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Maristar210
10-09-2007, 11:10 AM
Please save the sarcasm in this thread if you don't mind. Thank you.


I value the readers of this forum and I need some fatherly advice.

I'll try and be brief.

19 year old daughter buys POS Kia that nickels and dimes dad.
Dad gets tired of this and in May of 2005 leases Honda Civic for 19 Y.O. Daughter. Dad states and daughter agrees that Dad will pay for car as long as daughter is in school. Once Daughter gets job, daughter pays for car. In April of 2007 Daughter gets job after graduation at the age of 21. Dad reiterates need for daughter to pay for car and insurance as agreed, daughter agrees again. Dad reminds daughter of agreement and for six months dad gets excuse after excuse but no money.

Dad's pi$$ed now and daughter knows it but states she still can't afford to pay for the car. Mathmatical conclusions indicate she certainly can afford to pay for car and dad feels like she is taking advantage of him.

Car is in dads name and dads thinking of going to get car from daughter who lives with sl_ut mother. Dads current wife thinks dads an a-hole for considering it but dad wonders if that is the only way daughter will learn responsibility.

Serious responses appreciated:

betsy&david Harrison
10-09-2007, 11:14 AM
Get the car and put it up for sale. And that is a serious response from me. I am on your side. I am sick and tired of kids that are old enough mooching off their parents.

dmayer84
10-09-2007, 11:15 AM
I had to start paying for my car and my own insurance as soon as I got a job out of college. If she doesn't pay for it I would take it away. Maybe let her know one final date that she has to start paying, and if there is no money by that date you will pick up the car.

tex
10-09-2007, 11:16 AM
Sounds like you have it figured out. The only other thing I would suggest is calmly speak with her and the sl ut of a mother. Draw up a contract that puts a very quick exit date of you paying for the car. Have her pay ins and you pay for the car or the other way around to get her ready for full responsibility. She is of the age to take care of herself. What kind of job does she have?

Roonie's
10-09-2007, 11:16 AM
I would warn her that she has one more month (or one payment) to comply with said agreement then you will be taking back the car. If in one month still no money then take it back. Nothing like lighting a little fire under someone to produce results.

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 11:17 AM
I should clarify:

It's a leased vehicle. The lease is up in May of '08 at which time she will have to turn it in. I would like her to make the lease payments until then....

JohnE
10-09-2007, 11:18 AM
Taking the car back will go a long way towards teaching your daughter responsibility. The value of the lesson will probably not be seen for some time, though. Easier said than done, though - I don't have kids.

betsy&david Harrison
10-09-2007, 11:18 AM
Don't think I would give her a time frame. Sounds like there is a lot of animosity going on and the car could be sabatouged(sp?) prior to the pick up.

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 11:19 AM
I would warn her that she has one more month (or one payment) to comply with said agreement then you will be taking back the car. If in one month still no money then take it back. Nothing like lighting a little fire under someone to produce results.


I have given her a drop dead date of September 15th and explained I wont be making the payment after such date.

Keep em coming........

betsy&david Harrison
10-09-2007, 11:20 AM
So, if she doesn't make the payment the car will be repo'd anyway...right?

jeverett
10-09-2007, 11:21 AM
Maristar:
This is now becoming a problem with the next generation of kids. Just as if your daughter would have leased the car herself you are the bank, and the bank would not given her the care payment free for 2 years. She must pay or give you back the car. The problem is that your current wife is right, there is no way for you to do the right thing and come out ahead in this situation. In the long run your daughter will thank you for giving her a lesson in adult responsability, in the sort term you will not be a hero for doing so. You held up your end of the deal she needs to hold up hers.

dpolen
10-09-2007, 11:28 AM
Maybe you can use this as an opportunity to help your daughter work out a budget, try to put a good financial plan in place and even save a few bucks. Compounded interest is a great thing for big toys like MC's down the road. I know when I was just out of school, I didn't use a budget, but spent every dime I could on "stuff".

milkmania
10-09-2007, 11:30 AM
I face a similar situation.

My son graduated high school valedictorian in 2004.
I bought him a brand new 04 Dodge Ram truck.
I used a CD to secure the entire loan with the stipulation that he'd pay back $150.00 a month into the CD....... wouldn't even meet ammoritization!
But it would secure that my 8 year old daughter would have money back into that CD by the time she turned 16. And I had a 6 year old son that was going to be needing a vehicle.

Long story short:
This little venture has created extreme hostility in our family... If I had it to do over again, I would not!

Kicker:
My wife uses my daughter's disability income from me to make his truck payment!!!!!

Summary:
So, if he'd been paying $150.00 a month, and my daughter was saving $150.00 a month.... total $300.00 a month over 8 years = $28,800.00 + interest!
Great down payment and money left over for my youngest son to get into a vehicle.

sarcasm------------> welcome to the life of Parenting:rolleyes:

Sodar
10-09-2007, 11:32 AM
Dayum youngsters... they do not know responsibilty if it bit them in the arse!!

I know a few of my friends who sound very much like your daughter, Steve. My best buddy is a great guy and makes a great wage that can entirely pay for his truck and much more.... however if he sees something he wants or feels like taking a chick out to a $200 dinner, he knows that his dad has his back, since his dad co-signed the loan. I applaud you for stepping up. It makes me sick to watch my friend be so lax with money.

This weekend, I let him use my storage unit out at the river, because I brought my boat home for the month to have some warranty issues handled and to detail the boat. Well, before my friend put his boat in there, we discussed that it would be $110 for the month. Immediately following him dropping his boat off, I told him that I will be waiting for his money. From the other room his dad says "Good Luck! I have not seen a truck payment from him in 3 months!" I felt like turning around to his dad and saying 'you idiot! Make him pay up or sell the truck!'

I think, too many people put the irresponsibilty blame on kids, but I also think it is the parents fault. If parents would treat the situation like you, then kids would learn responsibilty real quick.

Leroy
10-09-2007, 11:32 AM
If you want to be hard Steve, can you transfer the lease to her and then it is between her and the leaser? Same for insurance, let her get it in her name.

The what seems right to me says, you started out the lease in your name knowing how long it was and you are responsible. If she is working and just starting out, why not pay the lease through May and that is the end. What is the lease? Less than $200/month, so $2k more? In the end you want her to do well and succeed and be a great person. Stand tall, think of your daughter, set the timelines and stick to them.

Our 19 yr old son at IU went through ~$1k in two months. We shut down all of the bank accounts and now send him $20/week in the mail every Wednesday. Funny thing is he seems to like this better and has said it's ok. He is using his meal ticket like he should have been instead or ordering pizza every night.

endl
10-09-2007, 11:37 AM
Couple questions? Is she over her miles on the lease? Will she be? How much do you stand to loose by not taking control of the car between now and May 08?

If you take it now you will still make the payment between now and May 08. You will teach her a lesson and be the bad guy.......What if you manage the situation between now and May 8 the best you can and then May 08 lease is over car has to go back and she has got to step up and help herself. Lesson still learned. Maybe you will get some money betwwn now and then and maybe you can resolve some of the issues.

I hear stories from my buddies like this all day. I dont envy you. Good luck.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 11:40 AM
While I agree with (in principle) with what others have said here IMHO the lesson is long since lost.
(Sorry if I piss you off here but you asked)...What daughter has learned is that dad will not follow through and that the last 6 months of threats/demands was hollow, so now it would appear that your 15th deadline is yet another in the string and if you do take it what changed, “why did dad enforce this one”? The message is way confusing...
1st Month: I'm serious I'll stop paying for it
2nd month: I'm very serious I'm going to stop paying for it
3rd month: I'm really very serious this time
4th month: I'm not even kidding this time, I want paid
5th month: I couldn’t be more serious this time
6th month: I'm so serious this time the word serious doesn’t cover it
7th month: Car disappears?????? HUH?

I would imagine that your daughter knows you can’t stop paying for it or it will ruin your credit...there are no upsides in this story I can see. No matter what you do you lose it is only a matter of degrees and the only lesson that is learned is that consequences have no predictability.

An old line goes..."Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". I don't know your relationship with your daughter but I would stop asking for it...it isn’t going to happen and I wouldn’t make any more hollow threats, make the payment until it must be turned in and then NEVER DO IT AGAIN.

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 11:41 AM
So, if she doesn't make the payment the car will be repo'd anyway...right?


Car's in my name love. Can't let that happen. :(

Willski
10-09-2007, 11:44 AM
MYMC has a point. Since you are the co-signer, your credit is also at stake.

There is no easy way out of this one. Taking it away will likely cause more animosity and problems now.

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 11:45 AM
Couple questions? Is she over her miles on the lease? Will she be? How much do you stand to loose by not taking control of the car between now and May 08?

If you take it now you will still make the payment between now and May 08. You will teach her a lesson and be the bad guy.......What if you manage the situation between now and May 8 the best you can and then May 08 lease is over car has to go back and she has got to step up and help herself. Lesson still learned. Maybe you will get some money betwwn now and then and maybe you can resolve some of the issues.

I hear stories from my buddies like this all day. I dont envy you. Good luck.


Endl,

This too is an issue. She is 18000 miles over right now and still has 8 months to go :(

MYMC
10-09-2007, 11:47 AM
Endl,

This too is an issue. She is 18000 miles over right now and still has 8 months to go :(
Buy the lease out and give her the car...take this into account when updating your will and explain it fully to her that she took her share early...then move on, life is way to short. Oh, and DON'T DO IT AGAIN!

milkmania
10-09-2007, 11:48 AM
when I was in school, I had a 69 Nova....
I think I got it for around $500, so you know what kind of shape it was in.
girlfriend got pregnant, got married, needed A/C in a car, traded up...you know the drill......
kick myself all the time for getting rid of it.

Steve, I feel for you and there have been a tremendous amount of great points brought up in this thread.

Good Luck

milkmania
10-09-2007, 11:49 AM
Buy the lease out and give her the car...take this into account when updating your will and explain it fully to her that she took her share early...then move on, life is way to short. Oh, and DON'T DO IT AGAIN!

great point... you've made a couple:)
cut your losses and move on.

I've essentially lost a son's relationship over this stuff

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 11:50 AM
Buy the lease out and give her the car...take this into account when updating your will and explain it fully to her that she took her share early...then move on, life is way to short. Oh, and DON'T DO IT AGAIN!


Closed end lease Mike. Not an option. Strangulation, now that's an option.

Funny thing is she is talking to her grandmother and saying I don't know why its such a big deal, its not like its a lot of money...

Unbelieveable....

milkmania
10-09-2007, 11:56 AM
Closed end lease Mike. Not an option. Strangulation, now that's an option.<---sarcasm;)

Funny thing is she is talking to her grandmother and saying I don't know why its such a big deal, its not like its a lot of money...

Unbelieveable....

I've got a real good buddy that's got a couple of pizza stores, his daughters have worked hard at the stores, he helps them with their car loans/insurance/etc...

well, the oldest daughter decides she wants to marry this guy she's been seeing for two weeks... (military criminal investigation history for being involved in a group rape)
So anyway, she get's married, moves to military base in Louisiana, Dad takes car, says to use your new husband's trashed out truck.

I commend him.

I've heard that people get real weird when it comes to money, the older I get the more I see it.

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 11:59 AM
I've got a real good buddy that's got a couple of pizza stores, his daughters have worked hard at the stores, he helps them with their car loans/insurance/etc...

well, the oldest daughter decides she wants to marry this guy she's been seeing for two weeks... (military criminal investigation history for being involved in a group rape)
So anyway, she get's married, moves to military base in Louisiana, Dad takes car, says to use your new husband's trashed out truck.

I commend him.

I've heard that people get real weird when it comes to money, the older I get the more I see it.


Who said I was being sarcastic?

MYMC
10-09-2007, 11:59 AM
Closed end lease Mike. Not an option. Strangulation, now that's an option.

Funny thing is she is talking to her grandmother and saying I don't know why its such a big deal, its not like its a lot of money...

Unbelieveable....
Call the leasing company and tell them you would like to know what it would cost to buy the car today. You should be able to look up the residual value and come close to the number. I know it is a CEL but I have bought several of these from people that needed out. Keep in mind Honda doesn’t really want this thing back! There may be penalties for not keeping it to term but you need to weigh those against the mileage she'll rack up. It's all math my friend and then some teeth grinding.

It isn't a lot of money because it is not her money. The days of you teaching this to her are gone...it is now time for banks, credit cards etc and they will teach a school of hard knocks. Trust me I lived almost the exact same story...you either learn or you don't but its beyond your control at this point. Be her father, but control the things you can control and let go of the things you can't.

(BTW, all this is way easy to say since it is you not me. However, take some relief in knowing I walked this path)

endl
10-09-2007, 12:02 PM
Wow.....thats probably about 3k in mileage right now that she is over.

I would move forward take the car. If you dont want to get right in the middle of her mother and her then send a repo guy. Let them take it back to the repo lot and she and her mother can deal with the repo lot. This will give you time to work out what your going to do witht he car between now and May. That car is costing you an extra 150-200 bucks every 1k of miles. Plus your lease payment.

This is tough but its a business decision now! Not personal!

wgwollet
10-09-2007, 12:03 PM
I know the story very well.........

1) First, never buy any kid a new car
2) Teenagers are in their own world
3) If you MUST buy a kid a car buy a old car and make them take care of it in their name.
4) Do what most of our parents did....make them buy their own car....
5) Baby Boomers are the most mis-gudied people on thinking they MUST pay for a kids car and college........

milkmania
10-09-2007, 12:07 PM
Who said I was being sarcastic?

just trying to make you smile......

no hard feelings?:o

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 12:08 PM
I hear you wollet but that Kia she was driving was costing me more in reaprs than the lease payment of rthe Honda which is $178.00 plus another $150 for insuring the damn thing....

ski_king
10-09-2007, 12:09 PM
..... The lease is up in May of '08 at which time she will have to turn it in........

What are her plans after May 08? I am sure she hasn't even thought that far ahead yet.
At least you have a out at that point.


other thoughts..
Maybe get her to pay at least a part of the lease amount?
Maybe have her pay the insurance?

milkmania
10-09-2007, 12:09 PM
Call the leasing company and tell them you would like to know what it would cost to buy the car today. You should be able to look up the residual value and come close to the number. I know it is a CEL but I have bought several of these from people that needed out. Keep in mind Honda doesn’t really want this thing back! There may be penalties for not keeping it to term but you need to weigh those against the mileage she'll rack up. It's all math my friend and then some teeth grinding.

It isn't a lot of money because it is not her money. The days of you teaching this to her are gone...it is now time for banks, credit cards etc and they will teach a school of hard knocks. Trust me I lived almost the exact same story...you either learn or you don't but its beyond your control at this point. Be her father, but control the things you can control and let go of the things you can't.

(BTW, all this is way easy to say since it is you not me. However, take some relief in knowing I walked this path)

said it before, I think you'll make a good dad:twocents:

3event
10-09-2007, 12:14 PM
Mari, thanks for sharing the story, it brings up a lot of good points. We have pre-teens in our house, all that stuff coming soon.

Presuming you have a key, I would go get it, then after the fact leave her a message. Advise her that since she can not afford this car, she should budget as any adult must do, determine what car she can afford, and go buy it. You can offer to help her screen vehicles, make suggestions etc. (that's a good Dad job).

Disable the car on your driveway so she can not re-repossess it, and figure out what to do with leasing company, per the many good above suggestions.

She and the Mom dont get it. It's YOUR CAR after all, and if she can not learn some responsibility with it, then she will have to learn by paying the whole shooting match on a replacement. If there's a lot of relationship harm you could suggest that you will give her a cash nominal amount toward a replacement if you help her pick the car out (but I am not sure that's a good message, is sort of a bad compromise).

MYMC
10-09-2007, 12:16 PM
said it before, I think you'll make a good dad:twocents:
Thank you...I hope so. My son is 12 and has his share of problems that he inherited from me (ADD/ADHD), but I try...hell we both try...only time will tell.

As we all know it is far easier to give advice than to take it...but I've walked a lot of miles in a lot of different shoes and still have lots of blisters to show for it.;)

Thanks again.

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 12:37 PM
Well I'm still stuck.

My gut tells me to go get the car but it will seperate us even further.
I think I should do it anyways.

jaysus
10-09-2007, 12:38 PM
It'll be repo'd after 3 months of non-payment normally. Problem is, it's in dad's name, and dad probably doesn't want a honda repo showing on his credit bureau.

wakolman
10-09-2007, 12:39 PM
It sounds like your daughter has poor financial discipline. While this experience is putting a strain on relations, you daughter will need to learn this lesson at some point in life if she ever wants to own a house, take a vacation, or retire.

Getting used to living on less is easier to do in the beginning (rather then when you have this lifestyle with payments that you can't get out from under). I have known many people who pizz away their salaries and complain about not having any money.

See if you can have a talk with her where you actually draw out on paper her expenses that she has each month (rent, school loans, gas, ins. CAR PAYMENT, groceries, retirement, emergency fund, entertainment, credit cards, etc). If you can get someone to actually tell you how much they need to live each month, it will almost always be less than what they actually spend in a month. People will be suprised by how much money they could be saving each month (when you subtract their expenses from their income).

As for the car, if feasible, it might be better to negotiate and buy it from the dealer instead of writing a big check for the extra milage and getting nothing in return.

Good luck, I feel for ya.

X2M
10-09-2007, 12:40 PM
While I agree with (in principle) with what others have said here IMHO the lesson is long since lost.
(Sorry if I piss you off here but you asked)...What daughter has learned is that dad will not follow through and that the last 6 months of threats/demands was hollow, so now it would appear that your 15th deadline is yet another in the string and if you do take it what changed, “why did dad enforce this one”? The message is way confusing...
1st Month: I'm serious I'll stop paying for it
2nd month: I'm very serious I'm going to stop paying for it
3rd month: I'm really very serious this time
4th month: I'm not even kidding this time, I want paid
5th month: I couldn’t be more serious this time
6th month: I'm so serious this time the word serious doesn’t cover it
7th month: Car disappears?????? HUH?

I would imagine that your daughter knows you can’t stop paying for it or it will ruin your credit...there are no upsides in this story I can see. No matter what you do you lose it is only a matter of degrees and the only lesson that is learned is that consequences have no predictability.

An old line goes..."Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". I don't know your relationship with your daughter but I would stop asking for it...it isn’t going to happen and I wouldn’t make any more hollow threats, make the payment until it must be turned in and then NEVER DO IT AGAIN.

Well said MYMC.

You are stuck in a darned if you do/darned if you dont place with this. I don't think taking the car from her at this point will teach her anything. It will only alienate her. Is the cost of the car, insurance, etc.... worth losing your daughter?

ski_king
10-09-2007, 12:42 PM
Well said MYMC.

You are stuck in a darned if you do/darned if you dont place with this. I don't think taking the car from her at this point will teach her anything. It will only alienate her. Is the cost of the car, insurance, etc.... worth losing your daughter?
Good point....... I think at this point, I would ride it out another 7 or 8 months until the lease expires.

But in the meantime, keep reminding her everyso often she needs to step up pay what is due.

Leroy
10-09-2007, 12:44 PM
I'm in this camp also. A daughter is too important to loose.....


Well said MYMC.

You are stuck in a darned if you do/darned if you dont place with this. I don't think taking the car from her at this point will teach her anything. It will only alienate her. Is the cost of the car, insurance, etc.... worth losing your daughter?

Ric
10-09-2007, 12:44 PM
steve, take the car. don't talk about it just do it. park it til may, the miles will be close to where they should be. You are the ahole in the deal til she is about 30! but you both learned a hard lesson.


ahole or not, I doubt you lose your daughter over a friggin honda lease... but stranger things have happened right?

Roonie's
10-09-2007, 12:44 PM
$328 a month should be fairly easy for her to come up with if she is living with her mother and not having to pay rent and has even a part time job. She could even babysit and make that money fairly easily. I would repo the car and sell it or whatever on your end. You may lose her in the short term but it is a valuable lesson she learns now from you rather than from creditors or something much bigger.

At that age I borrowed a sizable down payment (30k) on a house from parents and their names where on the title. I got two jobs and worked my a$$ off to make the mortgage each month. About four years later I made enough to pay back parents and transfered title into my name. The rest is history. It sometimes does work out.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 12:47 PM
Well I'm still stuck.

My gut tells me to go get the car but it will seperate us even further.
I think I should do it anyways.
Steve,
You thinking this for you or her? The truth is you should have picked it up 6 months ago, learning opportunity lost. The bank may take 3mos to repo per the examples above but the credit score died 89 days before that, and I'll take a prison record over a poor credit record!

The lesson is lost my friend, my parents tried the same stuff...trust me the message here is far too confusing to teach anything to anyone.

If you decide to go pick it up understand you are doing to make you feel better, and the price may be higher than a few months car payment.

Cut your losses and exposure and don't get fooled again!
Just my hard learned :twocents:
Good luck!

tex
10-09-2007, 12:50 PM
Wow-A lot of help really fast!!!!! I still say work a deal out with her but put it on paper and follow through with it if she does not live up to her end! If she balks at the deal up front-Take the car. At least you tried to work with her.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 01:01 PM
Operative conditioning:By applying logical conclusions to experimentation with rats, Burrhus Frederic Skinner provided psychologists with the possibility of reinforcement stimuli to attain set results and patterns of behavior, and indeed proved that those little behavioral foibles we consider normal behavior stem from conditioning of either a negative, positive or neutral response, and that rather than learning from our peers, the human learned conditioning through reaction to their own behavior.

UnlearningConditioning is inevitable and at times even appropriate. It helps us to function more effectively in the environment that we live in. We develop our own perspectives and interpretations of the world as we interact more and more with the environment and in small ways, we also influence the environment around us by our actions, words and beliefs. In fact, Skinner believed that we should just focus on conditioning people with proper stimuli and reward people when they develop desired behavioral patterns (Skinner, 1958). But just as we cannot plant new crops without first uprooting the old roots and giving the new seeds a chance, we need to unlearn before we can learn anew. In other words, while normal learning is facilitated by conditioning approaches, no new learning or breakthroughs take place with this approach. Unlearning is the key. How then do we unlearn our patterns and develop new patterns? How do we escape the box?

(hope this helps)

bcampbe7
10-09-2007, 01:02 PM
Wow-A lot of help really fast!!!!! I still say work a deal out with her but put it on paper and follow through with it if she does not live up to her end! If she balks at the deal up front-Take the car. At least you tried to work with her.

Agreed Tex...

As someone mentioned before. Make her do a written budget! Having all of her expenses versus income on a sheet of paper makes this a bit easier to explain to her.

I do have a hard time feeling sorry for a 21 year old that has a job yet lives at home and still has daddy paying for her car. Not making fun, but just putting this all into perspective.

In saying that, give her the car with no strings attached. Let it go, that lesson is far too gone. It is also not worth losing your daughter over. But also explain that this is it as far as getting money from Dad.

Diesel
10-09-2007, 01:04 PM
Steve,
You thinking this for you or her? The truth is you should have picked it up 6 months ago, learning opportunity lost. The bank may take 3mos to repo per the examples above but the credit score died 89 days before that, and I'll take a prison record over a poor credit record!

The lesson is lost my friend, my parents tried the same stuff...trust me the message here is far too confusing to teach anything to anyone.

If you decide to go pick it up understand you are doing to make you feel better, and the price may be higher than a few months car payment.

Cut your losses and exposure and don't get fooled again!
Just my hard learned :twocents:
Good luck!

Totally agree.....buy the car outright and give it to her......it's not worth the money and real life will teach her all the lessons she needs to learn without you as the bad guy. Just don't let it happen again.

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 01:05 PM
Mike,

The threat of taking the car did not surface until I said on September 1st that she had until the 15th to pay for the car or I would take it from her.

THe fifteenth has certainly come and passed but the threat of removal is less than one month old.

(Somehow I feel like I am defending myself all of a sudden)

betsy&david Harrison
10-09-2007, 01:10 PM
Now you have all this advice, you must make up your OWN mind on what to do. Let us know when and what you decide to do.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 01:10 PM
Mike,

The threat of taking the car did not surface until I said on September 1st that she had until the 15th to pay for the car or I would take it from her.

THe fifteenth has certainly come and passed but the threat of removal is less than one month old.

(Somehow I feel like I am defending myself all of a sudden)
Don't, I was only giving my opinion and with that and a $1.00 you can get yourself a coke.

My thoughts wouldn't change...the opportunity was back at the begining, you let the time elapse just as she did. Which would only fuel the "why is it such a big deal now" questions from her.

Not here to beat you up or make you defend your position.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 01:11 PM
Now you have all this advice, you must make up your OWN mind on what to do. Let us know when and what you decide to do.
Agreed keep us in the loop.

bigmac
10-09-2007, 01:23 PM
She's 21. It's too late to teach her responsibility. And in a split family, one of the key things she has learned is to manipulate her parents. If you change the rules now, at this stage of the game, in the name of teaching her responsibility, it will hurt your relationship. Besides, she's already seen you won't follow through on your threats. It's too late to do so now, unless you're willing to sacrifice your relationship for your ego.

It's a self-solving problem. The lease is up in May. Pay the lease, pay the insurance. Start reminding her now that she had better start figuring out what she's going to do for transportation come May.

Slinkyredfoot
10-09-2007, 01:26 PM
Get the car and put it up for sale. And that is a serious response from me. I am on your side. I am sick and tired of kids that are old enough mooching off their parents.

I agree with this completely, did the exact same thing with my daughter a few years ago and miraculously she all of a sudden came up with the money to make payments and pay for insurance......:confused:

bigmac
10-09-2007, 01:26 PM
Steve,
You thinking this for you or her? The truth is you should have picked it up 6 months ago, learning opportunity lost. The bank may take 3mos to repo per the examples above but the credit score died 89 days before that, and I'll take a prison record over a poor credit record!

The lesson is lost my friend, my parents tried the same stuff...trust me the message here is far too confusing to teach anything to anyone.

If you decide to go pick it up understand you are doing to make you feel better, and the price may be higher than a few months car payment.

Cut your losses and exposure and don't get fooled again!
Just my hard learned :twocents:
Good luck!

Key points, right here.

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 01:35 PM
So Bigmac and Mike you guys are saying because I was flexible with the excuses over the last six months I have lost credibility with her and thus will not teach her a thing by taking the car?

Ego aside I don't like the feeling of being taken advantage of.

lanier92prostar
10-09-2007, 01:40 PM
I agree with MYMC's points except I have one thing I would do immediately. I would drop her from my insurance and make her start paying at least that part, Take the car and tell her as soon as she has her own insurance she can have it back. Start small with the financial responsibility, help her find insurance and go from there. It does seem to me to be a lose/lose situation for you. Best of luck. I am glad I am not in your shoes now.

fintek9
10-09-2007, 01:44 PM
Now you have all this advice, you must make up your OWN mind on what to do. Let us know when and what you decide to do.Ditto, I told my 16 yr son (now 17) I wouldn't buy his car but would insurance, went OK till he lost his job, CAR sat in drive, Meantime he gets in trouble while driving, Had to sell car to pay fines. He gets to start over again! different senatorial with you but same out come, car goes away...She starts over again! You PAY TO PLAY in life!

RexDog1
10-09-2007, 01:59 PM
Steve, you are a dad, there is a fine line with your kids, you are a dad first and a friend 2nd

I would take the car in May, I also would take her out to dinner and just talk to her face to face about how you feel
(taken advantage of) and what you are going to do in May and why, keep the talk light don’t get heavy with her, that time has passed, and ask her it would be nice if she helped with the car tell May, she might surprise you and help, when kids understand that when parents are disappointed with them, they will surprise you………….

76S&S
10-09-2007, 02:00 PM
There are several good suggestions here and they are just that......suggestions. This is ultimately your decision and it is a big one. Let's be honest......in the grand scheme of things, it's really not that much money. I would want to be hard nosed about it but, I would not be willing to risk loosing a daughter over a lessen learned.

Christmas is right around the corner. Just buy the d__n thing, give it to her as a present and help her find some good insurance. Something about that feels right and wrong at the same time. I guess it's my ego that makes it feel wrong, she got me, but my heart feels good.

bigmac
10-09-2007, 02:05 PM
So Bigmac and Mike you guys are saying because I was flexible with the excuses over the last six months I have lost credibility with her and thus will not teach her a thing by taking the car?

Ego aside I don't like the feeling of being taken advantage of.

Yup. Just sayin'....

FWIW, I have a 22 year old daughter who lives and works in Minneapolis. She works hard, but doesn't make enough to have a safe car, safe auto insurance, and live in a safe apartment. I have been, more or less, where you are.

PendO
10-09-2007, 02:08 PM
Buy the lease out and give her the car...take this into account when updating your will and explain it fully to her that she took her share early...then move on, life is way to short. Oh, and DON'T DO IT AGAIN!

yup ............................... if you take the car away you are forever gonna hear about it ... give her the car and be done with the handout$.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 02:13 PM
So Bigmac and Mike you guys are saying because I was flexible with the excuses over the last six months I have lost credibility with her and thus will not teach her a thing by taking the car?

Ego aside I don't like the feeling of being taken advantage of.
Yes, that is what I am saying...look at it this way...if you are training a dog (simplistic yes I know but the rules are the same) and you decide to be flexible with the goal say house training for 6 weeks what does the dog learn? Nothing. Humans are animals, and by you doing nothing but being flexible she learned her excuses work with you.

Another point: You are not a bank, you are her father as such you cannot operate as a bank...most parents find it all but impossible to be as cold as a lending institution.

IMHO she was only able to take advantage of you because you let her...so who made the mistake?

betsy&david Harrison
10-09-2007, 02:13 PM
You guys are enablers!!! Steve, from a female point of view...GO GET THE CAR. She will be much better off in the long run. I have seen way too many kids that have been enabled and they are worthless adults now.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 02:15 PM
You guys are enablers!!! Steve, from a female point of view...GO GET THE CAR. She will be much better off in the long run. I have seen way too many kids that have been enabled and they are worthless adults now.
The enabling started a long time ago...do you really think this all happened in the last 6 months?

Go get it but be consistant...if you want the to take the tough love route do it, but you cannot have it both ways...confusing signals and messages is what brought you where you are today.

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 02:18 PM
I have made a decision to let her keep the damn thing but keep pestering her for the payment or at least a portion of it. (we'll see)

Thanks for all the insight. Funny thing is I don't remember riding the mommy and daddy train much past about 18 when I went out on my own. Not to say my parents never helped me because they did but they did not make 36 car and insurance payments for me, still grinds my ***...

( she's 22 I'm 41, you do the math ;) )

Thanks again.

Hey Mike - Can a bruther get a loan? :D

betsy&david Harrison
10-09-2007, 02:19 PM
It may have started a long time ago but it is not to late to start teaching responsibility. Obviously I have a very strong opinion on this matter...don't I?? :D

KnoxX2
10-09-2007, 02:32 PM
Maristar I know this story will not help you now, but I wanted to share this with hope you could share with your daughter. Maybe she will appreciate what you have done for her more after hearing this and seeing that you went all out to help her get through college.
I have started teaching my 8yr old the lesson of money early.
About 2 years ago my son said the he wanted a dirt bike. We had told him for over a year before this that if he wants something than he should save his money. Well he had! He had saved every bit of money he could. Everything from birthday money to money he would find in the couch. One day he came to me and asked if he could brake open his bank and go buy a Dirt Bike. I knew he would not have enough money, so I helped him open the bank and we counted the money. He had about $150.00 saved (not bad for a six year old. So I told him that we would go down to the motorcycle store and check them out. Can you say sticker shock……. I think his words were “I will never be able to save this much” We left there and I took him to the bank and we opened a savings account for him. Latter that day I was going through the sale adds and saw that TOY’S’R’US had electric Razor Dirt Bikes on sale for $149.00. I told my son that if this is what he wanted, I would take him to get it. We went to the bank and I pulled out $150 and we went and got it. He loved it! And took great care of it. The next year I took him back to the Honda dealer and we worked out a deal on a 50cc. The deal was he could buy the bike on a few conditions. He had to make the payments on his Dirt Bike. I told him it works like this:
Dad has a car and dad has to pay the bank for my car because dad had to barrow the money from the bank to buy the car. If dad dose not pay the bank for the car then the bank will take dads car away. I told my son that Mom is the bank and she will lone you the money for the new Honda and Dad is the Repo man. He will earn money each month 2 ways, Chores and Grades. He will get $25 for his Chores and $25 for his Grades. His Motorcycle payment will be $50 each month. So far so good (as good as a 8 yr old can)!
He has needed a few reminders, but has done well. I did this in hopes that I can teach him some responsibility when it comes to money and buying things. Remember that $150 dollars that he saved it is still sitting in the bank gaining interest. He only though it was his money. As far as him saving his money he is now saying he is saving for a car. Good thing we have a few years to go.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 02:34 PM
Hey Mike - Can a bruther get a loan? :D
Now what kind of lesson would you be learning from that? ;)

Truth is when something like this comes up I either document it all (rare) or just hand it over and say "this is not a loan but a gift" that way I have no expectation of repayment and don't lose a friend over it. If the money comes back...then it is a nice surprise.

Good luck with all this!

MYMC
10-09-2007, 02:36 PM
Maristar I know this story will not help you now, but I wanted to share this with hope you could share with your daughter. Maybe she will appreciate what you have done for her more after hearing this and seeing that you went all out to help her get through college.
I have started teaching my 8yr old the lesson of money early.
About 2 years ago my son said the he wanted a dirt bike. We had told him for over a year before this that if he wants something than he should save his money. Well he had! He had saved every bit of money he could. Everything from birthday money to money he would find in the couch. One day he came to me and asked if he could brake open his bank and go buy a Dirt Bike. I knew he would not have enough money, so I helped him open the bank and we counted the money. He had about $150.00 saved (not bad for a six year old. So I told him that we would go down to the motorcycle store and check them out. Can you say sticker shock……. I think his words were “I will never be able to save this much” We left there and I took him to the bank and we opened a savings account for him. Latter that day I was going through the sale adds and saw that TOY’S’R’US had electric Razor Dirt Bikes on sale for $149.00. I told my son that if this is what he wanted, I would take him to get it. We went to the bank and I pulled out $150 and we went and got it. He loved it! And took great care of it. The next year I took him back to the Honda dealer and we worked out a deal on a 50cc. The deal was he could buy the bike on a few conditions. He had to make the payments on his Dirt Bike. I told him it works like this:
Dad has a car and dad has to pay the bank for my car because dad had to barrow the money from the bank to buy the car. If dad dose not pay the bank for the car then the bank will take dads car away. I told my son that Mom is the bank and she will lone you the money for the new Honda and Dad is the Repo man. He will earn money each month 2 ways, Chores and Grades. He will get $25 for his Chores and $25 for his Grades. His Motorcycle payment will be $50 each month. So far so good (as good as a 8 yr old can)!
He has needed a few reminders, but has done well. I did this in hopes that I can teach him some responsibility when it comes to money and buying things. Remember that $150 dollars that he saved it is still sitting in the bank gaining interest. He only though it was his money. As far as him saving his money he is now saying he is saving for a car. Good thing we have a few years to go.
All operative conditioning...and a cool story.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 02:36 PM
It may have started a long time ago but it is not to late to start teaching responsibility. Obviously I have a very strong opinion on this matter...don't I?? :D
We both do...:)

bigmac
10-09-2007, 02:41 PM
I have made a decision to let her keep the damn thing but keep pestering her for the payment or at least a portion of it. (we'll see)

The bigger question you have to deal with is what are you going to do come May, when the lease is up? Buy the car for her from the leasing company? Lease her another one? Turn the car in and walk away? At that point, you have an opportunity to start fresh and implement a new set of rules. You'll have to come up with something that is fair. It may not meet her expectations, but you've already seen that her expectations are unreasonable. IMHO, I could see buying out the lease and giving her the car, but maintenance, repairs, insurance, licensing are on her.

ski_king
10-09-2007, 03:00 PM
This is easy for us to give Steve all these suggestions when she isn't our kid.

I still say, ride out the lease, turn it in, then she is on her own for a car.

Harvey
10-09-2007, 03:05 PM
Maristar I know this story will not help you now, but I wanted to share this with hope you could share with your daughter. Maybe she will appreciate what you have done for her more after hearing this and seeing that you went all out to help her get through college.
I have started teaching my 8yr old the lesson of money early.
About 2 years ago my son said the he wanted a dirt bike. We had told him for over a year before this that if he wants something than he should save his money. Well he had! He had saved every bit of money he could. Everything from birthday money to money he would find in the couch. One day he came to me and asked if he could brake open his bank and go buy a Dirt Bike. I knew he would not have enough money, so I helped him open the bank and we counted the money. He had about $150.00 saved (not bad for a six year old. So I told him that we would go down to the motorcycle store and check them out. Can you say sticker shock……. I think his words were “I will never be able to save this much” We left there and I took him to the bank and we opened a savings account for him. Latter that day I was going through the sale adds and saw that TOY’S’R’US had electric Razor Dirt Bikes on sale for $149.00. I told my son that if this is what he wanted, I would take him to get it. We went to the bank and I pulled out $150 and we went and got it. He loved it! And took great care of it. The next year I took him back to the Honda dealer and we worked out a deal on a 50cc. The deal was he could buy the bike on a few conditions. He had to make the payments on his Dirt Bike. I told him it works like this:
Dad has a car and dad has to pay the bank for my car because dad had to barrow the money from the bank to buy the car. If dad dose not pay the bank for the car then the bank will take dads car away. I told my son that Mom is the bank and she will lone you the money for the new Honda and Dad is the Repo man. He will earn money each month 2 ways, Chores and Grades. He will get $25 for his Chores and $25 for his Grades. His Motorcycle payment will be $50 each month. So far so good (as good as a 8 yr old can)!
He has needed a few reminders, but has done well. I did this in hopes that I can teach him some responsibility when it comes to money and buying things. Remember that $150 dollars that he saved it is still sitting in the bank gaining interest. He only though it was his money. As far as him saving his money he is now saying he is saving for a car. Good thing we have a few years to go.

As someone who works in sub prime auto finance you are taking away a potential customer! :D I am kidding. This a great way to teach a child about the value of money while simultaneously teaching them about credit. 8 might be a little too young for that lesson but then again it might not be. I know I didn't learn it until about 16 when my father taught it to me.

Mikey
10-09-2007, 03:21 PM
I have made a decision to let her keep the damn thing but keep pestering her for the payment or at least a portion of it. (we'll see)

Thanks for all the insight. Funny thing is I don't remember riding the mommy and daddy train much past about 18 when I went out on my own. Not to say my parents never helped me because they did but they did not make 36 car and insurance payments for me, still grinds my ***...

( she's 22 I'm 41, you do the math ;) )

Thanks again.



I think you made the right choice.

I know I am young and dont have as much parenting experience as most people here but I like to think I know what I am talking about. :) Unless that car payment is hurting YOU financially it is not worth losing a relationship with your daughter over. Is it wrong that she is taking advantage of you? Yes. Does she need to learn to be financially responsible? Yes. Is taking the car from her and leaving her without a car to get to the job that she does have the right thing to do? I personaly dont think so. I just dont see how anything good could come out of taking the car back. Sure you will be out thousands of dollars but, you will still have a relationship with her and I guarantee that she will remember who helped her out when she was young and just starting out in her adult life. Again, I think you made the right choice.

Some have said its too late to teach her. I dont think that it is too late for her to be taught financial responsibility. She is still very young and has plenty of time. Take me for example, in high school and a year or so after you could say I had everything handed to me :o but when I got out on my own and didnt have that security any more I had no choice but to be responsible. I now am 25 and own a nice house, 3 nice vehicles, a Harley, and a Mastercraft. And I am not struggling a bit. And my credit score is about as high as you can get for my age, income, etc. I dont make a whole lot of money but I learned how to manage my money correctly to be able to pay the bills and not have to rely on anyone for help. Im not trying to "brag", im just giving one example of how someone who was "spoiled" as a young adult and NOT taught how to be financially responsible can learn it on their own and become successful at it.

OK, Im done. :D

Maristar210
10-09-2007, 03:38 PM
The bigger question you have to deal with is what are you going to do come May, when the lease is up? Buy the car for her from the leasing company? Lease her another one? Turn the car in and walk away? At that point, you have an opportunity to start fresh and implement a new set of rules. You'll have to come up with something that is fair. It may not meet her expectations, but you've already seen that her expectations are unreasonable. IMHO, I could see buying out the lease and giving her the car, but maintenance, repairs, insurance, licensing are on her.

Howard this is already been discussed. I told her she has until then to figure it out. I also told her I will not be paying for or co-signing any loan or lease on a new vehicle. For me this is carved in stone. I am only going to continue to pay for the car because its my credit score at risk. Once my obligation is over I will pay for the over mileage and turn in the vehicle. After that it is solely up to her how she provides transportation for herself. She can ride a bike for all I care. Let's revive this thread in 8 months just to make sure. :mad:

milkmania
10-09-2007, 03:39 PM
print these two pages, take her to dinner and hand them to her....
then explain the turmoil you've been dealing with.

MYMC
10-09-2007, 03:47 PM
print these two pages, take her to dinner and hand them to her....
then explain the turmoil you've been dealing with.
Great idea!

jbfootin
10-09-2007, 04:04 PM
Wow...this has been one of the best threads in a while. Thought provoking with ALOT of good,... no, great advice. It is rare that you see a thread grow quicker than the "swimsuit" or "one word" thread and offer so much help.

I agree with MYMC in that the lesson is lost and the car is not worth losing a daughter. I would make sure that she plans her future transportation before next spring and possibly trading in or buying the honda, due to miles, sooner rather than later. Even though this is a closed end lease, they will give you a trade in credit on a new car, if you talk fast enough. They just want you to buy something.

Help her pick a new car or negotiate this one and you get out of the lease and look like the good guy...:)

I also like the idea of printing out this thread and giving it to her to show the pain in the arse she is being...:o

sand2snow22
10-09-2007, 04:05 PM
Great idea!

I'll third that idea, sometimes for me, I can communicate and take the emotion out of these things in writing. Maybe get rid of the s lut Mom comment, tho!!

A.I. Rider
10-09-2007, 04:29 PM
I second the comment of a great thread. Although I am no parent and just got married at 26, I feel that I have learned so much just from hearing all of the angles that each of you put forth. Thanks. Although I very much look forward to being a dad ONE DAY, these kinds of situations absolutely terrify me.

As far as my young opinion goes, I would let her keep the car(although that was not my original thought) and have a sit down with her once you hand it off upon the completion of the lease or whichever route of fulfillment you choose. Let her know how this has challenged you, and leave her with the one thing she needs to learn from this....That it will never happen again.

Granite_33
10-09-2007, 04:54 PM
Car is in dads name and dads thinking of going to get car from daughter who lives with sl_ut mother.


Therein lies the crux.
(my opinion)
Sl_t mother thinks that A-hole father has plenty of money and is telling beloved daughter that you can afford to pay for it. Retribution of sorts.

IMHO. This is may be more driven by the mother than the daughter.

Coming from a family of divorced parents, this happens more than anyone wants to believe.

I would bet that Sl_t mother is pushing your daughters buttons, and is not the least bit concerned about her than she is at getting at you.

Although it may be less painful to have a lawn jart land on your head, is it worth it to speak with the sl_t mother to discuss this???

I understand that this issue is between you and your daughter, but letting a child know that both parents agree on something does wonders for a childs disposition and thoughts on particular subjects. Its one thing that my wife and I agree on. You need a united front in dealing with a child

If that doesn't work, then I will tell you that I am a firm, firm believer in 2 things:
#1 What goes around, comes around. (it may take time, but it happens)
#2 The best school is the school of hard knocks. Nothing like a slap in the face by "mother life" to get the message through.

If life were fair, there would be a way to make the car payments to keep your credit up and have her pay for insurance. (risky driving around uninsured these days:) )

Monte
10-09-2007, 05:11 PM
Steve.. I'm going to add something that is not going to help your situation. Read the small print in your lease. If I remember correctly from my car selling days you pay 11cents/ mile on the front end and 23cents/ mile on the back end. So if the car is 18k over in mileage.. you will have to write a check for $4140 when you turn it in.. Just my opinion you may want to ask her if she can afford that.. She may HAVE to park the car..

88 PS190
10-09-2007, 05:22 PM
I would have made her write out checks dated the first of the month for X$ a month. I would deposit those into my account no matter what, and she would bounce them if she wasn't responsible enough. Her problem.

KnoxX2
10-09-2007, 05:37 PM
I would have made her write out checks dated the first of the month for X$ a month. I would deposit those into my account no matter what, and she would bounce them if she wasn't responsible enough. Her problem.

That is why banks have EFT!

jbfootin
10-09-2007, 05:49 PM
I'll third that idea, sometimes for me, I can communicate and take the emotion out of these things in writing. Maybe get rid of the s lut Mom comment, tho!!
Yeah...that might bite ya in the butt if left in:o

Doug G
10-10-2007, 02:06 AM
Obviously alot of great feedback and you have reached a decision. I agree that as a life lesson in finances the opportunity has come and gone. I also agree you must take care of your own credit and balance the tough personal situation with the $$ side. However as a life lesson in relationships the opportunity still exists.

IMHO at this age yelling / punishing is ineffective, communicating the disappointment when he makes a bad choice is hugely effective, and more honest. Although I am blessed with a good marriage and a great kid and that makes it much easier.

My .02: Seize the opportunity that does exist and talk about the relationship side of it, how you feel taken advantage of and what your side has been like. I don't know your daughter but is she really taking advantage of you or is that emotion from the overall situation that is creeping in? If she is taking advantage of you, stop enabling. If not, what is she dealing with on her side? Either way, hopefully she can learn something from this perspective. Tell her the truth, you aren't out to screw her (I think) but it is time for her to be responsible and in May the ride is over, literally.

My son is 16 and we are dealing with the car thing now. We have a great relationship. He has a job, pays his own cell bill, buys his own toys etc... We haven't decided yet how much of his insurance he will pay but it won't be a free ride. There is either a beater car or Dad's 110,000 mile Durango in his future and he knows it. Although at this point I'll probably spring for the car (this thread has me questioning that now too). Even though most of his friends are getting new / newer cars given to them he is cool with it and understands.

Thanks for bringing it up. I got some good feedback for me to.

6ballsisall
10-10-2007, 08:04 AM
Take the car immediately. You've given her chances and asked for her to step up to the plate. Time to show her you mean business. Pick up the car and park it in your garage until she starts paying.

Farmer Ted
10-10-2007, 08:18 AM
Steve, I realie you've made your decision but I would seriously consider putting your daughter through FPU

http://www.daveramsey.com/shop/Financial_Peace_University_Mem_P211C36.cfm?UserID= 19791010&jsessionid=3c30863ea69a673b5c54

Dude can't be all that bad, he owns a MasterCraft and refers to it on air as, "the best ski boat money can buy"

JimN
10-10-2007, 11:02 AM
I didn't read the whole thread but there are a few things that get my attention.

1) You and your ex still have a lot of bad feelings.
2) Your daughter lives with your ex?
3) Your daughter knows that you and your ex don't come close to getting along and that has poisoned her view of you.
4) Your ex may have been actively involved in your daughter's decision to not repay, as in, "he has money, screw him!".
5) Your daughter clearly has no idea how much your divorce cost you. If she was told in general terms (doesn't need to know exactly how much), maybe she would see that this expense is a burden on you, like "I could have paid cash for another house for what it cost me". If you're making the mortgage payments on their house, tell her that. She knows how much she makes, ask her how much she thinks you paid for them to live every month after your divorce.

You have warned her that you'll take the car back. If she comes you your house, take it then (or get the number from the key and have a duplicate made). You could remove the battery when she's "busy". Your name is on the line and she doesn't care that your credit rating is, too. She needs to learn how this stuff works. She needs to know that she went over the mileage limit and it's going to cost a lot more. She needs to know that you won't ever buy another car, or anything else that's expensive, for her.

I think Granite made some good points about you and the ex trying to agree on something, other than the fact that you can't stand each other- I doubt that this has happened in a long time.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-10-2007, 11:06 AM
Slap her mom for me.
Oooo!!! :toast: :popcorn:

tex
10-10-2007, 11:06 AM
Remember-It's real easy to give out hard line advice when you are not tied to the situation. Remain calm and be the real adult.

h2oskiluvr
10-13-2007, 03:28 AM
Wow, great thread. My children are too young for me to worry about this kind of thing yet but I would say it is very interesting to read.

In my opinion this issue is more about your daughter feeling a sense of entitlement or possibly feeling you didn't contribute enough financially to her upbringing (the ex feeding her this information repeatedly over many years no doubt) as opposed to her be careless with money. The "it isn't a lot of money" comment makes me think this is the case. I may be off base but this just sounds like it is her way of making you pay or trying to get back at you for "what you did to mom".

I don't know why her driving over the lease mileage by such a large amount bothers me so much but it just burns me up to think about my kid doing that. Wow, I pray I am never in that situation. I am not sure how well I would handle it.

Good luck to you.

Mag_Red
10-13-2007, 09:00 AM
Cars and daughters.............man do I know this senario! :) My little princess is now in her first year of college. I told her I will pay her tuition as long as she maintains decent grades ( C and above ) and doesn't drop a bunch of classes to do so. I also told her I was not paying for her to live on, or near campus. Well she gets a student loan, to live near the university, and guess what???? She calls crying, wanting to come home because she hates the girl they made her room with. I told her, you made the decision........you are more than welcome to come home, but my suggestion is go to the housing administrator and see if you can get another room mate. So far she is still living there. Her next decision was to go to Verizon for her cell phone, after being on my carrier as a second phone.:rolleyes: I told her not to do it....but they have cooler phones, better plans, and that is whet she did. Well she comes to me and ask if she could come back with my carrier on a family plan, because it is costing her $90/ month and she wants to save money. Now I can certainly afford the $150 to get her out of her plan, but I told her. " You made the decision to change to Verizon, when you have the $150 to get out of your plan, I will be more than happy to add you to mine!" " My suggestion, is to find a way to get the extra money, ie work a few more hours, don't go to this concert etc " She is obviously disappointed with my decision, but she now knows that you have to live by the choices you make.......some times you make bad choices...........and sometimes you make good ones.:D By the way Steve.........she is still talking to me;)

Leroy
10-13-2007, 10:31 PM
Where is she going Mag?

spanielman50
10-13-2007, 10:49 PM
Sounds Like There's More Baggage Than Your Saying,,,,,,,,you Calling Your Ex A S-----says Your Daughter Is In The Middle Of Lotza Hatred She Needs Her Dads Love ,,,,, That's Worth A Million Cars,,,, Save The Responsibilty Lessons When The War Is Over With The Ex,,,,,,,,there's Lotza Lease's Out There,,but Father Daughter Relationship -priceless,loose That And You'll Regret For Ever

phecksel
10-15-2007, 12:55 PM
I'm on the hold her accountable side.

Mom is going through the EXACT same drama with my nephew. Grandma got custody years ago, and against my advice, got him a car to use at college. Now he's dropped out of school, and she's paying on the lease. She's now given him an ultimatium, but don't expect he'll be held accountable.

If I learned anything from SWMBO, it's state the conditions, and hold to those conditions. Right now the oldest is driving the Focus free of charge. It is still my car and it's clear to her that it is my car and she will lose access for any D's or E's, or more then 2 C's. She's involved in sports and marching band, and as long as she stays involved with both of those, I'll even put enough gas in the car to get back and forth to school.

wakolman
10-15-2007, 01:17 PM
Steve, I realie you've made your decision but I would seriously consider putting your daughter through FPU

[URL="http://www.daveramsey.com


I also have heard good things about this course.

Leroy
10-15-2007, 01:25 PM
My company is paying for me to go through a three hour Dave Ramsey seminar here in Indy Nov 15th. I like his radio show.

Leah
10-15-2007, 02:21 PM
Speaking from the point of a once 19 Y.O daughter myself, and one that had Daddy around the neck....I never grew up until I was on my own...financially AND emotionally. If you think that she's not ready to emotionally handle all the responsibilities that go along with being financially responsible...then no she's not ready to handle that sort of debt, especially if she's not done it before. That being said, a 21 year old has a definite need to wake up and learn that she is not going to be spoon fed for the rest of her life, sounds like she needs a good ole' taste of the "What would you do if I wasn't here?" speech.....BTW...I bought my own POS car at 17 and drove that Mazda until I was 24 and the car had over 300,000 miles on it!:cool:

Thrall
10-15-2007, 03:00 PM
Go get the car from her, even if it sits in your driveway unused until the lease is up. I watched my parents, then just my mom (after dad passed away), partially support my sister until she was 31 years old. Well, she's 32 now, mom is broke, spent most of her meager retirement on my worthless sister (and her deadbeat boyfriend), and I'll probably be helping out my mom sooner than later, financially.
Sis has now turned to me for "help". After turning down job opportunities w/ the company I'm working for, making at least triple the $ of what they're collectively used to making. (I tried to hook her and her bf up w/ good jobs and they refused. He won't work construction because sitting on the couch smoking dope is an easier way to make a living!)
I've paid my own car purchase, repairs, insurance, everything, since 16 y/o. Wasn't that hard. If I wanted a car, I needed to spend my money wisely.

mitch
10-15-2007, 03:32 PM
Good point....... I think at this point, I would ride it out another 7 or 8 months until the lease expires.

But in the meantime, keep reminding her everyso often she needs to step up pay what is due.


Bingo! I would not take the car either.......She'll be getting married at some point and of course you'll be paying less than you would have. -->Think Knights of Columbus~Elks for the reception ;) My belief is taking it may damage the relationship and it ain't worth it. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. Good luck!! Our 3 kids paid for their own cars and we pay 1/2 for insurance/reg as long as they're in school. No $$ no car

jwchapman
10-15-2007, 03:51 PM
It is always difficult dealing with our children. While not always appropriate, I have found these two videos helpful for getting my kid's attention and thought I would share.

http://consumerist.com/consumer/clips/snl-skit-dont-buy-stuff-you-cant-afford-252491.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJYQnf2KJ4c

On this specific case - if we are taking votes - I would vote for just buying the car and giving it to her - but for some (maybe) different reasons. Originally I was thinking just go get the car - but I now think any learning opportunities from just doing that are long gone, as this has been going on for so long. Giving her the car, if you can afford it, will also add a little stability, one time, as she gets started in life. I would add a few non-negotiable conditions to be completed before delivery of the car:

1 - The car will be in her name ONLY - she is an adult and deserves all rights and responsibilities as such
2 - A check will need to be delivered from the daughter for 6 months insurance - this protects both her and the public
3 - She will be required to complete Dave Ramsey's course, or an equivalent, or the car will be sent back - I would buy and set a date for completion - no more than 30 days - and no car to her before then.

This is just my opinion - it and a couple of dollars might buy a cup of coffee.

On an editorial note - we do a terrible job as a society in preparing our children for the "real" financial world. A class like Dave Ramsey's should be in every school - though as parents we are ultimately responsible and have to add this to the list of things our kids must know ourselves. This is truly the land on Opportunity (not Guarantee) and money (and what it can buy) should be a blessing, not a curse.

Also - I try to remember that I am not raising children - I am raising adults. At 18 they should be able to manage their own affairs responsibly and make (reasonably) good decisions - while knowing they will always be part of the family.

Good luck to all of us.

Mag_Red
10-15-2007, 06:08 PM
Where is she going Mag?
University of Cincinnati for Nursing

Chas
10-16-2007, 03:23 PM
My gut tells me to go get the car but it will seperate us even further.
I think I should do it anyways.
To me, that is the crux of the situation. I have counseled many families through this type of thing, and the bottom line seems to come to this question: is it worth a few hundred a month to have your daughter be your friend? Because that is the exact price you will put on the relationship if you take the car back. You will not teach her anything constructive at this point, sorry to say.

No, it isn't fair, and yes, she has already made the same choice. But keep in mind that from her perspective, you have the money, and if you take the car you are just plain being mean.

Of course, after the lease is up and the car is gone, (and you paid the extra mileage) you get the option of never repeating this again.

But you will have your daughter.

YMMV...

Leroy
10-16-2007, 08:56 PM
Excellent! We went on the tour of that campus and it is very nice!

University of Cincinnati for Nursing

TX.X-30 fan
10-16-2007, 10:27 PM
This thread must have hit a nerve out here on TT. I have 2 young boys and I don't know about 210 but I have gained a worth of information from reading all the posts. There is not much to add here as I was a little spoiled as a younger man and had to learn much of what has been stated here the hard way. I do disagree with some who say it is too late though. I was very stretched out some years ago by outstanding invoices and had to go sit alone with my father and ask for money. I was in my 30's and dad still had a lesson for me. I was given the loan but at the same time fairly well dressed down about some of the excesses of my life style.

It was one of the hardest things I had ever done, invoice got paid I returned the money with interest and have NEVER considered doing that again. I was taught a lesson by my 68 year old father I should have already learned. I was given that lesson before, it was not my fathers fault I was in the situation I was. I now see that lesson as a gift my father gave me long after he had any obligation to do so.

210 She will learn with your help, keep after her in a positive way.

Good luck my friend.

fskof
10-16-2007, 11:47 PM
Is it possible that the mother is filling her head with advise "to let dad pay for it" to get even with you?

Ric
10-17-2007, 09:50 AM
Is it possible that the mother is filling her head with advise "to let dad pay for it" to get even with you? ya think ?

Maristar210
10-17-2007, 09:58 AM
Is it possible that the mother is filling her head with advise "to let dad pay for it" to get even with you?


There is no question. I am very nice to her mother for the good of our daughter but she's a budwieser drinking, cigarette smoking, hillbilly tattooed betoch who doesn't feel right unless she's listening to her Journey albums feeling sorry for herself about the passing of our son, she acts like it happened yesterday. (19 years)

On a more positive note: I got a check in the mail yesterday for one months car payment so things are looking up :D

jbfootin
10-17-2007, 10:22 AM
On a more positive note: I got a check in the mail yesterday for one months car payment so things are looking up :D
That is great news! It is worth a call to tell her that you are proud of her for stepping up to being an adult and becoming less dependent. The old positive reinforcement:rolleyes:

TX.X-30 fan
10-17-2007, 03:31 PM
[QUOTE=Maristar210][SIZE="4"]Please save the sarcasm in this thread if you don't mind. Thank you.





The only other TTer who would be more hypocritical than you writing that would be Ric. :mad: I can't believe your computer didnt self destruct.


:D :D

Maristar210
02-09-2008, 11:30 PM
Guess who is making her own car payments:cool:

sand2snow22
02-10-2008, 12:47 AM
Your ex? 8p

suedv
02-10-2008, 02:49 AM
That's great. She must have learned something from Dad.

TMCNo1
02-10-2008, 09:01 AM
:rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: After the post I read yesterday you made to me, well Steve,..................................... I have too much respect for you!
Have a nice day!

Maristar210
02-10-2008, 05:10 PM
Thanks Sue.

ShamrockIV
02-10-2008, 05:13 PM
repo YOUR car and make her walk!!!!
life's lessons are hard but the younger that you learn them the better!!

Heck i am 34 years old and drive a $2000 car back and forth to work!!
(saves gas and it is paid for!!!!)

Maristar210
02-10-2008, 05:22 PM
repo YOUR car and make her walk!!!!
life's lessons are hard but the younger that you learn them the better!!

Heck i am 34 years old and drive a $2000 car back and forth to work!!
(saves gas and it is paid for!!!!)

I hear you but she is paying for it now. I am done helping her and she knows it.

jbfootin
02-11-2008, 12:24 PM
Guess who is making her own car payments:cool:
That is good news and a great step for her moving to adulthood! I hope every thing is still cool between the two of you also!

Maristar210
04-24-2008, 03:35 PM
Well blow me down !!!!


The car and insurance are out of my hands.

The kid bought it herself and SHE is paying for it.

I just freed up about 4k per year :woohoo: :dance: :woohoo: :dance:

flipper
04-24-2008, 03:44 PM
Congrats.....glad to hear it all worked out good for you.

lanier92prostar
04-24-2008, 04:12 PM
Glad it worked out. A 4K raise this year!

Maristar210
04-24-2008, 04:57 PM
Thanks fellas. Could not have come at a better time... :cool:

atlfootr
04-24-2008, 07:11 PM
Get the car and put it up for sale. She's EXACTLY CORRECT!

What ya should of done months ago was repo it and sell it.
As soon as she saw the reality of it start to set in, it all may of clicked inside her head or not .:rolleyes:

Glad your out of the family drama, this little story could teach us all a lesson or too.

suedv
04-25-2008, 02:02 PM
Hey Steve, that's really great. Life is easier for you and it sounds like she's learning some lessons about money, leases, and loans that will probably help her all though life. I'm sure it helps the budget and relationships for both of you.

Now, want to come over and help me get my college students all fired up about taking care of their loans???????????? ;) :D

mcdoon
04-25-2008, 03:51 PM
I'm sure you've got some "lessons learned" that I need to hear about Sue. Mine are all getting ready to head into their final two years at college where the price of poker will be triple what it is now. :(

Cloaked
04-25-2008, 08:55 PM
Get the car and put it up for sale. And that is a serious response from me. I am on your side. I am sick and tired of kids that are old enough mooching off their parents.
:werd:

.........

Chief
04-25-2008, 09:50 PM
Daddy's girls always get there way. It's hard to be a a-hole when you love them so much. I get the daily kicking but keep giving. But hey what the hell one day she will figure out what life is all about. Until then daddy foots' the bill.

Good luck bro

Didn't read all the threads but hey it all worked out, now you need to buy that new whatever she wants.