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View Full Version : Execution, a deterrent or not


gene dobies
03-17-2005, 09:30 AM
Answer yes or no

jsonova99
03-17-2005, 09:34 AM
I would say yes, however I'm probably proven wrong by all of the cases that you hear of.

André
03-17-2005, 09:36 AM
Gene
You go almost crazy when peoples post swimsuits pictures and now you come up with a poll on execution ?
There must be something in the middle...

MasterMason
03-17-2005, 09:36 AM
Under the current laws and the time it takes from conviction to getting executed... Probably not much.

jsonova99
03-17-2005, 09:41 AM
Under the current laws and the time it takes from conviction to getting executed... Probably not much.

That's another good point, you end up sitting for 20 years minimum before they actually carry it out

gene dobies
03-17-2005, 09:41 AM
Gene
You go almost crazy when peoples post swimsuits pictures and now you come up with a poll on execution ?
There must be something in the middle...

Andre, no just curious since someone posted about the Peterson thing.
Myself I don't thinik it is since so many murders are committed.

Mag_Red
03-17-2005, 09:48 AM
Gene
You go almost crazy when peoples post swimsuits pictures and now you come up with a poll on execution ?
There must be something in the middle... :purplaugh :purplaugh :purplaugh Andre, you're killin me!

mitch
03-17-2005, 09:56 AM
What Mag said :D

tex
03-17-2005, 10:00 AM
Andre, no just curious since someone posted about the Peterson thing.
Myself I don't thinik it is since so many murders are committed.
Under that logic, you should rule out jail since so many crimes are commited.

lakes Rick
03-17-2005, 11:54 AM
I personally believe in the Orielly concept.. Hard labor in the deserts of Arizona or the middle of Alaska.... This would be only for the worst of the worst.....Bread and water for eats, a library, bunk, and NOTHING else........ 12 hours a day hard back breaking labor.. Thats a deterrent....

milkmania
03-17-2005, 11:57 AM
If the sentence was carried out swiftly, I would say it's a deterrent....
as it is, I say it's not.


Judge, "how do you find the defendant?"
Juror, "guilty, your Honor"
Judge, "sir, this court finds you guilty of murder, and senttences you to death... you got 45 minutes to get your **** together"

now that would deter someone!.....maybe not all, but some

JEREMY79
03-17-2005, 11:58 AM
lakes Rick,
I will back you on that

jsonova99
03-17-2005, 11:59 AM
If the sentence was carried out swiftly, I would say it's a deterrent....
as it is, I say it's not.


Judge, "how do you find the defendant?"
Juror, "guilty, your Honor"
Judge, "sir, this court finds you guilty of murder, and senttences you to death... you got 45 minutes to get your **** together"

now that would deter someone!.....maybe not all, but some

that would deter me :eek3:

milkmania
03-17-2005, 12:01 PM
Judge, "Bailiff, get that man off my floor and wake him up!, he's got 44 minutes left"

east tx skier
03-17-2005, 12:07 PM
Under that logic, you should rule out jail since so many crimes are commited.

Hey, that wasn't the question. ;)

I think it's a logical statement that the death penalty doesn't deter people from committing crimes that carry a potential death sentence because, people continue to kill in spite of its existence. I don't think jail time is an effective deterent either. I don't necessarily support a blanket ruling out of either of these punishments despite their inability to 100% deter crime. Removing a convicted violent criminal from society means one less criminal for which I have to look over my shoulder.

FrankSchwab
03-17-2005, 12:17 PM
I think that likelihood of punishment is far more or a deterrent than severity of punishment.

These days, DUI has nearly draconian punishments associated with it. Yet, an unheathily large percentage of the drivers on the road at some times are still legally drunk. Why? Because the likelihood of punishment is low. How many people here exceed the speed limit? Why? Mostly because you know that the chance of getting caught is miniscule.

If you knew that your chance of getting caught for committing a crime was, say, 50%, I'd wager that the crime rate would become nearly 0.

Murder may be in a different category, however. I'd like to think that most of them are a result of the deepest human emotions, and not any kind of rational thought process. As a result, they're always going to be with us; though the likelihood of getting caught should certainly deter a significant number of them.

/frank

Professor
03-17-2005, 12:20 PM
Good point Doug!

aprgriggs
03-17-2005, 12:22 PM
If the sentence was carried out swiftly, I would say it's a deterrent....
as it is, I say it's not.


Judge, "how do you find the defendant?"
Juror, "guilty, your Honor"
Judge, "sir, this court finds you guilty of murder, and senttences you to death... you got 45 minutes to get your **** together"

now that would deter someone!.....maybe not all, but some

Also, they should make the laws easier to understand. Kill =death....that might make them think twice.

milkmania
03-17-2005, 12:29 PM
also, I'm not sure if it's called full term or what (that may be a presidential thing)

but if someone is sentenced to 35 years, they should not see light in 2!

east tx skier, I think you may know what the average of time served is...
I've heard some say he'd get 10 years, and be out in 8 months kinda stuff....
to me 10 years is 3650 days!

that would form a deterrent, I would think.

east tx skier
03-17-2005, 12:52 PM
I think, in Texas, a life sentence amounts to about 40 years before someone is eligible for parole. I seem to remember seeing that there's a certain percentage of the sentence that has to be served before a person is eligible (I don't know how they figure it on "life").

aprgriggs
03-17-2005, 12:52 PM
also, I'm not sure if it's called full term or what (that may be a presidential thing)

but if someone is sentenced to 35 years, they should not see light in 2!

east tx skier, I think you may know what the average of time served is...
I've heard some say he'd get 10 years, and be out in 8 months kinda stuff....
to me 10 years is 3650 days!

that would form a deterrent, I would think.


right on..

DanC
03-17-2005, 12:58 PM
Some of you are hitting on it. There is no death penalty in California. Just a different wing of cells and more attention from lawyers and continued notoriety.
However, the three strikes law in California is absolutely a deterent for habitual criminals because it actually results in jail time. My brother the correctional officer (prison guard) at Folsom Prison can tell you EXACTLY what the criminals think of that law.

AirJunky
03-17-2005, 01:28 PM
I seriously doubt anyone about to kill another person takes even a second to think of what would happen if they got caught. And frankly, I have no clue why anyone would rather live in prison than be put to death.
The benefit of putting these people to death is NOT a deterrent but to provide closure for the loss of their victims & to alleviate the public from supporting their sorry a$$ in the system.

east tx skier
03-17-2005, 01:32 PM
I actually am aware of one situation where a person accused of murder purportedly weighed the sentences for aggravated robbery versus murder and was quoted that if he was going to risk 99 years either way, he might as well kill the guy, which is exactly what happened. Unfortunately, they never caught him, hence my use of the word "purportedly." Unbelievable how some people can rationalize such a horrible thing.

jimmer2880
03-17-2005, 01:43 PM
I personally believe in the Orielly concept.. Hard labor in the deserts of Arizona or the middle of Alaska.... This would be only for the worst of the worst.....Bread and water for eats, a library, bunk, and NOTHING else........ 12 hours a day hard back breaking labor.. Thats a deterrent....

I'm with you - as long as Milk's concept is also included. 35 years means 35 years. Period! You don't behave, it's more time added to the 35 years. You behave yourself, that's expected, therefore, it's still 35 years!

DanC
03-17-2005, 02:49 PM
One way or another there are people who should not be allowed loose in society, whether it is life in prison, death, penal colony in Australia or put a wall around New York city.

86PowerSlot190MC
03-17-2005, 02:56 PM
wall around New York city.

You’ve been watching to may movies...................... :rolleyes:

east tx skier
03-17-2005, 03:13 PM
Penal colony, yeah. I used to say, you can't live by our rules, we're putting you on a deserted island surrounded by patrol boats. Let 'em worry about building shelter, hunting food, etc. and committing crimes gets pushed down the list a little.

Leroy
03-17-2005, 03:45 PM
Punishments are always deterents. The problem is there is almost no punishment now. Criminals go in and out, wait forever on death row. Long sentences are reduced to nothing, life in the prison is as good or better than most criminals have it on the outside.

THere was an article yesterday about a hanging in Iran, if you read it that was deterrent. I can't find it again, but it was good.

I also like the isolated prison concept. Maybe we need another Australia, that seems to have worked out ok!

milkmania
03-17-2005, 04:10 PM
Leroy,

yes, I read that article.........

they flogged his @$$ before they hung him!!!:worthy:

Leroy
03-17-2005, 04:55 PM
Also, someone from the crowd broke through and knifed him. Plus they they were throwing stones at him during the whole thing. One of those times where you wish you pay the ax man to make a clean cut.

88 PS190
03-22-2006, 12:20 PM
In my opinion it is a deterant, but humans are so stupid when they commit crimes that they do not realize that they will be caught. And the smart people don't leave enough out there to get the death sentance anyway.

So ideally yes... but i realize that if you aren't forwards thinking it won't stop you.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
03-22-2006, 12:28 PM
Did anyone notice how Gene created a HUGE breech of etiquette and did NOT include an "UMP" option in his poll??? :noface: I was gonna see if anyone else flagged him on it. Lakey must be sleepin at the wheel or somethin'. WAKE UP LAKEY!!! :rant: JR should have caught it too, seeing I am the TRU DAT police, he could reciprocate.

I am not gonna get into that topic, its way to controversial for UMP. Besides, I am still heartbroken that the poll has no "UMP" option ;)

LakePirate
03-22-2006, 12:37 PM
I'm awake...I'm awake.

One must always have a UMP option, something like Yes - No - Will UMP win the CoRRRRoneRRRR election and have to autopsy the body?

On topic - Cook' em. This lethal injection stuff is not a deterrent. Sure you die but there is no real fear put into a criminal. Now watching the lights dim in town when they crank up ol' sparky, that is a deterrent.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
03-22-2006, 01:09 PM
Lakey, you hit on it!!!! Maybe you should dim the lights here on the board when people forget the "UMP" option in their polls here, that might be a reminder for them to include it ;)

Workin' 4 Toys
03-22-2006, 01:34 PM
Yes I do, and we should "SEE" more of them. How about 6:00PM right after dinner...

lakes Rick
03-22-2006, 07:59 PM
One thing that cannot be debated is the fact that the death penalty ( when finally carried out) DEFINATELY prevents this person from EVER carrying out another offense to humanity......

tommcat
03-22-2006, 08:59 PM
i'd have to say that just the threat of jail time is a deterrent. i'm scared to death of the thought of going to jail and that is certainly what keeps me from doing many of the things i'd like to do to people. things which they deserve but wont ever receive because of our liberal society.

flipper
03-22-2006, 09:16 PM
I don't, most of the people that end up on death row don't care about anything including life. Besides, it take so long for them to finally kill them, they are old and have been in jail so long they care even less. I think either while they are waiting, they should make use out of them, make them pay rent in jail so my tax dollars go to better stuff than keeping them happpy and healthy, or just get rid of them faster. Make them take care of all the stuff that we don't want to.

michael freeman
03-22-2006, 09:39 PM
I personally believe in the Orielly concept.. Hard labor in the deserts of Arizona or the middle of Alaska.... This would be only for the worst of the worst.....Bread and water for eats, a library, bunk, and NOTHING else........ 12 hours a day hard back breaking labor.. Thats a deterrent....


I agree. Work is neither cruel nor unusual punishment.

12 hrs a day on bread and water is a bit much, but 40 hours a week on 3 meals a day and a place to sleep is all they need. I think they are required to have a library, but use of it should be a privilege.

erkoehler
03-22-2006, 10:16 PM
NO, not at all....

Leroy
03-22-2006, 10:20 PM
I agree just like sheriff Joe Arpaio! 1200 inmates in tents! This is not $25k/year to take care of prisoners.

http://www.mcso.org/submenu.asp?file=aboutmcso&page=main

I personally believe in the Orielly concept.. Hard labor in the deserts of Arizona or the middle of Alaska.... This would be only for the worst of the worst.....Bread and water for eats, a library, bunk, and NOTHING else........ 12 hours a day hard back breaking labor.. Thats a deterrent....

erkoehler
03-22-2006, 10:40 PM
That sounds good to me....^^^^^^^

DrNautica
03-22-2006, 10:47 PM
I'm not sure if execution is a deterrent, but... it certainly is a preventive measure. As in, the person executed will never commit the act again.

erkoehler
03-23-2006, 12:41 AM
The problem is the cost in actually executing someone.....you can let them live out the duration of their life, and it will still be cheaper :mad:

Leroy
03-23-2006, 01:07 AM
ERk; Not with a piece of rope or some drugs and swift justice.

erkoehler
03-23-2006, 01:17 AM
ERk; Not with a piece of rope or some drugs and swift justice.


Right, cause that happens so often!!! Appeal, Appeal, denied appeal, appeal the denial, placed on death row, appeal the death row sentence, and so on and so forth.....

Brent
03-23-2006, 08:54 AM
....................

gene dobies
03-23-2006, 09:39 AM
Why is it that we have laws against murder and it is ok for the judicial system to murder a person. I thought the idea was that we are in some way supposed to be better or wiser than the criminal and yet in the case of capital punishment we resort to what the criminal did,,, murder. Just throwing it out for discussion. And what about the even slight chance that the prosecution was very good at convincing the jury of guilt when in reality the person was innocent and couldn't afford the convincing attorney to defend him. Now an innocent mans life is taken. I think in this case better the person be put away for life if there could even be one iota (spelling) of a chance of innocence.

Tom023
03-23-2006, 10:10 AM
Call it whatever you want: murder, punishment, justice... Why should the crimminal get better treatment than his/her victim, and continue to be a cost to society? BTW, the definition of murder "the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought."

east tx skier
03-23-2006, 11:06 AM
Tom, just speaking to the monetary cost to society (not considering whether it's all right or wrong), whenever I've heard this come up before, the suggestion has always been that, when all is said and done with the appeals process (automatic in Texas for death penalty cases), it's cheaper to put them in jail for the rest of their lives.

I could be misinformed on the subject.

Ric
03-23-2006, 11:22 AM
Lighten up Gene ;)

jpattigr
03-23-2006, 11:22 AM
The one question in the back of my head is what if they didn't do it!!
We read about people being released regularly with new DNA testing that proves they were incorrectly charged in the first place.
You can not bring them back from the chair, what if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time??
It has happened way more then anyone will admit.

PS I think the Mass Murders, Cop Killers should receive CP.

Ric
03-23-2006, 11:24 AM
The onw question in the back of my head is what if they didn't do it!!
We read about people being released regularly with new DNA testing that proves they were incorrectly charged in the first place.
You can not bring them back from the chair, what if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time??
It has happened way more then anyone wil admit.

PS I think the Mass Murders, Cop Killers should receive CP.

we don't..... have a chair.

east tx skier
03-23-2006, 11:30 AM
The one question in the back of my head is what if they didn't do it!!
We read about people being released regularly with new DNA testing that proves they were incorrectly charged in the first place.
You can not bring them back from the chair, what if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time??
It has happened way more then anyone will admit.

PS I think the Mass Murders, Cop Killers should receive CP.

The Texas "Actual Innocence" (http://www.utexas.edu/law/academics/clinics/innocence/) Project has done a great deal in this realm, not just with regard to death penalty cases.

Ric
03-23-2006, 11:37 AM
PS I am just playing with you guys, I wrestle with the death penalty myself.

eye for an eye?
what about innocence?
thou shalt not kill?
costs of feeding, clothing, airconditioning, giving cable tv and fitness equipment to keep a cold blooded killer alive v. killing him?

Tom023
03-23-2006, 11:53 AM
Tom, just speaking to the monetary cost to society (not considering whether it's all right or wrong), whenever I've heard this come up before, the suggestion has always been that, when all is said and done with the appeals process (automatic in Texas for death penalty cases), it's cheaper to put them in jail for the rest of their lives.

I could be misinformed on the subject.

Eastie,

That's easy to solve, during the sentencing phase, just make the convicted's chair electric. Seriously, I believe everyone should get all the rights afforded to them, so I guess the appeals process is necessary. I wrestle in my mind with the issue of sending an innocent person to their death, but have no issues with it in cases where guilt is absolutely conclusive (e.g., admission).

east tx skier
03-23-2006, 12:26 PM
Appeal directly to the CCA is still automatic.

What's the expression, "...better to set 10 guilty people free than to wrongfully convict one innocent person." It's tough to swallow sometimes depending on what the guilty people were guilty of I suppose.

Ron Grover
03-23-2006, 06:05 PM
For the death penalty to be a deterrent you must have a belief that the criminal believes that they will get caught.

i don't really believe that most criminals has the mental accuity to comprehend they will be caught. In fact most of them I have known actually believe they are too smart to be caught so possible punishment isn't within their realm of reality.

twieder
03-23-2006, 07:31 PM
:rant: Convicted on friday, swing on saturday! Put a gallows in every county court house lawn and use it!!!!!!

This country is so hung up on the cruel and unusual bs it makes me wana puke!

This country used to hang horse thiefs! A car is the modern horse. Wana stop car jackings? Let em swing!

There are atleast 10 countries that chop off a hand if you get cought steeling an apple or anything else trivial.Some put you in prison for life for a DWI!
We have to many laws with no teeth. What about the kid that was raped and killed? To me that is beyond cruel and unusual! Why give the jackoff 3 squares a day, a roof over his head, and some of the comforts of homefor the next 20 yeaers till appeals run out? :twocents:

twieder
03-23-2006, 07:37 PM
My point. How is this right? More time for weed than for takein a life!?! :noface: :uglyhamme

maristarman
03-23-2006, 09:43 PM
PS I am just playing with you guys, I wrestle with the death penalty myself.

eye for an eye?
what about innocence?
thou shalt not kill?
costs of feeding, clothing, airconditioning, giving cable tv and fitness equipment to keep a cold blooded killer alive v. killing him?

So many people get this wrong.

I'll try not to put everyone to sleep.

The Hebrew language used different words for intentional killing and unintentional killing (just like we use killed and murdered)

A more accurate literal translation from Hebrew to Engish is "Do not put anyone to death without cause."

The Hebrew word used was "Ratsach", which is almost always used in the scriptures to refer to intentionally killing someone without cause (which is murder, as opposed to self-defense, for example).

Mosaic law itself listed over 40 crimes that were punishable by the death penalty.

From a Christian perspective, Jesus himself submitted to the earthly authorities and was murdered (because he was innocent) under the "death penalty".

For those of you that fell asleep reading the above.....................

WAKE UP ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !


:D

lakes Rick
03-26-2006, 01:12 PM
The one question in the back of my head is what if they didn't do it!!
We read about people being released regularly with new DNA testing that proves they were incorrectly charged in the first place.
You can not bring them back from the chair, what if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time??
It has happened way more then anyone will admit.

PS I think the Mass Murders, Cop Killers should receive CP.

And most of these guys were put in Prison because of the testimony of one women!!!!!! ( DNA testing proving otherwise)

When DNA proves the women testified wrong, I think SHE should be sent to serve the prison term.....