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View Full Version : Sexy PS 190 for under $15k


HoustonAttorney
01-06-2008, 12:31 PM
If you are like me you are nestled by the fireplace not thinking too much about boating. But, I need to sell my boat and I can't help but think someone out there needs a really nice Mastercraft for less than $15K. So please check out my posting in the Pro Star section of the classifieds.

http://www.tmcowners.com/market/showproduct.php?product=1847&cat=5

The way I see it, selling a boat is kind of like getting married--it just takes one good buyer! :D

Thanks for taking a look.

André
01-06-2008, 12:34 PM
If you are like me you are nestled by the fireplace not thinking too much about boating. But, I need to sell my boat and I can't help but think someone out there needs a really nice Mastercraft for less than $15K. So please check out my posting in the Pro Star section of the classifieds.

http://www.tmcowners.com/market/showproduct.php?product=1847&cat=5

The way I see it, selling a boat is kind of like getting married--it just takes one good buyer! :D

Thanks for taking a look.
Nice boat!
What's the replacement?

HoustonAttorney
01-06-2008, 12:38 PM
Thanks but you are so fast you replied before I had a chance to edit.

I am scared to answer your question about the replacement for fear of being chided, ostracized and lectured to death by the wise members of the forum.

I still love Mastercraft but sometimes good things have to come to a (temporary?) end?

Dawg
01-06-2008, 12:43 PM
Sounds like someone's going "bu", I hope it's not bu-hoo!

erkoehler
01-06-2008, 01:08 PM
Sent you a PM....

Aric'sX15
01-06-2008, 01:28 PM
Sounds like he's going to a CC?


Oh and say no to Bu's!

HoustonAttorney
01-06-2008, 03:11 PM
I had to ask myself, what is worse...1) going with a nonMastercraft or 2) going boatless. At least I am going to stay on the water.

88 PS190
01-06-2008, 03:18 PM
I'd say sounds like a moomba...

Aric'sX15
01-06-2008, 05:22 PM
i would go with an older mastercraft!

JohnE
01-06-2008, 07:35 PM
In my best salesman voice: "I want you in the right boat for you, whether or not it is a Mastercraft".:D So what is the new boat? We're not that censored, are we here?

And with all due respect, is that a little high for a '91? Looks like a really sweet boat, though.

east tx skier
01-06-2008, 08:23 PM
Does it really have a 351 Cleveland or did you mean Windsor?

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Excuse this post...sorry

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 09:12 AM
In my best salesman voice: "I want you in the right boat for you, whether or not it is a Mastercraft".:D So what is the new boat? We're not that censored, are we here?

And with all due respect, is that a little high for a '91? Looks like a really sweet boat, though.
IMO, and I am not a boat salesman, you really can't find a boat in this condition, with this set up, for the asking price.

How many 17 year old boats with 1200 hours look so good and still have original carpet, skins, motor, transmission etc.? Of course the owner for the first 1000 hours was a pilot for American Airlines and I have to give him most of the credit for keeping it so well maintained.

I feel like I am bragging, but this boat is in really terrific shape.

oldriver
01-07-2008, 09:34 AM
There is not a person on here that would argue the shape of your boat.Sure its a beauty as stated.
The hard core working people here can only get a loan for a vehicle,in most cases up to 80% of the boats book value so we use that as a guide and guess unless its a boathouse queen then cant justify any more money than that.So bottom line is we wont consider things above current value if we need to borrow for them.The banks balk at that as well,for good reason.Wish you luck,someone will take that off your hands and I am sure it will be missed when its gone

east tx skier
01-07-2008, 09:56 AM
Good luck with your sale and don't sell it for a penny less than you feel you deserve. If someone doesn't think it's worth the asking price, they certainly don't have to buy it. One thing about older boats, MC sure isn't making any more of them.

But to ask again, is it really a 351C??? That would be an extremely rare engine for a 91 Pro Star and certainly not what came from the factory.

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 11:10 AM
Yes, Easttx I believe the engine is a 351 Cleveland.

And as for the price, the only people who have told me I am too high are people who have never seen it.

BrianM
01-07-2008, 11:14 AM
Yes, Easttx I believe the engine is a 351 Cleveland.

And as for the price, the only people who have told me I am too high are people who have never seen it.
I highly doubt the boat has a Cleveland. That is a 'big block' Ford. As stated by Easty that would not be original equipment and would have required a modification to get it in including motor mounts and more than likely another engine cover to accomodate the wider longer block. Since you have the boat listed as 240hp (which is the listed HP for the standard 351w) I will say that you are wrong about the Cleveland and that the boat actually has the original 351 Windsor block that it came with from MC.

Ric
01-07-2008, 11:27 AM
brian, isn't there a simple way to spot a W from a Cleveland? Some count of valve cover bolts or some basic identifier like that

shepherd
01-07-2008, 11:41 AM
In my best salesman voice: "I want you in the right boat for you, whether or not it is a Mastercraft".:D So what is the new boat? We're not that censored, are we here?

And with all due respect, is that a little high for a '91? Looks like a really sweet boat, though.

If you're starting a pool, I'll say he's getting an Air Nautique. :cool:

Price seems high to me too, but I hope you get it. BTW, I bet it's a Windsor too.

TMCNo1
01-07-2008, 11:43 AM
Yes, Easttx I believe the engine is a 351 Cleveland.

And as for the price, the only people who have told me I am too high are people who have never seen it.


30601
I think a engine serial number and a call to Indmar is in order!
Here is a link, http://www.indmar.com/About/ContactIndmar/index.html

BrianM
01-07-2008, 12:36 PM
brian, isn't there a simple way to spot a W from a Cleveland? Some count of valve cover bolts or some basic identifier like that

Valve covers have 6 bolts on the Windsor. The Cleveland has 8.

Ric
01-07-2008, 12:36 PM
There ya go!

92 190 PS
01-07-2008, 12:47 PM
Yes, Easttx I believe the engine is a 351 Cleveland.

And as for the price, the only people who have told me I am too high are people who have never seen it.

I have a very clean 92 with 1/3 the hours your boat has and I'm pulling hard for you and your asking price. :)

Ric
01-07-2008, 12:59 PM
Houston, before you jump ship, you do know we have a new dealer don't you?

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=17739 (http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=17739&highlight=houston)

I mean, I hear they are aggies, but nobody is perfect right?

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 03:15 PM
Truth be known, sale is now pending, subject to a test drive, at the asking price. This occurred in less than 24 hours.

Here is a tip to other sellers: put your used boat up for sale right after the boat show in your area. $15k for a boat in this condition looks pretty darn good to folks who leave the show with $50,000+ worth of sticker shock.

oldriver
01-07-2008, 03:17 PM
good for you,sure makes me feel alot better about what I paid for mine......
maybe someone wants to buy mine!!!!!!!

H20skeefreek
01-07-2008, 03:23 PM
I highly doubt the boat has a Cleveland. That is a 'big block' Ford. As stated by Easty that would not be original equipment and would have required a modification to get it in including motor mounts and more than likely another engine cover to accomodate the wider longer block. Since you have the boat listed as 240hp (which is the listed HP for the standard 351w) I will say that you are wrong about the Cleveland and that the boat actually has the original 351 Windsor block that it came with from MC.
The 351 Cleveland is not a big block.

Ric
01-07-2008, 03:35 PM
Truth be known, sale is now pending, subject to a test drive, at the asking price. This occurred in less than 24 hours.

Here is a tip to other sellers: put your used boat up for sale right after the boat show in your area. $15k for a boat in this condition looks pretty darn good to folks who leave the show with $50,000+ worth of sticker shock. Dammit, is the boat show over?

stuartmcnair
01-07-2008, 03:36 PM
well, it sort of is...

I had a 73 Mustang convertible with a cleveland in it. It is referred to as a small big block. It is cut from a different block than the Windsor.

H20skeefreek
01-07-2008, 03:41 PM
It is cut from a different block than the Windsor family, but still a small block.

Ric
01-07-2008, 04:00 PM
I am a young fella, but had never heard the terms big block and small block used to describe f'd motors.

H20skeefreek
01-07-2008, 04:15 PM
Fella? I thought you were a woman?

Ric
01-07-2008, 04:24 PM
Fella? I thought you were a woman? I'll never tell

shepherd
01-07-2008, 04:29 PM
So, what is the difference between a "small block" and "big block?"

H20skeefreek
01-07-2008, 04:32 PM
uh....the size of the block. The block dimensions on the cleveland and windsor blocks are almost the same. The heads on the Cleveland are huge though, which is why many people think it's a big block.




351 Cleveland 29 x 25.5 x 27.5 550lbs

351 Windsor 29 x 25 x 29 525lbs

shepherd
01-07-2008, 04:41 PM
Here's one guy's answer on the Mustang forum:

Ford and Chevy called their V-8's small or big blocks. The 302/305 and lesser c.i. motors are small blocks. Most stock c.i. motors over 400 are big blocks. The grey area is in the 300's. Ford built 3 different 351 c.i. blocks. The small block 351W (windsor) is based on the 289,302 style and has a smaller exterior dimension. The big block 351C (Cleveland) has larger outside dimensions, but still has bore and stroke equalling 351 c.i. Most parts don't interchange. The 351M (modified) is sister to the 400M and even less parts interchange, especially the head gaskets come to mind.

Then another guy says: "The big/small block analogy does not fit Ford engines at all, they are GM terms, used to describe GM engines."


So, the answer is nobody knows, you're both right, and it doesn't really matter.

88 PS190
01-07-2008, 06:20 PM
This is not the website to expect top $$ for a 91 with aftermarket tower, radio install etc. and get the money out of that.

Boats real selling points in my opinion.

Clean 91 with a powerslot. Accuski speed controls are loved by many but kind of obscure, I have not been able to discern if they are still in business, which is a bit of a disadvantage as perfect pass has really been the victor.

Not selling points: no mention of trailer integrity, often MC trailers of this age need some work particularly if the trailer was stored outdoors during summers.

Tower... well everyone will do something different on this, I don't need one, or like them. Extra weight, and you cannot crank the boat up into the canopy to keep it dry in storms.

Radio: well again everyone will do this different, I don't like them in boats, you cannot hear well over the engine, and its not really that safe if you cannot hear what your spotter is saying clearly because you've cranked the radio up over the engine. Therefore to me it is extra wiring, possible battery drain, wasted storage, and holes in the interior. I don't "hang out" in the boat, we live on the lake, get 3 people in the boat go ski, and go home for other skiers or more fuel, so that's a negative.

Hourwise it doesn't have a ton of hours, but its not a low hour boat. Got my 88 well short of half what you're asking for the 91, it had some oxidation but then again 1/3rd the hours as well.

You should be able to get what you're asking to the right person. Not someone like myself who is willing to do my own work in exchange for large savings.

But really which engine does this thing have!!! Clevelands were only produced in cars till about '82 I would find it very odd for a Marinized cleveland to pop up in an MC in 91. You can tell by the valve cover nuts (5 vs 8) and also by the spark plugs, which are smaller in clevelands.

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 09:13 PM
88 I appreciate what I think are meaningful comments and fair analysis. It doesn't matter whether I agree or disagree with your opinions because they are just that and to me that is what this forum is designed for.

Trailer is in average, but perfectly functional condition by the way. I didn't intentionally gloss over this. It has always been stored inside along with the boat (boat was never in a lift, always trailered). The matching tires are 6 months old if that matters much.

What I love most about this forum is one can post and get super specific information on anything Mastercraft. But there is a whole segment of buyers out there (like mine probably) who really don't have a desire to know the micro-minutiae of a boat. For them, asking about Cleveland or Windsor is a geography question.

What they care about is performance, looks and reliability, for a decent price, all of which I can offer.

Don't get me wrong, I have resolved several fairly technical issues with this boat strictly from the meaningful advice provided herein. I love that. You cannot get it any better, any cheaper, anywhere else.

I posted here to get exactly these comments, not necessarily to sell the boat. I do admit however that I am really proud of this boat, some would say even emotionally attached. But who cares? If someone is willing to buy a 17 year old boat with 1200 hours even in great condition for $15,000, then every boat owner on this forum ought to be doing back flips about their resale value. This helps everyone.

Many of the speculators as to the replacement boat, while good and reasonable guesses, are all flat WRONG. Every single one. There is a major player and competitor out there that has yet to be mentioned.

If someone will at least say it, I will post the picture of my new ride and risk being stoned to death.

JohnE
01-07-2008, 09:22 PM
Congratulations on your pending sale and the purchase of your new Bayliner.:D

TMCNo1
01-07-2008, 09:24 PM
OMG, drbrainey bought a Bayliner, Gene would be furious and UMP would be flying into buildings repeatadly!

east tx skier
01-07-2008, 09:24 PM
If someone will at least say it, I will post the picture of my new ride and risk being stoned to death.

They don't really appreciate that here. Just take lots of pictures of your current boat and post those. I speak from experience. :)

88PS, Accuski is out of business.

88 PS190
01-07-2008, 09:25 PM
bass tracker?

alumacraft?

Chris Craft?

88 PS190
01-07-2008, 09:29 PM
I really think you underestimate how much we want to know if your boat has a Cleveland.

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 09:29 PM
Nope nope and nope. Although I wonder what would happen if you put about 1200 pounds in a basstracker.

88 PS190
01-07-2008, 09:31 PM
88PS, Accuski is out of business.

ah yes thought so, unfortunate as I do agree with the cult, its a nice product.

Tiga-woods? = tige?

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 09:32 PM
I really think you underestimate how much we want to know if your boat has a Cleveland.

I am not the most motor minded. Dumb down what I need to look for when I go to the boat shed this weekend and I will report back as one of my few meaningful contributions to this forum, ok?

88 PS190
01-07-2008, 09:32 PM
Nope nope and nope. Although I wonder what would happen if you put about 1200 pounds in a basstracker.

you become this guy

http://www.riverbills.com/pic_of_the_day/062105_redneck_bass_boat.jpg

east tx skier
01-07-2008, 09:34 PM
Probably a Supra.

88 PS190
01-07-2008, 09:35 PM
Ah yes, pretty simple just count how many nuts there are to hold the valve covers on.

If there are 8 of them per cover your boat is one of a kind so far as I know, and then maybe the mastercraft company will trade you for a new boat ;).

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 09:37 PM
Ah yes, pretty simple just count how many nuts there are to hold the valve covers on.

If there are 8 of them per cover your boat is one of a kind so far as I know, and then maybe the mastercraft company will trade you for a new boat ;).

Oh believe me, it is a one of a kind :D

I will check it out...

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 09:38 PM
Probably a Supra.

Ding, ding, ding. What do we have for him Johnny?

east tx skier
01-07-2008, 09:41 PM
Also, I believe the Cleveland had an integrated cover over the timing chain. I'll bet $.25 it's a Windsor. Why on earth wouldn't it be.

east tx skier
01-07-2008, 09:42 PM
Ding, ding, ding. What do we have for him Johnny?

Lake Austin is full of 'em. My brother in law has a 99 Comp. Nice little boat. Throws a big soft wake, but I think it could do better with an adjustment to the cavitation plate.

HoustonAttorney
01-07-2008, 09:44 PM
Career change here. I am going to hang up the slalom ski and go wakeboarding full time.

88 PS190
01-07-2008, 09:46 PM
lots of people talk highly of supra.

Supra + moomba = skiers choice.

88 PS190
01-07-2008, 09:47 PM
Career change here. I am going to hang up the slalom ski and go wakeboarding full time.

boo!!! BOOO!!!!

oh well, everyone is.

I guess us slalom skiers need wakeboarders to keep our boat companies alive anyway.

east tx skier
01-07-2008, 09:47 PM
I bought a boat from a guy who had similar plans. A month later, he emailed me how much he missed his boat for those few days he still threw on the slalom ski. I sent him a picture.

Good luck.

shepherd
01-07-2008, 09:56 PM
Career change here. I am going to hang up the slalom ski and go wakeboarding full time.

I understand. That slalom stuff is pretty difficult. ;)

TX.X-30 fan
01-07-2008, 09:57 PM
lots of people talk highly of supra.

Supra + moomba = skiers choice.




Never heard that before on here? :confused: :confused:


Moonba, you have to be smoking something illegal?????

shepherd
01-07-2008, 10:01 PM
I do admit however that I am really proud of this boat, some would say even emotionally attached. But who cares? If someone is willing to buy a 17 year old boat with 1200 hours even in great condition for $15,000, then every boat owner on this forum ought to be doing back flips about their resale value. This helps everyone.
.

That is a boat to be proud of and I'm glad you got a good price for it. I'm sure the decision to sell it and buy the other boat was the best decision for you. I for one would like to see a pic of your new boat.

And thanks for the resale value boost!

c640947
01-08-2008, 08:47 PM
Ah you went with Rinkers.

Did you stop by Houston Mastercraft and check out their new boats? There is a reason your prostar lasted a long time like mine did.

HoustonAttorney
01-09-2008, 09:47 AM
Ah you went with Rinkers.

Did you stop by Houston Mastercraft and check out their new boats? There is a reason your prostar lasted a long time like mine did.

Andrew, I did stop by. There is no doubt in my mind that a new Mastercraft could serve my needs completely. Wife has other plans for the next $65,000 we make however.

I just had a great opportunity to buy the other boat and could not pass it up.

And another round of kudos to you Andrew. Your excellent pictures and write up of your former 190 all over the net inspired a lot of what I did to mine. If it sounds like I am being overly nice, I am. Since I won't be a MC owner, I need to make sure I stay friends with those who are, particularly those with boats as nice as yours! Ha.

Ric
01-09-2008, 11:27 AM
Cool story Attorney. I'll say that I shopped N and S as well when I sold my 190 and ultimately chose the world record holding 197.

From my experience, Rinkers didn't price the comp lsv in a way that would make me jump. Don't know how much room they have in their pricing. The boat skiid fine and looked good, but the pricing needed to be way less than a 197 to get me to jump and it just wasn't...

littlemax
01-09-2008, 07:08 PM
Another easy way to tell the 351W from the 351C is by the intake. The coolant hose runs into and through the intake on the Windsor and down into the block on the Cleveland. If this boat has a Cleveland block I highly doubt it was put there by factory being that 1974 was the last year Ford produced a Cleveland block.

First On Race Day

east tx skier
01-09-2008, 08:19 PM
I want pictures at this point.