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pflcjl
10-14-2007, 07:00 AM
Here is a general question for you oil experts.

I winterize my MC197 myself. I have always changed the oil in the fall before storing the boat. I use Amzoil synthetic 15-40.

So, I bring my 4 stroke sea doo to the service man and he winterizes and charges me $100. I ask if he changed the oil and filter. He tells me that he always changes the oil in the spring during the spring service.
I tell him I think it's better for clean oil to be in the engine during storage and he tells me that why would you want the new oil getting condensation, etc. He also says that Sea Doo recommends oil change in the spring as well.

I think I'm getting a line and just a reason to come back for another billing in the spring.

Any comments??

TMCNo1
10-14-2007, 07:47 AM
Ask Bigmac, I think he works at Jiffy Lube!http://www.gottadeal.com/forums/images/smilies/sidesplit.gif

KHall
10-14-2007, 09:06 AM
It is recomended to chage the oil before winter to remove any acids from engine operation. We are also supposed to change in spring to
eliminate the moisture.

I change before winterization. Acid eats things and a little moisture will bake out upon running.

bigmac
10-14-2007, 09:47 AM
It is recomended to chage the oil before winter to remove any acids from engine operation. We are also supposed to change in spring to
eliminate the moisture.

I change before winterization. Acid eats things and a little moisture will bake out upon running.


That's how we do it at Jiffy Lube..;)

Anyway, SeaDoo recommends changing the engine oil and filter when the machine is being put up for storage, not in the spring - for the reaons KHall mentioned. Condensation could occur over the winter, but that's going to happen no matter when you change the oil. Protection from rust caused by condensation is what fogging the engine is all about. Any water that does condense in the oil pan will boil off PDQ when the engine is started. IMHO, an oil change in both fall and spring is unnecessary.

SeaDoo Service Bulletin - storage (http://www.sea-doo.net/pdf/2006-StorageProcedure4TEC.pdf)

I don't think there should be any "spring service". Winterization should have the vehicle set up so that all you have to do in the spring is put the thing in the water and go.

Leroy
10-14-2007, 10:44 AM
Where do the acids come from? I can understand soot (carbon), glycol, water and gas as pollutants.

pilot02
10-14-2007, 10:46 AM
Blowby past the rings as part of the combustion process which includes unburnt fuel as well. Nothing's 100% efficient... The unburnt fuel removes the oil coating from internal parts which allows rust/oxidation to occur due to the lack of a protective surface and the addition of moisture in the mix.

mitch
10-14-2007, 11:17 AM
What the he(( do they do for a 100 bucks? I don't own one of those stupid things:) , but I'm thinking grab the manual and 'winterize' it yourself. Can't be too hard. Ya, I'm a little sour, the frieking Sox lost

I would not want that old oil sitting in my motor all winter, always change it in the fall. Run in after the oil change w/ Stabile in the gas, fog it, drain any water and you're done or something like that. I'm sure the manual covers it.


Here is a general question for you oil experts.

I winterize my MC197 myself. I have always changed the oil in the fall before storing the boat. I use Amzoil synthetic 15-40.

So, I bring my 4 stroke sea doo to the service man and he winterizes and charges me $100. I ask if he changed the oil and filter. He tells me that he always changes the oil in the spring during the spring service.
I tell him I think it's better for clean oil to be in the engine during storage and he tells me that why would you want the new oil getting condensation, etc. He also says that Sea Doo recommends oil change in the spring as well.

I think I'm getting a line and just a reason to come back for another billing in the spring.

Any comments??

TMCNo1
10-14-2007, 11:45 AM
That's how we do it at Jiffy Lube..;)

:uglyhamme I'm glad you got a sense of humor, made my day!

bigmac
10-14-2007, 12:08 PM
Where do the acids come from? I can understand soot (carbon), glycol, water and gas as pollutants.Oil undergoes oxidation as part of the ongoing combustion process and those oxidation products, mostly acids and peroxides, will accumulate along with soot. The primary means of preventing that for decades was the addition of detergents. They don't prevent oxidation, they only keep those products in suspension to prevent accumulation on engine parts (sludge, varnish, etc). With the advent of catalytic refining ("hydrocracking") instead of the old solvent refining technology, the base oils are substantially more resistant to oxidation and that's one of the reasons we've seen extended drain intervals in engines allowed by the auto mfgrs over the last few year. PAO-based oil (synthetics) aren't really any more resistant to oxidation than mineral oils, nor to soot and therefore acid accumulation. That is a rather debatable issue, but even Amsoil bases its claims of superiority mostly on shear stability and lubricity rather than oxidation resistance. That oxidation and subsequent soot and acid accumulation is the reason that auto mfgrs still don't allow extended drain intervals even if synthetic oils are used, and why synthetic oil mfgrs still have to use detergent additives in their products.

At least, that's how we do it at Jiffy Lube...;)

vogelm1
10-14-2007, 08:16 PM
I change oil in the fall during winterization to remove all the old contaminated/acidified oil, just like you should. But how many folks run the engine after that to circulate all the new, clean oil? My guess is it does no good to refill the crankcase with fresh oil and then just put it away for winter. How will it get into the main bearings and up into the heads? This tells me there's still old oil in the critical parts where it can still do harm. Just a thought to wing out there...:confused:

Slinkyredfoot
10-14-2007, 09:32 PM
[QUOTE=pflcjl]Here is a general question for you oil experts.

I winterize my MC197 myself. I have always changed the oil in the fall before storing the boat. I use Amzoil synthetic 15-40.

So, I bring my 4 stroke sea doo to the service man and he winterizes and charges me $100. I ask if he changed the oil and filter. He tells me that he always changes the oil in the spring during the spring service.
I tell him I think it's better for clean oil to be in the engine during storage and he tells me that why would you want the new oil getting condensation, etc. He also says that Sea Doo recommends oil change in the spring as well.

I think I'm getting a line and just a reason to come back for another billing in the spring.


This is funny we had this same conversation today..I always changed oil in the spring,, but this good friend who is trusted, explained to me that if the old oil sits all winter it creates some kind of acids a crud that float to the top of the crankcase....

seemed very logical to me so I, for the first time, changed my oil today instead of spring, heck I don;t know who to believe anymore....

Jesus_Freak
10-15-2007, 02:12 AM
Oil undergoes oxidation as part of the ongoing combustion process and those oxidation products, mostly acids and peroxides, will accumulate along with soot. The primary means of preventing that for decades was the addition of detergents. They don't prevent oxidation, they only keep those products in suspension to prevent accumulation on engine parts (sludge, varnish, etc). With the advent of catalytic refining ("hydrocracking") instead of the old solvent refining technology, the base oils are substantially more resistant to oxidation and that's one of the reasons we've seen extended drain intervals in engines allowed by the auto mfgrs over the last few year. PAO-based oil (synthetics) aren't really any more resistant to oxidation than mineral oils, nor to soot and therefore acid accumulation. That is a rather debatable issue, but even Amsoil bases its claims of superiority mostly on shear stability and lubricity rather than oxidation resistance. That oxidation and subsequent soot and acid accumulation is the reason that auto mfgrs still don't allow extended drain intervals even if synthetic oils are used, and why synthetic oil mfgrs still have to use detergent additives in their products.

At least, that's how we do it at Jiffy Lube...;)

Yep, throw some oxygen at a hydrocarbon at high temperatures, and we get aromatics, acids, etc. As always, your oil lessons are excellent. I bet your Jiffy Lube customers just kind of glaze over when you start this discourse. Do they still tip you?

bigmac
10-15-2007, 07:56 AM
I bet your Jiffy Lube customers just kind of glaze over when you start this discourse. Do they still tip you?I keep teaching until they do, but I've found that they often go beyond glazed eyes to unconsciousness by the time I get to polymer chemistry.

Seriously though...are we supposed to tip the Jiffy Lube guy?:o

TMCNo1
10-15-2007, 08:49 AM
I keep teaching until they do, but I've found that they often go beyond glazed eyes to unconsciousness by the time I get to polymer chemistry.

Seriously though...are we supposed to tip the Jiffy Lube guy?:o

Do you still offer the complmentary Coloscopy when a customer gets all 6 punches on his Oil Change Card?:rolleyes:

bigmac
10-15-2007, 09:10 AM
Do you still offer the complmentary Coloscopy when a customer gets all 6 punches on his Oil Change Card?:rolleyes:Y'know...it's 8:08 Monday morning, I've done four colonoscopies and not a single oil change. It's a problem because there's a lot more money in oil changes than in colonoscopies.

trickskier
10-15-2007, 09:14 AM
Y'know...it's 8:08 Monday morning, I've done four colonoscopies and not a single oil change. It's a problem because there's a lot more money in oil changes than in colonoscopies.
WOW!!! What a way to start the Day/Week off.................Personally, I think I would rather change oil................:rolleyes:

TMCNo1
10-15-2007, 09:16 AM
Y'know...it's 8:08 Monday morning, I've done four colonoscopies and not a single oil change. It's a problem because there's a lot more money in oil changes than in colonoscopies.


I'm speechless!:uglyhamme

bigmac
10-15-2007, 09:25 AM
Rather than putting an endoscopy suite in at Jiffy Lube, I wonder if it wouldn't be more cost-effective to put a Jiffy Lube in the ambulance bays at the hospital.

Frankly, I think I'd rather have the Starbuck's franchise.

TMCNo1
10-15-2007, 12:59 PM
Rather than putting an endoscopy suite in at Jiffy Lube, I wonder if it wouldn't be more cost-effective to put a Jiffy Lube in the ambulance bays at the hospital.

Frankly, I think I'd rather have the Starbuck's franchise.

Lube'um, look in'um and a Cappichino to go!

spolleypt
10-19-2007, 12:00 PM
OK, I've fogged my motor for the last three years without this happening. Yesterday I fogged my motor, shut it down, sprayed oil in the plugs and put the plugs back in.... Came home three hours later to a 4" diameter puddle under the prop of greyish greasy viscous liquid. Is this from the fogging oil? Should I be concerned? Do I need to remove prop and re grease??? Do I bring it to the shop?
Thanks
Steve

BX3
10-19-2007, 01:26 PM
I agree with vogelm1. I always take the boat for one last quick blast 10-15min to circulate the new oil through the filter and all bearings etc... This also allows the fuel stabilizers to work through the injectors etc... I then top up the transmission fluid to the top. Drain the water, flush with anti-freeze(car type) and teflon spray some exposed moving parts such as thottle linkage assembly and associated components including propeller shaft,propeller and tracking fins. They still look brand new on a 99' boat. Pull speedo tubes and blow out any water if present and leave off from MDC box. Grease rudder shaft and steering linkage points. Clean out strainer for heat exchanger for tranny cooler. That should cover the mechanical side. Note also I replaced all petcock motor drains with full revealling ball valves to allow for good flushing of risers/water jackets.

Of note this boat has undergone now 8 winters in below -30 conditions for extended periods here in northern Ontario,Canada.

Still skiing right now though. i hate to give in to old man winter. Its a long wait for spring!