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View Full Version : Toyota Overtakes Ford as #2...


Tom023
01-03-2008, 05:18 PM
...and to think they did it with inferior product :rolleyes:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080103/auto_sales.html

VirtualWi
01-03-2008, 05:21 PM
not surprising - I am sure you mean "inferior" as "better" in this case ;) Kidding of course. I believe that really nobody makes a poor vehicle anymore...you can pretty much drive anything off any lot and expect it to run well for a long time.

sdesmond
01-03-2008, 05:27 PM
not surprising - I am sure you mean "inferior" as "better" in this case ;) Kidding of course. I believe that really nobody makes a poor vehicle anymore...you can pretty much drive anything off any lot and expect it to run well for a long time.


I dont think I will ever trust a KIA.

atlfootr
01-03-2008, 05:29 PM
I dont think I will ever trust a KIA.threadjack http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sign/sign0101.gif (http://www.videowhip.co.uk/) :rolleyes: :D

School Skier
01-03-2008, 07:09 PM
We had three Fords in 36 years! Two of them were just bad vehicles. With one we had to replace the engine at 27,000 miles with no help from Ford except that they were sorry. The next one fell apart fairly fast we now own a Toyota Tundra and a Highlander and love them both. I have a hard time thinking I'd go back to anything else.

bucky
01-03-2008, 07:51 PM
One 94 mustang gt was all it took for me. NO MORE FORDS!
Well, I guess maybe I will keep the 54 firetruck.

TX.X-30 fan
01-03-2008, 10:25 PM
BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!!

6ballsisall
01-03-2008, 10:26 PM
Somehow I'm not surprised...........
How long before they are #1????

milkmania
01-03-2008, 10:33 PM
Somehow I'm not surprised...........
How long before they are #1????

who is #1?

VirtualWi
01-03-2008, 10:35 PM
BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!!

No come on here...with parts made here, parts made there, vehicles assembled here and there, it's not like buying a Ford/GM is what is used to mean 30 years ago. I am all for American products and supporting my country - but if I am dropping that kind of money on a vehicle, I want to be sure it lasts. I have owned 23 cars in my life and every "american" car has failed me much before its time - they were literally designed to fail. Much better today, MUCH, but IMHO, they still have some ways to go.

My "non-American" vehicle was designed in the States, produced in the States, and has parts built everywhere including the States. I guess my final check goes to Japan; however, what little they make on the car stays there and the rest gets distributed TO the States.

DemolitionMan
01-03-2008, 10:35 PM
I drive a chevy so I buy American.

DemolitionMan
01-03-2008, 10:37 PM
If you think about it what does ford offer besides trucks, mustangs, and crown vics.

TX.X-30 fan
01-03-2008, 10:37 PM
I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE ARE SO MANY AMERICAN MEN NOW THAT HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN BORN VOID OF A BRAIN AND A SET OF TESTICLES, listen CLOSLY HERE, IT IS NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THIS COUNTRY TO BUY FOREIGN AUTO'S OR SHOP AT WALLMART!!!!! ALL OF THE INDUSTRIES THAT WE HAVE EXCELLED AT WILL OR HAVE DISSAPEARED UNLESS WE SUPPORT (OUR) COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

VirtualWi
01-03-2008, 10:39 PM
I guess women don't count, eh? :) and I'll challenge you on IQ any day ;) Let's keep this civil, fair enough?

03 35th Anniversary
01-03-2008, 10:43 PM
I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE ARE SO MANY AMERICAN MEN NOW THAT HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN BORN VOID OF A BRAIN AND A SET OF TESTICLES, listen CLOSLY HERE, IT IS NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THIS COUNTRY TO BUY FOREIGN AUTO'S OR SHOP AT WALLMART!!!!! ALL OF THE INDUSTRIES THAT WE HAVE EXCELLED AT WILL OR HAVE DISSAPEARED UNLESS WE SUPPORT (OUR) COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!Well put, thats one of the reason I buy Ford or GM Trucks.

TX.X-30 fan
01-03-2008, 11:01 PM
I guess women don't count, eh? :) and I'll challenge you on IQ any day ;) Let's keep this civil, fair enough?



I'll challenge you on IQ any day???? Let's keep this civil??? Those two statement don't seem to go together now do they. Please in the future if you are unable to comprehend my posts just refrain from replying EHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

VirtualWi
01-03-2008, 11:09 PM
exactly my point. Ugh.

Monte
01-03-2008, 11:24 PM
I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE ARE SO MANY AMERICAN MEN NOW THAT HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN BORN VOID OF A BRAIN AND A SET OF TESTICLES, listen CLOSLY HERE, IT IS NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THIS COUNTRY TO BUY FOREIGN AUTO'S OR SHOP AT WALLMART!!!!! ALL OF THE INDUSTRIES THAT WE HAVE EXCELLED AT WILL OR HAVE DISSAPEARED UNLESS WE SUPPORT (OUR) COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen.. GMC truck, GMC Envoy,:D Dodge caravan:o

And I sure as hell don't shop at Wal-Mart:)

03 35th Anniversary
01-03-2008, 11:24 PM
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=30531..............You can tell its winter time............... :D

Tell him how you really feel TX.....

6ballsisall
01-03-2008, 11:39 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Monte
01-03-2008, 11:45 PM
I have to admit.. In my own parking lot at work, when I started 7 years ago there were mostly Explorers and Tarui, now almost everybody has a camary except me.. GMC;)

east tx skier
01-03-2008, 11:53 PM
One 94 mustang gt was all it took for me. NO MORE FORDS!
Well, I guess maybe I will keep the 54 firetruck.

89 Mustang and no more Ford (cars) for me. I have an Expedition that does just fine pulling the boat and not much else is asked of it (94K miles and counting). I've been happy with my Ford trucks and will continue to buy them. Nothing against Chevys. I just don't really like the way they drive compared to the Fords.

But as for cars, I'm going with reliability. My wife just sold her 97 Explorer with 267,416 nearly trouble free miles on it. Not wanting another SUV, she just bought an 02 Avalon. However, she bought it from a Caddilac dealership. As far as I can tell, no money left the country in this transaction.

Buy used!

Monte
01-04-2008, 12:01 AM
I've owned 17 mustangs.. Not one of them gave me any trouble...

But they sure as hell got me into trouble......

TX.X-30 fan
01-04-2008, 12:13 AM
You can tell its winter time............... :D

Tell him how you really feel TX.....


I have too low an IQ so I have to use pictures!!! Run Forrest run. 8p

DemolitionMan
01-04-2008, 12:28 AM
Every one in my family drives a gm product. Every company vehicle we own is a gm product which would be 20 of them or a mack truck which would be 12 of them. Im not sure what we are going to do now that mack was bought by volvo. The only foreign made equipment we own are 6 jcb excavators which are made in england. Its sad that there are no excavators built in America any more not even cat or john deere.

VirtualWi
01-04-2008, 12:34 AM
You know...I'll apologize...sorry for the IQ comment. I took your "VOID OF A BRAIN" literally and as a cut...no biggie. Seriously, I don't want this tread or this great site to become so angry and childish. So sorry I got this started in the first place. Everyone has a choice in the matter on what they buy and if I ever need a full-size vehicle, I would definitely purchase GM.

So again to everyone - sorry I got you so upset.

east tx skier
01-04-2008, 12:51 AM
Not trying to reignite anything, but this is definitely an interesting read. I'll admit to being as confused as anyone by where the parts that comprise our cars come from.

Is it made in America? How do you tell which car is more American? (http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/is-it-made-in-america/20070329142409990001)

A few highlights.

2007 Ford Expedition composed of 95 percent U.S. or Canadian parts, and it was made in Michigan.

2007 Suburban is apparently built in Mexico. Couldn't find the parts %, but suffice it to say, from what I've read elsewhere, late model GM vehicles are using some foreign parts.

"We're very proud for the economic role we play in this country," says GM spokesman Greg Martin. "However, we're a global car company that happens to be based in the United States."

TX.X-30 fan
01-04-2008, 01:08 AM
All I was trying to say is that if we don't build stuff here anymore we will all be servicing each other?? As I type this on my Fujitsu laptop I wonder where we are headed. No offence to anyone was intended, well except that east tx dude because I sense he's a lost cause?

east tx skier
01-04-2008, 01:14 AM
LOL! Hey, I've got 95% domestic content, right? Hey, and I've got a Ford in my boat, too! (honestly, I thought it was lower on Fords overall). I'm going to stop reading now. It's getting strange reading about so many GM plants in China.

"As goes General Motors, so goes the nation."

JBaker
01-04-2008, 01:23 AM
Is this the anti-globalization thread?:rolleyes:

east tx skier
01-04-2008, 01:53 AM
Is this the anti-globalization thread?:rolleyes:

No, that's down the hall to the right.

bigmac
01-04-2008, 06:49 AM
All I was trying to say is that if we don't build stuff here anymore we will all be servicing each other?? As I type this on my Fujitsu laptop I wonder where we are headed. No offence to anyone was intended, well except that east tx dude because I sense he's a lost cause?We've priced ourselves out of the global labor market. We are the only people in the world who can afford to buy the stuff that we manufacture.

Jesus_Freak
01-04-2008, 06:54 AM
We've priced ourselves out of the global labor market. We are the only people in the world who can afford to buy the stuff that we manufacture.

Yes! Free trade works.

Mikey
01-04-2008, 07:37 AM
Its sad that there are no excavators built in America any more not even cat or john deere.

Arent Komatsu's and Cat's built in Peoria, Illinois?:confused:

VirtualWi
01-04-2008, 07:53 AM
I guess my original comment referred to this (finally found it!). I worked at GM for quite a while where we built Suburbans/Tahoes and Medium-duty trucks. More and more went down to Mexico for that production for all the "corporate benefits" (lower wage, etc.). That US plant still produces the Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon/Yukon XL, but still along with Mexico.

if you follow the link embedded in the story below, you will see that the Chevy Silverado (my truck of choice if I needed one) is the "most" American.

http://www.autobytel.com/Images/newsletters/July/5.html

"But what exactly does “Made in America” mean? Well, according to the American Automobile Labeling Act, a vehicle can be marketed as “Made in America” if it’s assembled in the U.S. and 75% or more of its parts were made in America.1 By this standard, the Ford Mustang – the iconic American pony car – is technically not “Made in America.” Neither is the “All-American” Chevy Suburban (which is, in fact, only 67% American). And it can be just as confusing for import brands. For example, while many think that most Toyotas sold in the U.S. are built in the U.S., it’s actually a model-specific issue: The Camry is assembled here (with more American-made parts/content than the Mustang), but the Highlander is made in Japan with only 5% American content."

I do think that they should also consider as part of that 75% how much goes into design and engineering. For instance, I would think the Mustang would be OVER that 75% if the factor in the design, engineering, etc. into it, not just where the parts and cars are assembled.

Also, GM will not be hurting anymore, either...they plan on selling 1 million cars in China this year. That is their fastest-growing market.

TX.X-30 fan
01-04-2008, 09:41 AM
Interesting stuff there Virtualwi, I know its a world market now I still believe its in our national interest to have a strong manufacturing base. We need to tackle some of the problems like bigmac alluded to. Labor, govt. regs, unions, environmental concerns. I think if we wanted to we could find a way to make widgets better and at a fair to be competitive.

VirtualWi
01-04-2008, 09:45 AM
Interesting stuff there Virtualwi, I know its a world market now I still believe its in our national interest to have a strong manufacturing base. We need to tackle some of the problems like bigmac alluded to. Labor, govt. regs, unions, environmental concerns. I think if we wanted to we could find a way to make widgets better and at a fair to be competitive.

Agree 100% :)

Dan K
01-04-2008, 09:56 AM
somewhat related fact:
GM provides health care benefits to someone in virtually every zip code in the US. They are the largest provider of health care benefits worldwide.
GM, alone, spent $4.8 billion on health care last year for 1.1 million employees, retirees, and dependents in the U.S. , including $1.3 billion on prescription drugs.
Toyota and Ford don't come close to that combined.

Monte
01-04-2008, 09:59 AM
GM will not be hurting anymore, either...they plan on selling 1 million cars in China this year. That is their fastest-growing market.

THAT is a lot of Aveos.. But hey! If it helps OUR economy:cool:

ShamrockIV
01-04-2008, 10:03 AM
IMHO Toyotas are really expensive!!! I know all cars are expensive now but toyotas are really high. parts are ridiculous!!! I guess i am just a red blooded american but nobody builds trucks with V8's like Americans !!!!!

TX.X-30 fan
01-04-2008, 10:04 AM
somewhat related fact:
GM provides health care benefits to someone in virtually every zip code in the US. They are the largest provider of health care benefits worldwide.
GM, alone, spent $4.8 billion on health care last year for 1.1 million employees, retirees, and dependents in the U.S. , including $1.3 billion on prescription drugs.
Toyota and Ford don't come close to that combined.



Very related, they essentially gave the company away with those union deals.

And look what it has done to the rank and file over the years, Layoffs plant closings....... In the end who was hurt by the very organizations that claimed to be protecting employee's.

phecksel
01-04-2008, 08:49 PM
Being right in the middle of the auto industry, working in it directly or indirectly for well over 20 years and living in the detroit area gives me an interesting perspective. As recent as seven years ago, the east side of the Detroit suburbs had tool shop after tool shop after tool shop. Those union tool workers bought houses, cars, boats, and cottages in northern michigan. The shops paid a lot of money in taxes. All those sales generated taxes for the state.

Auto companies accelerated their tool building off shore. Those tool shops are now empty buildings. The workers are gone, or working for substantially lower wages. You can't give away a cottage in northern michigan. House sales have tanked like I could have never imagined. State is very quickly heading towards bankruptcy. Lot of families are living in substantially reduced lifestyles. Not buying boats or cars.

This is a good indication of what's going to happen if we continue buying products made overseas. The foreign manufacturers play games to fake the percentage of North American content. This is a completely inaccurate example, but if an alternator is shipped from china to US, and a screw is installed in OH, and shipped to the assembly plant, it's considered NA content.

Auto companies were given no choice in agreeing to the high wages. Strikes are way too costly to not settle... short term. We're seeing the resultant impact now. But, it's hard to justify anybody being worth tens of millions of dollars, even if they are successful.

More then anything, I fear a contracting economy with deflation. Wages are going down, prices are going up, unemployment is going up. Without those wages, people can't install those fancy counter tops, build new houses, or buy new boats. Boat dealers don't need extra sales or service support, or worse, begin to close. I suspect we're going to end up with wages less then where we are today. US Auto mfg's will assemble modules built in China, India, or Russia.

What is the solution, I have no idea. I'd like to see anybody whining about the union wages to be the first to stand up and offer to reduce their own pay. If you had a choice of keeping your job at reduced wages, or being unemployed, which would you choose? Think about your own jobs, is it a person that lives in Japan, China, or India that is a customer of your employer and pays your wages?

I'd love to see some leadership, but government has a tendency to attract incompetents only concerned with their own skin or future.

stuartmcnair
01-04-2008, 10:18 PM
I have to jump in on this. Here in the "new Detroit" (Alabama) we have Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai's being built.

The wages at the Mercedes plant down the road from me are very good. The people are well taken care of. MBUSI is a non-union shop and it drives the UAW insane. Billboards along the highway trying to convince the workers to go union, organization rallies, and pressure from pro union folks is constant.

If you look at all the automakers you can look at the union contracts and see where the problems come from. The unions served a purpose once but at this point they are bringing our manufacturing industry to its knees.

Another culprit is the tax structure in Michigan. The higher tax rates are pushing companies to look to lower tax states like Alabama for new plants. We appreciate it but I can see where it really hurts the workers in Michigan.

I don't have a dog in this fight either way since I am not in the industry but from an outsider looking in it is pretty easy to see.

Stuart

bigmac
01-04-2008, 10:28 PM
Yes! Free trade works.It does indeed. It works especially well in emerging nations. In the USA however, not so much. It has transformed our economy into a house of cards that is now starting to crumble.

phecksel
01-04-2008, 11:19 PM
I have to jump in on this. Here in the "new Detroit" (Alabama) we have Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai's being built.

The wages at the Mercedes plant down the road from me are very good. The people are well taken care of. MBUSI is a non-union shop and it drives the UAW insane. Billboards along the highway trying to convince the workers to go union, organization rallies, and pressure from pro union folks is constant.

If you look at all the automakers you can look at the union contracts and see where the problems come from. The unions served a purpose once but at this point they are bringing our manufacturing industry to its knees.

Another culprit is the tax structure in Michigan. The higher tax rates are pushing companies to look to lower tax states like Alabama for new plants. We appreciate it but I can see where it really hurts the workers in Michigan.

I don't have a dog in this fight either way since I am not in the industry but from an outsider looking in it is pretty easy to see.

Stuart
The wage structure in AL is there because of the union wage structure in MI.

Don't get me started on MI taxes :( We waste so frigging much money it's ridiculous. I have no idea why, but we now have portable signs on the side of the road stating how long it will take to get to downtown Detroit. WHY and for what purpose? This in addition to the hundreds of millions dollar traffic advisory billboards. I can't remember the exact cost, but at the time couldn't believe it, couldn't even fathom that much money. We are now building a brand new state police station, and I refuse to remember how may millions that project is. Best part, the state police have stated they do not need it, nor do they want it. They are currently paying excessive lease costs of $1.00 per year, yes, that's one dollar.

6ballsisall
01-04-2008, 11:23 PM
The wage structure in AL is there because of the union wage structure in MI.

Don't get me started on MI taxes :( We waste so frigging much money it's ridiculous. I have no idea why, but we now have portable signs on the side of the road stating how long it will take to get to downtown Detroit. WHY and for what purpose? This in addition to the hundreds of millions dollar traffic advisory billboards. I can't remember the exact cost, but at the time couldn't believe it, couldn't even fathom that much money. We are now building a brand new state police station, and I refuse to remember how may millions that project is. Best part, the state police have stated they do not need it, nor do they want it. They are currently paying excessive lease costs of $1.00 per year, yes, that's one dollar.


So whats the gig in MI? Seems like if there is all this surplus money from taxes it might be wise to invest back into it's economy drivers???:confused:

Workin' 4 Toys
01-04-2008, 11:47 PM
I haven't been lucky enough to tour a Ford plant yet. However, I did get an invitation to tour the GM plant in Janesville Wisconsin just a couple months ago where the Yukon/Tahoe etc. are assembled. I was EXTREMELY impressed with what goes in there. After I left, I had a hard time comprehending this was ONE of MANY assembly and/or manufacturing plants. (I should note I was also impressed that everything I saw in the "in-house store" was made in the U.S.A.) Took a few goodies home with me.
The organization required to run an operation like that is absolutely amazing to me.
Interesting to me also the fact that they stopped building vehicles there at that plant at one point to start manufacturing supplies for the war many years ago.


Of topic..
I wonder, if the U.S. went to war with japan, china, north korea etc...Would Kia, Toyota, Honda, etc. close up a shop in the US to build supplies for a war? Or would the U.S.A. have to ask china, japan, or korea to build the supplies.. Just wonderin'...

Workin' 4 Toys
01-04-2008, 11:50 PM
Is this the anti-globalization thread?:rolleyes:
Depends on how you look at it I suppose.

phecksel
01-04-2008, 11:56 PM
I haven't been lucky enough to tour a Ford plant yet. However, I did get an invitation to tour the GM plant in Janesville Wisconsin just a couple months ago where the Yukon/Tahoe etc. are assembled. I was EXTREMELY impressed with what goes in there. After I left, I had a hard time comprehending this was ONE of MANY assembly and/or manufacturing plants. (I should note I was also impressed that everything I saw in the "in-house store" was made in the U.S.A.) Took a few goodies home with me.
The organization required to run an operation like that is absolutely amazing to me.
Interesting to me also the fact that they stopped building vehicles there at that plant at one point to start manufacturing supplies for the war many years ago.


Of topic..
I wonder, if the U.S. went to war with japan, china, north korea etc...Would Kia, Toyota, Honda, etc. close up a shop in the US to build supplies for a war? Or would the U.S.A. have to ask china, japan, or korea to build the supplies.. Just wonderin'...
I have been several different plants, and they are all very similar

WRT who would support the war effort, just look back to 911 and who supported with financial and product. Ford and GM were immediately on the spot with rescue vehicles. Followed shortly after with substantial amounts of money.

Workin' 4 Toys
01-04-2008, 11:56 PM
ETS- I have to admit. With the "Buy used" comment. It almost brought a tear to my eye.
I thought you didn't care if you supported the U.S.A.


For a moment, I thought it was you that said "I don't care if it's Made in U.S.A. or not", I just remembered it was J.R. Sorry.

east tx skier
01-05-2008, 12:00 AM
I do care and will probably always have an American tow vehicle. Our Ford trucks have been good to us. But I don't do new vehicles. I can't rationalize the depreciation.

6ballsisall
01-05-2008, 09:20 AM
ETS- I have to admit. With the "Buy used" comment. It almost brought a tear to my eye.
I thought you didn't care if you supported the U.S.A.


For a moment, I thought it was you that said "I don't care if it's Made in U.S.A. or not", I just remembered it was J.R. Sorry.


Since were slinging unneeded mud Workin, thought you might remember this one. Guess you don't care all the time either according to your own words... Just sayin.......:rolleyes: BTW, when I went to bed last night I remember having an american made SUV that I bought new in my garage.......;)

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=120671&postcount=12
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=120715&postcount=25
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=120818&postcount=56
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=120972&postcount=66

Workin' 4 Toys
01-05-2008, 09:49 PM
Dude, LMAO.....You did some diggin' there. I am honored.

Jesus_Freak
01-08-2008, 03:03 AM
It does indeed. It works especially well in emerging nations. In the USA however, not so much. It has transformed our economy into a house of cards that is now starting to crumble.

Precisely. It is still "working"...just not to our short-term benefit.

Ryan
01-08-2008, 11:49 AM
Since were slinging unneeded mud Workin, thought you might remember this one. Guess you don't care all the time either according to your own words... Just sayin.......:rolleyes: BTW, when I went to bed last night I remember having an american made SUV that I bought new in my garage.......;) ]


Nice work there Jeff.

Leroy
01-08-2008, 12:00 PM
I think of the "big 3" only GM gets it that they need to compete on a global basis and are somewhat successful now. Without the global footprint you will not be able to compete against the companies that have the global footprint.

Ryan
01-08-2008, 12:15 PM
Of topic..
I wonder, if the U.S. went to war with japan, china, north korea etc...Would Kia, Toyota, Honda, etc. close up a shop in the US to build supplies for a war? Or would the U.S.A. have to ask china, japan, or korea to build the supplies.. Just wonderin'...

It could happen. That's exactly what gave the US boon producing material and equipment on contract for european governments before we engaged in the war.

We can't fight wars like that any more. God help us if/when it does happens. We are in the day and age when big countries are too closely intertwined to go to war. Battles are fought in trade with currency more than battle equipment. They arise over economic issues rather than land and political power. There are exepcitons like Iran, and Ruwanda, and Sudan. But, we won't fight any of them with carbines. Besides if we ever go to war with China and need that manufacturing capability, why in the world would you over look eminent domain? If we have either a real cause, or crazy leaders who choose to go to that level of war, manufacturing contracts will be forced or domestic plants will simply be taken over.

Health care costs are one thing, what about stock.
If a majority of preferred dividend, and regular stock of a Japanese company is owned by Americans, who does the company really belong to? Conversly, if 65% of GM stock is owned by foriegn investors, who does it really belong to? Who is really making the votes at share holder meetings or pressuring the board of directors?

I want an American manufacturing come back! It will lend stability to our economy. But, can someone tell me, how will buying American cars bring tool shops back to MI?

Workin' 4 Toys
01-08-2008, 04:46 PM
I want an American manufacturing come back! It will lend stability to our economy. But, can someone tell me, how will buying American cars bring tool shops back to MI?
It's not just the cars, but it's a start.
It's getting harder and harder to even LOCATE goods from the U.S.A. Believe me, I have to order alot of stuff made here. I have to search. It takes some effort and going often out of my way. More than the average consumer would do, that is for sure.

Ryan
01-09-2008, 12:51 AM
It's not just the cars, but it's a start.
It's getting harder and harder to even LOCATE goods from the U.S.A. Believe me, I have to order alot of stuff made here. I have to search. It takes some effort and going often out of my way. More than the average consumer would do, that is for sure.

Is it even possible to go all-or-nothing and "Buy American" outside Amish communities? Shoot, the bearings in their buggies probably come from China. I just think it's important to choose arguments/logic that have more backing than emotion. I want a good paying job and I want you to have one too. I want unemployment down to 1% not 5%! But, there are much better ways to cure employment than with auto purchases. I'm sure it doesn't feel like it if you live close to Detroit So, I'll ask questions, because I want to understand and I'll save the rest for my stump speach.

GM struggles, kills their minivan and creates cars people actually want. Ford struggles, has LR and Jag up for bid at a potential net loss of $3.7B. GM is gaining share at Ford's loss too, Toyota is not soaking it all up. Is Toyota responsible for Ford's other bad business behavior?

Step away from the car -

Is "Buy American" valid economic salvation?
A mother in S Korea buys a domestic baby milk formula made in her country rather than my better performing American product simply for nationalism? Wht do you say to her? What do you say to me? If Buy American works, does Buy Korean work for her?

Working in a struggling industry
If I worked for Sam Goody (record/CD store) and same store sales were down 25% yoy and store closures are occurring at 15%/year for 5 yrs what would you recommend I do with my career?

phecksel
01-09-2008, 01:34 PM
Working in a struggling industry
If I worked for Sam Goody (record/CD store) and same store sales were down 25% yoy and store closures are occurring at 15%/year for 5 yrs what would you recommend I do with my career?

Don't work in automotive! Whole music industry failed to provide the product people wanted. Also chose to ignore/fight the whole electronic media concept. Could see that train wreck coming five years ago.

Jim@BAWS
01-09-2008, 02:42 PM
A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India .

Sadly, The End.

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY!!!

phecksel
01-10-2008, 12:58 PM
I've seen that before and it's hilarious and WAY too true. Even funnier {or scarier} I had a very realistic converstation just like that this morning.

You might want to add buying the forest because that's where wood paddles comes from, while Toyota uses carbon fiber. Buying the state of California to control the weather impacting the race, where toyota plans for all weather potential.

Workin' 4 Toys
01-10-2008, 01:05 PM
Is "Buy American" valid economic salvation?
A mother in S Korea buys a domestic baby milk formula made in her country rather than my better performing American product simply for nationalism? Wht do you say to her? What do you say to me? If Buy American works, does Buy Korean work for her?

Working in a struggling industry
If I worked for Sam Goody (record/CD store) and same store sales were down 25% yoy and store closures are occurring at 15%/year for 5 yrs what would you recommend I do with my career?
She should do whatever she thinks is right.

#2- I would think looking into some type of internet sales would work. But I couldn't say, never been into a Sam goody store. Not ever sure what it is.

Ryan
01-10-2008, 01:41 PM
She should do whatever she thinks is right.

#2- I would think looking into some type of internet sales would work. But I couldn't say, never been into a Sam goody store. Not ever sure what it is.

Mom in S.Korea - If my co. lost international sales it would effect our US production, line workers would lose their jobs and if it got bad enough we'd have to look into consolodating and closing whole factories. Thankfully people in other countries choose the best value/$ product and keep buying from us. Now we are opening a new plant in Singapore to meet their demand and protect our margins over shipping from here so that we can remain a profitable and functioning co so that our employees can buy carpet, appliances, homes, and cars from other US co's.

CD store in the mall - two parts: your store is failing and you cannot just go to the store accross the mall because mall retail is struggling accross the board. It's analagous to having a job at Ford or any other industry that is waning. I am in an industry that is not shrinking in $ vol, but is in # jobs as our customers consolidate. There are progressively less jobs in CA, so I moved to OH so I could continue to climb the ladder. My point with the question is that it's hard to move or change industries, and reinvest your career as quick as a day trader would do with stocks. But, you cannot bandaid patch a failing industry or afford to stick around until they just let you go and be left in a ghost town with unemployment at 20%.

Jorski
01-10-2008, 01:41 PM
Trade makes everyone wealthier on average, protectionism makes us all poorer.


FWIW, I have had three Toyota 4 runners, besides oil and tires I never put a dime into any of them. The one time something broke (rear electric window) out of warranty, Toyota fixed it for free.

Currently, I have a German car (BMW) and an American truck (Chev Tahoe LTZ). The BMW is best car to drive that I have ever owned, by a long shot, but then again that is what it was built for. The Chev, is a very nice truck, but it's only 5 months old and the sunroof is already broken. We will see how it does, but early impressions are that the Toyota is simply a better built vehicle.

Chas
01-10-2008, 02:44 PM
Nowadays, don't we put more money into the government coffers via the tax on Gasoline anyway?

Who cares where the vehicle was built - I'm paying close to a hundred bucks per tankful. I bet the gas tax puts more money into this economy than the price of the car/truck.

Workin' 4 Toys
01-11-2008, 12:38 AM
Ryan, thanks for the pep talk. I still don't like toyota.

Do you suggest I buy some Singapore stocks? Or sell?

Ryan
01-11-2008, 11:29 AM
My European growth fund is the best performer in my 401k. If you want a quick rise, look into US and European solar & wind energy companies. A lot of states are doing energy reviews this and next month and seem to be shooting them through the roof.

Workin' 4 Toys
01-11-2008, 11:53 AM
I buy lots of european and chinese companies.

Leroy
01-11-2008, 11:57 AM
Now you confuse me, the most RWB person on here, is this buying American?

I buy lots of european and chinese companies.

Workin' 4 Toys
01-11-2008, 11:57 AM
I don't really. I was just giving Jeff something to quote me on a couple years down the road from now to take out of context again.

I am not so sure about me buying any stock in these air and solar powered companies. But I am interested in the products personally. Someday....

Workin' 4 Toys
01-11-2008, 11:58 AM
Now you confuse me, the most RWB person on here, is this buying American?
Nope, read my last post..... Sorry I type slow...:o

Workin' 4 Toys
01-11-2008, 12:01 PM
And for what it's worth Leroy. I am going to try and change my tune around here. I don't like being bashed for my supporting of US companies. So I am going to try and lighten up.


(Well, except for my signature.)

Leroy
01-11-2008, 03:59 PM
OK, WFT, I'll be back in a second....

Dear Dairy;

Something strange is going on today, there is no sun and the moon was still out at noon today. I saw a three headed goose fly by and my phone rings but there is no one there. Even more strange is WFT is "lightening up" on the buy American cheer.

I'm sure the end of the world is near.

Leroy

Workin' 4 Toys
01-11-2008, 04:35 PM
I said here.
Someone brings those Lexus or toyotos PieceOS around my house, that is another matter.

Ski Bum
01-25-2008, 09:44 PM
FYI all biger cat excavators 324 and up are all built in USA The smaller are built in Belguim or Japan. Still to USA specs. And have plants all over the world.