increase performance. Although remember the decrease in backpressure without a subsequent air to fuel mixture adjustment may lead to a decrease in low RPM torque which might negate the HP increase at higher RPMs I plan on looking at a re-jet on the 4160.

Let me have it, I'm sure its coming!!

Chicago190
01-09-2008, 09:44 PM
You need to attend school a little more. I have never heard of a decibel restriction for a race!

Actually, I know for a fact that Laguna Seca has or at least had within the last 5 years a decibel restriction for regular track days.

Rejets are a possibility for carbed motors, but it is harder for us EFI guys to reprogram our ECUs to adjust A/F ratio.

H20skeefreek
01-09-2008, 09:56 PM
I think some people need to take some chill pills.

learjet2230
01-09-2008, 10:01 PM
Now c'mon Chicago. I used to live in Naperville and attended SIUC by the way. Anyway, you are talking non-race day track days. Is this general public admittance? I have a carbed motor. Now for the remark on the EFI. I will admit I dont know the complete setup on the MC' injection. But, what is the point of EFI if it doesn't "self adjust". I think when you remap arent you resetting target values that it wants the motor to attain. EFI should self adjust. You remap and get more power because you change the target values. This results in changed timing curves, fuel curves, hgher emissions, etc. The factory sets them up for a combination of max hp with best fuel efficiency and lowest emissions. You should not have to remap for a straight pipe install. If you changed a cam, heads, or intake then by all means, remap it to extract the most out of the component. EFI automatically adjusts A/F ratio, if it didn't, what would be the point.

learjet2230
01-09-2008, 10:04 PM
I think some people need to take some chill pills.
Yea, I'm drinking one right now!!

88 PS190
01-09-2008, 10:26 PM
I never said I classified all sportbike riders as squids. I classify those who ride in shorts and flip flops and with out helmets as squids (as do most people who are around motorcycles because that is what these people look like when they crash). I ride with two sportbike riders one is my roommate, one is in the same building, we commonly refer to people who ride with out helmets as squids, not because of the bike but because of the lack of gear.

My bike is a 1980 bmw R80, that I changed the pipes out because 1. the old ones were rusted when I got it, and the new ones I managed to get with the cylinders from the R100.

I prefer to do my own work on vehicles when I can, sometimes the task requires tools that I do not personally own or is beyond what I can do in the parking lot at my apartment.

I was not making a personal attack on you for the variety of motorcycle you prefer to ride, nor was I commenting that its impossible to gain horsepower by opening up a pipe.

I merely wish to express that in many areas increasing restriction is the norm. Sections of trail are becoming unavailable, lakes are being given no-wake hours etc.

Since I am only a college student I do not have access to property in Colorado to ride where there is more space and fewer people to complain. Nor do I have a private ski lake that I can run on, so I am at the mercy of those people who do own the land around the public areas I utilize. If these areas start to close down I will not be able to use my toys. Which yes, I am lucky to have, but I am also driving a car purchased under 500$ and a bike bought for the same cost.

I am not some strange prude 22 year old, who dislikes loud noise and fast toys. I merely want to preserve access to these resourses for those of us who rely on the fact that we are currently allowed to enjoy these items.
that is what "exactly" means.

Many races do have noise restrictions, particularly tracks located near cities or communities, some tracks have enforced hours during which they are allowed to exceed those decibel limits very similar to how concert venues are required to shut down at certain times of night. This isn't normally mandated by the organizing body.

Noise is afterall a form of pollution, it spreads out and impacts others just the same as if they placed large spot lights aimed at other people's property. How this comes down to straight pipe vs. mufflers, well I ski in front of other people's property. Often a short section of shoreline where the water is calm. I will often go skiing early in the morning before people take their children tubing, or get out to cruise around. Out of respect to these property owners I want to minimize my impact on their lives.

If you were insulted by my comments I am sorry the internet often shifts meanings in that way.

Chicago190
01-09-2008, 10:52 PM
Now c'mon Chicago. I used to live in Naperville and attended SIUC by the way. Anyway, you are talking non-race day track days. Is this general public admittance? I have a carbed motor. Now for the remark on the EFI. I will admit I dont know the complete setup on the MC' injection. But, what is the point of EFI if it doesn't "self adjust". I think when you remap arent you resetting target values that it wants the motor to attain. EFI should self adjust. You remap and get more power because you change the target values. This results in changed timing curves, fuel curves, hgher emissions, etc. The factory sets them up for a combination of max hp with best fuel efficiency and lowest emissions. You should not have to remap for a straight pipe install. If you changed a cam, heads, or intake then by all means, remap it to extract the most out of the component. EFI automatically adjusts A/F ratio, if it didn't, what would be the point.

The point is that there are tracks that enforce noise restrictions. Not necessarily all the time or for all tracks, but they exist.

My understanding of the MC/Indmar EFI system (at least in my boat), is that it operates basically like a car in Open Loop mode. Fuel and Timing are determined from a table that has values like throttle % (load), RPM, engine temp., and if it detects knock. I don't know if there is an intake air temp sensor, but I'm pretty sure there is not. There is no mass airflow meter or other measurement of airflow into the engine and no O2 sensor to measure A/F ratio. Therefore, changes made that effect airflow, like removing mufflers, should be followed by an ECU reprogramming. However, I'm guessing that you can remove the mufflers on an EFI boat and have no problems because it does not substantially increase the amount of air entering the engine. Also, Indmar obviously didn't program the engine so that minor differences in airflow would cause an A/F ratio problem.

I'm not sure that what I said is correct so some of the engine gurus will have to chime in to correct me.

88 PS190
01-09-2008, 11:09 PM
I recall conversations about adding EFI to older boats in which discussions as to if the O2 sensor was required or if one could get by with out it, I will search to see if I can find that thread.

Oh and I grew up very near Naperville,

Currently sitting in La Grange.

shepherd
01-09-2008, 11:46 PM
You don't have mufflers?

Nope. Or if I do, they are very small and don't work worth a damn. ;)

03 35th Anniversary
01-10-2008, 12:08 AM
Nope. Or if I do, they are very small and don't work worth a damn. ;)No there are no mufflers on our boats. Mine is at TXMC and the have the floor out of it (installing a Barefoot Plate). All I seen was straight pipe.

Mines no louder in the drivers seat than my friends with the 6.0 and a muffler. (This was before the S/C) Back seat you hear the rumble pretty well and it drowns out radio.

shepherd
01-10-2008, 12:22 AM
I'm not complaining about my boat's noise. I just try to be considerate of the people who live on the lake (I don't but a couple of my friends do). I don't want to piss people off and have slalom buoys start disappearing. That said, I would never intentionally spend the money to make my boat louder just for the sake of making it louder (and maybe a 1 or 2 percent increase in power).

88 PS190
01-10-2008, 12:36 AM
well the mufflers they come with just look like a pipe.

http://www.engines1.com/images/muffler/Primex%20Ski%20Boat%20Silencer%20Small.jpg

its basically just a tube with a bit of packing. But its very open so the water from the manifolds flow through rapidly. but they do reduce volume.

03 35th Anniversary
01-10-2008, 12:38 AM
I'm not complaining about my boat's noise. I just try to be considerate of the people who live on the lake (I don't but a couple of my friends do). I don't want to piss people off and have slalom buoys start disappearing. That said, I would never intentionally spend the money to make my boat louder just for the sake of making it louder (and maybe a 1 or 2 percent increase in power).Ok I see what your saying.

I get lots of complements from others as well as MC owners on the rumble of my boat. But I don't have the issue of the ski course you have.

03 35th Anniversary
01-10-2008, 12:40 AM
well the mufflers they come from just look like a pipe.

http://www.engines1.com/images/muffler/Primex%20Ski%20Boat%20Silencer%20Small.jpg

its basically just a tube with a bit of packing. But its very open so the water from the manifolds flow through rapidly. but they do reduce volume.Nope not even those, just good ole rubber hose......

88 PS190
01-10-2008, 12:40 AM
Not to mention if you use a portable slalom course in front of your neighbor's house and their approval is necessary for the permit.

Chicago190
01-10-2008, 12:50 AM
I recall conversations about adding EFI to older boats in which discussions as to if the O2 sensor was required or if one could get by with out it, I will search to see if I can find that thread.

Oh and I grew up very near Naperville,

Currently sitting in La Grange.

I just did a quick search and saw that previous engines did not have O2 sensors because there was none that could tolerate the moisture in marine exhausts. Supposedly, this old thread said that the new engines with catalytic converters would have O2 sensors because the ETX/CAT system solved the problem.

TRBenj
01-10-2008, 11:46 AM
And what power are you going to gain on a mastercraft engine by straight piping? Those things are practically open pipes already with just a bit of muffling.
Sounds like you dont know the answer to that question. Tough to say without cutting open a muffler to see how restrictive it is. Mine was a different style, but I can tell you that it was not conducive to flow. My engine is far from stock and everything has been tuned to take full advantage of the upgrades- so Id probably be less inclined to add them to a stock motor.

Otherwise, you make valid points. Everyone has a different situation- so like I said, straight pipes arent for everyone.

learjet2230
01-11-2008, 06:58 PM
Well it is complete. The boat is not too much louder than it already was. I think you all will be quite suprised at what is inside those mufflers. There is quite a restriction. I will try to post some pics tonight or tomorrow. Right ow I'm going for a boat ride with the fam.

Jayc
01-12-2008, 04:30 AM
Fit some of these, they will certainly rob some HP and make your engine quieter :)
http://www.tmcowners.com/photopost/data/500/boat_engine_12_.jpg

03 35th Anniversary
01-12-2008, 01:22 PM
Fit some of these, they will certainly rob some HP and make your engine quieter :)
http://www.tmcowners.com/photopost/data/500/boat_engine_12_.jpgWhy would you want to rob hp??????:confused:

learjet2230
01-12-2008, 02:51 PM
Did you do that? Are those car mufflers? Those aren't going to last too long with water going through them. During my ride last night I noticed I picked up almost 100 rpm.

ShamrockIV
01-12-2008, 03:24 PM
"What in the wide wide world of sports is going on here?"

Car mufflers on a MC?
helluva engineering job but man those will rust like a champ!!!!

H20skeefreek
01-12-2008, 04:47 PM
Why would you want to rob hp??????:confused:
I think he was using what they call "sarcasm".

Jayc
01-12-2008, 05:34 PM
Well spotted on the sarcasm front!

They are no longer on there. Previous owner fitted them and they lasted about 3 months before they rusted out.

learjet2230
01-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Too funny! I thought YOU had them on there currently!!

JDK
01-13-2008, 01:41 AM
88,
While I respect your opinion, how have you determined that this doesn't add horsepower, to either boats, cars, trucks, atv's, or snowmobiles? I have been around boats, cars, trucks, motorcycles (2 and 4), and snowmobiles (2 and 4) just about all my life. People do it for a reason, whatever that reason may be. Look at drag racers for instance, they squeeze every ounce of power from their motors, it must make a difference! Top Fuel motors make between 7K and 8K horsepower from a V8!

Another thing, not nessicarily directed at you...

I know I asked for all opinions, by why is it that it seems some people are already complaining about the noise level. I haven't even done it yet.
While this may be true, I haven't EVER heard of or seen a quiet Harley. I live in a small town that is frequented by many visitors each weekend. I see groups of Harley's tearing down the road at 7am so they can get to the square for their morning coffee, but I never hear anyone biitch about it. Harley riders today are not what they used to be 20 years ago. They are considered older, and more mature. Maybe I have a chip on my shoulder from when I was a kid, and people would yell at me for riding a dirt bike. I was being a kid!! I could have been out doing drugs, getting drunk, etc.... Now if an equal amount of youger generation kids drove in on Ninja's, Duc's, or R1's and they were equiped with aftermarket exhaust, they would be percieved as violent, immature, trouble makers on load bikes, when a stock Harley is ten times louder. What I'm getting at is, if it pisses off the locale, then they can pee up a rope! I'm not hurting anyone. And as a matter of fact it might be saving a life. Ever heard the term "loud pipes save lives"!! Ever accidentally changed lanes and not seen the car in your blind spot? I bet you have never done that with a Harley next to you? Ever been driving and not know a boat is next to you or beside you and almost hit them? Ever heard a very "quiet" boat on the lake? I want to do this for more reasons then to make the boat loud. I dont believe in catalytic convertors, and EGR valves. I was born in 74' and missed out on the muscle car generation. Those days are gone and anything I can do to put myself in that era, you can bet your bottom dollar I'm gonna do it.

All I can say is.......I'm damn glad that you're about as far geographically possible from me with that attitude you have.
- excessive atv and snowmobile noise, caused my mod'd exhausts is definitely getting trails closed in the eastern US and entire freaking areas closed in the west. Google this and you'll see a huge # of examples.
- "While this may be true, I haven't EVER heard of or seen a quiet Harley." ---go down to your local dealer and ask them to start ANY new (unmodified) one on the showroom floor. Harleys are as quiet as any Honda or Yamaha etc. All street bikes are tested to the SAME standards.
- I think most people have heard the saying 'loud pipes save lives' --- I personally think that is is one of the stupider sayings I've ever heard (and I've been riding street bikes for 30yrs, with about 200k on the odo.) and for any motocyclist to actually rely on their exhaust noise to protect them against other drivers is just plain, well, stupid.
- "Ever been driving and not know a boat is next to you or beside you and almost hit them?" ------- because that boat is 'too quiet', um......no. I prefer to know what all the other boats around me are by actually paying attention and watching them.

Sorry, but your attitude relating what YOU can do on the lake, in the wilderness and even on the road is just plain selfish..... and it does affects other people (on the lake and in the wilderness especially) very negatively.

learjet2230
01-13-2008, 10:42 AM
Most self proclaimed "enviromentalists" such as yourself are hypocrits. You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. That is all it is is your viewpoint. Now if you and how you back up your viewpoint is stricly up to you. I suspect that your viewpoint on the enviroment is not that strong. We all biitch about things. We all oppose viewpoints and opinions of one another. It is called debate. Why we have to impose those thoughts on others and try to get them to think like the other is beyond me. Makes me think of a lot of touchy subjects......Religion, politics, global warming. Maybe the polar ice caps are melting for the simple fact that there are just too many MC owners in the world and the hot exhaust heats the water too much, a great conspiricy theory. Hell I dont know, neither do I really care, nor can I really do anything about it. But our buddy Al Gore is on the map about it, yet have you seen his house. I wouldn't exactly call it enviromentally friendly! Being in the industry that I am in, I see a lot of "fake" stuff. I see people that preach on TV and "heal" the world and impose the values that you WANT to hear. But the jet they fly around on is 30 million + and full of "non-needed medication" if ya know what I mean. Who do you think payed for that? This world is full of "fake" stuff. Dont be fake!! I could go on and on and on, but I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone on here. I asked the simple statement at the beginning of this thread, not what your feelings and thoughts were regarding the impact on the enviroment and how I should. Not how the Golden speckle-bellied Osprey is affected. Not how the trees in Alaska are reduced in life 12 million years later. People, get off your tree-hugging kick. If ya'll (some of you) were true enviromentalists, you wouldn't even be on this forum, because you wouldn't own a boat, definately a gas powered one. Your time would be better spent in an Arbor day parade for the Live Oak society of Antartica. Get off my case with the enviroment, and passing judgement on me for my viewpoint!! JDK, stay in Canada for all I care, until you need something from the good ol' US. Then come on over just like the rest of the freaking world. Call us up when your military cant handle an invasion. But just be forwarned, our planes dont have mufflers!

thijs
01-13-2008, 12:04 PM
Then come on over just like the rest of the freaking world. Call us up when your military cant handle an invasion. But just be forwarned, our planes dont have mufflers!

Ouch buddy!

shepherd
01-13-2008, 01:54 PM
Ouch buddy!


:uglyhamme :popcorn:

TMCNo1
01-13-2008, 03:02 PM
I bet a C147 full of paratroopers with a set of Flowmasters would sound awesome!

learjet2230
01-13-2008, 05:36 PM
Could you imagine the header install? But it would have to have the optional Captains Choice for those "covert" missions!!

JDK
01-13-2008, 10:38 PM
Most self proclaimed "enviromentalists" such as yourself are hypocrits.

Dude......sorry, after reading this sentence, I couldn't continue reading your diatribe because I was laughing too hard.
I don't think anyone who knows what I do for work or recreation would call me an environmentalist......I guess I just don't have the 'syndrome' that some guys have --- some call it 'look at me' and some call it something else.8p

vision
01-13-2008, 11:32 PM
Alright, maybe I missed it in the thread somewhere (probably), but how would you quiet a MC? Yes, yes, I know. You would never want to make it quieter, muffle that great V8 rumble, rob HP, etc. I think we have beat that dead horse to hamburger and served it up with fries.

However, I would appreciate a quieter boat, especially at speed while 65 feet behind it. Our 08 X-star with a catalytic converter is clearly more annoying (different tone) than our old 05 X2. Much more of a popping sound. In the boat, not terrible. At idle, it has a beautiful sound. But behind the boat at speed it is not pleasant. Cut the volume by 50% making the conversation and music easier to hear and I would enjoy my boat (as would my neighbors) even more. Plus much easier to yell instructions from the boat to the rider.

Anyone have personal experience on a MC with a Fresh Air Exhaust system? I have been told that the new 6 cylinder diesel MCs are significantly quieter from behind at speed. Anyone had the pleasure of riding behind one?

stuartmcnair
01-14-2008, 02:12 PM
there was a thread on here once about adding the below water exhaust system which was basically PVC pipe at a 90 so it put the exhaust out below the waterline.

Roonie's
01-14-2008, 02:35 PM
If you want a loud boat stick a flexible tube to the exhaust and run up the side of the boat and duct tape it to your ear.

thijs
01-14-2008, 02:44 PM
How about this setup? I bet there is no BHP robbing here, and I venture to guess this might be loud enough.........

Jayc
01-15-2008, 12:54 PM
there was a thread on here once about adding the below water exhaust system which was basically PVC pipe at a 90 so it put the exhaust out below the waterline.

I guess kind of like the fresh air exhausts they offer?

I have thought about some kind of DIY below the waterline contraption to go on the exhaust tips. Like I said before the exhaust noise of my 84 S&S is louder than I would like. I could add silencers but over here int he UK they are very expensive. A DIY turned down tip to push the exhaust into the water could be made for next to nothing but I'm really not sure if PVC would stand the heat or force from the water.

chudson
01-15-2008, 03:12 PM
What is everyone's opinion? Has anyone done it with good results? done it and switched back? Haven't done it and want too. I have some 3" hose coming to me tomorrow and hope to possibly get the mufflers removed this weekend. Just looking for thoughts and opinions.

Geez would I be Thread Jacking if I gave my opinion in ten words or less!!!:D :rolleyes:
1. Love the sweet sound of my boat with mufflers in!!!! (TEN WORDS EXACTLY)

454Prostar190
01-15-2008, 04:01 PM
I don't have any mufflers on my big block. Sounds great from the drivers seat but, if you're sitting in the rear..... It really rumbles and is loud at anything over 5mph. Maybe I'll put mufflers..... NAW!!:)

thijs
01-15-2008, 04:09 PM
I don't have any mufflers on my big block. Sounds great from the drivers seat but, if you're sitting in the rear..... It really rumbles and is loud at anything over 5mph. Maybe I'll put mufflers..... NAW!!

Just checked out your pics. I don't think that setup came stock!!? What kind of power is that thing pushing???

454Prostar190
01-15-2008, 04:13 PM
Came stock! Has a "-D" in the MC serial number that stands for "Demo".
425 hp/ 454

454Prostar190
01-15-2008, 06:21 PM
Didn't mean to kill this thread:(

03 35th Anniversary
01-15-2008, 06:44 PM
Didn't mean to kill this thread:(PM coming to you...... :mad:

learjet2230
01-15-2008, 06:47 PM
That engine with mufflers would be a crime....SWEET! I want one!

learjet2230
01-15-2008, 07:28 PM
How about this setup? I bet there is no BHP robbing here, and I venture to guess this might be loud enough.........
Holy cow! What a roomy set of back seats you have. Is it mandatory to wear a flak jacket for when the driveshaft and/or SC explodes, and what about Nomex socks for those stingy header burns!?

BrandonKTM
01-19-2008, 04:46 PM
I just replaced the Mufflers in my 84 S & S. Had to as the old ones fiberglas deteriorated so much water leaked thru them at the rate thet could sink the boat! Anyway, the old ones and the new ones are basically straight pipes as the picture of a pair above showed BUT they really are not straight. Inside them are two pieces of fiberglas, one at each end of the large diameter portion. Those pieces trap water in the bottom for 2 reasons. First it keeps water from backing up into the engine and Second, that water reduces the sound level. Anyone who thinks that two 3" dia pipes are restrictive doesn't have a clue. Your carb (or your EFI) can't pull enough air thru it to fill any larger pipe.

panshovel68
04-21-2009, 11:08 PM
Holy smoke the last 5 pages in this thread are too damn funny:)