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racnatural
10-15-2007, 01:15 AM
Went looking to buy a 2000 x-star today and took a test drive in it. Beautiful boat but as we accelerated the transmission seemed to have some what of a whine or high pitched noise in it. Nothing horrible but kind of annoying. Owner said that it is a standard v-drive noise that can't be avoided. Is this true? Never been in a v-drive, would like to know if this is a normal characteristic of a v-drive transmission.

PendO
10-15-2007, 01:33 AM
I have never heard this "noise" that he is labeling as normal ... but it could be from the prop and not the tranny, I know my boat sounds different with a 3 blade than it does with a 4 (just an example of somethign that could cause a noise) ... I would look at the boat you demoed on the trailer and see how freely the prop spins in the stut ... also, take a look at the tranny fluid, and worst case scenario have a dealer run through the boat before you buy it ...

T Scott
10-15-2007, 08:33 AM
The 2000 X-star I used to own had a rattling sound when idling. If I put any load on it, it went away. My local dealership said a lot of the Hurth transmissions made this sound. That is the only weird sound I ever noticed out of my X-star.

bigmac
10-15-2007, 08:47 AM
The 2000 X-star I used to own had a rattling sound when idling. If I put any load on it, it went away. My local dealership said a lot of the Hurth transmissions made this sound. That is the only weird sound I ever noticed out of my X-star.
That rattling sound was indeed considered to be normal and is reportedly the reason they switched from ATF to 15W40 as the recommended oil in their V-drive transmissions.

I don't have any whine in my Hurth V-drive, but my first thought if I heard such a noise would be the shaft strut bushing or someother abnormality in the shaft alignment.

OTOH, I don't know what transmission they used in a 2000 X-Star. The current V-drive tranny (and the one in my 2004 Maristar) is a Hurth ZF-63 IV, and if that's what was used in 2000 then the description of it being a "typical V-drive whine" is...uh...wrong. I doubt there is such a thing, especially in these later Hurth transmissions.

99xstar
10-15-2007, 11:03 PM
I have a 99 xstar and the whistle from the flame arrestor may be what you are hearing. It annoys me a little while under power. I don't think my transmission makes a whine, but it does rattle when going from idle to fwd.

FrankSchwab
10-16-2007, 11:27 PM
My '98 Maristar had the same kind of high-pitched, almost turbine like whine. It wasn't loud, but you could hear it above the sound of the engine.

I replaced the ATF in it with 10w-30, and the noise went away. Quiet as a ghost now.

/frank

OhioX14
10-17-2007, 12:06 AM
Went looking to buy a 2000 x-star today and took a test drive in it. Beautiful boat but as we accelerated the transmission seemed to have some what of a whine or high pitched noise in it. Nothing horrible but kind of annoying. Owner said that it is a standard v-drive noise that can't be avoided. Is this true? Never been in a v-drive, would like to know if this is a normal characteristic of a v-drive transmission.

If it's a harmonic sounding whine that comes and goes at different RPM's then, as PendO said, it could very well be the prop. The 3-blade that came with our boat had this and it drove me crazy. We changed out the prop with an identical model, but due to different ribs being ground down to balance, the sound went away. It's nice and quiet now.

rkmason
10-20-2007, 12:39 PM
I also have a '98 MariStar 200VRS and I have always heard the trans gear whine I think you are describing. I am running ATF in my trans, so it makes sense that the whine would diminish with a thicker trans lube. I always thought that the trans noise was more noticable because the v-drive drivetrain layout puts the trans forward in the boat under the center rear seat so any trans noise could be more easily heard by the driver/passengers.

Can someone tell me when the Hurth 63-IV trans fluid specification changed to motor oil vs. ATF? It's time for a trans fluid change and I want to move to motor oil if I can.

bigmac
10-20-2007, 12:46 PM
My understanding is that ALL of the ZF63-IV transmissions can use 15W40. There was never a change in the transmission, only in its recommended fluid. You should talk to your dealer to make sure it's OK to switch, but my guess is they won't know..in which case you can call Hurth, or ask them to make the call.

Engine Nut
10-20-2007, 02:19 PM
My understanding is that ALL of the ZF63-IV transmissions can use 15W40. There was never a change in the transmission, only in its recommended fluid. You should talk to your dealer to make sure it's OK to switch, but my guess is they won't know..in which case you can call Hurth, or ask them to make the call.

bigmac is correct. You can use 15W40 in any of the ZF63-IV or in any of the ZF reduction gears. The only ZF transmissions that can't use 15W40 are the in-line 1:1 transmissions, model 450D or 45C. Those units still require Dexron ATF.

CRAIGTHEMAN
10-20-2007, 04:25 PM
i have a 2000 x star and mine tranny doesn't have any sound to it but when you are at full speed than back down to like half way it makes a whine like a supercharger but it is normal and goes away after a few seconds

bigmac
10-20-2007, 04:43 PM
i have a 2000 x star and mine tranny doesn't have any sound to it but when you are at full speed than back down to like half way it makes a whine like a supercharger but it is normal and goes away after a few secondsMine does that too, but it's the prop. Goes away if I switch back from my CNC'd 847 to the cast OJ that came with the boat.

brat
10-20-2007, 04:49 PM
Went looking to buy a 2000 x-star today and took a test drive in it. Beautiful boat but as we accelerated the transmission seemed to have some what of a whine or high pitched noise in it. Nothing horrible but kind of annoying. Owner said that it is a standard v-drive noise that can't be avoided. Is this true? Never been in a v-drive, would like to know if this is a normal characteristic of a v-drive transmission.


I've only been in a couple of v-drives, but they had the same type noise that you indicated. I was told likewise that the sound is indigenous to the v-drive.

Chas
10-20-2007, 04:50 PM
I have been around high performance V drive boats - drag racing - and they all had gear whine. I think it was because they used straight-cut gears. You could open the end and change gears on some of them, for different ratios according to conditions. And they had a tach drive right off the end as well.

But I would sure think that they would use the quieter helical cut gears on a pleasure boat. I know I sure wouldn't want to listen to that all day.

I only say this because if your PO is used to the racket from the high-perf boats, he may not be trying to deceive, he may be going off experience from another boating realm.

As you see from the response of other owners, MC and similar boats don't seem to have the whine.

rkmason
10-20-2007, 07:02 PM
My understanding is that ALL of the ZF63-IV transmissions can use 15W40. There was never a change in the transmission, only in its recommended fluid. You should talk to your dealer to make sure it's OK to switch, but my guess is they won't know..in which case you can call Hurth, or ask them to make the call.

This is a link to a current ZF Marine document "TE-ML 04" that lists the types of lubricants specified for their transmissions. If I read this correctly it specifies lube class 04D (ATF) as the lube for the HSW 630 type transmission (HSW 630 is the old name for ZF 63 type transmissions)
http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/Support/index.cfm?PID=5

bigmac
10-20-2007, 08:36 PM
This is a link to a current ZF Marine document "TE-ML 04" that lists the types of lubricants specified for their transmissions. If I read this correctly it specifies lube class 04D (ATF) as the lube for the HSW 630 type transmission (HSW 630 is the old name for ZF 63 type transmissions)
http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/Support/index.cfm?PID=5

Boy, that's gonna be worrisome to all those V-drive owners since 2003 whose trannies are filled with 15W40 from the factory. Not to mention the confusion from the fact that both MasterCraft and Indmar, in their owner's manuals since 2003, spec 15W40 for all ZF Hurth gear reduction transmissions.

:)

Engine Nut
10-20-2007, 09:37 PM
This is a link to a current ZF Marine document "TE-ML 04" that lists the types of lubricants specified for their transmissions. If I read this correctly it specifies lube class 04D (ATF) as the lube for the HSW 630 type transmission (HSW 630 is the old name for ZF 63 type transmissions)
http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/Support/index.cfm?PID=5

Trust me, ZF knows we are putting 15W40 in the transmissions even though their manuals and other information do not call for it. As bigmac said we have using it for a number of years with excellent results.

rkmason
10-21-2007, 12:07 PM
OK, guess I can't argue with success. That just leaves me confused as to what lube I should use in a ZF63-IV trans that has had nothing but ATF in it from new. Seems reasonable to run ATF in these transmissions since they use hydraulic clutch packs just a like an automatic car transmission. Maybe MasterCraft and Indmar started specifying heavier motor oil due to customer complaints about the very thing that started this thread, v-drive gear noise?

bigmac
10-21-2007, 12:43 PM
OK, guess I can't argue with success. That just leaves me confused as to what lube I should use in a ZF63-IV trans that has had nothing but ATF in it from new. Seems reasonable to run ATF in these transmissions since they use hydraulic clutch packs just a like an automatic car transmission. Maybe MasterCraft and Indmar started specifying heavier motor oil due to customer complaints about the very thing that started this thread, v-drive gear noise?

They changed the oil recommendations because of complaints about rattling at idle, nothing to do with the OP's original question in this thread -- whine.

In your transmission, you can use either. If you're happy with the way your transmission works, leave it alone. If you want to switch, suck out as much ATF as you can and refill with 15W40 CI-4/SL diesel oil (same as what you're supposed to be using in your engine). If it were me, I'd change that oil again after running it an hour or two.

The use of ATF is about torque converters, not clutch packs. Your transmission doesn't have a torque converter.

rkmason
10-21-2007, 04:19 PM
From the other responses in this thread it sounds like a side effect of using motor oil in the trans is reduction or elimination of gear whine. Personally I don't mind the mild whine my trans makes at speed. I have never noticed any rattling noises at idle.

ATF is the lifeblood of every function in an automotive automatic transmission including torque converter operation and providing hydraulic power controlled thru the valve body to operate the band and multi-plate clutches that do all the gear shifting. And it lubricates all the moving parts. The ZF63-IV has no torque converter, but uses the same type of hydraulically-operated muti-plate clutches to do the forward and reverse gear enagagement, so it is exactly like an automotive automatic transmission in that sense. It makes sense to me to use ATF.

bigmac
10-21-2007, 04:58 PM
It makes sense to me to use ATF.

Then that's what you should use.

I hope you'll understand if the rest of us have more confidence in Indmar's recommendations than in yours and don't share your misgivings. No offense meant.

rkmason
10-21-2007, 05:43 PM
No offense taken. This forum is for respectfull discussion of topics like this and that's what we have been doing. I learned something I did not know about changes in the trans lube specified and got some insight into the reasons for the change. It's all good stuff.

KHall
12-28-2007, 07:17 PM
Wonder why the direct drive trans needs atf since there is no convertor?

TMCNo1
12-28-2007, 09:29 PM
Wonder why the direct drive trans needs atf since there is no convertor?

I'll just keep running ATF in my old BW tranny, cause I like the sound the engine makes makes when it goes into passing gear!:rolleyes:

jdhunt0
09-14-2008, 09:54 PM
I have never heard this "noise" that he is labeling as normal ... but it could be from the prop and not the tranny, I know my boat sounds different with a 3 blade than it does with a 4 (just an example of somethign that could cause a noise) ... I would look at the boat you demoed on the trailer and see how freely the prop spins in the stut ... also, take a look at the tranny fluid, and worst case scenario have a dealer run through the boat before you buy it ...

How "free" should the prop be?

bmorgan4
04-12-2009, 04:43 PM
Hey Guys. I am in the process of purchasing a 2001 x30 from a dealer and heard a clicking noise as described above when in idle. One you got out of idle the noise went away, somehow correcting itself possibly by alignment from the high rpms. THe dealer said this was normal for a V-drive, and I said no it isn't. I have ridden in V drive boats that did not have this rattling noise, so they took and back and think that the flex plate is worn out. They are going to replace it and see if the noise decreases. They recommended that a higher viscosity oil be used as well in these boats to make them quiter. I would appreciate and input on possible problems with this boat before I purchase. Is there any way I can check it out better? I assume if the noise goes away the problem is fixed, but I want to assume as little as possible. Also, Could someone recommend what oil to use as a replacement and where to buy it and how much I will need.

I appreciate any help here, want to make sure I start my mastercraft journey on the right foot!

Look forward to suggestions.

XX-Law
04-30-2009, 10:53 AM
My 2000 X-Star V-drive does the same thing. I was advised by a Mastercraft mechanic that Mastercraft recommends to replace the transmission fluid with 5W40 and make sure to do it a couple of times so that you get as much of the transmission fluid as possible out of it so that the two don't mix. You can buy the oil at your mastercraft dealer of pretty much any boating store, just make sure you get the oil with the right SAE rating recommended by Mastercraft. I have not decided whether to do this or not yet on my boat because I was also told by the Mastercraft mechanic that the louder noise isn't hurting anything that quieting it with the oil just makes people feel better about it. My theory was why put in the wrong type of fluid if it isn't going to help mechanically? It seems to click more as the boat warms up for me. The Mastercraft mechanic told me that some boats in that year range happen to be louder than others. This is the first Mastercraft I have heard it on as well, but I have seen other posts on the internet where people are told this is normal as well.

I was told by a Mastercraft mechanic that when my engine idles and makes a louder noise from time to time then that is the damper plate, but another Mastercraft mechanic told me the clickin noise was bad springs on the damper plate so I am not sure which it is.

The local Mastercraft dealer does not return phone calls and has yet to provide a quote to replace it so I am thinking about attempting to do it myself to see what the results are. It is about a 1 day job.


Hey Guys. I am in the process of purchasing a 2001 x30 from a dealer and heard a clicking noise as described above when in idle. One you got out of idle the noise went away, somehow correcting itself possibly by alignment from the high rpms. THe dealer said this was normal for a V-drive, and I said no it isn't. I have ridden in V drive boats that did not have this rattling noise, so they took and back and think that the flex plate is worn out. They are going to replace it and see if the noise decreases. They recommended that a higher viscosity oil be used as well in these boats to make them quiter. I would appreciate and input on possible problems with this boat before I purchase. Is there any way I can check it out better? I assume if the noise goes away the problem is fixed, but I want to assume as little as possible. Also, Could someone recommend what oil to use as a replacement and where to buy it and how much I will need.

I appreciate any help here, want to make sure I start my mastercraft journey on the right foot!

Look forward to suggestions.

bigmac
04-30-2009, 01:47 PM
My 2000 X-Star V-drive does the same thing. I was advised by a Mastercraft mechanic that Mastercraft recommends to replace the transmission fluid with 5W40 and make sure to do it a couple of times so that you get as much of the transmission fluid as possible out of it so that the two don't mix. You can buy the oil at your mastercraft dealer of pretty much any boating store, just make sure you get the oil with the right SAE rating recommended by Mastercraft. I have not decided whether to do this or not yet on my boat because I was also told by the Mastercraft mechanic that the louder noise isn't hurting anything that quieting it with the oil just makes people feel better about it. My theory was why put in the wrong type of fluid if it isn't going to help mechanically? It seems to click more as the boat warms up for me. The Mastercraft mechanic told me that some boats in that year range happen to be louder than others. This is the first Mastercraft I have heard it on as well, but I have seen other posts on the internet where people are told this is normal as well.




It's true that using 15W40 in the later model gear reduction transmissions is a cosmetic issue, just to eliminate the rattle. It's not the "wrong" type of fluid, it's just different. Either ATF or 15W40 will work just fine, with no performance or longevity issues. Indmar says so, ZF Hurth says so. My 2004 came with 15W40 in the tranny. Good enough for me. Works fine.

The specific oil for the transmission is the same oil that Indmar recommends for their engines -- 15W40 that meets API service classification CI-4/SL or CI-4Plus. This is a diesel oil, although Pennzoil also labels their version "Pennzoil Marine" (same oil as Pennzoil Long Life Heavy Duty and Pennzoil Diesel). Lots of other brands market this oil. One brand is as good as another as long as it meets the appropriate service classification requirements.

bigmac
04-30-2009, 01:51 PM
Hey Guys. I am in the process of purchasing a 2001 x30 from a dealer and heard a clicking noise as described above when in idle. One you got out of idle the noise went away, somehow correcting itself possibly by alignment from the high rpms. THe dealer said this was normal for a V-drive, and I said no it isn't. I have ridden in V drive boats that did not have this rattling noise, so they took and back and think that the flex plate is worn out. They are going to replace it and see if the noise decreases. They recommended that a higher viscosity oil be used as well in these boats to make them quiter. I would appreciate and input on possible problems with this boat before I purchase. Is there any way I can check it out better? I assume if the noise goes away the problem is fixed, but I want to assume as little as possible. Also, Could someone recommend what oil to use as a replacement and where to buy it and how much I will need.

I appreciate any help here, want to make sure I start my mastercraft journey on the right foot!

Look forward to suggestions.Yes, I would say that rattling at idle in a 2001 MasterCraft V-drive with a ZF Hurth gear reduction transmissionsis is normal.