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ShamrockIV
10-29-2007, 01:37 PM
:confused:
I asked a question in another thread and did not want to get off on a tangent on someone elses thread. I mentioned slalom skiing off the tower and was told it puts way too much stress on the tower. Is this a problem? I have four young daughters ages 8-3 and the tower makes life alot easier with them in the boat. If so is there anything else i should refrain from using tower for? I.E. tubing etc? thanks!!! I know i will get alot of good info from you guys!!!!:confused:

Roonie's
10-29-2007, 01:44 PM
Tubing is not recommended off the tower.

tex
10-29-2007, 01:46 PM
Tubing is not recommended off the tower.
I sky ski, wakeboard, tube, jump, foot, and free ski off my tower. No issues!

Roonie's
10-29-2007, 01:49 PM
My dealer suggested that I don't tube off of tower as it can put a lot of stress on tower points. Also towing boats, parasailing are not recommended from tower.

tex
10-29-2007, 02:06 PM
My dealer suggested that I don't tube off of tower as it can put a lot of stress on tower points. Also towing boats, parasailing are not recommended from tower.
What do you think puts more pressure on your tower, pulling a tube at 40 mph or a 200lb guy pulling out getting ready to throw a railey?

ridesdirt
10-29-2007, 02:21 PM
I always thought the issue with pulling a tube from the tower was saftey. Your pulling point is so high, if the tube catches air off the wake, the wind could easily send it 10 feet or more into the air. I don't want to do it with my kids...

Dawg
10-29-2007, 02:21 PM
I had my tower(Zero Flex) installed by XTP and my guy at the factory advised that the Company discourages anything other than what the tower is designed for (ie; warrantee issues). He did say that the wakeboard places the most stress on the tower. I barefoot and pull my teenagers slalom and kneeboard from the tower with no problems. Sorry I can't give any info on pulling tubes. It is nice to have the back seat area for passengers while pulling skiers.

tex
10-29-2007, 02:29 PM
I always thought the issue with pulling a tube from the tower was saftey. Your pulling point is so high, if the tube catches air off the wake, the wind could easily send it 10 feet or more into the air. I don't want to do it with my kids...
It's never happened with us. I like the tower because I can control the tube better.

Muttley
10-29-2007, 02:30 PM
I found out the hard way with my other boat that tubing off a Skylon, or any high point like a tower is a very bad idea. Tubes can dig in and cause a lot of cantalevered stress. Granted, it wasn't a tower, but the bow cable snapped.

I don't think slaloming would be a problem. I've used the hi pole many times with new skiers. The up lift helps them get out of the water. Serious skiers would probably not benefit as it would screw up your pull across the wake.

That's my opinion, FWIW.

ShamrockIV
10-29-2007, 05:39 PM
Thanks!!!!! i would think that the only prob with tubing is coming out of the hole because that is where all the hard pull is. i was just wondering about slalom because as i stated with four kids i need the room that putting the rope on the tower affords!!!! thanks again!!!

I am shopping for tower now. i think the ND looks the best but the Titan sure seems SOLID!!!

AirJunky
10-29-2007, 05:58 PM
The Titan is the strongest tower made, period.

I've also read that you should never pull a tube from the tower. Personally I think it should have read you should never pull a tube at all, but hey.

The only catastrophic failure of a tower I ever heard of was from pulling a SkySki.... big front flip attempt, underrotated, landed on his back/butt & never let go. Ripped the whole top section clean off the boat...... and it wasn't a Titan.

I doubt there would be any problem pulling kids on skis. I'm sure it's a lot worse pulling a 250 lb grown man out any flip attempt.

88 PS190
10-29-2007, 06:03 PM
You can pull a slalom skier on a tower to learn, it does pull upwards more which could help some people.

But beyond that you don't want the rope pulling you up off your edge so its pointless.

JBaker
10-29-2007, 06:03 PM
I was also told by my dealer and numerous other buddies to never tube off the tower, so I never do it.

As for slaloming with kids that young, I doubt it would be an issue.

My buddy has a Titan tower on a Cobalt 202 cs (the straight inboard they only made in 98-99) and IMO it looks gorgeous.

JohnnyB
10-29-2007, 06:08 PM
Pulling a shortline slalom skier would be awkward....if someone did it, I'd be seriously worried about the stress they put on the tower....

Pulling a novice slalom skier (someone that doesn't edge very hard) probably is not an issue.

I would never pull a tube off the tower....getting tubes moving is a lot of strain.

eyeball_jerry
10-29-2007, 07:17 PM
we have never had issues free skiing or footing off the tower, if you get agrresive with a good to pro level ski, then the tow point is just too high and will cause the boat (or at least mine) to rock and screw up the wake.

We always pull off the tower for tubes, cause i don't like tubbing so i don't mind throwing them over 10 feet up, as long as it isn't a kite tube
:D

swatguy
10-30-2007, 12:01 AM
Pulling newbies and recreation skiers from the tower shouldn't be a problem at all. LIke you said can give them that little pop up.


As for tubing from tower......... Would alomost in 90% of the cases never do it or recommend it. The probelem isn't the constant stress put on by the tube. That is no different then pulling a boarder or skier. Probably less due to the fact of the resistance during a cut from a boarder that is put on, but then again there if yo uare edging properly the most starin is out on alomst directly behind the boat righ when the boarder is hitting the wake. Where it becomes a problem is when you start cracking the whip or snapping the tube when its outside the wake of the boat. That hard snap and pull will reak havoc on your gelcoat and tower feet. NOT A GOOD THING! If you are just pulling little ones around on the tube cruising and what not it shouldn't be a problem, but when you get your buddies or your in-laws back there and want to dump them that's when it becomes bad for the tower.

tex
10-30-2007, 12:03 AM
Pulling newbies and recreation skiers from the tower shouldn't be a problem at all. LIke you said can give them that little pop up.


As for tubing from tower......... Would alomost in 90% of the cases never do it or recommend it. The probelem isn't the constant stress put on by the tube. That is no different then pulling a boarder or skier. Probably less due to the fact of the resistance during a cut from a boarder that is put on, but then again there if yo uare edging properly the most starin is out on alomst directly behind the boat righ when the boarder is hitting the wake. Where it becomes a problem is when you start cracking the whip or snapping the tube when its outside the wake of the boat. That hard snap and pull will reak havoc on your gelcoat and tower feet. NOT A GOOD THING! If you are just pulling little ones around on the tube cruising and what not it shouldn't be a problem, but when you get your buddies or your in-laws back there and want to dump them that's when it becomes bad for the tower.

and you don't think that a wakeboarder pulls harder than a tuber being snapped. You might want to wakeboard a little harder!

Doug G
10-30-2007, 12:17 AM
I sky ski, wakeboard, tube, jump, foot, and free ski off my tower. No issues!

But then there is always the martini variable to factor in to that equation ;)

Archimedes
10-30-2007, 01:26 AM
We always pull the kids on the tube from the tower (06 X-1) and we've had no problems. Our tower moves more when wake boarding than tubing. My kids got sick of the spray from the rope off the pylon and the tube solved that. Regarding air, I don't think you get any more air off off the tower, but I'll be that depends on the tube.

swatguy
10-30-2007, 06:46 AM
Tex,

If you're edging properly there is no way you're generating as much force as cracking the the whip from a tuber at dead stop. There should never be slack in the rope unless you're pulling off pete roses and a couple of other specialized high end tricks. if you are edging and getting slack you need to be checking your wakeboarding skills because they are terrible. The key to the pop is having the most force on the line at the time you hit the wake. It's a gradual progression of force. Hence the term "progressive edge" There is no way that a boarder can generate as much force as a stopped tube with a bunch of slack, a 180lb body in it, and and the boat suddenly yanking it at 24mph. The only way would be evenly remotely possible would be to have the boarder at a dead on his cut back in. Arms will probably give first. I am not doubting that the force isn't as great at the point of release of the wake, but that is pretty much directly behind the boat where the tower is designed to compensate for that force and it is a gradual build up not a sudden impact of all the force at one time at a single point. The point that I am stating that is in question is when you start snapping the rope/cracking the whip. It's the sudden impact of the force from zero to its max in a fraction of a second that does the damage. The tube will blow the boarder away anytime day or night. Trust me I board hard enough and know the facts! It's those that don't have a clue or have facts that scare me. There is a reason tower MFG's say don't. Try this for size. Hold the rope while a boarder starts his progressive edge......now try and hold the rope while the tubed gets snapped. Which do you think will take your fingers off or rip out of your hand?

What do you think puts more pressure on your tower, pulling a tube at 40 mph or a 200lb guy pulling out getting ready to throw a railey? In that cas they are pretty close I would bet, but again its the gradula build up in which the tower was designed for. That a guy doing a railey again isn't loading the line til the absolute last second and again it's a gradual build not a sudden impact. That is the key to sticking them and getting the snap to float away from your body. About how many of those have you tired? Obviously your knowledge(or shall we say lack there of) of how to wakeboard shows with the following statement and you don't think that a wakeboarder pulls harder than a tuber being snapped. You might want to wakeboard a little harder! See no need to follow that with a statement/explanation as there couldn't be any other statement that was further from the truth.

If the tube was just beinig pulled in a straight line I see no problems at all. It's when you start turning and snapping the rope with atube that it creates problems. I would still put my boat up against the tube having more force generated than the boarder when it's snapped. It's simple freshman year physics.
No need to pay tuition for the physics lesson or for the wakeboarding lesson on edging. It's free for teamtalk members.;)

I like the tower because I can control the tube better.
Pretty much sums it up:rolleyes:

H20skeefreek
10-30-2007, 07:35 AM
Tex,

If you're edging properly there is no way you're generating as much force as cracking the the whip from a tuber at dead stop. There should never be slack in the rope unless you're pulling off pete roses and a couple of other specialized high end tricks. if you are edging and getting slack you need to be checking your wakeboarding skills because they are terrible. The key to the pop is having the most force on the line at the time you hit the wake. It's a gradual progression of force. Hence the term "progressive edge" There is no way that a boarder can generate as much force as a stopped tube with a bunch of slack, a 180lb body in it, and and the boat suddenly yanking it at 24mph. The only way would be evenly remotely possible would be to have the boarder at a dead on his cut back in. Arms will probably give first. I am not doubting that the force isn't as great at the point of release of the wake, but that is pretty much directly behind the boat where the tower is designed to compensate for that force and it is a gradual build up not a sudden impact of all the force at one time at a single point. The point that I am stating that is in question is when you start snapping the rope/cracking the whip. It's the sudden impact of the force from zero to its max in a fraction of a second that does the damage. The tube will blow the boarder away anytime day or night. Trust me I board hard enough and know the facts! It's those that don't have a clue or have facts that scare me. There is a reason tower MFG's say don't. Try this for size. Hold the rope while a boarder starts his progressive edge......now try and hold the rope while the tubed gets snapped. Which do you think will take your fingers off or rip out of your hand?

In that cas they are pretty close I would bet, but again its the gradula build up in which the tower was designed for. That a guy doing a railey again isn't loading the line til the absolute last second and again it's a gradual build not a sudden impact. That is the key to sticking them and getting the snap to float away from your body. About how many of those have you tired? Obviously your knowledge(or shall we say lack there of) of how to wakeboard shows with the following statement See no need to follow that with a statement/explanation as there couldn't be any other statement that was further from the truth.

If the tube was just beinig pulled in a straight line I see no problems at all. It's when you start turning and snapping the rope with atube that it creates problems. I would still put my boat up against the tube having more force generated than the boarder when it's snapped. It's simple freshman year physics.
No need to pay tuition for the physics lesson or for the wakeboarding lesson on edging. It's free for teamtalk members.;)


Pretty much sums it up:rolleyes:
Dude, being kinda harsh aren't you? I guess it's hard when you know everything though.

Here's my take: I use a bungi tow rope, which #1 is more fun for the riders and #2 absorbs almost all of the shock from the tubes. I use an extended pylon, and it doesn't flex it AT ALL. But feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

swatguy
10-30-2007, 07:37 AM
Just responding to the comments made is all :) Don't like it when people put other people's lives in danger. Kind of hits a sore spot.

For the record I don't know everything, but in this case I do know what is false
Everyone is entitled to keep doing what they'd like. We live in America. I just hope I am at the other end of the lake.

ShamrockIV
10-30-2007, 08:31 AM
Not sure about lives in Danger. I have been in a little of that in my time. Try making the Kuwait to Bagdad trip in a ring mount behind a 50 cal machine gun. Can u expound on that a little more?
Good idea with a bungi tow rope!!! Thanks!!!
As I previously stated the main tube riders i have are my twin 8 yr olds. And believe me their mother(my wife) will not let me get to wild with them, so the main rie for them is just about 20mph straight up the lake. looks to me like if i pull a adult i can use the rear tow hook.
Also can anyone direct me to some good info on the Titan tower or maybe some pics of one on a MC. There website is not the best i have ever seen. Thanks!!!!

tex
10-30-2007, 08:57 AM
Just responding to the comments made is all :) Don't like it when people put other people's lives in danger. Kind of hits a sore spot.

For the record I don't know everything, but in this case I do know what is false
Everyone is entitled to keep doing what they'd like. We live in America. I just hope I am at the other end of the lake.
OK-If you are putting slack in the rope and then snapping it out while you have kids on, then I don't even want to be on the same lake as you! The comment about it being easier to control a tube on the tower is for the driver not the rider. While I'm not Parks, my background helps me understand the idea of a "progressive cut."

ShamrockIV
10-30-2007, 10:14 AM
I agree with Tex!! if you are letting the rope go slack and popping it with anyone on a tube you definately need some boat driving/safety lessons!!! Much less a beat down from whoever is on the tube!!

bigmac
10-30-2007, 10:56 AM
I don't know about pulling tubes from the tower since I don't have a tower, but I do know that getting slack in the rope while pulling a tube is hard on the tube, hard on the rope attachment point (pylon or towbar), and hard on the kids on the tube. Bad idea.

3event
10-30-2007, 11:02 AM
quite a lively topic...... I got away this entire past season without pulling a tube once, maybe my most proud achievement of the year:D

I think the diff is:
1) When you're in your teens and 20s pulling your buds, trying to kill them. Heck yea, slack in the rope is a key tool for the pummeling. Makes for great video too. I can't even remember the last time I pulled someone like that.

2) Pulling kids, families, and people you care about - maintaining a tight rope, even pull, some mild-medium figure 8s, maybe a circle or 2. No slack.

Definitely 2 different levels of pull !

tex
10-30-2007, 11:06 AM
I grew up being pulled on a tube(airplane tube) with a rope tied to it. We had a 60 mph bassboat and you could whip and wreck people without ever putting slack in the rope. Put the rope on the tower and the driver can really control the whip without slack. I can't beleive I'm giving out tube driving advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

swatguy
10-30-2007, 12:53 PM
Some people's idea of tubing is much different than others wanted to cover all the bases. Would I ever crack the whip.........did it to a couple of buds who challenged me after they had some liquid courage none the less. I do know that getting slack in the rope while pulling a tube is hard on the tube, hard on the rope attachment point (pylon or towbar), and hard on the kids on the tube.Will agree 100%
I will say I think I might have to take a trip on one behind a 60mph bass boat. Would love to try one of those flying tubes behind that, bet you would get airborne quick

Mikey
10-30-2007, 02:17 PM
I can't beleive I'm giving out tube driving advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its alright Tex, you are not alone.:o I just need to figure out how to drive a double up and send the tube sideways right through the middle. Got any tips? :D

I think there are alot more people on this board that pull tubes and just dont tell anyone about it. Farmer Ted caught me pulling a tube on the river last summer so I cant deny it anymore. You wont catch me on one but I do pull my daughter and some of my friends that dont have the required coordination to ski or wakeboard.

And yes I do pull from the tower every time I pull a tube, and have not had a problem.

AirJunky
10-30-2007, 05:55 PM
I will say I think I might have to take a trip on one behind a 60mph bass boat. Would love to try one of those flying tubes behind that, bet you would get airborne quick

Good way to be dead or messed up. Didn't they ban those things?

I think Titan towers can be best seen here (http://www.wakeside.com/page/w/CTGY/titan_wakeboard_towers).
I'll be the first to say that the Titan I & II is about one ugly tower all by itself. But set it up with a bimini, speakers & racks, not only does it look way better, but it's the best performer & it's a really good price.

bigmac
10-30-2007, 06:33 PM
Good way to be dead or messed up. Didn't they ban those things?

I had one. It was a blast.

AirJunky
10-30-2007, 07:12 PM
Yea, I don't doubt it Bigmac. But it sounds like quite a few people have no idea that your not supposed to take them very fast. Looks like the government felt the need to step in & protect us from ourselves (http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml06/06210.html).

So what happened to yours?